Succession: Old Money vs. New Money Explained On TV
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- čas přidán 15. 06. 2024
- HBO’s Succession presents a fascinating contrast between two families - The Roys and The Pierces - who represent two distinct worlds of wealth and privilege.
The Roys, who have built their vast business empire through their own hard work, determination, technology, and media, are the embodiment of the American dream of self-made success… often referred to as “new money."
The Pierces, on the other hand, represent the traditional aristocracy of America, or “old money” with their wealth and power inherited over generations and a distinct sense of “noblesse oblige” to deploy their riches for the good of the downtrodden.
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Top 5 OLD MONEY Communities in the NORTHEAST: • Top 5 OLD MONEY Commun...
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TIMESTAMPS:
0:00 Introduction
1:21 1. The Roys Are Not “Old Money”
8:11 2. Logan’s “New Money” Faith In The Self-Made Man
11:12 3. The Pierces Are “Old Money”
14:30 4. Pierces vs. Roys: Old Money vs. New Money
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The Roys of New York City are a prime example of new money, with their ostentatious displays of wealth, constant bragging, and (especially as it relates to the kids), their inability to talk about anything else.
These behaviors stand in stark contrast to those of old money families, who have a generations-long tradition of discretion regarding sex, money, and politics. A simple way of understanding it could be:
“New money screams, old money whispers”
Logan Roy, the patriarch of the family, is a self-made man who has amassed a massive fortune, but he is not without his insecurities.
He is acutely aware of his status as "new money" and carries a significant chip on his shoulder as a result.
His marriage to Catherine, a member of the British aristocracy, is a clear indication of his desire to elevate his family’s standing in society.
Despite this fact, Logan is deeply critical of the old castes of Europe, the exploitation of the poor by the wealthy class, and even the fat titans of media that he destroyed when he was young.
His contempt for the old guard is palpable, and his desire to forge a new path for himself and his family is evident in everything he does.
The younger generation of clan Roy takes up this model and goes to the extremes of new money culture in their behaviors.
Since Logan raised them and their English aristocratic mother didn't pay much attention to them, they represent a new kind of wealth that is marked by excess and a lack of sophistication.
Kendall Roy, the on-and-off heir apparent to the Roy Empire, is first shown (and then many times after throughout the show) in a manner that speaks to his unrefined nature.
His obsession with rap music and unrefined rhyming is a clear departure from the more sophisticated musical preferences of the old money elite.
This serves as a reminder of the fundamental differences between old money and new money, and how they are reflected in even the most seemingly insignificant details of one’s behavior and lifestyle.
Furthermore, Kendall’s social skills are often lacking, as he struggles to connect with others on a personal level and often comes across as awkward or uncomfortable in social situations.
This lack of refinement is another hallmark of new money, as those who have inherited their wealth and status often receive extensive training in etiquette and social graces from an early age.
Lastly, both Kendall is prone to making impulsive and rash decisions, such as his ill-fated attempt to take over the company from his father in the first season.
This lack of patience and foresight is often associated with those who have suddenly acquired their wealth and power, rather than those who have inherited it over generations. This is a trait that is consistently exemplified by Shiv, Connor, and Roman as well.
Indeed, Logan’s other son, Roman, is an example of the shallow and indulgent lifestyle that is often associated with new money.
His hedonistic and impulsive lifestyle is characterized by a lack of concern for basic societal norms and a preference for base pleasures.
For instance, Roman’s casual and flippant approach to sex is indicative of his unrefined nature. His preference for older women and lack of discretion is a stark contrast to the old money elite, who place a high value on propriety and decorum.
Furthermore, Roman’s ignorance of basic household items, like a gallon of milk, is yet another indication of his unrefined and privileged background.
Those who have inherited their wealth and status over generations are often more attuned to the value of money and the practicalities of everyday life, while new money individuals like Roman are insulated from such concerns.
COMMENT: Agree or disagree? What do you think will happen at the end of Succession?
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Agree
you may spit on me but i am convinced that Logan is not dead. And it's all an elaborate test to see how a succession would play out. 😁
Okay, here's my 'Succession' prediction:
Once the GoJo deal goes through, Shiv divorces Tom and marries Mattson, putting her one heart attack/poisoning away from total ownership of Waystar Royco.
Roman finds a far more age-appropriate mommy surrogate in Kerri, and they form a vicious power couple.
Kendall carefully guides ATN/Pierce into the mooring mast, where it explodes on contact, destroying the entire company. This will probably take the form of the dead waiter from season one resurfacing and wanting his cake.
The day before the election, video footage surfaces of Jeryd Mencken getting blown by an underage male hooker in a Tel Aviv nightclub, and in a surprise upset, Conner splits the vote and becomes POTUS. He and Willa repaint the White House in a tasteful off-biege.
Tom follows Greg back to Quebec to help him run the amusement park, because Greg couldn't run a hot dog stand on his own.
They live happily ever after.
This series: a 4 -season car crash I don't mind rubbernecking to watch
I just want to say that Connor Roy was interested in politics from a very young age
Haha!
That because he never had the makings of a varsity athlete
Yooo 😅... I've followed this comment & everytime I see it on succession related vids, it's funnier than the last time and am just as elated to see it.. 😂 🇺🇬 💯 Love Your consistency & it's consistency to Connor Roy's - No comment👌🏽💯🤺😊 Absolutely brilliant Arthur Woods is legend 😎
You should get a deal with No comment, get them to do a deal with HBO (now max+the show runners), the fashion label, have chat GPT3 design an article you can push on a slow news week, and work out a deal to print these T-shirts..with Arthur Woods written in a "where's waldo" fashion for the logo 🤔😊🍿🍿
He’s also the eldest son
That's why we have this show. New Money has difficulty with executing succession. That's where the drama comes from. Old money has long held traditions and systems already in place for succession. If Logan was simply more emotionally mature and less insecure, he could have easily set up plans for succession years before any serious health concerns.
Great points!
Logan's failure to plan for succession (among his other failings as a father) is basically the whole story of the series.
Primogeniture
He was too greedy to let go. You'd think about succession when kendall and others were in the crib but logan wanted everything for himself he didnt even think for a second there's a thing like death and someday hes gonna be dead lmao
The failure is to believe that his new money is in place bc of hardwork. When he look the incompetence of his children he thinks they are weak for the job when there is any job to be made. He and all his family didn't need to work at the company, they just need to keep the stocks to keep the seat in the board.
New money failures precisely on taking the vantages of having money, that is to NOT WORK. For this Logan would need to get soft and educate himself on philosophy, arts and perform a high culture life while rising greatly well his child, making them emotionally competent who would not be spoiled nor hard work but precisely good on keeping networking and mostly important not doing a lot of shit. That's passively keeping power. The jobs on the company is for the execs and his hardwork employees.
This is the crux of the whole show. The reason Old Money is... well, old, is because of how well they manage to transfer their wealth to successive generations, and maintain close family ties. The Roy’s can’t even manage to do it once.
Excellent point!
No? That's not the point of the show? Like the peirces were about to sell their company to the Roy's. That was their succession plan. Mother Peirce stopped it when she realized she was personally betrayed.
The point is to demystify these moneyed families. They flaunt wealth and luxury to maintain an air of superiority but when let into the inner circle, you realize that these people are just as dysfunctional as any other family. There is no elite circle of randian captains of industry guiding the world through thoughtful enterprise. Its just a bunch of dumb people doing dumb shit for dumb reasons.
Logan has control issues and refuses to let go, Peirce is extremely vain, wanting to appear left wing but then will claim credit for cooking the evening meal that was made by her staff, then eventually blowing up their deal when she is personally. betrayed.
The only difference is due to the immense wealth they have magnifies their petty personal family drama and the effect on the people around them.
it takes a lot to maintain it well for even just one, most are wiped by the 3rd. But western poor people gonna poor, jealousy and hatred never leaves them, just as they brought their own oppression from the old world to the new and how they trampled over each other over scraps.
technically wrong, Roys dont lose the money or wealth, they sell the company but they hold the same wealth Logan had. The only thing they dont transfer or hold is the company... but thats money they cash out. You say it like they lost the wealth.
@@futuropasadoThey're pretty unlikely to invest that money wisely or build anything close to Royco. At most their money will last one more generation.
Another point at where this is highlighted very well would be: Caroline Collingwood’s comments about her husband. How he “bought his own furniture”. This is referencing British aristocrats that would inherit their family stately home, fully loaded with old furniture and paintings. To add to this she made a rather deign comment regarding him not being posh as his dad was a doctor. Even though the working class in England would consider a man like Peter, (a clearly privately educated man with parents in the middle class) to be in fact, posh.
Excellent catch!
That sets me back to the gentry in Downton Abbey gasping at Mr Crowley having a JOB.
@@AmandaVieiraMamaesouCult Right. “What’s a weekend?” when Matthew said although he work as a lawyer that he would have days off
Thats a good point. In Britain, someone like Peter, although considered posh would still be classified as upper middle class , while Caroline would be upper class as you can only be born into that class.
@@AmandaVieiraMamaesouCult also when Mary was going to get married to that man that made his wealth through newspapers, he was talking about buying furnishings for their new home and Mary said “your lot buys it, our lot inherits it.” Also speaking to their difference in class. He was wealthy, but he wasn’t upper class because he wasn’t landed gentry.
The Roy family "halftime" huddle during the episode at the Pierce's compound was some serious-ass comedy.
"We didn't get you from a hyena farm"😂😂😂🤣
My favorite line of the series.
@@gingaboo o man, i laughed so hard on this line
Baahahaha their “halftime” that’s a great way of putting it 🤣
Actually, the Roys are quite "stealth wealth" for new money. They aren't driving gold-wrapped RR Cullinans, rather they travel in pretty typical business mobiles like the Mercedes S-class, Cadillac Escalades, and Lincoln Navigators. None of them wear "hype beast" style clothing, they dress in well-tailored and timeless looking clothing. The only new money give away is their attitude.
Most new money tech and media people are like that; Bezos, Zuckerberg, Musk, etc. RR Cullinans and “hype beast” style clothing are mostly the purview of influencers and non-US oligarchs
@@oldmoneyluxuryMusk is old money. Came from a family that had mines in South Africa. This is a common Myth about Musk that he worked for his money when he had money all along.
I think the Roys have "stealth wealth" because they are so involved in running Waystar that they use company cars/jets and dress for business most of the time. But when we see Kendall out of waystar in s3 and throwing his party he's in gucci trying to stand out. Since they're so work-oriented they have the tailored corporate look
@@ellaj.659 Musk isn't old money. Stop peddling that bogus theory.
Musk's father had an engineering firm which was his main source of wealth.
He invested in a mine like we all invest in stock market. He never owned the mine in it's entirety like some wealthy oligarch which is often pushed on the internet.
Most of Elon musk's money was made when he made PayPal. This sudden wealth led to buying Tesla or Creating SpaceX. Before that he wasn't that rich. He did sell a start up before and brought a sports car and that's how he got into Tesla but he ain't old money.
@@ellaj.659 Don't make me defend Elon Musk. Dude made his money. He doesn't even speak with his father, the one with the emerald mine.
There was an interesting part in the Netflix show "Inventing Anna" about the difference between new money and old money. One of the people fooled by Anna said he was convinced she was old money because of how she ordered wine. New money will order the most expensive wine, even if they know nothing about it whereas old money will know which bottles are quality and will order based on where the wine is from. There are many subtle difference like that if you know how to look.
I think you missed the point of that episode and the series. Sure the old money/ new money dynamic is what flies at you when you initially meet the pierces compared to the Roys. But the writers go on to ridicule the pretentiousness of the pierces. The shakespeare recitations, the fake modesty. Nan inviting the housekeeper to have drinks with them but then later stealing credit for the housekeeper's cooking. And then Ultimately the negotiation scene where you realize that despite all the high mindedness, she's actually all just about the money. Notice the scene where Logan ups the offer. You can literally see her gulp down saliva due to greed at the prospect of more money. The writers just go to show you that despite the pierces supposed old money status, they're just the Roys a couple of generations down the line. It's not as cut and dry as old money= stoic, refined, new money= greedy, rash. The writing on Succession is too smart for that.
Your point is not mutually exclusive with the message of the video; The Pierces are indeed the "old money" archetype despite the script mocking for their faux morality (often a trait of WASP social commentary - see Elizabeth Warren's political career)... The Roys are mocked mercilessly by the show for their classlessness and new money antics (despite being the protagonists of the show) - in fact, perhaps the most "endearing" character of the show, Greg, is mocked the most by other characters; as you said the show is too smart to be 'cut and dry', however The Roys are clearly new money and the Pierces are old money.
100%.
I thought it was genius how the show managed to make the Pierces look as loathsome as the Roys while at the same time being differently loathsome. God, they're all such vile people.
And of course, the big punchline is that Connor somehow managed to recruit Maxim to be his campaign manager or whatever he is ("I promised him State." hahahahahahah!). In the end, their class interests align, the show seems to be telling us, and that's what matters; don't be fooled by superficial "political" differences. In the end...
Well said. Real old money (not involved in actual commerce) has manners and is kind because they really have nothing to prove.
Underrated. Old money was born from new money, much like actual european aristocrats who can all trace their ancestry to a bunch of peasants or hunter-gatherers like 100% of humanity.
That’s America for you old money, in the new world. Would be consider upper middle class in uk. Truly Acient money ties to Nobility preferably from feudalism but never gentry ties.
Nan Pierce inviting her housekeeper to have a drink with the family is clearly a sign of old money mannerisms. Old money grow up with domestic staff and see them as part of the family whereas the Roy family would view them as employees who are socially beneath them.
That was the show's way of actually displaying how phoney Nan Pierce was. Because later in the dinner scene, we clearly see her taking credit for the roast turkey that she didn't make with the shot of the housekeeper in back. I saw it as a way of the show ridiculing the Pierces for convincing themselves that they're more noble than "new money" families like the Roys."
@@fahda04 Yes. And they accentuate the phoniness in Season 4 where they bring Nan back for no other reason than to protest "I feel so dirty talking about money!" or whatever she says. (I actually thought that was a rare moment of the show kind of missing the mark; they painted Nan too broadly there for my taste. Sure it was funny but they could have easily preserved (and amplified) the humor by toning her down there.)
Nah old money still see outsiders as beneath them, but there’s the air of civility/manners. In this case it was more to show the hypocrisy of the rich liberal in contrast to the openness of conservative Roys regarding class
@@fahda04 they are still better than new money even if they still have phony bits.
The housekeeper KNEW better than to accept. That was a performance.
It is about refinement. It is about being cultured. The Roys are barbarians in comparison. The Pierces are about the Trivium, the Liberal Arts, knowing classical languages and ancient history. The 3 Roy children are representative of business school values. The only Roy who could, conceivably, thrive in the Pierce family is Connor, with his love of history, and the arts. He is such an odd duck to his father and siblings; but, were he raised among the Pierces, he would have felt seen and valued. His best qualities would have been nurtured.
Great points! Wow, exactly
You're so right! Connor is always presented as a delusional and incompetent man, I never considered what he could have been had he been in the right environment to nurture him! Great point!
Old moneys are but dressed up barbarians. Really i dont get this romanticizing and conferred virtue. Speaking of rose-colored lenses!
@@larasingg it has nothing to do with dress and everything to do with character. Ultimately power, responsibility, and restraint go hand in hand in the best men. this is what makes a true _Aristocrat._
@@Laotzu.Goldbug i think you have a highly unrealistic and highly romanticized version of aristocrat lol. They created that bullshit view hundreds of years ago while happily being the most in-breed, disgusting human population. Its funny in 2023 people still believe this.
Logan Roy is more hard working as an individual than anyone in an old money family. However, old money benefits from the law of averages and doesn't rely on the efforts of a single dynamic individual to do the work. They have a system where many less talented people learn to work together to outlast any aggresive tycoon who comes along.
On the longest time scales all of the attributes that contribute to success - good genetic health, intelligence, good character - are overwhelmingly heritable.
The idea that old money is a result of good character makes me wonder where people think they got their wealth.
@@Laotzu.Goldbug that really makes me question does one guy in a one family can change the total fate of all coming generation? Or is it everyone working together and sticking together like a noble family acquiring wealth and power?
@@Laotzu.Goldbug it would be great if you could expand on this point
Its quite funny that to us they're all "rich people" but in their own rich people world there's an hierarchy in where they feel looked down at and mocked even, the micro aggressions. Imagine Roy's feeling like they dont belong in a room full of people like the Pierces, feel inferior because they know they're in the lower level compared to old money families. I wonder how does that make them feel having to always try hard and impress and flex their assets or use other ways to feel included in that "elite circle" but they still be looked down at. Kinda sad but funny at the same time.
I really don't agree, the Roys are technically not old money but they really are in that camp, Pierces are practically aristocrats in comparison to anyone. The only person that has ever said Logan started off humble was himself, he inherited his uncles business but he was involved in it even earlier and it sounded pretty extensive. They look and act like old money, they are much closer to being old money than new. The big tech guys Kendall looks up to are the modern representation of new money.
It depends on who you're comparing the Roys to. If its the Pierces then they're new as they come, but if its tech people then of course the Roys r royalty
I haven't seen Succession... so maybe it really does treat Old vs New Money this 2 dimensionally. However, this is video is a really surface level/shallow discussion relying on a century plus old propaganda.
I read in Forbes that if you have 1.3 million in investments you’re comfortable. If you have 2.3 million you’re wealthy. When Greg says he still stands to inherit 5 million everyone laughs and he’s told he’ll be the richest poor guy. 😂That one made me laugh.
I couldn’t stand the Pierce family, so phony.
Well it’s enough for a normal person to retire. But they live in Manhattan penthouses and are used to private jets, helicopters, and drivers. For that lifestyle you really do need 100M or more.
There’s new money, old money and my class: no money.
Great and insightful analysis. The only point I would add is that despite the old tradition refinement of the Pierces, at the end of the day, the matriarch Pierce couldn't help but to try to get her delicate fingers on an extra billion from the Roys. Old money or new money, everybody wants the most money they can get.
Agree. The Roy's appear unsophisiticaed in all occasions. They don't seem giving much thoughts for their young, not to mention their next generations. Their obssession for power and wealth, by hook or by crook, is scary.
Old money "whispers" is due to the various revolutions and social changes, where being seen as rich and flashy was dangerous. Depending on where you live, old money being subtle has only been a thing for the past few centuries.
This was an excellent analysis of the Roys vs Pierces, but I have one recommendation to broaden your point. Old money vs new money is a notable cycle in history. For example Guilded Age (end of the 19th century) Rockefellers and Vanderbilts were once new money and disdained by old money European aristocracy. Most of the new families only acquired titles for their kids with their money (see Dollar Princesses). I am using very Eurocentric examples, but you could make this case for like the old Howard family in England vs the Carrs in the 1600s, or early farmers in the 1770s who made it rich vs their aristocratic European counterparts. I don't think this analysis as a whole is faulty, but some further reading is necessary before calling this a "new and exciting phenomenon". This is a cyclical clash that has been happening since people started amassing power and wealth.
Great video!
Thanks! Yes we actually make that point in other videos, particularly how Alva Vanderbilt was shunned extensively by “old money” throughout her early years in New York high society. Additionally of course Princess Diana, despite being minor nobility, was questioned for her social rank by the Windsors
@Old Money Luxury great! this was my first video of yours, so just thought id mention it
@Old Money Luxury It goes back farther still. The ancient Roman play The Satyrion has a nouveau riche freedman who gives disgustingly ostentatious banquets and is despised by the established aristocracy, the audience, and I suppose anyone with a modicum of taste.
Yes! I live in Brazil and I grew up around ppl with money, there is a clear distinction. There are people that are OLD old money, ie: the descendants of the old portuguese aristocrats whose wealth may have declined over time but are still extremely classy and carry their traditions since colonial times. There are people that are old money from after the Brazilian Republic was installed, usually made their wealth during the industrial revolution, so during the late 19th/early 20th century: these people are probably the wealthiest when it comes to actual net worth, but they’re not aristocrats (even though they think they’re the epitome of “old money”). Then there’s “older” new money, I’d say that this is the wealth acquired from the 1960s to the 1990s. These people are not as flashy as the super-recent new money but still lack the ability to establish a succession like the Roys, and struggle to keep their money for the future generations. However, they are quite hard-working, virtuous people who may lack “traditional” class but surely don’t act obnoxious and arrogant. Lastly, there’s the ultra-recent new money people, who made their money from the 90s to present day. These people usually made lots of money in a really short time, so they’re usually really flashy, obsessed with flaunting their wealth with their huge logo clothing, their sports cars and modern mansions.
You can really see and feel the divide here, because these people’s wealth actually follow a close pattern to the history of Brazil. The aristocrats made their money and wealth in Europe (usually Portugal), lots of them are actually upper-middle class and work jobs such as doctors, lawyers and etc, since they don’t get tax money anymore. The bourgeoisie old money made their wealth during the industrial boom in Brazil, by investing in industries like factories and etc, many which live to this day. Some of them made money by the huge coffee plantations and farms as well. Then there’s those who made money through high-paying jobs. Lastly, the new generation made money through investing (forex, crypto and stocks), or making music/acting and being influencers.
This is a great comment! If you’d like to collaborate on a video about “old money” in Brazil, email us howtopreneurinc@gmail.com
For the most part agree, but there must have been a level of nuance their mother instilled into them since she was from Aristocratic bloodlines. It seems the children's social circles would have exposed them to this too. Logan Roy was also raised Catholic, which has a different approach to money than the Protestant, WASP work ethic that espouses the USA. To me, Logan remembered the traditionalism he had as a child when he vacationed at t he Pierces. It might have put him in a bad mood. Even his brother seems to be more of a traditionalist.
If the Pierces are old money, and The Roys are new money, then Tom and Greg are newer money.
Tom and Greg won the lottery, yesterday.
Tom is third generation old money, there;s just not a lot of it. Now ewen cut him off i guess he's trying to get new money
We don't really know much about Tom's lineage but he gives vibes of someone from a family who had a bit of money that got lost over time.
@@AhmedEtman79 Tom and his family are rich, but not 1% rich. He's also 'provincial', coming from Minnesota, and not really part of the 'globe-trotting' 1% elite.
@@igoralekseyev3347 Lol Toms family are definitely in the 1%. The 1% isn't as exclusive as you think. The "globe trotting elite" like the Roy's are more like the 0.0001%. You only need to make about $400K to be in the 1%.
I feel like while the new money Roy family may be brash and obviously unethical, the old money Pierce family are far more sinister in my view as their privilege shows how broken our systems are in that one single family can hoard so much insane wealth throughout countless generations. That to me makes them the true villains in the show as while the Roy family has their faults and due to their public visibility it makes it easy to blame them for their unethical behavior, yet the Pierce family knows how to keep their privilege more behind the scenes and while this may come across as being sophisticated it’s more sinister as they know that by not flaunting their wealth the majority of the public won’t think of them or have them at the top of their mind when looking for examples of who to blame for the vast amount of income inequality in America. They know that by remaining behind the scenes they’ll be able to continue quietly growing their exorbitant wealth and influence for even more generations and continuing to exacerbate the huge inequality even further.
excellent! I started watching the show. After 2 episodes, I stopped because it felt like a "Wolf of Wall Street" theme, the aesthetic of American ostentatious wealth without any further thought. After this video and reading these incredibly profound comments I may just give this show another shot.
Since most families lose their fortune after 3d generation, it is highly respectable if you manage to keep your fortune for so many generations.
You made a really good point about lack of not wanting to be perceived as rich being construed as how one should be to be considered sophisticated. When you think of sophistication, you think of sleek, under the radar, modesty. But like you said that prob comes from desire to be that is more so from wanting to go undercover rather than some innate "civilised" or smart behaviour
The ultra rich refer to us plebs as the "pitchforks" . They are very much aware of the necessity of being low key, discreet, out of sight and thus the minds of the masses. They got the memo from the French and Russian revolutions. This is why they go to such pains to stay behind the scenes and protect their privacy.
Incorrect analysis. Old money doesn’t usually expand wealth they just maintain it.
And the Roy's lost control over Waystar in one generation. The Pierce most likely have held on the a majority of PGM while the Roy's only own 36% and could easily lose control to the other 64% of shareholders in Waystar (the whole plot of S3)
Excellent point!
I mean it's realistic tbh. If you look at most major publicly traded corporations they are rarely taken over by the children of the founder.
Old Old Money: Pierce --> Old New Money: Roy --> New New Money = Mattson
Great points!
My favorite example of new money is Vince McMahon it’s like if Logan was a carny instead of a producer
Tom is Triple H.
Something to mention here is that in ep 4x07, Ken sneers at Mattteson condescendingly calling him "new money" for fumbling the India subs. He thinks he's old money because he thinks he already inherited his fathers empire by birthright.
I think this philosophical outlook of Logan also explains his seemingly erratic behaviour concerning the succession. To put it in a sincere sentence would sound like:"I want you to take my spot, but you have to take it by force."
That's why he was talking about ritualistic sacrifice with Ken before sending him off as a pawn sacrifice for the cruise scandal, and also why he had a smile on his face when Ken betrayed him again right after that conversation. He thought Ken finally had a killing blow wound up.
Like some fucked up Sith "Rule of two" thing. But his plan failed, he died before he pushed his dynastic successors to pass the test of killing him. That's why the kids will either all fail as new money entrpreneurs, or Ken will take Logans legacy 100% as the new monarch, transforming the company into an old money empire.
As Logan said when asked if Ken could do the job "You're not a killer." Only I always thought that in his mind, he wanted to add a "yet" to this statement.
But Logan could never be so honest. Them doing it out of their own volition is key. Like Ken in S1. Only Ken was too weak in S1 and Logan is not about to roll over in some form of ritualistic sacrifice. You have to actually win for real. That's the test. That's the difference between old money and new money for him. A deep philosophical principle that tortured him through his rise and that he won't even tolerate his own blood to ignore.
The kids also push a lot of blame about who "killed him" (Logan) as a guilt trip tactic. I noticed this many times this season after Logan died. I don't think that's a coincidence. Whoever killed Logan earned his spot considering Logans rules. But by saying that, the kids show that they don't even understand the game he was playing with them.
This was an excellent analysis, and yes when Kendall said “new money” in that episode (after this video was released) our channel felt vindicated :)
Also, this is spot on because the “some people just don’t know how to make a deal” line from Kendall last aired episode was pure Logan.
“Now the apprentice has become the master” - Darth Vader to Obi-Wan before killing him
I really want people to understand where “noblesse oblige” comes from historically. Read about Talleyrand (Napoleon’s foreign minister who came from a very old and important noble family who practiced this. Read about Louis XIV and why he made his nobility so dependent on him. Lastly read about the French Revolution. Love this video.
Old vs new money was always explained to me growing up as "Old money plants the seeds today so their family will have an orchard for generations. New money can't see past the fruit cart."
You struggle for a few generations but each generation your family gets wealthier, works towards the metaphorical orchard being able to provide food and a living for everyone, then eventually you get more metaphorical orchards and eventually you even get various branches who are no longer farming the orchard but instead are the doctors who keep everyone healthy, or lawyers who are able to keep the orchards in the family or the stock brokers who are able to finance the startup money to expand from fruit to wine or cattle...etc.
I feel like overall the video explained the differences very well. I kind of don't think the Roys will make it in the long run and will end up just being middle class, especially at the first sign of any widespread economic troubles. They don't seem like the type to have put away any rainy day funds
Thanks for your comment and viewing Hamilton!
The vast, overwhelming majority of old money fortunes can be traced directly back to a single New Money ancestor... Perhaps, grown and added to over the year by other members. But the initial fortune typically comes from 1 person or couple that did very well.
Not only no rainy day fund, but they have taken on crippling amounts of debt.
Not really true. If you look at pretty much any old money family, it's one person that made the family rich and his ancestors just managed the money he made well for generations.
Now I have to rewatch the show again. Thanks, great video!
Given that America is about to experience its GREATEST wealth transfer it has ever seen, this series reflects what is really happening today. It is truly fascinating to watch.
As someone who is not from the us, I am curious. Which one?
@@vitoriaazevedo1507 The baby boomer generation is passing its wealth on to the next.
@@vitoriaazevedo1507 baby boomers dying due to old age, meaning their concentrated wealth generationally transitions
@@vitoriaazevedo1507Boomers starting to die off, I’m assuming
@@Kitajima2 oh it makes sense. I thought she was talking about an specific case.
Thank you so much for this mini explanation. I had some hunch that the Pierces were old money, just by the way Nan looks and speaks. But , being european, i was not aware of the who’s and the what’s of the ties between old and new money. So thank you for this bit of US history.
Thanks! We’d love to do some European related content soon as well
Thank you. I so appreciate this video very much. Definitely a new subscriber. I’m very late in watching the Succession drama though. It is good yet I prefer the older stuff like Dallas and Dynasty. Thank you again.
Thanks! New Succession video from us coming soon
New money ends up integrating into old money
@CL - Yes, correct. During the Victorian era (gilded age), the Rockerfellers were considered new money.
Not necessarily. Most wealth is squandered and lost. Only 12% of family businesses last through the 3rd generation. That's the power of the Pierce family. Don't you get the feeling that the Roy kids will squander every penny. Connor has already spent over $100M on his presidential campaign.
One thing that I noticed after watching the Take on the fate of the Roy children, Shiv showed that she isn’t old money because she didn’t work to become the best matriarch. If she had been old money then she would have been looking for a partner to run the Roy organization. But she wasn’t properly raised. I bet that aristocratic mother of hers wasn’t raised to create a healthy, productive family.
Another Roman moment was when one of his teeth got knocked out and I think the exact quote may have been "Eh, f it, I'm a millionaire I'll get a new one".
VERY well done!! Subscribed. :)
Welcome aboard!
This video was brilliant. Thanks for this!!
Cheers! :)
Old money wears tailored clothing by designers you’ve never heard of unless you’re in that upper echelon. Everyone has heard of Rolex, but not as many know Patek. New money wears crap with the label in big letters all over so you KNOW they have money. They make themselves easy targets for scammers that way.
rolex is immigrant brand
patek middle class
both advertise
ralph lauren pony is chav
lacoste prep yuppies
we actually get custom everything or obscure
sometimes cheap old brands to blend and see how meddling middles treat us
i think the last psychiatrist blog covered adverts in the economist ......
Bravo, Very Instructive !
Glad you liked it!
As a poor person (lol), nausea is my feeling about people who have so much wealth. However, I love this show and the great explanation of old vs new money. I really enjoyed your video and agree with your review!
Thanks LaTonya!
Despite your impoverished circumstances you need not allow them to define who you are. Your class is determined by your behavior. Nothing can prevent you from being kind, courteous, considerate, compassionate, generous, and respectful, and treating everyone equally. All human beings deserve dignity and you can grant this --- it won't cost you a penny...
Very good, thank you.
Thank-you for this video. The clash happens often in real life as well. Definitely witnessed old money frowning upon new money.
Thanks!
interesting analysis... Almost makes me want to re-watch those episodes.
I agree!!! excellent video. I also wonder why the creators don't show us more of the Pierce family.
Cheers Subi!
The Pierce family really crapped the bed. I mean they refused an offer for 25 billion and now settling for 10 billion. I think Logan was doing a great service for his family getting a deal done to secure generational wealth for his family before he passed so they didn't end up like the Pierces. Now that Logan died the valuation of the company has fallen just like the Pierces valuation.
I agreed. My hubby is from old money. He is from the New England region. I was an international student, and met him there. His first wife is old money. He has show me the difference between new & old money. I noticed even in the way his daughters dress and the other kids.
american is new money
New England is still new money
Old money doesnt know the value of money either. They never had to and neither did their ancestors. And the self made man is not a myth. If you work hard you can make something of yourself.
Everybody rises to power and wealth with the aid and collaboration of others
@@oldmoneyluxury national intelligence scores and book the wealth of nations
What a great video! Old money is sustainable and ensures continuation.
Great video, I LOVE the Meet the Pierces episode, they are the upgraded version of Roy, better in every aspect, even in the disgusting ones.
It kind of brings me back to Dickens. He had such confidence in the capacity for human growth--i.e., Scrooge--when faced with consequences seeing the value in compassion. Overnight, no less. But in our reality, it's all a game for people at these unimaginable levels of wealth. Not a consequence in sight. Do we keep hoping for the 1% to grow as humans? What are we longing for as we watch...surely not to be them. As does Tom, for instance, like a tuna longing to become a baraccuda.
"Noblesse oblige", not "obligé".
Thank you, that was bothering me too
Great video it does make a difference because being ostentatious is nothing that old money wants to be connected with -
Old money loves to hide in plain sight .
Well done, thanks. Agree.
Also, I think Logan's driver, who Logan said he could talk to and whom he seemed to trust, will play an important part of conclusion. I think he reminds Logan of himself (or Gregg will play an important part).
Glad I found this channel, this is interesting! Thanks!
Could you make videos on English secret societies? I think it’ll be somewhat related, wouldn’t it?
Great suggestion!
I lived in NYC for five years and handled UHNW clients in my job. Seeing this dynamic in person day after day was fascinating.
Nan Pierce was fascinating as the matriarch of the family.
What an amazing video
Connor: wanted the ranch life. Ends up buying his Dad's house for 63 million. New sub.
“63 million.”
“Done.”
Ten minutes later:
“Mi casa es su casa”
Fresh subject channel subbed
Cheers!
It’s funny because the Old Money families started as New Money, and was looked down by a much older family
when carnegie was new money so were the rockefellars
thank you for discovering one more conflict in the show
Logan sees the Pierces the same way he sees his own children.
Interesting take
That pronunciation of noblesse oblige is ‘no money’
😂
Shows how even when you do get money, there are still levels to this.
Good stuff
what's this obsession with old money. You can't pretend to be or even try to fit in. And who wants to be like them? In the UK, they live in expensive homes in the right parts of London usually or a country estate, but they have no cash. I'd rather be newly rich.
Ouch! My ears started bleeding at @0:37. There is no "AY" sound tacked onto the end of "noblesse oblige." It's just an "e," not an "é" (with an accent aigu). Therefore "oblige" is just two syllables, not three. O-bleej. Not O-bleej-AY.
What about those in between, coming from both backgrounds!?
Finally, a channel that acknowledges the Roys as new money
I like how this Old vs New dynamic gets flipped when Matsson shows up. Then its the Roys representing Old Media vs Matsson's New Media
Great analysis! it is all true. Glad to see someone understands the deep social and cultural gap.
Also I think that looking at wealthy families as a living organism might be interesting. Organisms have a life cycle and a cycle of self awareness. Which explains the self indulgent nature of new money and the self assurance nature of old money because they have weathered the storms of fortune.
Excellent comment! Worth a video!
@@oldmoneyluxury I am here for you. My father was a timber broker who ran logging operations. This is what my great-grandfather did as well. My family has been here since 1624. We aren’t social climbers…we are mountaineers. I have been around old money and new money and their children. I find shows like Succession, Billions, and Yellowstone funny since I have seen this in real life. Plus, I work for a divorce attorney to the wealthy (old and new) in college, you see a lot of crazy, surreal situations.
Wow! What a great story. Feel free to email us howtopreneurinc@gmail.com and maybe we can collaborate on some video ideas!
"His obsession with rap music and rhyming is a clear departure from the more sophisticated musical preferences of the old money elite."
I agree that Kendall is a joke and that he's 100% new money trash-the character design is brilliant; he captures perfectly the sort of guy (you meet him a lot in NYC business culture) who tries to fit into too many categories, fails at catching any of the rabbits, and has little-to-no self-awareness about it-but you just made it clear that you don't understand rap music-some of it is quite sophisticated-or the old money elite.
Actual old money tend to be uncouth-who do they need to impress?-and not especially refined in their mannerisms. They are more like Donald Trump in politics and behavior than you'd think based on the superficial liberalism of the middle-class try-hards (who are not old money or new-they may have high incomes, but will almost never achieve wealth, because the mandatory expenses to keep their careers are also extremely high). Old money are often fat and ugly (inbreeding) and barely literate, but just happen to own land that's worth $190 million and have 7 figures of rental income they don't know what to do with. Imagine John Dutton, but without the intelligence or charisma. This isn't to say that old money are stupid-most of them are just very reliably average; it turns out that people regress to the mean over generations.
The main difference between old money and new money is not that the former have more culture (both groups are mostly uncultured, because most people in general are uncultured-we live in a declining empire) but that the money means a lot less to them, because they've had it for generations and so has everyone they care about. New money-including second-generation rich, like the Roys, who ape the work ethic of the Logans, but are not able to pull it off because (as Logan aptly says) they are not serious people-see wealth as a scoreboard and a sign of personal achievement. Old money see it as a weird trick of fate that just happened to benefit them (although they are in no rush to change it.) They do not, in general, have a sense of noblesse oblige. They do not tend to think about the less fortunate at all, just as middle-class Americans rarely think about Africa (and, when they do, do so in simplistic and inaccurate ways, since it's not a monolith but a gigantic, diverse continent.)
The other thing about old money is that they never left, but they want you to believe they don't exist. They are also, on the whole, not as rich as new money. At least, the average is lower. There are billionaires among old money, but there are plenty of people with ~1M net worth (not rich, by 2020s standards) who are old money because of their connections, and who could easily become rich and famous if they had any work ethic at all, but who aren't driven in that way. On the other hand, to become "new money" takes at least $10M, maybe twice that. If you have 7 figures, but weren't born into old money, you're not "new money"... just middle class.
Also, the people called "WASPs" would _never_ use the term "WASP". (About a quarter are ethnically Catholic; a few are Jewish. It doesn't matter much because, as you correctly noted, religion is almost never discussed.) They would use the term, if they used one at all, of Yankee... although Yankee is a bit more inclusive... because a lot of us ethnic Yankees, who have the same cultural and intellectual heritage you're talking about, don't have any money (like me).
I suspect old money will become increasingly uncultured (and, even, averse to becoming cultured) as the years progress. Capitalism doesn't work anymore. Too much culture and refinement, you become a Marxist. The idea that old money have some kind of rich cultural or intellectual heritage-that, say, impoverished immigrants don't, although in my experience they often do-is laughable. Both old money and new money are sections of the bourgeoisie, which is utterly indifferent to culture and will strip mine it for profit. The difference is that old money, although they come from the historical bourgeoisie, pretend to be aristocratic, which leads them hiding; on the other hand, new money pretends the bourgeoisie is more inclusive and expansive (i.e., by convincing upper-proletarians that they are "middle class" as a way to sell capitalism and regressive politics) than it actually is. There are two different strategies, but culture and refinement don't have much to do with it.
Great comment with a lot of layers. Agreed on most points, From a similar part of the world so most of your commentary rings true especially about Yankees, terminology, how someone can be "old money" and less wealthy than new money, etc.
However rap music is not considered 'sophisticated' by the elite classes of America (old money or otherwise), regardless of our personal opinions on the quality of the music. There is no old money family in America raising their kids on rap. If the kids like rap, they learned it from the internet, TV, or friends in school, not from their parents or grandparents. Conversely, in a certain crust of society, it is not uncommon for Mom to be familiar with choral music or play piano, Dad to be familiar with classical music, opera, etc. Hip-hop as a genre is not even two generations old. Impossible to be tied to the upper classes yet (if it every will be). In terms of musical sophistication, even a guitar would be considered "lower class" (as in less difficult to learn, more difficult to become a virtuoso in) compared to a violin or cello. There are entire hierarchies that can be built on musical sophistication with social class alone, a great book that you may have read before elucidates this is: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Class:_A_Guide_Through_the_American_Status_System
The only other clarification is that there are indeed different behavioral and social models between old money and new money in America, for many reasons, one being the particular cultures they originate from.
So in New England, most of the 'old money' types are English (hence W Anglo-Saxon P as a specific signifier) or Scottish descended, sometimes French as you get closer to Canada, etc. in New York - Dutch or English, etc. Midwest - German, although historically the connotation of Northeast Old Money is mainly British Isles. As time has gone on the term has indeed become more "inclusive" but there's a reason that Anglo-Saxon is in the phrase, because aristocratic England's behavioral template is where what is commonly called old money behavior comes from. Many of the 'slovenly' characteristics you are describing of 'old money' people you may know is a recent post-1960s phenomenon; in recent years the phrase has come to encapsulate more and more people but the behavioral model comes from peoples descended from maybe a 500 square mile area. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Anglo-Saxon_Protestants
Ironically, Obama's behavior and temperament are much more 'old money' Yankee (from his mother's side he is descended from American founding stock) than Trump (only around 3 generations deep into the United States). Not making a political point here though, just explaining the difference social class connotations.
But thanks for commenting and a lot of good thoughts!
@@oldmoneyluxury You make a good point about rap music; it seems we're using different definitions of sophisticated. I'm referring to technical sophistication/intricacy when I say that rap music has a lot of it. You are correct that the upper classes hold a staunch negative view of it, and of popular culture in general. I don't know if this is still true--it could be dated--but they used to buy TVs that looked like mirrors because they didn't want houseguests to know they even had one.
american cannot be old money it's from old world
only protestant are truly ......sweary
hg tudor has videos on somatic narcissism and wannabe gurus
inbreeding causes no depression with low genetic load, outbreeding depression is always to be avoided
cultural marxism is anti natal
You make an excellent point about culture. Because culture is no longer dependent on wealth, so it is not viewed as valuable.
If anything, culture is a measure of free time, which nowadays is viewed as a poor people thing.
An actual incredible fact:
Over 90% of all wealth is lost by the 3rd generation of a family.
I know people in my life who's family currently fits this description.
The Grandma created all the wealth / businesses. Handed them down to her children who live in extreme excess, yet still are active in the business.
However......their children are products of the 21st century: spoiled, entitled, not appreciative nor fully understanding that their own parents did not create the wealth nor have any real wealth (if it were not for the grandparents) AND worst of all......want nothing to do with the current business or future and are under the delusion that the gravy train will simply always be there.
They are the sort of "new money" whom by the time the current 23 year old kids are about (+/-)50, will almost certainly have lost it all for one reason or another.
greg the egg is third and he lost to greenpeace lol
trust
Hey, love the video, interesting concept - but please restrain from that color-pulsating effect on the black and white pictures, I thought that my screen died
Edit: End ultimately annoying in the long run.
Applying the characteristics of these families to being simply "old money" or "new money" is an indication that your focus here may have been an obstacle to understanding the complexity of this show.
😂
A funny representstion of Old Money is the movie "a New Leaf" with Walter Matthieu. He plays Henry Graham who is losing his inherited money and looks to marry back into financial securty
what makes you think that rap music is not sophisticated?
Rap music is not considered 'sophisticated' by the elite classes of America (old money or otherwise), regardless of our personal opinions on the quality of the music.
There is no old money family in America raising their kids on rap. If the kids like rap, they learned it from the internet, TV, or friends in school, not from their parents or grandparents. Conversely, in a certain crust of society, it is not uncommon for Mom to be familiar with choral music or play piano, Dad to be familiar with classical music, opera, etc.
Hip-hop as a genre is not even two generations old. Impossible to be tied to the upper classes yet (if it every will be). In terms of musical sophistication, even a guitar would be considered "lower class" (as in less difficult to learn, more difficult to become a virtuoso in) compared to a violin or cello.
There are entire hierarchies that can be built on musical sophistication with social class alone, a great book that elucidates this is: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Class:_A_Guide_Through_the_American_Status_System
Connor Roy was interested in politics from a very young age.
Fantastic Observation, Spot On. These Days, No One Cares How Old Your Money Is. The More Zeros Behind Your Net Worth, Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, Etc., The More You Are Globally Respected.
The Roys are one generation away from being Old Money. However, they are so brash and tacky, but their aesthetic is fabulous. I love them!! LOL
Kendle's kids are old money.
They are several generations away from being Old Money. Old Money requires long standing traditions and etiquette that I doubt is even possible to establish today.
@@Hugo-G No. 3 generations of wealth is old money. Etiquette has nothing to do with old money. You are inherited into that status. Even if your entire family are rude slobs. - Examples: Look at the Kennedys and the Royals
Even at the top of the caste system, there's a caste system.
Well said!
Fabulous analysis.
Thanks Tyler!
Correction: Logan's ex wife was CAROLINE not Catherine. He is currently married to Marcia Roy
Yes we corrected that on screen in the video
You pronounced noblesse oblige incorrectly - it should be “noblesse obleej”
Ultimately it comes down to the difference between a true aristocracy (which, if it is to endure, must be rejuvenated with some new blood from time to time, but in a very careful process) versus mere oligarchy.
Of course even the oldest American families are, in the largest sense, all new money. Those who can trace their descent from the Pilgrims, etc today may be considered a kind of "American Aristocracy" but in the grand sweep of history they were very middle class.
Carnegie was well on his way before Rockefeller came on the scene and their time lines are intertwined. They were also booth self mad men, not sure the old vs new money comp works with these two families here.
New money never lasts so I don't think we have to concern ourselves with new money taking over, however, as a self made new generation of wealth, I can say that old money is an attitude as apposed to when or indeed how that wealth is generated.
Makes sense why Logan hates his kids so much now.
Ostentatious displays of wealth. Elon Musk and his fellow "tech bros" are the most visible exemplification of new money today..
It's not noblesse obligée (forced nobility) but nobless oblige (nobility demands).
Omg! let the man enjoy his rap music without prejudice 😂
😂
"...the Adams Family..."
For some reason, I heard the snapping of fingers :)
"The wise shall live off of the foolish" Big up to the old school asthetic...
My grandfather left me 32 Million dollars, but I said no. "Keep your money, grandpa", I said. That was new money. I wanted old money, All the dollar notes in the briefcase were smooth and new. I don't think this is what you mean by new money.
Haha!
background song from the beginning ?
Epidemic Sound
I watched the recap
I don't care about what happens in that particular show, but like all tv shows and movies about rich people its interesting
teeny tiny correction: "oblige" from "noblesse oblige" has no accent, like "beige"
Es una serie increible, con unos actores en estado de gracia, pero que en mi caso necesito verla lentamente para intentar digerirla. Es como un plato de cocción lenta. En cierto modo me parece encontrar alguna similitud con la novela La rebelión de atlas (Atlas shrugged). Excuse me but my level of English is very poor. Thanks for your video.
Muchos gracias!