The best consumer HDV camcorder: Canon HV40
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- čas přidán 23. 07. 2022
- 📹 In the early 2000s, four Japanese companies - JVC, Canon, Sony and Sharp - developed a format to record HD video on DV cassettes. They called the new format HDV.
All samples have been shot with the HV40 in 24F mode.
#hdv - Věda a technologie
Great video! I got a Canon HV30 in December 2009 and still have it. For the money and features, it (along with the HV40) may be the best value camcorders ever made!
I used to have the HV30 and HV20
I live in Korea. When I saw reviews of HV40 I was like "24P HDV on this size? awesome" and really wanted to buy it. but literally no one sold used HV40, even in Japan, so I bought HV30 instead. It's nice too, but it's pain in the ass to remove 2:3 pulldown contained in PF24 footages MANUALLY. (I use After Effects for it.) Still better than Cineframe24 mode of early Sony HDV, though.
I guess HV40 has never released in Asia, only HV10, HV20 and HV30.
Cineframe on early Sony HDV is garbage, not real 24 fps. Later models like V1U got it right. Nowadays removing the pulldown is easy, so many tools can do it. Yes, it was more troublesome 15 or so years ago. Thanks for commenting!
So glad I invested in the HV20 back in 2008 and even more pleased that shot all my footage in the native HDV 60i format.
New software like Topaz Video AI plays very nicely with HDV footage and its easy to deinterlace, upsample frame rates and upscale to 4K with incredible results. From a visual quality aspect, the HDV's high quaility 25 mbps / interlaced signal is mathematically on par with 50 mbps / 60 FPS progressive AVCHD footage I currently shoot with Sony CX900. The HV20 was expensive when i bought in back in 2008, but that original investment in the best possible camera at the time helped to "future proof" all my original footage.
I know, right? Imagine using a 14-year old camcorder in 2008, it would be analog standard def, Hi8 at best. But HDV is still relevant now if not in terms of recording media but in terms of video quality, it offered HD for the masses for the first time.
Yep, I've got an HV40 as my backup camcorder, with a Canon VIXIA HF-R600 as my main camcorder. The HV40 was Canon's final consumer/prosumer-aimed tape-based camcorder, because after that they finally began making flash memory camcorders that match (or even surpass) DV and HDV quality, compared to the early years of tapeless camcorders where the quality was inferior to the DV and HDV tape-based models. (And they also discontinued DVD and hard drive camcorders, since flash memory/SD card camcorders don't use moving parts when recording onto the medium.) And yes, my HF-R600 camcorder's footage is slightly but still noticeably higher-quality than the HV40 when both are on their highest resolution/quality settings.
I had the HV40 I loved that camera shot really good short films ok that camera.
I have 4 of them. The canon vixia hv 40
Nice! Why do you need four of them?
Two for video filming and one as a player and an extra. The nice thing is they will play all my oldder mini dv tapes from my other cameras.@@ConsumerDV
I see. I have two Panasonic HDC-SD9 and two Canon A1200 just in case :)
speaking of which no one has done a video of the filters for the HV series not even me. I'd love to see that. most of them can be easily replicated with software such as sepia but the art filter that mimicked developing emulsion film in negative film chemicals it makes everything look weird. the real thing was used in the movie domino but the in camera version doesn't quite look like any software version I've used. I'd also like to know which platforms version of the effect is most like HV20 video. it might be easy in AVID or something but I haven't tried it for hardware reasons.
I think, the effects built into camera were more meaningful for VHS, because if you shot monochrome you would get higher resolution just because the chrominance part was not used. For digital, I never cared about those filters. But it may be interesting to take a look at them, thanks!
And if the tape mechanism for either of these camcorders fail or malfunction because believe me, any tape mechanism will eventually cause problems, simply get a CLEARCLICK HD 4K ULTIMATE EDITION and hook it up to the camcorder and shoot the footage directly onto a SD card OR a USB drive by using the included HDMI cable. - James D. Watkins, artistic director of PHOENIX PRODUCTIONS.
15 years ago one would use a DV/HDV tapeless recorder via Firewire, but these are out of production, the used ones cost an arm and leg. So, HDMI is the only choice.
I'm still sentimental. what a pain working with tapes though. still using raylight and an HV20 I was able to make something that worked on a big screen. I got mine when it was newish I upgraded to an HF-M41 and that was a great camcorder too. I like canon because you have to correct the video for the best performance. it seems to be designed for those who adjust the contrast and color balance in post. that wouldn't matter with a pro camera because they have more manual controls but with consumer cameras the most important feature of all of them is exposure lock. still the HV20 was delightful to use. I liked it's reversal chemistry filter.
Recently I realized that Canon and Panasonic meant different things when they used "Cinema" mode name. To Panasonic it meant higher contrast, while to Canon it meant lower contrast and flatter gamma curve. I agree, the Cinema Mode on the Canon worked well for grading.
I now have 6 of the Canon vixia hv 40's What agreat camcorder.
You got two more during the last year? :) I sold mine. But I have three Panasonic HDC-SD9: 3CCD + 24p.
@@ConsumerDV i am surprised how good panasonic cameras are. I never thought of buying one until I saw some of the videos on youtube.
Do you feel there’s a difference in image quality from the cameras that used mini DV HD vs SD Card HD footage? I’m looking for that 2000s broadcast tv look
There are lots of factors that contribute to the look from the sensor type to scanning type to the lens type to the frame rate. But the media type is not one of these factors.
@@ConsumerDV Indeed. I was between getting a Canon HV for HDV videos, or a Panasonic HDC-HS9 because I really like the 3 CCD on it as I have a Panasonic PV-GS500 and love it. But I was always impressed by the look Canon accomplished with that CMOS sensors from the HV line and I don't know if the HD from the Panasonic is up to the same level
The HS9/SD9 use CCD (global shutter) and can do 24p ("film look"). But the sensors are tiny (deep DOF, low sensitivity), there is no mic input. I think the HS9/SD9 can simulate 16-mm film pretty convincingly: czcams.com/video/N4_T6w_2_b0/video.html The HV is nice, but rolling shutter artifacts at 24p may be noticeable if you bump or shake the camera. Strictly speaking, none of them is broadcast grade, the minimum spec for broadcast HD is 50 Mbit/s 4:2:2.
@@ConsumerDV Perfect, thanks for all the info! And love the images on that video with the Panasonic, but perhaps I'm more into the Canon HV for now. And about broadcast grade I know I won't really achieve that same HD Mbit/s quality, but I was looking for a handycam style camera that could give me something close to it.
Thanks again
My favorite one is Sony hdr hc9
My favorite is the Sony HDR-HC1. Not too small, not too large, super sexy looks and a pleasure to hold. Polished plastic does not creak, metal parts in all the proper places. Lots of buttons, great ergonomics, customizable menu, shot transition. I would have kept it if it could shoot progressive-scan video. The Canon HV40 beats the Sony with the image quality and with the variety of recording formats. Of the modern Sony models I think the HXR-NX80 is the closest: very compact as well, chunky, feature-rich, still not as sexy as the HC1.
Now you’re talking. I loved using the HC1. Very well designed with all the right buttons in all the right places. My last film l made my HC1 broke down, and l bought on eBay an HC3 to finish the film. It looks great, and quality was just as good, but for handling l preferred their first model, which they used the HC1’s body for another camera later, a much more expensive camera. Thanks for making this video by the way.
While I agree on the superb quality on models like the HV20-30-40 from Canon, The HV30 was the reason why I launched into that adventure and retired pretty quickly from it: the Camera was great but the real-time capture via Firewire was slow and clumsy, sometimes failed, required frequent user intervention (if anything to change the tape) and despite having idiotically spent a lot for a Stereo Video Mic from Rode the cardioid shape of the microphones' pick up meant the noise from the tape transport was almost as present as the one from the internal microphone or even worse thanks to the microphone of wonders' optimum sensitivity.
After that I found out that I had to inverse-telecine all the footage which required an INSANE amount of processing time and knowledge at first as it wasn't really a perfect science and also because that process was barely optimized. And back then I am sure the graphics card wasn't even contemplated to process video so despite not having a dead horse it sat there idling barely lukewarm.
Then there was the editor that I BOUGHT which was owned by SONY at the time. It turned out to be a complete BUGFREAK. I could work hours on end and my project's timeline would garble up (went corrupted) several times for no reason and there was NOTHING that I could do to restore the functionality except going back to a saved version of the work, probably from 30 minutes prior at best and find out all the steps that it was missing... Every time this happened it took something like 15 to 20 minutes to go back to where I was before, it was EXCRUCIATINGLY SLOW and PAINFUL. And it wasn't even computer related, on my laptop it played the same tricks... The result was HOURS and HOURS of pure FRUSTRATION.
It was at that point that to maintain my SANITY and recover some money I decided to throw in the towel. And while I've ever since missed the quality and convenience of my HV30, I will never miss the experience as a whole. In retrospective I could have bought a normal shotgun mic and waited for the software to improve because I've had the opportunity to use newer trial/demo version of the same software and it wasn't that bad and it didn't fail so dramatically and quickly. But that came after a decade of failures while CZcams and non linear video editing became mainstream. By then real time footage capture would have been a ridiculous waste of time and I'd still be tied to inverse-telecine which in the meantime, since nobody uses it anymore could have seen new bugs introduced and worsened quality/options. I am glad of the choice I made.
I did have several HDV camcorders, and the HV30 was one of them. I still have DV camcorders, so I still use tape from time to time, mostly for fun, for a review, or for capturing existing tapes. I remember using Sony Vegas 8 or 9 with HDV; at some point all of the clips would become just green rectangles, and nothing would fix it. This drove me mad! I guess it is the same issue you had. They fixed it in later versions. Presently I use Vegas 14, and occasionally my clips would turn empty. Thankfully, if I just save the project, exit and then restart Vegas, I get the clips back. So, there is still remnant of this issue, but it is not as destructive and permanent as it was before. Otherwise, I like Vegas, it is very fast and flexible.
Regarding inverse telecine, I used ProCoder to recover 24fps, nowadays I can do it with VirtualDub easily. Some of my AVCHD camcorders use telecined 24p, like the HG10, the HF100, the Panasonic HDC-SD600 and HDC-SD700.
I appreciate the comment! Modern camcorders have got away with interlace, so we can get 24p or 30p or even 50p and 60p as native progressive. And no tape capture. Life is so much easier now.
@@ConsumerDV We've all been in the same boat at some poit. I bailed out.
TBH I don't remember too much, I tend to remove. Before I said Sony but perhaps it was Magix at that time? I'd have to look in the dead account email pile.
Probably I incurred in the same problem but also for what I remember in time shifting timeline until I reverted to a saved version. I recall the green rectangles.
While I always liked workflows and procedures I could not conceive how a professional doing the job for a living could cope with that level of unreliability... it drove me up the wall and onto the other side.
Perhaps it's the reason why Apple is WINNING so much in the realm of video making... they value their customer's time and work very efficiently.
Magix bought both Vegas from Sony, both the Pro and the Studio. Magix continues to develop the Pro, but it replaced the Studio with the Magix product starting from Movie Studio 18. Just like any product, Vegas had and has its issues, sometimes these issues are related to specific codecs.
In somewhat related news, in 2018 Apple decided to stop supporting a bunch of codecs that many had considered essential, like DNxHD/DNxHR and Cineform: support.apple.com/en-us/HT209000 People were pissed. I suppose Apple wants everyone to use ProRes.
Why do you not mention Sony Vegas? You just say Sony. Anyway, I used an early version of Sony Vegas, like vers 6 and it was amazing. Also used Final Cut Pro as well. The problem with all this was not the editing software, it was the failure of the user to convert (or even know about) all the HDV footage to Prores or Cineform before starting to edit. HDV does not edit well natively. No one seem to state this fact. Even newer formats, especially cell phones and GoPro cameras need to have their footage converted in order to work well and not ruin the quality. Even very recent camera footage needs to be converted if the camera does not shoot natively in PrroRes or Cineform.
Oh well. I'm putting my HV30 and HV40 into use this month on a performance I am shooting that I was a three camera shoot for. There are things a Canon HV40 can do that a good iPhone cannot. So we will see.
Oh another Firewire 1394 could be difficult to get a computer to recognize if you did not power down, connect, and power things up in just the right order. That was what I thing was a major flaw.
Why did you HAVE TO inverse-telecine all the footage?
@@rockrecordreport7136 Yes it was the Vegas suite, at the time I think it was under SONY, at least my licensed version was.
Anyways since problems were barely addressed and it was working so poorly I took freedom to install their next version and cracked it (there was an upgrade path but I did not want to invest, my money wasn't flawed to begin with).
Anyways... I still have the machine capable of acquiring from IEEE 1394 interface and the software (both original and cracked).
For the inverse telecine it was necessary because the 24 fps footage was "encased" with scattering (across fields) into a 60i fps stream. The efficiency of this conversion was several times slower of a simple transcording from HDV to H264.
Good luck for your grabs!
What is the value of these nowadays? People are sometimes asking prices over 200 euros for Digital 8, MiniDV and even Hi8 camcorders. Is it possible to get a HDV camcorder for around 100 euros?
It seems the prices are unstable. 5-7 years ago they were cheaper. Maybe people buy them again to transfer 20-year old tapes.
@@ConsumerDV Thanks for your reply! Do you know which HDV (consumer) camcorders were produced by JVC and Sharp? I find little about them on internet. Or did they only release HDV camcorders for the professional market? For now I am focussing on the Canon HV10 because of the size and hopefully I can find one between 50 and 100 euros.
Wikipedia lists all HDV models, I believe. Mostly ProHD by JVC and none by Sharp. AFAIK, the HV10 cannot record prog scan.
I have owned five of these and all of them fail in the same way: they stop playing back tapes eventually. I can put tapes in and it appears that it will work, but when I press play...nothing. Frustrating.
Canon or Sony? The first Sony model, HDR-HC1, was known for mechanical failures. My Canon camcorders still work, although I have used them sparingly.
@@ConsumerDV Canon HV40
This is frustrating. I bought three JVC MiniDV camcorders of the same model, and two of them had faulty mechanism - one did not have a pinch roller, another did, but it fell out when I wanted to load a tape. Some mechanisms are just generally worse than others, but I used to think that Canon's are better ones. Did you shoot a lot of tapes on it? Generally they say for Pro DV/HDV cams after 500 hrs it has to be serviced, and after 2000 hrs the head drum must be replaced, but I don't think amateurs shoot that much.
Same here. And I loved the Canon Vivia hv30.
My HV 30 and HV40 are both purring like kittens and shoot wonderful quality video. I have taken them out and checked the batter life on all of my extra batteries (some are failing some not), attached the Cannon D50 external mics, have them on tripods with the lens hoods on (makes them look more pro LOLOL). I am going to shoot a stage performance later this month and want to do a 3 camera shoot by myself, so I'm going to give these cameras try at this late point in life. I expect smashing success.