Good video. Couple of points. There is a connection from Merseyrail to the freight line to edge at Bootle. It was used for many years for a service to London from southport. Later replaced by a DMU to lime St. This link is occasionally used for rail tours & engineering trains. As for the North mersey line. The infrastructure is still in place though very overgrown. Indeed the bridge over Linacre Rd has recently been refurbished. This line has also regularly been suggested for reopening though never done. Indeed it was proposed to become part of the North East outer loop of Merseyrail, though those plans were cancelled
@@DIEMLtdTV I was a signalman at Bootle Junction. I travel to Liverpool daily. The points are still there from the Alexander Dock line to Aintree line.
The "Wirral country park" is much used by walkers, cyclists and horses. As a rail line, It didn't reach any towns other than Neston and Heswall, which still have stations, and there are other blockages than the ones you mention (for example at the northern end).
Love the graphics. Like everyone else we'd like to see extensions to Wrexham, Wigan, Warrington, Preston..and the Airport. Outside of this I want to see the tunnels brought in to use in town. Maybe a new tram system that can integrate with some new stations in town. The outer loop would be a good way to introduce trams on a crosscity line.
Thank you, I only use the draw function on Powerpoint and some patience! Sadly new lines are all about footfall and and with city-centric organisation such as Merseytravel, I can see them concentrating on the lines they have.
I used to send freight trains from Bootle Junction to Aintree. I once signalled the Royal Train to the Grand National.It had the late Queen Mother on board. It was a beautiful pullman set with a class 56 or 47 locomotive. That was 1988.
I think a second link to Southport for the Northern Line could prove invaluable so Ormskirk to Southport should be reinstated. It could also be used as a relief line in cases of track renewal. For me a Lime Street to Bootle line also makes sense as it would provide a much faster service. This could also make good use of a reopened Bootle to Aintree/ Ormskirk/ Southport/Preston branch line rather than changing and shuttling these services would obviously enhance the existing network. Obviously we are looking at laying extra 3rd rail track but the Bootle branch to Lime Street could be done with relative safety as it’s unlikely to attract trespassers. The Bootle to Aintree branch could be run on battery power. I’m not sure how much of Northern’s Ormskirk to Preston could be re-doubled but the route would require it as services would be likely to run every 15 minutes, this would cause problems for trains passing and extend waiting times at loop line stations. Certainly a fast service from Bootle to Lime Street direct must be a no brainer. The Aintree branch avoids changing and shuttling and running through to Southport and Preston also makes total sense. You could also (theoretically) run a branchline loop from Ormskirk into Kirby (and vice versa) via Skelmersdale which could also be traversed on battery power.
Edd, there are at least 3 bridges, two near Croston and the other near Midge Hall that were re-built to single track on the line to Preston which would be very expensive (especially from Network Rail) to re-instate to double track. All the other infrastructure is pretty much intact apart from the many occupation crossings and the road level crossing at Midge hall all being single track. Whilst it would be great to have electric/battery trains on the line I don't think for one minute it will happen.
A link to Preston was planned years and years ago I think, plans never took off though. It would make sense as changing at ormskirk is a pain sometimes
One missing element is the old Hooton to West Kirby line… built over at critical locations deliberately done to prevent the line ever reopening. But if the sections at Neston and Lower Heswall hadn’t been built upon then what am excellent part of the Merseyrail network this would have been. Saying that, the population growth may have been rapidly accelerated and places like Thurstaston and Caldy wouldn’t be the sleepy open air spaces that they are still today.
I did not realise that the Hooton-W Kirby route had been 'sabotaged', I thought it was a country walk route. A pity as a loop line from the system around the Wirral - ie Birkenhead- HS to W Kirby to Hooton to Birkenhead HS - would be ideal.
@@uingaeoc3905 yes it was closed to,passengers in 1956 and survived until about 62 for goods only then within a year they took up the track. By the late 60s the station site at Heswall was built upon along with the station site at Neston. When you realise that when the railways were being cut back the fact that the track and infrastructure was often ripped up and land sold off as quickly as possible maybe as a strategy to prevent the railways from being reopened later on.
If the Burscough Curves were reinstated they would create the demand. Everytime you build a new railway the passengers come out if the woodwork to use it
Great Video but i think you should add another category demand and therefore likely passenger usage , you do touch on theses subjects the airport link would score a definite 10.
The Borderlands line always feels that it should be part of Merseyrail. If you say there are chargers at Chester, why can't there be put on the Borderlands line? Say at Shotton, as a hub with the North Wales line too? Bring in Borderlands, then in the event of Welsh independence, Wales will be a country with no tube of its own, but with a tube branch from a neighbour's city reaching into it.
Great point, also, I think the more services that can be taken away from the dismal TfW the better also. Maybe there's another video on this in the new year?
My idea is that they set up a single set of third rail or a single line of overhead wire only in the station where it can charge and the wires or rail ends at the end of the station
I have recently watched a video on CZcams (content provider Bee Here Now). He walked the Bootle New Strand to Aintree line. He suggested Sefton Council were lobbying to reopen this line. From the video it is apparent the line is overgrown in parts but tracks are still there. I lived for many years close to the viaduct over the Northern line (Huntscross to Southport) and the viaduct looks to the layman in very condition. Only other obstacle I can see would be the condition of the bridge over the Leeds to Liverpool canal.
I heard Network Rail did some maintenance to the underbridge at Linacre Road in Litherland. If would make sense and the line passes through some areas of high employment on Bridle Road with Sandtander, the Fire Service and the Vesty industrial estate.
I defiantly think the Southport to Preston line would be a huge improvement. Its really annoying how the Southport to Liverpool is really good but everything north is just terrible. The roads and bus's going from Southport to Preston are heavily strained at rush hour and the lack of direct train service to the north makes the other half of the north west feel almost disconnected. It would be nice on day if you could get a direct train from Blackpool to Southport, two what feel like forgotten towns.
I know Liverpool South Parkway to Airport is to be covered in depth later, but my understanding is that the service would not use the Garston freight line, but would go light rail at street level (if not actually on-street) through the retail and business parks. I suppose it would take over the slow lines to Lime Street and the stations thereon, everything else would be express.
In the 1980s track work to Warrington was with sleepers for 3rd rail , but Cheshire County Council wouldn’t pay to electrify the line - so we heard. I did hear that Stanlow oil refinery was the reason for electric traction not going to Helsby due to arcing.
Third rail may not be favoured but it is being considered for the route Basingstoke to Exeter, currently run by diesel. The line almost cut by Beeching is now very busy. Commuters use it into London from Salisbury but it is also heavily used into Exeter from stations west of Salisbury. Electrify lines and provide a decent service and passengers will travel. Wrexham into Liverpool and Skelmersdale into Liverpool would breathe life into both towns.
Yes, that South Western route is busy and I've worked down there. There is official backing from the Liverpool Metro Mayor for a line to Seem, but nobody's seen any money for it!
With the Burscough Curves it would be ideal for the people of Southport who want to travel to Preston as the only other way if you couldn't drive is to travel on the bus. We've needed a suitable direct rail link to Preston for years and the only other direct route which would've been more ideal which went via Churchtown and Hesketh Bank got closed and lifted in the 1960's, and the majority of the trackbed for that route has long since been built over so it's impossible to rebuild that route. With a direct rail link to Preston from Southport it would be ideal for railtours to run out of the resort more often too.
It always makes me laugh that Merseyrail say you can go to Scotland via Ormskirk. You can but it would take a while. As for the Burscough curves, I totally agree and would link a large part of the NW.
This only just came up in my recommended. A few years ago a chap I knew thought that 507's could be battery fitted and a section of third rail could be fitted in the Ormskirk bay platform at Preston which would only be switched on when a train was occupying that section. The dwell times at Preston could be altered to provide an adequate charging time. Maybe this could be looked at again. A similar situation could be applied on the Kirkby to Wigan section allowing services to run New Brighton to Wigan maybe?
That would make far too much sense! There may be petty funding issues where Merseytravel won’t pay for improvements that are in Lancashire (and not in travel zones).
Lancashire indeed want to reopen Preston to Southport, presumably as a disel service to begin with. If that happened, it would replace Preston-Ormskirk and Merseyrail battery-operated trains could follow an extension to connect at Burscough Junction. I've been on Ormskirk-Preston, it was little used.
Ormskirk to Preston has improved as it used to be an irregular service. Now it’s (mostly!) hourly. Hard to think this was the Lancashire & Yorkshire Railway’s principal route to Scotland from Liverpool Exchange.
@@DIEMLtdTV Irregular is being polite 🙂 I used to travel it daily when they used Pacers with a maintenance crew on board because they broke down that often, Battery trains could run from Ormskirk through Burscough up to Southport on a reinstated curve at Burscough Junction, charging at Southport and Ormskirk, with Burscough Bridge as an interchange for Preston trains.
I'm surprised you didn't consider the following: 1) Connecting the Wapping tunnel to the south of Central (the northern line tunnel and wapping tunnels literally touch), and running a line down the WCML (also reinstating the Wavertree, Sefton Park and Speke stations along the route) and _adding a curve going east from near the Higher Road overbridge, then south (to a potential station in Hale?), then west to a (probably underground) station at the airport_ [edit: oh, you have a video on _the second part of this,_ I'll check it out.] 2) Same as 1), except reinstating the Wapping tunnel fully and providing a station directly on the docks instead of at Central 3) Same as 1), except instead of the WCML, the middle route to Manchester is taken 4) Same as 2), except instead of the WCML, the middle route to Manchester is taken (creative, I know) 5) Rebuilding the Liverpool North Extension line from Hunts Cross (which has a spare platform), past Broad Green (build a lower level platform for interchange) and up to Aintree (which has a spare platform) with more stations along the way. While a significant build, the suburbs of in the south and the east are increasingly disconnected from the railway and forced into cars. Short rant: For a supposedly world-class city, we're really lacking in rail. I suppose those petrochemical and automotive industries' bribes are just too lucrative... Massive motorway construction costs and unthinkable oil and automotive subsidies, and nobody bats an eye; railways privatised, constantly defunded and unimaginable amounts of closures, yet the rail network is still seen as a burden. How ideological.
@@DIEMLtdTV It's absolutely shocking that, in a time of desperate need for electric trains to suburban destinations, Merseyrail would neglect using an already-electrified main line - with pre-made spaces for where stations used to be, and goes right into the city centre, and potentially to the airport if they ever bother to getting around to that - for what seems like no good reason. While option 5 might seem like a costly one, it might be worth looking at it from a perspective other than cost; in the same way all of the railways that made up the Northern and City lines today might have been seen as highly costly and not short-sighted enough to fit our economy's demands for immediate ROIs, they've lasted until the modern day and have had use basically uninterrupted since. Investments in our city are needed not just for today but for hundreds of years to come! Cheap and dirty solutions may feel great for investors in the short term, but they rarely last nor provide a lasting impact like the prior examples did.
@@caramelldansen2204 20 off years ago I worked at Ditton Station which whilst disused, still had the buildings. A classic example of a lack of investment.
@@DIEMLtdTV Absolutely right. I suppose the peasants of the north don't deserve rail; they should have had the good sense to be born in a "proper" southern, rich family, like that of a politician, or a lord, or a baron!
@@caramelldansen2204 Last week I started my journey home from working in London on the Elizabeth Line and ended it on a 45 year old Merseyrail train. That kind up sums things up for me.
Very good video but the 777 can also be fitted with 25 Kev ac voltage for future reference. It’s cheaper than 750 DC third rail . So boarder lands line to Wrexham is most definite .
The 777 cannot fit third rail, batteries, and 25kv AC OHLE at the same time, and have to choose between two, due to space constraints. They can however take 750v DC OHLE with the given space, so if the electrification was modified for that, say in the platform, they could still charge up.
Yes it is closer and yes a link is definately needed. A number of airports with a lesser throughput of passengers than Liverpool airport have rail / tram links. Come on Steve, get it going sooner than later.
I was told by the project managers that 777s can be IPEMU with batteries, or dual voltage, but not both. The space used for the batteries is also the space required for the 25kv transformer, so it's one or he other. Did you say there's no connection between the dock lines and Merseyrail at Bootle. There is, because that's how new units are delivered to Kirkby, via the freight line from Edge Hill crossing on to Merseyrail at Bootle Jnc, with a reverse at Oriel Road and a second reverse at Sandhills to gain access to Kirkdale depot. Merseyrail have published their ambitions including extending from Ellesmere Port to Helsby, and beyond Hunts Cross to Warrington Central. Since the December 2022 timetable there is now a Northern service that terminates at Warrington Central using the siding beyond the station for turning back. This is also the only service to call at Hunts Cross (excluding Merseyrail) and Halewood, with a TPE and EMR going to Piccadilly and beyond, and a second Northern service that terminates Oxford Road. One possibility is to have a third rail section in the siding for charging purposes that only energised while a train is present. If sense prevails, the route will one day be 25kv. Electrification between Bolton and Wigan was approved a little while ago, while another knowledgeable CZcamsr, Railnatter showed a map with future electrification proposals, one being from Wigan Wallgate to Kirkby as it is also a freight route. That would be ideal for dual voltage 777s to reach Wigan. This week the first 777/1 sub class unit 777140 was delivered to Kirkby (interestingly topped and tailed by two pairs of ex HST class 43s) Great video. Lets hope some of it eventually bears fruit, especially the Burscough curves.
@@DIEMLtdTV I'm on the first public service now. Just left Kirkby for the return to Liverpool Central. Got to say, initial reaction is they are pretty good complete with industry standard hard seats.
That's great news and about time too. The poor old units are struggling (I had a service cancelled last week as the doors were faulty). Looking forward to getting on a 777 soon.
Skelmersdale needs improved links to the Liverpool city region. But that does not necessarily mean extending the PW from Rainford; as we all know, the cost of any kind of civils work increases almost month by month during the planning stages, never mind once spades hit the ground. I have a much simpler idea. Run under battery power as far as Rainford. Although the route from Kirkby is singled - journey time just 8mins by Northern services - Rainford station itself is double tracked, so ideal as a terminus. From where Skelmersdale town centre is less than 4miles away - a route that could ideally be served with a small fleet of electric buses. Little or no civil works required - unless some farmland was needed for a bus turnaround stop at Rainford. Easy and cheap.
Sorry, my brain was in "park" rather than "drive". Because of course the new Headbolt Lane station - now under construction - will extend the Merseyrail network about a mile further towards Rainford. Apologies.
The joint proposal by Cheshire West and Chester and Merseyrail to reinstate the Helsby line has been rejected by the government because of lack of use, this is a parliamentary line and there is only a train out in the morning and a return back on the evening so there is no service to use, people from Ellesmere Port and Ince and Elton have to drive to Helsby to catch the train to Manchester.
I was brought up in Southport, so I know the area. The video makes no thought of demand. I would have thought the greatest demand in all of this is to connect Skelmersdale and Wigan with Liverpool.
The question i cant seem to find an answer for. Yes the 777's batteries can last for 20ish miles, but how long do they take to recharge? What is the difference between charging in service to charging whilst stationary? The other question is about neighboring PTEs. Its all very well saying lets extend as far as we can, but Lancashire for example are pushing for the reopening of the North Burscough Curve, which would suggest they want a Preston-Southport service, which would mean there would probably be no paths available for Merseyrail services to Preston as most of the line is single track. With regard to extensions i feel there is a perfect outer limit to the Merseyrail area that they should not extend beyond. This is the orbital railway which connects Southport, Burscough Bridge, Wigan, Newton-le-Willows, Warrington, Runcorn, Helsby, Chester, Shotton. The first extensions i would do are short and would not require any electrification. Kirkby extension. Ellesmere Port to Helsby Ormskirk to Burscough Bridge via Reopened South Burscough Curve Pie in the sky... Edge Hill Spur & Airport (Tunnel: Liverpool Central - Georgian Quarter - Edge Hill, Existing tracks: Edge Hill - Wavertree Playground - Smithdown Road - Mossley Hill - West Allerton - Liverpool South Parkway, Viaduct: Liverpool South Parkway - Speke Blvd/Speke Hall Ave - Liverpool Airport) With the limitations of the batteries and cost prohibitive nature of electrifying the Wrexham line. I think the easiest way to do it is to have New stations at Beechwood and Woodchurch on the Borderlands line and extend Merseyrail to Woodchurch 2tph. Either terminate the borderlands line at Woodchurch or Extend it to New Brighton via a reopened Bidston North Curve. The option would still be open to increase Borderlands frequency to 2tph.
Very good points and thanks for posting. I totally agree that the shorter outer edges are prime for development for battery power. Would the longer routes warrant the investment. Pre-pandemic Burscough Jct and Croston both only had 47k passengers a year, but the interesting footfall predictions would be Liverpool to Preston direct, which currently takes between 46 and 52 mins via WCML from Lime Street whilst Liverpool Central to Ormskirk currently takes 35 mins and then Ormskirk to Preston 30 mins.
@@DIEMLtdTV I'd be more inclined to prioritise interchange capability. Reopening both Burscough curves and having direct services from Southport to Preston and Beyond, whilst having Merseyrail terminate at Burscough Bridge creates a perfect interchange station without the need for an expensive 'white elephant' construction project that would just be totally unnecessary for the size of the town. If you just extend Merseyrail to Preston, it would have to terminate there, wheras Northern services could potentially (although they dont currently) continue further northwards, possibly to Blackpool South. There would not need to be any form of charging capability installed at Preston either. (I doubt 777's have space for Batteries and OHLE capability) Northern might also be able to interoperate their services, and save money on crew and unit down time. (For example, Train arrives at Southport from Preston, and then forms the next service to Wigan.)
I would like to see the Southport to Manchester service invested in. There is a massive economic boost waiting to be had if someone has some foresight. The diesel busses that trundle and belch their way at sloth like speeds are right out of the 80's and fit only for the scrap heap Sort it out will ya.
@@suninn22 In theory yes, but Network Rail is not keen to install any more 3rd rail because of worker safety (ie keeping staff as far away from the juice as possible!)
@ziz I agree. Battery power seems to be an inadequate cop-out to me. There are miles and miles of third rail in the south east but we don't hear of workers being zapped every week do we? Could it not be the case that Network rail do not want to or are unable to invest heavily in new infrastructure outside the south east? Extend the 3rd rail system I say. It is surely easier to do that than install OHLE especially if there are many bridges, tunnels and level crossings on the line. Although it made sense to extend the existing OHLE from London Paddington, one has to look at how long it took to install OHLE westwards to Cardiff Central (not even reaching Swansea as was originally planned).
I like more continuety in direct train travel, yet you are explaining in your video just from the perspective of "Merseyrial" ... instead of joint ventures with other train opporators working together ... remember when mereyrail started of it was a B.R. Merseyrail venture!
Yes, perhaps I've been a bit Merseyrail focused especially as they don't run on WCML Saying that, you could run a 25kV OLE version of the Class 777 from Lime Street (or Crewe, Runcorn or even a reopened Ditton) and the spur to the airport be on battery.
@@DIEMLtdTV Don't get me wrong ... I think your video's are very informative, just pose the question of other providers working in partnership with Merseyrail !.
Can I just ask does anyone have any idea what the actual financial costs are for a Local Authority to simply apply (feasibility etc) to the powers that be?
Very good video, I wish you can do a video about a semi fast services from southport to Liverpool central, could you do a video that reacts to Kayla Bibby underground map, it has semi fast services and a direct service from Blackpool to Liverpool via southport. It will be interesting to hear from someone else how this can be done 🙂 the 2050 map even includes a spaceport in Liverpool airport.
Thanks Joseph! My nearest station is Freshfield so no fast line for me thanks lol!!! Maybe her maps could for a sequel to this video? Our next rail video will be about the integrated rail plan, then a link to the airport...THEN a quite big series next year on infrastructure...so watch this space.
How about the Halton Link, and using the 3rd platform at Runcorn for terminating. This can provide a link to Ellesmere Port, for Runcorn residents and ex London and Birmingham Cross Platform interchange. 25kv at Runcorn end also.
The Halton curve as it's called has reopened and there are now diesel services between Lime Street and Chester (eventually going to be extended to Wales) via Frodsham and Helsby. Merseyrail could also easily be extended the short distance from Ellesmere Port to Helsby using battery power that would then connect to this link. The infrastructure is all there.
@@stevebramhill3811 Good point but would Network Rail want another service coming into Lime Street, especially when TfW are running services there. I'd prefer Merseyrail to look at the Borderlands line, but would the platforms on that line be suitable for the 777s?
Bidston-Wrexham. Apparently TfW-Borderlands has new rolling stock - the hybridsed diesel-battery LT refurbished 230s - which means they are incompatible with the Merseyrail Wirral Loop. That means you will still have to cross-platforms at Bidston. How daft is that? Merseyrail will have to operate the section with 777 Battery-DC hybrids to at least Neston.
@DIEMLtdTV 230's have only partly entered service! There's been an issue of the trains not being able to run to the timetable, so TfW only ran them two-hourly with buses in between. TfW are still doing work on the trains to fix some of the issues and they say all 5 will be in service and able to run a half-hourly service 'in the early summer' - they didn't specify which year though! They said there were some engineering fixes to rectify the late running, but others were still being investigated. This together with TfW also stripping the borderlands trains to replace the fire-prone 175s, then most people and public bodies think the line should be given to Merseyrail. The 230s could then run Wrexham - Bidston - Hooton - Chester At the very least then from Shotton to Bidston should become Merseyrail
There's already trials of hydrogen powered fuel cell trains to replace diesel powered. This would seem the future. There's not enough lithium in the world for future demand going down the battery route. Just need to ramp up greatly the commercial production of hydrogen.
@@johnburns4017 I do agree it needs one. The route to the town would be expensive to built having to cross the M58 and the original trackbed from Parbold looks like it has both houses on it and Whiteness landfill site.
@@DIEMLtdTV The plan to run in from Rainford was simple and cheap. The college was bought where the station would be. It would be a dead end one track terminal station. Cheap. I doubt Kirkby (Liverpool) to Wigan is viabale unless the line is run into Skem.
What would be the problem if Merseyrail was converted from 3rd rail to overhead? The battery power could be used in the tunnels then all other areas could be overhead, then there could be unlimited expansion and no infrastructure changes for the tunnel network
Cost....the cost of overhead electricity has been a real issue for the rail industry, look at the Great Western project for examples of being well over budget
@@DIEMLtdTV He wants Liverpool to Runcorn East via Ellesmere Port/Helsby, and Chester to Runcorn East via Helsby. Or Ellesmere Port to Runcorn East. Helsby is an interchange, with the Chester Warrington and Manchester, etc, trains running through the station. Both are easy to do with battery trains as the track is there not needing any engineering works. There is a turn around junction at Runcorn East, so probably why Runcorn East is the choice rather than Warrington. Halton, in his remit, is not served by Merseyrail (apart from City Line), so he is determined to get it onto the Network. The Integrated Rail Plan suggests the WCML spur from Weaver junction to Widnes be used for local traffic with Runcorn losing its London service (so much for uselsss HS2). If this comes about then Merseyrail is there to step in.
@@DIEMLtdTV He wants Merseyrail into Runcorn and Runcorn East. Also to link up the City Region, even if going through other authorities (they also gain).
If you're talking in terms of every service, currently terminating at Ormskirk, running through to Preston, you'd probably need some sort of passing loop at Ormskirk (not that difficult, as there was an emergency connection between both lines, at one stage). What would be more difficult, is persuading the bean counters that turning some/all of the fleet into tri-voltage trains would be cost effective; given that it would involve a lot of expense for equipment that only sees use for 20 minutes, at one end of one line. If the idea was to use that 25kV AC "add-on" as the means to extend the Merseyrail network onto lines that either already have OHLE or could be wired up with it, that may well tip the cost/benefit balance in favour of doing the work. The owning RoSCo might be interested in modifying the trains; DfT, probably not so much, as regards putting up the wires!
The industry is squeamish about extending 3rd rail as it’s more places for staff to come in contact with 750V DC at shin height. Also, batteries may be cheaper as you don’t have to relay the p-way and install the electrical infrastructure
Just extend the third rail to Preston, Wigan, Warrington and Helsby. We’ve had this form of electrification for generations so the health & safety card is just a lame excuse to do nothing. Typical of this day and age.
@@nigelkthomas9501 extension of 3rd rail is sensible, but sadly I don't make the rules. To be fair, the few times I worked on live 3rd rail lines I didn't like it. Not being tall I found it odd to be stretching over to cross the conductor rail.
Very interesting but perhaps the people of Preston don’t want to be connected. What happened when merseyrial was connected to Chester. The accent changed from a Cheshire accent which was lovely to a filthy disgusting scouse accent polluting the people. Preston has a lovely accent. The last thing we want is to be infected by thriving scousers with their disgusting accent.
Preston has a lovely accent. OK there Freddie. Personally I’m glad that I’m bringing a bit of linguistic excellence to Merseyside by being a Blackburn lad living there.
@@johnburns4017 great. Then don’t build a connecting railway and we will all be happy. The last thing we want. In Lancashire is to be contaminated by that slimy sickening accent
Good video. Couple of points. There is a connection from Merseyrail to the freight line to edge at Bootle. It was used for many years for a service to London from southport. Later replaced by a DMU to lime St. This link is occasionally used for rail tours & engineering trains. As for the North mersey line. The infrastructure is still in place though very overgrown. Indeed the bridge over Linacre Rd has recently been refurbished. This line has also regularly been suggested for reopening though never done. Indeed it was proposed to become part of the North East outer loop of Merseyrail, though those plans were cancelled
Thanks for the update, that's really interesting about Linacre Road bridge being refurbed.
@@DIEMLtdTV I was a signalman at Bootle Junction. I travel to Liverpool daily. The points are still there from the Alexander Dock line to Aintree line.
Up until around five years ago, engineering trains used the North Mersey branch line. The odd one may still do.
Do u think it'll ever happen & when?
The "Wirral country park" is much used by walkers, cyclists and horses. As a rail line, It didn't reach any towns other than Neston and Heswall, which still have stations, and there are other blockages than the ones you mention (for example at the northern end).
Love the graphics. Like everyone else we'd like to see extensions to Wrexham, Wigan, Warrington, Preston..and the Airport. Outside of this I want to see the tunnels brought in to use in town. Maybe a new tram system that can integrate with some new stations in town. The outer loop would be a good way to introduce trams on a crosscity line.
Thank you, I only use the draw function on Powerpoint and some patience! Sadly new lines are all about footfall and and with city-centric organisation such as Merseytravel, I can see them concentrating on the lines they have.
I used to send freight trains from Bootle Junction to Aintree. I once signalled the Royal Train to the Grand National.It had the late Queen Mother on board. It was a beautiful pullman set with a class 56 or 47 locomotive. That was 1988.
Hope Her Majesty got a winner that day.
There used to be regular specials to the Grand National using Olive Mount and Bootle Junction.
I think a second link to Southport for the Northern Line could prove invaluable so Ormskirk to Southport should be reinstated. It could also be used as a relief line in cases of track renewal. For me a Lime Street to Bootle line also makes sense as it would provide a much faster service. This could also make good use of a reopened Bootle to Aintree/ Ormskirk/ Southport/Preston branch line rather than changing and shuttling these services would obviously enhance the existing network. Obviously we are looking at laying extra 3rd rail track but the Bootle branch to Lime Street could be done with relative safety as it’s unlikely to attract trespassers. The Bootle to Aintree branch could be run on battery power. I’m not sure how much of Northern’s Ormskirk to Preston could be re-doubled but the route would require it as services would be likely to run every 15 minutes, this would cause problems for trains passing and extend waiting times at loop line stations.
Certainly a fast service from Bootle to Lime Street direct must be a no brainer. The Aintree branch avoids changing and shuttling and running through to Southport and Preston also makes total sense.
You could also (theoretically) run a branchline loop from Ormskirk into Kirby (and vice versa) via Skelmersdale which could also be traversed on battery power.
I agree as I live in Formby and Ormskirk is a faff to get to on Merseyrail
Edd, there are at least 3 bridges, two near Croston and the other near Midge Hall that were re-built to single track on the line to Preston which would be very expensive (especially from Network Rail) to re-instate to double track. All the other infrastructure is pretty much intact apart from the many occupation crossings and the road level crossing at Midge hall all being single track. Whilst it would be great to have electric/battery trains on the line I don't think for one minute it will happen.
On the Wrexham shorter route I'd expand that down to Shrewsbury, a new station at Oswestry is being built also. Its dual tracked also.
It will be interesting if they plan to install any charging at stations.
A link to Preston was planned years and years ago I think, plans never took off though. It would make sense as changing at ormskirk is a pain sometimes
It's always been a pain due to the infrequency of trains at the Preston end.
One missing element is the old Hooton to West Kirby line… built over at critical locations deliberately done to prevent the line ever reopening. But if the sections at Neston and Lower Heswall hadn’t been built upon then what am excellent part of the Merseyrail network this would have been. Saying that, the population growth may have been rapidly accelerated and places like Thurstaston and Caldy wouldn’t be the sleepy open air spaces that they are still today.
Interesting post, thanks
I did not realise that the Hooton-W Kirby route had been 'sabotaged', I thought it was a country walk route. A pity as a loop line from the system around the Wirral - ie Birkenhead- HS to W Kirby to Hooton to Birkenhead HS - would be ideal.
@@uingaeoc3905 yes it was closed to,passengers in 1956 and survived until about 62 for goods only then within a year they took up the track. By the late 60s the station site at Heswall was built upon along with the station site at Neston. When you realise that when the railways were being cut back the fact that the track and infrastructure was often ripped up and land sold off as quickly as possible maybe as a strategy to prevent the railways from being reopened later on.
If the Burscough Curves were reinstated they would create the demand. Everytime you build a new railway the passengers come out if the woodwork to use it
They would but the local authority needs to press…. And can Lancs CC be bothered?
Great Video but i think you should add another category demand and therefore likely passenger usage , you do touch on theses subjects the airport link would score a definite 10.
That’s a good idea and I’ll add it to my list. I’m having a look at doing on on some of the grindingly low journey times out of the region at the mo.
The Borderlands line always feels that it should be part of Merseyrail. If you say there are chargers at Chester, why can't there be put on the Borderlands line? Say at Shotton, as a hub with the North Wales line too?
Bring in Borderlands, then in the event of Welsh independence, Wales will be a country with no tube of its own, but with a tube branch from a neighbour's city reaching into it.
Great point, also, I think the more services that can be taken away from the dismal TfW the better also. Maybe there's another video on this in the new year?
My idea is that they set up a single set of third rail or a single line of overhead wire only in the station where it can charge and the wires or rail ends at the end of the station
They are planning that for the Very Light Tram project in Coventry.
I have recently watched a video on CZcams (content provider Bee Here Now). He walked the Bootle New Strand to Aintree line. He suggested Sefton Council were lobbying to reopen this line. From the video it is apparent the line is overgrown in parts but tracks are still there. I lived for many years close to the viaduct over the Northern line (Huntscross to Southport) and the viaduct looks to the layman in very condition. Only other obstacle I can see would be the condition of the bridge over the Leeds to Liverpool canal.
I heard Network Rail did some maintenance to the underbridge at Linacre Road in Litherland.
If would make sense and the line passes through some areas of high employment on Bridle Road with Sandtander, the Fire Service and the Vesty industrial estate.
I defiantly think the Southport to Preston line would be a huge improvement. Its really annoying how the Southport to Liverpool is really good but everything north is just terrible. The roads and bus's going from Southport to Preston are heavily strained at rush hour and the lack of direct train service to the north makes the other half of the north west feel almost disconnected. It would be nice on day if you could get a direct train from Blackpool to Southport, two what feel like forgotten towns.
I live to the north of the Merseyrail Northern Line and couldn't agree more.
I know Liverpool South Parkway to Airport is to be covered in depth later, but my understanding is that the service would not use the Garston freight line, but would go light rail at street level (if not actually on-street) through the retail and business parks. I suppose it would take over the slow lines to Lime Street and the stations thereon, everything else would be express.
In the 1980s track work to Warrington was with sleepers for 3rd rail , but Cheshire County Council wouldn’t pay to electrify the line - so we heard. I did hear that Stanlow oil refinery was the reason for electric traction not going to Helsby due to arcing.
I’ve not read that, very interesting. Thanks.
Chester - Llandudno Junction Idk how many miles will take up but
Third rail may not be favoured but it is being considered for the route Basingstoke to Exeter, currently run by diesel. The line almost cut by Beeching is now very busy. Commuters use it into London from Salisbury but it is also heavily used into Exeter from stations west of Salisbury. Electrify lines and provide a decent service and passengers will travel. Wrexham into Liverpool and Skelmersdale into Liverpool would breathe life into both towns.
Yes, that South Western route is busy and I've worked down there. There is official backing from the Liverpool Metro Mayor for a line to Seem, but nobody's seen any money for it!
With the Burscough Curves it would be ideal for the people of Southport who want to travel to Preston as the only other way if you couldn't drive is to travel on the bus. We've needed a suitable direct rail link to Preston for years and the only other direct route which would've been more ideal which went via Churchtown and Hesketh Bank got closed and lifted in the 1960's, and the majority of the trackbed for that route has long since been built over so it's impossible to rebuild that route. With a direct rail link to Preston from Southport it would be ideal for railtours to run out of the resort more often too.
It always makes me laugh that Merseyrail say you can go to Scotland via Ormskirk. You can but it would take a while.
As for the Burscough curves, I totally agree and would link a large part of the NW.
This only just came up in my recommended.
A few years ago a chap I knew thought that 507's could be battery fitted and a section of third rail could be fitted in the Ormskirk bay platform at Preston which would only be switched on when a train was occupying that section.
The dwell times at Preston could be altered to provide an adequate charging time.
Maybe this could be looked at again.
A similar situation could be applied on the Kirkby to Wigan section allowing services to run New Brighton to Wigan maybe?
That would make far too much sense!
There may be petty funding issues where Merseytravel won’t pay for improvements that are in Lancashire (and not in travel zones).
Lancashire indeed want to reopen Preston to Southport, presumably as a disel service to begin with. If that happened, it would replace Preston-Ormskirk and Merseyrail battery-operated trains could follow an extension to connect at Burscough Junction. I've been on Ormskirk-Preston, it was little used.
Ormskirk to Preston has improved as it used to be an irregular service. Now it’s (mostly!) hourly. Hard to think this was the Lancashire & Yorkshire Railway’s principal route to Scotland from Liverpool Exchange.
@@DIEMLtdTV Irregular is being polite 🙂
I used to travel it daily when they used Pacers with a maintenance crew on board because they broke down that often,
Battery trains could run from Ormskirk through Burscough up to Southport on a reinstated curve at Burscough Junction, charging at Southport and Ormskirk, with Burscough Bridge as an interchange for Preston trains.
you forgot to include Runcorn to Chester via the Halton curve, this is suppose to be being re-built as we speak.
I suppose Merseyrail would be extended to Runcorn from the Chester end for this.
I'm surprised you didn't consider the following:
1) Connecting the Wapping tunnel to the south of Central (the northern line tunnel and wapping tunnels literally touch), and running a line down the WCML (also reinstating the Wavertree, Sefton Park and Speke stations along the route) and _adding a curve going east from near the Higher Road overbridge, then south (to a potential station in Hale?), then west to a (probably underground) station at the airport_
[edit: oh, you have a video on _the second part of this,_ I'll check it out.]
2) Same as 1), except reinstating the Wapping tunnel fully and providing a station directly on the docks instead of at Central
3) Same as 1), except instead of the WCML, the middle route to Manchester is taken
4) Same as 2), except instead of the WCML, the middle route to Manchester is taken (creative, I know)
5) Rebuilding the Liverpool North Extension line from Hunts Cross (which has a spare platform), past Broad Green (build a lower level platform for interchange) and up to Aintree (which has a spare platform) with more stations along the way. While a significant build, the suburbs of in the south and the east are increasingly disconnected from the railway and forced into cars.
Short rant: For a supposedly world-class city, we're really lacking in rail. I suppose those petrochemical and automotive industries' bribes are just too lucrative... Massive motorway construction costs and unthinkable oil and automotive subsidies, and nobody bats an eye; railways privatised, constantly defunded and unimaginable amounts of closures, yet the rail network is still seen as a burden. How ideological.
Was based on the published plans… but may do a part 2?
@@DIEMLtdTV It's absolutely shocking that, in a time of desperate need for electric trains to suburban destinations, Merseyrail would neglect using an already-electrified main line - with pre-made spaces for where stations used to be, and goes right into the city centre, and potentially to the airport if they ever bother to getting around to that - for what seems like no good reason.
While option 5 might seem like a costly one, it might be worth looking at it from a perspective other than cost; in the same way all of the railways that made up the Northern and City lines today might have been seen as highly costly and not short-sighted enough to fit our economy's demands for immediate ROIs, they've lasted until the modern day and have had use basically uninterrupted since. Investments in our city are needed not just for today but for hundreds of years to come! Cheap and dirty solutions may feel great for investors in the short term, but they rarely last nor provide a lasting impact like the prior examples did.
@@caramelldansen2204 20 off years ago I worked at Ditton Station which whilst disused, still had the buildings. A classic example of a lack of investment.
@@DIEMLtdTV Absolutely right. I suppose the peasants of the north don't deserve rail; they should have had the good sense to be born in a "proper" southern, rich family, like that of a politician, or a lord, or a baron!
@@caramelldansen2204 Last week I started my journey home from working in London on the Elizabeth Line and ended it on a 45 year old Merseyrail train. That kind up sums things up for me.
why have they not extended the south leg of the Northern line to reach Halewood yet?
I don’t think there’s a crossover so trains can come back to Liverpool on the right road.
Very good video but the 777 can also be fitted with 25 Kev ac voltage for future reference. It’s cheaper than 750 DC third rail . So boarder lands line to Wrexham is most definite .
Thanks
Definate? Been waiting decades for Borderlands to access Liverpool's centre.
loving the narrator's accent 🍸
Thank you, nobody has ever said that before!
The 777 cannot fit third rail, batteries, and 25kv AC OHLE at the same time, and have to choose between two, due to space constraints. They can however take 750v DC OHLE with the given space, so if the electrification was modified for that, say in the platform, they could still charge up.
As for Liverpool airport, I just walked it to Hunts Cross. It’s nearer than Liverpool South Parkway.
Yes, once got off the train at HNX and walked to a job near the airport. It wasn’t far.
Yes it is closer and yes a link is definately needed.
A number of airports with a lesser throughput of passengers than Liverpool airport have rail / tram links.
Come on Steve, get it going sooner than later.
I was told by the project managers that 777s can be IPEMU with batteries, or dual voltage, but not both. The space used for the batteries is also the space required for the 25kv transformer, so it's one or he other.
Did you say there's no connection between the dock lines and Merseyrail at Bootle. There is, because that's how new units are delivered to Kirkby, via the freight line from Edge Hill crossing on to Merseyrail at Bootle Jnc, with a reverse at Oriel Road and a second reverse at Sandhills to gain access to Kirkdale depot. Merseyrail have published their ambitions including extending from Ellesmere Port to Helsby, and beyond Hunts Cross to Warrington Central. Since the December 2022 timetable there is now a Northern service that terminates at Warrington Central using the siding beyond the station for turning back. This is also the only service to call at Hunts Cross (excluding Merseyrail) and Halewood, with a TPE and EMR going to Piccadilly and beyond, and a second Northern service that terminates Oxford Road. One possibility is to have a third rail section in the siding for charging purposes that only energised while a train is present. If sense prevails, the route will one day be 25kv.
Electrification between Bolton and Wigan was approved a little while ago, while another knowledgeable CZcamsr, Railnatter showed a map with future electrification proposals, one being from Wigan Wallgate to Kirkby as it is also a freight route. That would be ideal for dual voltage 777s to reach Wigan.
This week the first 777/1 sub class unit 777140 was delivered to Kirkby (interestingly topped and tailed by two pairs of ex HST class 43s)
Great video. Lets hope some of it eventually bears fruit, especially the Burscough curves.
Thanks, I've read also about the bimode restrictions. They are supposed to be in service today.....I'm not stood around waiting!
@@DIEMLtdTV
I'm on the first public service now. Just left Kirkby for the return to Liverpool Central. Got to say, initial reaction is they are pretty good complete with industry standard hard seats.
That's great news and about time too. The poor old units are struggling (I had a service cancelled last week as the doors were faulty). Looking forward to getting on a 777 soon.
Plus, you have to add in, some of these additional routes may not have the demand to justify the investment.
Exactly, it’s all about passenger numbers
Skelmersdale needs improved links to the Liverpool city region. But that does not necessarily mean extending the PW from Rainford; as we all know, the cost of any kind of civils work increases almost month by month during the planning stages, never mind once spades hit the ground. I have a much simpler idea. Run under battery power as far as Rainford. Although the route from Kirkby is singled - journey time just 8mins by Northern services - Rainford station itself is double tracked, so ideal as a terminus. From where Skelmersdale town centre is less than 4miles away - a route that could ideally be served with a small fleet of electric buses. Little or no civil works required - unless some farmland was needed for a bus turnaround stop at Rainford. Easy and cheap.
Sorry, my brain was in "park" rather than "drive". Because of course the new Headbolt Lane station - now under construction - will extend the Merseyrail network about a mile further towards Rainford. Apologies.
Easy & cheap, like it. Nobody mentions electric buses, good point
Burscough curves should be done, it would be a massive improvement for the whole of West Lancashire
I agree, it would open up new routes. Travelling from Southport to Preston by train is a shocker.
The joint proposal by Cheshire West and Chester and Merseyrail to reinstate the Helsby line has been rejected by the government because of lack of use, this is a parliamentary line and there is only a train out in the morning and a return back on the evening so there is no service to use, people from Ellesmere Port and Ince and Elton have to drive to Helsby to catch the train to Manchester.
I was brought up in Southport, so I know the area. The video makes no thought of demand. I would have thought the greatest demand in all of this is to connect Skelmersdale and Wigan with Liverpool.
Answers on a postcard to Mr Steve Rotherham, Liverpool.
Wirral is not an add on.. Is already part of The Liverpool City Region and Merseyside!!
Sadly it is (only joking!)
The question i cant seem to find an answer for. Yes the 777's batteries can last for 20ish miles, but how long do they take to recharge? What is the difference between charging in service to charging whilst stationary?
The other question is about neighboring PTEs. Its all very well saying lets extend as far as we can, but Lancashire for example are pushing for the reopening of the North Burscough Curve, which would suggest they want a Preston-Southport service, which would mean there would probably be no paths available for Merseyrail services to Preston as most of the line is single track.
With regard to extensions i feel there is a perfect outer limit to the Merseyrail area that they should not extend beyond. This is the orbital railway which connects Southport, Burscough Bridge, Wigan, Newton-le-Willows, Warrington, Runcorn, Helsby, Chester, Shotton.
The first extensions i would do are short and would not require any electrification.
Kirkby extension.
Ellesmere Port to Helsby
Ormskirk to Burscough Bridge via Reopened South Burscough Curve
Pie in the sky...
Edge Hill Spur & Airport (Tunnel: Liverpool Central - Georgian Quarter - Edge Hill, Existing tracks: Edge Hill - Wavertree Playground - Smithdown Road - Mossley Hill - West Allerton - Liverpool South Parkway, Viaduct: Liverpool South Parkway - Speke Blvd/Speke Hall Ave - Liverpool Airport)
With the limitations of the batteries and cost prohibitive nature of electrifying the Wrexham line. I think the easiest way to do it is to have New stations at Beechwood and Woodchurch on the Borderlands line and extend Merseyrail to Woodchurch 2tph. Either terminate the borderlands line at Woodchurch or Extend it to New Brighton via a reopened Bidston North Curve. The option would still be open to increase Borderlands frequency to 2tph.
Very good points and thanks for posting. I totally agree that the shorter outer edges are prime for development for battery power.
Would the longer routes warrant the investment. Pre-pandemic Burscough Jct and Croston both only had 47k passengers a year, but the interesting footfall predictions would be Liverpool to Preston direct, which currently takes between 46 and 52 mins via WCML from Lime Street whilst Liverpool Central to Ormskirk currently takes 35 mins and then Ormskirk to Preston 30 mins.
@@DIEMLtdTV I'd be more inclined to prioritise interchange capability. Reopening both Burscough curves and having direct services from Southport to Preston and Beyond, whilst having Merseyrail terminate at Burscough Bridge creates a perfect interchange station without the need for an expensive 'white elephant' construction project that would just be totally unnecessary for the size of the town.
If you just extend Merseyrail to Preston, it would have to terminate there, wheras Northern services could potentially (although they dont currently) continue further northwards, possibly to Blackpool South. There would not need to be any form of charging capability installed at Preston either. (I doubt 777's have space for Batteries and OHLE capability)
Northern might also be able to interoperate their services, and save money on crew and unit down time. (For example, Train arrives at Southport from Preston, and then forms the next service to Wigan.)
I would like to see the Southport to Manchester service invested in. There is a massive economic boost waiting to be had if someone has some foresight. The diesel busses that trundle and belch their way at sloth like speeds are right out of the
80's and fit only for the scrap heap Sort it out will ya.
It is a pretty sedate journey. To be honest, from Formby it takes on average 2 hours to get to Manchester, which is a shocker.
And it's only a 33 mile journey!
The line from Wrexham to Bidston should be fully electricifiad, very well used
It would make sense, but would it be 750V 3rd rail of 25kV OLE?
Third rail and trains all the way to Lime Street
@@suninn22 In theory yes, but Network Rail is not keen to install any more 3rd rail because of worker safety (ie keeping staff as far away from the juice as possible!)
@ziz I agree. Battery power seems to be an inadequate cop-out to me. There are miles and miles of third rail in the south east but we don't hear of workers being zapped every week do we? Could it not be the case that Network rail do not want to or are unable to invest heavily in new infrastructure outside the south east? Extend the 3rd rail system I say. It is surely easier to do that than install OHLE especially if there are many bridges, tunnels and level crossings on the line. Although it made sense to extend the existing OHLE from London Paddington, one has to look at how long it took to install OHLE westwards to Cardiff Central (not even reaching Swansea as was originally planned).
I like more continuety in direct train travel, yet you are explaining in your video just from the perspective of "Merseyrial" ... instead of joint ventures with other train opporators working together ... remember when mereyrail started of it was a B.R. Merseyrail venture!
Yes, perhaps I've been a bit Merseyrail focused especially as they don't run on WCML Saying that, you could run a 25kV OLE version of the Class 777 from Lime Street (or Crewe, Runcorn or even a reopened Ditton) and the spur to the airport be on battery.
@@DIEMLtdTV Don't get me wrong ... I think your video's are very informative, just pose the question of other providers working in partnership with Merseyrail !.
Can I just ask does anyone have any idea what the actual financial costs are for a Local Authority to simply apply (feasibility etc) to the powers that be?
Pipe dreams and lines on maps....except Headbolt Lane that's currently under construction.
Very good video, I wish you can do a video about a semi fast services from southport to Liverpool central, could you do a video that reacts to Kayla Bibby underground map, it has semi fast services and a direct service from Blackpool to Liverpool via southport. It will be interesting to hear from someone else how this can be done 🙂 the 2050 map even includes a spaceport in Liverpool airport.
Thanks Joseph!
My nearest station is Freshfield so no fast line for me thanks lol!!!
Maybe her maps could for a sequel to this video?
Our next rail video will be about the integrated rail plan, then a link to the airport...THEN a quite big series next year on infrastructure...so watch this space.
"In 2021 the class 777 units are due to enter service"....
🤣
Patience is a virtue;-)
How about the Halton Link, and using the 3rd platform at Runcorn for terminating. This can provide a link to Ellesmere Port, for Runcorn residents and ex London and Birmingham Cross Platform interchange. 25kv at Runcorn end also.
Why not indeed👍🏻
The Halton curve as it's called has reopened and there are now diesel services between Lime Street and Chester (eventually going to be extended to Wales) via Frodsham and Helsby.
Merseyrail could also easily be extended the short distance from Ellesmere Port to Helsby using battery power that would then connect to this link. The infrastructure is all there.
@@stevebramhill3811 Good point but would Network Rail want another service coming into Lime Street, especially when TfW are running services there. I'd prefer Merseyrail to look at the Borderlands line, but would the platforms on that line be suitable for the 777s?
Let’s hope Merseyrail extends to Wigan Wallgate
Which route would you prefer? Southport or Kirkby?
@@DIEMLtdTV probably both, but I think Southport
@@jackthefront-loaderenterta2K11 Well, that's the route I'd take to Wigan, so I agree. However the driver would have to change ends at Southport.
@@DIEMLtdTV yeah
Would rather merseyrail operate in Skelmersdale, then northern. When the station gets built
It would be interesting to know what the bigger footfall would be if there were direct services from Skem to Manchester or Liverpool
Bidston-Wrexham. Apparently TfW-Borderlands has new rolling stock - the hybridsed diesel-battery LT refurbished 230s - which means they are incompatible with the Merseyrail Wirral Loop. That means you will still have to cross-platforms at Bidston. How daft is that? Merseyrail will have to operate the section with 777 Battery-DC hybrids to at least Neston.
Yes, the first Class 230 entered service on 3 April 2023
@DIEMLtdTV 230's have only partly entered service!
There's been an issue of the trains not being able to run to the timetable, so TfW only ran them two-hourly with buses in between.
TfW are still doing work on the trains to fix some of the issues and they say all 5 will be in service and able to run a half-hourly service 'in the early summer' - they didn't specify which year though!
They said there were some engineering fixes to rectify the late running, but others were still being investigated.
This together with TfW also stripping the borderlands trains to replace the fire-prone 175s, then most people and public bodies think the line should be given to Merseyrail. The 230s could then run Wrexham - Bidston - Hooton - Chester
At the very least then from Shotton to Bidston should become Merseyrail
lithium's become hard to mine...here's hoping cleptoparasites ditch batteryesqueness for the foreseeable future ✌
There's already trials of hydrogen powered fuel cell trains to replace diesel powered. This would seem the future. There's not enough lithium in the world for future demand going down the battery route. Just need to ramp up greatly the commercial production of hydrogen.
DfT has dropped the Skelmersdale link.
Sad but Skem, but not surprised.
@@DIEMLtdTV
Using battery trains would mean it would be a cheap undertaking. The largest town in the NW without a rail station. It had one until 1963.
@@johnburns4017 I do agree it needs one. The route to the town would be expensive to built having to cross the M58 and the original trackbed from Parbold looks like it has both houses on it and Whiteness landfill site.
@@DIEMLtdTV
The plan to run in from Rainford was simple and cheap. The college was bought where the station would be. It would be a dead end one track terminal station. Cheap.
I doubt Kirkby (Liverpool) to Wigan is viabale unless the line is run into Skem.
What would be the problem if Merseyrail was converted from 3rd rail to overhead? The battery power could be used in the tunnels then all other areas could be overhead, then there could be unlimited expansion and no infrastructure changes for the tunnel network
Cost....the cost of overhead electricity has been a real issue for the rail industry, look at the Great Western project for examples of being well over budget
The Liverpool metro-mayor wants Merseyrail into Runcorn using battery trains as Halton is in the Liverpool City Region.
Good luck with that....and other pie in the sky dream he has, whilst actually achieving very little.
@@DIEMLtdTV
He wants Liverpool to Runcorn East via Ellesmere Port/Helsby, and Chester to Runcorn East via Helsby. Or Ellesmere Port to Runcorn East. Helsby is an interchange, with the Chester Warrington and Manchester, etc, trains running through the station.
Both are easy to do with battery trains as the track is there not needing any engineering works. There is a turn around junction at Runcorn East, so probably why Runcorn East is the choice rather than Warrington.
Halton, in his remit, is not served by Merseyrail (apart from City Line), so he is determined to get it onto the Network.
The Integrated Rail Plan suggests the WCML spur from Weaver junction to Widnes be used for local traffic with Runcorn losing its London service (so much for uselsss HS2). If this comes about then Merseyrail is there to step in.
@@johnburns4017 Ah, Runcorn East, now I'm with you.
@@DIEMLtdTV
He wants Merseyrail into Runcorn and Runcorn East. Also to link up the City Region, even if going through other authorities (they also gain).
@@johnburns4017 Has he had it costed or is he just drawing lines on a map?
Why not extend the Northern Line to Blackpool via Preston and then link Blackpool South with Blackpool North to form a Loop.
The DfT have no appetite for 3rd rail on safety grounds and from what I’ve read the 777s can be DC or AC, not both twinned with some battery.
If you're talking in terms of every service, currently terminating at Ormskirk, running through to Preston, you'd probably need some sort of passing loop at Ormskirk (not that difficult, as there was an emergency connection between both lines, at one stage).
What would be more difficult, is persuading the bean counters that turning some/all of the fleet into tri-voltage trains would be cost effective; given that it would involve a lot of expense for equipment that only sees use for 20 minutes, at one end of one line. If the idea was to use that 25kV AC "add-on" as the means to extend the Merseyrail network onto lines that either already have OHLE or could be wired up with it, that may well tip the cost/benefit balance in favour of doing the work. The owning RoSCo might be interested in modifying the trains; DfT, probably not so much, as regards putting up the wires!
Yes, I remember when the P-Way was in place for the crossing about 15 years ago when I was working at the station.
Why not fit solar panels to the new Mersy Rail trains,they'll keep batteries charged
There’s an interesting article about that subject here www.railway-technology.com/analysis/solar-powered-trains/
Why bother with batteries? Just extend the conductor rail - I think we're making this far harder than it needs to be.
The industry is squeamish about extending 3rd rail as it’s more places for staff to come in contact with 750V DC at shin height.
Also, batteries may be cheaper as you don’t have to relay the p-way and install the electrical infrastructure
Just extend the third rail to Preston, Wigan, Warrington and Helsby. We’ve had this form of electrification for generations so the health & safety card is just a lame excuse to do nothing. Typical of this day and age.
The HSE are not keen on extending 3rd rail as they want to keep workers away from 750V DC as much as they can.
@@DIEMLtdTV Nothing personal, but read the last two sentences of my previous comment again! I detest lame excuses!
@@nigelkthomas9501 extension of 3rd rail is sensible, but sadly I don't make the rules. To be fair, the few times I worked on live 3rd rail lines I didn't like it. Not being tall I found it odd to be stretching over to cross the conductor rail.
Merseyrail to Manchester plz
Got something in the making on that
The Skelmersdale branch has just been cancelled by this Govt. remember this at the next election
Would a better route be via Ormskirk?
You sound like #nodrog mostly
Is that a compliment? ;-)
@@DIEMLtdTV yer
@@andybray9791 I think he's from over Blackpool way....I'm from Blackburn, so not a million miles apart!
@@DIEMLtdTV we should meet him and his family
I was thinking the same thing!
Those new trains..........why does the UK have the ugliest trains. What a disaster.
I don’t think the new 777s are that bad looking.
these aren't UK built so idk why you're blaming us
They are Swiss.
Very interesting but perhaps the people of Preston don’t want to be connected. What happened when merseyrial was connected to Chester. The accent changed from a Cheshire accent which was lovely to a filthy disgusting scouse accent polluting the people. Preston has a lovely accent. The last thing we want is to be infected by thriving scousers with their disgusting accent.
Preston has a lovely accent. OK there Freddie.
Personally I’m glad that I’m bringing a bit of linguistic excellence to Merseyside by being a Blackburn lad living there.
What a vile person you are. Nothing wrong with the Scouse accent.
I do not like Preston accents.
@@johnburns4017 great. Then don’t build a connecting railway and we will all be happy. The last thing we want. In Lancashire is to be contaminated by that slimy sickening accent