Is the Orthodox Church Shrinking in America?
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- čas přidán 9. 09. 2023
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Let's examine statistics and see what the numerical situation of the Eastern orthodox Churches in America looks like, then we'll see what some Orthodox people say ought to be done about it.
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The Bible was Written in Greek 🇬🇷☦️
Since there are no original copies of New Testament writings, no one can truly say; however, there is a letter written in 110 which references the Gospel of Matthew as being written in Hebrew
The Orthodox church is exploding in growth. All across America Orthodox churches are seeing an unprecedented level of interest in joining.
@@gabrielmaldonado1903 Not all Bible's. There are Bible's from the Ancient Eastern Text which went through Aramaic. I have one of them because I don't like all the extra translations as the Bible made its way through Europe.
I was raised as a Southern Baptist, but became non religious as a teen. When I got married in 1982, my Greek father-in-law mandated that I be Chrismated into Orthodoxy....to this day I ptactice Orthodoxy and plan to die a ptacticing Orthodox Christian, even though I've been a widower for more than 30 years and my Father & Mother in Law have been gone for 10+ years....I am Orthodox and I love the Church.
If I may have permission to ask.. what attracted you to Orthodoxy outside of your father-in-law mandating it? Was it the doctrine? Their worship? Or some combination in between?
I'm sorry for your loss
@@Linwinky I am happy with his gain.
Glory to God!
Memory eternal.
Before 2017, my city had no Orthodox Church. A priest came from Romania to serve as a mission priest for 3 small cities. I first met him at an Anglican Church, he was using the chapel for liturgy. There was only 12 people in attendance. In 2020, the parish purchased an old church building and renovated it. Today we had a service with 90 people. Every week we see new faces. We have basically outgrown the building and have only had it for 3 years.
2020 really was the turning point
Let's goooo! God is good)
Are there romanians in your area?
@@VladVlad-ul1ioYes. About a third of the church is Romanian. Another third are slavs, and the rest are converts.
If Bergolio pursues the insanity of ordaining woman as priestess you will see many more converts praise God ☦️🙏🏻❤️
I became an Orthodox „revert“ at the age of 15 last year, Glory be to God ☦️ Greetings from Germany 🇩🇪
So sorry to hear that
☦☦☦
@@CalebPreach4245 We pray for people like you
@@roombussr5676that's all we can do, brother ☦️
As young Orthodox Christian, I can’t understate the importance of having youth in the church. It is hard to be motivated to attend liturgy unless there are other people around your own age.
One thing that has been very encouraging to me at our parish is the level of engagement from the teens and people in their early 20s. Our parish is very peaceful, without gossiping or cliques, but a place where people honestly love Christ and each other, and the teens comment on that. We have very little in the way of any ministry specifically targeted towards teens or young adults, but they are well integrated into the parish. When their parents are sick, they'll call each other up and find rides to come to Church on their own. They push their parents to get there earlier on in Matins, to go to more Holy Week services. Vespers is full of people in their teens through mid-30s. It's a blessing to see them all there, not because anyone is making them come, but because they love it and want to be there.
Personally I enjoy talking with the old heads as much as the new heads, but I understand completely. It's always nice to have people you can directly relate to.
Wow, this is impressive! My parish is growing, but youth involvement is low. @@AmericanwrCymraeg
Our church has suddenly exploded. From barely 30 people at our last yearly meeting, we now have right 100 people, including 20 people under 30 NOT COUNTING THE CHILDREN .
Our choir went from more or less 5-8 regular participants to a solid 14.
We're growing, in a ridiculously small town.
It's beautiful.
@@JaguwarSims What area?
My eighth grade middle school teacher is an Orthodox Christian she even had an icon painting of Jesus on her wall
did it show the right sign of the cross?
@@simmat6419 yeah
@@user-hm4od3wu1z So it has the index finger extended and middle finger bent to meet the the index with the ring, pinky and thumb fingers meeting?
@@simmat6419 yeah. For some reason she called herself a Catholic but my other teacher told me she calls herself a Catholic because it means universal
@@user-hm4od3wu1zthat's because the name of the church is the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church
My son is Antiochian Orthodox,,,,for whatever reasons he was disenchanted with the Roman Catholic Church and became Orthodox. He really enjoys going there, so it must be working for him.
Probably the girl friend !
You should go with him sometime too Liturgy!
Did he not know about the Chaldean or Byzantine Rites? All the flavor of Orthodoxy without the Schism
@@arethmaran1279 hey bud your pope said it was a grave sin to convert the orthodox, so why would you not want to see them go? According to Vatican 2 we Orthodox have Christ in the Eucharist, so if we have Christ, why on earth would we need a pope?
We live in a very rural area. He drives a little over an hour for services. @@arethmaran1279
The growth is largely converts from ethnicities that don't have Orthodox heritage. Also the growth won't be seen until next census. Here in Texas, in Christmas 2021, the attendance at many OCA churches swelled at 2 to 4 times the normal size. The odd thing was, after the holidays, attendance didn't shrink back down. My local parishes have been baptizing dozens of converts and inquirer classes are 30 to 40 strong. Alot of ethic Orthodox such as Ethiopians and Russians have switched to English parishes since their children are more fluent in English and identify with it more than the immigrant catering churches, and it seems to have helped retain more of the youth as they turn to adults.
Also, nice to see a photo of the parish I was catchized at. I grew up Baptist but saw a lot of the traditions and reverence be replaced with modern marketing tactics that ultimately failed to retain youths and always appealed more to boomers. Becoming Orthodox felt more like returning to that little fervent baptist church in the woods that I remembered than finding something new.
This is significant
yeah i massively agree with this, i'm a catechumen at an orthodox church in Yorkshire, North England, and our class has had new members joining ever week or two. We've had a lot of people like myself, locals who were raised atheist or protestant and wanted something more, but interestingly we also have a few people from Oriental Orthodox denominations converting and, like you said, lots of people from orthodox ethnic groups moving to our english speaking parish because it's much more lively and involved
Dude, for real.
Just arguing about Christian history, I accidentally turn people on to orthodoxy, but I'm just trying to be honest about the history. I'm not even Christian or anything, but I have a high respect for history and being honest about history. Maybe eventually I'll come to some kind of belief, I'm not opposed to it, but if I was going to be a Christian, I could only ever be orthodox
As a fellow Texan Orthodox Christian and young catechumen, agreed! My church has about a dozen catechumen altogether, with new inquirers attending the liturgy and having conversations with us about the faith at coffee hour every Sunday. Even in my short time attending, I've had the blessing of seeing several inquirers I've shared meals with become catechumen. It's an amazing feeling going to church because you want to rather than because mother dearest said so (God bless her she meant well). It's also amazing getting to ask meaningful questions that are taken seriously, so seriously in fact that you aren't even considered a fully-fledged member of the faith until you've asked them and affirmed the answer via sacrament.
I say this because in my old baptist church (happily raised baptist), for the Lord's supper all you had to do was claim you were a Christian and His body and blood (in proper baptist form of unleavened wafer and grape juice) were yours. In contrast proper Orthodoxy demands, well, orthodoxy before you can even think of partaking from the chalice. That was a huge meaningful difference for me, a legitimate seriousness and reverence for something that is our God via the mysteries. No beef to the baptists as people though, overall they were a God-fearing folk that started me on the right path, I just needed more depth than they could offer.
John Wesley pointed this out several hundred years ago in the Anglican Church:
Every generation must find real faith for itself. It cannot simply be inherited. In the modern world, mere social conformity does not satisfy. Preaching and persuading that focuses on true conversion is necessary.
Also, once a person converts, it takes a faith community's commitment to true discipling to help that person walk through the struggles of this life.
While a glance at numbers might make one feel hopeless about the future, we must remember that the power of God is still moving in this world. Revival and conversion happen on his terms, by the empowerment of the Spirit. There are many young people who walk away from 'religion' but who later in life find real faith. That was my story.
Amen, amen!
It's like most churches totally forgot what discipling people means. They're just happy to get you dunked and see ya later.
There is so much more lifestyle adjustment and perspective adjustment, but people seem like they don't have time for other people.
well said man, I really like this take
Southern Baptist my whole life, 28 years. Becoming Orthodox next year. Hopefully my wife joins me and our 5 little ones.
Next year? After you complete the cults year long catechumen process? Gotta love how no one is save right away with the Orthodox cult, only when the priest decides. That's how power and cults work. Leave the cult before they dip you in their holy water and declare the holy spirit is NOW with you.
@@mikebastiatSalvation is a process which never happens in a moment. The Holy Ghost, as God, is everywhere present and fills everyone, yet there are different ways in which the Spirit may dwell in a man. One of those comes through unction as the Holy Bible says.
@@mikebastiatyou sound like a cultist yourself
@@mikebastiatWhat an odd criticism. We're a cult because we don't rush people through the process and baptize them right away, but actually teach them first?
@@mikebastiatCalling the oldest form of Christianity a 'cult' is really funny. Not to mention that in Orthodoxy priests, actually, refrain from telling anybody anytime that he/she is 'saved'. We leave that to our Lord and the Judgment day. On the other hand, we don't mind that our Protestant 'brothers' think that they are saved when they decide to become confirmed/ when they 'accept Jesus as as saviour'.
But, I need to say, it's a pretty poor marketing technique. Only God can save, through his only begotten son. The rest is advertising/ funding Protestant campaign.
As an anecdote, I am a convert that attends an OCA parish in Seacoast New England. Today at Divine Liturgy there were many crying babies among the families, which always brings my heart great joy. Many such cases! I suspect the polling number will look quite different in 15-20 years
I can say the same in my experience. Most of these babies are often from converts as well, not from “ethnic” orthodox
Ditto at my OCA parish. Most of us are "converts."
Same here, northern NJ OCA
Down here in SC you almost can't walk with how many little kids are running around on a Sunday morning!
@@krusader33 beautiful!
I'm not orthodox myself, but an orthodox friend invited me to a service in his small church and it was packed with a surprising amount of young adults and young kids. My friend said that when he first converted s few years back, it had only 20 people, but now has 200. I think what will make or break not just the Orthodox church but Christianity in the west in general is whether those with fire in their bellies can take control and take back the culture.
Even if the culture cannot be easily recovered and we must deal with the consequences of our forefathers sins and mistakes, we shall still live faithful Christian lives, working and loving and praying truly to mitigate the errors of our own generations. That's what it's all about baby, being better by grace of the Spirit despite all trials and longsuffering!
It is not a "service" like the Protestants but it is called Divine Liturgy in the East.
I'm a Catholic but have a lot of love and respect for our Eastern Orthodox brothers and sisters
Glory to Jesus Christ 🙏☦️❤️
@@Compulsive-Elk7103
"Service" is a perfectly Orthodox Word for what happens at Parish every Sunday.
Though I would advise putting "Divine" on the front of it.
Us in the west have a Spiritual Inheritance that has been co-opted by Schismatics and Heretics. We should reclaim it.
@@acekoala457 not true
@@Compulsive-Elk7103 yeah it is. Service refers to the general program of a church while the Divine Liturgy is something specific from it. So feel free to use "service" and "Divine Liturgy" but with respect to context.
I pray that this current period of decline in all of Christendom is followed by a good period of growth.
While Christianity will be a minority in the West by the end of the century, it is expected to be a majority in both Western and Central Africa and Southeast Asia by the end of the century as well from what I have heard.
The West has had its favor from God. Westerners are by-and-large not faithful people anymore. Christianity is spreading rapidly in Africa and Asia and is making limited inroads in the middle east.
That's how it goes. The Victorian era known for its arch conservatism was preceded by one of the greatest eras of irreligiosity and debauchery, with brothels and syphilis along side them thriving and secular ideology dominant.
Christianity is only on the decline in the West. In the East it is on fire and for everybody that leaves the face in the west there's nearly two who joined the faith
@@achaeanmapping4408 Virgin
Mexican Roman Catholic here, now Eastern Orthodox Catechumen! Glory to God!
As an orthodox christian deacon and seminarian. We too looked at this study and I think your comment on the end was spot on; " dying part and growing part of the church at the same time" unfortunately most of your video focused on the timeframe and study from 2010 to 2020 but I'd be willing to be these numbers would be different if looked at pre, during and post pandemic 2020 to 2023. There was a couple of articles made on this, I think one was new york times and there are others to look into for this last 3 ro 4 years growth.
The COVID Jay-Dyerite “converts” not being mentioned in this video immediately made me think he’s not looking at the actual trends in Orthodoxy.
@@Snails888 using dyerite makes you look silly. What doctrinal difference does Jay advocate out of line with Orthodoxy. I will wait
@@joseonwalking8666 he’s a nasty person, and I don’t engage with his disciples.
Hello! Are you a former parishioner at Holy Resurrection, and current seminarian at St. Tikhon's? I think I watched a video of you interviewing our priest from a few years ago on one of your other YT channels. Very impactful to me!
Happy to hear you were ordained to the diaconate! God be with you and your family!
A lot has changed. When I became Orthodox in 2006, the OCA still had a "diet Russian" sort of character but now she's finding more of her own identity. They're also starting to actually realize the importance of youth events that I wish we had in Tacoma growing up. If only the OCA and Antiochians could merge, we'd really see some growth and maybe better retention too!
In my small parish we had a baptism of twelve young adults this easter, all non-greeks. There is a retired priest from Greece who attended who said he never saw such a thing before. This is in South America.
This is a brave channel. I am impressed that the presenter asks such questions. I don't think Christians in general look at why they are in decline. So to ask the question is unusual.
Especially for being a Protestant yes it’s bold honest and respectful
As a longtime agnostic, for reasons that would take too long to describe here, I decided to attend a nearby Antiochian Orthodox Church - the only Eastern Orthodox Church in probably a 50 mile radius. It is a small church, but only 2 blocks from my where I live - which, against all odds, actually makes it the closest church to me, despite it being the only EO church in the area - maybe even the entire county.
Although the dimensions of the Church are relatively small, the community of Orthodoxy who attend each week is large, and incredibly vibrant. There are people of all ages - there are more kids, teens and young adults than those who are older. Our Priest and his wife are both young and their 6 kids are among the many other young people there. In my catechumen class, I'm one of 10 people. Although this may not necessarily seem large, it was honestly more than I would have expected. Most of the catachumens are either Protestant or Roman Catholic defectors, with only myself (that I'm aware of) representing a person from coming from an entirely non-religious background.
While I think the numbers may chart a decline, I think these are, as you astutely noted at the end, likely the result of a major declined in overtly ethnocentric strains of Eastern Orthodoxy, and likely more in major metropolitan areas. The reason then for why there seems to be this contradictory reporting of Orthodoxy becoming more of a big deal is that I think it actually is - it's not across the board, and that a disproportionate amount of growth is, I would suspect, in smaller to medium sized parishes, in smaller population centers. It doesn't look like they're growing, though, since the average is likely being dragged down heavily by the larger parishes that are bleeding devoted members at a rate that outstrips the growth of the many smaller groups. At some point, I think it may stop bleeding and the overall numbers may then begin to trend upward, but it will likely take a other decade or two to see how it all shakes out.
My sense is that Orthodoxy is on the cusp of new golden age - one that will blossom in the days when atheism jumps the shark and godlessness becomes the norm, and thus something, against which, the youth will eventually rebel. At that time, I think you'll see a strong correction and a movement back towards Christianity - and especially, that which is seen as those most ancient and traditional: Eastern Orthodoxy.
Great video, by the way!
I'm in the process of trying to convert, I am a very skeptical man, yet Orthodoxy consistently just makes sense. I've met so many Orthodox priests that make you feel so welcome and enlightened it's otherworldly, and they're so grounded in reality most the time, love Orthodoxy. Orthodoxy is proper religion.
Glory to God!
Come home to Rome
@@souljaboytellem888 sounds cute.
Not my experience, they like to play church more than Catholics do
@@souljaboytellem888no thanks. You can keep your heretical “pope”.
I was Pentecostal for a long time and we barely had new converts . Went to Orthodoxy and the converts practically walk into the door.
I am a Protestant to catholic convert who deeply considered and went to an Orthodox Church.
They are awesome! True brothers in Christ. I pray that the Catholics and orthodox may one day be United. Christ wants his body whole!!!
Pray for us brother, and for the unity of all.
Christ has One body and it is completely Whole. The catholics are just outside of that Body.
yeah sorry bud but most Orthodox dont consider Catholics to be anywhere near them.
Are you implying that Christ’s body can split? Sounds heretical to me.
The body is whole and forever has been and forever will be.
Blessed are the few Roman Catholics who drop their pope and come back to the original church.
I converted to Orthodoxy in 1998, while taking classes at Southwestern Baptist Seminary.
I was enrolled at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary when I converted.
Wow, interesting! What specifically make you convert?
Larp
@@juandoming6688what?
Dear Joshua,
I have been looking for this superb overview of the Orthodox Churches in The United States. I had managed to glean the decline which you have drawn together, especially among the Greek Orthodox. But, I also knew of the the steady flow of converts. What I lacked was the relationship between the decline of the ethnic segment compared to the growth of the convert segment. You have put all this together very well and completely.
Thank you, Joshua, for your continued good and excellent work in the vineyard of the Lord. You are worth your weight in gold.
Sincerely In Christ Jesus,
Larry Clarence Lewis
Ontario, Canada.
Thanks Larry, I'm glad to hear the video provided you what you were looking for.
I just converted and attened my first service last week. The church was packed.
What do you mean? Usually conversion means baptism, and that takes some time between your first visit and when you're actually baptized.
@@St.MartinofToursPrayToGodForUsMaybe he means deciding that it’s the true faith. of course, he’ll still have to go through the catechumen process.
I’m an Orthodox convert nearly 35 years now and I think you have done an excellent job with this video. I had witnessed in the past the ethnic barrier, not intentionally erected, but nevertheless difficult to pierce for some and unwelcoming to others. I’ve also seen the opposite as our current Greek Orthodox Church says the Lord’s Prayer in English, Greek, Serbian, Romanian, Ukrainian, Arabic, Aramaic, Spanish and Filipino. Our Priest was Ordained in the OCA and the Serbian Church we attend out of State has a Greek priest. Long story short the Orthodox Church in America is finding its feet as the diaspora are no longer the primary communicants and we have great examples, Like Fr. Josiah Trenham and Fr. Andrew Stephen Damick showing us the way forward.
God smashes kings and gets his people out of Egypt.
@@mikebastiatWeird considering that kings are the closest to god by their divine right
@@warcrimeconnoisseur5238 Ouch. Someone doesn't read God's word. Kings are sin and a perversion of God's order. God tears them down precisely because they claim to be gods and to have "divine right." The "divine right and kings" is a doctrine of men, not God.
@@mikebastiatChrist is King of Kings.
@@mikebastiat That's american drivel, worthless exoteric interpretation, there is a reason why Europe, who had kings, is not broken while every nation that had a system made by man is a picture of Sodom. Kings only were heretical when they proclaimed to be higher than god, even the church in it's early life said that they are beneath the kings and holy knights because that's right
Our parish has seen a significant amount of growth, but it has certainly accelerated over the past few years since 2020. When I first arrived at the parish over a decade ago, we had about 50 people. Now, we have more than that number of kids in our homeschool co-op and our midweek morning Liturgy often has more people than Sunday liturgies did a decade ago. Most of the people coming in are sincere Christians that have found the ground they were standing on before to be unstable and who are looking for something more grounded. They're kind, balanced, loving towards each other, naturally inclined towards outreach, and very joyful. There are some with some rough edges coming in, but the Church is the best place for those to get smoothed out.
My whole family was just received into the Holy Orthodox Church this weekend. Glory To Jesus Christ!!!!
I would be so interested to see what happened to the Orthodox numbers because of Covid. That's when I found Orthodoxy online. Every couple of weeks we have new Catechumens. We came from a Southern Baptist background and my family is becoming Greek Orthodox.
Yeah, the timing of that census was unfortunate and is very likely a statistical outlier compared to previous ones. Post-Covid is its own animal now, and I have anecdotally seen a greater rate of interest from people post-Covid.
@@MrKneeVTiming was unfortunate, but it will be that much sweeter when the 2030 census comes out (should the Orthodox faith continue to grow).
As someone with paternal Orthodox roots, I am persuaded that in many churches ethnic solidarity outweighs fidelity to the gospel of Jesus Christ, and there is little if any effort to bring the gospel to unbelievers. I believe this insularity is a recipe for losing the young who will find few reasons to stay with a faith so bound up with an old world culture in North America. I love spanakopita, moussaka, and baklava, but I don’t need to go to church to find them.
I love those too. But I love salvation more, and that's why I am glad I found my way to Holy Orthodoxy.
The problem is that most people aren't interested. There are many orthodox youtubers who try to present the orthodox faith in America and it's differences in comparison. Fr josiah trenham is doing an orthodox catechism along with multiple courses. It's the fact that many have protestant and catholic preconception and don't see the differences as something big and are comfy where they are.
That’s the great problem of orthodoxy. It’s too nationalistic/ethnic oriented. Catholicisms universalism is superior in the attraction of converts.
@@MrMustang13 not really. Catholics use latin, a dead language, in their mass in EVERY COUNTRY. This makes the average person unable to understand anything from it, this including the citizens of the country you are trying to convert. Orthodox translate into the native tongue their chants, hymns, songs, prayers, liturgy along with multiple religious texts besides the scriptures of course, since we want the potential converts to feel like they are part of it. This is similar to St Methodius and Cyril converting slavic people into christianity, even being responsible for the cyrillian alphabet. We want them to feel like it's their religion just as much as theirs, using elements in their traditions to structure a community while still maintaining the gospel. Also, Rome has a "supreme" leader that's always chosen and lives in the Vatican, a city state, orthodox are decentralised in structure, with patriarchs of equal authority leading their country's jurisdiction, with the patriarch of constantinopole just being first among equals since he represents the church as a whole. Also, considering the way the kevel of religiousity among catholics along with their presence is falling as a multicultural mindset is instilled, nationalism is unironically the least of their problem. Father Dumitru Staniloaie, an important orthodox priest who translated the Philokalia, even said that nationalism can be both good or bad, it only really being good as a way to transmit the christian message, it being the important part, however he pointed out that antinationalism is worse since it goes against the natural way.
@@stefanspinu434 I mean that hasn’t been the case since they’ve used vernacular in mass and if you’ve ever been to a catholic mass there is nothing no body doesn’t understand. There maybe be one or two prayers in Latin if that. The Latin tradition is just that, the tradition. But there’s no ethnically Latin element to the faith. There’s certain Catholic Churches that attract certain ethnic groups, for example there’s a Catholic Church near me that has a lot of Vietnamese people that go to it, but i as a non vietnamese person wouldn’t feel out of place there at all because there is no ethnic element to the mass. Where as a Ukrainian would be out of their element at a Greek Orthodox Church. Or I as an American wouldn’t feel comfortable at a Romanian Orthodox Church, as I’m not Romanian. You can say that that the tradition doesn’t get in the way of the message but that really isn’t the case at orthodox churches. They’re ethnic clubs.
I am a Greek Orthodox convert from the '90s in a medium-sized church in the Midwest. We are gaining converts regularly, but losing the kids of Boomer Greeks. In short the parish is becoming less and less ethnically Greek. I keep trying to learn a little Modern Greek, but no one else seems interested (in the old days the Greek-American kids went to Greek School twice a week). Interestingly, Biblical Greek has never been rigorously taught, even though the liturgy used to be entirely in Greek and we still use it about 30% in services.
A Divine Liturgy of Saint John Chrysostom entirely in Koine Greek would be absolutely unreal, for those willing to learn.
On an infrequent weekday liturgy the amount of Greek goes way up, it not to 100%. Our priest usually reads the Gospel in Greek (also in English) on Sundays even though he knows almost no one can follow it.@@microcolonel
@@microcolonel koine is pretty much identical to modern greek so if you'd like to see it your best bet is to travel to Greece
I was baptized this year in the Eastern Orthodox Church (ROCOR). God bless all of you. I hope you find your way home.
We just had 3 new converts in our parish recently. One of them asked me to be their sponsor. And we had our newborn baby girl 3 weeks ago. She’ll be baptized before the end of the year. I was baptized Oct 2021. My wife is not yet there, but she’s open to the Orthodox Church and loves our Divine Liturgy.
We both came from the Assemblies of God. (Really, a mix of Pentecostal, Baptist, Full Gospel, and Non-Denominational congregations)
I’m also a PK.
I’m glad to be home. ☦️
I have converted my family From baptist to Russia orthodox this past year, our monetary has grown tremendously in the past year with young families ❤ my faith has never been stronger 😊
My experience regarding Orthodox demographics at our parish level:
Conversion rate is very high. There are lots of Millennial converts who are now having many children (often four or five). These children are around ten years old at the eldest, so we do not know how the Anglo-American cradle Orthodox will turn out when they grow up. Weddings are rare, as most of these converts were married couples who joined the church together.
There is a large and growing number of male Gen Z converts, and a not insignificant but relatively very small number of female Gen Z converts. There is a growing gender imbalance, as there are many young men who only want to marry Orthodox women, yet very few Orthodox women can be found. I have only witnessed one Orthodox wedding in the five years I have been attending Orthodox churches, but I have seen many baptisms and chrismations.
Lastly, there are the ethnic cradles. These are the Greeks, Russians, Lebanese, and other immigrant communities that used to make up the vast majority of the church and are now less and less prevalent. Compared to the Millennial converts, their birth rates are very low, often only one or two children. A small core of the ethnic cradle children are staying Orthodox, but the vast majority leave the faith at adulthood. Foreign immigration helps keep the ethnic cradle numbers above zero, but it is not sustainable.
All three of these groups have some means of growth, but all of them also have challenges to overcome. The Millennials must raise their children to remain Orthodox; the Gen Zers must manage to find wives so they can have children at all; the immigrants must retain their identity or pave the way for American converts to succeed them.
Identical to what I’ve seen on the East Coast when I attend
The Orthodox Church has never seen downward growth as an absolute Goal. Yes it is important to Raise your children in the Faith but much of the Early History was facedowns against Pagans when one wasn't facing God. The young Gen Z men, I am one of them, represents a lateral growth that is just as necessary as Vertical Growth.
As long as we don't fall into despair.
It seems to me that the internet is what's driving these millennials and Gen Z to Orthodoxy, and there is certainly a strong presence of Orthodox people active online. Also, I think that the communist/globalist left is inadvertently driving people towards Orthodoxy as well. By this I mean, they have stigmatized displaying or having pride in one's European heritage, as well as pride in the country and patriotism. I think that the ethnic and cultural components of Orthodoxy are actually part of the draw for young people, who want to participate in a greater historical and ethnic heritage, but either feel they cannot or do not know how to because of the climate of stigmatization that Democrats have created. What do you think about that?
Similar thing in Brazil, lots of young gen z and millennials, close to no young women.
I moved to Canada in 2008 when my daughter was 3 years old. Back home in Lebanon i didn't used to attend the Sunday service except occasionally and mainly i used to attend the Easter week services due to the beautiful songs and liturgy. My wife is also Orthodox and she was like me. When we moved to Canada we started attending the church to be closer to the community and my daughter used to attend the Sunday school. My daughter ended up being a veru active member of the community and she never miss a liturgy and she is even a member of the main choir in the church.
One problem I have noticed in my time in the church is that parents don’t really live their faith at home with the children included in the prayers, fast, celebrating the feast of the church, etc. I know this because I’m guilty as well in my failures.
Per a Palestinian priest in California, this is the biggest thing. If the parents aren't teaching the faith, living it, or being good examples, their children will leave.
After all, why would they believe sincerely what their parents clearly do not?@@mitchellcolvin2028
My Orthodox parish is bursting at the seams, legitimately wondering how we'll all squeeze in come Pascha, haha! Nearly all adults are converts; but there are loads of kids, had a triple baptism just last weekend. Is my church an outlier? Don't know, but I'm happy to be here.
Same at my parish. Booming
My Antiochian parish too. My cousin and I had a private baptism this year but otherwise our priest is baptizing up to 7 at a time. He did baptize up to 14 at a time when the numbers really increased in 2020-2021 but he’s opted for just doing them more frequently as the services would get so long. The parish has gone from about 350 before the pandemic to almost 650 with conversions and births (Father churches a baby about twice a month I’d say), and we have recently been blessed with a second priest. We have a ton of catechumens right now and we average 6 new faces a week. Glory to God
Glory to God!
Same at my parish.
Mine has the same "problem".
I've been living in the Netherlands since 2013, and I'm lucky enough to have a Dutch (!!) Orthodox church near me. It falls under the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople and our small but growing parish is a very diverse mix of Greek, Serbian, Romanian, Russian, Ukrainian, Arabic, and Dutch faithful. Divine Liturgy is in a mix of local vernacular and Greek. The Parish has only existed since 2018, and we've since gone from worshipping in the attic of an Old Roman Catholic church to having our own building (a converted community center).
Waar woon je?
Praying for growth in the Orthodox Church. Be fruitful and multiply!
Convert to Eastern Orthodoxy from the Evangelical Side of the fence. I wasn't seeking something old, I was seeking something timeless. And here is where I found it. With all the competing private interpetations of the Bible, I thought I should read what the early Church said. And what I found, was nothing like what I was taught. Either the men who were taught by St. Paul and St. John were wrong or I was wrong. And well, I think the answer on who was wrong is obvious.
Hello
Could you recommend a few of the early church fathers that I can read up on please?
Thanks
@@AlrightDave Clement of Rome, who was a disciple of St. Paul (he is even mentioned by Paul). Ignatius of Antioch and Polycarp were disciples of the Apostle John. Ignatius in particular was striking. Polycarp was most likely the Bishop of Smyrna when St John addressed in the book of Revelation. These three are the oldest, and were trained directly by the Apostles. Another notable father is Justin Martyr.
@@mamaliamalak7825 thank you
My wife has never really been part of any church. I was Lutheran (ELCA) but never Confirmed. My wife and I have not been in any church for decades.
Finally we decided, one day, to go to our local Antiochian parish and never looked back. It's been a year, and we made tremendous strides in our faith, and are currently catechumens. We've been active in our small parish; the best we can and it's been very fulfilling. Because our parish is rather small, our priest gets a lot more time with all of us on a person level, so we are very blessed in that respect. Our Father, believes that my wife and I are ready to be received but I've been taking my time to learn and grow, but we finally may be received with other catechumens this Christmas!
Welcome! Christmas is a wonderful time to be received!
Glory to God!
I was a associate pastor at a baptist evangelical church. I left recently to pursue orthodoxy. I am going to a local parish and feel so fulfilled. I feel more connected to the Lord.
Having icons of Christ in my home have also been so fulfilling.
I longed for sound doctrine that was divorced from American socio political hegemony.
I longed for worship that didn’t sound like a love song .
I longed for leadership that can grace itself back to the apostles.
I long for the Eucharist. I start my classes soon and can’t wait to be confirmed.
I can’t wait to use my talents to help the church.
Welcome home! May God continue to bless your journey.
I'd seriously say Orthodoxy is receiving more converts than anyone else, but we're also bleeding alot of ethnic people who have lost their faith; though pretty much everyone especially Roman Catholics have the same problem. It'll be interesting to see how these statistics play out
Exactly my friend ! We got our religion by tradition and one day we should do our choice before God (on earth of course) !
I’m a convert to Orthodoxy. The reason I converted was upon studying the earliest Christian church I realized that my church had nearly everything wrong. I compared the ancient churches and concluded that Eastern Orthodoxy was the least innovative and was a direct continuation of the church founded by Jesus Christ and His apostles. I don’t believe someone can read the apostolic fathers without realizing there’s something horribly wrong with their doctrine and becoming either Catholic or Orthodox. I used to be a Southern Baptist btw.
I'm oriental orthodox and I am very happy that more people are seeing the theological flaws in protestantism. However, just keep in mind that eastern orthodoxy is flawed on one thing and one thing only: christology. The 2 church bodies are working to fix the scrutiny between them but just remember who is in the wrong here.
@marksawires6178 well that is what you think because you are from them. But as a protestant, I am trying to figure out what the creeds are. What we need is for the two of you to have more open discussions with us.
@@jollybucket669 I absolutely agree! Say an issue of faith and we can have a discussion
honestly I wish I could talk to someone for a while and learn through conversation. because i have read a book or too. and i went to Greece and Russia and walked into cathedrals and saw the icons. but i haven't had a conversation with someone who was orthodox who actually knew the theology and stuff. for me that is what i want. I could ask a lot of things but i think comment section in video is not the best is there a way we could take?
@marksawires6178
@@jollybucket669I would recommend finding a local priest. That is the best option
Excellent episode! Thanks for the great research.
I'm an 18 year old greek orthodox christian. Throughout my childhood, I went to church maybe 2-3 times a year as my family wasn't entirely engaged in it. I eventually became an atheist for roughly 3 years and hated all forms of Christianity and religion. I then found Christianity again and specifically orthodoxy again. I now attend Church weekly and pray and read the bible daily. I continuously talk to my family about Orthodoxy and push them to go to church and read the bible. I am Greek Orthodox however I do prefer the Russian Orthodox Church as it seems to be less flawed as of lately.
Did you have to go through cathechism before you could start communing again? My priest told me I start right away as long as I receive confession right before the Liturgy. I've seen that in other places they may require already baptised-chrismated people to take some classes.
Thank you for this Joshua, I am a member of the Russian Orthodox Church in Britain, belonging to a mission parish north of London. I think that there are many lessons for us here in the UK. Personally, I prefer to say that I became Orthodox as part of my spiritual journey, the word "convert" is, to my way of thinking at least, not true, I was a Christian before I joined the Orthodox Church and plan on staying that way until they carry me out in my box. I also thank God for my spiritual journey before I came to Orthoodxy. Having said all that, we in Britain are facing a spiritual challenge in an ever increasing secular society. The only two Christian traditions in the UK which are growing are firstly the Evangelical/Charismatic/Pentecostal tradition (I myself was Pentecostal) and secondly The Orthodox Tradition. Clearly the two worship styles are different, but both have a conservative theology. People who are turning to Christ in Britain seem more attracted to the teaching rather than the worship. The challenge for those of us in the Orthodox Tradition in Britain is that we have two mission goals: one is to be a chaplaincy for people from Orthodox Majority countries who come to live here and two to be a mission to the indigenous population. The Romanian Orthodox Church is the fastest growing tradition in the UK and has both Romanian language/Romanian and English language/English langauge parishes, a model that prehaps we should seek to develop further in the UK.
So your wonderful Pentecostal heritage now history and long forgotten ?
@@michaelciccone2194what a strange question. Perhaps I did not make myself clear when I said I saw becoming Orthodox was part of my spiritual journey? I thank God for every part of my Christian journey. Why should my Pentecostal heritage be long forgotten? Did you not read my point about the only two Christian Traditions that are growing in Britain? One is the Evangelical/Pentecostal/Charismatic and the other is The Orthodox Tradition. I apologise if i did not make myself clear, please forgive me.
Seriously my brother.... are you joking... Russian orthodox church. Do you believe the below statement from your billionaire patriarch (yes your patriarch is a billionaire):
'The Church realizes that if someone, driven by a sense of duty and the need to honor his oath, stays loyal to his vocation and dies while carrying out his military duty, then he is without any doubt doing a deed that is equal to sacrifice. He sacrifices himself for others. And therefore, we believe that this sacrifice washes away all the sins that a person has committed'
He has literally invented a new method to get sins forgiven and that to without Jesus.
@@johnnybravo19871and how much of Patriarch Kyrill's writings have you read? You would be surprised what Patriarch Kyrill has to say on spiritual matters. However my guess is that you were just fed that quote by some tabloid newspaper which probably told you that Russia is a Communits Country (it isnt Communism was overthrown there over thirty years ago) Which raises the question of American Evangelicals who prayed with, and laid hands on Donald Trump. This is a man who lies when he can't get his own way, sends a mob into Washington to take over the country by force because he is so narcissistic that he cant bear the thought that people dont like him, and who has the approval of so called "Christians" who think he is wonderful. Whatever HH Patriarch Kyrill's faults are (and since he has a confessor, he clearly recognises he is a sinner) he does not think it acceptable to grope women, nor is he openly adulterous, flaunting himself in front of his wife. Patriarch Kyrill does not pay women he has commited adultery with to keep quiet and have American Christians treat him as if he were the Messiah. I have not called you "brother" because if you are a supporter of Trump, then I would question why you lack spiritual discernment. Trump is clearly a type of The AntiChrist, and since The Apocalypse implies that The AntiChrist will deceive even The Elect, the fact that American Christians, so called, have this love affair with this Truly Evil Man who does not ev.en resect The Bible, suggests that he may be more than just a type. Patriarch Kyrill believes that Russia is fighting a defensive war. I am an historian by training and I can understand his thinking. Instead of which, in a time of a Cost of LIving Crisis, the government of the country I live in, gives £9 billion to Ukraine to kill other human beings, like them, like us all, made in the Image of God, something which I as a Christian find totally offensive. And as for people dying to save others, in The Orthodox Church there are many who we honour who gave their lives in The Second World War specifically to save Jewish people from The Holocaust, St Maria Skobtsova, The Archbishop of Zakynthos and the clergy of the Church of St Cyrill and St Methodius spring to mind. When you religion produces people like this and stops worshipping the AntiChrist, then I might consider whether or not you are my "brother"
@@johnnybravo19871
ROCOR is functionally independent from Moscow, always has been. It just Commemorates Kyrill and many Bishops in ROCOR have denounced his speeches regarding Ukraine. My ROCOR Bishop is the Spiritual Brother of Met. Onuphory in Ukraine so we pray for him at every Liturgy.
I try to explain this to people all the time. They think we are exploding. We are not.
Fr David (good to see you here!), I think that the numbers will look quite a bit different in a few years. I know many of our parishes have seen large influxes of people in the past few years, to an extremely noticeable extent. I baptized 27 people last year, at our relatively small parish. Something has changed in the last few years. Granted, many of the people coming in are coming as refugees from the culture or different Christian groups that have proved to be unstable and are coming in with some inherited instability and in some cases anger at their past, and there are some times rough edges to be smoothed out. But I see a lot of that happening, too. People coming in hurt and unstable, and stabilizing.
I do think that the video is right in that Orthodoxy that is merely a part of an ethnic identity is declining sharply at the same time that a lot of new people are coming in. The composition of the Church may look a lot different in a few years, but I'm seeing significant signs of growth.
Anyways, good serving with you in Phoenix!
@@AmericanwrCymraeg I'm assuming you are an Orthodox priest. Yes, I have baptized many as well. We are also small but have been growing like crazy. I have hope. Especially since so many young men are coming. But the numbers of converts don't come close to the amount of children leaving. It isn't just an ethnic issue either. The children of converts are also leaving in droves.
,jesus is the main central figure of bible,didn`t agree with me we have find a bible with his name,where does jesus talked about trinity.
I converted from Southern Baptist to Antiochian Orthodox last year. I even went to a Baptist seminary. It is truly worshipping God for those who take their faith and relationship with the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit seriously. Amen. ☦️
,jesus is the main central figure of bible,didn`t agree with me we have find a bible with his name,where does jesus talked about trinity.
God is the central figure of the whole scripture; Christ in the Gospel is referred to as God several times (John 1:1; 20:28; Acts 20:28; Rom 9:5; Phil 2:6; Col 2:9; 1 Tim 3:15-16; 2 Thess 1:12; Titus 2:13; 2 Pet 1:1; Heb 1:8; 1 John 5:20) and also as the Lord; the Holy Spirit speaks for and acts as God. Throughout the First Covenant, God makes it clear to Moses that he alone is God and is the only one to be worshiped. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are all God because all act, speak, and are worshiped as God, and there is only one God; hence three persons of one God, a trinity. @@lufhopespeacefully2037
@@lufhopespeacefully2037 Matthew 28:19-20
Back in the early nineties I only knew one thing about the Orthodox Church when I walked in, which was something I had learned back in college and that was at some point in the service they said "the doors the doors let us attend the doors" and at that point all non Orthodox were to leave the church. So I did at that time, I learned afterwards that leaving was no longer required. Even though I didn’t know Arabic which was mostly spoken in the service I knew without a doubt I was home.
Would be very curious to see data since 2020. A lot of the growth I’ve both seen and heard all over has been in the last 2-3 years.
Yes. This year my parish had a reception of 12 converts at pascha, such a thing never happened before according to our retired priest.
Edit: This is South America but in westernized countries the pattern seems to be similar. We also see the ethnic descendants leaving the faith, and conversion by non-ethnics.
Another great video. Thank you!
One area of Christians that is growing in our area of California are those who do home church. The ones I know probably fall within the unchurch genre. We do have a Greek and Serbian Orthodox Church here in the Amador-Calaveras County CA area. Fact is many churches also have lower birth rates.
,jesus is the main central figure of bible,didn`t agree with me we have find a bible with his name,where does jesus talked about trinity.
> The side that's declining can only decline so far, but in the side that's growing, the potential is limitless.
This is a solid observation, and a great ending to the video. Thanks! :)
It's hard to keep up with all those numbers but I really enjoy your post.
As an Orthodox priest, I really appreciate this video (I tend to like RTH videos in general). I do think that some of the data is outdated and not as reflective of the current sate of affairs, post-COVID. The general trend since 2020 for almost all of the Orthodox churches both in my area and Diocese (OCA Diocese of the South) has been growth. You might say exponential growth that has far outstripped past growth in our typically-small parishes. Even so, there is much good thought presented here to chew on, and Terry Mattingly definitely nails the big, problematic issues on the head. Our greatest challenge as Orthodox Christians seems to be to help our kids stay connected to Christ within the Church. This is actually somewhat "easier" if you are blending ethnic identity into it, but that is a dangerous, two-edged sword that has grown into a problem in the US in the past, where being Greek or Russian or whatever was the most important thing, and where being a Christian was a much lesser concern. The real challenge is (through repentance) to learn to love Christ and His Church within the Orthodox tradition in such a way that our kids want what we have and will live it out themselves, even if they have to go through "revert" experience to find it.
Very well done. As a convert to Orthodoxy of many years now, I appreciate your balanced and well-explained video.
You sir have twice earned my respect for your understanding of us. God bless you!
The two different groups, one declining and one growing, is accurate my parish baptizes a lot for its size every year. It’s English speaking and friendly and centered around the faith. But I also hear of more ethnic, “preserving the diaspora” churches declining rapidly. Some hierarchs care about diaspora and the old world, others (such as the newly enthroned metropolitan Saba) declare us a missionary church and seek growth in retaining the young. It is a shift of power and the changing of guard.
I like that you are both correct and update! However, I need some more practice in listening to your " speed", but I am improving, so I will come back to you soon! Thank you!
Thank you,Joshua⭐🌹⭐
7:09 "ROC" is moreso a term used in designating the Romanian Orthodox Church, a shortened term for the Russian Orthodox Church is the Moscow Patriarchate.
I’ve heard the opposite especially, amongst evangelicals flocking to Eastern Orthodoxy!
And even more so to Catholicism. The question is how many people are being polled? Because I never have been nor anyone that I know.
@@MrMustang13the OCA had a poll for converts this spring. I think there were only a few hundred responders, but the numbers I think were representational of things. I forgot to respond to it myself. I'm sure you can find it somewhere online. Most converts last year were young men from Evangelical backgrounds
@@MrMustang13 After they experience the mockery of the Mass going to post Vatican II masses they'll leave!
The point he is making is that converts are flocking to Orthodoxy but the numbers can look bad overall because the nominals in the ethnic parishes are declining (i.e. their children aren't attending). Protestantism is nearly dead, eventually Orthodoxy will all that will be left because it is Christ's true church.
great video!
Great video. Well balanced and informative. As a recent convert, I identity completely with the reasons listed people have for converting. I am also blessed to attend a large and thriving Greek Orthodox parish. On any given Sunday, it seems half the congregation are kids under 18 and a majority of them are young children. The sound of babies and toddlers is as normal a sound as the chanting. We were baptized in a group of 8 and baptisms and chrismations happen throughout the year! Glory to God for all things! ☦️
I can't speak for the rest of the States, but my church in North Idaho has gone from around 50 people to about 200 in just the last 2 years, they even had to expand the church to make more room. My county is also one of the fastest growing in the nation so that could explain a lot, but a lot of new laymen are converts as well.
I remember attending an OCA mission and it was much smaller than any church I’ve been to, being run out of the back of a bookstore. The amount that were converts, particularly from the local uni, was higher than my experience in the Catholic parishes I’ve been in, where most of us were cradle Catholics.
Such excellent content & well-presented. Active EO believer here.
My son and I converted earlier this year ❤we were definitely trying to get to the trunk of the tree and we found it!
Despite my disagreements with Eastern Orthodoxy, I’m happy to seee some Christian churches finding growth in our atheist era.
Using 2020 as the final reference year is a bit misleading as this was a Covid year and so you would definitely expect less attendees
This is an interesting video. It certainly feels like on the ground level that parishes are growing!
1:01 that top right picture is St. Seraphim Cathedral in Dallas. I’ve been there for a liturgy. It’s absolutely beautiful (the church itself and the liturgy)
Also, I have been attending a Greek Orthodox Church for several weeks now and expect to officially become a catechumen soon. Wouldn’t have found the Church without the Internet!
My the Lord keep you tightly.
"Perhaps, there is a growing section of the church and a declining one." That is correct. The foreign ethnically centric Orthodox churches are declining mainly because they speak different languages and practice foreign customs. They're not acknowledging the fact that they're in America and are preaching to Americans. The OCA on the other hand, after the coof came to town, has seen explosive growth. So much so that we've had to streamline our conversion process, missions have had to meet in hotels, and our monasteries had to start scheduling pilgrimages because so many people were going to visit them regularly. The problem with the current census is that it's pre-coof. Post-coof, I suspect, will be much different.
I’m a recent convert to Orthodoxy. My comment is another topic. I have friends from Guatemala who have a Spanish-speaking evangelical church. They are actively looking for a church for their teens to attend. Because their teens have assimilated and speak fluent English and are not so very interested in maintaining their immigrant culture. I had another friend in a different city who wanted to become Orthodox but Liturgy was in Greek, all the parishioners spoke Greek, and even though they were nice to her, she felt very isolated there. Immigrant-centered churches are likely to lose parishioners and not gain any
All immigrants had churches that went through this process: Catholics, Lutherans, Baptists, Presbyterians. The difference is that the Orthodox represent a very different culture & world-view. It’s difficult to adapt to mainstream Americanism. And those that do often ghettoize the church & water-down the faith.
Thanks for all these videos. Would love similar in-depth look at differences between Bible Translations
Excellent video ☦️
Could you PLEASE do a video on the neocatechumenal way in the catholic church? I am a member and it is wonderful!
Every Orthodox parish I have visited or know of through a friend or acquaintance is exploding with a healthy population full of young adult couples with children and have catechumen and inquirer classes with anywhere from 10-40 active catechumens.
OCA, ROCOR, Serbian, Antiochian, and Bulgarian parishes in particular are blossoming and creating new missions. The Greek parishes under the GOA are dying the most. Their bishops (and a couple in OCA for that matter) are the reason for the decline in those jurisdictions.
I would encourage any disenchanted or unchurched Protestant to attend a liturgy at a parish near you, especially a ROCOR, OCA, Antiochian, or Serbian parish. You will be shocked at not only how beautiful and Spirit filled the services and people are but at how many young, informed, and actively engaged converts are filling these parishes.
The next round of research over the next couple years is going to reveal a profound increase in Orthodoxy that is going to drive even more in search of the historical Church of Jesus Christ.
Gee, I didn't know Blinkist offered such a great service! Am I ever glad I researched the Orthodox Church.
Great and insightful commentary by Dr. John G. Pangiotou. Thank you for sharing his wisdom and theological expertise. My favorite comment is that this is who we should be 24/7 not just inside our churches. We need to expand our vision as Orthodox Christians of as he says: Christians outside the walls of our churches. As a Greek Orthodox Christian - I would stress that we must be on fire for God's Holy Word. Orthodox Christians in America do not know their Bibles the way they do in other Christian denominations. This is a wound that must be addressed. We need to be on fire for God - and how can we be on fire for God is we do not even have the "sword of the spirit." So much to learn from each other - I embrace other churches - I learn from them - they enrich my faith walk. I understand that God is "mystery." I also know that we are called to have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. This is real, tangible, and life-changing. To be known and to know Him is at the very core of being Christian.
We have had 5 new Orthodox parishes open in the last 8 years in my state and all of them are full of children. Full at some to the point we are going to require two more churches soon.
Bravo, but what i guess, is that 99% are eastern european origins poeples, i was in Nice (french city) first time entered an orthodoxe church, They were all russians
Surprised ROCOR wasn’t mentioned more. I know they have been a church that while still declining seems to have convert parishes and online attention, and not always positive. I think they are one to watch in the US.
ROCOR and OCA needs to merge. With my being born in Russia I still have that Russian soul, but with me living in America for such a long time I understand the English services much better than services in church Slavonic. Russian services are deeper but harder to understand. English services seem simpler but are much more easily accessible. Lastly, there are barely any converts in my local ROCOR parish, whereas in my local OCA parish there are barely any Russians. So, if they merged, they could offer services in both languages. I don't know if that would be practical but seems like a good ideal.
Great presentation as always. I hope and pray for the growth of the church catholic
Excellent analysis, thank you - all clergy should watch this.
I converted from traditional catholic recently. I never thought I would leave the Catholic Church. But I cannot and will not bring my children (6 so far) to novus ordo heresy. I am still learning, it has been heartbreaking leaving the catholic but orthodoxy is beautiful and brings me peace and a lot more consistency in practice of my faith. Our local orthodox parish went from 70 people to over 300 since Covid. People are joining at every great feast. And they stay.
As a Catholic you don't have to attend Novus Ordo. I attend a Byzantine Catholic Church.
I'd mention that, 2010 to 2020 is the time when internet atheism was at it's height.
From what I've seen, there's no shortage even here in the rural south for young people looking for a spiritual life. It's just that they turn away from their protestant church and instead turn towards other beliefs(everything from Islam to new age to neo-pagan).
It's also relevant to mention(or mention that I'm mistaken) that many diocese have big, liberal-minded cities like New York as their home bases, a tough landscape for any church to survive in. From what I've heard, my own diocese (ACROD) has quite a few desolate parishes in cities and towns up north. It's hard to envision that when my own mission parish here in the south is growing quite rapidly.
We have had 20 convert new members in our church this year alone. I became Orthodox in 2016 my husband is one of the new members
We held a retreat last week and so anyone with our visiting priest said his congregation has 40 new catechumens this year..... Mostly our young men and young families.
I think overall we're growing, but some larger cities (and even smaller cities like mine) are flourishing more with converts. We make up around 6M, which is pretty small, so we rely on converts to help us grow in America. My church had maybe 50 attendees weekly to around 100-110 in just 3 years.
can you break down the converts?
are the converts from other churches, or from no religion? That would be a good video to make, talking about rates of converts in different churches and by region if possible
I attend a EO Church in Virginia and a solid half of the congregation are converts. Tons of kids and babies here too. The future really is bright for EO here in the US from everything I’ve personally seen
Good vid informative
Wonderful video,
I attend a Greek Cathedral in Dallas Texas. The church is always backed with converts and cradles. Communion takes over a half hour. But it's easy to forget that we are an exception. It has to come from the people. The body of Christ. Some of this is Sunday school, a lot parents thinking they are done after baptism. I think a big reason (At least in GOARCH)is Greek Americans are having smaller families., We are not replacing the yiayia's and papous.
Krindatch conducted a survey previously that counted man-hours in worship. OCA parishioners outdid Greek Orthodox by some huge margin, like 4 to 1. The recent massive decline in Greek church attendance is due to the fact that so many claiming membership were only nominal. Covid gave them a reason to quit coming and they are happy to lose their loose affiliation to churches they felt connected to by ties of guilt. They were not parishioners who were enthusiastic by any description.
To my experience, GOA church life is a pale beige version of orthodoxy adapted extensively to suburban white upper-middle class America offering very little to converts who don’t resemble the description to which assimilating Greek Americans have aspired. Their in-group pride and extroverted shallowness repulses many who seek a more intimate and intense experience of traditional faith in the Orthodox manner. Large beige churches filled with pews (often fairly empty) may present a familiar picture to newcomers, successfully mitigating the inherent otherness of Orthodox worship as compared to Protestantism, but it doesn’t play to the strengths of the Tradition.
The problem with Greek churches lies in their efforts to overcome their foreignness while maintaining foreign orientation. They sacrifice their ability to go beyond themselves in mission for the sake of Americans to a idol of Hellenism and the support of their Head in Istanbul’s Fener district. They own large temples built for glorious liturgy but don’t really care much for it, since it was incomprehensible to most until recently translated into (stilted unlovely) English. The conventionality of much of Greek church life is uninspired and uninspiring.
The Greek Archdiocese is coming to a brink it it’s viability. Most Greek Orthodox parishioners no matter how wealthy contribute some $12/week and their large expensive temple complexes require funding from labor-intensive Greek Food Festivals which saps the spiritual energy of parishes, who don’t seem to enjoy much worship anyhow. Very few Greek parishes offer Saturday vespers and requisite Orthros services before Liturgy Sundays have two or three attendees who understand the Greek in which they are typically chanted. The energy of the central administration is consumed in fund-raising for its own centers and that of the Phanar in hostile Istanbul. The model of Greek parish here is a large basilica fitting hundreds, most of whom only attend twice a year for Christmas and Pascha. Energy redirected away from worship only attains worldly ends and converts can smell the vapidity of such parish life. In time fewer people, even among cradle Greek Orthodox are willing to settle for this weak sauce.
One more thing most people will never learn about. Fully half of Greek Archdiocese clergy, according to a survey by Alexei Krindatch would prefer to serve in a Local Autocephalous Church, over the current foreign-run satrapy. Of course they won’t quit the GOA and join the OCA and their desire will never be fulfilled, but it says a lot about their own feelings and how the leadership will not hear them. I pity Greek priests for this.
While we hear a growing trend of people converting to Eastern Orthodoxy for reasons of being drawn to its "ancient" beauty and mystery.
The other side must never be ignored as well because there has been also a handful of people who left the EOC for Protestantism in America.
Make no mistake though because they're also not the kind of Eastern Orthodox people who had spent their lives as members for only a few months but years before eventually leaving it.
As for me, I'm a Protestant, though I'm Asian and I already had been aware of the Eastern Orthodox Church at roughly the age of 12, thanks to Encarta.
My mentor later confirmed their existence. Having known some of their doctrines, I used to have an entire section in my writings dedicated to my positive views on EO.
I am of course in awe of its rich history and some of its hymns I actually sing or listen to in my private devotions such as Psalm 135 in Greek.
So what's stopping me from a possibility of conversion:
1. Protestantism have some beliefs and practices that are already held and sometimes are practiced further than the EO itself allows.
2. The EO holds similar if not the same doctrinal accretions with the RC especially towards image (icon) veneration, prayers to saints, the Marian dogmas, and that both Sacred Scriptures and Tradition as having equal authority.
3. The unique doctrine of Theosis, the rejection of original sin and the Filioque.
4. It's history is so rich, so ancient that there were actually times it had considered icon veneration as a violation of Sacred Scripture (8th-9th century) and the time when it could have reformed itself under Patriarch Cyril Lucaris (17th century) but got rejected.
Both of these possibilities are absorbed into Protestantism that there's actually no need for me to convert because we already have such Orthodox practices.
Hence have I always said to my opponents that I am Catholic but not Roman, Orthodox but not Eastern.
Thank you for your patience and God bless you.
Fellow convert to Orthodoxy here, you nailed it: I wanted to worship God, and the Orthodox church is a body of faithful who want to give their life to God. The only ones of us who half-ass it are sadly those from the dissolving ethnic enclaves and the adolescents and young adults wrapped up in the culture. We are called to be sojourners in this world, citizens of heaven, and those who live that out step into an Orthodox church and are captivated by the worship, welcomed home by the angels.
Economics play into this, too. In the rust belt area, Orthodoxy was once a vibrant segment of the population due to immigration. But the jobs have disappeared and with them, the young people who are moving for better opportunities. That left a lot of parishes with only the older people who are dying off. If you look at parishes in thriving job markets, you will see those parishes are filling with converts. Atlanta, Nashville, Harrisburg are three that I know of that are growing. Newer parishes in the west seem to be doing well. Also, bringing in younger priests who understand and can relate to youth helps to keep them engaged.
The North East is bleeding members--the "ethnic" parishes. Many people consider the faith ethnic and so, when they Americanize, they leave/secularize. The problem ultimately is secularism--why be religious when we can pursue the passions? If one does not want a life of repentance and faith, the world will provide one of pleasure and distraction. Most want the latter.
As a Roman Catholic, I 100% agree with what Terry Mattingly said.
More Catholics are moving to Traditional Latin mass because they want the real worship experience. People who don't go to church never go to church even if the mass is less than 30 minutes. Being traditional, however, does not prevent those who want to leave the Church from doing so.
Why do you believe the Latin mass to be superior?
I am not aware of the early church worshipping in a language which the people could not speak.
OMG, that's St. Vladimir's in Jackson, NJ at 15:00! Gorgeous building. Very exciting to see it as I'm a potential convert to Orthodoxy and it's very close to me. Should I join the faith, Lord willing, I hope my children will someday be some of the many who help Orthodoxy grow.
thanks greg