Repertoire: The IDEAL Puccini Operas
Vložit
- čas přidán 11. 01. 2021
- Everyone loves them, everyone sings them, everyone records them. Here is a uniformly strong list of the seven major Puccini operas featuring uniformly superb singing, conducting and sonics. There's not a weak link in the bunch, I promise. Go for it!
- Hudba
That Karajan Boheme is so glorious. The playing of the orchestra alone is worth the price of admission. Those Berlin horns!!! But the fresh young Pavarotti was so fine... I cry every time I listen to it. Breaks my heart. Karajan was an opera genius, imo.
I love his recordings for the orchestral playing, nobody could get such a gorgeous sound out of an orchestra like he could. But as opera is primarily about the voice, his priorities were somewhat askew.
@@kennethwayne6857 Abbado thougt that this recording was too german, lacks italian spirit in the orchestra
@@albastros8829 Who am I to say he wasn't right?
Puccini is my favorite composer. Renata Tebaldi is ( and always will be) my favorite singer. Combine the two and I'm VERY happy.
"La Fanciulla del West" is my favorite Puccini, and one of my very favorite operas by anybody. No long arias. Gorgeous orchestration (as you pointed out), and a touching love scene that doesn't go on and on. As a native Californian, I love the literal 'spaghetti western' aspect of it. Any opera where the miners in a dirty mining town sing "doo-dar" to a whole tone scale is THE opera for me.
It’s mine too! I wonder, have you heard the live Florence recording from 1954 with Del Monaco, Steber and Guelfi? To my knowledge it’s the only recording to open up the 17-bar cut in the Act II love duet.
Don't forget "Whiskey per tutti!"
@@xxsaruman82xx87 That one is ideal my friend. 🇫🇷 🎶🎼🎵🍷 ARNOLD
The only true silliness in Fanciulla is confined to 1) the cowboys greeting each other with "Hello!" and 2) the primitive portrayal of Native Americans Billie and Wowkle. Otherwise, I think it's pretty gripping melodrama. Puccini's music during the poker game is endlessly fascinating to me, because who has an idea of what sort of music is needed there? Yet, he has a mysterious, repetitive theme that creates the right mood and undergoes subtle shifts in tonality as the dramatic situation unfolds. It shows Puccini to be a master of subtlety, not just the grand gesture. I think it's quite uncanny.
It's one of if not my favourite too. It's certainly my dad's favourite!
I once heard a critic describe Bergonzi's onstage appearance as a "a pear in need of a shave."
I like the Freni/Pavarotti/Levine's Manon Lescaut very much. Among other things, it has arguably the best ever performance of the Intermezzo.
Thank you for this talk, David. I don’t know them very well, so this helped out a lot!
I will never forget the day the Mehta Turandot arrived (in the record store were I worked then). When we got to "in questa reggia", I could scarcely believe my ears. I could understand every word, and I couldn't believe it was Joan Sutherland singing. She was, of course, wonderful.
Well, have you listened to Nilsson?
She always seemed to be at her best on the very few (all too few) occasions where Bonynge was not involved.
@@xxsaruman82xx87 I have heard Nilsson, but unfortunately the opera bores me.
@@NYCOPERAFAN One of Sutherland's great roles was Donna Anna in Giulini's Don Giovanni.
I was delighted to see your choice of Scotto/Bergonzi/Barbirolli as your Butterfly. This has long been one of my most treasured recordings (vinyl and CD) and really fired my expansion from symphonic music into opera. That love duet at the end of Act 1 is right up there with my greatest classical moments. Thanks for refreshing those memories, David.
Karajan's Boheme and Butterfly were (was?) the double whammy that got me hooked on opera, which made Freni's Manon Lescaut one of my top ten most memorable evenings up in the Met cheap seats back in the mid '80's. Her voice filled the place and soared above the orchestra, yet always stayed creamy smooth and delicious. When she cut loose at the end, "Sola, perduta..." Wow. Words fail.
"comprised", "made up" or "formed"? Avoids all those pesky grammar issues.
I love that we agree on Tosca! (And all the others too actually). That's always been my favourite recording. Jose Carreras is just superb.
That was Carreras's finest performance on disc. His worst was when he agreed to the bumper pay day to sing on Bernstein's West Side Story. What was Bernstein thinking ? A Spaniard in the Bronx ! It didn't work but they all payed their tax bills nicely with the royalties !
This Puccini without words disc is good for Karaoke !!
The Mirella Freni/Von Karajan recording is rapturously beautiful and packed with drama. The cast is great, especially Christa Ludwig as Suzuki. But this is Mirella Freni's crowning glory of her recording career. Her performance is perfect, vocally and dramatically. HVK and the VPO sound glorious. The dissonant chord at the end by the brass and percussion sections is so daring of Puccini and utterly shattering.
I’m in love with the Angela Gheorghiu recording of “Madama Butterfly” ; even her controversial top note at the end of her entrance.
Five of your seven are my first choices on cd, although there are some very fine videos also. For a cracking Suor Angelica see the ROH video of five years ago featuring Ermonela Jaho in the title role. If that doesn't leave you stunned, you have a heart of stone.
I kinda liked the Berio ending. It's not Puccini, but like the pyramid at the Louvre, the old and the new combine surprisingly well (and like the pyramid at the Louvre, it's easy to think that a different architect might have designed something better).
There's a theory that Puccini realized he had written himself into a corner, and decided that the easiest way out was to just die.
Thanks!
Thank you very much!
Dropping on here to say hello, a blast from the past. You might recall from Mountain View Tower. Nice to see you still passionately opinionated, knowledgeable and a nice looking tam tam behind you there. Best, Donna Hill
Sure I remember. Great to hear from you, and thanks for dropping in! I hope that everything is going well for you. All my best wishes!
Oddly enough, Michael Gielen mentions in his memoirs that "Manon Lescaut" is one of his favorite operas. It was odd too how good of a conductor Karajan was of the Italian repertoire. Usually, conductors do one (Furtwängler mostly) or the other (Tullio Serafin.) Thanks for the overview of Puccini! I'd never heard of the orchestral works before.
Charter member of the Freni Fan Club here. Loved this and hope to eventually see your Weber overview. (And Strauss. And a few select Haydn operas. Etc.)
For some time I've owned the cheap-as-chips 15-disc box set of operas issued by Decca:The Great Opera Collection (mainly Tebaldi, Bergonzi, del Monaco, conducted mostly by Serafin) and it's served me well, but it will be good to seek out some alternative versions.
Apart from the great choices already posted, I'll add the Bjoerling/Albanese Manon Lescaut, and mainly because of two scenes. The first is when de Grieux meets Manon (Cortese damigella, with Bjoerling in one of his most sublime moments) and the final act where Albanese dies magnificently (Più non t’ascolto - ahimè-è-è-è! Wheeeeeeeeeze....). I know I'm cheating on selections, but anytime I hear those scenes in other performances I wish that they were done as well as the old RCA.
For complete recordings, the Beecham Bohème is my first love and still maintains that special warmth so many years later.
LOVE both recordings! So rare that we get a first-class baritone as Lescaut.
I guess Sutherland benefited from Puccini's impeccable skill of meshing together text and music.
And playing Mehta's Turandot with the volume up to 11 really sends makes the walls shake. I wonder what my neighbors were thinking last week that happened to me at 2 am.
Kind of in the same boat as you regarding opera but my favs align with yours, for the most part.
I like the Colin Davis Tosca a lot but I have a soft spot for Sinopoli/Freni/Domingo as well. I had no idea about the Chailly album at the end.
Well, I'm off to listen to 3-4 Ring cycles in their entirety, without sleeping or eating.
It's a Muti album, although Chailly did the same items and either one will do ya.
A number of new recordings for me to explore, thanks David! I love a bit of Rondine - some gorgeous music in it. I have played it in the pit though, which invariably ignites/deepens my love for great operas. I have the Gheorghiu/Alagna with Pappano, which is great but don’t know how it compares to other recordings. Interested to know how you think the Tosca with the same team compares to your favourites?
It's a very good Tosca.
Great review as ever. Got to admit that there's always a battle in my mind in terms of who is the better Italian opera composer, verdi or puccini. I love them both.
One odd thing I noticed about puccini is that at least for me and in my view his most beautiful and catchy and lovely music is contained in the first act of the opera - with one notable exception, tosca, which is i think the most balanced of his operas musically, and I love every moment of it start to finish. The first act rule applies most conspicuously for me in la bohem, where I actually stop listening after act one, because that's where the most beautiful tunes and music is. But for me at least it's really sort of a rule with puccini. Not that his second and third acts are bad, they're just less exciting and beautiful musically as a whole.
I think the second act of Turandot is by far the best.
Bon dia. I totally agree with this selection i wouldn't make a change. I’m very surprised because we don’t know each other and I would have done the same. I have never met anyone like you.
Thanks for watching, and it's good to meet you!
What did you think of the Anna Netrebko recording of Boheme with the Bavarian Radio Orchestra?
Hi there. Thank for doing these videos, interesting and i learn a lot. This particular video was very interesting because i'm deep into these operas, and it's fun to hear that i'm on the same wavelength on almost all picks. La Boheme Karajan, followed by Beecham's recording, Trittico, Turandot, Tosca (i accept the mono-version), Madame Butterfly - i choose Karajan, Pavarotti, Freni , Manon Lescaut for me is Domingo and Caballe and La Fanciulla del west i pick Tebaldi and del Monaco.
It took me decades to appreciate La Boheme, but I finally do. Perhaps you have mentioned this in other videos but there is this theory that the opera is conceptually a four movement symphony.
My ideal list (for studio recordings, I prefer live) would be the Tebaldi/Del Monaco/Molinari-Pradelli Manon Lescaut, the Beecham La bohème, the Rudolf/Steber/Tucker Butterfly, the Callas/De Sabata Tosca, the Capuana/Tebaldi/Del Monaco La fanciulla del West, the Molinari-Pradelli/Moffo La rondine, the old Cetra Il trittico and the Molinari-Pradelli Turandot.
The definite Turandot. David surely forgot about it and it's in stereo too! No other comes close
@@Alex-ze2xt Corelli and Nilsson are just absolutely thrilling.
The Moffo rondine is a great recording and her chi il bel sogno is positively divine. I think Alagna (on the Pappano recording) is better than the Barioni is Moffo, but no one really listens to Rondine for the tenor. We are very much in agreement about fanciulla and Turandot. You can't do a Puccini overview and leave off all the Corelli recordings.
@@djquinn4212 I personally prefer Barioni - and I think it’s sad he didn’t make more recordings - but I can respect your taste. I do, however, think Sereni is far more idiomatic than Rinaldi. I also love Molinari-Pradelli’s approach to teh score. I actually managed to get the original RCA LP two years ago in a local charity shop. Very pleased with that find.
But you’re absolutely right about Corelli. For me, he is the definitive Calaf. I also think Fanciulla just calls for big dramatic voices, which obviously Tebaldi, Del Monaco and MacNeil all had.
@@xxsaruman82xx87 That london/decca Turandot is a great recording, for sure.
On all counts.
For me, having heard both Pavarotti and Corelli in the house in that role, there is just no real contest.
I am very very fond of Pav, but his Calaf next to Corelli was like looking thru binoculars from the wrong end.
Pavarotti was lovely in it. Corelli was magnificent with it. A royal beast.
(just the kind of comments David could care less about. lol.)
I, too, really like Barioni... I never knew what happened, he was so good and then just fell away.
That Moffo set is a gem.
Commercial Fanciullas? Tebaldi, MdM and MacNeil. !!
Thanks for the list. I have Karajan in Boheme, Butterfly, Turandot & Tosca (both recordings) as well as all of Callas's studio Puccini recordings. To supplement I have Barbirolli/Butterfly, Mehta/Turandot and Rescigo/Tosca & Rostropovich/Tosca and Levine/Manon Lescaut. You mentioned most of those so I did pretty good I guess with very little knowledge in the Puccini area. Maybe a couple more from your list and I will call my Puccini collection complete.
I think the Rostropovich tosca is incredibly underrated. No one sings a better Vittoria than Bonisolli. I think the tempi are consistently too slow for me in general, but the singing is fantastic.
@@djquinn4212 I agree! Another terribly underrated Tosca is the Trailescu Electrecord recording with Zeani and Herlea.
If I'm not mistaken, Birgit Nilsson's first complete operatic role on LP was Minnie in La Fanciulla del West with Lovro von Matacic.
These posts are so much fun - so enjoyable. So I may not always agree but that's OK. I was working for the London/Decca distributorship in Miami when the La Boheme and Turandot were released. The Boheme was an instant hit, the singing is incredible, conducting and orchestra - the best. One of the only complaints a customer had/said was Harwood's and Freni's voices were too hard to distinguish. I looked at them and said, you obviously do not know the score! Now when the Turandot was announced, I was concerned since Caballe had already recorded and performed the role onstage. But knowing the size of Dame Joan's voice - I was in a Lucia with her - her voice was really large. And yes she started as a dramatic/Wagnerian soprano. Hubby Richard saved her and gave her a much longer career. But back to Turandot - she is just amazing and yes her diction is wonderful. She claims to have really learned the role to actually perform it but said that Marton was doing it so well she didn't feel the need to compete - or something like that. Which was a shame, because Marton, who was very good at one time, went quickly haywire - the last time I saw her at the MET was in Turnadot and she wasn't good at all. But the Liu was Ruth Ann Swenson - marvelous. Sorry to be so longwinded. Thank you for your posts
Time to do Rossini!!!!!!
Or Donizetti. But he composed around 70 operas...
The issue with Karajan's recordings are his tempi are so meandering & slow that at times that you fear the whole thing is about to stop dead in its tracks.
I like Tebaldi & Bergonzi's La Boheme. Turandot with Sutherland & Pavrotti is without peer. The end of Turandot is always kind of a greatest hits recapitulation but what else can you do?
Did you know what WOODY ALLEN'S favorite Puccini aria was? "OH BAMBINO MIA FARROW" from Gianni Schicchi. You got to think back a few years to get this. What do you call a circular spec on a sightseeing adventure? "A TOURIN' DOT" I'm not much of an opera fan, but I do enjoy listening to CATALANI'S: La Wally and BOITO'S: Mefistofele. Sorry Puccini, you're not on the top of my list. Finally, those two discs of just the music, no singing, are in my collection. Keep 'Em Coming, Dave !!!!
The first time I heard the Callas Tosca, I was in my house doing stuff and I kind of forgot it was on. When Callas screams when Tosca jumps, I ran back into the room thinking a woman was in serious trouble before I realized the situation. She was a very good actress that one.
Boheme: Beecham, De los Angeles, Bjoerling. Overjoyed you chose the Barbirolli Butterfly. IMO Fanciulla's music is more than just interesting; in some ways, better than Turandot. THANK YOU for the shout-out to the Ping, Pang and Pong scene; you are so right. I sort of wish you had a few words about Berio's completion for Turandot. Personally, I like it, if for no other reason than it's not Alfano.
I’m glad you said that about Fanciulla. It’s my favourite Puccini opera. The Act II love duet is gorgeous, especially with the opened cut in the live Mitropoulos version (with Steber and Del Monaco).
Toscanini hated the original Alfano ending to Turandot and cut it drastically. I think there used to be a recording (Gardelli?) that had the whole thing.
My mother's favorite Puccini opera was "Madama Butterfly." I went to the library to see if they had any recordings of it and they had three. So I took them out one at a time. I was only 8 years old. I couldn't take records out with my library card but my Mom would write me a note to give to the librarian with permission to take out a specific recording. I first heard the Callas, Gedda, von Karajan recording. I loved Gedda's voice but was not thrilled with Callas and I thought von Karajan's ending was rushed for a death finale. My father took out the Moffo, Vallenti, Elias recording largely because Leinsdorf was conducting and Leinsdorf was the music director of the Rochester Philharmonic back in my days. Moffo had a nice voice as well as Elias but Vallenti left me cold and uncaring (I wished he was the one who would commit hari-kari at the end). Although Bjorling was the tenor voice of the 50s, de los Angeles was dismal and very two-dimensional for the part. So, on Christmas of 1965, I got a Christmas present from my folks. It was a complete 3 record set of "Madama Butterfly" with a cast to this day I swear was brought together by God and a superb conductor. It's the one and ONLY recording of "Butterfly" I will ever own and it got me bawling at the end. The tempos were perfect all the way through and the ending was as morbid as it should be. Are you ready? Here it is: Leontyne Price, Richard Tucker, Rosalind Elias, and Philip Maero with Erich Leinsdorf and the RCA Italiana Orchestra and Chorus. You even hear the knife drop after Butterfly commits suicide after the bass drum softly booms and the gong sounds a long diminishing forte death knell. You want to see a grown man cry throughout the last quarter of the 3rd Act. Talk about cry me a river I let loose the Hoover Dam! From the beginning of side 1 to the last note of side 6, I felt I was there watching the opera and I was caught up in this tragic love story.
You're not alone. At least one critical overview which I've read on Butterfly recordings singles out Leontyne's as the best.
I always thought Butterfly was complete crap. Then I heard the one you're talking about. Leontyne sent me so much emotion, I teared up like a child. La Price is quite overwhelming. But it is my personal opinion only.
When the role was right for Leontyne, her vocal capabilities allowed her to completely inhabit the character and move the listener to suspend reality and enter that world. Therein, is the magic of great operatic presentations.
No the Leinsdorf is NOT cut in the Ping Pang Pong scene. It is cut in that scene at the MET
Yes, i realized it was the other Nilsson Turandot that's cut. Thanks for the correction.
@@DavesClassicalGuidethat was the first opera I ever saw - a telecast from the Academy of Music in Phila with Nilsson. My pop bought me the Leinsdorf set at Korvettes and i played it into the ground. I still have that album after all these years.
@@randywolfgang4943 And a beautiful performance it is!
Hi David, I've been reading you since many years back at your Classics Today Site. Thank you very much for many great recommendations. Interestingly I agree with many of your choices and preferences among conductors and works. I’ve enjoyed this entrée on Puccini’s operas and I concur with many of the choices. Curiously I have the same problems with Turandot (which as far as I’m concerned it isn’t Puccini’s best opera). Puccini had the capability of composing a comic opera (evidenced by Gianni Schichi) but it seems he didn’t arrive to a final decision with Turandot. What is essentially a fairy tale - comic opera he converted it to a full blown drama unfortunately with cardboard characters. Keep up your great work, thank you very much for so many great moments.
Turandot reduced to a "simpering Wimpette" (!) Now THAT"S funny.
As Anna Russell said of Brunnhilde's "new signature tune"-- So LOVE has certainly taken the ginger out of HER!
David - I could tell you some stranger than fiction Puccini stories .But I will just tell you one for now. Everybody knows Puccini's most famous
aria " Nessun Dorma" from Turandot. BUT there is an even more famous one that very few even know. Yes we know the forerunner to
Nessun Dorma was Dick Johnson's aria Ch'ella mi creda from La fanciulla del West. But his "Quello che tacete" an obscure aria from much
earlier in the opera is heard very often all over the world in a different guise. " The Music of the Night " from Andrew Lloyd Webber's
The Phantom of the Opera.
When I met Puccini's granddaughter at the Puccini's estate in Torre del Largo over 20 years ago .She told me she was suing Lloyd Webbers
for plagiarism over " Quello che tacete." The end result was that it was settled out of court. With the Contessa Simonetta Puccini getting her just
rewards ,for the Puccini estate.
As for Leonard Bernstein and La Boheme. The educational programme that Bernstein did on TV on La Boheme brought many non opera
folk to the melody of Puccini. Also with Carlo Bergonzi playing Rudolfo. And actually Bergonzi's debut at the Met singing Rudolfo
has left us with perhaps the finest live " Che gelida manina ." Which one can find on You Tube.
Manon Lescaut - Caballe Domingo; Boheme - De Los Angeles Bjorling; Tosca - Callas Di Stefano; Butterfly - Price Tucker; Fanciulla - Tebaldi Del Monaco; Rondine - Moffo Barioni; Angelica - Ricciarelli Cossotto; Gianni - Gobbi Cotrubas Domingo; Tabarro - Merrill Tebaldi Del Monaco; Turandot - Sutherland Caballe Pavarotti. There are good alternatives but these are the recordings that come closest to ideal.
Turandotty to her friends
Thoroughly enjoyed this review. And it comes with some memorable gems from the Hurwitz anecdotal treasure chest. The oil stained record, the Jewish grand mother with a passion for Chinese interior design....
Oh to have been at the performance where the firing squad in the last act had not been properly rehearsed shot Tosca rather than Cavaradossi and then jumped off the parapet after her.
This may very well be an urban legend, but one of my favorite Met stories is from the '50's, the night they stacked up one too many mattresses under the parapet to catch the Tosca of the evening, Zinka Milanov. When Zinkanov, as she was affectionately known, flung herself over the edge (she was a large woman) a moment later she bounced back up into full view of the audience. What did she do? Smile and wave, of course.
@@davidblackburn3396 : Your exposè of the Tosca diva ending story is much better than my account. Sorry for not reading yours first ; in that case I would have logically refraining from commenting...
I did hear Eva Turner say the same thing happened to her.
@@colinwrubleski7627 I prefer your urban legend.
In La Fanciulla the American minors say "Do da, do da do da day" and the Aboriginals say "Ugh" (not Ugh Wug) and usually with an Italian accent. I'm pretty sure it's the Italian accent that makes it racist. I mean ethnicist, but the red dashes underneath means that I've either spelled the word wrong or it doesn't exist. If it doesn't, it should as we are all one race or we couldn't interbreed (yet) ;)
Thanks for the fun facts too! I didn't know the guy who wrote. that play also wrote Madame Butterfly. Also: did you know that the OG play Tosca that there were five acts and the last three comport with the three acts of the opera? Tosca was an orphan raised in a convent and sung in the choir where she was discovered to be a great singer even for a girl in a choir. Also in the play, Cavaradossi is related to Voltaire in some way (either a cousin or nephew)
The Sinopoli Manon Lescaut and the Solti La Boheme on RCA were my introduction to Puccini - actually so many great performances...
I think that Freni was the perhaps the perfect Puccini heroine (*Manon?, Mimi, Butterfly, and Liu) even though she never performed Butterfly on stage, her recording is amazing.
But on a personal level, Caballe being my favorite *soprano, her Liu, Tosca, and *Manon are MY very favorite.
Ms. Freni did sing the third act of 'Butterfly' onstage only once at a Met gala in '91 and I was there. I count my blessings.
My ideal list:
Manon Lescaut - Kirsten/Bjorling/Antonicelli & The Met
La Boheme - De Los Angeles/Bjorling/Beecham & RCA
Tosca - Callas/Di Stefano/De Sabata & La Scala
Butterfly - Tebaldi/Campora/Erede & Santa Cecilia
Turandot - Nilsson/Corelli/Mehta & The Met
I absolutely love that you chose some live recordings, and that you chose one of Tebaldi’s earlier recordings. People seem to forget she recorded Tosca, Bohème and Butterfly not once but twice. And Campora was apparently Rudolf Bing’s favourite tenors! All I have to ask is why Il trittico and Fanciulla aren’t there?
Act Four of Manon Lescaut is the one that takes place in the Louisiana desert, not act three. Act three is the port of le havre.
The Sinopoli Manon Lescaut is fine, but I prefer the Kiri TeKanawa recording with Carreras and Chailly, Carreras sings des Grieux better than Domingo, especially in the 4th act where Carreras absolutely nails a thrilling high C and Domingo basically ducks the note. Bjorling and Albanese are glorius as well.
I love the Freni and Pavarotti Boheme, Karajan delivers the greatest accompaniment ever played and the Decca's sound is fantastic. As a tenor who doubles as a percussionist, Pavarotti sings the greatest che gelida manina and Karajan punctuates the High C in the aria with a fabulous timpani roll that no one else does. It's gloriuos.
I love the singing on the Caballe and Carreras recording is glorious but I don't love Davis, I think Price, Domingo and Milnes with Metha is incredibly underrated and the conducting is better than Davis.
Butterfly I agree completely with you.
I think the decca recording of Fanciulla with Tebaldi, Del Monaco, and MacNeil is absolutely fantastic and the singing is just balls to the walls. Del Monaco sings the crap out of it, whereas Domingo w/ Metha is a little too polite.
Trittico, Pappano is great and Shicoff does a great Hai Ben Ragione, and the rest of the set is great, but I like set with Maazel and Scotto, her Suor Angelica is just heartbreaking and Domingo is the tenor in the other two,.
Turandot, sorry, the EMI Nilsson recording is the one to have, Corelli is hands down the best Calaf, and Scotto is a great Liu. The Decca one is a little too polite for me, and Nilsson/Corelli really go at it and it's the absolute best in can belto!
Another word about the Karajan Turandot on DG, it has one of the worst splice jobs in all of recording before Domingo takes the interpolated high C in the riddle scene.
The worse splice job of all is Domingo’s (obviously fake) High C in ‘O mio rimorso’ on the Kleiber Traviata recording, lmao.
Whoops. You see, Act IV is so short I forgot it was Act IV!
@@DavesClassicalGuide I’d just like to take the chance to thank you for your channel and all the videos you put out. They’re all really informative and fun to watch. Thank you.
@@xxsaruman82xx87 It's my pleasure. Thank you for watching!
@@DavesClassicalGuide As a young person interested in classical music, it’s so nice to be able to listen to someone who has a lifetime of knowledge that they are so willing to share. The internet can be a truly wonderful thing. Once again, thank you.
Interesting mixture here. As for Turandot finales, I think increasingly the best thing to do is what Toscanini did at the prem - stop at the death of Liù and be done. But the best alternative is to use Alfano's first ending - quite different and incomparably more interesting as music than the much shortened and over-simplified revision that he did at Toscanini's insistence. It's on the Josephine Barstow operatic finales disc on Decca with Mauceri and for my money it's a winner, unlike the usual one, or the abysmal Berio. Can't argue with your choice of the Mehta Turandot, or the Karajan Boheme, (though Serafin, Solti and Chailly all have their great moments too) or the gorgeous Barbirolli Butterfly. But Colin Davis's Tosca? Not for me - not when Karajan/Price is there (in decent sound too) or Callas/de Sabata (in spite of the sound). Next to them I find Davis extremely tame. Also, a few words in praise of the Nilsson/Matacic Fanciulla which I think is a tremendous performance (and one I slightly prefer to Mehta) as well as being an opera with a lot of really wonderful music.
Agreement is fun, so I really appreciate your comments.
Puccini is well served on recordings and we all have our fave singers etc so the fact that 'my' Bohème or whichever was not David's first choice is no big deal.
But that Tosca? ouch. Not for me, either. Dry conducting, over parted tenor and Wixell, who was lovely in person, just did not record well, the mics never caught his warmth. Gotta say I was surprised there.
WHEREAS Price, at that point in her career, HVK and Taddei, even Corena, are so on fire - with very good sound and a great orchestra. again, imo.
(I love Rondine.) Anna Moffo !
@@artistsf1 Totally agree about that Tosca. And about Karajan’s (though I prefer the De Sabata recording). And, yes, Viva Moffo!
Totally agree about Tosca. Callas and De Sabata for me anytime. Besides, I much prefer Caballé’s bel canto roles to her verismo ones.
I've read that a few opera companies have recently used a modified Alfano 1 ending; unfortunately none are on disk that I know of. I much prefer it to Alfano 2 that Toscanini pushed through. Any of the other more modern completions are completely unlistenable by me.
A Puccini opera unlike any of the others remains IL TABARRO. In local color & its attempt at real, even non-musical sound effects, & a more vivid authentic verismo atmosphere, makes it virtually stand alone among Puccini works. Luigi’s big scene & also one alone with Giorgetta, the pitiful attempts of Michele to attempt at a kind of understanding & reconciliation with Giorgetta + Michele’s terrifying aria & spine chilling spoken (with the right baritone!) SQUALDRINA & frightening final scene, all these are elements that make IL TABARRO unique among Puccini’s dramas as does Gianni Schicchi which is his only satirical comedy. I only point all this out since the commentary above basically ignores IL TABARRO as well the Verdi Opera remarks elsewhere from Mr. Hurwitz.
My ideal list is : Tosca/Callas or Olivero; Bohème/Freni or De los Angeles; Madame Butterfly/Tebaldi; Turandot/Caballe; Manon Lescaut/ Scotto ; Fanciulla del west/Tebaldi; Trittico as you wish, there are plenty good out there!
Have you heard the mono Cetra Il trittico? If you haven’t it’s really very good.
@@xxsaruman82xx87
Agree with you, it's very good!
@@michelangelomulieri5134 Petrella and Reali in Il tabarro - wow, just wow!
I love your ending. But how about this for topical: The Princess is impeached and two angry mobs strangle each other. The orchestra blares away to a cloud of tear gas and the audience runs screaming from the theater. Enough drama for you? The end.
That could only happen in Washington D.C.; aa an appropriate venue.
@@brucknerian9664 😵 Your bad my friend. 🇫🇷🍷 Arnold Bourbon Amaral
The contrarion/curmudgeon opera hill on which I'm prepared to die is that Boheme would emerge a far greater work it just stopped at the end of Act III.
But then I wouldn’t have the tape of my mum singing ‘Sono andati’ 😥
No way! It will also leave out the "Veccia zimarra, senti" which is beautiful (check out great James Morris performance)
Act IV is chalk-full of great tunes. Not, to my mind, relevant.
You say Puccini tortured young women, but he wrote music to their plight. Do you actually think he wrote Sour Angelica because he thought she was sour? (I know, terrible joke) so I'll try again: Did you actually think Puccini approved or what the Catholic church did to women who got pregnant out of wedlock? I found Sour Angelica dry the 1st time I listened to it. The 2nd time I watched a new production from Live at the Met from 2006 or 2007 and became a newly sold lover of Sour Angelica; the last ten minutes are the hardest thing tot cry to.
Also: Did you know that when approached to write music for Liliom, Puccini said (And I'm obviously paraphrasing) "I won't touch that subject with a 10 foot pole!", which is why Richard Rogers had the opportunity to write his best musical (some call it the closest thing Richard Rogers wrote to being an opera) with his his art partner Oscar Hammerstein II in 1944.
I had no Idea Turandot was supposed to be a comedy! I can tell you that Puccini was alway trying to reveal how young women get tortured unfairly, so he had a problem making Turandot; a woman Calaf needed to win despite having Liu that loved him and moreover how cruel and horrible Turandot was. Even though it's fiction, Turandot killed Puccini in a similar way Disney killed Jim Henson; he couldn't live with himself knowing he's selling out; that Turandot should NOT be considered a prize; she's a cruel person who killed many men and tortured Liu so badly Liu had to kill herself. That was NEVER anything Puccini ever did in all the operas he wrote before Turandot. Also: the last measures Puccini wrote don't just have piccolo in them, there's also the very low bass instruments that moves in opposite direction, ending in a universe of depth within which the dying (Puccini) imagine they're shoving off to during the very last days of contemplation and life. If I listen to more than the 1st act, of Turandot, "where Puccini died" is the next place where I usually stop listening to the rest of Turandot.
I love your pick for La Boheme and Turandot so I'll listen to your other picks (I'm familiar with the mono 1953 Tosca w De Sabata Callas Di Stefano and Gobbi). Thanks for posting!
Choosing an ideal list of Puccini operas is totally subjective, of course, and depends on how much one likes or dislikes the singers. What is interesting to me is that all these choices except two would also be my first choices. So, being totally subjective, I am going to disagree on two. I never warmed to Caballe. She always sounds rather matronly, and (whisper it) often sings flat. Having said that, her Liu is beautiful. Scotto, so good in much else, sounds too mature for Butterfly (to me anyway) and the voice is not at its steadiest. I'd go with Freni for Karajan. By the way, I have two terrific recordings of La Rondine, which I think is rather under-rated. But of course, I'm being subjective.
Which recordings of La rondine do you have?
@@xxsaruman82xx87 Pappano's, which includes some 'out-takes', and a lovely older recording conducted by Maazel, with Te Kanawa and Domingo.
@@2906nico I have an even older RCA recording from the ‘60s with Anna Moffo. My parents own the Maazel recording, but I so adore Moffo’s Magda and Molinari-Pradelli’s conducting on the old RCA recording. It’s divine.
@@xxsaruman82xx87 Moffo when she could still sing?
@@xxsaruman82xx87 DIVINE !
I'll have my go at this:
Manon Lescaut: Freni, Pavarotti; Levine
La Boheme: Freni, Pavarotti; Karajan
Tosca: Callas, Di Stefano; Sabata
Madama Butterfly: Scotto, Bergonzi; Barbirolli
La Fanciulla del West: Tebaldi, Del Monaco; Capuana
Il Trittico: Gardelli
Turandot: Nilsson, Corelli; Molinari-Pradelli
For completeness sake:
Le Villi: Maliponte, Morell; Guadagno
Edgar: Bergonzi, Scotto; Queler
La Rondine: Moffo, Barioni; Molinari-Pradelli
I heartily approve, especially of your chosen Tosca, Fanciulla, Trittico, Turandot and La rondine. Moffo on the La rondine recording is just gorgeous.
My list of Puccini's best opera recordings:
LA BOHÈME
Karajan 1972
TOSCA
Karajan 1962 & Prêtre 1965 & Mehta 1972
MADAMA BUTTERFLY
Leinsdorf 1962 & Barbirolli 1966 & Karajan 1974
IL TABARRO
Leinsdorf 1971
What about the Gardelli Il tabarro or the De Sabata Tosca?
@@xxsaruman82xx87My problem with De Sabata's "Tosca" are his dried orchestral sound and the volatile tempi in the second act.
In "Il tabarro" conducted by Gardelli I miss the thrilling atmosphere, and Tebaldi is miscasted.
@@ciclostilato3037 Those are some fair criticisms. I do agree that Leinsdorf is the greater conductor (than Gardelli), but I think the voices on the Gardelli are much more suited to their respective roles. If Tebaldi is miscast, which she probably was, then Price is even more miscast. My favourite Giorgetta is Clara Petrella. She is just perfect in the role.
In Tosca, though, Di Stefano is far more involved and passionate than Bergonzi (though I like both), and both Callas and Gobbi are in much better voice, though no less involved, on the De Sabata recording.
@@xxsaruman82xx87 I don't think that Price is miscast, because I feel this strange and unfilfilled eroticism in her voice.
In Prêtre's "Tosca" I love Bergonzi's second act, so moving!
@@ciclostilato3037 What I meant was that Price’s voice is really too light for Giorgetta. Price is a lyric, and Giorgetta is a role that really requires a spinto or dramatic voice to truly do it justice. That’s why I favour Petrella, and also because she was an utterly convincing dramatic actress.
I love Bergonzi too, but I just adore Pippo’s voice and animal passion he brings to the role.