'If We Burn': The limits of mass protest w/Vincent Bevins | The Chris Hedges Report
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- čas přidán 11. 04. 2024
- The 2010s were a decade of revolt. From Athens to Atlanta, Santiago to Seoul, a global wave of protest brought masses of people into confrontation with the status quo, demanding an end to neoliberalism, racism, climate change, and more. Yet despite this upswell of grassroots political activity, little lasting, positive change followed. What sparked the past decade of mass protest? Why didn't it result in political transformation? Vincent Bevins, author of 'If We Burn: The Mass Protest Decade and the Missing Revolution', joins The Chris Hedges Report for a retrospective on the decade that set the world on fire, and how to adapt its lessons for the challenges ahead.
Studio Production: David Hebden
Post-Production: Adam Coley
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The Real News will regret letting Chris Hedges go. He's the cream of the crop, the most honest and thorough journalist around. Shame on The Real News.
Chris announced on X that he was just abruptly sacked from his weekly interview program on “The Real News.” Very grateful this morning to TRT for inviting him on, his voice is so necessary, and yet the cowardly forces continue to try to suppress him. 'They' have gained yet another scalp but will have lost a lot of friends. The only friends they'll have now, are the ones they've bought. When/if you Unsubscribe from TRNN, make sure to leave a Comment giving your reason Why …
Chris Hedges' show is the only thing I watch on this channel.
FYI Chris announced on X that he was just abruptly sacked from his weekly interview program on “The Real News.” Very grateful this morning to TRT for inviting him on, his voice is so necessary, and yet the cowardly forces continue to try to suppress him. 'They' have gained yet another scalp but will have lost a lot of friends. The only friends they'll have now, are the ones they've bought. When/if you Unsubscribe from TRNN, make sure to leave a Comment giving your reason Why …
❤Chris Hedges! One of the absolute best people on earth. Thank you sir.
I like him too, but often I find myself falling asleep😴 whenver he talks.
He's great for my insomnia. 😅
FYI ~ Chris announced on X that he was just abruptly sacked from his weekly interview program on “The Real News.” Very grateful this morning to TRT for inviting him on, his voice is so necessary, and yet the cowardly forces continue to try to suppress him. 'They' have gained yet another scalp but will have lost a lot of friends. The only friends they'll have now, are the ones they've bought. When/if you Unsubscribe from TRNN, make sure to leave a Comment giving your reason Why …
Chris Hedges is such a truth teller. I could listen to him all day. He is like fine wine and he speaks facts.
Zach :
Chris Hedges is my classmate Charles (Chuck) Fuller from public high school (1965-9) MKHS in Alhambra , CA , USA.
Back then I was the fire-breathing revolutionary and Chuck was the timid political neophyte.
Today Chuck is the "guru".
I remain in awe of his commitment and accomplishments .
@@AlexanderDunetz FYI ~ Chris announced on X that he was just abruptly sacked from his weekly interview program on “The Real News.” Very grateful this morning to TRT for inviting him on, his voice is so necessary, and yet the cowardly forces continue to try to suppress him. 'They' have gained yet another scalp but will have lost a lot of friends. The only friends they'll have now, are the ones they've bought. When/if you Unsubscribe from TRNN, make sure to leave a Comment giving your reason Why …
FYI ~ Chris announced on X that he was just abruptly sacked from his weekly interview program on “The Real News.” Very grateful this morning to TRT for inviting him on, his voice is so necessary, and yet the cowardly forces continue to try to suppress him. 'They' have gained yet another scalp but will have lost a lot of friends. The only friends they'll have now, are the ones they've bought. When/if you Unsubscribe from TRNN, make sure to leave a Comment giving your reason Why …
I slept in Zuccotti park and spent a night in the custody of NYPD.
I remember seeing Mr Hedges there. (He's one of my heroes)
long live the revolution!
Thank you Chris and RIP TNN.
Orwell said the same thing about western international media's coverage of the Spanish Civil War. The big liberal papers painted it as a struggle between nice milquetoast liberal Democracy and fascism, when it was at least every bit as much a popular revolution against fascism and capitalism simultaneously. (Not to mention a civil war within the civil war, within the left itself, between the bourgeois Republic and its authoritarian stalinist backers, and the militant popular anarchist and trotskyite militias who advocated for immediate collectivization of land and industry)
Never trust a British or American paper to paint an adequate picture of another country's revolution
Or even in their own countries.
That's right, except anarchism doesn't work and authoritarianism is a liberal buzzword
@@Arjava.
That's a separate discussion for some other time.
@Arjava. Because ppl want power and even ML's will betray their brothers and sisters for it? Yeah super unfortunate for anarchism.
🎉🎉🎉 chris hedges …a great joirnslist of our time .Thank you for your work on truth ,justice and fairness .There is hope in journslism and fair media with giants like chris .
Great Interview. I cant wait to read Mr. Bevins book.
How did banks and corporations maintain control you ask? They were never punished in the first place.
Again, an educational and interesting conversation on this show.❤
Hedges really is a mastermind. He’s giving us viewers a guide to a solution. Those of you who feel isolated because of your conditions. You are not!
We have a road map thanks to activists like Chomsky, kulinski, Zinn, and Yates-sexton and Hedges!
This is gold here folks! Remember, the revolution is a perpetual struggle! It doesn’t stop! Don’t stop!
✊🏼
Just saying I don't think Kyle and Chris are on the same page at all. Kyle still thinks electoral politics can get us somewhere. Hedges has no such delusions.
@@JuanMercado91 show me where he says this
@user-lo6du8el2u his entire platform is based around policy and who has good vs who has bad policy and why, when he isnt solely focused on Trump and that circle on the far right. It's not information that should be ignored but his goals are far different than Chris's is all I'm saying.
Or just a focus on politicians in general.
@@JuanMercado91 I can agree with that.
Bring Hedges back.
Very interesting 🤔👍 power to the people! 🇪🇬🇯🇴✌️🇺🇸
I am actually reading this book now
Watched a couple interviews about it, but this is the one I decided I need a copy 😄
I was trying to give similar perspective lectures on these events at parties when we watched them, but I see here a wealth better granular detail
Organize! Organize! Organize!
Thank you Chris. I buy the most books from your podcasts. Just got this one. Your authors are so interesting I can't resist buying their books.
'The outbreak of Democracy which occurred in the 1960's must never be repeated.'
ha!
@@theresabarzee1463 I'm afraid that's a genuine quote. 🕳️
As a 15M protester in Spain, I think Spain was among the first to launch protests worldwide.
Giving someone the idea of defeat is a victory in a sense for the one suggesting things that may not be true.
I really enjoyed learning from Vincent.
Shame on the Real News for getting rid of Chris Hedges, he's a world treasure
Thank you. Great interview.
So fabulous a talk! I will get book for sure! And need to listen all the way through again, at least once! Chris, your interviews have brought so very many wonderful political writers, thinkers, speakers and activists to us. What would we do without those fine introductions linking us to your own reading and studied scholarship. Bless you forever. Wishing I could help financially. You deserve such funding as the best elders of your field do too! Free Julian. Take on the fools in power. Peace. -T.
Excellent interview!
It's very simple. No movement will live long if it doesn't have a strict organization, a mission statement an objective demands and heavy organization. Good bad or neutral, no movement can exist as an amorphous blob. Nothing gets done that way. And if we think this way we will always lose because the other side will always be more organized than we. So those people really had a lot to learn. Hopefully now they've learned it and we can move on. Power to the people, friends.
Movements don't come together like that especially in the USA where there are so many small outlying factions. We don't have a unifying culture to rally around here. In China for example the communist party was able to unify under the banner of being a more unified China, but they have thousands of years of interaction with each other and no CIA sabotaging them to death. If we tried to unify under one banner, then everyone else not under that banner gets repulsed away and nothing changes. We also have an obsession with moral purity rather than winning the day which only hurts us. The normal person has a defeatist mentality in the USA, that is how we have been programed.
Organization is power. Victory for the people is a choreographed dance around issues of power. Organization yes but this must be in dialectical tension with organization's contradiction in order to produce the third point - victory.
@@totonow6955 I'm sure you're right and that's all very poetic and beautiful but the truth is we live in a practical world where we have to get down to brass tacks. We can stay in a world of ideas or we can get out there and try to fight through the system. I see no way forward but through the pre-existing political structure. We can demonstrate all day but that's not going to change laws. Unfortunately unpleasant laws and courts exist. Public action matters but I think it's even more important to try to get organized both in front of and behind the scenes. The time for getting better people elected is now. Demonstrations are great and all but the Black Panthers showed that it starts with organizing and trying to get our own people elected. So did Eugene Debs. I think to to think otherwise is just wish fulfillment. We can start locally- there are the courts, and room for various lawsuits, then there are left political parties, getting our measures on the ballot, and trying to win political seats. If the other side can organize, why can't we? We just don't have the MSM conglomerates behind us but who cares? That doesn't make it impossible, just harder.
@@YourCapybaraAmigo_17yrsago
The brass tacks alone pov would be comforting if it was true. This project is not that easy. Notice Chris Hedges is a writer that often refers to fiction as well as non fiction. Let this be a clue. Perhaps Lackoff Metaphors We Live By would be helpful and appeal to your sensibilities. Solidarity comrade. We will all work together.
Move on to what!?
It's nice to hear well articulated scholarly perspective on these points, I recall at the time of many of these events giving similar take presentations at parties, so it's nice years later to hear well qualified background into these matters
Bless all people, a society ensuring the well being of it's individuals and their rights will thrive well beyond one person attempting to harness everyone,
Well being for all~
Both of you very excellent and appreciated speakers to these matters 🙏🙇
Thanks for what I found to be a very informative and important interview.
Unsubscribed since the show won’t go on.
Thank you Chris for all your amazing work 🎉 shame on “real news”
Great interview, as always.
Divest, boycott and defund. Its the only power we the people have left.
and GOD!!!
We still have the ability to build gallows.
Hell yea! but also unions
There are lots of nuts holts and screws accessible in a machine no longer working for us, eventually units can be disabled while we figure how to all be doing well evenly again, natural time outs lol.. we can only be beat so many times till it will make us stop working rather than output, in this case it takes eventually seeing a better path to consider taking further steps
The only problem with these three is it doesn't mention what we will evolve to, we can't devolve back to God and we will evolve, what we will take with us is the question, hopefully not more dominance hierarchies with no real goal of making things sustainable.
Chris is the most❤🌟🌟🌟🌟👑🔥
Oh wow this such an informative video! #truth #freedom
Very informative
There’s many books about anarchist history of the USSR and the Russian revolutions, from George Woodcock to Emma Goldman to Alexander Berkman
Behaviours emerge in groups of animals on one side of the world and after is replicated somewhere else without social media!!! Imagine what could be done !
Yes! Bamboo also blooms at the same time all over the world! How!?
Testing, testing. Was not able to comment elsewhere on the cancellation. And this is a two weeks ago program b/c RealNews pulled down the Dennis Kucinich interview. Will Bill Fletcher Jr be next?
Very great conclusionary points, depth of resounding
The leaderless idea for a movement cannot work in real life. The ideal solution would not be to have one leader (we know how that turns out), but a "team" or small group of five to seven people who would work by consensus.
Hmm like a politburo, sounds good
@@Arjava. Or like Switzerland, which has an executive council of seven people. Just one leader always seems to bring egomaniacs and cult of personality.
We had an insightful member during Occupy Detroit. He declared us to be a LEADERFUL organization. So many groups became autonomous and worked together and within themselves quite well. Conflicts happened between personalities, but over-all we knew we were best working together. 💪
Myself as individual? Myself as part of ❤❤❤ Devided we fall 😢😢😢
This book looks like a very interesting read. Thanks
I will listen to his audiobooks. I found them on CZcams.
It was only Vincent Bevin doing his 2024 book tour. But still an interesting topic.
I just learnd that Hedges' show has been terminated. This does not speak well of The Real News.
brilliant ! thank you
Very thoughtful/nuanced take-the silent drum in the background here is Zizek◼️ - please bring him on & discuss his book Christian Atheism 🙏
I’m done with RNN. They folded under pressure. I can get that on MSM.
Damn. You rocked my worldview with this one, Chris. Thank you. Every leftist should watch this.
Chris hedges was the best show on real news. Bye
Interesting- thank you
You can't defend against violence en masse without hierarchical structures. The trick is to create a heirarchy that is decision based only but where ppl can be replaced as seen fit by the people who they are leading.
Been hoping this sitdown happened....
I love the video and content but I am always fast forwarding through the intro and your abstract that you provide.
Chris announced on X that he was just abruptly sacked from his weekly interview program on “The Real News.” Very grateful this morning to TRT for inviting him on, his voice is so necessary, and yet the cowardly forces continue to try to suppress him. 'They' have gained yet another scalp but will have lost a lot of friends. The only friends they'll have now, are the ones they've bought. When/if you Unsubscribe from TRNN, make sure to leave a Comment giving your reason Why.
Can’t believe y’all fired Chris Hedges!!?? WTF???
Can we get the real news network to cover the story on the 215 unmarked graves in mississippi? This is a major story. A lot of people and families are greatly affected by the revelation and atrocities of the law enforcement in mississippi...
wow!
Movements not a failure. It continues.
As Chomsky said at the time Occupy was wonderful but they had no way of taking protest to effective policy change. Why do you think the Unions in the UK formed the Labour Party?
Does exist a similar study about de great mass protests more recent??
Like Friday for Future or the propalestine movements, what could be an estrategy localy or globaly ???
Ive not read his book. But have there been a post-mortem analysis of the recent chilean popular movement that arguably deflated?
To answer your initial 3 questions
1 not enough fire
2 not enough fire
3 more fire
The "tragedy" of Syriza? It was a counter revolution!
Loved this interview. The point about not having a plan after protest. The elite have been so smart distracting and dividing. Peace comrades! Let's never give up. Because..."We don't fight fascists to win, we fight bc they're fascists" CH. And..."sucking at something in the beginning leads to success at something" Jake the dog from Adventure Time.
Informative and my mind is blown… by what I’ve heard is difficult to put a note worthy dent in the existing structure… but I’m hopeful that we could…do it! All you have to be is humane and think of others as just that. Communication is key… also Jeffrey Sachs book on Kennedy proves just that..
No Analysis of Extinction Rebellion?
Mass street actions could go to n many directions, as the 2 experts say.This sort of action is thus a tactic- larger movement, if it exists, gives content to various
tactics’ forms. Even armed struggle/ political military violence
can go both ways at same time.
So disappointed they sacked Hedges. It was good while it lasted, TRNN.
Popular uprisings my ass. Especially in Ukraine, Egypt, Libya (!) and Syria 😂
Hey, Ned, how do you get political movements with no goals and no purpose?
This will be the last video I watch on your network. Censorship knows no bounds and I refuse to participate
Refuse. Resist.
Regarding natural hierarchy, with an appreciation for non hyper hierarchical structure... It's just not humanly feasible to listen to all members of a larger group. If you want to actually care and listen to each person, you don't have enough hours in your life. There is a natural structure for this sense to some chieftaining or other group tasking even in a rotatable sense, where someone will hear their groups thoughts, and the thoughts of the others summarizing their respective groups, the group summary presenters have their limits of hours in their life's, and concerns that arrive to their constituents within review intervals.
Perhaps a better individual enabling structure can aim to minimize the impacts and burden on these processes, and sabotaged structure can look like being too bogged down for us to have a voice anymore. It's too hard to be heard, which is the hierarchy most of us feel participant
Basically this guy is explaining what Trotskyist have been saying for 100 years now.
It'd probably never happen because it'd require Congress to vote to reduce their own individual power, but expanding the house of representatives and adding a way to do optional and mandatory referendums (like the Swiss) might help with people lacking any influence on govt policy. Really hard to imagine any congressman choosing to dilute their share of power tho. Vive la revolucion, baby!
Is this about Climate Change?
What if he combined the two topics?
yeah kinda heavy
It came to me, watching that damn BLM [show] that that type of outward emotional 'protesting' was going nowhere and old.
I hated hated the emphasis people put on twitter enabling the Arb Spring.
The green movement a year before in Iran (2009)
Why does anyone believe Guy Fawkes was a hero?!
During the occupy movement, there was a strong sense that anything that smacked of hierarchy was totally antithetical to the original purpose for the movement. The detrimental effects of the lack of any sort of leadership were soon realized when nobody could articulate the group’s goals, and anyone who tried was soon rebuked by the rest for any number of reasons, including their voluntary assumption to the position of leadership, as well as having listed goals in an improper priority or that should never have made the cut in the first place.
Making some form of hierarchy a taboo creates a dangerous vacuum that’s highlighted by the quote from someone named in Vincent’s book which ended with the line that said the elites are very well organized. It’s an important point for future anti-authoritarian movements to understand and remember. The authority of rules for a peaceful protest begins with the rule that it must be peaceful; but even that is a rule put in place by authority. Who will enforce it, and what if there are those who choose not to obey? The place where the answer to these questions is leading should be obvious. It’s to the integration of a rules based organization with an anarchist ideology. It just doesn’t work any other way.
This is the same or very similar to the default predicament, but likely not as worse, of us Black-Americans, as a result of the woke among us, who are by default, willfulness, or neglect allowed to speak, as if they represent all or most of us. There is no highly coordinated counter-effort to that which most say, is a systemic and structured force of opposition. We think in terms of being a homogeneous group, but in reality are far from it. There are those who continue to call for "Black - Agendas' which all have really been government agendas for us, and not a list of things we do together, for our collective benefit. The woke among us, who again, are largely unchallenged, have the attitude that all or most of our problems are because of racism in all its forms and the government. They refuse to acknowledge the significant degree we make our already precarious/tenuous situation worse. These are things that are within our power to change, but are ignored, to focus on the external causes, which we have little to no power to change. Democrats and the Left in general, allow us to self-destruct to a significant degree, which only weakens the political struggle of the entire Left side of the political divide.
Try democratic centralism
What happened? How come mass protest do not work?
If there is any indication that protest don't work, one only has to observe what happened in a particular Eastern block in the 2014s to know protest do not work.
What can work is to develop logic, intellect and rationality. Whereby most important of all are the development of effective love, effective peace, effective freedom and effective harmony to take place within and without every human being. It is to see and observe, to become aware that every human being is of equal value and that in order for us to survive as an Earth human race, since there are other human beings outside of our planet, it is required of us to seek and strive for these high values of the essences of wisdom.
No protest can achieve such high ideals since a protest only wastes energy of those who protest as well as those who are protested against since both sides do not come together and seek the essences of wisdom such that we can see each with equal value. How can we have dialogue, how can we understand the views and wants of opposite side if all we do is march, push signs, shout and scream, whereby if we then understand that this gets us nowhere, then has the potential to become violent, whereby everything that is worked for goes out the window. Thus protest does not work, for one can argue that the development of real intellect and rationality and logic as wrll as love, peace, freedom and harmony can because these essences of wisdom is something that we all share and can achive in a non-violent manner.
I think that you are forgetting the contentious 1960s! With the assassination of JFK, the Kent state student shootings by soldiers and the chaos of the 1968 Chicago Democratic Convention, etc!
Occupational therapy
Don't forget about the failed coup in Turkey
The problem was never no uavib representation. The problem was not beibg able to fill the viod quick enough .
You need to build Workplace Rank n File Committees, Local Workers Councils and a Revolutionary Party. These three work in tandem to viod he viod and confront crisus.
This is a pretty massive subject matter this guy is taking on. Almost as big as you can get. That is, radically transforming society. And I'm not hearing much more than that some impromptu rebellions in the last decade didn't end up transforming society, which of course is 100% what you would expect. For instance with Occupy Wall Street, like that was ever going to accomplish anything. I don't know what the key to achieving something so vast is, but exuberant street protests by an ultimately very small, disconnected group of agitators however well meaning, is never going to accomplish anything.
I've always thought forming new political parties, in our representative democracy, where the laws and policy are created, and where the economic and social fabric of society can be profoundly altered, is the thing to do. Even though it's hard, and thankless, and not at all exciting or romantic like protest movements are. And the citizenry would have to be continuously and vigorously involved at the grassroots level as you settled on policy that a figurehead representative would faithfully legislate and implement. But maybe that's what this guy is saying....
Just unsubscribed from the real news, on account of them firing Chris Hedges.
This channel is useless without Hedges
Ive noticed something , when i write a comment. It prints it up twice. But i only write it once. Weird CZcams.
I get that a lot too. I've no answer as to why that's going on, but it's very odd.
@@brianpark8758 indeed
YT's algo often goes rogue I find.
📍27:08
2📍49:16
Shame on "thE rEal NEwS NeTWORk" for cancelling Chris Hedges. I have unsubscribed and am encouraging everyone to do the same!
What you say about re-representing the Arab Spring or the media choosing to represent the masses that is contrary to the essence of the uprisings. This is also happening now when the Palestinians are being re-represented even while they are being killed, and the supporters of the Palestinians ignore that Hamas’ representation of the Palestinians is a manipulation of the Palestinian movement, and it is a choice approved by the mainstream media, America, Germany, Britain and Israel.
I UNSUBSCRIBED & I encourage others to do so. REMOVING HEDGES is not acceptable.
I love Chris Hedges, but the George Floyd story is long overdue a revisit by now by any serious journalist including him.
PsyOp.
UNSUBSCRIBING BECAUSE YOU CANCELED CHRIS’S SHOW. WHAT AN ABSOLUTE DISGRACE…. SO MUCH FOR FIGHTING THE GOOD FIGHT.
When rich babies can’t get what they want they lash out. Chris Hedges out here doing the real work. Lol unsubscribed.
I have unsubscribed from The Real News Network. Removing Chris Hedges means I can no longer trust your channel. Whoever made the decision, you totally sold out! Shame on you!
If Vincent used proper past, present, future tense in his descriptions of events his stories would be easier to follow. Also Tahrir Square is not “Tucker” square. It’s a sad situation when American academics can’t be bothered to use proper grammar and pronunciation?
Bevin has no special or novel knowledge or skill in his analyses of mass protests in this interview: the cadence then cascade of his dialogue in conjunction with his body language ( *especially* hand movements, head, facial expression, etc ) is highly suspicious [to me], but he, and sadly Hedges, seems oblivious of the *key fact* about much of the shortcomings he iterates: the *superficiality and lack of any real depth of knowledge* by these "masses".
This alone explains the "50 or 60" protestors he mentions, and Hedges mentioning Kropotkin capping the number at 150 protestors.
Bevin obfuscates/conflates this with his story of the free fares in mass transit/Movimento Passe Livre cause, unable to train numerous new joining-protestors, on a single, fairly simple issue, about a simple procedural process of how to progress that single issue.
*No mention* of how far were these mass protesters willing to go.... inhibitions by priestcraft {religion}, "stay back from my wallet", and of course cultural hegemony/'tradition'.... and *the Original Sin* - individual ownership of Land ( why is it *your* property?).... just the obvious, and wise conclusion that vested interests will do all they and their well-paid minions, to thwart such 'impudence' .
IMO, revolution can never be the answer, as it only results in the continued reliance of the new order on military power, to maintain the changes any revolution brings about. At present, at least here in America, too many of those with the warrior/soldier mentality, find the present order acceptable, if not preferred. Evolution from the ground up - meaning the people living the values that are inherent in a fair society, will then be reflected by the people we elect to represent us in government, and thus they will then pass the kind of direct life-affirming policies/way of living that reflect the idealism, the Left sadly only directs at government. None of this idealism is asked or expected from the people.
Try class contradiction as a method of analysis