Breaking Out of the Prison of Self-Invention
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- čas přidán 6. 09. 2024
- Friends, we must break free of the prison of our own subjectivity, from which we have little choice but to hurl invective at one another. We have to get beyond the valorization of our own feelings and ideas and enter into a journey of exploration together. But this requires that we first recognize the objectivity of truth and moral values.
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“In the very act of articulating the objection to objective value, you implicitly affirm objective value” wow this is so true!
this is good and in the morning, i'll try to think of a way to restate this in simpler terms.
i found it in some other replies: "Indeed, if we do not see beyond our own petty likes and needs, we are trapped within those tiny prisons." So often I see that "... those little prisons of self invention either lead to narcissism or depression."
Not true, this weirdly implies that the only motive for objecting to something is having an objective reason for it.
@@pedrovillalobos6221 He didn't say that one is always explicitly aware of the underlying objective value. Btw, you yourself just made the same error by using the little word "true" (in its negated form).
@@musicarroll Eh? what does being aware of it factors in what I said?
And using the word "true" doesn't imply objective value because not all propositions are value judgments.
By the guidance of the Holy Spirit…breaking out of my subjective apprehensions and Desiring to grow in the wealth of Catholicism 🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾
I'm with you, brother. I was a prisoner of fear and the lessons of the Spirit are so easy to grasp but painful to put into practice. God bless you on your journey.
Isn't rethorics wonderful? when someone who has studied can sustain an argument by using the opponents argument itself? The Bishop rocks!!!
@@joea5626
Who says Comments Section is for dialoguing? You also think it is the place for harassing. Who are you? I mean your identity or Profile?
Always on point!
I've taught for eight years, and one of my favorite things to do is teach the difference between art and entertainment. Most of the argument I get from students is not on what art is but on there being no difference at all. But one of the differences that emerges is that of value.
Every single inhabitant of western civilization needs to hear this. God Bless you!
It's a good video, but it raises some other questions. I really like the Bishop, but let's not crown him with many crowns just yet :)
Subjective values and truths leave one inside an ivory tower, a vacuum where our thoughts and feelings echo endlessly to ourselves. To leave the ivory tower, much like how the man who left Plato's cave, indeed does allow us to abandon our shadowy, myopic subjectivity and see the outside world in which objective truth and understanding fully liberates us.
Wonderful video, Bishop Barron! I absolutely adore these bits of wisdom you upload every so often.
I liked your analogy of the problem of purely subjective values alot. Insightful - thanks for sharing
A MasterClass in ethics, morality and aesthetics in 10 min!! Magnificent! Bishop B. is THE MAN!!
“Suffocating subjectivism.” It is a prison wherein the inmates think they are free. Wonderful teaching, Bishop Barron. Thank you.
I agree subjectivism is suffocating. An overly rigid "objectivity" is suffocating as well. What allows for diverging perspectives without sliding into out and out subjectivity? What do you think? I don't know the answer.
"... the objective value....ought to awaken a subjective value response...", a gem of a thought from van Hildebrandt, perfectly said by the great Bishop!
Yes, the invention of the "psychology man" was the beginning of self-devouring egotism! Thank you, Bishop!
"The purpose of education is to get the student to like or dislike what s/he ought." that's the takeaway. 🧡💪
I think that statement is potentially very dangerous... To like or dislike what they ought to...
If the dialogue is just one way (teacher --} student) this is really a only a recipe for indoctrination.
@@chrisclarke4700 one of the most important things is to like thinking critically and dislike being indoctrinated.
Mortimer Adler identified as the one self-evident (contained in the meaning of the words themselves) moral principle that one should want what one needs (one's own good).
Yes, if through ignorance or ill will the teacher doesn't teach a foundation of what is good and how to build on the foundation then they fail to educate, but that doesn't change the purpose of education.
@jaffa 360 exactly. CRT?
As a music teacher of almost 30 years, I insist to my students that I am not trying shape their preferences, but simply leading them to understanding of a previously unknown (to them) masterwork, lest I be perceived as a salesperson rather than a teacher. Of course I hope that understanding will shape their preferences toward desiring to use the word sublime over pretty. As a Catholic deacon of just under 3 years, I pray and hope that I can lead the faithful to deeper understanding that leads one to a faith in which one sublimely encounters the One. And no hiding it, I am trying get people to buy into the Christian faith.
thank you for giving such useful meaning to "objectivity".
What a great and necesary reflection...prayers for this message gets through the subjectiveness of todays world...
The faculty to think objectively is *reason;* the emotional attitude behind reason is that of *humility.*
- ERIC FROMM, The Art of Loving
*To be objective, to use one's reason, is possible only if one has achieved an attitude of humility, if one has emerged from the dreams of omniscience and omnipotence which one has as a child.*
- ERIC FROMM, The Art of Loving
@@andreylebeuf1304
Thank you. His view on objectivity is wholesome. I do value his understanding of the necessity of *humility.* I perceive he must have been a humble personality.
This talk hits the nail on the head for me. We need to be taken into such discussion to look at the deeper meaning of our lives and the lives of those around us.
I just had this chat with my kids, they will be better served with Bishop Barron’s comments. Wof is such a gift to all of us.
All my atheist friend keeps repeating is “Whatever rocks your boat…”, which is the exact opposite of what Bishop Barron is saying in this video. “Whatever rocks your boat” is the hymn of modern relativism.
" Whatever rocks your boat " might rock it right over and tip you out into deep water where you cannot stand. The " rock " needed here is The Rock who is Jesus Christ himself.
@@barbarahrris4239 Very well said!
it is the dictatorship of relativism disquised as freedom
Agree so much, Bishop Barron. I see this in my culture, community, and friends/family. Good to know how to identify it and respond to it.
I enjoy watching such videos. Really reminds me that faith can (and should be) consistent with reason.
WOW. The clarity of Bp's words could have never been better. It's as if he put into words this profound idea I have been struggling to put together in my own words. All the best, Bishop from the Phils.!
Wow, that’s the best argument against relativism I’ve ever heard. 🤯 Thank you, Bishop Barron!
God bless any teacher attempting to educate the subjective prisoner. I pray for their patience and tolerance! Thank you Bishop Barron. Very much appreciated. Blessings to all!
Thank you so much Bishop Barron for speaking the truth and keeping your coolness. I appreciate your work(convictions) immensely 🙏🕊
Thanks Bishop Barron and God bless you and your work! I was recently reflecting on something similar to your talk with two of my children. I am a high school principal and I posed the question, "So if a student of mine feels and/or identifies as a graduate, then what should stop me from giving them a high school diploma even though the student hasn't completed the requirements for completing the diploma?" Blessings to everyone!
Truth is Truth. If it cannot be defined OUTSIDE of us, then it isn’t Truth. It is only interpretation.
Beautiful explanation of that “outside, 3rd dimension” - objectivity. The lack of recognition of this dimension is likely the root of society’s inability to find agreement.
Another beautiful point - our “subjective feelings are a reaction to objective reality”. Therefore, our feelings cannot be the truth, only a shadow of the truth. And the further we get away from the truth, the more distorted our shadow.
Thank you for being objective and caring Bishop Barron. GOD bless you.
The problem that Bishop Barron is overlooking is that objective values must be discerned and announced by either someone or some organizational entity and that very announcement is often tainted with subjectivism this is why all objective values must be recognized it is specified context in order to have true meaning
Objective values Arnot crepuscular entities but must always be placed into context in order to clothe them with meaning
Thanks Bishop Barron 🙏
Many a hour I've spent listening to Bishop Barron in front of bookcases
So basically these peoples claim is "It is absolutely true that there are no absolute truths"
Well... I cant see anything contradictory about that
Yes. Well said.
ha, great reply and that's another discussion. slinging about universals is nearly always untrue.
A variance between one's objective and subjective moral values, explained in plain words, so well.
'It’s not simply a question of valorizing or naming our own feelings, but rather our feelings are either appropriate or inappropriate to the objectivity of the value under consideration.'
Quite profound. It's much more difficult to pursue objective truth, beauty, and love in God than it is to 'make yourself like gods' and call the shots.
Brilliant!! Erudite and concise - it doesn't get better than that! Thank you, Bishop Barron!
I think those little prisons of self invention either lead to narcissism or depression.
Thank you, Bishop Barron!
Bang on, Bishop Barron! (That’s: you’ve hit the bull’s eye!) thank you for your clear thinking and teaching.
Amen! One does not need to reinvent them self, they need to FIND them self!
It brings to mind my days as a Day Care provider. I used to joke that my job was essentially to take the toddlers from "I'm all that matters," to Real People, who would see the Whole World, and not just their fistful of crayons. Indeed, if we do not see beyond our own petty likes and needs, we are trapped within tiny those tiny prisons.
Very important video! Thank You!!!
Searching for truth eventually brings peace……..👍💐💐💐💐
Thank you for your wise words, Bishop.
Brilliant talk, Bishop!
Who decides what the objective value of something is? Is it a consensus of subjective values? Those things from God are objective, but what about other things like Shakespeare and Dante? I believe in objective value, but how do we know what that value is for things that do not come from God? Why Shakespeare and not Marvel Comics? Who decides that? Who said?
These are really good questions. I wish the Bishop would do a video in which he tries to answer them. Maybe he has. I think what he might say is, if the work, action, or idea is in line with the transcendentals (the Good, the Beautiful, and the True) it's objectively good. The next question would be: How do we know if something is in line with the transcendentals? I think the Bishop might say, he have to discern it in light of revelation that comes from scripture and tradition. We still might not always agree but at least we'd be appealing to that higher "3rd party."
Exactly.
My thoughts as well. The bishop just throws a single philosophical theory at us (namely that universals like Good and Beautiful have real being) and expects us to swallow it all and to ignore years of unresolved debate in that area of philosophy
Amen, thank you.
Suffocating subjectivism. AMAZING ACCURACY.
Thanks for the great video!
My education is beyond me, for it is the One who dwells within me, that knows Its like, knows Its Love, knows Its Faith, knows Its grace, knows Its beauty, knows Its heart, know Its own Spirit, and I sometimes get to wake up and see it too. I know who I love because Love woke Love within me, when It saw Itself in another.
Trinitarian reference at the end there?
It's a matter of Persona Christi being reconnected to the rest of His body via the Spirit and that is only possible through Love. It's more like I know Him when I see Him, kind of relationship. ""But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."
Romans 8:9, KJV
"That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,"
Ephesians 3:17, KJV
"To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:"
Colossians 1:27, KJV
"Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord."
Colossians 3:16, KJV
"Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit."
1 John 4:13, KJV"
I think I just said too much... but it is a gift of the Spirit. Sort of along the lines: "it takes one to know one."
This is brilliant
Eye opening video
I think this explains well where Western society is at now and the agitation we see everywhere. A good follow up book is "How To Destroy Western Civilization" by Peter Kreeft.
It definitely describes why everyone just argues instead of having civilized discussions doesn’t it?
Brilliant as always 👍
Note for the viewer: the term "value" here is used in a different sense from how economics uses the term value.
Thank you Captain Obvious
Absolutely wonderful!
Notice how many people when giving their thoughts will actually say "I feel like..."
Yes! God bless you, father. This is needed.
'A war of feeling against feeling' - wow I see this everywhere!
Let us not make of the Absolute, relative, nor of the relative "absolute". Let's keep our commitments to others and use things the right way.
A brilliant discussion, Bishop Barron has the gift of making something potentially difficult easy to understand. It helps if you have read the first few pages of C.S. Lewis " Abolition of Man.
"O God, I could be bounded in a nutshell and count myself a king of infinite space, were it not that I have bad dreams."
I’m with the bishop as regards objective truths and objective morals, but he loses me in his discussion of objective aesthetics. The quote he uses from Aristotle necessarily pits beautiful elements in competition with each other. And it does so, ultimately, on pain of sin. It’s easy to feel what one ought to prefer between Shakespeare and the vicious doggerel Bishop Barron uses as an example, but what about a Bob Dylan concert versus a performance of Beethoven’s 5th Symphony? Which free ticket would His Excellency take if offered, and how would he justify the decision objectively? Now, it may be that there are certain aesthetic forms that tend to please more people than others, but that’s a question of profit value, not some metaphysical intrinsic value.
@@andreylebeuf1304 Maybe? I think it’s a bit much to label the Bishop as authoritarian, at least based on this video. Objective definitions of Truth and Goodness are, to my mind, necessary to the proper ordering of society. His Excellency wants an objective definition of Beauty in order to intellectually ground his proposal to evangelize using Beauty. I merely point out that I’ve found his efforts in this specific area lacking.
@@andreylebeuf1304 Yeah, I’ll grant that the Bishop’s arguments against so-called “wokeism” are little better than strawmen. Maybe His Excellency read too much into the protests against Junípero Serra. At the same time, it’s difficult for me to pigeonhole him as an ideologue. You can actually have a good discussion with him.
One of the problems, with this argument. Is that to often those in power. Will refuse the objective value of something. So that they can control the situation,or people around them. Then nothing has a true value. Pilot's what is truth statement. Is a good example. God Bless.
Yes James but Christ silence to the snarky question to Jesus was the shot heard around the world .
Thank you, Bishop Barron. Sadly, the culture is slipping into this subjective prison, and frankly, it frightens me. Your words need to be broadcast from every pulpit to all faiths.
This is such an important video. Thank you yet again, Bishop.
Bishop Barron, I don't think I can crown your video with all the superlatives offered by the other commenters, but I think it was a really good video. How do we avoid both a suffocating subjectivity and a stifling objectivity? How do we discern God's ordering of the beautiful so as to avoid wicked misappropriations of the concept of objective beauty? For example, Nazis or similarly minded people might claim a certain race is objectively more beautiful than another. When do claims of objective beauty become dangerous? Thanks for your work, you do incite great discussions and I learn a lot from your Word on Fire material!
Great video - the beginning is a bit like saying: "I know with absolute certainty that certainty doesn't exist".
As always, Superb and Timely. Yes, objectively!
Thank you bishop for always posting profound content and vee informative sermon.
Lionel Arnolds
Port Elizabeth
South Africa
Wow, I never thought of objectivity/subjectivity in this context! Thank you Bishop for teaching me something new.
Thank you so much for this wonderful talk. Self invention seems enticing at first glance but the pressure is too much to bear.
What profound thing can I say that will add to the discussion? Why have I not at least made a comment until now after immediately forming the opinion after watching the video that this is perhaps one of the most insightful sermons yet? I don't know. I just know that I'm grateful for this content. Though I don't wanna lump it together with other CZcams "content" by calling it that because this is actually of real substance contrary to virtually everything else. All that is vapor and noise, this is hyperreal.
I like as you say Bishop Barron, the purpose of education is to get the student to like and dislike what he ought. Let us seek what unites rather than staying in our small prisons... and together... ascend in love.
Love you Bishop.... as a retired college professor I know for certain we never would have have cause too assess you as "dumb"..... I wonder why simply minds have almost always personally attacked the object of their disagreement.
Thank you. Today you have given me hope!
Aren't you talking about the simple virtue of gratitude? Around 1975, I picked up a wonderful book of prophecies found in the lobby of an Assemblies of God church. One of its great insights was this: ingratitude is the mark of a reprobate. Natural beauty itself makes me want to take a moment and pray. It's easy to understand why Christ prayed so often in natural surroundings.
I really appreciate Bishop Baron and watch his videos often. However, I question whether there is such a thing as objective truth. The quote, from Jesus, that came to my mind (Matthew 9:13) was Jesus quoting Hosea 6:6: “I desire mercy not sacrifice.” Do Christians believe in objective truth, or do we believe in subjective (but ultimately good) truth? I’m wondering if God is the ultimate truth/good while he is also the ultimate judge of what is true/good. If so, then wouldn’t truth and goodness be subjective (with God being the subject)? And if that is the case would the tension we feel towards absolute truth/goodness come from us wishing we were the ultimate judge of truth and goodness (instead of God)?
Godbless you, your excellency, edifying video!
I agree with everything he says. The problem is that it's not always self-evident what the "objective value" is, particularly in matters of religion and morality. This is unfortunate, because maybe if it was more self-evident, there would be a lot less fighting and the world would be a better place.
Maybe we should start with the obvious and work up. Can we agree Shakespeare is better than Hip Hop lyrics?
@@rhwinner Sure we can. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a subjectivist. All I'm saying is wouldn't it be nice if some of the most interesting objective truths on which we base our lives were more self-evident? I mean truths like God exists, there is an afterlife, and the like. Then again, most objective truths are not self-evident and if that's the only criteria we use for accepting truth, we won't get very far.
I would say that as long as one orientates themselves toward the transcendant third, they will always be guided by objective values. It is not possible to know everything, though the desire to know the good, the true and the beautiful brings us closer to their realities. Our meaning, value and purpose are rightly found in them. You might be able to recognize that objective values are not the destination, but the compass pointing to true north. Without these objective values we are hopelessly lost adrift in a sea of subjectivism and self determination.
@@rhwinner No, that's exactly the point. Some people wouldn't agree with that (and others would point out that Tupac praised Shakespeare). And therefore, since people disagree, we need an objective criterion to appeal to... but for beauty/aesthetics, it doesn't seem there is one.
How does Bishop Barron not have 1 million followers ?!
I've got over 3 million on Facebook.
@@BishopBarron Awesome!!! Love you Bishop Barron! Thanks for the reply
For me, personally, I hit a road block due to trust. Where is this person going to take me? I’ve had professors, priests, and older people take me places psychologically that weren’t healthy places. Unfortunately, I still have those thoughts and memories in my mind today.
At least in my mind, thoughts, ideas and experiences don’t just leave or get purged. They are recalled, and replayed sometimes by a trigger, sometimes spontaneously or intentionally. I can honestly say I wish some memories didn’t exist in my mind. I try to be careful about who I allow to lead me, and try to predict where I’m going to be “dropped off.”
If there isn’t a sense of safety and comfort, I won’t go there. You can call it a prison, but I call it paradise.
I’ll leave Dante to you Bishop Barron. I still love ya though!
Wow, this is a tough topic to think about. As you were speaking about the waterfall story, I wasn’t sure which way I was convinced.
At first I thought about the fact that there are some things (movies, books, etc.) that I recognize aren’t objectively good but I enjoy them anyway. I thought about that longer and realized that there must be at least some aspects of those creations that are objectively good in order for me to really like them. Thank you for the food for thought.
Thank you ✨
For me, the life is very simple since I accepted the existance of two kinds of truth- objective and subjective. Objective truth is reality, and subjective is how do we see objective truth through our subjective lence. We all have our subjective perspective, therefore no one has the right to claim to know ultimate reality. Ultimate reality belongs onley to God, it should stay untached on the Tree of knowlege. We are coming closer to it when we open our heart and give all our subjectivity to God. Will and ultimate Truth belongs to Him, my choice is onley to accept it or not.
Now this is a great example of the New Evangelization at work! Cutting at the roots of modernist heresy often can open the minds of nonbelievers. It certainly did for me.
I wonder if my videos can be helpful to you. I’m publishing a weekly CZcams video on episodes from the life of Don Bosco, entitled ST JOHN BOSCO by JOE ZAMMIT. In this series I’m narrating events and miracles from the splendid life of Don Bosco. St John Bosco used to perform a miracle almost every day, through the intercession of Mary Help of Christians. From the lives of saints we can learn how to love God more and draw closer to him. Thank you.
7:18
If you want to skip to the point.
The buildup is beautiful, though.
Bishop, I enjoyed your comments, and C.S. Lewis is one of my favorite authors! However, I do want to point out that there are many forms of beautiful art that were not at first appreciated by the church, and that many communities have only seen beauty in their own rituals, their own lifestyles. I think originally the concept of relativism was to help people be tolerant of other ways of worship, ritual, and art - so that they could eventually come to appreciate them. I agree it's gone too far though; now it's not even our communities we need to break out of, but only our own personal opinions. I do sometimes fear that everyone will eventually be isolated in a personal bubble of one. How lonely, and how defensive!
Have you noticed that a new phrase that's taken over is "I feel like...".And when I hear this coming from someone I think to myself-"I don't care what you feel like,but what do you THINK!"
Thanks again Bishop Barron and God bless you and your work! As I finished typing my other comment the thought occurred to me regarding your recent discussion with Alex O'Connor. There was a part in that conversation around the topic of suffering and he used the term 'absurd'. If we can't call something 'sublime' then how can we call something 'absurd'? Blessings to everyone!
I fall in love with every new taste of truth that I learn from you Bishop!! God bless you 🙏🏼🍺
Well said.
Thank you.
Right on.
Hypersubjectivism is an epistemological theory to which reality itself objects. Assessing a person as dumb implies a criterion of its opposite (bright ) that lives outside of the subject and against which it is possible to make the claim of dumbness as being true. As a speech act, assessments/interpretations are neither true nor false. They can only be grounded or ungrounded: grounded or ungrounded on verifiable and observable reality or on principles that transcend observable reality. The former is the basis for describing what is, the latter forms the basis for what ought to be. This forms the junction point where opens up the debate about the grounds upon which what ought to be is determined.
Levis Shalom
but let us not confuse Kierkegaards Subjectivism with Berkleys Solipsism .
The issue can be that one person will try to over ride the objective value. One race is better than another. And if in a social climate to enforce that view point. Than people will dismiss all objective values of that person or group. Done over a long period of time. People will stop caring about the values in question.
God (1st) AND Country !
Wow well said
I completely agree with your point here Father, but how does one learn to love such objectivism? Personally I rarely see beauty in the world. I don’t enjoy movies or music or art or very much of anything. And I think I’m not the only one with such views, I’m sure many people have a similar lens through which they view life. I pray and go to church regularly (one of the few things where I do find beauty) if that helps. Any advice is appreciated. Thank you!
Such a great video ! Thanks a lot
Hello Bishop
I am catholic since I was born but right now I am in a middle of faith crisis, for all the bad things made in the name of the Catholic Church. I am looking the Jewish religion as a good option
Thank-you! Please keep going
Thank you Bishop. Hyper subjectivism leads to pride, envy. Cain valued his offering greater nd dismissed what God valued. If you lock urself inside you r actually under the grip of satan.
Crazy good. ;)