The Pros & Cons of Magic ebooks
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- čas přidán 26. 06. 2024
- In this week's episode of Erudite Magic, we're talking about the pros and cons of magic ebooks, and how I recommend you use them in your magic library. I'd love to hear your thoughts in the comments below. 👇
🛒 Shop this week with the sponsor of this episode - Don's Magic & Books. Discover OOP and hard to find magic book on his website: ⭐ bit.ly/DonsMagic ⭐
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⏱️ Timestamps:
0:00 - ebooks have arrived
0:24 - The two camps
1:04 - Where do you stand?
1:39 - Don's Magic & Books
2:23 - Cost & Availability
3:08 - Easier to use
3:53 - Portability & storage
4:24 - Will the quality remain high?
5:16 - Tangible property rights
6:28 - Magic shop threat
6:53 - Where do I stand?
7:49 - A final thought
📰 Can't get enough Erudite Magic on Sundays? Join my Newsletter and be part of the conversation as often as you'd like: eruditemagic.substack.com
And this episode wins the award for the best attire by a host. 😂😂 .
But seriously, another great episode. As with many great discussions, I believe the answer lies somewhere in the middle. As someone who traveled the country for five years in an RV, hard copy books represented space and weight, and we were severely limited on both. I limited myself to five hard copy books and was thankful for my hard drive of ebooks.
This reminds me of the never ending discussion among magicians about which tool is best for learning, books or videos. I sadly don’t remember who said it so eloquently, but it’s like arguing which tool is best for eating, a fork or a spoon.
Great video discussion, Jeff. To add to your fine points: Equilibrium effects of ebooks might lead to decline in quality and price directly: 1) The marginal cost of piracy (and reproduction) for ebooks is $0, which means that pirates are direct competitors of ebook publishers (no difference in quality, only price); 2) in order to compete, ebook producers will have to lower prices even more; 3) the high quality (high cost) material may become too unprofitable to be published, because the profits are not regained. Simplified version of Gresham Law (for books in circulation) , where bad books drive the good books out (and the out-of-print books will remain out-of-print).
Interesting points!
So happy that this is finally happening! Piracy happens with printed books just as easily, or maybe even more easily that with e-books. Those that have lots of physical space for a home library, or that simply can't handle not having the book touch and smell can keep buying books on dead trees. Those of us who don't have the physical space can go the e-book route. This is good for our art!
Agreed, I think only good things will come of this.
Great show and great topic! be wonderful if publishers would offer a free e-book when you purchase the actual book. This way if you have a flood or fire or if your book is lost whilemoving, at least you have the e-book. As for me, I will continue to buy actualbooks.
Charging 25% more for the ebook in addition seems like a good insurance policy. I'm going to continue buying physical books, too
That recently happened to me. I had a leak in my storage locker. Not only did some books (college textbooks) get damaged but I had to move them to another locker and move them back when the leak was fixed. Books are damn heavy to move. Thankfully I was smart enough to have not stored the magic library there and had them close at hand.
That's a bummer about losing books to water damage
@@jethro1963 very sorry to hear that.
@@EruditeMagic agreed.
Although I’m not really a fan of ebooks I’m not completely sure why that is the case. While I totally acknowledge the ecological advantages as well as the convenience of ‘owning’ a searchable digital file that can literally be viewed on tablets, phones, e-readers, etc., I’m still of the opinion that there’s absolutely nothing that tops hardcopy books. I’ve purchased ebooks before and ended up printing them out to study and read. Those that weren’t printed have been quickly forgotten and will likely remain unread. I also have concerns about the potential for the ever increasing piracy of pdf files even though that’s been an ongoing issue for many years now. Thanks for another professional and thought provoking video, Jeff!
I published Sub Rosa in 2018 in both print and digital formats. You can buy a pirated PDF for five bucks. I published Card Stories in 1995 in print format only. The plates were made directly from camera, so no PDF ever made. You can buy a pirated PDF for five bucks too. Ebook availability is not going to increase pirating - it's already at 100%.
Sad, but true! Thanks for chiming in, Ariel!
I've been steadily divesting myself of old fashioned dead tree books. When we moved house, thirty years ago, the removal guys took one look at the number of books we had and did a runner. I don't want to leave my kids with the problem of disposing of them when we die. But there are a bunch of categories of book that I 'collect' and I'm not getting rid of any of those.
But if I'm spending the kind of money most magic books cost, I'm pretty sure I'd want it in paper anyway. It's that ability to do what you want with it because you OWN the book. Ebook publishers can change the terms of your 'ownership' at whim, it seems.
What examples have you seen of ebook publishers changing T&Cs? I'm not aware of any 🤷
Always good stuff!
Thanks, Brett!
How is it possible that each of your videos gets more and more beautiful?!. I need to go on vacation!
😄 you do!!
At the risk of sounding like a fanboy, this was not my favourite video. As a former TV guy I noticed all the technical aspects and paid less attention to Jeff. I was distracted by the backgrounds and the walking and less on what he was saying. I'm likely in the minority but I'd rather laser focus on what he is saying and not look at the pool in the background or the selfie stick shadow or the drone shot. I get that Jeff wants to expand his capabilities and switch things up a bit but speaking (for this guy alone) that's not why I watch or more truthfully... listen. JMO
@@jethro1963 cool! To each his own. I liked seeing the change in scenery and new camera stuff. I get what you are saying
You do what you have to do to get an episode out on vacation 😄
I hate having to look for pdfs and downloads in different places sometimes remembering passwords and crazy stuff like that and if a website goes under and you can only access that book through their portal of stuff it’s just annoying. I often forget what I have and out of sight out of mind I won’t practice but if I see a book on the shelf and have 15 mins to kill I’ll grab it and try to learn something. It’ll also should cut down on cash grab stuff, printing and publishing is more work and more expensive than creating a pdf which should discourages anyone from just flooding the market. Idk it’s all subjective but that’s my 2 cents
I agree. You can't just pick up an e book and flick through it. I have ebooks that I've never read because they just aren't the same. Fine for a novel but doesn't work for magic, for me at least.
@mattdavis8096 I understand!
Ppl need to know about accessibility. If your in a different country it can be harder and even takes months to get a book. Some books can't even go to certain countries. Ebooks help alot for that
Very true!!
I got VI ebooks during the premiere promo. They were at great prices! Like Jeff, I will still get physical books of select authors or featured magicians. Ultimately, I still prefer to read from a page than a screen.
I've got many ebooks and...I still buy physical even if I have the ebook because it's NOT the same experience of reading!
For me, the advent of the ebook has become a means for me to be relevant and share what I think. I am an amateur/hobbyist magician, and a serious one at that. While I make a good living in my real work as an educator (loving what I do and never wishing to trade it in), I am not willing to invest any of that living into overhead costs for my amateur/hobbyist passion. Ebook and digital download publication is a way for me to be active in a meaningful way without taking on unnecessary personal risk. Likewise, I depend on Penguin to platform my material. While the royalties are slim in this model, at least my material will have a real market, provided that it is good and in demand. I ask the question, would the earliest printers have forgone the printing press for the kind of digital delivery that we have today? I think that they would have. I think that the affinity for (and perhaps even the idolization of) the medium of physical print is largely a byproduct of just having it. That being said... I love physical books as much as anyone... but I'm glad that I don't have to print them to get my thoughts and experience out there! Great video!
I’ve been into magic now for nearly 15 years. If I had to do it all again starting now, I’d probably try to avoid buying any physical book or DVD.
When I close my eyes and imagine a nice clean room, I don’t see any books in my room. On the flip side I don’t currently own an E-reader, but I do have an old tablet that I’m currently using to read Genii magazine. Furthermore, there are few books and DVDs that have sentimental value, I’m gonna be stuck with those and that’s okay. Granted, they might be put into storage out of sight someday.
I really appreciate the integration of text and video, and so, as you’ve brought up on this channel, where do we draw the line between making something a book or a video? Well, if you don’t have video equipment, looks like you’re stuck writing a book which is how things were done. We have the technology now to do both and Vanishing Inc. has no excuse to not do both.
Let me give a critique of Vanishing Inc. that you can take or leave because it’s pretty cynical. The founders at their core have a nostalgia for magic books and rightfully so. Why shouldn’t they? They grew up reading magic books and how nice, now they have a company that can create good magic books and they have control over the quality and they can make sure nothing half baked ever comes out. Good, good, good. Excellent. Yes….however, I don’t think making a project as a book based off of nostalgia for books alone is a good basis for choosing the medium. An oversimplification perhaps, but that's how I feel. Also, if any new book was now just released only on ebook, there’d be an entire audience that would be LIVID. So, they can’t currently stop making books. Currently, that is.
I feel like in today’s day and age, the intake of information on book or video is closer to the same experience than in previous years for one reason. Books are great because you can stare at the same piece of information for as long as you need. Trying to learn something through the medium of a DVD was maddening because you have to start at stop at exactly the right time. I’m sure it was worse for VHS. But if you have the correct computer set-up, which not everyone has, you can now go frame by frame and stare at the image for as long as you need. We even have technology for videos to be transcribed.
On the flip side, information in a book will be absorbed at your own pace which is beneficial. I’ve fallen asleep during more than one Penguin lecture.
Maybe the line isn’t so much about book or video as much as it is making a project physical or digital. But if you’re going to have a digital ebook with integrated video, then the physical book needs to have the same capabilities, which VI has proven they have the power to do and they should maintain that standard.
As I look at my shelf, the main VI books I know I’d keep are The Definitive Sankey because that was a big magic purchase for me at the time and I spent a whole summer reading them. But I don’t have the same attachment to the two Daryl books, Artful Deceptions, Parlour Tricks, the Scripting Magic volumes, or The Boy Who Cried Magic. My Jamy Ian Swiss trilogy is annotated which I felt was necessary at the time and still do as I look through them. Those are mine forever.
Though not VI, I’m still enjoying Sleightly Absurd, but that’s also because I attended Magic Live for the first time last summer where that was the book of the convention and I got to meet Charlie Frye and see him lecture. But I love the stuff in that book about the same that I love the Penguin Lecture. Would I own the book if I hadn’t gone to the convention? Well…it probably would not have been as close on my radar as it is now. I gonna say no, I probably would not have immediately bought the book. That would have been a shame.
Whatever the case, this is my stream of consciousness on this subject. The ebook transition is a necessary step forward, but this transition will take time.
I think 75% is excessive I have a couple of L&L e-books. They usually ran $20 and if you were patient, they would run a 50% off sale and I felt that that was a very good price I wanted one trick from "The Classic Magic of Larry Jennings" and while I had notes made from watching CZcams videos. When they ran it for $10, I bought it to have the original description. I later found it in a box at a dealer's booth and now have a nice Hard Backed copy. The other was for one chapter with multiple methods for a single effect. This allows me to "Repeat" a trick when asked and since I can pick an opening, middle and reveal from several and not have to worry that I am doing the same trick several times to the same audience. My complaint is paying a hard backed price for a small perfect bound copy which will fall apart when used. I avoid buying them. The few I purchased in error seemed to be made by doing screen captures of video presentations and adding minimal text.
I don't have any issues with ebooks being available, I've just found they aren't for me. I just like sitting down with a real book.
I had purchased an ebook version of Jeremiah Zuo's Confessions of a Magic Fan because I missed out on getting a physical copy. I enjoyed it, but just didn't reach for it when I wanted to sit down for a practice session. A couple of years later, he posted that he found one last box of books, so I purchased one and got a lot more use out of it.
For another example, I subscribe to the online magazine The Disclaimer. I chose the subscription tier that gets you a physical book at the end of the year. I find myself skimming the issues when they get released, but don't study them thoroughly until I get the physical book.
I totally get it!
I haven't figured out how to get my ebook signed by the author!!! I DID take advantage of VI's recent ebook offering and about half were dupes of what I have in hard copy. 75% still strikes me as high considering the cost of production and shipping saved, but the market will tell....
Ha! Do you have a lot of your physical books signed by the author?
I grew up with hard copy magic books and love them but since I've passed the half century mark I find them harder to read. While I prefer when that wasn't the case, I don't mind what I am doing now. Even though I am a long time tech guy I don't like the small screen size of smartphones or the touch input of tablets. I have a laptop permanently connected to my big screen TV and that is connected to a wireless keyboard. I can make the print as big as I want in a much bigger area than a tablet. I have found I have started to read again. It works for me.
That's great you found a way for it to work for you!
I agree with the need to support creators. Next step hyper library, an ability to build a book on topic. I would love have a book on purely faro. One that grow with next creations. A big advantage is the increase of photos and drawing. Since I am a researcher by heart (I've got boxes of zeroxed journals) I support V-ink's enterprise. Last books feel good in your hands. While type on this phone at my elbow is Mnemonica.
"Hyper library" - that's a new one for me, but very interesting!
I'm torn on this topic.
I love how my magic library looks in my living room. There is also a good feeling when you know you have an out of print book that most people don't have.
I'd also love to have the eBooks to all my books for when travelling ,space saving and/or to preserve their condition. Also as a preservationist I like knowing the information in these out of print books can still be accessible.
This sounds similar to my Five Foot Bookshelf idea. Have the books that are sentimental and meaningful to you as hard copy and the rest as Ebooks. It's hard for me to picture but I bet only one fourth (probably less) of the books I have hold sentimental value. The rest could just as easily be Ebooks.
That's why I thought this was a good topic to explore - it's a serious conundrum for a lot of magicians. Thanks for chiming in!
Where was this filmed? I like it!
Hilton Head Island 💙
As an older magician (age wise), i “prefer” hard copy books. There’s something about flipping through the pages and knowing where you are roughly in the book. However, i am interested primarily in the content, so ebooks are fine for me. My con-is maintaining the digital library. So i have ebooks listed in an excel database with links to the file.
You always want to use a database for a database not a spreadsheet :)
I get it, Dean. I'm not that old, but I still prefer the hard copy
Depends on your skill set, Jethro 😉
@@EruditeMagic Not hard to do but the last time I tried to point people in the direction CZcams deleted it.
@@jethro1963 agreed. But I HAVE excel 😁
eBook Format is important - many magic books have images and therefore they are released as a PDF. That often means reading on an iPad/Tablet, and for someone who works on a computer all day, I don't want to then relax by reading on a screen. Unless the book is epub or mobi - then I'm unlikely to choose an ebook, even with a 25% discount (and loss of resale ability!). Large screen e-ink readers do exist but they are often in the region of $700 +
I still prefer hard copies of books, but if l do buy an ebook and like what see l will get the book printed and add to my physical paperbound books. 😊😊😊😊😊
Sounds like a good plan, Robert!
What are the rights/considerations of printing a (Vanishing Inc) e-book at a pdf print service, such as Lulu?
I have zero interest in ebooks. I have pretty much everything Vanishing Inc published but don’t see myself ever buying an ebook from them.
There you go!
I don’t think E-books are a terrible idea, but I understand why people are reluctant. These are the same arguments people made for ebooks and physical books when e-readers emerged. As for the pirates, well, they will always be there, but maybe in an epub format where they are difficult to copy. Either way, we will see what happens in the future. 😊
Pirates haven't ruined regular books, so you're right - we'll see!
@@EruditeMagic I also have about $3000 sunk into my physical book collection and its not getting any small or slowing down. The feeling of a physical book cannot be replaced .
Totally agreed - love my physical book collection!
I love ebooks (in general) so long as (1) they are MUCH cheaper than the print book and (2) fully portable by bring available in different file-types so I can choose the device I use to read them. I understand why VI have decided to go exclusively PDF but that's a big negative for me as I love using my e-reader.
Magic ebooks are a whole different beast than text-based novels. Thanks for sharing, Tom!
If I could get a pdf with the purchase of my book, or even a little price I would be ok with it. If a person could put all their pdf’s into a database and be able to search them all at the same time, that would be cool.
I think the younger generation might embrace this, but I highly doubt the older half will ever buy ebooks. There is not enough of a discount on an ebooks.
I have bought pdf’s and have never read them. Maybe younger people that hate books might like them, I do not. Nothing thrills me more than to walk into my magic room and look through my books to find a book to read. It’s a thing of beauty.
Something you might do is create a graphic for those that buy pdf’s that shows a picture of their pdf library in a bookcase. That might help some to enjoy the value of looking at their collection. It’s the beauty of owning physical books.
As an official old geezer, I agree and disagree. I love my books and you're right they are a thing of beauty, but when they get to the point of ornaments much of the value is lost if they aren't being read. For some reason I have got to the point where I don't like to hold books and read anymore. As I posted above I now read off a big screen TV which works for me. Although I love the look and feel of a hard copy book the purpose is too read it and for me there is only one way now. And that probably means I won't buy any more hard copy books.
Perhaps a solution going forward is the Five Foot Bookshelf. Get hard copies of the classics or the ones that person deems to be classics or their ultra favourites and have the rest be ebooks. In my case I would have Tarbell and MW, and AMH and then a couple of personal favourites like Gene Anderson and Lewis Ganson. After that I'd be happy enough to have ebooks for the non sentimental "career" books
@@jethro1963I hear so many people state that you can’t possibly read all of those books. I have spent a fortune on my magic book collection. I had 40 books that took me over 20 years to collect. About 6 years ago I started collecting magic books. A friend of mine buys collections all the time and sells them. He discounted them a little for me. I now have over 1500 hardbound books. That does not count the boxes of pamphlets and lecture notes that I have.
Can I read my books cover to cover, no. That is not my plan. My library is a reference library. When I’m interested in a topic i love that I can pull a stack of books on the subject. The thrill of having a book that someone references on a trick is a huge thrill for me.
I won’t read an ebook, it’s not enjoyable and not easy to find. If I had hundreds of pdf’s and I don’t remember the name, it’s not easy to find.
Another thing that would help is if there was a list of our ebooks with the cover of the book that we can scan through and click on the cover to open it. That might help.
Thanks for your response Jethro.
Books for me I’m afraid.
Can you explain why
No reason to be afraid 😁
@@jethro1963 Don’t like the backlighting shining and straining my eyes.Love the smell and feel of a book.Like to see a bookcase full of books.Easy to sell unwanted books.etc.Books for me and ebooks for those that like them.Not a fan.
@@kalvheps5973 I agree with you about hard copy books, As for the eyestrain and other reasons that's why I don't like tablets and phones either. I don't mind reading from the big screen TV though.
I do not own an ebook and probably would not buy one. Just cant replace a bound paper volume of work IMO!
Everyone will have their own needs, and I respect yours!
your video is funny, you edited out the selfie stick your holding to record the video. When you are walking. But we can all see the shadow of your selfie stick in your video. Looks like you are walking a invisible dog, LOL!
Gotta say I noticed that, first time I've ever seen (or not seen) somebody do that. Kind of like a modern day take on a Dancing Cane :) Now back to the video.
My invisible dog has a name, thank you very much! It's Cam... 🤣
I would expect this to increase the price of physical books, because it makes a physical book the luxury option. I can understand ebooks as a supplement for those books which are truly long out of print, and where the interest is so small, or the rights are tied up somehow. Lybrary is full of gems in this category, and it would be a great loss to not have these ebooks. But that is very different from ebooks being the norm, and physical books being the exception, from launch. This will make physical books even more rare, and very significantly harm their resale value, to all but a very select few.
I very much doubt that ebooks will overtake physical books in terms of market share. In fact, I expect them to settle around 'regular book' market share levels
@@EruditeMagic That could be, but having searchable, stealable pdfs available to Google on launch day means the contents of that book are far easier to acquire, and the secrets far easier to discover. The secrets in magic books which are not available as ebooks are far more safe. Yes you can take photos of real books, but thieves don't generally go through the trouble, and if they do, I'm betting they don't convert those photos to searchable text.
If I were ever to put together a book of my material which I had painstakingly refined over decades, I would want it only in physical books. I'm sure there are many, many creators who feel the same. But who knows maybe they need the money and this is the way it is now and they really have no choice.
@@EruditeMagic That could be, but having a searchable, stolen pdf available to Google on day one devalues the content of any book released that way. Everything in that book is one Google from exposure, and the more popular the book, the more it will be exposed. As a result there's not much reason to take the contents too seriously. And since ebooks can't go out of stock there's no rush on buying the book anyway. Why, then, would a physical copy be valuable? Few would value a web page more if they printed it out and read it that way instead of off their computer screen.
In contrast if a release is only a physical book, then that is a barrier to exposure which protects the author's material, and the book stays valuable. You have to pay something to do the material. You have to value it. There are only so many copies available so the value tends to go up.
Going forward I will definitely buy less VI books for these reasons. And not because I'll steal anything, but because the professional ebook format means it's already been stolen. It's in the thieves' public domain. And the better the material, the more they'll steal and perform it. The reason it's not a big deal for lybrary stuff is because the material is generally dated and you have to be good enough to adapt it. Not so with a fresh new release.
Piracy with Ebook is a lot easier than physical books... Also , quality of Scan copy of physical books sucks ...so pirated physical books are of lowest quality
So if I understand what you're saying, you're arguing that offering ebooks will increase piracy?
@@EruditeMagic Correct .. it will drastically increase piracy. Also , quality of pirated copy will be as same as the Original ones.. several people can contribute money together to buy only a single copy, then they will just share it amongst themselves..because there will be No quality issue in shared copy..
I guess we'll see...
It will be the same as downloads are today. China will duplicate and resell for pennies. That really makes me sick.
Maybe i am a bit old-school, but I always thought that if I buy a physical copy of a book i should be able to get the ebook for free... I don't understand why there is an extra cost, or maybe nobody has explained to me the process behind making an ebook (but i don't think it's quite hard...)
They're two different products? 🤷
@@EruditeMagic well, i don't see it that way haha
Maybe i'm wrong but i feel that once you have a physical book, there is not much added cost for making an ebook... So if I buy a book i should have the opportunity to receive the ebook in the same pack without extra cost. Extra cost must be justified 😅
There was significant work in making our catalog digital-ready, but I'm unaware of any print industry that gives you a free ebook with the purchase of the book (unless it's a limited time promotion). Like I said, they're two different products 🤷
@@EruditeMagicI have a handful of books that included the ebook version. It’s nice, but I’ll never read the ebook version. I recently bought John Carey’s Friends II. He included the ebook version of volume 1. I downloaded it, but unless something is referenced, I doubt I will ever open it.
As Much as I Love Joshua Jay, As much as I Love Andi and as much as I love V. Inc. E-Books are a NO-NO for me !
What are your reasons?
@@EruditeMagic The romantic ones: Nothing smells like the pages of a book (and it doesn’t run out if battery) The practical Ones: A normal book doesn’t get interrupted by Texts, calls,emails on their pages.
@HanselSP 😄 legit. Thanks for clarifying!
A paper book’s value grows over time. When it comes as an Ebooks it diminish its value. You can even recover your investment with a book. I think it is was a bad move to make their books ebooks. People are not going to pay the value when now thet can get them cheaper from some pirate.
We'll see, won't we?
@@EruditeMagicyou can’t sell an ebook, there is no value in it.
Not sure about that, Scott. By that standard, there's no value in a drink or a meal, either. 🤔 Just because you can't resell it, doesn't mean there's no value in it, right? 🤷
@@EruditeMagic I’m not talking about the use. I’m talking about resale value.
@@ScottRSmith1964 sure, that was one of my points. No way to recoup anything if you change your mind
I used to have a nice little library of VI books that I hunted down. You know has a way better library now? Thieves.
So I take it you don't have a use for ebooks? 😄
@@EruditeMagic Ebook periodicals for things I'm not that excited about, but might need for reference purposes.
@mathmusicstructure you're saying you buy periodicals as ebooks?
@@EruditeMagic Yeah there's a bunch of old periodicals available digitally, and that's a pretty good way to own them. For VI the obvious example is Talk About Tricks. If I had known it would be $20 I wouldn't have bought the physical copies, probably.
@mathmusicstructure it's not. It was an introductory offer.