After using the GPW since July and trying out the xtrfy m4, zy rail, ec3-c, viper ultimate, roccat kone, xm1r, S2, np-01 I have final found a mouse I love EC2-C :) the S2 was my second favourite but I prefer ergo. I did by outset ax to try out... Thank god for Amazon marketplace and easy returns lol.
Bought the EC2-C for my palm grip (18x10) and its an absolute joy to play with it, I also was thinking about the Outset AX but I think with the size and the huge hump would make me feel to restricted especially in vertical movements. Anyways Great video and really enjoy your other reviews! :)
The outset could feel restrictive if you flatten out your hand and try to fill out your palm as much as possible, but the cutoff back gives a surprisingly large vertical range of motion if you back off of the hump a little. Its front will feel larger than the ec2, though, no matter how you grip it.
I have the AX. And you're absolute right. The EC2-C is the best for palm grip, especially for small hands that gets your wrist off the mousepad. The EC3-C's back isn't as good as the EC2-C for palming/claw-palm.
@@KraftyCraftKraf 20x10cm hands for relaxed claw would suit EC1 or EC2? I enjoyed G502, G9X most due to width of them, but not GPW: 1. G9X was a little bit more agile on length with micro-movements 2. G502 was a perfect fit like a glove with which a full hand was moving. 3. Currently, I have Logitech G Pro Wireless and my hand rejects it due to size. It’s just too small for me and bottom part just walks right and left in my palm 3. RocketJumpNinja theory states that I need EC2-CW at 60% Thanks 😊😢
I've been using the EC2-A for years it has the old white logo pre benq aha it's starting to show it's age due to a long period of use think I'm gonna upgrade it with a EC2-C Thanks for the great review 😌 🙂
I picked up the za13 c and have a superlight, I feel like at the end of the day using them will have to make you adjust your grip to like any mouse you can use. Good review. :)
@@suryamadhav3183 you also have to look at size and where the hump is. Depending on your hand positioning. The 13c has a high hump near the back, and ofcourse completely different from the ergo style. I know here in the us if you do the box from Zowie for 25$ they’ll send you all their mice and you pick the one that fits you best and then send the box back, you’ll get charged for the one you keep. Is that an option over there?
@@oluna8369 its not available in india i use razer viper mini now and i do claw grip Can u suggest which one i can buy (ec3-c and s2-c is available right now za13-c might take 2-3months so should i wait for it or)??
If you ever get the chance, definitely try the Logitech G400. They have a unique shape that is perfect for the hybrid claw/palm grip, and are nearly indestructible (mine is now 11 years old!)
I received my ec2-c yesterday. The mouse is good, in fact the weak point is the main buttons, the rest of the mouse is very decent. Like you, I have a certain difficulty in feeling comfortable using this shape, I believe because of the angle on the right side. Using superlight or g703 my grip is more neutral and more comfortable, I'm trying like you to find a good grip. I really like the shape of the 403-703, from what I saw the outset has a similar proposal to the raised back. what about the shape of the outset in relation to the g703?
Here's a post on vaxee's site that details the outset's shape in comparison to the g403/703 www.vaxee.co/EN/feature.php?c=AX_G703 It has some good analysis that helps and helps you see them side by side. From what I've experienced, the backs of the two mice feel completely different. The 403's hump comes to a point in the middle and hits deep in my hand while the outset's back is pretty flat and you more place your hand on top of it instead of wrapping around. In my normal pincer claw grip, I get a much better range of motion with the outset because it contacts my hand on the outside of my palm instead of deep in the middle like the g403.
G403 and Outset feel roughly the same but i feel like i can get finer reticle placement with the g403. If you are looking for more finger support, I highly recommend the Prime Wireless. It has a very balanced shape and imho, is the best full palm shape besides the g403. It totally fixes the lazy aim feeling I get from the EC-2 while giving me that confidence with the finger support. The NP-01 is like a mini g403 if you want even finer control, although I do feel shaky on my off days using that. Honestly , after only a month of having the Prime, I just can't put it down. I still use the NP-01, but the Prime ends up on my desk more and more. It's just one of those mice for me that gives me everything without sacrifice. If you aren't a precise clicker though, you will struggle to tap-fire without bursting with the Prime's awkward debounce. It took me no time though to notice it and adjust. It does not affect your initial shot timing though. You just have to come off the click as quickly as you press it.
Hey, Krafty, I wondered if you could make a shape comparison between the xm1 and g pro. I know they're are entirely different mice, but I have a g pro, and I wanted to know the shape in comparison so if I should or should not buy the xm1. If you can't make the comparison, that is fine-just a request.
hey there good video,just bought the EC3-C because i got a small hand i had g pro and g pro superlight can't find the right grip on them i hope for the better ;)
my hand is 18cmx10.5cm, do you recommend e2c-c or e3c-c. I found viper mini too small for my hand and it;'s 118mm length. I am pincher claw and maining gpx atm
Hard to say. Both mice are very different and its hard to directly compare them. The GPX is the safer option and you should be able to get a good grip in both of the styles you mentioned. Plus 60g wireless feels incredible and it's very hard to beat that performance. The ec2-c is still a great mouse but its slanted ergo design is much more preferential. It can be very comfortable if you grip it right and are okay with the hand filling feel I was talking about. Plus its way cheaper and a decent value for such a high quality mouse.
Yeah, there are usually certain combos that work out better than the sum of their parts. I like the ec2 and gpz1 combo for aim trainer tracking specifically because of the consistency and smoothness it brings. The combo is super stable and I can easily grind scores when I focus up. I can't use this setup in-game, though, because it's so muddy that I have to put too much effort into aiming and it's hard to focus on anything besides using my mouse. With lighter, smaller mice I almost always prefer more textured surfaces. It's pretty easy to have a setup feel floaty to me on these mice so a textured pad gives me back some tactility and makes it much easier to control. On fast pads, I like low front mice like the xm1, np-01s, za13, ect. The combo of a fast and effortless feeling surface with a mouse that is easy to finely control feels very responsive.
@@KraftyCraftKraf oh yeah I get what you mean about not using a setup in-game. didn't understand what people meant when they called kpu a kovaaks only mouse till I had that experience with the burst pro and zero xsoft. was nice for tracking since the wide/full claw grip you got with it gave great stability and the slow stock feet + extra mousepad plush gave me lots of control with the ability to pressure for more. click timing was also doable but tiring and kinda hurt speed cause of the stiff clicks. it's nice to hear people's experiences with peripherals while aim training. shame not many try to articulate more about it. I've mostly isolated my main peripherals where I go to the mz1 for precision, hati-s kinda for speed, and so far, the g303 for overall stability/consistency. still trying out alternatives for the last one but your reviews have been very helpful at eliminating what will and won't work for me haha. thanks for the thorough response as always
Yeah, it does. If I relax my thumb its 9.5 cm wide and if I press it into my hand its 9 cm. I'm not sure what the proper way to measure is so I give the range.
@@KraftyCraftKraf i only ask because my hand width with thumb is ~11cm and length around 18.5cm, I find the viper ultimate and S2 too narrow and i have to play with my pinky extended which causes discomfort. I’ve been considering the EC2-C since I know that the EC1-C would be too wide for me to have a decent aim because I used Razer DA V2 and it was uncomfortable unless I palm grip which makes me less accurate.
I haven't tried that mouse yet but I'll probably get to it eventually. From everything I've heard, it's slightly larger than the ec2 all around and has a more bulbous back like the outset ax.
@@KraftyCraftKraf I can’t get a good grip on my gpro or my xm1 . My friends death adder feels so comfortable except for the sharp corner at the top right side . The ec2 looks so good but the xlite also looks amazing with the lower weight
Yeah the xlite looks great on paper. The only thing I'm worried about is that it may be a little bit large for me because the ec2/outset ax seems about the largest I think I could comfortably use. It seems to be similarly sized to the death adder, though, so that shouldn't be an issue for you.
try out xtrfy m4, just got it, its banger. i have outset already outset as well, but this just feels much better, as it thinner in palm, and dont restrict me that much.
After using the GPW since July and trying out the xtrfy m4, zy rail, ec3-c, viper ultimate, roccat kone, xm1r, S2, np-01 I have final found a mouse I love EC2-C :) the S2 was my second favourite but I prefer ergo. I did by outset ax to try out... Thank god for Amazon marketplace and easy returns lol.
revisiting this vid after pulsar, prime, model d, and other ec clones. ec2c is just best one even if having wire
Bought the EC2-C for my palm grip (18x10) and its an absolute joy to play with it, I also was thinking about the Outset AX but I think with the size and the huge hump would make me feel to restricted especially in vertical movements.
Anyways Great video and really enjoy your other reviews! :)
The outset could feel restrictive if you flatten out your hand and try to fill out your palm as much as possible, but the cutoff back gives a surprisingly large vertical range of motion if you back off of the hump a little. Its front will feel larger than the ec2, though, no matter how you grip it.
I have the AX.
And you're absolute right.
The EC2-C is the best for palm grip, especially for small hands that gets your wrist off the mousepad.
The EC3-C's back isn't as good as the EC2-C for palming/claw-palm.
@@KraftyCraftKraf 20x10cm hands for relaxed claw would suit EC1 or EC2? I enjoyed G502, G9X most due to width of them, but not GPW:
1. G9X was a little bit more agile on length with micro-movements
2. G502 was a perfect fit like a glove with which a full hand was moving.
3. Currently, I have Logitech G Pro Wireless and my hand rejects it due to size. It’s just too small for me and bottom part just walks right and left in my palm
3. RocketJumpNinja theory states that I need EC2-CW at 60%
Thanks 😊😢
I've been using the EC2-A for years it has the old white logo pre benq aha it's starting to show it's age due to a long period of use think I'm gonna upgrade it with a EC2-C
Thanks for the great review 😌 🙂
I really love the EC2-A. Cant wait to get my hands on a EC2-C. Its only 73g and paracorded :)
is the ec2-c and upgrade of ec2-a?
I picked up the za13 c and have a superlight, I feel like at the end of the day using them will have to make you adjust your grip to like any mouse you can use. Good review. :)
Bro which is better(i dont care about wireless)
@@suryamadhav3183 honestly for the price man, I would go with the za13c. There’s no need to spend the 150 unless it’s disposable income.
@@oluna8369 bro one more doubt i have confusion BTW S2-c,Ec3-c,za13-c idk which one to buy za13-c will only come after 2 months in my country (India)
@@suryamadhav3183 you also have to look at size and where the hump is. Depending on your hand positioning. The 13c has a high hump near the back, and ofcourse completely different from the ergo style. I know here in the us if you do the box from Zowie for 25$ they’ll send you all their mice and you pick the one that fits you best and then send the box back, you’ll get charged for the one you keep. Is that an option over there?
@@oluna8369 its not available in india
i use razer viper mini now and i do claw grip
Can u suggest which one i can buy
(ec3-c and s2-c is available right now za13-c might take 2-3months so should i wait for it or)??
Would really appreciate a top 5 list of your favorite mice
I'll have to make one sometime pretty soon.
I just realized that it looks like you’re talking with your fingers xD
lol actually true
If you ever get the chance, definitely try the Logitech G400. They have a unique shape that is perfect for the hybrid claw/palm grip, and are nearly indestructible (mine is now 11 years old!)
I received my ec2-c yesterday. The mouse is good, in fact the weak point is the main buttons, the rest of the mouse is very decent. Like you, I have a certain difficulty in feeling comfortable using this shape, I believe because of the angle on the right side. Using superlight or g703 my grip is more neutral and more comfortable, I'm trying like you to find a good grip. I really like the shape of the 403-703, from what I saw the outset has a similar proposal to the raised back. what about the shape of the outset in relation to the g703?
Here's a post on vaxee's site that details the outset's shape in comparison to the g403/703
www.vaxee.co/EN/feature.php?c=AX_G703
It has some good analysis that helps and helps you see them side by side.
From what I've experienced, the backs of the two mice feel completely different. The 403's hump comes to a point in the middle and hits deep in my hand while the outset's back is pretty flat and you more place your hand on top of it instead of wrapping around. In my normal pincer claw grip, I get a much better range of motion with the outset because it contacts my hand on the outside of my palm instead of deep in the middle like the g403.
G403 and Outset feel roughly the same but i feel like i can get finer reticle placement with the g403. If you are looking for more finger support, I highly recommend the Prime Wireless. It has a very balanced shape and imho, is the best full palm shape besides the g403. It totally fixes the lazy aim feeling I get from the EC-2 while giving me that confidence with the finger support. The NP-01 is like a mini g403 if you want even finer control, although I do feel shaky on my off days using that. Honestly , after only a month of having the Prime, I just can't put it down. I still use the NP-01, but the Prime ends up on my desk more and more. It's just one of those mice for me that gives me everything without sacrifice. If you aren't a precise clicker though, you will struggle to tap-fire without bursting with the Prime's awkward debounce. It took me no time though to notice it and adjust. It does not affect your initial shot timing though. You just have to come off the click as quickly as you press it.
Hey, Krafty, I wondered if you could make a shape comparison between the xm1 and g pro. I know they're are entirely different mice, but I have a g pro, and I wanted to know the shape in comparison so if I should or should not buy the xm1. If you can't make the comparison, that is fine-just a request.
hey there good video,just bought the EC3-C because i got a small hand i had g pro and g pro superlight can't find the right grip on them i hope for the better ;)
Yo is that a Samson q2u you got there? Goat budget microphone for sure
Yeah, good eye
I’m super happy with it so far
my hand is 18cmx10.5cm, do you recommend e2c-c or e3c-c. I found viper mini too small for my hand and it;'s 118mm length.
I am pincher claw and maining gpx atm
is the zowie ec2 a same lengh as this
Which one is better for my hand size(18x10)? GPX or EC2. Mainly claw and relaxed claw.
Hard to say. Both mice are very different and its hard to directly compare them. The GPX is the safer option and you should be able to get a good grip in both of the styles you mentioned. Plus 60g wireless feels incredible and it's very hard to beat that performance. The ec2-c is still a great mouse but its slanted ergo design is much more preferential. It can be very comfortable if you grip it right and are okay with the hand filling feel I was talking about. Plus its way cheaper and a decent value for such a high quality mouse.
@@KraftyCraftKraf Thanks !
I saw you were using this with the gpz1. do you have certain mice and pads you like using for specific scenarios?
Yeah, there are usually certain combos that work out better than the sum of their parts. I like the ec2 and gpz1 combo for aim trainer tracking specifically because of the consistency and smoothness it brings. The combo is super stable and I can easily grind scores when I focus up. I can't use this setup in-game, though, because it's so muddy that I have to put too much effort into aiming and it's hard to focus on anything besides using my mouse.
With lighter, smaller mice I almost always prefer more textured surfaces. It's pretty easy to have a setup feel floaty to me on these mice so a textured pad gives me back some tactility and makes it much easier to control.
On fast pads, I like low front mice like the xm1, np-01s, za13, ect. The combo of a fast and effortless feeling surface with a mouse that is easy to finely control feels very responsive.
@@KraftyCraftKraf oh yeah I get what you mean about not using a setup in-game. didn't understand what people meant when they called kpu a kovaaks only mouse till I had that experience with the burst pro and zero xsoft. was nice for tracking since the wide/full claw grip you got with it gave great stability and the slow stock feet + extra mousepad plush gave me lots of control with the ability to pressure for more. click timing was also doable but tiring and kinda hurt speed cause of the stiff clicks.
it's nice to hear people's experiences with peripherals while aim training. shame not many try to articulate more about it. I've mostly isolated my main peripherals where I go to the mz1 for precision, hati-s kinda for speed, and so far, the g303 for overall stability/consistency. still trying out alternatives for the last one but your reviews have been very helpful at eliminating what will and won't work for me haha. thanks for the thorough response as always
today xtrfy m4 incoming, lets see, i love shape of rival 300, but it was too big for my 19 x 10 hand
where the hell do you get these? I cant find any in stock
Nowhere. Zowie is having production issues and hasn't made any c series mice for a while now.
@@KraftyCraftKraf damn, unlucky... thx for the answer.
Does your hand width include the thumb?
Yeah, it does. If I relax my thumb its 9.5 cm wide and if I press it into my hand its 9 cm. I'm not sure what the proper way to measure is so I give the range.
@@KraftyCraftKraf i only ask because my hand width with thumb is ~11cm and length around 18.5cm, I find the viper ultimate and S2 too narrow and i have to play with my pinky extended which causes discomfort. I’ve been considering the EC2-C since I know that the EC1-C would be too wide for me to have a decent aim because I used Razer DA V2 and it was uncomfortable unless I palm grip which makes me less accurate.
How does it compare to the pulsar xlite?
I haven't tried that mouse yet but I'll probably get to it eventually. From everything I've heard, it's slightly larger than the ec2 all around and has a more bulbous back like the outset ax.
@@KraftyCraftKraf I can’t get a good grip on my gpro or my xm1 . My friends death adder feels so comfortable except for the sharp corner at the top right side . The ec2 looks so good but the xlite also looks amazing with the lower weight
Yeah the xlite looks great on paper. The only thing I'm worried about is that it may be a little bit large for me because the ec2/outset ax seems about the largest I think I could comfortably use. It seems to be similarly sized to the death adder, though, so that shouldn't be an issue for you.
thinking about getting one, but my collection is already so big...
Never big enough for another mouse!
burst pro pls~~~
Bump
🙏 may the algo gods be pleased
hm
mousepad de gay
try out xtrfy m4, just got it, its banger. i have outset already outset as well, but this just feels much better, as it thinner in palm, and dont restrict me that much.
The shape looks pretty cool on the m4. I might have to try it out some time.