Why Were the Soviets so Cruel in East Prussia during World War II?
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- čas přidán 11. 09. 2024
- During the Soviet conquest of East Prussia the Red Army behaved very cruel towards the German civilians. Soviet authors Vasily Grossman, Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn and Ilya Ehrenburg wrote about it.
History Hustle presents: Why Were the Soviets so Cruel in East Prussia during World War II?
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Recorded in July 2020 in Elbląg, Poland.
SOURCE
The Death of East Prussia. War and Revenge in Germany's Easternmost Province (Peter B. Clark).
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Images from commons.wikimedia.org and my own.
VIDEO
Video material from • Russian veteran recall...
Russian veteran recalls their crimes in Germany
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Learn more about the last campaigns of the Eastern Front (1944-1945):
czcams.com/video/dhZtaFSxoEk/video.html
thanks for this. I now have a timeline for my letters.
all politics and wars are control by hell the their agents create and control the ideology to create war
@@tomhirons7475 Great!
@@HistoryHustle if you know what units where around Wislinka poland would be great. When i get letters out i think he has his unit etc on letters , be great to have you on board for this if you want. i can even take pics and email you each letter as i look and maybe you could help me ?, and get a diary of his movements made etc ?.
@@tomhirons7475 E-mail can be found below each video.
The Germans were totally aware that the Russian reprisal would be brutal. The eastern front vs the western was like two different wars.
I wouldn't say two different wars but the differences were huge.
Yes. That is why the German soldiers continued to fight. To stop the Soviets from pillaging Germany or at the very least give the civilians time to escape.
@@Pikkabuu you are so right, the end separated the good and the evil.
As I tell my students "Go from the United States towards Germany in World War 2, it was a gentleman's war. You go from Germany east into Asia and back towards the United States it was animalistic."
@@Pikkabuu -- Yes . . . time to escape moral responsibility for the SS Holocaust in the USSR. Oh my. So . . . the excuse is: "The Nazis were bad, but the Sovs were worse?" Sure. Now, try that Nazi excuse outside of CZcams and Wikipedia, and figure out why decent people ignore you.
Such a horrible war. My father managed to flee with his parents from East Prussia in the winter 1944/45 just in time before the Soviets cut the last escape routes leading West. But several other family members died sometime during the assault of Königsberg.
Let's hope a war like this will never happen again.
Indeed. Thanks for sharing. What did your father tell you about his experiences while fleeing East Prussia?
@@HistoryHustle He does not remember much of it since he was only 3 years old at the time.
I understand. Thanks for your reply.
A large war between world super powers like the world wars will never happen again because of nuclear deterrent. I also don't think you could get away with the atrocities committed by both sides with today's technology.
noboy knows and never will be known , haw many germans died in east prusia , Pomerania ,Silesia and Checoslovakia , where more than 22 million germans were living for centruries ,
not even half of them made it back to central germany as refugees . However the historiams keep on saying tjat just one million german civilians died in ww2
Damn... “Why did the Germans who had so much, attack us who had so little?” Very painful words to hear...
yes...
Greed of the western nations.
They wanted the land these people lived on.
Mad Max stfu
because they stole everything from invaded countires. even light bulbs were send to berlin
World War 3 will not be fought with Nukes or superweapons, but in this comment section -albert einstein
lol
@@HistoryHustle Yoooo I like ur vids man
We are fighting in nukes Indo China clash 😆 still many soldiers died 🗿 . No arms zone
A very quaint comment on comments ! ! I hope common sense emerges finally !
When love becomes the deepest pain, hate becomes survival; then the blackness of the abyss stares back into your soul eventualy. All life becomes worthless, meaningless. War is truly horror.
yes, imagine a Red Army who lost his loved ones, participated in battle of Kursk, saw all the slaughter, and later saw all the suffering in Ukraine/Belarus as he as moving into Prussia. He would have PTSD lvl80, there would be very little nice or human about this damaged person.
@Fabian Kirchgessner Wrong, many (psychological) studies have shown that (a large part of) people that have endured abuse tend to abuse others later in life. The simplest example is children who are beaten by their parents whilst growing up, in a part of them it'll distill in them a feeling that they'll never treat their kids like that and almost overcompensate with love, however a large part ends up hitting their own kids.
Same goes for victims of sudden and useless violence or children that are abused, part will stay in victimhood, part will grow over it and develop 'normally' but there's also a group that starts to display the same behaviour as the ones that enacted the violence/abuse upon them.
So I don't know what psychological point of view you were referring to, but it isn't any point of view accepted by the scientific community.
Also "concentration camps didnt go around raping woman and brutalizing civilians, so apparently it was possible" what are you trying to say with this? If you try to argue that soldiers that saw the victims of the concentration camps didn't feel anger towards the germans you're very wrong, even a lot of allied soldiers were more inclined to kill germans instead of taking them captive after witnessing the camps.
@Fabian Kirchgessner you say 'fact' but don't produce any evidence. I gave you evidence that some people can and will 'normally' became more abusive after abuse, a REAL fact that is supported by the scientific community and is well known amongst psychologists(some might even call it general knowledge and it is something that'll be taught to you within the first 2 years of psychology at most universities). I don't know where you got your information, but it was no good source, I can tell you that.
"concentration camp internees didnt go rampage the country side" No, ofcourse not(speaking in general), because most(on both the allied and the soviet side) were to weak to even walk properly, a lot of them were even to weak to properly digest food and died because they ate a few mouthfulls. They never could've rampaged the countryside because it was physically impossible for most them to do so. However a number of those that were still capable of functioning somewhat normally did commit atrocities towards germans once they were released from their concentration camps(especially in germany itself were they rampaged through neighbouring towns and exacted revenge upon civilians who must have known of the camps). Are you even aware there were whole organisations of holocaust survivors that executed revenge killings and trials(like Nakam)? Now that we got that fallacy out of the way.
"the western allies did nothing comparable to what the Soviets did" Just to be clear, we're talking about both civilians and soldiers now just as you insinuate with that sentence. Some did actually but yes it was smaller is scale in the west and more often punished. Guess what was also smaller in scale, the sufferering endured in the occupied countries in the west and the atrocities on the front. Most soldiers in the western countries were no witness to a slaughter and rape that was normal in the east. It is a natural consequence that soviet soldiers were more ferocious and barbaric because the germans were(compared to their treatment of western countries). Hate creates hate and if you've seen thousands of villages completely devasted and thousands of innocent civilians killed in your country, you're not going to spare the countries that inflicted it.
@Fabian Kirchgessner Many women beaten by their husbands become violent mothers, including my own grand'ma. The guys in death camps were too weak and too psychologically challenged to find the strenght for revenge and they were taken right away in refugee camps with good care... But have you ever thought why Israel is so abusive towards Palestinians?
@Fabian Kirchgessner You have no idea how wrong you are. For example, victims of domestic violence often become abusers wether they were the lover or a child. The younger you were the greater the chance you start to display some abusive behaviour later in life, it's a cycle.
The most depressing fact is that the people who suffered the most were the native Prussian Lithuanians who had their entire culture and history wiped from the map over a war they wanted nothing to do with.
Thanks for sharing.
why were all the german armies in the eastern front trying so hard to avoid surrendering to the russians in late 1944-1945......they feared revenge for the atrocities they had committed to the russian civilans and Pows after operation barbarossa....I am reading about this in the diary of a 15 year old russian boy in Ukraine from 1942-1945..(Victims,Victors by R Breshnoy).
@Stxr KillerX Say no to drugs.
@Stxr KillerX say no to drugs
@Stxr KillerX I mean the Nazis had plans to commit a genocide of the Slavic peoples if they won the war but keep on defending genocidal maniacs if you want.
Interesting. The Soviets also did commit atrocities in other countries.
@@HistoryHustle Remind you how your American soldiers behaved in Europe in 1944-1945? Or would you prefer to delete my comment again?
One of the best insights of what really happened in the war between the Slavs and the Germans I've heard so far. It's often said that for a man to make atrocities to another he has to see him as lesser than a human and more as a beast.
Thanks for replying!
Violence causes more violence. We, as a modern society, must take note from this. Thank you for the video...
Thanks you for your response.
"Violence causes more violence" say that too our politicians , they order our soldiers to kill people in countrys far away from our borders, Afghanistan, Syria, lybia, irak;Mali ect....... messing up whole regions.
Now its payback time(so called terrorist attacks) inside EU countrys and i cant blame this folks for doing this, because we started it by invading their countrys, destroying their cultures and living style and messing up whole countrys for what for oil, for ressources, for exploiting their countrys, for dominance/influence and because that a few rich people can be richer in future.
@Mazdina Hero What is wrong mister "Blockwart" do you know that we have freedom of speech specially in my country germany. Where are you from, Poland or Hungary it wouldnt surprise me.
Do you know the Phrase "cause and effect", i grow up in cold war years volunteered for my countrys military because NATO was back then a defensive Treaty organisation , now iam ashamed that my own country doing what the Nazis did, invading other countrys, thats not right .
Iam sure i know what type of person u are ;)
@Mazdina Hero Es geht nicht um Karrikaturen ich habe mich auf die Kriege bezogen die wir heutzutage in fremden Ländern führen die weit entfernt unserer Grenzen sind, es geht um Ursache und Wirkung und das man sich nicht wundern muss wenn man in fremde Länder mit Waffengewalt einmarschiert, die Zivilbevölkerung tötet (colateralschäden) das dann irgendwann pay back time ist und man somit die eigene Bevölkerung gefährdet.
Bleibt man mit seinem A... zuhause ist alles ok, ich würde mir nicht wagen in fremde Länder zu gehen und alles von unten nach oben zu kehren und dort Tot und verderben zu bringen.
Ich mache auch keine Karrikaturen weder über Jesus noch über Mohamed oder Buddha, ich respektiere andere Religionen wenn sie mich denn in frieden lassen und nicht zwangsbekehren wollen und mache mich nicht über sie lustig oder ziehe sie in den Dreck.
Nach den Mohamedkarrikaturen damals haben einige aus der linken Ecke schnell aufgezeigt wie einseitig Meinungsfreiheit sein kann, haben sich in einer Aufführung oder einer Zeitung ( weiss nicht mehr obs Titanic war ) über Jesus und Maria lustig gemacht, gleich war das Geschrei gross aus der bayrischen Ecke und Politiker forderten Gesetze gegen sowas einzuführen die religiösen gefühle Gläubiger Christen zu beleidigen sei keine meinungsfreiheit, aha was ne seltsame Sichtweise, es ist ok wenns den Islam betrifft aber wenns die eigene religion betrifft braucht es Gesetze dagegen, das ist auf einem Auge blind sein und schwarz und weiss denken .
Ich erinnere mich noch sehr gut an dieses Ereignis und die Reaktionen bayrischer politiker
Zu Macron , der herr schickt seine Soldaten in alle Welt um Unruhe in anderen Ländern zu stiften derzeit unterstützt er in Lybien die Gegner der von der UN anerkannten Regierung um Vorteile für Frankreich rauszuschlagen und ist somit verantwortlich für die verlängerung des leidens der Zivilbevölkerung und die verlängerung des Krieges.
@Mazdina Hero Natürlich spreche ich deutsch ist meine Muttersprache.
Western POW's in Poland were marched west. The Red army POW's were just murdered. My father saw their bodies by the hundreds along these roads which the Red army would soon use during their advance. The Territories that now form Germany had a larger Germanic population after the war than when it saturated due to the expulsion of the ethnic German populations of the territories nations under Red army control.
@@rosesprog1722 2million is the estimated maximum number of POW's in the camps. Historians estimate the maximum number deaths at just over 10 thousand. Still a tragedy. Unfortunately there wasn't enough food in Europe. That years harvests had been destroyed as armies fought over them during the normal harvest time
@Roses & Prog: about the Rhine Meadows camp not 1,7 million died but were interned. Around 3,000 ~ 6,000 died, mostly due to the fact that they were already underfed and weak.
@@HistoryHustle Actually the story that 2 millions German POWs perished in the Rhine Meadows camps is a staple of Russian propaganda to spread anti-american and anti-western hatred (also hatred of the Jews) among the German population. On certain sites the comment sections are full of undercover Russian bots/trolls talking about it on a daily basis. They are caricatures of German nationalists but it still works too often and it's extremely dangerous for the future of the country. I think the number is close to the number of German POWs who were deported to labor camps in Siberia or killed directly by the Red Army, so they blame the Americans.
@@binaway in German prison was 4 million red army soldiers, but from that prison return only 2 million, because 2 million of them was killed in German concentration camps
The more you learn, the more the line between right or wrong blurs.
Agree.
And eventually you realize the victors wrote the history books and the good guys lost.
Peach Nehi you know that “the history books” regarding German military action (especially on the Easter front) after the war were basically written entirely by former German officers right?
Speak for yourself.
@@peachnehi8683 The good guys lost? The guys with the death camps? Neither side was perfect but what kind of take is that. The nature of nations states is that they are much like people, complex and capable of acts of great bravery and heroism, but also treachery and cruelty.
all of East Prussia was beautiful,you can still see remnants of Jugendstil on the facades of manors in some of the coastal towns
Yes. There is still some left. In Elblag there are buildings. But also Olsztyn (Allenstein) and Ketrzyn (Rastenburg) are in fairly good shape.
All of East Prussia still is beautiful despite the mess done to it by the National Socialists and the Bolsheviks.
@@VanlifewithAlan Yeah and Hamburg and Dresden had a good taste of capitalism, not to mention all the Japanese cities.
Warsaw was beautiful too called Paris of the East in 1944 germans destroyed building by building and flattened the city just before eyes of advancing Russians
@Fabian Kirchgessner That is blatantly false, they had good tactical and geopolitical reasons to halt the advance in the center, the "purposeful hold" is a false myth propagated by western propaganda.
Not defending the wrong here, but if looked on within a context of what happened during WW2 as a whole, the behavior of Soviet soldiers in East Prussia was just one part of the horrors of that war. Was allied bombings of German cities killing hundreds of thousands of civilians better than this?
The Germans got everything they deserved including the bombing raids they chose the aggressor role. They could have let the Western Allies to advance so the USSR forces could not have advanced. They chose not to when they knew the war lost.
@@shaunryan6 if u know history u know its all alíes fault to start with
@@youtubefanbot6997 Of course it was I remember the the British invading Poland cos I knows history jus like yoo
@@shaunryan6 i remember uk declaring war at Germany when Germany only wanted Danzig cuz they lost it in treaty of Versailles
@@youtubefanbot6997 Wrong, the Germans colluded with the Russians to partition Poland between themselves, Dazig was just part of it.
This is so interesting to me, as my grandfather Egon Boettcher was a german soldier, who has no known grave, was killed it says in a place called Wislinka near Gdansk 6th march 1945. He was 24. I have all his letters he sent to my great grandmother, and must get them translated into english, thx .
any more information would really help solve the puzzle .
@@tomhirons7475 I have a similar story with my great grandfather who died in Silesia in 1945 and was never found
@@Bartdu59Gaming it an everlong unknowing question we have.
@@tomhirons7475 Thanks for sharing Tom.
@Tom Hirons
It's interesting that you mentioned your grandfather's letters. Please get them translated. I just finished reading "A stranger to myself. The inhumanity of war. Russia, 1941-1944" by Willy Peter Reese, a 23 years old German soldier who perished on Eastern front in 1944. His letters and diaries were kept in the family, and were discovered by a historian in 2002. He had them translated in English, and, boy, I read the book in one sitting!
My great grandma has hanged herself when germans occupied her village in ukraine, you can imagine why.
Both her husband and two sons were in the army at that time. Only one son survived though.
Sorry to hear that.
We feel your sorrow.
Was she afraid of the curches re-opening?
@@qanon7958 no, but i hope you is my lost brother if you know what i mean.
@@qanon7958 That joke was so bad, it became funny, lol.
Germany: *attempts to genocide the Soviet Union*
Soviet Union *reverse uno card*
That's were it partially came down to..
Two wrong is not a right
Soviets didnt trying genocide the Germans, all due respect or disrespects.
The Germans were welcomed in some parts of Russia, after Stalin's purges, etc , and instead of using this to their advantage, they chose annihilation, which was eventually reciprocated, unsurprisingly!
I know this ain't going to go over very good but actually the mass killings that where going on under Stalin ended when the Germans rolled in they did treat the Russians as inferiors but this idea that the Germans where mass slaughtering the Russians in general is basically a communist fairytale.
The Russians killed about 20 million Russian and East Europeans Asians to in non war related killings during the war.
Of course everything is blamed on the Germans who committed atrocities but nothing as bad as Stalin's boys.
Under Stalin tens of millions where killed before and after the war all throughout his regime.
Read a chapter called the Doomed out of Gulag Archipelago by Alexander Solzhenitsyn it is pretty accurate not popular but accurate.
The Red Army brutal everywhere the worst in Russia. Dale
Russians also served for the Germans. More on that in this video:
czcams.com/video/cKpj786Sorc/video.html
@@dalesteffens6769 To call the rape and pillaging of Slavic civilians “A fairy tale” is ridiculous, the Slavs were seen as an entirely different race and were thought of as subpar to the Anglo’s. It’s well known that the places that did open their arms up to the Nazis were indiscriminately scorched too, the only reason the soviets were so bad was because of their mistreatment. Stalin’s body count also wasn’t due to his men going around slaughtering civilians, it’s as high as it is due to famine, the civilians sent to gulags didn’t die from directly being targeted, they just became victims of Stalin’s madness.
This is a clearly biased opinion that’s not even historically accurate, you’ve just made the Nazi invasion of the east seem menial to fit your own narrative. I’m not going to excuse the soviets for anything, but to excuse the nazis and to try paint them in a good light is just moronic.
@@maxpayneful4328 you just found a Wehraboo 😂
@@Kbuildsmodels_24 Yeah it’s like a creature, I must study 😂 seriously though how stupid can one be, I never even knew what Wehraboo is until now (thanks for that) and now it’s going to great use on Reddit against edge lords lmao.
in some eastern prairies of Kaliningrad,all that remains of certain hamlets and settlements are brick chimneys
I've seen pictures of this yes.
You forgot to mentioned the heavy bombardment on Konigsberg by Brits....with huge damage on all structures
I am surprised the USSR did not sow the lands with salt and do a whole Romans to Carthage number on E Prussia
@@brankoknap4438 Good!
@@ralphvon283 I for one am sorry that Germany was ever rebuilt.
Now it's their land, their blood
- Viktor Reznov
CoD, I see..
Reznov is still pretty damn humane compare to the rest of the Red Army, at least he prefer his enemies to die quick.
@@biocaster777 20 milions of Soviet civilians were murdered by Germans during the invasion. One even single milion of German civilians died.
@Fabian Kirchgessner Nope 20 milions of civilians died and seven and half milions of soldiers.
@Fabian Kirchgessner Im talking only about civilian casualties.
Also 3,5 milion of Soviet soldiers were starved to death or gassed in gass chambers or burnt alive.
First Zyklone agent was tested on Soviet soldiers captured in 1941.
Germans did have child concentracion camp for Russian and Belarusian children who were used for medical experiments also as they were bleed out for purpose as donors of blood to German soldiers.
If Soviets would behave at least half bad as Germans, there would be no Germans today.
I think another factor adding to the Soviet soldier cruelty would be many of these people developing mental health conditions. My understanding is these soldiers were thrown into battle after battle for months if not years. Living in unimaginably bad conditions, witnessing the worst images of war, constantly being one step away from death. No man can endure that for too long.
Indeed, thanks for the additional insights.
Actually average number of combat days per soldier per year was about 40 days, where as number of combat days in vietnam was 240 per year
@Patricia Doran manouvering into positions and being rotated in and out of front line is not the same as being directly in combat. If you ever served and been involved in large scale operations you would know that short period of frantic activity follow long periods of waiting for something to happen. The old hurry up and wait scenario. I did look this up actually and the key operative word is average. Also shooting at civilians, burning villages and raping women is not included as part of being in combat. If you have any other evidence you can provide i would be most appreciative
@Patricia Doran thanks so much for that, and yes you would expect the Germans to be very accurate, but then again war is a messy business and its often hard to work out what the truth is. Recently i read a book about september 39 campaign and one of the polish veterans remembers German planes flying overhead constantly and him and his unit never been able to actually find the Germans as by the time they manouvered into position the frontline has already moved on and everyone had left for another location, as a result of which he never actually fired his weapon during that campaign. I thought that was an interesting insight into how the war was fought
Germany: Attacks the USSR in a bid to exterminate the entire population
USSR: retaliates and does the same
Germany: Surprised Pikachu face
Western historians: Lets talk about why the Soviet Union was the most evil thing in history
*Germany: Surprised Pikachu face*
Nope, the Germans weren't at all surprised. They expected revenge.
*Western historians: Lets talk about why the Soviet Union was the most evil thing in history*
Nope, there are many Western historians elaborate on the German crimes. Read OSTKRIEG or RUSSIA'S WAR or Beevor's THE SECOND WORLD WAR.
Vendetta. Excellent information and thanks for shedding light on this taboo subject. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks. I think you will like the next episode (this Wednesday) also. It's about the same theme.
Atrocities were committed on both sides. However, the Germans that were caught were tried and convicted of war crimes, whilst the Soviets got away with it.
True.
It’s not a war crime if you win 😒
Well if your enemy want to annihilate you with no pity, revenge is sweet I guess.
History is written by the winners, so Bolshevik atrocities were patently ignored or revised. Like Katyn.
@@astralplainer не акцентируйте только на большевиках. Союзники не лучше. Сравните хотя бы Дрезден с Катынью просто небо и земля
When a war starts, nobody know how long it lasts and what happens. Germans knew what they did to Russians, an equal reaction, no a revenge, is expected.
My father lost his first family ,wife.. daughter 3 years old
Together with other villagers were locked in wooden barns
and burned alive.
My auntis ...16 and 17 years old grab younger brother
and run thru the field while Germans shut toward them.
Escaped.... join the Red Army...
After war father get married again...
But never forget that what happened with his wife and kid..
Nobody alive ...any longer.
Only in my memories....on different Planet in New York..
P.S. Shmidt my you tube Nick name..
I'm Potapov.
@@nikolaipotapenkov8823 мало им еще выдали,этим немцам тогда.
Of course because the Soviets were just as monstrous as the Nazis. Just less refined in their wanton slaughter
@@CedarHunt heh laughs in allies
i think we should not forget the fact that most civilians did not really want to be part of the nazis, they just were and they had to be, if they resisted they would be shot and killed. so we also have to take into account the german families that died, ww2 is a sad thing to talk about
Just as soon as I thought I ran out of great WW2 channels I find this gem of a channel. You got yourself a new fan!
Great to hear, Kevin. Welcome to the channel!
It's hard to blame Soviets, they suffered much more because of German agression.
Totally agree with that. But crime don't justifie crime.
@@TheBelamar Aggressor has no victims, nor can a crime be committed against them.
The Soviets indeed suffered more.
@@HistoryHustle While i agree the Soviets suffered more. it is Notable that the Soviets were especially cruel when rape was concerned. Rape in the German army was forbidden and could even lead to court martial or execution. This was not the case in the Red Army.
@@weaponizedautism6589 Is rape more hurtful than extermination of whole families?
Because once the Soviet soldiers realised what the Nazis had done to them. They intended to match the German forces behaviour.
Expect they didn't match since in the end the Soviets didn't came close to the amount of atrocities committed bt the Germans.
@Fabian Kirchgessner ah shut up wehraboo ,pathetic attempts !
@@HistoryHustle i Mean the soviet union just like the Nazi germany had concentration camps..
@@zejdland you mean gulags? Gulags were just cheaper prisons, and I actually agree with the idea of them, probably because in Brazil(my country) prisons are a fucking joke, you go there, get a roof over your head, 3 meals a day, and get to do nothing the entire day( unlinke in the u.s were prisoners work) which is bullshit, a prison should be a place we’re this person, which committed a crime and thus harmed society, should work to pay up for what they did, and that’s exactly what gulags did, they were usually mines, were the prisoners would work for free to the state(and the state would invest most of its money on public programs, such as funding health care, schools, etc)
Words like prison camps(like gulags), rogue state, and death squads and just twisted ways to say prisons, country and army, the media just twists it to make it look like more of a big deal.
Also, granted that they were a bit more fucked up during the purges(~1937) but they were always almost the same as prisons, in countries like the U.S. because prisons and gulags were made so the criminals could contribute to society in a forced way, except that the Soviets were harsher on the prisoners, while concentration camps were made with the sole purpose of elimination of certain groups of people.(Slavs, Jews, homosexuals)
So don’t compare them, that just makes me age faster. My life is already sad enough.
Thank you, ya cutie have a good day
@@JoaoOstroski420 On my mother side they send half of her family to gulags because they were Polish and nearly everyone died.... go to Moscow and start telling people u agree with gulag u would get ur head chopped off many of russians have relatives who died in gulag who basically did nothing wrong
Thanks a lot for this video. It remembered me an old man of my village.
I am in my 50's. When I was young there were still a lot of people who had lived during the wWII and we were still under the treath of a possible war with Warsaw pact. I lived on the "taalgrens" (the border of the languages in Brabant), it is imortant for what will follow. An old man made us play football and he was a former soldier and POW. He spoke often about war and his time as POW in Germany. He told a lot. One day after a football match, he gave us orange juices and he spoke us about the day he got his freedom from Russians hands. The first thing he made was to make us swear, young people of the village, that we will never be POW of the red army. This man was a POW of the Germans and was liberated by the Russians. Usually very talkative about his war's memories, he explained only three things : allied POW had to take off their ring and hide it or better drop it off because the Russians cut their finger(s) to take the ring(s), The Russian gave them weapons in order to kill their German guards (few did it) and even to kill German civilians (nobody did it amongst the Western POW), they saw horrible things against both civilians and soldiers (he did not tell more).
He never said what he saw in Prussia but he made us swear we will fight to death against the red army if there was a war. He told us never surrender, better dead than alive in the hand of red army. This guy did not like the Germans. In Belgium, after the campaign of 1940, the French speaking soldiers were POW and a lot of Dutch speaking soldiers can go back at home. In my village, before the 70's everybody spoke both French (and Waloon a dialect) and Dutch (and "Hals" a Dutch dialect of Brabant). Now it is only French. So most of the Walloons of my village, like my two Grandfathers, can come back at home because they said they were Flemish Brabanders. The Germans did not check accurately. You speak Flemish/Dutch it was oK : you can go back at home. When the Germans asked this man, praat U Vlaams (Do you speak flemish), he answered Non dji n'tchaffe qu'in Wallon (Dialect = No I only speak Walloon) and translated in German immediately Nein ich spreche nur Wallonisch. ))))). A German officer can not understand our humor of Walloon Brabanders. He paid his irony by five hard years as POW. He really disliked the Germans. Each time he told us stories about WWII, he criticized the Germans or laughed about their defeat. So if he felt compassion for German civilians and asked us to never felt alive in the hands of red army it means a lot. What he saw and did not tell must be really horrible. I was around 14 but his voice and his eyes were so "special" (I can not find the words) when he told us to never be POW of the Russians that I convinced myself that I would never surrender to Russians. Fortunately in1989 a possible war with Russia and the Warsaw pact was over.
He was in Stammlager 1A near Königsberg. Also and it is another story he did not come back immediately in Belgium but must first transit from Baltic to ... Odessa before coming back but this is another story. He spoke much more about that. I will not write a novel ))) I could with all he told us but what I have to write for the current subject is that, in Odessa, when the Russians were drunk they shooted on anybody and can kill as well German as French, Belgian and Polish prisoners in transit. They were also English POW waiting to go back in their country in Odessa but they had a better treatment from the Russians. "They ate better than the Russians" said this man.
Dear Henry, many thanks for taking the time to write this town. Very interesting to hear a story of someone who was there I must imagine!
What's intresting is that the general perception is that the Red Army acted like savages in Eastern Germany. But less well-known is the dark secret that the Western allies when invading Germany did almost the same thing. Although not on such a massive scale perhaps, but there are thousands of cases of rapes, plunder, ... by soldiers of the Western Allies. While the Soviet Union started removing factories as reparations almost immediately after the war ended, the Western allies did the same, especially in the first 2 years fter the war, there was huge organised theft of intellectual property, patents, factory equipment, ... It's curious to note how all these misconducts are almost solely attributed to the 'savage Red Army' (like Goebbels called them), but that the same gross misconduct by the Western allies is collectively forgotten.
Probably due to the fact that many former nazis found work for the Americans, sometimes even in America.
@The Truth 410 thousand civilians killed by allied carpet bombing during ww2. Burned alive and buried under rubble. That’s more civilians than total American soldiers killed during ww2. Not as bad huh?
@The Truth Soviet Union also spared no effort to stop atrocities against the Germans. There were lots of cases when Soviet soldiers were brought to trial and executed for their crimes against the German population. And this was understandable, because the Soviet leadership didn't want to make Goebbels's propaganda a reality and complicate their task of controlling Germany.
The United States Army also very selectively prosecuted its soldiers for rape. White soldiers usually got away with it. Black soldiers did hard time.
@Fabian Kirchgessner www.spiegel.de/international/germany/book-claims-us-soldiers-raped-190-000-german-women-post-wwii-a-1021298.html
Soviets are on same level of evil as Nazis, if not more evil. The eastern front of Soviet-Nazis war is the most brutal fight in history.
Depends on how you look at it. I consider them both evil, each in their own ways.
British colonists were just as evil as the Soviets and the Nazies
Both were evil but the Nazis were way more evil than the Soviets were. We're talking about people whose ideology is literally based in genocide of numerous groups. Even the Soviets weren't that bad.
Thank you for these explanations I would allow myself to complete - you did not mention the Nazi concentration camps for children on the territory of the Soviet Union - where the kids were bled to death because their blood was used for German soldiers. A concrete example of reprisals against partisans (resistance) in Bielorus was the shooting of a young woman, suspected of helping the partisans. Her baby was buried alive with her... There were thousands of such cases... German occupation was beyond brutal not only in the Soviet Union, but also in Poland, Yugoslavia, Greece. In Yugoslavia, the Wehrmacht executed 100 local civilians for 1 killed German soldier - my mother is from Yugoslavia and witnessed that. The revenge of the Soviet soldiers was horrifying - it is impossible to get out of Hell as an angel. I wonder what would a person who deplores the cruelty of the Red Army do, if their own family was murdered, raped, burnt alive or tortured by German Soldiers ?
I did mention the Germans were crual. I didn't mention every single cruelty. That's not where the video is about.
@@HistoryHustle I didn't mean to criticise. On the contrary, after watching your video, I subscribed to the channel. I only want people to know more about what exactly happened in Eastern Europe (not only in USSR) in WW2. (Some still think that the Germans were innocent victims) You did say that the Germans were cruel - but shooting or hanging members of resistance is one thing, and exterminating their families and villages in most appalling ways is another. As you said : History is about exploring the details". Thanks again.
Most Russian actually believe all of this shit and even more ridiculous fairytales like the secret ukrainian biolabs made up in the offices of RT and the FSB. They are taught to hate western - especially middle and northern european i.e. germanic - people from Kindergarten on. All nations are guilty of war crimes but Russians will always find a way to justify their own while portraying themselves as innocent victims. They just can't let go of the hate towards other people after all these years.
God dam stalin was nazi too, he killed 10 million russian women and chilldren and actually he save german ass and did not let russian soldiers to lick them, he him self was for sure German from hitler family and he saved millions of nazis.
Antony Beevor described the behaviour of the Red Army as it entered Germany and took its revenge in his book on the battle of Berlin. The most lasting memory I have is of the rapes. Any female they could find was raped. They made no distinctions on the basis of age: very young girls, even babies, were raped. Very old women were raped. Nuns were raped. Women that had just given birth were raped. Rapes were not usually individual; gang rapes were rampant. Many females were literally raped to death. Some of those who survived killed themselves due to their shame. If ever there was proof that two wrongs don't make a right, that was it.
I believe Beevor also stated the level of brutality in Berlin was less than East Prussia. I might confuse him with another author.
Even babies nah dude you trippin
USSR : you want stalingrad? we will bring stalingrad to your front door
There you go.
As a Russian, since my childhood, I've heard stories about the immense suffering our ancestors suffered at the hands of Germans. Tales describe entire villages being set ablaze and completely obliterated, people crying and screaming in despair and pain of inevitable death, very few German soldiers showing any mercy. Men, women, and children alike were shot and burned alive, and women that fell into the hands of the Germans were raped and horribly mutilated. In the face of such a nightmarish ordeal, quite a few Russian people chose to side with the Germans to escape a horrific fate and protect their families. (Though some did it for their gains) Although I've never lived in that era, just hearing such tales evokes profound feelings of depression, sadness, and anger. It's a well known cliche that nearly all Russian soldiers had their familes or friends killed by the Germans. Considering they witnessed the atrocities by the Germans on their land and to their people, I can understand how feelings of revenge would naturally arise.
On one hand, I'm fully aware of what Russian soldiers did in pursuit of revenge against German prisoners and civlians, as well as the controversial events such as the rape of Berlin, which I cannot say is right.
There are numerous myths and propagandas surrounding Russian vengeance on Germany, also there's a claim that what Russian soldiers did in revenge still cannot be equated to the atrocities committed by the Germans. Nevertheless, I don't deny it happened, nor do I justify it. I acknowledge that two wrongs don't make one right. Understandable but not justifiable. But I believe that the sufferings endured by both Russians and Germans, as well as many nations during WW2, originated from the malevolence of the Nazis and Hitler, who started the war in the first place. That is who people should blame.
Thanks for sharing this. It is basically what I say in the video. Have you seen it?
@@HistoryHustleYes I watched the video from start to finish. A very interesting and great video.
Thanks 👍
That sounds like typical Bolshevik propaganda and lies, sorry. The Germans were not allowed to commit rape as they would get shot without trial.
@@blitzy3244 While I admit that Russians learn more about how we suffered at the hands of the Fascists than about how we made them pay in that war, how is it propaganda and a lie when there is more than enough evidence (numerous photographs and videos showing violated Soviet women including "Кинодокументы о зверствах немецко фашистских захватчиков", Wilhelm Keitel's proposal to 'Aryanize' German-Russian babies born to German soldiers and Soviet women) to prove that the Germans extensively committed rapes across Soviet Union? I see the claim that the Germans committed few rapes due to racial policy or something laughable as nothing more than a joke, especially considering Barbarossa decree.
It was actually the opposite because the official policy of the Red Army was to harshly punish those caught mistreating German POWs and civilians. Ofc It may not have always been enforced but quite a few Red Army soldiers who attempted to rape or murder German civilians were actually shot. Western historians selectively ignore this fact to defame and dehumanize the Russians, wanting to portray us as mindless warmongers and a bunch of rapists.
Soviets were not brutal only in the east parts of Germany, they were brutal in every area which they occupied. Please read Anthony Beevor: Berlin
True. This video is about East Prussia though.
1. There is a saying here in my country, "" If you do some thing to others, you also need to prepare yourself for the consequences. "".
2. Who started the invasion ?
3. What did they do to the people they conquered?
4. What did they feel when they did the terrible things ?
5. Isn't it fair that they and their countrymen get what they got?
True, although as far as I believe the Red Army itself behaved fairly correct. Also when it came down to the invasion of Eastern Poland with some incidents here and there. The terror mostly came when NKVD thugs took hold of the area.
@Fabian Kirchgessner how is that relevant?
@Fabian Kirchgessner Red army not mascared finish people like germans against russian, yes russian attack finland but they don't even reach a small city
@Fabian Kirchgessner i am referring to " who invaded Finland " . How is that relevant?
@Fabian Kirchgessner ID care what happen in russian civil i talk about Ww2
Who would have guessed that, if given the chance the people who you tried to annihilate would retribute in the same way, or even worse
A polarized subject this seems to be...
@@HistoryHustle As always is
@Fabian Kirchgessner German army and Germans in general had nothing to do with that - i.e. what communists did to their own area of "influence" prior to the war. If people thought they were being liberated - it is an understandable feeling. However, do not over-estimate the enthusiasm of the aforementioned people - even though many have seen German forces as "liberators" not all of them felt that way and in fact - vast majority did not rejoice (even in Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia). Additionally, truth be told - German government has financed communists during the WW1 with the attempt to de-stabilize Russian Empire and drive them out of the war. Again, understandably it was a tactical machination and move, it worked - but it has also brought the communism to Russia. This sets responsibilities for what happened in Soviet Union between two wars on German shoulders as well. I sense a whiff of justification or reasoning in your comments. So let's set this context straight - Germany invaded Soviet Union (unprovoked and because of ideological goals and motives), German policies were clear about the status, fate and future of anyone who is not germanic - and have acted upon them. The atrocities committed were extremely brutal and inhumane. Therefore, any expectation of mercy was on a tall order. To sum up - German people and their lands had to endure few months of horror - which pales in comparison to years of German "rule" in the east. So do not try to redirect the narrative with " Yeah imagine why the people started to greet the Wehrmacht as liberators at first."
@@HistoryHustle And it should not be - it is very clear and motives are not hidden. It is baffling why was anyone surprised about what happened when after years of atrocities - things turned around. Perhaps in 21st century people have started to forget the whole story and started to use filters for historical facts.
@Fabian Kirchgessner They collaborated because the alternative was death.
Why were the germans so cruel to the russians during WW2 ?
Racist ideolgy
indeed
Also hatred since WW1 and hatred for Bolshevism.
@@HistoryHustle Yes, and today there are a great amount of germans with russian blood.
@@ElCondeFrancisco the millions of rapes of German girls, women, and grandmothers will have that effect on a subjugated populace!
No matter what we think about those events, they all snowballed from propaganda and extremism from both left and right. Let's hope we learned our lesson
I dont think we have
Clearly lessons were not learned. To this day, no matter how advanced societies are, we still see torture, attrition and blood being spilled of innocent civilians. Cities and towns being bombed to impose fear and submission.
So, what is the lesson we should learn?
@@Nate-uf4xk You failed to understand my comment.
@Fabian Kirchgessner The "Wehrmacht brothel system" disagrees with you
New to History Hustle but good work with this video. Of course as a student of History at the University level, I and or we heard of revenge but great point to say, "The Soviets had to ask why would a people with so much try to take us with so very little!" Much could be said for Soviet atrocities at the end and post war not only Germany but Europe. Please continue so we never forget any of another stupid war. Thanks Mate.
Thanks for your message, Luke!
Japanese army's war conducts were the most cruel and despicable! They just like being cruel! And today some japanese still believes they done nothing wrong!
The US occupation authorities broke the Japanese military tradition and destroyed parts of their culture like their honor code and glorification of self-sacrifice. This is cultural erasure, but I say it is the right thing to do.
The hatred towards Japan by China runs very deep even as of today.
The Japanese were also very brutal in WW2 and even before that. Think of 1937 in Nanking. I covered that on location, please check:
czcams.com/video/3xCfKXav63A/video.html
and a whole lot of Germans as well, the de Nazification did not go far enough or long enough, and the US knowingly admitted "former" SS soldiers into the USA, as long as they worked for the US military. That is, SS soldiers admitted, over and above the scientists from Operation Paperclip. Australia and Canada also admitted many SS, there is no such thing as "former" SS, they are SS for life.
Similar with ww2 Ukrainians . Their ,,freedom fighters" (they were doing freedom fighter stuff you know , like nailing a child to the doors by his pp bc he was Pole.) unleashed one of the most brutal events in ww2 (Volyn massacre). And now they are praising them ssying that thry were fighting for independent Ukraine (by pchysically deleting every person who wasn't Ukrainian or German.
The Eastern Front is complicated and fascinating because it's not the
" Good guy 🆚
Bad guy "
It's BAD guy 🆚
BAD guy
Agree. With a lot of innocent cassualties in between.
War was started by Germany. This puts an end in the question of who was the bad guy.
Nazi racial theory did not consider the Slavs to be people. In Poland, the Nazis killed 6 million people, of whom only 2.5 million were Jews. 1/5 of the population. During the invasion of the Soviet Union, responsibility for any crimes was removed from German soldiers. Gudenian even had an order for his troops - he treats Soviet women and children as cruelly and inhumanly as possible. Innocent Soviet civilians were hanged on the gallows, Russian, Ukrainian and Belarusian women were massively raped, 7 million Soviet civilians were brutally killed in concentration camps, they were gassed, forced to work 16 hours without food, as a result of which the prisoners died of starvation. There was a concentration camp in the Baltic States where the Nazis took blood from Soviet children for their wounded soldiers, in which 53 thousand Soviet children were killed. The Nazis burned prisoners who could not work alive in furnaces, including women and children, or bulldozed them. During the retreat, the Nazis burned Soviet villages along with civilians and infrastructure. This war, I repeat once again, was started by Germany. Now answer the question. Did Soviet soldiers have the moral right to retaliate for all this?
@Daniel Mendozkevich I want to defend Germany but I simply can't because of people like you who simply blame Germany's bloodlust on the allies. Because poverty causes the desire to genocide the Jews and Slavs, makes sense mate! Germany should repent and acknowledge its evil past, and use that as a step for a better future. Responses like yours give me brain cancer and I genuinely start to wish Germany was split into 50 microstates after WW1. Germany got wrecked by the Allies (though mainly Russia and UK to a lesser extent), accept it. They. Were. Weak.
@@arty5876 respons to the answer: no, the soviet couldent Just for revange kill innocent civillian, of course all nazi officers and all of the German soldier Who had done all the orrible Crimes have ti be punished but retaliate on civillian Is like beating a dog of a person that burned your house, just unjustifayed
The Western front was also bad guy vs bad guy because the supposed "good guy" had colonies all across Asia and Africa
My wife is from Belarus. Gomel. Her great aunt was born in a bunker in the Pripyet marshes hiding from Ukrainian Hiwis. Her great grandparents were hung. Her mother was born in the train coach where they lived in 1947. She lost half her family in that war. The people did not ask for the attention of the madmen of the 3rd Reich. They who thought they had won and would not be held responsible. Sometimes justice is not kind.
Sorry to hear this.
@@HistoryHustle Sorry more people don't know history. It's the best tool humanity has moving forward.
Unfortunately the wheels turned. No wonder most German soldiers who fought In the east wanted to be captured by the Americans and British. They were guilty of the crimes they committed.
I hope that a new war won't start in the comments
It has begun and it will be over by the festival which you celebrate in winter
@@mkt1098 Sure thing, I'm afraid...
Exactly
The tribal thinking is rooted deeply inside us, accepting that innocent ones getting punished for bad things done by others of "their" tribe.
East european nationalists defending their country's past in comment sections is the fastest force to be mobilized
Well, considering the fact that 27 million Russians, Ukraine, Belarussian died, the Germans should have seen it coming.
Revenge played a role but there was more. Please check ilthe video if you haven't.
@@HistoryHustle
I enjoy your videos !
@@k-brick9996 No civilians should see anything coming or be grateful or whatever people here write. No palestinians,. ukrainians and every other civilians. I assume its just online rhetoric because if it isnt that sets a dark tone for the future. I must have been sheltered because i always assumed that cruel people are in the minority but whenever you look at comments, oh boy
@@bdarecords_
Have you ever thought prople just put on masks when face to face but when online they stop caring.
Oh yh I do agree with what you are saying. But all I'm saying is if you are going to invade foreign country whether Iraq, Ukraine, always expect retaliation and revenge killings. It is hypocritical to invade and kill people of Country B, then complain why terrorists or death squads from Country B are killing your own people.
"He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.".
-Nietzsche
Interesting quote.
Bullshit, the germans were litterly going to kill or enslave your parents if they had won the war. The soviet epic revenge is justified easily by german unmerciful brutality to every thing they unrightfully conquered...
"Why Were the Soviets so Cruel in East Prussia during World War II?". In URSS, Nazi were not cruel but brutal, violent, vicious, killing everyone and destroying everything...They were savage. Belarus lost more than 2 million people.
True. One could argue that the Soviets had "the right" to take revenge on the Germans. I refrain from such statements. I do not believe in revenge. I explain it as why it happened. Therefore it can be understood. Whether a person then states this was 'the right thing' is up to him or her.
Belarus- more people were murdered there, mostly Jews but a lot of Slavs as well as a percentage of the population then any other country in the war. A real slaughterhouse!
Thanks for all of the work you put on for increasing our knowledge
Thank you, Urmi!
😀
Considering what nazies did in the USSR and Poland, this "revenge" is nothing.
Eye for an eye leaves both people blind.
A polarized subject this seems to be. History is about exploring the details. You can consider it a science. It can also be a moral compass. One could argue that the Soviets had "the right" to take revenge on the Germans. I refrain from such statements. I do not believe in revenge. I explain it as why it happened. Therefore it can be understood. Whether a person then states this was 'the right thing' is up to him or her. Furthermore by exploring the Soviet atrocities it doesn't mean I approve what the Germans did. Firstly this video isn't about what the Germans did. Secondly I do address this to a certain extent to provide some context. I am aware the German army killed and raped more Soviet people than vice versa. Lastly. Many people link the Red Army atrocities in Eastern Germany to other atrocities (against Poles or within the borders of the USSR itself like the NKVD prison massacres, deportations, purges). Some people link it to the violence of communism in general. I do agree that communism is a violent ideology and that the USSR under Stalin was a state of violence and that the Red Army's atrocities to German citizens can be linked to it. Yet, and do believe this would be an oversimplification of things and like I stated in the beginning: history is about exploring the details. In others words: there is more to it. That's what I tried to do in this video. It is up to the viewer to agree on the fact whether I did a good job.
A Dutch man who had the misfortune of being in the concentrated camp under the nazis then later under the Soviets wrote that he would rather spend a week in a nazi death camp than an hour in a Soviet one.
Do you remember his name?
Do you know how many per died in Germany camps?
I am dutch as well and I can say this is bullshit
Since your exploring this beautiful region Stefan, I heard a beautiful story recently about a Polish Catholic Priest was saying Mass as the Germans arrived with his back as normal to the congregation, then heard the jackboots march in but the Catholic German officer sat down and answered him in Latin and paused from the invasion for Mass. Did you hear about it or know of anyone who did please?
Haven't heard about it.
@Rios Salvajes You can say that again as everyone knows, I only meant this was a nice story to hear of during a terrible time, as not just Catholic Germans, but a lot more of the world done nothing to stop or recompense what happened during the war
@Rios Salvajes Glad to hear you feel so
@jeremy Lyons Yes thanks it does alright, but I'd love if I could find out the true story of it, as I'm pretty sure it was
@Rios Salvajes ...but the Catholic south was the region of Germany with the least nazi voters in 1933 though
Thanks for covering this Stefan, it's important to remember that the people who suffer arguably the most from all the hatred and desolation of war are the innocents; like that poor girl in Solzhenitsyn's poem.
Thanks for your reply.
Remember, 27 Million Soviet People died in the great Patriotic war....27 Million, entire Generations and even more than the Todays Population of Romania, which was around (1989) at the best 22 Million People....Imagine that, every third person you known in your life, at least one family Member and mostly your entire Family, Home and way of life was murdered and Destroyed by this war. And for what? What did the Soviet People do to Germans to Deserve this War of Annihilation, what did they do wrong many asked? Most of them never knew much about Germany, and when the war came, many taught that Captivity was a Solution, but even in Captivity 60% of the Soviet POW,s died in misery and under inhuman Conditions and Torture...Every thing you know has been ruined, every City, town and Village. No one was spared, not even the Women, how mostly were deported to Germany as Slave Labour and Sex Workers, or forced into Mass Wermacht Prostitution Brothels all over the Occupied Zones...Those civilians how could not work were killed. And the most horrifying taught is, that your entire Generation and life is gone...All because of those Scum how can not be even called Animals..And even so, The Red Army fought bravely and was guilty of only few and Isolated Crimes and Destruction of Civilian Structures and even cases of abuse and Rape..
why is called the great patriotic war and not just ww2?
@@itsfinnickbitch63 Because the nature of this war, it was a Patriotic war of the Soviet People against the Fascist invaders and the Fascist war of Annihilation, it was a war for existence, and this is why, this is also why the Pacific Theater is called the War in the Pacific, or the war against Japan or Japanese Imperialism.
@@cocindaucocindau354 interesnting. it seems like ww2 had a much larger impact on russia and eastern europe in generall while most people here in western europe have already forgotten ww2
@@itsfinnickbitch63 Well 9 out of 10 German Solders died on the Eastern front and the biggest Battles and biggest horrors ever recored in History, did happen in the Great Patriotic war by the hands of the Fascist invaders, and for example the most bloodiest and biggest siege in the History of the Human kind, the biggest land, tank and Troops battle, the biggest encirclement of Armed Forced, and the list goes on.
A polarized subject this seems to be. History is about exploring the details. You can consider it a science. It can also be a moral compass. One could argue that the Soviets had "the right" to take revenge on the Germans. I refrain from such statements. I do not believe in revenge. I explain it as why it happened. Therefore it can be understood. Whether a person then states this was 'the right thing' is up to him or her. Furthermore by exploring the Soviet atrocities it doesn't mean I approve what the Germans did. Firstly this video isn't about what the Germans did. Secondly I do address this to a certain extent to provide some context. I am aware the German army killed and raped more Soviet people than vice versa.
Two reasons. Revenge for horrible Nazi atrocities in the USSR, plus the fact that the Soviet system was every bit as cruel and evil as the Nazis.
That where it came down to.
It has to said that German women didn't deserve to raped for the crimes of the Nazis. Some women may have been complicit in the brutality, but most weren't.
True.
the ending was strong was very strong, with what you said at the end, good job!
Thanks!
no to genocide
The Soviets were so cruel because they were lead by Stalin, the greatest Psychopath.
Many people link the Red Army atrocities in Eastern Germany to other atrocities (against Poles or within the borders of the USSR itself like the NKVD prison massacres, deportations, purges). Some people link it to the violence of communism in general. I do agree that communism is a violent ideology and that the USSR under Stalin was a state of violence and that the Red Army's atrocities to German citizens can be linked to it. Yet, and do believe this would be an oversimplification of things and like I stated in the beginning: history is about exploring the details. In others words: there is more to it. That's what I tried to do in this video. It is up to the viewer to agree on the fact whether I did a good job.
@@HistoryHustle There's also the case of the rape of German women by Soviet soldiers, which barely happened in other countries conquered by the Red Army (actually, even the American Army raped German women, but there were only a few hundreds of cases). Stalin gave orders to punish and even execute the culprits, but very few officers followed their orders and instead let their men go with a scold or a very minor punishment. This is not to stay that Stalin wasn't a murderous paranoiac, but his crimes mostly affected the Bolshevik elite and the so called Kulaks, that is to say, peasants that were richer than the average peasant. Nevertheless, the truth is so simple: the Germans, because by that time 75% of the Nazis were Germans, if not more, had murdered 27 million Soviets, most of them civilians. They had deliberately starved to death 900,000 Leningraders who were even shot when civilians, old men, women and children, tried to surrender with white flags. The fact that 8 out of 10 German soldiers who died in WW II were killed in the Russian Front only serves as evidence of the carnage. The cruelty of ordinary Soviet soldiers was just a very human reaction to all the atrocities they had been inflicted upon. If you claim that you wouldn't have reacted that way, I believe you, but don't expect every human fellow to be as high principled as you. While the German atrocities were cold blooded crimes, those by the Soviets were committed in hot blood.
By the way, if you want to see a faithful account of the atrocities committed by the German Army in Belarus and the inhuman suffering endured by the Soviet people, try to watch Come and See.
@@HistoryHustle Elaborate on how communism is a violent ideology.
Not only Stalin, many other scum too, ministers, commissars, marxist intelectuals(Ilya Ehrenburg), and many of their officials.
The British under psychopath Churchill were just as cruel
Thanks for sharing, Stefan. As becomes very clear: war takes away humanity
Thanks for replying, Marcel.
Thanks - was looking forward to this video. Keep up the great work!
Thanks. I think you will like the next episode (this Wednesday) also. It's about the same theme.
Someone once said: If you don't want for you, don't do to somenoelses, because that issue will come about to you.
In short: Do not do to others what you don't want to do unto you.
@@zidorovichburblyatya2862 Hi there! Yes I think that's a universal saying, every country have their own ways to say it. Cheers from Brazil.
A polarized subject this seems to be. History is about exploring the details. You can consider it a science. It can also be a moral compass. One could argue that the Soviets had "the right" to take revenge on the Germans. I refrain from such statements. I do not believe in revenge. I explain it as why it happened. Therefore it can be understood. Whether a person then states this was 'the right thing' is up to him or her.
@@HistoryHustle I agree partially, the revenge is impregnated in every human being no one can change it, is very difficult to judge this when the history proves itself.
@@HistoryHustle ..I'm sure you've seen films like "Downfall" and "Come and See". U know that our boys were not themselves anymore by the time the Red Army took over Berlin. I'm not justifying what they did to those poor women but it's understandable. And yes, marshall Zhukov has personally ordered to divisions and regiments commanders to execute solgers who has been involved in rapings and killings of the civilians. And he did stoped this eventually. Thank u for your work!
Nothing can justify ill-treatment of children
Fair point.
Great post about these tragic events.Thank You
Thanks for your reply.
Start with the Russian Revolution, Red Terror, Holodomor, Icebreaker,
Katyn, Stalin's purges, Doctors plot
A different picture emerges
Many people link the Red Army atrocities in Eastern Germany to other atrocities (against Poles or within the borders of the USSR itself like the NKVD prison massacres, deportations, purges). Some people link it to the violence of communism in general. I do agree that communism is a violent ideology and that the USSR under Stalin was a state of violence and that the Red Army's atrocities to German citizens can be linked to it. Yet, and do believe this would be an oversimplification of things and like I stated in the beginning: history is about exploring the details. In others words: there is more to it. That's what I tried to do in this video. It is up to the viewer to agree on the fact whether I did a good job.
Let's not forget nor pretend you didn't that it was the city of London and Wall Street + Anglo-American Corps. That financed both Stalin and AH
But you didn't see any of them in Nuermberg
I concur. Russians in general and the Soviets in particular need nothing to prompt them to commit atrocities. It's in their DNA.
@@khunsiwalai2971 Losers don't get to pass judgment over those who defeated them. That's not how war works.
You speak as though nothing bad happened pre-Revolution. Do you have any idea how awful life was for the average Russian pre-revolution? More than 60% illiteracy, life expectancy about 32 years. Oh... the joys of Czarism.
What goes around comes around. Germans were equally cruel, maybe they never expected to lose the war, when they committed those atrocities.
A polarized subject this seems to be. History is about exploring the details. You can consider it a science. It can also be a moral compass. Morally you can say that the Soviets had 'the right' to take revenge on the Germans. I refrain from such statements. I do not believe in revenge. I explain it as why it happened. Therefore it can be understood. Whether you state this was 'the right thing' is up to you. Furthermore by exploring the Soviet atrocities it doesn't mean I approve what the Germans did. Firstly because this video isn't about what the Germans did. Secondly I do address this to a certain extent.
OKW knew will lose the war. Hitler at list.
I don't agree with what happened but I totally understand the reasoning behind it. Why should any mercy be spared to people who think you don't have a right to exist?
Revenge did play a role yes.
O..,ja,ja..l from small but beautiful country it's called a Lithuania,but a got half East Prussian blood . I hate..,nazi's rezym, propaganda very...,but I very,very much basteds all lots..bolsheviks rezym and basteds Stalin madafuca propaganda.. I very,very hate and very,very anger..., It's was been East Prussian..capital called Kinezberg..is not called Kaliningrad it's absolutely totally a wrong ,wrong..!! The this make me pistoff and simple makes me anger..because Ww2 red army when has victory ..then after invejin and same occupation....but nothing ..for me steel of Kinezberg...!!!! Forewa Ewa...!!!! Not Russia..,of Kaliningrad Never Never and Ever has, have...!!!!
Considering what the Germans did to the Soviet peoples, perhaps a better question would be: "Why were the Soviets relatively tame with the Germans?"
A polarized subject this seems to be...
I have also asked myself the same question and the answer may be pretty simple - an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. You can ask yourself why did ww2 happen? Mainly because of unfair peacy treaty from ww1. If you as a winner treat your foe badly it will come back to you... I would say that Germans learned their lesson.
What goes round, comes round..
I understand. But two evils don't make one right.
@@HistoryHustle no, but you cant expect the victims of evil to retaliate by having a walk in the park.
Thank you for telling this. My great grandfather was from Prussia and escaped when this was happening
Thanks for your reply 👍
Remember that the original inhabitants of Prussia (the Old Prussians) had been exterminated by the Teutonic Knights and German settlers in the early 13th century. So, it's a bit of divine justice that the Germans, in turn, were kicked out of East Prussia.
More about that here:
czcams.com/video/mqO4bnx44gk/video.html
It kind of really does. At least the mistake our idiotic duke (Konrad of Mazovia) did was corrected. But it's nice to see that people remember the Baltic Prussians.
Teutonic killed for religion not race.
it brings me some comfort knowing that Stalin purged and deported his own Great Patriotic War veterans returning home from combat.
I see..
Don't forget liberated Red Army POWs who were deemed "Traitors" to the Rodina.
You honestly assess the crimes of the Wehrmacht and Nazis. Why not the Soviets, soviet policy was the same as the Nazis, Stalin purged the Kulacks, their own Army and Polish Officers at Katarina Forest and abused Finland All before war with Germany. Don’t apologize for Soviet brutality because they just happened to be an Allied nation.
I don’t apologize for Soviet brutality. I explain it.
British policies in their colonies was similar to that of Soviets and Nazies
I’m so happy I found this channel it’s really good
Good to read. Welcome to the channel.
That was a very good presentation,I enjoyed it. I've wanted to know more about Prussian for a while now.Thank you.
Thanks! I guess you'll find this one also interesting:
czcams.com/video/6JZZ-BV5KoI/video.html
A historical perspective on rape. The grandparents we spoke to said there was no need for rape as the Germans were starving and there was a lack of food, for everyone. If you had two eggs a bit of sausage and half a loaf of bread, you could have any German girl.
I am sure that's what happened in the post-war era where there was a lack of food. Food distribution in German held territories was - for German people only however, as others were left to starve - sufficient.
@@HistoryHustle When I say grandparents I mean the ones who made it to Berlin.
Great video and very well put together
Thanks. I think you will like the next episode (this Wednesday) also. It's about the same theme.
@@HistoryHustle Waiting for it
While understandable retaliation it's still unforgivable and horrific.
As I said, it explains it, but doesn't excuse it
@@pzkw6759 Yeah, we've made the same point.
Fair point.
I live in that realm. Former East Prussia, Lotzen, now Giżycko. The history reminiscents can be found everywhere here. If you look carefully.
Thanks for your reply.
Eye for an eye...revenge... great vid..
A polarized subject this seems to be. History is about exploring the details. You can consider it a science. It can also be a moral compass. Morally you can say that the Soviets had 'the right' to take revenge on the Germans. I refrain from such statements. I do not believe in revenge. I explain it as why it happened. Therefore it can be understood. Whether a person then states this was 'the right thing' is up to him or her.
This video completely overlooks the fact that it was not only Germans the Russian soldiers brutalized, Poles and Hungarians suffered a great deal of violence from the Russians as well. Even concentration camp survivors were not spared. Many civilians ended up committing suicide as a result, sometimes group suicide.
Yeah, look at the title. That's where the video is about
Most accounts put German Civilian deaths between .5m and 2m; compared to 27m Soviet Civilian Deaths. I dont see a video titled, "Why was the Wehrmacht so cruel in the USSR during WW2?"
Please watch the video.
It's very strange why no Soviets were prosecuted for War Crimes , especially when one of them is on film admitting it . There are many such interviews where Soviets have admitted to carrying out atrocities, but hey.....Victors Justice. Two wrongs do not make a right as they say, but where possible each German soldier accused of War Crimes are hunted down no matter how old they are. Anyone accused of these type of crimes , no matter what nationality they are should be tried in a court of law. Here E ndeth my rant!
The USSR ended up on the winning team. That made the difference. Whether this was morally incorrect is understandable.
@@HistoryHustle
Victors Justice my friend.
Well, attackers were not punished after 1WW so they attacked unprovoked for 2WW, then they lost east Prussia.Now they can think twice before attacking again Russia .
@@drazenradmanovic3443
Darren, yes the Red Army overcame their enemies . BUT.....The terrible and criminal atrocities aside........Germany had by far the better soldiers . The USSR had what seemed to be an endless number of men, many of which died for no reason at all. Germany did not have the replacements .
And....Drazan, I am a neutral, just stating the obvious.
@@stevehughes2105 I am not agreeing that Germany had better soldiers.Let me explain in short.Germany had war industry-state controled from 1933 with mass arming and rearmament( specialy communication units), USSR had none.From 1938-1940 Stalin ordered to kill around 250000 oficers in army so when war started they had 30% of recuired level + flatest country on earth to advance.And when you see numbers they had eaual numers of man ready for duty and in army but they were figting on Russian soil 2000 km from Berlin so until German reserves arrive they are allways short of man comparing to USSR+ more incompetent and unexpirienced leadership.(Germans had allready 3 years of campaings behind them).So you have first 2 years Germans advancing and 2 years of retreating.I admire Wermacht from military aspect but dont underestimate Red Army.Watch TIK channel on youtube, great material. All the best mate
Having done a lot of research and reading over the years it is a myth that the Russian treated the Germans so badly in East Prussia purely because of the way they were treated during Operation Barbarossa. The Russians committed similar acts in 1914 when they invaded the state. This says a lot about the average Russian soldier.
Atrocities did occur in WW1, but these are of another scale and intensity than WW2. Love to know which books you've read about this topic. Lemme know.
@@HistoryHustle It does show that we should not be surprised at what happened in 1945, because of what was done in 1914, when there was no reason for the Russians to behave as they did in East Prussia. I will try to find the title of the book. There is also precedence with the Germans in 1914 in Belgium. It only takes a dictator to ramp violence to a level that is hard to understand, and this has happened throughout history. Napoleon in Spain, Julius Caesar, and Rome throughout its history, & Genghis Khan are examples of this.
@@HistoryHustle One was an excerpt from an article research.gold.ac.uk/id/eprint/11072/1/HIS_Watson2014.pdf
They're doing the same things now in Ukraine. That says all.
Started watching your videos when I first moved to the Netherlands and was desperately trying to get a cultural hold onto my surroundings. It is great that you are making videos on travel, in the real cities, I truly enjoy it!!! Thanks for helping me making sense of what has been going on in Europe!
Thanks for your message.
In the Unwomanly Face of War, some female Red Army veteran describes finding a woman half dead on the side of the road. When they woke her they learned she had five children, four were shot to death by German soldiers who were ready to kill her fifth, a newborn. She killed her own baby because in that moment who knows what was going through her mind. She was then shot and wounded, eventually being found by those soldiers.
Reading those stories, from veterans, from survivors, young children in Belarus and Ukraine being afraid of "the sky" because of how many civilians the Wehrmacht and SS were hanging publicly. Not just in the Soviet Union, but in Poland, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, Greece, all countries that the Germans brutality occupied killing much of their population. Germans were about as popular as crabs and while the Red Army was laying waste to the countryside trying to smash apart what was left of the German war machine you had roving bands of partisans and recently sprung prisoners going around killing Germans where they found them military or civilian.
With how the Nazis waged the war and how long they kept it going it was always going to end that way.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this.
@@HistoryHustle Its a fine video, I just felt even more context had to be put in. To go through all he depredations of Germany in WW2 would require a library of tomes.
My father, now 86, was 10 when his family fled in 1945 for Germany. He has never forgotten the things he witnessed. He still has nightmares. His grandparents refused to leave with them, and the family never heard from them again, or knew what had happened to them.
Sad to hear, thanks for your reply.
The museum in Elbląg has an excellent exhibition of the history of the city using as a background the ruins of 1945 and how since the end of communism it has been rebuilt.
Have to check that the next time I'm there!
@@HistoryHustle I videoed it last year but still have not posted it. I think it is one of the best exhibitions of its kind that I have seen!
I think that both sides of the eastern front were horible. As i live in Latvia a Baltic country we hated both sides but espacially the soviets because they had taken our independence and fatherland from us in 1939. The baltic countries had significant resistance groups against the soviets after ww2, no other place in the soviet union had such resistance
The Baltics nations were indeed stuck between a rock and a hard place, between two evil states. I made a video about Latvia during WW2:
czcams.com/video/-PLihNoUwOs/video.html
When my grandfather crossed the bloodied fields of the now desecrated land his ancestors called home did he forgive?
When my grandfather found the corpses of his countrymen raped and defiled did he forgive?
When my grandfather first tread on the soil of the disgusting hateful species that is the teuton butcher did he forgive?
No. Justice was to be repaid in kind.
@Fabian Kirchgessner your not defending nazi germany? Then why are your first responses filled with whataboutism about some soviet crimes?
Its obvious that you are some butthurt german whose obsessive over this topic.
A polarized subject this seems to be. History is about exploring the details. You can consider it a science. It can also be a moral compass. One could argue that the Soviets had "the right" to take revenge on the Germans. I refrain from such statements. I do not believe in revenge. I explain it as why it happened. Therefore it can be understood. Whether a person then states this was 'the right thing' is up to him or her. Furthermore by exploring the Soviet atrocities it doesn't mean I approve what the Germans did. Firstly this video isn't about what the Germans did. Secondly I do address this to a certain extent to provide some context. I am aware the German army killed and raped more Soviet people than vice versa.
I am half german and I think it's so sad that Germany lost so much of its territory. They where maniacs in that time. They still could have had everything but now they got just Germany left. Millions of Volksdeutsche had to leave their homes in the east. I am not angry at the russians. I am sad that the germans were so brainwashed and manipulated. We should not be angry, we should be humble and accept that it's Karma. This is why the german government and the West hates Russia so much - because Russia was the winner of the second world war. One more thing is that my family grew up in East Germany. I think they became much better people under russian rule than the germans in the west. My grandmother who was in the "Hitler Jugend" for children totally changed her mind when she got in contact with the russians. Her experience, thank God, was a good experience. She said, that those who were rude and evil, where the americans who were there. The american soldiers where horrible, shitting in the apartments, being absolutely terrible. No big change when comparing with the american soldiers of today. She told me the Russians where not even interested in the germans, in the east. Now I understand what the russians mean when they say "denazification".
By the way; I love your videos.
A pity your grandmother survived.
@@patriciabrenner9216 I am pretty sure you do not understand what "pity" means or you were just being thoughtless and cruel for no reason. I often wonder how people cannot see the hypocrisy if their worldview is like that. How to rationalize rooting for civilians harm.
Umm .. The Soviets did not liberate Treblinka. Treblinka was shutdown and all remnants of the buildings were erased in 1943. The land was plowed over and replanted with trees and shrubbery. The Soviets liberated Auschwitz which is probably what you meant. As for Majdanek, Soviets liberated virtually intact (Germans did not have time to destroy the evidence.)
Stand corrected.
Again like usual another great video stefan
Thanks. I think you will like the next episode (this Wednesday) also. It's about the same theme.
Soviets wear also cruel to non german civilians. They reaped and robbed non german civilians. I read acounts that officers forced all soldiers to participate. Also the nicest of soviets were frontline troop and the worst were nkvd and third line troops. In my homeland a lot of histrorians consider soviets as in brutality equal to germans. I heard some confessions of people who fought both soviets and germans. They often said that soviets were worst than germans. It may sound very ridicouls to people from western europe. These are not my personal belives, i'm just quote historians from my country. Also soviet soldiers were often nice to simple people from contryside. My grandma told me that soviet were nice to her family. Btw soviets often reused german concentration camps.
Many people link the Red Army atrocities in Eastern Germany to other atrocities (against Poles or within the borders of the USSR itself like the NKVD prison massacres, deportations, purges). Some people link it to the violence of communism in general. I do agree that communism is a violent ideology and that the USSR under Stalin was a state of violence and that the Red Army's atrocities to German citizens can be linked to it. Yet, and do believe this would be an oversimplification of things and like I stated in the beginning: history is about exploring the details. In others words: there is more to it. That's what I tried to do in this video. It is up to the viewer to agree on the fact whether I did a good job.
@@HistoryHustle i know that. I used word soviets because a lot of soldiers were non russian. And you did hell of a job.
lol cruel, after what Germany did to Soviet Union, Stalin should have deported most of East Germans to Siberia and colonize East Germany with Soviets like they did in Kaliningrad.
Some Germans were indeed deported.
I am the son of a British soldier and German mother . My mother fled the Polish corridor as a 4 yrold with her family from the Russians , they settled in Bremen . As a child i remember visiting my German cousins as my father was stationed in Osnabruck with us in 1966 . My German Grandfather was still alive and had fought in WW1 , and bother my uncles had been in the ss panzer corps during ww11 . There were many interesting conversations between my father and relatives about the war, which i remember . My parents and German uncles and aunties are all dead now and i have lost touch with my cousins . My son knows he is part German maybe one day he will search out his cousins.
Did you German grandfather spoke to you about his experiences during WW1?
@@HistoryHustle when i met him a few times i was very ,young so did not really understand his being in ww1 , but over the years visiting our German cousins although by then Oppa had passed away my mothers brothers would have in depth conversations with my dad , who as i said was a serving British soldier ,i remember also a lot of mutual respect about all their service even though they had been in the ss panzer corps. What i did learn was that soldiers all spoke the same language no matter what nationality.
Thanks for replying, Raymond!
@@HistoryHustle Nice to see interest in my 'postww2 offshoot story ' , my uncles built their house next to the Tram tracks with rubble and timber from bombed out buildings, big enough for all them including their parents . Probably something you were allowed to do just after the war. They had a spacious garden allotment , and had grown gooseberry bushes and apple trees in abundance . By the time we would visit them in 1965 the infrastructure was rebuilt and i was amazed even as a eight year old how modern Bremen looked how the buses and trams and super markets were so nice . I also remember when we were posted back to shorncliff in Folkestone how run down and old everything was , obviously the yankee dollar was not extended to our rebuilding as much as the Germans ..
We were also in Kenya and Malta before Germany , and after Shorncliff we were posted to Gibralter for 2 years . As a child of the British Empire i am often touched with nostalgia by history and long gone traditions , as my father was ex coldstream gaurds drummer and became Drum major of 1bt Royal Fusiliers Later to become 3bt. My father saw active service in northern Ireland and was the first non com officer to get shoot and wounded . They interviewed him on Panarama in his hospital bed . I remember in colcjester my dad popped in with a helicopter due to take of soon in barracks nearby . He and his army buddy with crombies and 9mm chest holsters popped home for ten mins after bringing IRA prisoners over . Mate as a army kid i could recite stories for hours mabye i will write a book one day child of the British Empire , that is when the lefty Marxists mind set is put to bed . Hope i havent bored you , all the best ..Ray👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾
We can not judge what the russians did because we did not suffer the way that they did. this war so long ago is very sad in so many ways
Actually we can. It's called History.
Excellent Research and thank you for sharing your knowledge ❤️❤️
Thanks you for your response.
Revenge, you also become what you hated and swore to fight against. R E V E N G E.
indeed
Great point mate.
Very easy to imagine after the way the Nazi's treated the Russians. If I had lost fifty million comrades, mostly civilians, I would have been upset, also.
Understandable yes.
@@HistoryHustle lol OK genocide is fine if the other party did it first.
@@gilgabro420 it's reality. The Germans killed almost 30 million of their people, and you think they'll just forgive the Germans like nothing ever happened?
The assault was led by Warsaw born Pole Rokossovsky and thousands of Polish soldiers fighting with the Russian army
Thanks for sharing.