Thank you so much. I’m excited for this study. Can’t wait for Lili Boulanger challenge. I should have the orchestration done in the next couple of days.
As a Chinese who has interest in Japanese culture, that element only adds to the beauty of Debussy's piece. Hokusai's Wave was a great element. Some parts sound just like Chinese melodies. I'm amazed that a Frenchman from half-away the world could have done this.
Many thanks for the detailed analysis of the score! I've been looking for similar videos on CZcams for a long time. The video is very useful for both conductors and composers. Ravel and Debussy have left us amazing examples of refined and beautiful orchestrations. With best wishes from colleagues from Russia!❤
In the first two screens just the low strings alone take me to a windy sea cliff. As they descend I get the impression of the wind calming down. Looking forward to go through this series to learn (and be impressed) more.
Even as great an orchestrator as Ravel was, I just cant imagine him seriously contemplating reorchestrating this. He did orchestrate one or 2 of Debussy's piano pieces but...this? I had always been told that Debussy looked down his nose at Ravel not vice versa. La Mer is truly one of the best examples of Orchestration
Debussy disrespecting Ravel is also untrue. They had a very respectful regard for one another, but might occasionally snipe in a careless way. Debussy once correctly identified Ravel as the composer of Valses Nobles et Sentimentales at its "Guess the Composer" premiere, stating that "No other composer has such an ear." There are other examples of respectful estimations from one to the other.
@@OrchestrationOnline Thank You. I had read though that Ravel may have had some moral judgments toward Debussy based on the latter's treatment of one of his women. Thank You for posting this. Debussy is indeed one of my favorite composers and his master Orchestration is one of the reasons why. I have always been intrigued at how many orchestrated pieces of Debussy's music was done by others. One story I had heard (you can help me) was that he just really wasnt (unlike Ravel) all that keen on Orchestrating his Piano Music (But he still made his world famous Orchestration of Satie's Gymnopdies) I know that with Khamma he had pretty much just walked away from and just allowed Koechlin to Orchestrate it after the fact. But Printemps and La boîte à joujoux I had always wondered about.
Timpani have a fondamental sounding 8vb, so the beginning is really unison with Basses. And speaking of B major at the beginning because of G# is wrong imo. It's simply pentatonic (or G# could make it B dorian)
Well explained. I think the re-articulation of the Basses in bar 8 is simply a pragmatic way of redirecting the bow by hiding the direction change within the impact of the upper strings. I'd presume bar 8 to be a down bow which, as it progresses into measure 9, effects a decrescendo.
Thanks, this was inspiring. Btw, a major scale with sharp 4th and flat 7th degree is called an overtone scale or an acoustic scale. Debussy uses it a lot. Even the intro had a moment of it when the Am6-chord was heard on top or the pedal D. Strings have the G#.
Is Debussy's F trumpet the same as Mahler's; an instrument with a longer tube length than a Bb trumpet despite transposing up rather than down? If so, how much do you think it changes the effect that orchestras don't usually use those anymore?
Yeah, in 19th-early 20th century scoring, an F trumpet is basically the same instrument in any score. There's a somewhat nobler, more full-throated tone with the original F as opposed to the B-flat or C, but it's nothing worth us backtracking and writing for the F. If we want an F alto brass instrument tone quality in our scores today, it's better to assign an alto trombone (granted that this is yet again a different timbre from the F trumpet, but at least the instrument will be available).
Keep in mind that in its original scoring, the F trumpet has a pretty limited range. That doesn't mean it couldn't be played down to its second partials, just that most composers avoided doing that. They kept the instrument in its middle and upper registers as much as possible, and probably for good reason.
I was doing some score study on my own today and it took me a long time to notice that the clarinets change from A to B flat clarinet at the key change. I kept wondering why they were a half step off from everyone else! 😅
He doesn't really need a bass clarinet in the tone picture he's developed. You have to think of instrumentation choices like a colour palette of a painter. Indigo was not one of the colours this time.
@@OrchestrationOnline Thank you for the reply. Would you recommend beginner/intermediate orchestrators take this approach or is it more simple to stick to the standard complement of double or triple winds, etc.?
No, because the context of the major 6th and the implied pentatonic around it suggests B major when the mediant isn't played. As I say in the lecture. Also the pitch of D isn't introduced as a mediant in relation to a root of B until the restatement.
Thank you so much. I’m excited for this study. Can’t wait for Lili Boulanger challenge. I should have the orchestration done in the next couple of days.
Great to hear! Looking forward to your entry.
Thank you for analysing this in such great detail, never expected that there is so much to learn all the way from the first page
As a Chinese who has interest in Japanese culture, that element only adds to the beauty of Debussy's piece. Hokusai's Wave was a great element. Some parts sound just like Chinese melodies. I'm amazed that a Frenchman from half-away the world could have done this.
How about Van Gough's Japanese style paintings?
43:46-End ❤️
Thank you for the analysis, it is very helpful to understand the score!
Thank you so much Thomas I’m so excited for the second movement which is my favorite!! Thanks for always making my day.
Many thanks for the detailed analysis of the score! I've been looking for similar videos on CZcams for a long time. The video is very useful for both conductors and composers. Ravel and Debussy have left us amazing examples of refined and beautiful orchestrations. With best wishes from colleagues from Russia!❤
I love this and really appreciate a lot of your presentation. Thank you.
In the first two screens just the low strings alone take me to a windy sea cliff. As they descend I get the impression of the wind calming down. Looking forward to go through this series to learn (and be impressed) more.
Thanks a lot for this. Great job!
Even as great an orchestrator as Ravel was, I just cant imagine him seriously contemplating reorchestrating this. He did orchestrate one or 2 of Debussy's piano pieces but...this? I had always been told that Debussy looked down his nose at Ravel not vice versa. La Mer is truly one of the best examples of Orchestration
Debussy disrespecting Ravel is also untrue. They had a very respectful regard for one another, but might occasionally snipe in a careless way. Debussy once correctly identified Ravel as the composer of Valses Nobles et Sentimentales at its "Guess the Composer" premiere, stating that "No other composer has such an ear." There are other examples of respectful estimations from one to the other.
@@OrchestrationOnline Thank You. I had read though that Ravel may have had some moral judgments toward Debussy based on the latter's treatment of one of his women.
Thank You for posting this. Debussy is indeed one of my favorite composers and his master Orchestration is one of the reasons why.
I have always been intrigued at how many orchestrated pieces of Debussy's music was done by others. One story I had heard (you can help me) was that he just really wasnt (unlike Ravel) all that keen on Orchestrating his Piano Music (But he still made his world famous Orchestration of Satie's Gymnopdies) I know that with Khamma he had pretty much just walked away from and just allowed Koechlin to Orchestrate it after the fact. But Printemps and La boîte à joujoux I had always wondered about.
From what I understand, it was a very busy schedule that caused Debussy to allow Khamma to be orchestrated by Koechlin - and not lack of initiative.
@@OrchestrationOnline Koechlin is my favourite orchestration so no loss 😍
Thank you. Finally someone saved my orchestration!
I watched this thoroughly. Thank you for the content!
You're welcome! Glad you liked it!
Timpani have a fondamental sounding 8vb, so the beginning is really unison with Basses. And speaking of B major at the beginning because of G# is wrong imo. It's simply pentatonic (or G# could make it B dorian)
Well explained. I think the re-articulation of the Basses in bar 8 is simply a pragmatic way of redirecting the bow by hiding the direction change within the impact of the upper strings. I'd presume bar 8 to be a down bow which, as it progresses into measure 9, effects a decrescendo.
Illustrative and instructive ❤️
Thanks for the video! It is very helpful. Have you ever considered doing a video on Scriabin's Poem of Ecstasy or Prometheus?
thank you for your video. it helps me a lot to compose music
Good to hear! You're very welcome!
Merci beaucoup
Thanks, this was inspiring. Btw, a major scale with sharp 4th and flat 7th degree is called an overtone scale or an acoustic scale. Debussy uses it a lot. Even the intro had a moment of it when the Am6-chord was heard on top or the pedal D. Strings have the G#.
Is Debussy's F trumpet the same as Mahler's; an instrument with a longer tube length than a Bb trumpet despite transposing up rather than down? If so, how much do you think it changes the effect that orchestras don't usually use those anymore?
Yeah, in 19th-early 20th century scoring, an F trumpet is basically the same instrument in any score. There's a somewhat nobler, more full-throated tone with the original F as opposed to the B-flat or C, but it's nothing worth us backtracking and writing for the F. If we want an F alto brass instrument tone quality in our scores today, it's better to assign an alto trombone (granted that this is yet again a different timbre from the F trumpet, but at least the instrument will be available).
Keep in mind that in its original scoring, the F trumpet has a pretty limited range. That doesn't mean it couldn't be played down to its second partials, just that most composers avoided doing that. They kept the instrument in its middle and upper registers as much as possible, and probably for good reason.
Thanks ! 10:20
I was doing some score study on my own today and it took me a long time to notice that the clarinets change from A to B flat clarinet at the key change. I kept wondering why they were a half step off from everyone else! 😅
thank you for this, could you do the prelude a l'apres midi d'un faune
Maybe someday. A lot of composers in line before I come back to Debussy.
@@OrchestrationOnline I hope Sibelius is on that list :)
Great Video!!!
Could you make a video about sth by B.A.Zimmermann? He also has interesting orchestratian.
Greetings from Austria
Maybe someday!
This series of videos are wonderful, thanks a lot. What advice would you give to someone whose dream is to become a video games composer?
Why does Debussy not take a 3rd clarinet or bass clarinet? It would seem to me to be a puzzling imbalance but I'm sure he had a good reason.
He doesn't really need a bass clarinet in the tone picture he's developed. You have to think of instrumentation choices like a colour palette of a painter. Indigo was not one of the colours this time.
@@OrchestrationOnline Thank you for the reply. Would you recommend beginner/intermediate orchestrators take this approach or is it more simple to stick to the standard complement of double or triple winds, etc.?
G#s in the opening - just B Dorian surely? (as you mention later)
No, because the context of the major 6th and the implied pentatonic around it suggests B major when the mediant isn't played. As I say in the lecture. Also the pitch of D isn't introduced as a mediant in relation to a root of B until the restatement.
11:52 What piece does he mention here? I can't spell it and subtitles just say "palisade mothers"
'Pelleas et Melisande'
@@TimPriceMusic Thanks!