CYC Photon, X1 Stealth, X1 Pro Mid-drive E-Bike Motor Comparison
Vložit
- čas přidán 27. 01. 2023
- We share a comparison of the new CYC mid-drive eBike motor kits including the X1 Pro and X1 Stealth Gen 3 as well as the just released Photon E-Bike motor @R-eCycle. The video includes a summary of the parts and options for each motor and considerations for how to choose between the kits.
R-eCycle.com offers the latest electric motors, batteries, to the DIY community. R-eCycle Bike Co provides conversion services and builds bikes for customers that want a complete bike. R-eCycle Bike Co is an authorized CYC Motor dealer, located in the San Francisco North Bay Area and serves the Northern California region. We can also ship bikes by request.
If you have any questions about an eBike project, don't hesitate to reach out to us at R-eCycle.com. - Auta a dopravní prostředky
Thank you for the video. Great and detailed comprehensive comparison of CYC motors.
Thanks @ElieDib1962 , glad you found it helpful!
This is the best video out there on these motors. It can get so confusing at order time with all the options. Thank you so much for taking the time and helping clear up some questions I had.
Thanks very much @mrsexytime9095, appreciate the support. You can reach us at ride@r-ecycle.com if you need any advice your build.
Great info. Thanks! The way and detail of your answers is really, really impressive!
Thanks @cilami , great to hear it was helpful!
Appreciate this content found it greatly helpful in making a decision.
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for the feedback.
Thank you for deep content
I stay with my big nasty Bafang.
Hugs from Germany 😅
Thank you from California ;)
The early Bafang's are fine motors, not so nasty - lol. The lastest ones are too restrictive in terms of equipment and adjustability IMO. We sell the BBS02 and HD for that reason. They are little heavy but overbuilt and reliable. The biggest downside is how manual the controls are for adjusting power on the fly and the stepped nature of a rotation based PAS.
Cheers!
Thank you 🙏
Thank you
I am missing the field test video of the Stealth. Anytime soon?
Hey Randy, I just found this video. Great job! I just ordered my battery. I think I might want to investigate lighting too. Will I need cable extensions for display, throttle and speed sensors as the photon system I have ordered is going on a Sunseeker Fat Tad CXS. You've got my info, let me know at your convenience. I'll send you pics and a video when it's all together. Can't wait to ride it in the Ocala National Forest.🤣
Thanks! Send me an email with measurements for the cables you need and we can put an order together for you.
Looking for an opinion as to which model to go with I want it to be robust and I am putting it on a felt comp 50 will be doing mostly single track riding. With about 8-13 miles of road to get to the trail. Also, any battery and controller suggestions would help as well frame is XL and I am a bigger rider at 241lbs before gear. I am leaning toward the stealth. I don’t mind the noise or increased price but figured the pro would probably be overkill in my application and just add weight.
Hey Tim, thanks for the note. Between the Stealth and the Pro, given your use case, I'd agree you'll probably be perfectly happy with the Stealth. It's a bit lighter, well suited to single track, makes a little less noise and has good torque for climbing most hills. If you want something a little overbuilt then the Pro is worth considering. The larger motor will mean it won't work as hard, allowing it to run cooler. It's likely to be a little more efficient in terms of battery drain. It does make more noise but this is relative to the amount the motor is assisting which varies depending on load and how hard you're peddling. In terms of Battery packs, it usually comes down to what will fit on the bike and if you ever plan to go more than 20 miles on a ride. A 52V 13Ah pack can last 20-40 miles depending on terrain and how much assistance the motor is providing. A larger pack will add weight but give you more flexibility on range. The BMS will determine the rate power can be drawn from the battery. 30A will be sufficient for the Stealth under most circumstances. 40A for the Pro if limited to 2000W or 50A if you want to use the throttle and pull something close to max wattage. You can limit power with the App so a 30A pack, limited to 1500W, will work fine with the Pro and limit power consumption.
I like the Photon, but wonder about the mount loosening under load. I installed a torque arm to prevent my Bafang BBS-02 from twisting on an aluminum BB.
@bjnslc I've don't the same with the Stealth and the Pro. The stock bracket requires the motor to be clamped against the frame. Sometimes that's undesirable or just doesn't work. There's also not much to work with using the stock bracket - it's light weight but the retaining screws are not a very elegant solution. There are fewer mounting points on the Photon to attach to and they are smaller and closer to the BB (providing less leverage) but similar to the BBS02. It won't require much to give it more a lot more stability. We'll need more time with the motor to determine if additional attachments are necessary to keep it from moving around.
Locktite
@ferguson8143 the X1 Stealth and Pro aren't mounted completely rigidly to the BB. The mounts are stiff laterally and radially but the motor can rotate around the bottom bracket so they require a camp to be held in place. The Photon has a left side bracket more like the Bafang mount but still has the potential to rotate around the BB. Like the Bafang, you can add spacers behind the bracket to increase tension to keep the motor from rotating.
Thank you for the amazing video. Finally, I see a comprehensive comparison of CYC motors.
What size of BB and adapters do I need to convert my Trek FX1 disc?
Should I get the Photon or X1 pro? The defense is only 250$ with shipping
Thanks very much @missin990 ! The Trek spec sheet isn't as complete/explicit as I'd like but it looks like the FX1 has a 68mm (BSA) bottom bracket which will work with the most common size for CYC Photons and X1s - which is 68/73/83mm. This configuration comes with 3 spacers (3mm, 5mm & 7mm). In your case you would use all 3. Which motor to buy depends on a lot of things (I should make a video about this lol). Mainly how you want to use the bike (eMTB, commuting, climbing, top speed, quiet/lightweight) and which battery you want (range/size, power output) and how it will fit. Generally speaking, the Photon will be better if you want the bike to be as light and quiet as possible and you're not concerned about maximum power. It can also be a good choice if you need room on the downtube for the battery. If you want to go on long steep climbs or operate the bike like a scooter using the throttle sometimes then the X1 Pro would be a better choice. The Stealth fits somewhere in the middle so it's a good compromise with decent power and enough torque to make most hill climbs easy.
@@R-eCycle
I care a lot about future proofing (to serve whatever need I have in the future), compatibility with future bikes, reliability and longevity.
I do want to use it for fun and to go out as a scooter and I don’t care much about the weight. Paying 15-20% to get X1 Pro is worth it. My only concern is the noise!
@missin990 I would recommend the X1 Pro for anyone that wants to routinely use the throttle alone (no pedaling). The motor is significantly larger which means it will operate more efficiently, dissipate heat and handle the load better. You'll also want to spec a battery pack with a BMS with higher discharge rate (constant 40A or >) if you want to operate the motor at 2-3kW output. That said, there's no question X1 Pro is louder. As I mentioned in the video, I've had some customers find it perfectly acceptable and others, not so much. Watch this space for more info on this topic!
For a full suspension 10sp rear cassette say 11-46t would you recommend the 52/32t chainring option for a stealth? Looking for really just a single track trail bike. Not a top speed racer.
Hey @babyyak3002, thanks for your question. My own bike is a full suspension Spot Rollik that I use for trail riding. I recently changed the setup but I used 52/32T chainrings to maximize torque for climbing. That bike has a 12 speed derailleur with has even lower cogs than your 10 speed. If you're mostly riding technical trail, I think you'll find that setup works really well.
What is the best chain ring combo for climbing? Also is there a way to switch to single speed? I have problems breaking derailleurs with the BBSHD.
Hi @nvrfollowb5, thanks for your question. Chainring options differ between the Photon and the X1 Stealth/Pro. The Photon uses a proprietary mounting format and the number of sizes available from CYC is limited. The smallest available is currently a 34T. The X1 Stealth and Pro use a standard BCD104 format so you can use aftermarket sprockets to get gearing combo available. You just need to make sure it's within spec for the derailleur which can be an issue with 1x cassettes with large inner cogs in combo with large front sprockets. It's possible this issue you're having with your derailleur is related to this or the chain line offset common with BBSHD motors or the combination.
It is possible to run single speed (or convert your rear cassette hub to single speed). There are kits available for conversion (just avoid the fixy conversions). You'll want to use an online gearing calculator (like this www.gear-calculator.com/) to determine your chain ring and cog size combo. If you do go single speed you'll probably want to go with a larger front chainring.
The best choice of chainring will come down to the type of riding you're doing. If you do mostly technical single track and hills and don't care about peddling at speeds over 20-25mph, then a 32 or 34T chainring is probably your best bet. Most of these motors have enough power to climb +12 degree slopes even with a 38-40T chainring but a smaller chainring will take load off the motor, allow it to operate a lower power and run cooler.
Hi randy, interested in the x1 stealth gen 3, Ive got a carbon fibre MTB XC frame and wondering if it will be okay in that?, dont plan to use it heavily it will mostly just be used for commuting and the odd hill. Looking at the cyc due to the lower profile along the bottom.
Hi @robbrown92 thanks for the comment. Both the Stealth and the Pro are good choices for a carbon frame. Many of which have thick material at the bottom bracket or unusual frame bends in that area which can make fitment difficult on kits with a fixed drive mechanism. The CYC Stealth and Pro position the motor further away from the crank than a Bafang or the CYC Photon which is why'they're more flexible. It's also possible to positing the motor inside the front frame triangle with these kits on some builds depending on suspension linkage.
I have an older Rocky Mountain hardtail I want to convert because I no longer do any serious trail riding with it (sigh) as my knees are no longer up to it. (68 yo). I am going either up or down with not a lot of level trails, but I am never in a big hurry these days and want some exercise, but am looking to make it easier on my knees. I am 6’6”, 240 lbs. Not looking for serious power, but want range and reliability. Your thoughts as to whether i should get a Stealth or Photon? Suggestions and considerations welcome.
Hi @moongucanuck, if reliability is a top priority, you should consider the Bafang BBSHD. It's overbuilt, with a large motor that dissipates heat well and will be under less stress when it is pulling hard. Parts are common and they've been around long enough to work out most of the issues. That said, most friends and customers that have tried our bikes with Bafang and CYC motors prefer the response and progressive power delivery of the Stealth and the Pro. I would put the Photon in that same group but it's only recently available and it's the smallest of the bunch. Given your use case I would suggest the Stealth or the Pro. We have a lot of very steep climbs and descents in our area and both of these motors pull very well. I include the Pro because larger motors are often more efficient for a given work load. They don't work as hard and as a result, produce less heat. The power can be dialed in to deliver the desired amount of assist with the control at the handlebar and the torque sensor in the bottom bracket. As for range, the battery will have more impact on that, particularly if you're restricting power output to only deliver what you need to assist pedaling up the climb. Bigger batteries and motors add weight but that's more than made up for by the assistance they provide. Check out battery packs with the Samsung 21700 50E cells or similar to maximize power density for extended range.
@@R-eCycle This is a big help. Thanks very much. I was looking at the Stealth, but wondered if it was overkill. I still want exercise, but without joint stress. Muscles? Fine. Joints? Not so much. And I will definitely buy higher quality batteries. I was charging two low-cost 18650 batteries on the supplied charger and within 5 minutes started smelling burnt electric components. These things were too hot to pick up! So I appreciate the advice on battery quality, too. All the best. And once again, thanks for your videos and insights.
Are these only for street because I have the gen 3 stealth and there a small decal that says street version and the app street and race ?
@melbournechugging2999 If you're in AUS, I'm not sure how the units are being configured there. In the US, Street Mode is set to 750W and Race Mode is at 1200W maximum. The 750W sticker is referring to Street mode but you can still switch the motors to Race Mode for riding in areas that are unrestricted.
The sticker is to help with "compliance" of your different countries allowances for wattage etc ;)
For the Stealth & Pro model Im looking at,I have a Polygon T7 full susp. & it has a longer down tube where its attached to the BB,whats the "distance between the BB(spindle) & the motor" ,I wanna be able to swing the motor up high enuff if I can due to the longer portion of the downtube
Hi @joehiatt1992, you can find a print out of the X1 Pro here: www.cycmotor.com/_files/ugd/b1453b_e84bc7d10cae4d3089fd2ad468f424e4.pdf and the X1 Stealth here: www.cycmotor.com/_files/ugd/b1453b_5237672e8230432b8017670d9cacfb86.pdf . The hole in the support frame on the right side would align with the BB opening on the bike. If you print these out without scaling the image, you should be able to find the distance to the edge of the motor that you're looking for. For instance, on the Pro, there are two bolts holding the motor to the support from on the right side of the motor housing. The bolt inbetween, just to the right retains the controller. The edge of the motor housing is just to left of it.
I am planning to order a Photon to replace my BBS02 on my current aluminium frame with BSA 73mm bracket. I am wondering if it would be possible to buy later on the necessary hardware to use it with a frame with a PF92 BB later on. Is it possible? Do I need to buy a new spindle with some spacers? or is it a different photon unit for PF92?
@v1ncen715, thanks for your question. Yes, the kits can be converted from 68\73\83 to PF BB92. The conversion parts needed are the Press Fit adapters, a 100mm spindle, a 100mm bearing cup for the non-drive side, additional shims and a different retaining nut. At the time of this writing the cost for the parts is a little over $100 before tax/shipping.
@@R-eCycle Where can you buy the spare parts? Can't find them anywhere.
They are special order. If you put in a request on the website, we can provide a parts list and a price quote.
I'm considering upgrading my tongsheng tsdz2b to the photon, but can't find any info on how much extra resistance there is for the photon when pedaling with no battery, as about half of the time I'm inside the city and don't need the electric assist, so I usually don't even bother taking the battery with me
Hi @violetavinocur4487, interesting question. It's hard to say exactly without finding a way to calibrate. I would say the Photon and the TSDZ2B are similar in terms of stiction with the motor off. Comparing the Photon with the X1 Stealth and Pro, the X1's definitely have more stiction than the Photon. It's most noticeable when turning the cranks by hand. Even with the higher resistance on the X1 Stealth and Pro, it's still easy to be pedal with the motor off and doesn't feel that heavy under foot.
Would carbon fiber belts upgrade the motor units of the Stealth and Pro? Replace those chains.
Maybe! They would be quieter. You'd have to find a very small cog and find a way to mount it to a keyed motor shaft. The freewheel is a BCD104 pattern so there are chainrings available that would fit. You'd also have to get a custom belt made to right length.
I see the Photon rated at 750W but have also seen 1200W and higher mentioned in relation to it. I'm trying to work out what amp draw my battery should be capable of and knowing the watts the motor can use is obviously important. Any ideas on what the max watts I should use in calculations might be? Thanks for the comparison by the way, good to see them side by side.
Thanks @abomorgan. The power on all three of these motors can be governed by the controller using the App so even the X1 Pro can be used with a battery pack with a BMS rated at 30A (and there are some advantages to this setup). 'Street Mode' is limited to 750W on the Pro and the Stealth to conform to legal requirements but laws differ in different countries and local jurisdictions. It's my understanding that CYC is currently limiting output to 750W on Photons outside the US. US units are being shipped with power capped at 1200W. I believe this is due to less restrictive laws on power output in the US vs Europe (or higher taxation in the EU based on power) . What I'm unsure of is if the cap is adjustable in software for EU customers or if it's a firmware modification that customers are unable to modify.
@@R-eCycle Thanks for the response, exactly what I was looking for!
And if you want to know what your set up can put out in watts you take
Amps x volts = watts
Controller x battery = motor
I dont have that problem with my bafang and I'm able to put a 32 tooth up to a 52 tooth and never had a problem with my chain in any way and my rear I have 11 to 34 tooth freewheel
Chain line is way more sensitive on some bikes than others. It depends on the length of the chain stays, the derailleur, the chain and if it's a full suspension bike or not. I've had some bikes have no issue but many have shifting problems, particularly with smaller chain rings because anything smaller than 42T is 10-20mm outboard of the desired chain line on a Bafang. Some of these issues are subtle and you can work around them like difficulty shifting between single gears in the middle of the cassette. Some are more major like not being able to adjust the derailleur to get all the gears from a 10, 11 or 12 speed.
Any idea when the x12 controller will be available?
Latest word is this fall but CYC has been pushing the date out every quarter since the beginning of the year. I think this is due to demand for Gen 3 and the Photon. They're starting to catch up now so hopefully we'll see the X12 before the end of the year.
Hola, tengo una Trek supercaliber. Carbono Cual de estos motores me puede ir. X1 stealth? Photon?
Hola @josericoleon3378, gracias por tu pregunta. Es posible que el Photon y el Stealth funcionen en el Supercalibre. El tipo de pedalier en los marcos varía según el año, así como la forma y el tamaño del marco. Usted querrá confirmar qué tipo tiene antes de ordenar. La versión anterior tiene el tipo de rosca estándar de 73 mm BB, los nuevos marcos tienen Press Fit 92, que es una opción para ambos motores. El motor Photon está unido al husillo mecánicamente para que el marco no pueda ser más grueso que 15 mm. Deberá medir el grosor del marco en el pedalier para verificar que sea inferior a 15 mm. El Stealth se adapta a una gama más amplia de cuadros porque el motor está colocado más lejos del pedalier, por lo que no tiene la misma limitación. Puede utilizar los diagramas del motor en el sitio web de CYC para comprobar cómo se colocará el motor una vez instalado.
Hola. Hay piezas de recambio para el motor? Gracias. Un saludo.
Hola. Sí, CYC ofrece piezas de repuesto para prácticamente todos los componentes, incluidos los controladores, los núcleos de motor y las ruedas libres, por ejemplo.
I'm really curious to see what it takes to upgrade the stealth from a Gen. 2 to a Gen. 3
Hi @bear5cents, there are a couple ways to do it. The least expensive way is to just upgrade the controller. The more complete conversion changes both mounting brackets, the freewheel assembly, the BB and bearing assemblies, the torque sensor, the spindle + cranks and the retaining hardware.
Me too. Have the first gen stealth (which i think they called the Gen 2 confusingly...) and it's been a great kit for the past 5-6 seasons! But i've had a few probs that i would like to try and rectify by upgrading; 1) the freewheel at the cranks is so easily infiltrated by the conditions of mountain biking (mud, rain, whatever else) that they will seize up. The original one didn't last long, the second iteration also got grinding and sticky after only a cpl months, and i had to wait for replacements to send from HK to CAD about 4 times that i required replacement? Great team at CYC Motor, but the waiting of weeks or month(s) meant a serious amount of downtime unable to ride (in some of the prime summer riding months too) ...which was sad :( and then 2) the older controllers could get zapped by moisture, but they replaced that too (same for waiting on shipping) and they now have their own in-house model. and then 3) my square taper cranks have come loose and warped once or twice requiring replacement. possibly number 4) is that i currently have my 4th or 5th freewheel at cranks, it's pooched just like the others all were, but i've been told it could be a prob with the bottom bracket having an issue too? Anyway, just some feedback! :) Oh and the 219 chain can get super mucked up from any mountain biking, dry or muddy. I've had to make a few iterations of splash guards for my bike to help with all of these issues, and that has def helped a ton, but not solved completely by any means. I'd be curious to get the photon instead as it's a closed unit and pretty plenty powerful for mountain biking! But it looks like it hangs pretty low in terms of clearance for riding over objects along the trail, which would be less than ideal to say the least.
Hey @dylandaviesdiptych it sounds like you've had a ton of experience with the Stealth but also had to deal with CYCs growing pains. They've had some issue but have shown consistent improvement. I haven't seen as many problems with the freewheel but we don't get nearly as wet here in NorCal. I still have a Gen 1 freewheel in use on a X1 Pro. The Gen 3 kits have far fewer ingress points so that should address some of your issues. No doubt square taper cranks are a problem - they tend to back out, start wobbling, then wear down the crank arms. They require high torque on the crank bolt and the bolts need to be rechecked frequently. Bafangs have the same issue but are even worse due to the softer metal they use in the crank arms - which is what makes the Lekkie parts so useful. The ISIS bottom bracket spindles are proven solution and common on all the Gen 3 and Photon kits. WRT part delays, we're trying to keep most spares and upgrade kits in stock to minimize the shipping delays. As for ground clearance, CYC shows photos of a Photon with the motor hanging straight down but it doesn't have to be mounted that way. These motors can be rotated forward on most frames with little or no clearance issues. I'll be posting another video soon with a bike build example. Even when hang below the BB, the Photon is much smaller than the BBS02 by comparison and only extends below the chainring by a couple inches.
@@R-eCycle I've understood that ISCG tabs can be in the way of Photon installation so you possibly need to shave them off. One of the reasons why I went with gen3 stealth instead. Just waiting for delivery
@mtbsieppo I've had this issue with the V1 Banshee Prime. I had to remove one of the tabs to fit a Bafang BBSHD. With the Photon it will be less of an issue because the motor is smaller and the gap between the BB shaft and the motor is larger but it may depend on the frame and how the builder wants the motor to hang.
I own a Trek FX3 disc that I want to install the Photon on. My bottom bracket is a Shimano BB-MT500 I’m not sure what size bottom bracket to order could you advise? Also my bottom bracket is a press fit what would be the proper tool to remove it and is that all I have to do is remove my bottom bracket and install the Photon?
Hey Cisco, the Shimano BB-MT500 is a Press Fit 92 compatible bottom bracket. With the bearing housings removed, the CYC Photon kit with 92mm PF adapters should fit FX3, no problem. You should measure the frame to verify the spacers you'll need to get the correct width for BB alignment.
There are specific bottom bracket extraction and press tools for removal and installation. Park Tools has a great video on this here: czcams.com/video/2VnwKrC9rS0/video.html. If you don't want to buy the tools, you can take your frame to your local bike shop and have them pull the old bearing cups out and install the Press Fit adapters supplied by CYC. Then take the frame home and finish the installation yourself.
@@R-eCycle Thanks for all of that info so the BB92 is the one I should get am I right? I don’t understand the whole measuring the frame to get the right adapters part could you elaborate on that a bit.
@@ciscokid2444 sure thing. If you order the Photon and specify the PF92 size, it will come with the adapters you need to insert into the frame, a longer spindle and the additional shims for the Photon's left side mounting plate to fit your frame. The Shimano BB-MT500 specifies it fits 89.5mm BB and 92mm BBs. It shouldn't be an issue but I would just check the width of your frame (not including the bearing cups). If it's on on the smaller side (89.5) just make sure you can fully insert the adapters to fit flush against the sides of the frame when inserted. It's not much of a difference but you want the PF92 adapters to fit tight against the sides. A bike shop will be able to tell if thats the case and they should have small spacers to fill the gap if necessary,
@@R-eCycle Thank you so much and I’m a new subscriber for sure.
Cyc that ebike conversion kit i . more love 😅😊
Is there any way to use any of the CYC motors with a belt drive?
There is! The CYC X1 Stealth and Pro both have a freewheel with a BCD 104 format. That means you can mount any chaingring that conforms to that pattern. There are belt drive 'chainrings' available in that size. The Photon uses a customer mounting pattern for the chainring so they won't work.
With the cyc X1 and stealth, how well do they work mounted on top of the down tube? And how do you do it?
Yes! You will need to remove the non-drive side mounting bracket to get the motor between the frame. On the Stealth you need to be careful to not damage a very fine O-ring gasket when removing/reinstalling. You can see an example of one of the on the Santa Cruz Blur in another one of our videos here czcams.com/video/Ut63UvC18Ow/video.html . We'll be putting another example of a similar build up soon as well.
@R-eCycle looking forward for fresh video with this amazing idea 😊
I have a Gary Fisher mullet and would love to install the photon vertically in between the frame tubes if this is possible?
Does anyone know how many miles these batteries or these converters give?
Hi @josefernandezmendez1627 These kits are sold independently from the batteries. There are a wide range of batteries available (~500-1400Wh). Your range will largely be determined by the size pack you can fit on your bike. Generally speaking, you can fit larger battery packs than what's offered by production eBikes being sold by factories. The other factor for range is how much power you draw. If you primarily use pedal assist at moderate speed with light hills, you will get 2-4x the range compared to primarily using the throttle, riding at top speed or climbing steep hills. With a 52V 13Ah 675Wh battery pack, using primarily throttle you might only get 15-20 miles of range. With the same motor and battery, using a pedal assist feature at low power, you can easily get 40mile or more range on a single charge.
I might of missed it but are they all 52 volt ?
Thanks for the comment @ferguson8143. I only mentioned voltage briefly and didn't mention the full range. The Photon and Stealth can operate using packs between 36-52V. The Pro can operate between 36 and 72V but requires the 750c display option to use with 72V packs.
@@R-eCycle nice I would rather go with the 72 volt. For my next ebike build. Thanks for replying back
The pro Yes because it's more wattage calculator to me 😅😊
I ordered one of these from Cyc 5 months ago,,, how many years did it take to get yours????😖
Wow. I've never heard of it taking that long. Our experience is 6-8 weeks since the first of this year.
@@R-eCycle Comment erased again..???
What everyone, including myself wants to know is, what is the max the speed of each motor!! based on an average weight person, using different voltage batteries, be nice too if CYC bothered to do their own top quality batteries to match their motors.
Thanks for your question @howardridge1153. I presume you're asking for the top speed achievable for the bike as opposed to motor RPM? The motor will make it easier to sustain top speed but speed is primarily governed by gearing and the size of your wheels and tires. Rider effort + motor output is governed by RPM (spindle). Bike + rider weight and aerodynamics (at higher speeds) impact load. This comes into play when your combined effort can't sustain RPM at a given load - typically while climbing.
Generally speaking any of these motors can achieve typical max speeds with human assistance on flat terrain. You can find a calculator to figure out what the theoretical speed of your bike is here: www.bikecalc.com/gear_speed. For example, using this formula, a bike with 700c/29 inch wheels, 2.5 inch tires, a 50T chainring and an 11T rear cog will reach a speed of 35.9 MPH at 90 RPM.
The Photon's have a proprietary chainring format so choices are limited but the largest available from CYC is a 50T which is fairly large. The Photon is rated at 1200W (sustainable) but peak torque is significantly lower (110nm) than the Stealth or the Pro. With identical gearing the Photon will sustain similar speeds on flat terrain. Put it on a steep hill and you will struggle to keep it up.
The Stealth and Pro currently have options for up to a 38T chainrings from CYC but they both use a BCD 104 mounting. You can increase the size of bicycle drive to the extent you can find a chainring that fits the format and the bike. Both motors have higher peak torque than the Photon but the Pro is designed to sustain significantly higher output so it will produce less heat and operate more efficiently under sustained high loads.
In terms of batteries, CYC does produce their own 52V packs in two sizes and power outputs. We carry the larger versions which you can find here: www.r-ecycle.com/product-page/cyc-motor-x1-series-b-52l-battery-pack. The 40T cell version has a higher discharge rate for greater acceleration. The 50E is designed for greater range and is a better choice for the Photon or the Stealth.
@@R-eCycle wow a proper reply, thanks soo much for that detailed advice however my 1500w rear wheel 26" can achieve 38.4mph on the flat, throttle only and can keep up full throttle, no peddling for 13 plus miles on a 48v 17ah battery, why am i even going here with cyc, i am an engineer and love the look but at a price, maybe just maybe ill check my 750w bafang when they send me 10mm of spacer washers to fit it to my bike and get back to you on this scenario, thanks again, howard
Hi@@howardridge1153, thanks for the follow-up. Your 1500W hub motor is doing 38.4 MPH with 26 inch wheels because it's running at the equivalent of about 105 RPM at the crank. The CYC can operate in this range on throttle only too, it's just tough on range. All of these motors are designed for human assist which is why you're only getting 13 miles out of a 17Ah pack. The Bafang 750W BBS02 is a solid motor (and controller) but the main benefit of the CYCs is the torque sensing bottom bracket which modulates the power progressively based on your effort. If you want top speed and to ride using throttle only most of the time, I would recommend a CYC X1 Pro with a big chainring and a high amp BMS and high C rated 72V pack. The CYC X12 controller is suppose to be ready this summer which is rated at 6000W and will deliver even less range! LoL
@@R-eCycle yes i can believe that i canna keep up peddling run out around 28mph, well the bafang never did jack sh!t, started to fit to my single ring full sus bike and back of motor hit swingarm pivot and gap is 7 mm to get tight to bb shell, plus 44t chainring also hit chain stay, the sellers bright idea use 10mm spacers and pack out chainring, no thanks, a flawed design, they claim this is first time they ever had this problem, nonsense i replied my bike is industry standard these days they claim because my frame is "bigger" this is the issue, complete clowns who know nothing about bikes, plus only 32kph max speed i can get a yose power 350w wheel kit that does more without the hassle of fitting bottom bracket motor, i'm in usa in two weeks time may go for stealth motor for small size, speed is ok, not after mega speed just nice to have a bit of power on tap, lol thanks again for reply.
Whats the best set up for range on a 29er... Door Dasher looking to replace the car...
best set up for dependability and range?
Hi @jporpmer, thanks for your question. Dependability may depend on your riding conditions. The Photon is fully encloses so it may be a better choice in some environments where there is more exposure to dirt or water. The trade off is the design is newer so it has undergone fewer updates. It benefits from some similarity to the motor core, controller and freewheel/torque sensor but the mechanical drive is a new design for instance. The Gen 3 Stealth and Pro are similar and share many components with the biggest difference being the motor core. The larger core on the Pro will allow it to run cooler and theoretically, larger electric motors are capable of running more efficiently than smaller motors so at lower power levels, it may be the best performer for range even though it has larger mass.
@R-eCycle Thank you and as for battery set ups the lower the voltage and the higher the ah means more range? as the higher the voltage would drain the battery more? Looking to Door Dash using an e bike set up.
Actually the higher the voltage the greater the power density for a given Ah rating. Watt hours (Wh) is a better measure of capacity but you can calculate it by multiplying the volts x Ah. Also a higher voltage will allow the motor to spin at a higher RPM which is typically more efficient.
Is that the torque sensor crank?
Yes, all the CYC motor kits include a torque sensor in the bottom bracket for adjusting power from the motor.
How do attach the magnet if you have mag wheels? Non spoke wheels.
I've seen zip ties used to attach them. You can add a little double sided tape behind it if it won't stay with the zip tie alone.
I'm concerned about the reliability of these motors, there seems to be issues surrounding them overheating according to many youtubers out there, plus they're not exactly cheap as it is!
I think it depends on how you're using them. The failures I'm aware of were based on bikes that were used like scooters with very little if any pedaling. These kits are made primarily for pedal assist so if you use them that way the motor isn't running at it's limits most of the time. If you are going to use mostly throttle, I would recommend sticking with the Pro which has more motor mass and will dissipate heat more effectively. Better yet, use the pedals to assist the motor under heavy load like starting from a stop or climbing hills.
Cyc states the photon unrestricted can be as high as 2000w.
I think that's a peak figure but in terms of continuous operation, what I've seen is typically a little over 1200W on a full battery in the highest settings.
Maybe usually use to your 😂 noise 😅😊