influencer made games are a threat to the industry
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- čas přidán 14. 05. 2024
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On this channel, I discuss topics like RPGs, CRPGs, JRPGs, FFXIV, Baldur's Gate 3, Diablo 4, Path of Exile, Elden Ring, MMOs, World of Warcraft, and gaming industry news. - Hry
As AAA readjusts (crashes) the rise of Indie developers is nigh. I welcome it. Talent will become the filter, not budgets. If influencers understand gaming, then more power to them.
Hopefully.
We just hope that the loop takes longer to come around.
I dread the days where the influencers and the big corpo will be the same entity
What an indie? That’s a falsity, they don’t exist anymore, they all got bought up. Indies won’t and can’t take over because they don’t control the resources, publishers do. You HAVE to go to publishers or hope to be the .01% on kickstarter
The Goliaths of the industry were once the David’s, this is no different. In fact it’s useful to the shareholders to let people think there’s been change when it’s just new faces
Unfortunately I don't foresee most devs being able to find success in the indie space if the AAA market crashes. The death of the AAA industry will come at the cost of the livelihood of uncountable people.
@@Zawaito They always were.
the DEI crowd are like locusts, once they eat up one section they move onto the next, Indie's are not safe from that cult.
Earn my money. AAAA games are dumpster fires. Why should I pay for day one failures when it takes an additional 3-4 years of patches and dlc to get the real game. By that point the game is discounted 85%. AAAA developers have ripped me off for the last time.
AAAA is not a thing.
not to mention the battlepass scams
@@alefnull it’s what the “high end” of gaming is pushing towards. Ubisoft and others are sayint their games are worth over $100usd so they can try to push us into their awful subscription services so we own nothing and are happy for it.
@BowtieJDP ok, so it only exists in their heads, which is the last place where that matters. you said 'AAAA games are dumpster fires' and I'm just saying there are no 'AAAA' games.
@@alefnull nah man, skull and bones is a AAAA game. ubisoft said that so it must be true.
Regarding the "gaming influencer" purchasing and conversion - gamers as a community have a weak sales resistance. It's part of why gaming is so big. But that sales resistance can be exploited not just to sell you games, but to sell you male beauty products or overpriced headphones. You rarely see gaming influencers sponsored by a gaming publisher - most of the time, it's the generic dropshipping brands that target them. And it makes sense, because gamers, as a whole, are the type willing to put down upwards of $70 preordering a product they won't get for 6 months. Preordering a prodcut where there's no chance of supply ever running out, thanks to digital purchases. This weak sales resistance is exploited across the board, with all kinds of garbage "gamer merch" - from RGB keyboards that suck, to "gaming chairs" and "gaming desks" and all kinds of gaming peripherals - all overpriced and targeted at exploiting a weak mind. I love gamers, but we really need to get better. Our weakness is causing the downfall of the industry.
As for influencer games - influencers are mere consumers who delude themselves into thinking they understand creation simply because they're famous. Critics who think they can dominate the medium they criticize. Their ignorance combined with their ego ensures they are incompatible with making a good game. The game they make must represent their brand, and that's a whole different issue.
Everyone is busier now with less time, less money, and less mental health to be consumed by petty bullshit. So we all want money well spent on things that respect our time.
Dr. Disrespects game is gonna be garbage. Its gonna be an NFT extraction shooter.
He is absolutely going to, two time his community with scams
Bad timing and horrible consultancy advice, methinks.
Imagine trying to sell NFTs in 2024
Most of the games made by influencers are pretty bad, but there are a very few exceptions.
Damn you read one news headline and just ran with it didn’t you
I am envious of the position.
To be able to gather a team and they make the game that is in your head?
That’s a life long dream come true. A bucket list item so prestigious it deserves its own, separate bucket.
"This... is a bucket."
DEAR GOD
"There's more."
NO
Underrated comment.
I think you're looking at this with the same rose colored glasses that people looked at crowdfunding originally. In reality this is basically the same thing. Essentially you're bypassing the standard publisher function.
The publisher does one critical thing for big budget studios especially: They eat the cost of failed games, and all of the costs not just the monetary costs. The personal brand will eat those failures when they happen (and they will). I don't think the level of difficulty in handling this is truly appreciated yet and I think it's also the biggest challenge for crowdsourcing still as well. EA's main function for the business of games is being the badguys so other people can be your heroes that are being held back by EA.
It's also worth understanding that many times what people say they want is not actually what they want, because they're not perfect or psychic. People will say "I don't like timegating, because it prevents me from playing the game", when they really mean "I don't like being prevented from playing the game" to use your own example.
Likewise people will ask for competing things. It's the diablo loot/content problem. People will get frustrated they both can't get good enough loot and don't have enough content at the same time. The loot is the content though. If you give them loot faster they run out of content faster. In reality they're saying the process of getting the loot isn't fun enough and they want to quit sooner than with other similar games. Taking player/audience feedback too directly can actually burn this down when people try to give you tons of loot and in order to drag the content (loot) out they make the pile of loot bigger. The game is just as unfun as it was before though and you end up with a giant pile of unfun play to access that content. This is what happened with diablo 4. I seriously doubt people will less business experience and more audience impact are going to negotiate these waters with more skill than the established players.
The AAA companies aren’t delivering. I think if a content creator wants to make/publish an actual game I say go for it. If the game is bad, most people won’t keep playing it just to support the creator.
Nuance is important. AAA companies owned and influenced by certain Western Investor groups pushing a particular ideology - they are failing to deliver. Everyone else? Is seemingly able to manage.
Once they pay for it, does it matter if they keep playing it? (Assuming it single-player)
@@formes2388 Nuance? What you stated was oddly specific and flat out wrong in a lot of cases. There are game companies everywhere that aren't delivering. I don't need to address the companies that are doing well because they speak for themselves.
@@laz7777 Businesses like to look at sales for success. However, the player count numbers actually determines whether or not a game is good. I would say it depends on your level of greed (short-term). I think the best answer is that it absolutely matters. If you want to make a lot of money (long-term) you should make good games and keep the players invested in your games instead of burning them over and over until they are eventually done with you.
What you're describing influencers do is what I would imagine what a market researcher or community managers should do. They don't, AAA is disconnected from their playerbase/fans for the most part and it shows.
We trust advertisements less these days, and the influencers we follow much more. When I want to find out how a game plays, I go to twitch or youtube, and *then* to the game's website if I like what I see. Marketing isn't dead, it's evolving.
I don't trust influencers but I have a littler more faith in the broader influencer ecosystem which includes comments from viewers/listeners. There are plenty of examples of shill influencers but the comment sections or chat systems do a good job calling it out.
the thing is, alot of IPs have also built in fans, like the streamers, but the big companies decided to throw a granade without warning into those fans of movies, tv/streaming or games
Around the 20min mark, you exactly said what I thought over time while watching: Publishing games through content creators might be like having a community manager with many years of experience. They already know their chat and how they talk.
Will just say, this was bound to happen, most advertising borders on false advertising, most review metrics are brigaded for one reason or another (and most reviews seem BS even then), thus streamers are kind of forced to take the mantle as the trusted source, since they can show actually playing the game, so that an audience can see and make a clear choice, especially since it's way harder to fake this in front of the customer. (especially since even if you are sponsored to stream something, the best thing to check a game is whether they go back after the sponsorship)
Do you think influencers pushing their own games are going to be any different? Prepare for a bunch of people relearning all of the same lessons. It will be No Man’s Sky x100
@@Nick-cs4oc As a note, I'm not really saying an influencer shilling their own published game will be reliable, just that Influencer's are the default reliable party due to the misinformation.
But it's also a case of unless the streamer is trading their career in, it's also not likely to be a full blown scam. (though in saying that influencers that are known scammers are still influencers so who even knows.)
22:38 That thumbnail is like a beacon. A glaring, reflective beacon. He will watch this.
He will watch this.
Watch this, he will.
Some might even predict that he will react to this.
still won't play baldurs gate
1hr and 45 min reaction
Influencer studios are going to have their own indie versus triple a situation sooner or later.
You will have amazing studios like Asmongolds, Klean, Dunky etc. and then you’re going to have dumpster fires like Doc, whatever Shroud is making, Operation Harsh Doorstep, etc.
At the end of day as long as the game is good that’s all that really matters. Everything else really doesn’t matter in the eyes and mind of a consumer but more so in the eyes of a businessman or investor.
Yeah I don't think Asmongold is going to have a good studio. To be honest I don't agree with a lot of the stuff he says
The ability to "put your money where you mouth is" is something that i think will make the next generation of major publishers. but i use "major" in a sense that they wont beholden to shareholder nonsense. They will ensure that what they want to play, or what there audience may want to play is exactly what gets published. And people are willing to pay abit more for a game they feel is worth it.
I really hope this is the wake up call for the gaming industry, but i honestly feel it will simply be a transitional period where the larger publishers are pushed out of the market in favor of these new ones. Least thats a hope. Who knows.
The king is dead, long live the king
At 12:00 phrase you are looking for is "actionable information".
Warframe did the exact opposite, they made their own content creation and feedback platform from inside through Prime Time, Devstreams and, most recently, DevShorts.
I see no difference between influencer's selling games to their audience and companies like ubisoft and capcom selling games to their audience.
"are this game made because of ego, where they think they can do better than real game devs"
The game devs are normal humans, with a set of skills that you can have or acquire.
And everyone has for goal to make a better game than the others, at least on some point. nobody try to make a game "average".
I DO like the idea behind "developer Shark tank" like OTK is doing. It allows indies to gain exposure, maybe get some funding and the backing of some marketing tools to help some really creative project. It's a huge step down from "AAAA" games.
Right, so they aren’t going to have all of the same incentives that AAA has? Or is this just how they build up to being the same? You can wish for benevolent people to save the industry but it’s not led by evil people atm, they’re just doing their job. OTK will be no different
My only issue with what is doing Asmongold is they aren't at all players that are into indie games, I would much prefer AA games done by streamers that play mostly AAA content for exemple as they are much more similar. In the contrary someone who is very into indie would fit more this type of show. (I say that because I love indie games and I could see how they don't know much about indie games unfortunately, the idea is great but it's an issue.)
@@RuffledFox that's a fair concern honestly. However, I think the exposure alone to a large audience is already a huge advantage, I do see that (so far) they bring experts or people familiar with the indie scene as co-hosts, and in the end it's better than no one doing it. Maybe this will start a new era of "community marketing" so indies can keep their original vision and not get bogged by corporate bs (my opinion at least).
@@Nick-cs4oc well it's early in the project. Will it end up like AAA? Maybe. But a live audience is harder to bs old investors than behind closed doors. In the end it's about exposure, and the consumer makes their own choice at purchase time. I guess we will see.
for the millionth time they didn't make it, they published it.
The light being on or off in the kitchen is throwing me off haha
waiting for a jumpscare back there
Have you ever heard about a game called Animal Well?
Idk if you're trolling or you're one of those people who comment before watching the videos. Either way it's cringe.
Necessity (opportunity) is the mother of invention - Plato
What’s the invention? Are we replacing the system or just the people at the top of the system?
My only issue with streamers getting into the game development/publishing market is that no matter what they do or make it will always just seem like another method for them to make another source of income, but by no means do they feel like true passion projects.
People will buy what ever they dish out but when it comes down to it they are just products and less on the side of art.
It just kind of becomes a popularity contest and followers=success. It’s like reviewers being friends with people in the industry, nothing will be upfront.
People keep expecting the industry to fix itself, we’re only going to see a few new kings. Nothings going to change because Mizkifs crew is in charge
This isn't really a new thing, yogscast published a TON of games back in the day, they just kind of never were very successful
The glazing is unreal
Hey, first time viewer, here, but I thought this was a really well-done, well-informed video. I agree with your opinion that content creators have the capacity to change the gaming industry, especially in this current gamedev environment. You're right - a lot of people are looking for smaller, less expensive (but still really high quality) experiences, and the more wealthy CCs are in a great position to deliver such media to a starving audience. I'm sure AAA, big-budget titles will always exist in some form or another, but it's always great to see the indie and AA community of developers thriving.
I am a software dev and I do a little gamedev on nights and weekends. It's a hard, hard skill to learn, but it's easier now than ever thanks to the bevvy of online resources. I know that sounds contradictory, but it's true. Game development is, in my opinion, at the moment the most complex piece of art you can engage in, in terms of production. It feels all-encompassing, requiring discipline in art, music, effects (both sound and visual), cinematography, writing, and so much more, and that's only for the aesthetics. There's a lot more to get into when it comes to making something feel good.
But like I said, easier to get into now than ever. I personally have used Unity, Unreal, Godot, GDevelop and Game Maker. I've also messed around with a few JavaScript-based frameworks, which are a bit different than a full on engine. If you are interested in game design and creation, I'd say, pick an engine and a coding language. Don't shy away from learning to code, either, it's the most essential skill for game development. But I highly suggest learning by doing something small, and moving from there. There's a ton of resources here and in other places (and most game engines have great documentation, which is honestly the first place I'd start when learning any of these new tools). I'd also not worry too much about drama in the community as a whole - a lot of people are toxic as all hell in the Godot and Unity communities, and people *love* to shit on Unity devs right now (my main project is in Unity, so I get a lot of this that I just...ignore) - most the devs I talk to in the field are of the mind that you just need to pick an engine that can do what you wanna do, and make stuff.
Good luck, bros.
If it wasn't for watching a few let's plays on CZcams, I never would have played Dark Souls, or any of the the other FromSoft games which are now some of my favourites. I'm way more likely to buy a game now after I've watched a let's play, and seen whether it's really up my alley or not. The reverse is also true, where there are games, like Palworld, and Animal Well, that are very much the zeitgeist, but are absolutely not for me.
Another great and well articulated video, thank you! I always enjoy hearing about news and your own thoughts, even if I don't have much to comment
I think this step forward will obviously have both pros and cons we're bound to see some streamer/youtubers will try to pull scheme and scam like games while others may actually be releasing actual games with no schemes and scams in its foundation.
Its organic content farming, instead of the current industrial scale clickbait content farming that is the CZcams META.
I don't see a downside for consumers.
Thats actually one of reasons i quit warframe early.
1. You dont have anything, you want the new thing, but everything is insanely timegated.
2. Even without time gating the game have so many systems you have no idea where to even start
1:00 synthwave goose from bladerunner 2049 is such a good song!
Great vid. It made me think about how much yours and your audiences opinion matter to the devs. Keep up the good work!
OTK's Starforge builds good PCs according to Gamers Nexus. I think their group is legitimately trying to run a decent set of businesses. IDK what is coming out of Mad Mushroom though, which is their game studio.
I’m glad the “milk man” is getting recognized~ His run of new Vegas is hilarious~
Do you know about the game Fretless The Wrath of Riffson?
the main character is supposed to be Jared Dines famous musician youtuber, dude who hosted Metal Mansion last summer.
Tons of youtube musicians are making songs for it. Even Alex Moukala (he's like the Hanz Zimmer of game music). I have still yet to see any game reviewers talk about it......
Also, the game, The Last Medic.. it's really really good, Once Upon a Synth made it.. the whole game, and all the music, he's a youtuber musician turned game dev
What I want to see is
1. How will loyalty and parasocialism play into sales and criticism of the product.
2. How much will these games sell for (they almost all universally bash the $60-70 tag).
3. How well the games are made to known game design knowledge, which includes how hands on vs hands ofd they'll be to the people making the game.
4. How experimental vs standard will the games be? Will they be pushing ideas like Animal Well or will they fall back to safe-games like AAA?
for warframe, you prolly got so many ppl saying it wasnt that big of an issue cuz all the high hrs long term players that got tired of it might of left😶. the long real time wait on constructing items by itself probably isnt gonna get someone to quit, but it is an issue and a compounded one. before it wasnt that big of a deal cuz as a f2p game it was one of the only a few ways they were monetized, it sucked but understandable, but now with all the ways theyre monetized from fan creations and the increased price of the prime bundles having to wait 4 days after the already egregious grind for a new or frame you dont have is painful and unnecessary.
Basically a game streamer and their audience also makes for a really good QA team.
Great takes lately man, good job
Absolutely true, everything that is said and addressed in this vid. Well done LD. Well done.
Feels like a dangerous tipping point
What next? The Kardashian's selling makeup?
I'd rather influencer make games than mega corps. At least a influencer knows they need fans and have reason to protect their brand, and we the consumer can guess based off how that influencer has behaved for years to gage if they might be good with game development.
The uhhhh..... the timegating in warframe is most CERTIANLY so thay they can sell the microtransaction that instantly finishes the crafting. I can guarantee it never had any notion of being any kind of a positive for the player back in development
Edit - I feel like I should note that I'm not saying it out of negative bias, I love the game and have been playing it since BEFORE movement 2.0 in like 2014 or whatever
There's been a pattern of AAA(A) games are failures at release and have a sale just 2-3months.
It's a double-edged sword. Because content creators can just as easily take advantage of their audience. Dr Disrespect's game is a nft dumpster fire, and the fact that hardly any content creators mention or talk about it is disappointing, including you.
Games were made from gamers for the gamers and really games are meant to be fun, engaging and overall unique experiences. Games are about gameplay and telling a interesting story with loads of plot twists and turns. It was never about the issues with female characters in games or sending a political message. Its all about fun whether its with friends or playing alone in the dark..there are games made for everyone. We need games to go back to being niche and we need to gatekeep these so called "journalist" and "influencers" out. If anyone has ever played through an entire single player game it gives list of names of people who worked on the game in the credits after completing the emtire story. Iv decided to put my career goals into being a 3D artists and that is what im going to do😢
I’m just here for the spiritbox shirt
Influencers are as trustworthy as any AAA Publisher at any given moment. Otherwise I would playing Raid Shadow Legends thinking it was game while eating Pokimane's trash biscuits.
Animal Well is 50MB.
Whoever Dunkey just pulled to make it knows how to do a ton with very little.
A real developer. The guy did everything from scratch by himself. And it's awesome.
The guy was developing it years before Dunkey agreed to publish him. It's not like Dunkey had the idea and then hired a guy to develop it for him or something.
Not 33MB?
What's the name of this game 13:20
After the latest news from Microsoft broke down, I realized I played very few AAA games for myself this year. I write reviews so I played multiple AAA games for that but personally I spent my money mostly on indies and AA games in last 7-8 months. And the way things are going, I do not thing that will change in near future. I also started (lightly) to learn some development basics myself as I really wish to contribute somehow to independent market instead of throwing insane amounts of money at tril/billion companies.,
I think a lot of the triple a developers are going to be replaced as house names with what were previously indi developers in the next 10 years 100% unless triple a does a 180 on the path theyre headed down, indie devs will take lead because theyre msking what gamers actually want- good games.
My great uncle is Norm Green. He funds games because he is bored. I do not see a problem.
Atomic picnic looks like it could be a less intense roboquest. I loved Roboquest at first, but I am not a high APM person and that game makes me feel like I am straight trash sometimes. A problem of my interaction with FPS games since I over value skill and reaction time in them, so combining FPS and rogue platform is just not my cup of tea.
When will people figure out that more games aren't a threat to the industry, they're a threat to established, bloated, and lazy developers/publishers. There is always a bigger fish and when you aren't competitive or offering a good product, your customers will go elsewhere. When you insult your customers, they will eventually stop buying your products.
Asmongold saw all those mmo scams and was like "hey guys I need to make an mmo" xD
Game Grumps also had a very well received game in Homebody recently. Lots of passion going into these indie games. The “cash grab” mentality could be true for some creators, but it’s a lot better than triple A games when they’re almost all purely cash grabs.
Without question, the creator platform will be one of the game development industry's biggest factors that shape it's own landscape. Personally, I can only see this growing much larger, and overall being more productive and successful that traditional publishers currently imagine them capable of being; AKA, copium. I could be wrong, but we shall see.
No this is what's saving it. I am also seeing a genera of what I am calling Live React Gaming or LRGs and I am doing research on making games that are not just engaging for the player but the ones watching. You need to expand your mind and get out there and see the world a bit.
It's a pleasure to listen to smart thoughts on this emerging trend :)
did that NFT game from doctor disrespect ever come out? or was it quietly swept under a rug? 😂
Good video. Big companies don't wanna show off too much and even D4 wasn't giving ptr versions of seasons and patches. Big companies spending 100+mils don't want the game to be ruined by early perspectives when they could be getting public info on how to make a game better. Xbox/PS look for the first dollar not the long dollar. Now that people like myself can judge a game by 5-10 hours of a streamer and not a 30 second commercial the tables have turned. I'd much rather a streamer influncer that can collab with the devs to adjust and produce a good product than a 70 dollar flop i play for 3 hours and regret wasting my money on. Also, 5-10 dollar games are much more viable now instead of a purely CGI gorgeous experiences. if its fun and engaging its more likely to sell than what used to be crazy unique graphics which are all common now but cost $$$$$
Can’t wait for the reaction 🔥
The inverse of this is Dev-turned-Influencer which is Pirate Software
Pirate is a G
superb insight
That thumb nail though!
I’ll take the route of cautious optimism. With AAA studios dying a gruesome death, Indy devs have never been more relevant. Creators developing their studios could be EXACTLY the break in freedom the industry needs. There is a sense of blind loyalty to be careful of, though that argument could apply to any studio today. The disconnect from AAA to gamers is so vast, I think we need people who are connected, who actually care about the product they release. Granted they’re able to avoid the AAA greed trap, higher end creators with deep pockets creating their own games is EXACTLY the type of change the industry needs.
A publishers job is to fund and market the game, and most of the time they’re picking up a project that’s already worked on enough to have an idea of where it’s going. You have to be really incompetent to mess that up as a CZcamsr.
I think maybe some influencers could publish/create games with integrity but if influencer publishers start taking off I'm sure it's just a matter of time until it's the new boss same as the old boss.
Doesn't matter if the creators are criticizing stuff legitimally or just to bring views, what matters is that it is bringing them the views, so companies and studios should take that seriously.
More independent (non corporate) gaming ventures is what will save this medium of entertainment. If the games are good, they will do well. If they are shit, nothing will save them, no matter how much "influence" is backing the effort.
As much as AAA gaming has been completely collapsed under the weight of corporate greed, with technology now allowing great games to be produced with smaller independent development studios, I'm all for encouraging more and more creators throwing their hat into the ring.
Animal Well is supposedly incredible. I'm planning on picking it up soon.
Helldivers 2 is still blocked in 177+ countries lets get that info right.
biggest hit in what way? stellar blade has that cake so far i believe
just got off my 85th hour of hades 2 so i could come laugh at AAA companies
5:11 i believe you meant Pokemon?
Yeah, apparently my brain glitched for a second.
As technology advances, it only makes sense games will become easier to make. Just need to have some people study Ai so can compete with bigger companies that will have an Ai advantage in games.
brother, what a great video. i saw you in zackrawrr's twitch chat the other day, you make awesome videos and i hope you continue to and if you would make a game, i wish you success in that as well! I truly believe that content creators are the future of game publishing and marketing because these big companies are just too slow to compete. Great video man keep up the great work!
Living example of gamers/streamers with their own games is "tavern light games ravendawn" and "wingeon drakantos"
ArrowHead has abusive Discord Mods. Never say the name "Grummz" Or risk the wraith of their furry Discord Mod silencing you.
These influencers will be running to their mommies when the industy comes out with AAAAAA-games
And what about exclusive titles? Years after (not months, but years) get release on PC at full price. Using excuses like: Devs need to get pay. When devs got pay when the game was released years ago.
I paid $11 for animal well, I’ve heard so many different prices … weird
otk's latest mobile pay to win micro transaction ridden mess is a good example
I dont think anyone should pick this up. Once you watch you'll see.
The only threat to the industry is the industry Itself.
also i'll take streamers putting a small team on the map over giant publishers buying competition and then cannibalize them. too many great studios have died to corporate greed.
i don't know how EA and Activation are still able to talk studios into joining their umbrella after destroying so much of the industry.
banger like allways!
I don't at all trust a game just because a youtuber I like threw money at it.
LOL TTRPG influencers do this ALL the time, and the quality of work is VERY questionable.
influencers lose their revenue stream over time. "branching out" to host / front / invest in game design is a natural evolution.
Folks will buy whatever it is because cult of personality is a thing, even if it's cardboard-flavored cereal. this is why steeamers and influencers get paid sponsorships in the first place. There's no guarantee what they promote has any personal investment from them or that it's even any good.
it's simply wolves preying on their herd.
New gaming era people, be the streamer of your on company/Game so you can actually play your game and listen to the game player base an make better changes to your game.
Lol how many spiritbox shirts does this man have
Save the Children Game Studios coming soon
A threat in a good way, yeah.