Alsooooo Metheus & Maxwell, Cyclum & Charlie. Both share the same first letter. CoInCiDeNcE?!?!?! (for reals though, given how much Klei is obsessed with character names' first letter, this may be indeed intentional)
If you're correct about the different timeflow theory, then that means years in the constant is a negligible amount of time in the real world. Realistically, if Warly escapes even after decades, he'd probably be able to get back to his mother before she passes.
Hopefully that is the case for other survivors. How devastating would it be to return to your world to find out everything you knew and loved are all gone? (Except Willow. She burned that orphanage good)
It is true, but the fact that he experiences the time as fast means that the timeflow is probably the same, but that it just gets day and night quicker. If the timeflow was different, the wagstaff wouldn’t be able to experience this.
My working theory is that Maxwell’s time on the throne gave him a part of the ancient king’s soul or personality, which is why he recognizes the ancient guardian. I also believe that the ancient queen is Charlie’s shadow half, which merged with her somehow. It would explain why she has authority over the shadowy spirits of the ancient civilization.
@@pawlaczek6039 That is a valid point. If my theory isn’t totally off base, I’m assuming that part of the king’s psyche became bound to Maxwell specifically because he was the first human on the throne and has been on it the longest.
@@chintzygnat7665 well I mean he says that after you unlock him in adventure mode and the chacter you were playing in the world before lived in the same world
2:20 not only by wanda, but maxwell himself talks about it too the first time you meet him on the throne "What year is it out there? Time moves differently here." So yes, your timeflow theory is correct
Ok i Love the implications of this theory, but I want to share some of my thoughts on it and stuff you might have missed: 1. Wanda was already affected by her rapid aging before entering the constant, so it's probably not the right way to measure the constant's time compared to the normal world. 2. The Fuelweaver, which is presumably the king, refers to Metheus whenever you die/leave the fight, which would make him Cyclum, as he doesn't talk in third person. 3. And again, the Fuelweaver is a thing, so it doesn't really make much sense that Maxwell is both a survivor and a skeleton reanimated by the ancient king. Take these with a ton of salt, as they are just things I remembered of the top of my head, and I don't know much about the lore either
I think there was a merger of entities, Maxwell took the place of the throne of metheus and Charlie merged with cyclum, it would make a lot of sense with their nature, fazendk so it's not them, but yours. spiritual ancestors
I would say on the first one that wanda used shadow magic which may affect how her time works by using the constant's time flow instead of the real world
I take issue with points 2 and 3. We have very limited evidence to suggest that the fuelweaver is Metheus or Cyclum. Especially when you consider the fact that neither of them share the fuelweavers horn style. It seems much more likely that the fuelweaver is simply a guard
6:37 I think that Maxwell kidnapped other survivors using his puppets he can summon as a character so that they would free him from the throne. He makes it seem like the throne is important and gives great power. Example, his stages in adventure mode as the player gets closer and closer to it. Maxwell presents himself as a selfish and cruel person so that the other survivors actually want to steal the throne. They clearly believe that Maxwell isn’t great because upon examining a Maxwell Statue in single player as Wilson, he says “It really captures his personality.”
Maxwell, I believe, has a quote for the Ancient Statue that says something like, "They were all dead when I got here." Maxwell couldn't have been Metheus since all the people would have been dead by the time he arrived in the Constant from his Final Performance
I looked it up and you're right, though it's actually his (now removed) quote for the various Relics in the ruins (ex. the chair, table, and broken vases): "They were all dead when I got here."
This is actually very interesting. I never considered Maxwell having been in the Constant for more than the decade we know of, but it indeed makes his words while on the throne when you switch off the gramaphone ("I've been listening to that song for *an eternity*) make much more sense. Granted he could be just exaggerating, but his clothes are completely messed up, he just really looks... Ancient, not just old. And the flow of time in the Constant is indeed pretty janky. A few survivors comment on how fast trees regrow, and how weird things are, also in the Cyclum puzzle we see Wilson throwing a log in the flames and it instantly catches on fire rather than having to burn first, meaning that fuel burning much quicker than in real life is canon, and not just a game mechanic made for simplicity. I would imagine that Maxwell probably either had some accident while being a lobster, or became a lobster temporarily due to an accident, and probably was returned to his human form in a traumatic way of some sort, since he forgot so many things. Said accident could also explain why Charlie became what she is, maybe? Maxwell does say, on the Throne, that he's but a mere servant of the shadow entities. One thing tho, I don't think the statue is much of a clue. Wilson does mention, upon examining it, that Maxwell "is much shorter in person", meaning that Maxwell probably made his statue taller and more handsome because he's a megalomaniac. Still, it's clear that he has the power to, if not alter his look, at least create a new one. Maybe Metheus was some form of shadow puppet he used to interact with his new fellow lobsters in order to not provoke hostile reactions from them? Anyway, great theory! Just for the bit about nobody ever sitting on the Throne other than Maxwell, it really sounds possible. May your days be serene and your passion stay kindled, sir Bucket.
How so? He can grow a full beard nearly down to his feet within days(15 days, day 16's morning being when it's fully grown), when that should typically take years upon years. One of the longest beards in the world (I believe the longest by far, though the man is no longer alive) was quite literally 17 ft. long at the time of his death. This took him roughly 62 years. Genetics are definitely a factor, though. Wilson gives off the impression that he is not all that hairy (we don't know his origin country or anything so I'm basing this off pure speculation), so 15 days in the constant, each day being roughly 12 years... That's about 180 years. Just above triple the amount of years it took said man (Hans Langseth) to grow his beard, 62 years. Assuming that Wilson isn't particularly blessed in the facial hair department, him growing a beard the length of his body (let's say he's 6 ft tall, as far as I know no one has a canon height - and basing it off the in-game sprites wouldn't work.) so his beard could roughly be 5 to 5'5" ft long. Compared to a 17 ft long beard in 62 years, Wilson taking roughly 3x that amount of time to grow a beard a bit under half as long seems "reasonable". This is purely speculation though. Another point entirely is in Wanda's short, even before entering the constant, she's shown to age faster because of her use of her watches. So it's entirely possible that her aging is so much faster in the constant (even without watch usage) because time moves faster, but maybe by a less extreme number. Let's say she ages double time. 1 "Constant" day is 6 "Real Life" years. Wanda ages 12 years because of the abuse of time (I use abuse similar to how one can abuse a substance). So then, 15-16 days in the constant becomes roughly 90 years. Which seems more realistic compared to our IRL example Hans, where Wilson tool an additional ~30 years to grow a beard a bit under half the length of his. (Specifically around 11.5 ft shorter, but again, this assumes Wilson isn't particularly blessed with facial hair genes.) HOWEVER, this begs the question as to how characters like Woodie keep the same facial hair length indefinitely. Seeing how Wilson's beard growth is a special trait only he has, it may just be attributed to that - sped up beard growth to an inhuman amount isn't all that wacky compared to turning into a literal giant man-beaver. Nothing in the Constant is really "normal" though. On top of that, this is just a video game with some silly traits to it. And lore wise, this doesn't matter at all (probably). I didn't do exact math or anything though, and bare minimum research. I've been awake for like 16 hours straight so I've probably goofed somewhere. Also I don't know why I felt the need to actually look into this. It's interesting, I guess, but also I should probably just go the hell to bed lmfao. TL;DR - I'm a sleep deprived dumbass who half assed the maths and in theory Wilson's beard could prove that time in the Constant is accelerated by a very high amount. Or it's just weird beard magic considering it's only exclusive to him. The latter is more likely, though Constant time being faster by Some amount is still true(just probably not to the extreme level James presented). This is all in good fun btw, I'm not trying to spite anyone or something. It's just a funny thought that I kinda went too deep into. I should sleep.
I guess Wilson was "transported" using a portal, properly placing him into the constant's timeline and Wanda just got misplaced so her time flow is still linked to the real world.
Another interesting point about your time theory, it would also explain how characters can go from basic city people to something of a survivor themself in just a few years. All of the people in the constant seem to be from around the same time period, that being about the 1980s to 1990s. All the characters conically meet eachother in the constant mere years apart from eachother in our time, but when the new character meets the old character that was sucked into the constant like a year ago that character acts like he's been surviving for ages on his own and they know what they're doing, which would take the average person years to pickup skills like that. Basically what I'm saying is it would give a logical reason as to why every character is exponentially good at surviving as soon as they show up, its because even if they've only been there for a week for us they go through it like it's been eons. Just an interesting thing I thought I should point out.
I don't know about that Wanda argument... If time flows faster in the Constant, why she is the only thing to represent it? Doesn't she age faster just because she already played with time too much and it messed up how time passes for her and only her? Yeah, sure, a day in the Constant is only 8min irl, but that's how videogames work and even if it had a lore explanation, I'd assume it just means the Constant's globe spins way faster than Earth. That last argument about Maxwell and the throne is really compelling though
She actually ages incredibly quickly outside of the constant, my theory is that she ages so quickly because she has reversed her age so much that the universe itself is trying to kill her for living too long
It is implied that wanda made a deal with the shadows, but did not hold up her side of the deal (we dont know what, but in exchange for what she was supposed to do, she got time travel). I think that aging extremely fast was an effect afflicted to her by the shadows, hence why whenever she gets younger or gets older, she gets covered in shadow for a short time.
Alright, so that made me think a little. First of all, according to the wiki, Metheus is a woman's name, probably a queen, but it's fun to think the ancient people confused themselves and thought Maxwell was a woman and named him the queen. Second, I like to think that the rock lobsters are from a similar species, as according to the murals, the ancients shells were made of thulecite, or other thing yellow but the patters really look like the thulecite patterns you see in it, then the rock lobsters would be a way primitive species, similar how an ape is similar to humans yet not quite as smart or advanced. My principal point here is, I don't think the ancient rulers are Maxwell and Charlie, but instead they are the ones that "infected" their minds with the shadows, as obviously shown in a new reign short, Charlie isn't alone as she was "infected" by the shadows giving her the knowledgement Cyclum once had, and the same for Maxwell, Metheus the ancient ruler which couldn't to nothing but feel guilt and misery, just like Maxwell felt while in the throne. It should also be noted that I think Cyclum wasn't just another ruler, if we keep with my logic, Cyclum knew about the moon, the ancient archives and how to use the tragic torch, and gave all this knowledgment to Charlie, as shown in the Forgotten Knowledge trailer, Charlie already knew how the archives worked and had plans for it as shown in the lastest Return Of Them short Eye of the Storm.
The constant's timeflow has been known to be weird for a long time, wagstaff even mentions it every day when dusk hits, if anything Wanda tells us exactly how weird it is. I dont think that is enough to say that Maxwell was the Ancient King HOWEVER, what if rather than Maxwell being the King himself, what if he puppetered him? I doubt the ancients would just accept a human into their society, so what if Maxwell gave some of his powers to the Ancient King and therefor have indirect control over the civilization? Its also very likely the Ancient Civilization (as in, the more advanced version of it) already existed, evidenced by the Ancient archives, and how Maxwell didnt know everything from the ancient civilization (He used spare parts from the fountains of knowledge to create the bishops, as evidenced by his quote regarding the later) and Maxwell just played a big roll in its downfall. Also, Klei saying no one sat in the Nightmare Throne doesnt necesarily that the throne the ancient king used would count as the nightmare throne even if it later became the nightmare. They could also mean no other human sat on it. Overall, even when I dont think this theory to be right, it is an interesting idea, and its purpose of making people come up with their own is certainly working as intended, atleast with me
I think Charlie was corrupted upon entering the constant by the shadows, given the fact Maxwell hasn't seen the older runes in the archive. I think the "phantom Maxwell" is just a projection.
A really good and solid theory. The only part that could need a tiny bit of clarification is when you say that "Wanda is affected by the rapid aging of the constant because of the peculiar way she entered it" eventhought she was actually suffering from rapid aging even before this event, as shown in her character trailer. I would personally think that the aging is due to the pact she made for the knowledge to make her watches. Anyway, can't wait for the follow up to this video !
well yes, she is implied to make a deal with the shadows, I believe that she got time travel from the deal, but she did not hold up her side (hence shadows hunting her down like she is in a dream manhunt). I also think wanda ageing so fast is a result of her not holding up her side of the deal, so the shadows inflicted this effect on her (she gets covered by shadow for a short time while ageing/becoming younger. She also ages faster before getting sucked into the constants timestream. I thing that when the shadows made her age faster, she used some of her time travel knowledge to create the ageless watch, so she could counteract the rapid ageing.
I agree that the flow of time is different in the Constant with the Wagstaff DS quote for dusk "A conspicuously rapid sunset! Time must flow strangely here."
I dont mean to make fun of James or anything, but there are quite a few loose ends to this theory: Maxwell claims that the ancients were already dead when he was drawn into the Constant. He also claims that he didnt know that the Ancient Archives even existed let alone the Ancients even worshipped the moon. The Ancient Fuelweaver is said to be the king, Metheus. Wouldn't Charlie, Cyclum, queen of the constant be using moon energy as her primary source of power? Its depicted in the murals that Cyclum was using their torch with moon energy to ward off the shadows. Yet Charlie is really only seen using shadow magic with the fuel. And even when Charlie makes the torch, the Gestalts that are used in it are unwilling and Charlie seems to use it as more of a tool. Not only that, but the Moon seems to be an enemy to Charlie, judging by how determined she looks when she sees what it truly is through the torch. Theres also a couple other things like: "Metheus is here" from the eye of the storm trailer and Metheus being described as female (Dont know where I heard that.) I wholly agree on the naming of the "King" and "Queen" of the ancients, but Metheus seems to be more likely the Moon as they are "Returning" and "Metheus is here". Lots of things still need to be figured out.
That's an interesting theory but how would Shadow Atrium and, more importantly, Ancient Fuelweaver make sense? It is basically confirmed that Fuelweaver is the Ancient King and Shadow Atrium is his entrapped mind.
i think this actually makes quite a bit of sense prometheus and epimetheus as names was kinda the worst part so glad you changed those up in your theory
Those are great theories, as you can also support Charlie's backstory due to the fact of height, monster-like, and in some trailers and scenes there she is holding a torch of which seems to be nightmarish and corrupted. Also for the taking of survivors part it may have to do with Maxwell's desperation in trying to find someone to help him escape or get people free. Yet why those specific people were chosen is a question that can probably be answered as "those who were troubled". More or so is that they had life problems as well and Maxwell felt they could help him because of a slight relation is his problem being born from piles of frustration(like Wigfrid), burnout/curiosity(Wilson and Warly), unlucky(like Wes), mistreated(Webber), or chased(Willow and Wanda) or etc.
Wait, this makes perfect sense!! Literally everything in this world is affected by the weird time! The fast progression of rot, the degradation of clothing and tools, the traps that change the seasons, and even the failed survivors bodies. Time doesn’t just flow too fast the fabric of time is warped to hell.
Well personally for me if I was pretty much stuck in a chair for hundreds and thousands of years and could never die or leave it, but I could still do some form of travel and bring others to the world that I am in. In the beginning I might bring the smartest and brightest to help me out of the situation that I am in, or if I lost most of my emotions/sanity I would bring in the most fitting candidates to watch them suffer as they try to survive but after they actually start making progress I'd begin to doubt my actions and begin to watch them often, slowly seeing my flaws again and slowly regaining my humanity which would ultimately piss me off and make me depressed, and frantically try and bargain my way out of it so I wouldn't have to go though the pain of being 100% aware of everything, and when they wouldn't take my bargain, I would lash out and make sure they die as a last ditch effort to keep my self in the insanity ive grown comfortable in, but when that fails, id just give up and hope for death.
wait wasnt there a wannona quote for challie "how much time has passed?" also in DS you see that the first time you free maxwell he dusts away,same for his old bones,if the chair is keeping him alive then that could explain why he dies like that
I do agree with the fact that in the constant that time moves different is the fact when you light a tree with a torch it instantly catches fire when in reality it would take some time to set a full grown tree on fire
So,by the time standards, three endings could happen:1. They all escape the constant and return to the real world in their own separate timelines living their boring lives and act like nothing happened. 2.they return to the same timeline together but they’re so far into the future that nothing is recognizable, which would leave Walter, Wendy and Webber as orphans with their parents being long dead or 3.they forever get stuck in the constant and die of old age,leaving everything behind as a distant memory.
40,000 years is also plenty long enough for myths to corrupt/evolve over time, and for, perhaps, any remaining ancients or still semi-normal terrorbeaks to forget precisely what Maxwell and Charlie looked like, and subsequently depict them as something more familiar- a more lobster-y interpretation or they could have totally just dressed up as land lobsters and everyday ancients who didn't see them in person much assumed it was real
I see a problem in this theory: according to his replics, maxwell does not know about lunar part of ruins, and also says nothing about ruling the achients. Also, didn't Metheus turned into an achient fuelweawer? If yes, then how Metheus and Maxwell can be one person? And in fifth world of adventure mode Maxwell looks like shripm only because shadows took his life energy (or something like that) to create new and new worlds to not let Wilson reach nightmare throne. (Sorry for bad english, if it is bad)
I think that Fuelweaver is just a guardian of the portal created by Metgeus. There are glyphs of King creating a skeleton-like creature with similar Fuelweaver scull
5 months later we still don't know. But I want to say, you were right about the Wanda time, because in the new update one of the facts in the loading screen was that the time in the constant moves different from the normal world.
The timeline theory makes a lot of sense - after all, when you release Maxwell from the shadow throne in Don't Starve, he ages rapidly before dying. If he had only been in the constant for a decade, why would that happen?
Obviously I don't think you could've known this would've been in the game, but a loading screen tip outright states that time in the constant does its own thing. Sometimes it moves forward rapidly compared to our time, and sometimes it goes slower than our time.
A simpler example for why Maxwell and Charlie are represented as lobster people is that's how art often always represents deities. Both Chinese and Japanese art depicts Jesus in the way you'd expect, as a Chinese and Japanese person appropriate for the era. Same Etthiopia and so on.
In the Wanda video made by Klei you can see that she's affected by the timeflow of the constant even in the real world, this could mean that she achieved inmortality by doing things that tied her biological aging to the time in the constant, making her inmortal but aging quickly in the real world
this would be rather an interesting twist (the time part, i mean) because it would mean that if they ever find a way out, they'll basically be where they left time-wise. even if it takes hundreds of years, since time would flow so much more significantly in the constant than out of it.
The weird timeflow in the Constant would also explain why so many of the survivors co-exist despite implicitly coming from different points in history.
Our lord and savior james bucket, even the (real) origin story for Wagstaff, has arrived. When do you think you can deliver the next magnificent lore video?
Can't wait for part 3 in 3 years Don't think James Bucket is lazy, he just works on constant time... and by that calculation, this is actually the fastest channel on youtube. Seriously though, can't wait for part 3 :)
One of the loading screen tips says something along the lines of “Time seems to move forward and backwards as it pleases” which means anything could have happened at any time and it could still make sense
But maxwell created pretty much everything in the constant, his dialogue in checkmate goes something like “when I came here there wasn’t much to be seen, just dust, and THEM” that would imply that he created literally everything in the constant, excluding THEM
Hey real quick I want to add this little bit about the fuelweaver and how Maxwell may not recognize the empire he built. 1. The Fuelweaver says "Metheus..." as it shuts down the portal (really quick wiki check). The Fuelweaver may not be Maxwell at all but instead have created it. Then as the fall of the empire began, the Fuelweaver may have been destroyed as everything corrupted. Only recently was Charlie able to reforge the Fuelweaver with the shadow bosses but the memory of What had happened remained. It's ultimately trying to stop what had happened before and curses it's creator. 2. Given that Maxwell could've been on throne for as long as James is saying, he may have forgotten about it. It's a ridiculous claim to make but it makes sense. The human brain can only remember soo much before it's overwritten and given the Kings mournful state at the end of the murals, maybe Maxwell just wanted to forget. Side notes: it makes sense that the Constant has a faster timeline based on both the fast growing of crops, plants and seasons. On top of that, Wagstaff has a quote about the faster timeline as well. So it does have some sense to it.
my theory is that when wanda time travels in the real world, she teleports to a random point in time in the constant and immediatly goes to the time she wanted in the real world, essentially using the constant as a stepping stone. she can't get out of the constant this way, as when she time travels she goes to the real world for a singular moment then back to the constant. the reason i think so is that wierdly enough, when she breaks the fabric of time and space, diffrent times of the contant show up, although she was hopping around the earth timeline - which seems to be seperated from the constant timeline.
That's wonderful! I thought that's funny at first but now i'm a bit convinced. But if Maxwell matches Metheus, who's inside the shadow weaver? the shadows weaver sometimes would call Metheus when players have a fight with him.
I mean we kinda already had the point of time flowing weirdly here from our lord and savior Swagstaff. (Klei, please, pleeeease add him to multiplayer). Also, why is wanda's name in the title when she is only in about 10 seconds of the video? Love the video, keep on truckin and save those trees
Somebody get MatPat into this lore, we need more people on this (seriously though, DS’ lore is amazingly well-crafted and interesting, someone get the Theorist onto the game)
@@MakusinMeringue nah i say it died when he actually does lore based theories. Plus i feel like this would be another Hollow Knight situation where the fans of the game jump on the theory before anything else can even happen
i wanna point out that fuelweaver says "metheus" when theyre turning off the gateway, charlie already has a split personality going on so maybe part of her mind is trapped in the fuel itself other than that regarding the differences between their differences as crab people and humans, theyre the only ones with yellow-ish heads and distinct clothing, who says they coulndt have just worn helmets to please the lobpeople, the staffbearing statues in the ruins have human faces and resemble maxwell aswell
The don’t starve timeline is really weird and the original don’t starve story doesn’t line up well with the ancients of the dst lore. The theory that time runs differently in the constant is probably true because even Maxwell mentions that it is hard for him to keep track of what day or time it is in the real world. Also although Charlie and Maxwell could be the king and queen of the ancients, they do not have the same abilities as cyclum and metheus. They both use nightmare fuel and even Charlie herself is the actual monster that kills you in the dark instead of being the light bringer, although she is able to use the tragic torch. Most likely they resemble the queen and king since they had almost the same fates with them. Charlie got corrupted and Maxwell was tied up in the throne because they played with nightmare fuel. Also about Maxwells formation in adventure mode, he actually becomes more and more crippled and twisted just to show how weak he actually is. Since don’t starve has this chess theme, Maxwell is supposed to represent the king, who controls everything. But the closer you get to him, the more you realize that the king himself can do mostly nothing and needs his bishops, nights and rooks to help him defeat the enemy. Also Charlie, being one of the strongest monsters, represents the queen who by herself is pretty powerful. Also even Maxwell and Charlie, like metheus and cyclum, are just the pawns of THEM who apparently are the darkness and the light itself. Again representing the two colors of the chess pieces. And Maxwell and the survivors are the pawns of the light (moon) and Charlie and the nightmare creatures are the pawns of the darkness (THEM probably). But again, I might be wrong and probably am, so the only thing we can do is just wait for klei to give us more content...
A few things I wanted to say: First of all we knew about the time being different in the constant from one of wagstaff's quotes, along with a quote from maxwell on the nightmare throne at the end of adventure mode he says something along the lines of "how long has it been out there, time moves differently here" though wanda does wrap all of this evidence up and give us some numbers to go along with it. Second while the maxwell being the ancient king theory is cool and has some evidence another one of maxwell's quotes from talking to him on the nightmare throne causes him to say "when I first got here there was nothing but dust, the void, and them." This proves that the ancient civilisation wasn't there when maxwell got there, though there is a chance he built it after and became their king, but he might have split up with charlie by this point. Also the whole lobster transformation thing is a little farfetched, sure maxwell can change height, and proportions but nothing quite as severe as turning into a lobster. The final thing that disproves this theory is the fact that we can infer that the nightmare creatures are the ancients post nightmare fuel, and maxwell summons shadow creatures before he is transported to the constant, meaning that the ancients have already undergone their nightmare transformation so maxwell couldn't have been the king. EDIT: Another thing I realized is that the ancient fuelweaver is most likely the king or queen of the ancients and maxwell or charlie obviously couldn't be the ancient fuelweaver, though it isn't 100% confirmed the ancient fuelweaver truly is one of the two rulers, just highly likely. Hope you enjoyed my thoughts and sorry for the essay.
The time difference must be correct, because in the final chapter of don't starve, maxwell has no idea what year it is outside of the constant and asks the player
I don’t think Maxwell and Charlie are the king and queen because they have no knowledge of the ancient cities unless it’s like a history repeats itself type thing
Theirs a quote i very coincidently found imidently after watching this it was a loding screen tip saying somthing like "time moves diferent in the constant instead of a slow monotinous tiching forward seconds and eternitys move in a do si do" i dont remember the rest but the speed up timescale you mentioned is practicly confirmed here
Theory: The nightmare fissures are energy leaking from the ground, I believe the Thorne is at the core of the constant’s “earth” and the closer you get the more powerful the shadows are
in the murals it is shown also how cyclum is abandoned because she didn't follow the shadow fuel manipulation and still wanted the tradition of the moon, wich doesn't make sense cuz she is the ruler of the shadows and tries to fight the moon (Alter), but it is a really good theory still, wouldn't be surprised if this is the case
This time theory makes even more sense when you look at the unimplemented Charlie comments towards Winona; Winona - examining a fire pit when it is out: "My sister was afraid of the dark." Charlie: "How much time has passed for you?"
An interesting theory, but there are a couple fatal flaws: First, if Maxwell really was the king of the Ancients, surely he'd know of the Ancient Archive? Second, we see him studying the shadow creatures, which are the transformed Ancients, before he gets pulled into the Constant.
Another theory for why the murals look so different from Maxwell and Charlie, it could have been artistic expression from the ancient civilization. Perhaps the ancients portrayed Maxwell and Charlie as one of their kind to express that the newcomers were people-which, to them, “people” would likely have to entail shrimphood. Just a thought.
One theory I have is that the Constant relies on exchange, and bonding. I think when Maxwell began messing with the shadow creatures, things slowly began to shift off balance, until the shadows came and captured Charlie and Maxwell, finally getting what they wanted in return, souls for souls. Or souls for nightmare energy, I dunno. Another theory I have is bonding with physical life forms. If we look at the murals and the statues, we see that they’re full of shadow before slipping off their skin. I think shadow creatures need a host to survive and thrive long term, rather than just be shadows. Charlie bonded with the darkness, hence why she is so much more powerful than Maxwell, who simply tried to control it. Instead of manipulating the shadows, Charlie became one with them, and became a host, so she has much more control over the shadows.
And I think that would explain why Maxwell is bringing people INTO the Constant. Maxwell wants to escape, so bringing more and more people in may allow him to get out. And that would explain Wanda: she committed similar actions to Maxwell; manipulating time, and dark magic.
Also, wouldn't the ruins just not exist without Maxwell? Because doesn't he mention that when he entered the constant there was just him, a black void, and "them". Idk though, I could totally be wrong
another question for dont starve beginner:where does the book /codex from Maxwell come from? As Wanda entered by breaking spacetime, the constant doesnt seem to be a place that is difficult to enter but rather something that you can just go to when messing with reality. could it just be the nature of this realm to attract lost souls? At least from what ive seen of the lore so far, the ancients didnt seem to communicate by using books and if the theory is true, it would have to be far older than that. Also the shadows: If the codex utilizes the shadows and was there before any known people entered the constant, could that imply that these are the only real inhabitants of the constant? Furthermore, as they appear when sanity is low, could maxwell be the one who wrote it in the first place, after being lost for months?
I have a thought. Perhaps the reason originally to bring someone into the constant was for help. Clearly Wilson wasn't the first one kidnapped into the constant, but we do know that Maxwell attempted to kidnap that one guy with the little daughter who escaped because of Wes. Maybe he was the original one Maxwell wanted help from. But, after kidnapping Wes, he realized that even bringing someone to the concept wasn't going to save him, so instead, he decided to kidnap people because of boredom and loneliness. It would partially explain why he kidnapped Wendy, his niece, though I also believe the other reason he did that was because he could see her suffering without her sister, and so he took her to the constant to "give her Abigail back" using his god like power. In general, he wanted help initially, then through disapair was instead tempted to be god and make others suffer with him, until Wilson makes it through his trials of course. As for why Maxwell was on the throne to begin with? If we follow James's theory, perhaps, he and charlie at some point came to a disagreement, could have even been building for a while from them being stuck there to begin with and her holding him responsible, so they argue, she deems him a threat, and locks him down to the throne to prevent anymore of his nonsense. We've already seen that somehow, him effecting the world while on the throne had no effect on her, so whatever abilities or powers she has either cannot be challenged by his, or neither ones powers are just capable of interacting on the same plane of existence. Obviously, all just speculation strictly based on James's take of all of this. Thanks for the content man, it always brings a smile to my face. Get gud at making part twos to vids. Looking forward to when Klei finally gives us an end to this series, and perhaps a new future installment that isn't a gatcha mobile game. Be safe everyone, and cheers to Wanda!
but Wanda's aging was already weird before reaching the constant as we can see in the trailer, she needed to use her ageless watch after teleporting to the park. And why the others doesnt age fast? time is the dimension where you flow, if you are in that dimension and goes faster you go faster too
I think it's really great that you cover the lore, however, I disagree with you in several points (which doesn't mean much, since dst lore is so vague, everybody has their own version of it): 1. I think it was confirmed that wanda's timeline is broken and that that is the reason for her faster aging, which makes more sense considering the other characters don't age at all. 2. I disagree on you naming the staffbearer/ancient king metheus, since all evidence is pointing toward the fuelweaver being the ancient king and fw is the one who mentions metheus when closing the gateway as if they or he (depending on if there are one or two metheuses) came out of the gateway. Besides metheus is supposed to have returned already according to the axiom visus cinematic. 3. I disagree on maxwell being the ancient king, since the ancient king should know that the moon is a major power that seems to have originated from the portal. He seems to know that something is off with the moon but I think judging on his quotes for the dead celestial champion (I thought They were...) he didn't know that the moon was a major power. 4. I sort of agree on charly being related to the torchbearer or the character you call cyclum because she weilds the torch in the axiom visus cinematic, but don't think that she IS the torchbearer but I think that the second half of charly is the torchbearer who fell into shadow with the ancient ruins. dst lore is really vague though and you can only interpret it in your own way based on the evidence given, it is important though to share opinions on different subjects to see how the evidence could be interpreted. This comment wasn't meant as a personal attack and I do encourage you to continue sharing your views of the lore. The only reasonable way to interpret the lore in my opinion is to share theories and see how right they could be based on new evidence coming in with lore updates. So ty for making this video
Oooooh thank you for all these wonderful points, so let me try and defend as best as I could though sorry if it's not a satisfying explanation. 1. I believe the event that took place in Wanda's trailer is when her timeline got broken. Her timeline may have been fine before. While she does age throughout the video while still outside of the constant, if you watch closely you'll see how she ONLY ages when using her clocks. My theory is that her clocks are closely connected to the powers of the constant (given that their pieces are made of thulecite) and while she can travel between space in time she is also affected by constants time flow that rapidly ages her. 2. I highly doubt fuel weaver is the ancient king himself. He appears to be a guardian of the gate yes, but there isn't much connection between him and Metheus otherwise besides FW saying "metheus" when players escape/turns off gate without defeating him. It'd also is odd for him yells his own name in a third person form. 3. Could you elaborate more on how moon is a major power originated from the portal? Where is this shown. 4. I actually can stand behind this. I too thought of the possibility that Maxwell and Charlie may have been POSESSED by the ancient king and queen. The only reason I didn't go down this path is because I wasn't able to explain how Maxwell could have ruled the world AFTER the murals' event. It made more sense to say he was the one in the murals all along.
thank you for responding to my critisism, I think you might be right about wanda being related to the shadows since her examination for Gestalts is: "Would making a deal with another mysterious entity be pushing my luck?", I think that wanda made a deal with the shadow power to be able to make her clocks and manipulate time, what the other end of the deal was though, I don't know. I think you might be right about the breaking of wanda's timeline and timeflow being different in the constant, however I don't think it is as severe as you said in your video. I believe metheus is an entirely different person than the staffbearer, since the axiom visus trailer has the "metheus is here" easter egg and I think the fuelweaver is the staffbearer for several different reasons: 1. He seems to have some command over shadows 2. Some of his quotes point that way (for example: "My city... in tatters...", "You will fall as we did." and "How we've fallen") 3. The bonehelm gives you command over shadows and I'm a supporter of the theory that the ancients first became statues and then became terrorbeaks. I think that the lunar power came out of the gateway as well, because there is some white power that seems to have come out of the gateway depicted in the murals, also: charly seems to be absorbing lunar power from the gateway in the forge cinematic. I also think that the lunar power and shadow power are sort of opposites but related, based on them fighting, having opposite colours and one being most potent when insane, the other when sane. It feels like the shadow and lunar power are sort of playing a game of chess against each other (chess being one of the big themes of dst). Lastly, I do think charly is at least to some extend the torchbearer but I wouldn't call her posessed since they seem to have come to terms and molded into an entirely different personality in the "A New Reign" cinematic. When it comes to maxwell, I don't think he has any connection to the staffbearer.
The various survivors are all related to either Maxwell or Wagstaff. Wagstaff's confirmed relations are: WX-78, Wilson, Webber, and Winona. And i suspect Wanda is also related. Maxwell's relations are: Wolfgang, Wickerbottom, and Wendy. My assumptions are that everyone else was related to Maxwell. I think he may have met Wigfrid at a theater since they are both preformers. Warly probs cooked for him at least once. And Wes was an accident trying to kidnap someone unknown. I do also suspect that woodie may have been a lumber supplier for Wagstaff, and Walter probs got trapped by accident when Woodie got kidnaped.
i feel like i must point out 2 things first of them being that the throne depicted being sat on by the king does not resemble the shadow throne in the slightest meaning they could be entirely different things as well as maxwell being the first to sit on the throne and charlie taking the throne from wilson set up very different timeframes so unless time loops in on itself i dont really get this
![Return of Them: REVIEWED (yes, all of it) [Don't Starve Together]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/trbk8CuaCLs/mqdefault.jpg)
![Return of Them: REVIEWED (yes, all of it) [Don't Starve Together]](/img/tr.png)
![Don't Starve Together: Encore [Maxwell Animated Short]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/A35X4h590Ek/mqdefault.jpg)
Alsooooo
Metheus & Maxwell, Cyclum & Charlie. Both share the same first letter. CoInCiDeNcE?!?!?!
(for reals though, given how much Klei is obsessed with character names' first letter, this may be indeed intentional)
cOincEIdNEce
I THINK NOt
i like the video james have a good day
We must add this to the OrangeE DST iceberg
Top 1000 views
If you're correct about the different timeflow theory, then that means years in the constant is a negligible amount of time in the real world. Realistically, if Warly escapes even after decades, he'd probably be able to get back to his mother before she passes.
And that is a theory I can get behind.
Warly's mother deserves her Warly.
Yes indeed
Support this just because Warly’s maman should have her son back.
Hopefully that is the case for other survivors. How devastating would it be to return to your world to find out everything you knew and loved are all gone? (Except Willow. She burned that orphanage good)
@@JamesBucket lmao
"A conspicuously rapid sunset! Time must flow strangely here."
-Wagstaff
WOoAw!
I forgot
Wow, really
It is true, but the fact that he experiences the time as fast means that the timeflow is probably the same, but that it just gets day and night quicker. If the timeflow was different, the wagstaff wouldn’t be able to experience this.
@@matshonkoop4565 wagstaff technically isnt in the constant
Not to mention that Charlie holds the cyclum torch in the animation for the moonstorm
Thats exactly what i thought
holy shid
Never noticed that before
In the previous video james mentioned that the torch bearer got corrupted, a possible explanation to how charlie became the darkness itself (herself?)
Thats not really unique i hold the cyclum torch every night
My working theory is that Maxwell’s time on the throne gave him a part of the ancient king’s soul or personality, which is why he recognizes the ancient guardian. I also believe that the ancient queen is Charlie’s shadow half, which merged with her somehow. It would explain why she has authority over the shadowy spirits of the ancient civilization.
i've always assumed similar about charlie
Wouldn't that mean Wilson has a part of maxwell's soul and king's soul in him?
@@pawlaczek6039 That is a valid point. If my theory isn’t totally off base, I’m assuming that part of the king’s psyche became bound to Maxwell specifically because he was the first human on the throne and has been on it the longest.
@@pawlaczek6039 that would explain Wilsons gloves if he didn't already had them. (this is a joke :)
I think you’re right
Maxwell has forgotten a lot of things including most of the crafting recipes so it is believable that he has forgotten more
you would also forget stuff if you dint need to do them for 40000 YEARS
@@thedarkprelate true
is it just me…. or does wanda look like a young version of warlys grandma
@@meh-1600 I think it's just the white hair and the skin colour. Also I think she is his mother.
The ancient king had 4 arms, so it cant be Maxwell
James has a part 2 problem, but when it finally comes out, it's worth it
Yes indeed
I really should stop thinking about team rocket-
next year ;)
James has an any kind of video problem
We don't have to wait for the first part to come out because we don't know it's coming.
But doesn't Maxwell have a quote saying that the ancients were long gone before he got there
it might be a lie, kind of like "it was broken before i got here"
@@abboodio I looked it up when looking at the relics and broken clockworks he says "they were all dead when I got here"
While that could be the case it could also mean when he gets there in his "crippled" form
@@chintzygnat7665 well I mean he says that after you unlock him in adventure mode and the chacter you were playing in the world before lived in the same world
@@joeysora in Broken clockworks he calls dead piles factory faultings and broken clockworks are just random ones who fall down to those places
also you can read "CHARLIE" on the cyclum puzzle, this is just amazing
edit: and charlie is using the tragic torch
2:20 not only by wanda, but maxwell himself talks about it too the first time you meet him on the throne
"What year is it out there? Time moves differently here."
So yes, your timeflow theory is correct
Ok i Love the implications of this theory, but I want to share some of my thoughts on it and stuff you might have missed:
1. Wanda was already affected by her rapid aging before entering the constant, so it's probably not the right way to measure the constant's time compared to the normal world.
2. The Fuelweaver, which is presumably the king, refers to Metheus whenever you die/leave the fight, which would make him Cyclum, as he doesn't talk in third person.
3. And again, the Fuelweaver is a thing, so it doesn't really make much sense that Maxwell is both a survivor and a skeleton reanimated by the ancient king.
Take these with a ton of salt, as they are just things I remembered of the top of my head, and I don't know much about the lore either
I think there was a merger of entities, Maxwell took the place of the throne of metheus and Charlie merged with cyclum, it would make a lot of sense with their nature, fazendk so it's not them, but yours.
spiritual ancestors
Imo, at the start she only aged after teleporting, but started rapidly ageing after she broke the clock
as a different commenter with a name and pfp related to webber pointed out:
"A conspicuously rapid sunset! Time must flow strangely here."
-Wagstaff
I would say on the first one that wanda used shadow magic which may affect how her time works by using the constant's time flow instead of the real world
I take issue with points 2 and 3. We have very limited evidence to suggest that the fuelweaver is Metheus or Cyclum. Especially when you consider the fact that neither of them share the fuelweavers horn style. It seems much more likely that the fuelweaver is simply a guard
6:37 I think that Maxwell kidnapped other survivors using his puppets he can summon as a character so that they would free him from the throne. He makes it seem like the throne is important and gives great power. Example, his stages in adventure mode as the player gets closer and closer to it. Maxwell presents himself as a selfish and cruel person so that the other survivors actually want to steal the throne. They clearly believe that Maxwell isn’t great because upon examining a Maxwell Statue in single player as Wilson, he says “It really captures his personality.”
Maxwell, I believe, has a quote for the Ancient Statue that says something like, "They were all dead when I got here." Maxwell couldn't have been Metheus since all the people would have been dead by the time he arrived in the Constant from his Final Performance
I looked it up and you're right, though it's actually his (now removed) quote for the various Relics in the ruins (ex. the chair, table, and broken vases): "They were all dead when I got here."
@@danielh.2020 I wasn’t aware it was removed! Could Klei be rewriting lore?
This is actually very interesting. I never considered Maxwell having been in the Constant for more than the decade we know of, but it indeed makes his words while on the throne when you switch off the gramaphone ("I've been listening to that song for *an eternity*) make much more sense. Granted he could be just exaggerating, but his clothes are completely messed up, he just really looks... Ancient, not just old.
And the flow of time in the Constant is indeed pretty janky. A few survivors comment on how fast trees regrow, and how weird things are, also in the Cyclum puzzle we see Wilson throwing a log in the flames and it instantly catches on fire rather than having to burn first, meaning that fuel burning much quicker than in real life is canon, and not just a game mechanic made for simplicity.
I would imagine that Maxwell probably either had some accident while being a lobster, or became a lobster temporarily due to an accident, and probably was returned to his human form in a traumatic way of some sort, since he forgot so many things. Said accident could also explain why Charlie became what she is, maybe? Maxwell does say, on the Throne, that he's but a mere servant of the shadow entities.
One thing tho, I don't think the statue is much of a clue. Wilson does mention, upon examining it, that Maxwell "is much shorter in person", meaning that Maxwell probably made his statue taller and more handsome because he's a megalomaniac. Still, it's clear that he has the power to, if not alter his look, at least create a new one. Maybe Metheus was some form of shadow puppet he used to interact with his new fellow lobsters in order to not provoke hostile reactions from them?
Anyway, great theory! Just for the bit about nobody ever sitting on the Throne other than Maxwell, it really sounds possible. May your days be serene and your passion stay kindled, sir Bucket.
Maxwell also comments on cookies that he hasn't had a biscuit in eons
I just love the fact that Ancient Civilization, that was able in some way control Shadows is just called "lobsters"
Say what you want, the Benighted Lobsters sound like a pretty dope new kind of shadow creatures.
Quite interesting
I was thinking that maybe his Metheus form was just him using a mask and costume of sorts lol
"Sell me your soul"
nah, wortox gonna keep theses soul bc they look tasty
U gotta love how time theory can be trashed with Wilson beard
How so? He can grow a full beard nearly down to his feet within days(15 days, day 16's morning being when it's fully grown), when that should typically take years upon years. One of the longest beards in the world (I believe the longest by far, though the man is no longer alive) was quite literally 17 ft. long at the time of his death. This took him roughly 62 years. Genetics are definitely a factor, though. Wilson gives off the impression that he is not all that hairy (we don't know his origin country or anything so I'm basing this off pure speculation), so 15 days in the constant, each day being roughly 12 years... That's about 180 years. Just above triple the amount of years it took said man (Hans Langseth) to grow his beard, 62 years.
Assuming that Wilson isn't particularly blessed in the facial hair department, him growing a beard the length of his body (let's say he's 6 ft tall, as far as I know no one has a canon height - and basing it off the in-game sprites wouldn't work.) so his beard could roughly be 5 to 5'5" ft long. Compared to a 17 ft long beard in 62 years, Wilson taking roughly 3x that amount of time to grow a beard a bit under half as long seems "reasonable". This is purely speculation though. Another point entirely is in Wanda's short, even before entering the constant, she's shown to age faster because of her use of her watches. So it's entirely possible that her aging is so much faster in the constant (even without watch usage) because time moves faster, but maybe by a less extreme number. Let's say she ages double time. 1 "Constant" day is 6 "Real Life" years. Wanda ages 12 years because of the abuse of time (I use abuse similar to how one can abuse a substance). So then, 15-16 days in the constant becomes roughly 90 years. Which seems more realistic compared to our IRL example Hans, where Wilson tool an additional ~30 years to grow a beard a bit under half the length of his. (Specifically around 11.5 ft shorter, but again, this assumes Wilson isn't particularly blessed with facial hair genes.)
HOWEVER, this begs the question as to how characters like Woodie keep the same facial hair length indefinitely. Seeing how Wilson's beard growth is a special trait only he has, it may just be attributed to that - sped up beard growth to an inhuman amount isn't all that wacky compared to turning into a literal giant man-beaver. Nothing in the Constant is really "normal" though. On top of that, this is just a video game with some silly traits to it. And lore wise, this doesn't matter at all (probably).
I didn't do exact math or anything though, and bare minimum research. I've been awake for like 16 hours straight so I've probably goofed somewhere. Also I don't know why I felt the need to actually look into this. It's interesting, I guess, but also I should probably just go the hell to bed lmfao.
TL;DR - I'm a sleep deprived dumbass who half assed the maths and in theory Wilson's beard could prove that time in the Constant is accelerated by a very high amount. Or it's just weird beard magic considering it's only exclusive to him. The latter is more likely, though Constant time being faster by Some amount is still true(just probably not to the extreme level James presented).
This is all in good fun btw, I'm not trying to spite anyone or something. It's just a funny thought that I kinda went too deep into. I should sleep.
@@ghostlyanomaly You're a poet.
I guess Wilson was "transported" using a portal, properly placing him into the constant's timeline and Wanda just got misplaced so her time flow is still linked to the real world.
@@ghostlyanomaly man I love the don't starve community lmao
@@DaShoopdahoop lmao glad you liked my beard essay
James is filling in for Zeklo while he's gone.
What happened to Zeklo?
Nothin' much, just jaw surgery or something.
Ah Zeklo, haven’t heard that name in a while
@@OfficialThatOneGuy holy shit really? hope he's fine now
yoooo otog
Another interesting point about your time theory, it would also explain how characters can go from basic city people to something of a survivor themself in just a few years. All of the people in the constant seem to be from around the same time period, that being about the 1980s to 1990s. All the characters conically meet eachother in the constant mere years apart from eachother in our time, but when the new character meets the old character that was sucked into the constant like a year ago that character acts like he's been surviving for ages on his own and they know what they're doing, which would take the average person years to pickup skills like that. Basically what I'm saying is it would give a logical reason as to why every character is exponentially good at surviving as soon as they show up, its because even if they've only been there for a week for us they go through it like it's been eons. Just an interesting thing I thought I should point out.
I don't know about that Wanda argument... If time flows faster in the Constant, why she is the only thing to represent it? Doesn't she age faster just because she already played with time too much and it messed up how time passes for her and only her?
Yeah, sure, a day in the Constant is only 8min irl, but that's how videogames work and even if it had a lore explanation, I'd assume it just means the Constant's globe spins way faster than Earth.
That last argument about Maxwell and the throne is really compelling though
Also he says my suspicion was confirmed with the introduction of wanda
Maybe others are protected from Constant's time influence on them, and Wanda is the only one who broke her timeline
I have a question. Where does shipwrecked fit in the lore?
She actually ages incredibly quickly outside of the constant, my theory is that she ages so quickly because she has reversed her age so much that the universe itself is trying to kill her for living too long
It is implied that wanda made a deal with the shadows, but did not hold up her side of the deal (we dont know what, but in exchange for what she was supposed to do, she got time travel). I think that aging extremely fast was an effect afflicted to her by the shadows, hence why whenever she gets younger or gets older, she gets covered in shadow for a short time.
She only aged because of the clock teleportation
Man the universe must be really biased against Wanda then, letting all those Lobsters be immortal and all
It makes sense now that Charlie has the torch. Does that mean Maxwell rework could give the Ancient cane as an item to him? :0
Alright, so that made me think a little. First of all, according to the wiki, Metheus is a woman's name, probably a queen, but it's fun to think the ancient people confused themselves and thought Maxwell was a woman and named him the queen. Second, I like to think that the rock lobsters are from a similar species, as according to the murals, the ancients shells were made of thulecite, or other thing yellow but the patters really look like the thulecite patterns you see in it, then the rock lobsters would be a way primitive species, similar how an ape is similar to humans yet not quite as smart or advanced. My principal point here is, I don't think the ancient rulers are Maxwell and Charlie, but instead they are the ones that "infected" their minds with the shadows, as obviously shown in a new reign short, Charlie isn't alone as she was "infected" by the shadows giving her the knowledgement Cyclum once had, and the same for Maxwell, Metheus the ancient ruler which couldn't to nothing but feel guilt and misery, just like Maxwell felt while in the throne. It should also be noted that I think Cyclum wasn't just another ruler, if we keep with my logic, Cyclum knew about the moon, the ancient archives and how to use the tragic torch, and gave all this knowledgment to Charlie, as shown in the Forgotten Knowledge trailer, Charlie already knew how the archives worked and had plans for it as shown in the lastest Return Of Them short Eye of the Storm.
The constant's timeflow has been known to be weird for a long time, wagstaff even mentions it every day when dusk hits, if anything Wanda tells us exactly how weird it is. I dont think that is enough to say that Maxwell was the Ancient King
HOWEVER, what if rather than Maxwell being the King himself, what if he puppetered him?
I doubt the ancients would just accept a human into their society, so what if Maxwell gave some of his powers to the Ancient King and therefor have indirect control over the civilization?
Its also very likely the Ancient Civilization (as in, the more advanced version of it) already existed, evidenced by the Ancient archives, and how Maxwell didnt know everything from the ancient civilization (He used spare parts from the fountains of knowledge to create the bishops, as evidenced by his quote regarding the later) and Maxwell just played a big roll in its downfall. Also, Klei saying no one sat in the Nightmare Throne doesnt necesarily that the throne the ancient king used would count as the nightmare throne even if it later became the nightmare. They could also mean no other human sat on it.
Overall, even when I dont think this theory to be right, it is an interesting idea, and its purpose of making people come up with their own is certainly working as intended, atleast with me
...Hm.
That could work.
I think Charlie was corrupted upon entering the constant by the shadows, given the fact Maxwell hasn't seen the older runes in the archive. I think the "phantom Maxwell" is just a projection.
A really good and solid theory. The only part that could need a tiny bit of clarification is when you say that "Wanda is affected by the rapid aging of the constant because of the peculiar way she entered it" eventhought she was actually suffering from rapid aging even before this event, as shown in her character trailer. I would personally think that the aging is due to the pact she made for the knowledge to make her watches. Anyway, can't wait for the follow up to this video !
My theory: Wanda made a deal for more life or time, and when the shadows returned to take her she fled using their magic she was granted
well yes, she is implied to make a deal with the shadows, I believe that she got time travel from the deal, but she did not hold up her side (hence shadows hunting her down like she is in a dream manhunt). I also think wanda ageing so fast is a result of her not holding up her side of the deal, so the shadows inflicted this effect on her (she gets covered by shadow for a short time while ageing/becoming younger. She also ages faster before getting sucked into the constants timestream. I thing that when the shadows made her age faster, she used some of her time travel knowledge to create the ageless watch, so she could counteract the rapid ageing.
Further proof: after completing adventure mode, maxwell says “say, what year is it out there?” “Time moves different here.”
James we missed you so much please keep making videos.
I agree that the flow of time is different in the Constant with the Wagstaff DS quote for dusk "A conspicuously rapid sunset! Time must flow strangely here."
I dont mean to make fun of James or anything, but there are quite a few loose ends to this theory:
Maxwell claims that the ancients were already dead when he was drawn into the Constant. He also claims that he didnt know that the Ancient Archives even existed let alone the Ancients even worshipped the moon.
The Ancient Fuelweaver is said to be the king, Metheus.
Wouldn't Charlie, Cyclum, queen of the constant be using moon energy as her primary source of power? Its depicted in the murals that Cyclum was using their torch with moon energy to ward off the shadows. Yet Charlie is really only seen using shadow magic with the fuel. And even when Charlie makes the torch, the Gestalts that are used in it are unwilling and Charlie seems to use it as more of a tool. Not only that, but the Moon seems to be an enemy to Charlie, judging by how determined she looks when she sees what it truly is through the torch.
Theres also a couple other things like: "Metheus is here" from the eye of the storm trailer and Metheus being described as female (Dont know where I heard that.) I wholly agree on the naming of the "King" and "Queen" of the ancients, but Metheus seems to be more likely the Moon as they are "Returning" and "Metheus is here".
Lots of things still need to be figured out.
I like this theory! Even if it does turn out to be wrong I'd still enjoy it :)
I like the vignette foreground you used in the start of the video! Good editing!
That's an interesting theory but how would Shadow Atrium and, more importantly, Ancient Fuelweaver make sense? It is basically confirmed that Fuelweaver is the Ancient King and Shadow Atrium is his entrapped mind.
The Atrium is clearly a beating heart...
@@wendycarter7506 maybe his heart is in his heart
The first is supposed to be mind
2:30 time flowing weirdly in the constant was confirmed by Wagstaff wasn’t it?
i think this actually makes quite a bit of sense prometheus and epimetheus as names was kinda the worst part so glad you changed those up in your theory
personally, i think he’s kidnapping survivors so they can replace him, no matter the cost, he just wants out of that miserable world
Never watched your vid before but your voice sounds like soos from mystery falls and it’s surprisingly relaxing
Finally someone bringing up about the timeline in ds
Those are great theories, as you can also support Charlie's backstory due to the fact of height, monster-like, and in some trailers and scenes there she is holding a torch of which seems to be nightmarish and corrupted. Also for the taking of survivors part it may have to do with Maxwell's desperation in trying to find someone to help him escape or get people free. Yet why those specific people were chosen is a question that can probably be answered as "those who were troubled". More or so is that they had life problems as well and Maxwell felt they could help him because of a slight relation is his problem being born from piles of frustration(like Wigfrid), burnout/curiosity(Wilson and Warly), unlucky(like Wes), mistreated(Webber), or chased(Willow and Wanda) or etc.
Before watching:
Maxwell? Nah, that's just silly
After watching:
I don't know how I ever believed anything else
Wait, this makes perfect sense!! Literally everything in this world is affected by the weird time! The fast progression of rot, the degradation of clothing and tools, the traps that change the seasons, and even the failed survivors bodies. Time doesn’t just flow too fast the fabric of time is warped to hell.
Well personally for me if I was pretty much stuck in a chair for hundreds and thousands of years and could never die or leave it, but I could still do some form of travel and bring others to the world that I am in.
In the beginning I might bring the smartest and brightest to help me out of the situation that I am in, or if I lost most of my emotions/sanity I would bring in the most fitting candidates to watch them suffer as they try to survive but after they actually start making progress I'd begin to doubt my actions and begin to watch them often, slowly seeing my flaws again and slowly regaining my humanity which would ultimately piss me off and make me depressed, and frantically try and bargain my way out of it so I wouldn't have to go though the pain of being 100% aware of everything, and when they wouldn't take my bargain, I would lash out and make sure they die as a last ditch effort to keep my self in the insanity ive grown comfortable in, but when that fails, id just give up and hope for death.
wait wasnt there a wannona quote for challie "how much time has passed?"
also in DS you see that the first time you free maxwell he dusts away,same for his old bones,if the chair is keeping him alive then that could explain why he dies like that
I was not much into the lore back than and i tought max was anchiant because of that sean.
@@egesanl1 same,but if it was true that he is over 4000 years old
This could prove the theory
(Also I hope maxwell gets his rework soon)
@@thelawpayton6927 (we can hope)
@@egesanl1 tbh he will most likely get it last
it was charlie to winona, but yes, this refers to the fact that it's been about a decade for winona since charlie disappeared.
I do agree with the fact that in the constant that time moves different is the fact when you light a tree with a torch it instantly catches fire when in reality it would take some time to set a full grown tree on fire
But James, you missed a VERY important fact. The ancient king of shrimps is the ancient fuelweaver.
6:04 how could the fuel-weaver construct itself?
So,by the time standards, three endings could happen:1. They all escape the constant and return to the real world in their own separate timelines living their boring lives and act like nothing happened. 2.they return to the same timeline together but they’re so far into the future that nothing is recognizable, which would leave Walter, Wendy and Webber as orphans with their parents being long dead or 3.they forever get stuck in the constant and die of old age,leaving everything behind as a distant memory.
40,000 years is also plenty long enough for myths to corrupt/evolve over time, and for, perhaps, any remaining ancients or still semi-normal terrorbeaks to forget precisely what Maxwell and Charlie looked like, and subsequently depict them as something more familiar- a more lobster-y interpretation
or they could have totally just dressed up as land lobsters and everyday ancients who didn't see them in person much assumed it was real
this actually makes so much sense! good job james
all because james was bored and decided to do some arbitrary math on the ages of fictional people...
in all seriousness though, cool theory
I see a problem in this theory: according to his replics, maxwell does not know about lunar part of ruins, and also says nothing about ruling the achients. Also, didn't Metheus turned into an achient fuelweawer? If yes, then how Metheus and Maxwell can be one person?
And in fifth world of adventure mode Maxwell looks like shripm only because shadows took his life energy (or something like that) to create new and new worlds to not let Wilson reach nightmare throne.
(Sorry for bad english, if it is bad)
Wait, but isn't Metheus the Fuelweaver? How would that work?
I think that Fuelweaver is just a guardian of the portal created by Metgeus. There are glyphs of King creating a skeleton-like creature with similar Fuelweaver scull
5 months later we still don't know.
But I want to say, you were right about the Wanda time, because in the new update one of the facts in the loading screen was that the time in the constant moves different from the normal world.
Holy you're mastermind at this. How in the world you even thought of that?
The timeline theory makes a lot of sense - after all, when you release Maxwell from the shadow throne in Don't Starve, he ages rapidly before dying. If he had only been in the constant for a decade, why would that happen?
Obviously I don't think you could've known this would've been in the game, but a loading screen tip outright states that time in the constant does its own thing. Sometimes it moves forward rapidly compared to our time, and sometimes it goes slower than our time.
Clever little pancake. I award 10 points for production, and 100 for "dope playz against the brothas." Good lad for the use of knowledge!
A simpler example for why Maxwell and Charlie are represented as lobster people is that's how art often always represents deities. Both Chinese and Japanese art depicts Jesus in the way you'd expect, as a Chinese and Japanese person appropriate for the era. Same Etthiopia and so on.
Maxwell says "time flows different here" so maybe when he became the king its been decades for him but a few years for real world
Wow! I was hoping you would make this video since the release of the ''Return Of Them'' and am really glad its actually here!
In the Wanda video made by Klei you can see that she's affected by the timeflow of the constant even in the real world, this could mean that she achieved inmortality by doing things that tied her biological aging to the time in the constant, making her inmortal but aging quickly in the real world
this would be rather an interesting twist (the time part, i mean) because it would mean that if they ever find a way out, they'll basically be where they left time-wise. even if it takes hundreds of years, since time would flow so much more significantly in the constant than out of it.
height has been used to represent power many times before between the dont starve games, what im curious about is why wagstaff is so short
The weird timeflow in the Constant would also explain why so many of the survivors co-exist despite implicitly coming from different points in history.
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Isaac newton when some apple falls on his head
Our lord and savior james bucket, even the (real) origin story for Wagstaff, has arrived. When do you think you can deliver the next magnificent lore video?
Can't wait for part 3 in 3 years
Don't think James Bucket is lazy, he just works on constant time... and by that calculation, this is actually the fastest channel on youtube.
Seriously though, can't wait for part 3 :)
no no I am lazy, but thank you for trying to defend me
@@JamesBucket Man, I tried. Love the theory though
One of the loading screen tips says something along the lines of “Time seems to move forward and backwards as it pleases” which means anything could have happened at any time and it could still make sense
But maxwell created pretty much everything in the constant, his dialogue in checkmate goes something like “when I came here there wasn’t much to be seen, just dust, and THEM” that would imply that he created literally everything in the constant, excluding THEM
Hey real quick I want to add this little bit about the fuelweaver and how Maxwell may not recognize the empire he built.
1. The Fuelweaver says "Metheus..." as it shuts down the portal (really quick wiki check). The Fuelweaver may not be Maxwell at all but instead have created it. Then as the fall of the empire began, the Fuelweaver may have been destroyed as everything corrupted. Only recently was Charlie able to reforge the Fuelweaver with the shadow bosses but the memory of What had happened remained. It's ultimately trying to stop what had happened before and curses it's creator.
2. Given that Maxwell could've been on throne for as long as James is saying, he may have forgotten about it. It's a ridiculous claim to make but it makes sense. The human brain can only remember soo much before it's overwritten and given the Kings mournful state at the end of the murals, maybe Maxwell just wanted to forget.
Side notes: it makes sense that the Constant has a faster timeline based on both the fast growing of crops, plants and seasons. On top of that, Wagstaff has a quote about the faster timeline as well. So it does have some sense to it.
Maxwell has forgotten all the crafting recipes and in the metheus thing the king is doing something with the skeleton
I like to think that maxwell dragged the people into the constant to take his place, but immediately regrets it after
my theory is that when wanda time travels in the real world, she teleports to a random point in time in the constant and immediatly goes to the time she wanted in the real world, essentially using the constant as a stepping stone. she can't get out of the constant this way, as when she time travels she goes to the real world for a singular moment then back to the constant.
the reason i think so is that wierdly enough, when she breaks the fabric of time and space, diffrent times of the contant show up, although she was hopping around the earth timeline - which seems to be seperated from the constant timeline.
Maxwell has a brother and also does that mean Wendy is also a carb person and maxwell fights himself
That's wonderful! I thought that's funny at first but now i'm a bit convinced. But if Maxwell matches Metheus, who's inside the shadow weaver? the shadows weaver sometimes would call Metheus when players have a fight with him.
Some more evidence that it has just been a couple decades is that when maxwell is freed from the throne he doesn’t just die but he turn to dust
I haven’t seen enthusiastic Orange man in awhile! Very nice video.
That's actually a great theory.
I mean we kinda already had the point of time flowing weirdly here from our lord and savior Swagstaff. (Klei, please, pleeeease add him to multiplayer). Also, why is wanda's name in the title when she is only in about 10 seconds of the video?
Love the video, keep on truckin and save those trees
Somebody get MatPat into this lore, we need more people on this (seriously though, DS’ lore is amazingly well-crafted and interesting, someone get the Theorist onto the game)
So he can trash it? Eww, no.
All effort died past the Chrono Trigger episode that started it all.
@@MakusinMeringue nah i say it died when he actually does lore based theories.
Plus i feel like this would be another Hollow Knight situation where the fans of the game jump on the theory before anything else can even happen
@@MakusinMeringue what, we don't want any actual evidence here, BeCaUsE wE aRe IgNoRaNt FuCkS
i wanna point out that fuelweaver says "metheus" when theyre turning off the gateway, charlie already has a split personality going on so maybe part of her mind is trapped in the fuel itself
other than that regarding the differences between their differences as crab people and humans, theyre the only ones with yellow-ish heads and distinct clothing, who says they coulndt have just worn helmets to please the lobpeople, the staffbearing statues in the ruins have human faces and resemble maxwell aswell
The don’t starve timeline is really weird and the original don’t starve story doesn’t line up well with the ancients of the dst lore. The theory that time runs differently in the constant is probably true because even Maxwell mentions that it is hard for him to keep track of what day or time it is in the real world. Also although Charlie and Maxwell could be the king and queen of the ancients, they do not have the same abilities as cyclum and metheus. They both use nightmare fuel and even Charlie herself is the actual monster that kills you in the dark instead of being the light bringer, although she is able to use the tragic torch. Most likely they resemble the queen and king since they had almost the same fates with them. Charlie got corrupted and Maxwell was tied up in the throne because they played with nightmare fuel. Also about Maxwells formation in adventure mode, he actually becomes more and more crippled and twisted just to show how weak he actually is. Since don’t starve has this chess theme, Maxwell is supposed to represent the king, who controls everything. But the closer you get to him, the more you realize that the king himself can do mostly nothing and needs his bishops, nights and rooks to help him defeat the enemy. Also Charlie, being one of the strongest monsters, represents the queen who by herself is pretty powerful. Also even Maxwell and Charlie, like metheus and cyclum, are just the pawns of THEM who apparently are the darkness and the light itself. Again representing the two colors of the chess pieces. And Maxwell and the survivors are the pawns of the light (moon) and Charlie and the nightmare creatures are the pawns of the darkness (THEM probably). But again, I might be wrong and probably am, so the only thing we can do is just wait for klei to give us more content...
And in chess, once the queen is dead, the king is useless. I wonder if that will have any bearing on the future story of Don't Starve...
A few things I wanted to say: First of all we knew about the time being different in the constant from one of wagstaff's quotes, along with a quote from maxwell on the nightmare throne at the end of adventure mode he says something along the lines of "how long has it been out there, time moves differently here" though wanda does wrap all of this evidence up and give us some numbers to go along with it. Second while the maxwell being the ancient king theory is cool and has some evidence another one of maxwell's quotes from talking to him on the nightmare throne causes him to say "when I first got here there was nothing but dust, the void, and them." This proves that the ancient civilisation wasn't there when maxwell got there, though there is a chance he built it after and became their king, but he might have split up with charlie by this point. Also the whole lobster transformation thing is a little farfetched, sure maxwell can change height, and proportions but nothing quite as severe as turning into a lobster. The final thing that disproves this theory is the fact that we can infer that the nightmare creatures are the ancients post nightmare fuel, and maxwell summons shadow creatures before he is transported to the constant, meaning that the ancients have already undergone their nightmare transformation so maxwell couldn't have been the king.
EDIT: Another thing I realized is that the ancient fuelweaver is most likely the king or queen of the ancients and maxwell or charlie obviously couldn't be the ancient fuelweaver, though it isn't 100% confirmed the ancient fuelweaver truly is one of the two rulers, just highly likely.
Hope you enjoyed my thoughts and sorry for the essay.
The time difference must be correct, because in the final chapter of don't starve, maxwell has no idea what year it is outside of the constant and asks the player
I don’t think Maxwell and Charlie are the king and queen because they have no knowledge of the ancient cities unless it’s like a history repeats itself type thing
This is like a games theory video 75% wrong but 100% entertaining
Theirs a quote i very coincidently found imidently after watching this it was a loding screen tip saying somthing like "time moves diferent in the constant instead of a slow monotinous tiching forward seconds and eternitys move in a do si do" i dont remember the rest but the speed up timescale you mentioned is practicly confirmed here
Theory: The nightmare fissures are energy leaking from the ground, I believe the Thorne is at the core of the constant’s “earth” and the closer you get the more powerful the shadows are
in the murals it is shown also how cyclum is abandoned because she didn't follow the shadow fuel manipulation and still wanted the tradition of the moon, wich doesn't make sense cuz she is the ruler of the shadows and tries to fight the moon (Alter), but it is a really good theory still, wouldn't be surprised if this is the case
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How to check if you´re invincible
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How to retach arm
heh
This time theory makes even more sense when you look at the unimplemented Charlie comments towards Winona;
Winona - examining a fire pit when it is out: "My sister was afraid of the dark."
Charlie: "How much time has passed for you?"
An interesting theory, but there are a couple fatal flaws: First, if Maxwell really was the king of the Ancients, surely he'd know of the Ancient Archive? Second, we see him studying the shadow creatures, which are the transformed Ancients, before he gets pulled into the Constant.
Another theory for why the murals look so different from Maxwell and Charlie, it could have been artistic expression from the ancient civilization. Perhaps the ancients portrayed Maxwell and Charlie as one of their kind to express that the newcomers were people-which, to them, “people” would likely have to entail shrimphood. Just a thought.
One theory I have is that the Constant relies on exchange, and bonding. I think when Maxwell began messing with the shadow creatures, things slowly began to shift off balance, until the shadows came and captured Charlie and Maxwell, finally getting what they wanted in return, souls for souls. Or souls for nightmare energy, I dunno. Another theory I have is bonding with physical life forms. If we look at the murals and the statues, we see that they’re full of shadow before slipping off their skin. I think shadow creatures need a host to survive and thrive long term, rather than just be shadows. Charlie bonded with the darkness, hence why she is so much more powerful than Maxwell, who simply tried to control it. Instead of manipulating the shadows, Charlie became one with them, and became a host, so she has much more control over the shadows.
And I think that would explain why Maxwell is bringing people INTO the Constant. Maxwell wants to escape, so bringing more and more people in may allow him to get out. And that would explain Wanda: she committed similar actions to Maxwell; manipulating time, and dark magic.
Maxwell asks "what year is it out there time moves diffrently here" doing the ending of solo dont stave
Also, wouldn't the ruins just not exist without Maxwell? Because doesn't he mention that when he entered the constant there was just him, a black void, and "them". Idk though, I could totally be wrong
another question for dont starve beginner:where does the book /codex from Maxwell come from? As Wanda entered by breaking spacetime, the constant doesnt seem to be a place that is difficult to enter but rather something that you can just go to when messing with reality. could it just be the nature of this realm to attract lost souls? At least from what ive seen of the lore so far, the ancients didnt seem to communicate by using books and if the theory is true, it would have to be far older than that. Also the shadows: If the codex utilizes the shadows and was there before any known people entered the constant, could that imply that these are the only real inhabitants of the constant? Furthermore, as they appear when sanity is low, could maxwell be the one who wrote it in the first place, after being lost for months?
I have a thought. Perhaps the reason originally to bring someone into the constant was for help. Clearly Wilson wasn't the first one kidnapped into the constant, but we do know that Maxwell attempted to kidnap that one guy with the little daughter who escaped because of Wes. Maybe he was the original one Maxwell wanted help from. But, after kidnapping Wes, he realized that even bringing someone to the concept wasn't going to save him, so instead, he decided to kidnap people because of boredom and loneliness. It would partially explain why he kidnapped Wendy, his niece, though I also believe the other reason he did that was because he could see her suffering without her sister, and so he took her to the constant to "give her Abigail back" using his god like power. In general, he wanted help initially, then through disapair was instead tempted to be god and make others suffer with him, until Wilson makes it through his trials of course. As for why Maxwell was on the throne to begin with? If we follow James's theory, perhaps, he and charlie at some point came to a disagreement, could have even been building for a while from them being stuck there to begin with and her holding him responsible, so they argue, she deems him a threat, and locks him down to the throne to prevent anymore of his nonsense. We've already seen that somehow, him effecting the world while on the throne had no effect on her, so whatever abilities or powers she has either cannot be challenged by his, or neither ones powers are just capable of interacting on the same plane of existence.
Obviously, all just speculation strictly based on James's take of all of this. Thanks for the content man, it always brings a smile to my face. Get gud at making part twos to vids. Looking forward to when Klei finally gives us an end to this series, and perhaps a new future installment that isn't a gatcha mobile game. Be safe everyone, and cheers to Wanda!
but Wanda's aging was already weird before reaching the constant as we can see in the trailer, she needed to use her ageless watch after teleporting to the park. And why the others doesnt age fast? time is the dimension where you flow, if you are in that dimension and goes faster you go faster too
I think it's really great that you cover the lore, however, I disagree with you in several points (which doesn't mean much, since dst lore is so vague, everybody has their own version of it):
1. I think it was confirmed that wanda's timeline is broken and that that is the reason for her faster aging, which makes more sense considering the other characters don't age at all.
2. I disagree on you naming the staffbearer/ancient king metheus, since all evidence is pointing toward the fuelweaver being the ancient king and fw is the one who mentions metheus when closing the gateway as if they or he (depending on if there are one or two metheuses) came out of the gateway. Besides metheus is supposed to have returned already according to the axiom visus cinematic.
3. I disagree on maxwell being the ancient king, since the ancient king should know that the moon is a major power that seems to have originated from the portal. He seems to know that something is off with the moon but I think judging on his quotes for the dead celestial champion (I thought They were...) he didn't know that the moon was a major power.
4. I sort of agree on charly being related to the torchbearer or the character you call cyclum because she weilds the torch in the axiom visus cinematic, but don't think that she IS the torchbearer but I think that the second half of charly is the torchbearer who fell into shadow with the ancient ruins.
dst lore is really vague though and you can only interpret it in your own way based on the evidence given, it is important though to share opinions on different subjects to see how the evidence could be interpreted. This comment wasn't meant as a personal attack and I do encourage you to continue sharing your views of the lore. The only reasonable way to interpret the lore in my opinion is to share theories and see how right they could be based on new evidence coming in with lore updates. So ty for making this video
Oooooh thank you for all these wonderful points, so let me try and defend as best as I could though sorry if it's not a satisfying explanation.
1. I believe the event that took place in Wanda's trailer is when her timeline got broken. Her timeline may have been fine before. While she does age throughout the video while still outside of the constant, if you watch closely you'll see how she ONLY ages when using her clocks. My theory is that her clocks are closely connected to the powers of the constant (given that their pieces are made of thulecite) and while she can travel between space in time she is also affected by constants time flow that rapidly ages her.
2. I highly doubt fuel weaver is the ancient king himself. He appears to be a guardian of the gate yes, but there isn't much connection between him and Metheus otherwise besides FW saying "metheus" when players escape/turns off gate without defeating him. It'd also is odd for him yells his own name in a third person form.
3. Could you elaborate more on how moon is a major power originated from the portal? Where is this shown.
4. I actually can stand behind this. I too thought of the possibility that Maxwell and Charlie may have been POSESSED by the ancient king and queen. The only reason I didn't go down this path is because I wasn't able to explain how Maxwell could have ruled the world AFTER the murals' event. It made more sense to say he was the one in the murals all along.
thank you for responding to my critisism, I think you might be right about wanda being related to the shadows since her examination for Gestalts is: "Would making a deal with another mysterious entity be pushing my luck?", I think that wanda made a deal with the shadow power to be able to make her clocks and manipulate time, what the other end of the deal was though, I don't know. I think you might be right about the breaking of wanda's timeline and timeflow being different in the constant, however I don't think it is as severe as you said in your video.
I believe metheus is an entirely different person than the staffbearer, since the axiom visus trailer has the "metheus is here" easter egg and I think the fuelweaver is the staffbearer for several different reasons:
1. He seems to have some command over shadows
2. Some of his quotes point that way (for example: "My city... in tatters...", "You will fall as we did." and "How we've fallen")
3. The bonehelm gives you command over shadows and I'm a supporter of the theory that the ancients first became statues and then became terrorbeaks.
I think that the lunar power came out of the gateway as well, because there is some white power that seems to have come out of the gateway depicted in the murals, also: charly seems to be absorbing lunar power from the gateway in the forge cinematic. I also think that the lunar power and shadow power are sort of opposites but related, based on them fighting, having opposite colours and one being most potent when insane, the other when sane. It feels like the shadow and lunar power are sort of playing a game of chess against each other (chess being one of the big themes of dst). Lastly, I do think charly is at least to some extend the torchbearer but I wouldn't call her posessed since they seem to have come to terms and molded into an entirely different personality in the "A New Reign" cinematic. When it comes to maxwell, I don't think he has any connection to the staffbearer.
The various survivors are all related to either Maxwell or Wagstaff.
Wagstaff's confirmed relations are: WX-78, Wilson, Webber, and Winona. And i suspect Wanda is also related.
Maxwell's relations are: Wolfgang, Wickerbottom, and Wendy.
My assumptions are that everyone else was related to Maxwell. I think he may have met Wigfrid at a theater since they are both preformers. Warly probs cooked for him at least once. And Wes was an accident trying to kidnap someone unknown.
I do also suspect that woodie may have been a lumber supplier for Wagstaff, and Walter probs got trapped by accident when Woodie got kidnaped.
i feel like i must point out 2 things first of them being that the throne depicted being sat on by the king does not resemble the shadow throne in the slightest meaning they could be entirely different things as well as maxwell being the first to sit on the throne and charlie taking the throne from wilson set up very different timeframes so unless time loops in on itself i dont really get this