Geronimo: Freedom Fighter or Cold Blooded Killer?
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- čas přidán 2. 07. 2024
- Geronimo: the most famous Indian in the world. Bob Boze Bells dives into the controversial question: Was he a Freedom Fighter or a Cold Blooded Killer?
Bob Boze Bell is known as America's Western Storyteller. He is an artist, author, writer and serves as executive editor of True West magazine. Bell is a popular, sought-after figure in television documentaries about the Old West, appearing as an expert in dozens of Wild West history shows. Bell won an Emmy Award as Executive Producer of the PBS special, Outrageous Arizona, a zany look at the state's centennial, that he also wrote and helped direct. As an author, Bell has brought to life Billy the Kid, Geronimo, Doc Holliday, Wyatt Earp and Wild Bill Hickok in his best-selling Illustrated Life and Times series. His books Classic Gunfights I, II and III are must-reads about the most important Old West gunfights. Bell’s Bad Men is now in its fourth printing, while his illustrated autobiography, The 66 Kid: Raised on the Mother Road, gives personal insight into the passions that have driven him on his lifelong quest to interpret the history of the American West for audiences around the world.
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How could anyone not like and enjoy this presentation about Geronimo? I was curious about what an Apache warrior's daily life was like so I read Herman Lehman's "Nine Years Among the Indians 1870 - 1879." Amazing...
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Why does Geronimo have to be either one? They are not only narrowly defined, there's only two of them. I would counter it says more about you than it does Geronimo.
@@dreed7312 ~ Geronimo was both Freedom Fighter and a killer. He had to be to survive. I do not judge him, and it says nothing about me. You are the one who attacked my character for no reason, and that reflects on YOUR lack of character and civility.
@@charlieswearingen500 if you can't read it isnt because you are being '"attacked." You presented a false dichotomy which isn't interesting. That has nothing to do with your character, as far as I know.
Why does Geronimo have to be either one? They are not only narrowly defined, there's only two of them. "I would counter it says more about you than it does Geronimo."
Germino and other native Americans should never be judged by modern standards. They were fighting for survival in a hopeless cause. They killed who they had to kill trying to survive. A sad and tragic period of American history.
One of the best talks I've heard so far. Love Geronimo and enjoyed the passion in your speech.
This was just incredibly interesting, I love Geronimo and he truly was more deserving of the term “genius” than some who are called that today. AND he loved cats?! Unbelievable! A real man, and warrior of warriors. I wish you would also do one on another Apache, Massai, he wasn’t as well known as Geronimo but that man was a ghost and could be almost invisible. I certainly wish I could have met both-though, preferably not as either one’s enemy.
General Crook, in reference to 5000 US troops looking for Geronimo and his band of about 80 Apache said, " It's like hunting deer with a brass band "
Vivid memories as a kid yelling "Geronimo" as we jumped from the cliff into the swimming hole. Thanks for the terrific video. I can't wait to read your book.
We did too, while jumping in the pool back in the 60's.
I believe, but am not positive, that the Geronimo yell originated with paratroopers during WWII as they jumped from planes.
@@riverraisin1 yep,
At the public pool, WE YELLED TITANTIC ~!!!!!!!! whenever a chubby girl jumped off the diving board !!!!! I am still laughing.
@@riverraisin1 I heard a joke when I was a kid (1970 something) about native American in Airborne military units yelling "Chuck Conners!" as they jumped because he played Geronimo in a movie.
@@jerryorange5140 🤣🤣🤣🤣
1920's still had Broncho Apache raiding and killing in Mexico but occasional raids and killings in Arizona.
Your Magazine is AMAZING! I really enjoy listening to your stories. The RESPECT you show all characters involved, it's something special. Keep up the great work....Also... when I was a kid I (my family) had a cat named Geronimo, but I had no idea Geronimo himself was found of cats. We named him Geronimo because he was a fearless little kitten - and such a great cat when he grew older. My father told me all those stories about the Sioux, the Apaches, the Comanches, about Sitting Bull, Geronimo, and of course Billy the Kid, Jesse James and on and on...and I am sure that if he (my father) was still alive he would have LOVED your channel. He always pointed out that a lot of the stories were probably not strictly The Truth, and to listen to you telling the truth - would have resonated with him. Again, the respect you show, it's a beutiful thing. Cheers from Norway.
Does he sell physical magazines? I want one.
I have a very critical and important Geronimo question.
When he jumped from a position such as a cliff into water, etc. What did he yell?? 🤔😉😁😁👍
I love your last comment, "If you don't like this, go start your own magazine." OMG that's classic! I wrote a couple of westerns set in Texas during Reconstruction and I really loved doing the research. Real history is so much more entertaining, interesting, both more beautiful and uglier than Hollywood could ever make it. I'm really enjoying your videos. As for the freedom fighter versus the blood thirsty killer, I think it is safe to say he was both. But what the historical revisionist won't acknowledge is the fact that the lifestyle he was trying fighting to preserve was one of perpetual violence.
I would love to hear more about Geronimo and other famous and infamous American Indian warriors.
I've always been fascinated by the story of Geronimo.
Oh man, I thought this was more like 1870’s and 80’s. Not the 90’s and early 1900’s! That really changes my perspective on it.
My God, the old west isn’t as old as I thought!
I like the Geronimo story Mr Bell. Geronimo has always been my favorite Native Ameriican. He is a facinating character.
My Grandmother was born in 1900. when we were young she would tell us about what it was like when Geronimo and his band would raid Janos Chihuahua. She would say nobody would be out after dark. She told us about family and friends that were killed in the raids. She also mentioned about the dead silence, and blood curling screams.
I wish we could have recorded her telling all her stories.
This is a great video, Thank you Sir.
well he didnt raid shit in 1900
@@jimbombadill
Didn't mean to strike a nerve, sorry.
These all stories she lived and was told about from her mother and Grandmother.
Same with stories about Pancho Villa.
Her Father owned a Cantina so she had allot of stories about people from that end of it.
Either you or your granda is lying, as Geromino was a prisoner from 1886 on, you freaking mo ron. You ckearly made it sound like your gramda was a personal witness. Only once you were caught in your lie did you change the story
Umm…. Yes.
Seriously - he was probably both. For his people he was certainly a freedom fighter, and he did enough killing that he probably got used to it - he was definitely cold, thorough and methodical about it, and I don’t think he ever hesitated when he thought it was necessary to kill. But, being a warrior fighting in a desperate conflict - being a “cold-blooded killer” is a virtue not a vice. Because the choices are get cold-blooded about it and accept it as part of your life/responsibility/duty, or just completely lose your freakin’ mind. You can’t rely on fear, rage, panic, desperation or hate to carry you through killing the enemy every time if you’re in that much combat and not completely lose yourself.
Geronimo is buried in the Apache cemetery on the back side of Fort Sill. I visited his grave while I was stationed there many years ago. It’s peaceful there now, but also kind of eerie - not such a comfortable place for a soldier whose ancestry is entirely European if you trace it back 3 centuries, but I still paid my respects.
"Hey, we didn't name an attack helicopter after them (Apaches) because of their bead work!"
I have always wished that people throughout the world would use their heads and be more correct when referencing a "Red Man" as a "native American". ALL persons born in America are native American! If you were born in Norway, what are you? A native Norwegian. If you were born in France, what are you? A native Frenchman. And it goes on and on like that throughout the world. The "Red Man" in America is a TRIBAL American! And that is something that is very special, indeed!
So informative. Enjoy these history lessons
Geronimo was a little guy, i read 5 ft 2 inches tall, don't know if that is actually so, but he was a mean little soul. I can't help it, I just love em. We still use some of his fighting techniques in our military, he knew what he was doing.
Assigning all of today's "best" morals to people of yesterday is an exercise in futility and silliness. Surely, many cross over. As sure is many do not. Excellent presentation and a great representation of what it meant to the people of the time and greatly instructional and educational for us today. Thank you!
Absolutely love this! More please! Greetings from South Africa
Fabulous fabulous fabulous. Thank you for this remarkable mans history. Savage and freedom fighter no doubt. Thank you.
What happened was horrible.But as Sherman said,war is hell.The same is true,for the Apaches.Sherman,was in charge of Indian Affairs.He was soley responsible for Geronimo's demise
Yes!
I would love to see more true history regarding Native Americans of the old west.
Crazy Horse especially.
He would never allow his photograph to be taken.
He & Geronimo basically had the same mantra but unlike Geronimo Crazy Horse was murdered & wasn't given the chance to grow old, like a lot of Chiefs who had also been murdered.
Aabsolutely brilliant, thanks for all your research I love your since of humor and the way you bring
History across 👍
"We didn't name a attack helicopter after them because of their bead work" lmao 🤣
Grazie..la storia di Geronimo è affascinante. Un grande combattente che non verrà mai dimencato ❤️
This has been such an eye opener for me! Thank you so much!
Great vid, Ty. Thank goodness that human history is cyclical and will sometime in the future look turn to another view of Geronimo that's not murderer, freedom fighter, businessman, and domestic engineer. Fortunately, mature history determines that the earliest sources are realized to be the most appropriate and credible. So, what Geronimo was in the early days is what distant future history will most remember about him.
Good stuff Bob, love hearing you tell about history and things! Keep up the good work buddy!
It would have been amazing to meet him! What a great man,!
This it’s amazing.I can guarantee students in our schools don’t know anything about this
Geronimo! I used to yell that as a kid every time I would do something dangerous! My two mentors are Geronimo and Crazy Horse! Thanks Bob!
That was a favorite war cry for kids in my day too.
I had been told that Geronimo's mother was born near Ojo Caliente NM. (Hot springs) Today it is a public spa with swimming pools and such. Since moving to New Mexico from Minnesota, I been there many times. Had to go thru there to get to land I owned in Vallecitos. Great post. Thank You.
Great channel! Love the stories!! Here in Tucson.
Attitude is everything!
another excellent account, B3. many Thanks, please keep 'em coming~!!
You are giving us great information, I love listening to you. I read that the apaches use to attack the Navaho, who were very loving and peaceful Indians. Afterword's, the Navaho would reciprocate twice over. This kept the Apaches at bay for a time, then they would do it again. This was a dance they preformed for many years - - - apparently.
The Navajo also gave them the name we know them by now - Apache itself isn’t originally an Apache word…. It’s a Navajo word that literally means “enemy”.
"loving and peaceful Indians" Was that before or after the murder, r***, cannibalism and child sacrifice?
My grandmother meet geronimo. She was a orphan Cherokee.
For myself, Lozen was just as interesting. Great video.
She is our lil sister
Well done, sir. Thank you.
You are so interesting. Thank you for all your history. I learn so much from you. Your telling of all this is so in grossing, to me , spell binding. Thank you Bob Bose Bell.
Thank you so much !! we just love all of your videos!!
Great History lesson on Geronimo this video is wonderful
Love your videos....keep them coming!
REALLY enjoyed this , thanks 👍
When you go to war you go to kill the enemy in any way you can. History is written by the conquerors. Geronimo was one of the great guerrilla fighters. If it’s me or you, with no apologies it will be you. And the American government chose to eradicate the native Indians. If I was an a Indian I would have been a blood thirsty murder. Love your blog.
So well said! Great stuff again.
No one tells it better than my friend Bob. Miss the headquarters !
It was never black and white between the Apaches and either the Mexicans or the Soldiers, let's not forget that Mexico put a bounty on Apache scalps and in turn Apaches often raided deep into Mexico. As for Apache endurance and capabilities look no further than Nana who successfully evades capture for nearly twenty years.
Geronimo True American Hero.... and True American Villain.
Thank you sir for the interesting stories .
History is far more complex. My ancestors fled slavery and came to the US in 1600’s and then became slave owners. Over the centuries they fought for the King of England and then fought against the king of England. They then split and fought each other in the civil war. They were racist and anti racist, they were white, black, Mexican, and Native American. I’m a mut but because of the three generations am mostly European genetics.
Fantastic podcast.
One of my favorite Jimmy Stewart movies is 'Broken Arrow'.
It answers your question about Geronimo.
Thanks so much very interesting. Greetings from Arctic Norway
Fantastic!
Well done video Sir 👍👍
Enjoyed your presentation, will order the book. I have a good friend who says his grandmother was Geronimo granddaughter, do you any info on Geronimo's wives?
first off, i love the gunship apache, they can be as ruthless as its name sake.but i really like this program of yours.if i hear it from you it is chiseled in stone.please keep up this great work of yours. tyrell santee
My first week of jump school (paratrooper) was at Ft. Benning, Georgia in June of 1977. The 3rd week was jump week where we had to make 5 jumps to get our wings and I remember to this day the jumpmaster telling us before each jump...Don't yell "Geronimo" when you exit the aircraft! He was more worried about us counting to 5 - I think - after which we were supposed to look up and make sure our parachute opened correctly, etc
Thank you bumpy for your service
@@davidrice3337 Thank you, but, I humbly say "they" did more for me...than I ever did for "them." 👍
I feel like saying America took the land from the natives is insulting. They fought a long war and they were absolutely capable of winning.
Great stuff! The history of the west and America is deep in its layers. Right and wrong is often swirled into one ice cream. I think that because the continent of America had humans coming to with different ethnic backgrounds it's easy to make the devide that way. Much different from history that was mono ethnic and the lines are drawn more clearly in actions then origins. It is a fascinating story.
I don't need to start my own magazine, because I like THIS 😀
Good Video
The town of truth or consequences, use to be Hot Springs, was a place Geronimo stayed at often for the healing springs. I'm told by locals, that he lived near here, close to Silver City. I always thought he hung out in Arizona. But this area apparently was close to where he was initially arrested as well.
good stuff
He was a hero!
All I can say is, Only in America. Amazing
WoW ! Thank you. He was obviously very smart. From general to teacher, to farmer with a lot of, strange to us, behaviors along the way. You know he is the one who probably thought of the white man as stupid. Paying for his buttons, photos, paintings. How he managed to keep his wits against so much army seeking to kill him, is beyond me. He probably learnt the same way to not walk into someones house with dirty boots. Considering the times, the mentality back then towards natives. He managed and succeeded.
You didn’t mention how their children were forcibly removed to Indian schools in Pennsylvania where lots caught TB after which they were allowed home were their parents caught it too, this is how Lozen died the famous sister of Victorio, during their stay in Florida and Alabama lots died of malaria they were treated abominably. Geronimo always regretted surrendering he was tricked into doing so on false promises, even the Chiricahua scouts that had worked for the army were sent into exile.
How do I get the book?
We came and took his way life
The Apache war tactics are still taught to the US military to this day.
What an interesting guy. Outsmarted the White Man his entire life!
I read that book, 1973
Liked the shakesperion quote !
After camp grant I can't say I blame him
Geronimo and me used to hunt rabbits I used a Henry rifle and Geronimo used his hands :)
You are a wonderful storyteller. You have brought Geronimo to life.....I remember the 1970s song Geronimo"s Cadillac by Michael Martin Murphy. My grandmother was part native american...the culture is much more in tune with nature and have a spiritual connection that is undeniable.
What do you think about the chano silva interview 🤔
sounds like geronimo was a comedian. i bet he had some good jokes! great video!
All apaches like a good laugh
Mr. Bell, please do a Arizona Rangers book.
But Bob, what about Geronimo's Cadillac??
An Apache does not forget his birthdate place! Yes, in Arizona
What did yell when he jumped out of an airplane? "Myself!!!"
Heck of a life story.
Lololol! If you don’t like this go start your own magazine! Nuff said!🤣Love it!
10k only equals today's 250k?
Somehow I doubt that very very much.
What is the reason for not returning to Geronimo's body to Arizona?
👍👍
is it known did he ever have a parachute or knew what they were for?
🤠👍
What's that old Indian saying don't judge a man until you walk a mile in his moccasins
He did what any of us would do if we were invaded.
He wasn't the the only ruthless killer, not by a long shot. The Americans and Mexicans certainly were no angels.
🙂
I'm surprised nobody's quoted "One person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter." And, while you hear plenty of populist politicians beat their chests and hump the flag, they rarely put themselves at risk. At least Geronimo led from the front.
You just did, right? 🥸
Native Americans only did to the white man what they did to the natives - scalping, I believe, was started by white men. Interesting to know Geronimo had over 50 wounds! These people were out in the intense sun all the time and must and must have had incredible vitamin D levels, which meant they were immune to infections caused by wounds that would kill others with lower vitamin D levels because of infection.
That would be a fascinating thing to research, and I never honestly thought about it. I definitely don’t doubt it!