Why wood moisture content matters
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- čas přidán 8. 09. 2024
- Wagner meters sent me a free moisture meter, so I have been playing around with it, and also explaining why moisture content matters.
woodgears.ca/lu...
Wagner meters: www.wagnermeter... - Jak na to + styl
moral of the story, line all your projects with potato chip bags
I love it when Wandel goes educational.
It's possible to read vernier calipers to .001" by eye (that's 1/40'th of a millimeter). Reading a ruler to a quarter millimeter is not difficult. A typical LCD monitor will have about four pixels to a millimeter, and two things misaligned by one pixel is easy to see.
11:02 ❤😢❤😅❤
Like all your videos...
But for your information, flexible films used for food packaging do not use aluminium layer anymore(for most of them). The shiny layer is made of OPP(oriented polypropylene) which has a silver appearance. These films have up to 5 layers, each with different charactéristics(moisture retention, oxygen barrier, light opacity, ink retention,etc) which provide protection of the content.
I'm sure they sent it to you to keep you from building one out of a piece of drift wood, an old compass and a piece of copper shoved into a banana. :)
James Bly lol
🤣
They work great to detect mold in drywall and over tile as well. Over 18% on drywall indicates potential for mold. I know I redid my bathroom using a pinless moisture device. It told me it was wet and it was wet. They work well over tile. I highly recommend buying one.
Matthias, you always do a great job explaining the details ~ thanks so much.
My friends and some family thought I was nuts when I stored my pressure treated wood inside the garage and stickered everything to dry evenly over several months. But, nearly a year later after building the deck myself, not a single board or baluster has warped or split and it looks amazing. In contrast, a couple friends of mine who also built a deck with pressure treated wood straight out of the store told me to enjoy it while it lasts because there decks turned into pretzels. Mine still looks awesome and I'm so thankful I took a bit more time to dry the wood first.
That is a chalenge I would like to see Mtthias tackle.
how long should i wait for store bought lumber to dry? i just have 1 board of 2"x10"x8ft i am using for a small project
Thanks for your video's and your time. #1 woodworking video tutorial on the web!
Here's a little curiosity. Do you know why spruce is called like that ? That's funny. Back in XV century Poland exported a lot of spruce to England and as Polish sailors wanted to tell British carpenters from where the wood was, Britishers understood it a little wrong. Polish 'z Prus' meaning that the wood was from Prussia evolved into British spruce and stayed like that forever :)
Not sure. I did a little experiment where I got the surface of the wood damp, and it totally messed up the readings. Once the surface was dry to the touch though, it was back to normal.
I love you for using cm instead of those freaky inches. Thank you!
I did the same thing when a friend of mine lent me his moisture meter. I just ran around measuring every piece of wood in the shop. Lol great info! Never thought about wood density being a factor, I have more to learn. Thanks for the great videos!!
I worked in a cabinet makers shop for a bit. The owner would buy wood and keep it for 3 to 5 years before using it. I made a door from wet poplar, and within a year it was warped beyond use. Excellent video.
Good Video. I'm impressed you gave an honest opinion on the wagner tool and disclosed how you got it. A lot of youtubers would have said its the best tool in the world and always works perfect.
expensive..
@desalvo66 @tubester4567 The Lignomat Scanner SD Moisture Meter is onle $245 vs the $400 for the wagner. I'm wondering if there is any real difference...I doubt it. So for $245, I see absolutely no reason to buy the wagner. They're both made in the US. The Dr.Meter MD918 Inductive Pinless Meter is on $55, and it also looks like the same technology; except its Chinese made.
That was a very good lesson on wood moisture mixed in with your review of a very high quality meter. I liked how you explained the specifics of the meters readings with varied densities of assorted hardwoods. When you truly want an exact reading there is a way to achieve the accuracy required when building musical instruments. Thank you for taking the time to teach what you have learned. It is appreciated by this student.
30%? The wagner meter maxes out at 32. It's not really possible to measure it higher than that, because past around 30%, it's more like a sponge, and that measures very differently. The meter can't actually measure liquid water. I put it on snow, and it read zero.
I love it when you do your test or comparisons videos.
Neat idea, but probably very hard to pull off. Harderdness and density relate, but not always.
Well, that's the compromise of taking free stuff. But I also point out a few things that aren't perfect about the meter as well.
Matthias, I've learned do much watching your videos. Thanks so much for all of the esoteric things you've covered on your channel. Your personality really shines on these videos. Again. Thank you.
It's funny that this video went up now, since we're currently working for a job where the client provided their own "kiln dried" pine. As it turns out, the pine was so damp that it came up as being around 30% humidity. Needless to say, it had to be brought back to the mill to be put back into the kiln for longer (it's from a smaller local place).
Thank you for giving me new experience. It very necessary when will be gone for buying wood.
Yes, got a new camera a few weeks back. A cheap little Nikon S8200
I live in Canada and I’ve never seen a metric tape measure. And I’ve seen hundreds of tape measures. Cool!
Great post-wood moisture content is very important.
As you say, success depends on many variables that impact moisture content-wood type, density, temperature, finish, etc. There’s a lot of science behind the pinless meter, and Wagner Meters have been proven to be more accurate than some other highly respected meters on the market. Of course, it’s a big perk that they are so easy to use and that the technology doesn’t mar your project with pin holes.
Man, hate I missed this video until now. Great info!
@Matthiaswandel We were using a different tester, with the prongs. And yes, 30% or higher. Apparently it had only been in the kiln for a week. It was damp enough that when I would rip a board on the table saw, I could feel a cool mist/moisture on my hand.
Yes, very expensive. That's the problem with products that are for a niche market.
Gravity only plays much of a role when there is liquid water in the wood. Any moisture content over about 30% will be liquid water.
Matthias. You are one smart man.
This is an excellent example (one of many you post on UTUBE) of why in boat building, one should NEVER fiberglass directly over an older wooden boat. These are usually carvel planked and when done on the hard when the hull has dried out, will significantly expand when launched once more. The only reliable way to achieve a fiberglass skin on an older wooden boat is to screw fasten (NOT GLUE) an interstice of plywood panels or double-diagonal strips to the hull and then fiberglass over that.
I get it, but it's still kind of funny to hear you talk about the length and width of a round table :-)
I am so frustrated by wood warping when I get it home. It can be straight at Lowes but within a day it will warp at my house. I had a piece of 1 x 6 pine s4s that I ripped into strips about 3/4 inch wide. There was so much hidden stress on one end that that small cut tried to bind the blade and would have were it not for the riving knife. And then, I cut three 3/4 inch strips from the original 1 x 6 piece that on the third cut the internal stress within the wood actually caused a split into the uncut half. I know, you have no idea because I cannot post a picture. Suffice it to say that you never know what to expect from "just purchased" wood.
I think you fell for something our lecturer warned us about:
Ice has a different resonance frequency on the dipole/molecular level because the molecules are bound in a lattice.
That means it has differend RF/Microwave loss/frequency dependance. For one it does not pick up anywhere near as much energy from the field in a microwave oven. Chances are that the moisture meter will be fooled just the same
Nice review and explanation. Thank you.
Nice review, very comprehensive.
I wonder if you could utilise some kind of piezo sensor to automatically detect the density of a given wood sample and scale the capacitive reading automatically.
Do you think maybe the bed's end board moisture content is different top and bottom due to the room's temperature "layers" ( warmer at 4 feet than at 1 foot ) ?
BTW I'm nuts over your unbelievable thoroughness in all your work, including your GREAT videos. Thanks
I already have one homemade instrument t hat I don't know how to play. No point in building any more.
Great presentation.!!
Your videos are great.
By the time you include shipping, customs brokerage fees, and taxes, that meter (I believe it's the mmc220) will arrive at my door for around $775.00 Canadian.
WelderBob you buy them in China for $ 223 CAD, so seems your shipping and tax are high then.
I live in a tropical environment(central America), normally 80%-humidity, I buy hardwood planks(2 1/4 X 12 X 10) for my wood working. dry the planks for two-years horizontal and stickered.. What kind of a dryness can I expect to use these planks for doors, tables and some furniture..
For anyone coming to this video looking for a moister meter, you absolutely DO NOT need to spend multiple hundreds of dollars to get a Wagner or whatever.
I have one for years, which works perfectly, and that was probably less or about $100. I'm sure you can even find a good one for cheaper now. It allows me to setup wether it's softwood or hardwood, and it's just fine.
Even if the Wagner was more accurate, which I highly doubt (that's quite simple technology after all), you don't need to know wether your moisture is at 7.9% or 8.6%, or even 7% or 9%, you want to know if your moisture is above 15%, which would tell you to wait before using this wood.
Don't spend multiple hundred dollars for a stupid thing that plays on your fear just to make you spend more.
beautiful coffee table, simple and well built. :)
How does it work with treated wood? Great video by the way.
Build a pinball machine? Everyone seems to be giving you ideas I thought I would add to the list
What's the difference in the laminated joint of your Bandsaw, and a laminated breadboard tenant joint at the end of a table? I seriously don't understand the difference... if a breadboard end is done with crossing grains, over and under the body of the table, how is that not stopping expansion in the same way as you bandsaw? Isn't that similar to laminated plywood... especially if all the wood is below 10% moisture and finished with a good poly or lacquer?
Could the difference in the readings of moisture content of the bedframe be related to the fact that there is some accumulation of moisture under the bed, while the parts at the top can evaporate that moisture easier (having more airflow and light around)?
Great video Matthias!
Keep in mind that for the most accurate readings, it's important to set the meter to the correct species setting. By not adjusting the meter, MC readings will be useful for comparison but not for a workable MC range.
Much success to you!
I'm wondering when cherry wood that was cut when the sap was down is dry enough to turn, can I tell by the moisture level? , Thanks.
I've found that resawing moist wood on a bandsaw (11%-25%) can cause moisture on the inner cylinders. This in turn causes sawdust to stick on the rubber. Really annoying.
I'm sure you have totally missed whacking those screws into your wood! Lol. Great info but a little out of my price range. It is 5 years later and still $400 for one of these!
own 1 and love it!!!!
On the bed stead, could it be that there is structure on the lower parts of the bed so it would be more dense?
@ 8:54 - could gravity create that effect? (the footboard reading higher moisture levels as you take reading going downwards). It might be minimal at first, but you said it had been there for years. I’m relating to the ground - gets more moist as you go downward. Surely gravity has to have some effect?
Very interesting video. Thank you.
I think I need one of these.
Oh my God, finally I see who created Pinocchio!
could gravity come into play with the bed? i.e. lower down more moisture down the bottom?
Great vid. Thanks
About the surface thing, don't they mean like the actual surface, the air touching parts, and not the first few centimeters of wood?
Looks like Canon Pro1 With built-in L lens ...Nice vintage horse..
You can make a fresher variation of the old "stud detector" dad joke by carrying around your "contactless moisture meter". Too bad I never had one of these in high school.
I bet shrinkage is much greater Is cold moisture. Just talking from personal experience with my own wood.
It shrinks?
6/1/2019 USA Grandpa Bill: That's a $400 moisture meter, currently out of stock at Wagner Meters.
Does the Wagner check for differences in capacitance due to the dielectric constant of of water? Much like a good soil moisture sensor?
I have same machine but i cahnge batery 9 volt alkaline cannot used..may i know.how much volt must i used for batery
Mathias, thickness matters
Watched this vid because I own the same model meter, MMC 220.
Interesting video thanks
Buy one for $2 at Ikea or Walmart.
Great video. In a different video, you build a bed for a friend from apparently "fresh" Home Depot dimensional lumber. I think that stuff is supposed to be dried to about 20% moisture content, but I don't think it's very reliable. So, would you say moisture content matters, but not always? What is the explanation?
The lumber I used was dry
Do you think you could measure moisture content using resistance on a multimeter? I’ve been playing around with it, my process is marking 2 points 1 inch from each other, hammer in 2 finish nails about 1” deep and measure resistance across. So far a known dry piece of pine has measured around 30 megohms and a suspected wet piece of oak was around 230 kilohm. Granted the density varies but was hoping this would give me a general idea of moisture content. Anyone have any logical critiques or facts I may be missing?
I have an artile on that on my website
Matthias Wandel forgive my ignorance but what is the name of the site?
Damn those potato chips look nice. You've made me really hungry now!
This new youtube is cool!
Matthias, you mention the problem with gluing edging to face grain butcher block, but do you suppose there would be an issue with gluing edging (that is oriented on edge) to an edge grain butcher block?
+Spencer Williams As long as the grain is parallel to that of the butcher block, it will be ok.
you test a slim pc of wood by putting water on it, and show time lapse. Why did'nt you also use the meter before and after adding water to it? The time lapse was cool, and was a good teaching, but it would have been nice to know how much of a moisture it had before and after since this video is about moisture.
The wood was too thin for the meter.
What another source indicated was that "most of the moisture entering and leaving the wood is by way of the ends". Your result greatly surprised me and has me wondering what would have happened if you had set the piece vertically in a small saucer of water.
My problem, horrible problem, is cupping and bowing in wide 8/4 hardwood.
I've seen recommendations to rip wide boards and re-glue them in order to fight the cupping effects. I've been greatly surprised and disappointed by my first 8/4 project in cherry, in which I've witnessed the center of the ends of a glued-up 30-inch-wide plank raise and lower over a 1/4" over a span of a few days in my heated basement which nevertheless has a concrete floor.
I'd be interested in learning how you choose wood for a large-thickness project, and how you protect it dimensionally as, and after, you work it.
Thank you for getting your information out.
Please let me know what is the name of this moisture readers. thank you very much.
Why did the wood shrink in the winter time? Does that mean it would expand during the summer time?
i.e. The stool you made
Hello Matthias, I was wondering if you know of a good meter that is not as expensive? The Wagner looks really good, but I think those are out of my price range. Thanks for the vids.
If a tool is really good then it will be more expensive and worth it most of the time.
Thanks for the reply.
20.4cm-20.35cm is 0.5mm, not 1.5mm. How are you measuring differences 0.5mm with a tape measure anyway? Your resolution uncertainty alone will be at least 0.5mm.
Mr. Bly,s comments some months ago that they send you this item in hopes that you will use it and not built one for us mortals. Will this stop you from making one or is it too difficult to make?
how do you know what joint is appropriate to accommodate for movement???
There are so many different types of wood joints, for all different applications. a good book is the cyclopedia of wood joints by Wolfram Graubner.
"Plastic is not an oxygen barrier." Burt Gummer, Tremors 2
exactly. And H2O is a lighter molecule than O2
great, now i want potato chips! good video.
So the apple didn't fall far from the tree. Your Dad did good.
Interesting⚙️
Have you put it on yourself?
how to curve a piece of wood
what does it read when you put it on your hand?
your future.
Does plywood shrink and expand as well?
Typically not with good plywood. You'd have to expose it to high levels of moisture.
My problem with Wagner is that its to expencive for a simple tool like this.
how well does this meter work on wood for turning?
the meter doesn't care what you use the wood for.
@Matthiaswandel but one that's hand made would be so much cooler!
Are you a second-generation woodworker? Did you go to engineering school?
Kiln drying
I heard moisture meter and all I could think about was critikal