Cadians make very good mechanised infantry. It’s what I tend to run my Steel Legion as. A couple 10 man squads in Chimeras is relatively cheap. They don’t need character support as their main job is to dismount, make an objective sticky, then mount up and continue their push. Plus their special rule works really well even if your opponent blows up their transport on an objective. Catachans I see as our new “Conscripts”. Their scout move makes them an ideal first wave buffer. Krieg are the best objective play infantry as they are just so durable in their big character supported blobs. Infantry squads are decent 3rd line infantry with their heavy weapons and make good bodyguards for our Command Squads and other officers
It really is the most overlooked combo for guard infantry at the moment and very strong. Anytime you can ignore your opponent's abilities that negatively impact you is game changing.
@@CadianSergeantSteel Another you thing you go over in the video people I feel like sleep on is Castellan + Command squad but you max out power fist on all of them (2x in command squad and castellan also rocking one) so you're scary in combat (unless you're going against something like world eaters that can cut you down) + high OC with a lot of bodies & you can retreat & then blast them off the objective if anyone survived the melee.
It's because of your videos that I've decided to do 3 squads this way in my army list. The only difference is that I'm running one of the three as an Infantry Squad with a Platoon Command Squad attached so i can have a heavy weapons team built into the unit. The benefit of cover ability makes them great for sitting on an objective and laying down fire. I've got autocannons and mortars in my collection so I have some options as to how I want to run them.
There are also the combat cadians. CCS with double power fist, double plasma pistols and plasmagun instead of the banner (so OC2 only) and Castellan with plasma pistol and power fist and CST with double plasma gives you without being in FRSRF and rapid fire range: 6 Plasma shots and in melee 9 Power Fist Attacks S6 AP-2 D2. So in rapid fire range with FRSRF you gain 12 Plasma shots and after that, you can finish the enemy off in melee, but if that is not enough, you can fall back and shoot to end them rightly.
Whilst I think cadians are perhaps our weakest battleline unit, I loved the video and your take on the unit. I think cadians suffer from the fact most guard armies have enough bodies to not need sticky objectives, but the improved command squad might be vital vs some local metas. Saying all that, the new models are so nice it's hard not to take them! I like the idea of little 10-mans to sticky things just in case and might try and work some of those in.
Sticky doesnt have much to do with OC tho. Its about having the numbers (msu) and denying access to the zone aka moving cadians to a more forward position to unload all those heavies. 1 sticky unit is kinda a must, if no other battleline that makes them autoinclude.
@@javilo2797 I mean, if you have OC you don't need sticky, which was my point. You're correct that if you're keeping a high line and choking the space to keep your opponent away (and zoned from deepstrike) you can rely on sticky, but it's very rare that's going to happen with more than 1 midfield objective. You also don't need it on your backfield objective because you'll normally have at least 1 artillery piece there. Even playing steel legion, I struggle to justify more than 1 or 2 cadian squads when catachans give early pressure and infantry squads give better pillbox chimeras & durability on objectives
Have you ever thought about using the Stumpftarn scheme on the Cloth/fabric with the Forrest green plates? You have the skill to make it "sexy" (Rickety Cricket) and your videos are so thorough and well displayed
I built my Minka as an officer and used the remaining bits, with an extra body. to build the whiteshield version of her. It doesn't look as good as the original model, but it's a great extra model that breaks up the clone look that the Cadians seem to have with these new sculpts.
So fields of fire is the only battle tactic from the gaurd list of strategms, and it doesn't -1AP to the firing unit, it gives it to rest of your army after the firing unit has hit. As an alternative viewpoint, cadians are the worst squad, krieg are more survivable (like you said) and they have the same OC when attached with a platoon command squad. Catachans are cheaper and faster, and infantry squads have bigger guns and are a touch more survivable as well. The sticky objectice rule really only lets you abandon your home objective. And the cadian command squad ability of ignoring modifiers i don't think works on battleshocked OC as it sets your OC to zero. Although you would still get the banner's +1OC.
Thanks for the thoughts on the video. In the FAQ / Designer's Commebtary documents, it does state that changing a charactertic to 0 is a modifier. I'm taking that to mean that the Cadian Command Squad rule can allow for you to ignore that modifier. And I think the sticky objectives can be very valuable if you are an aggressive player and push hard to keep your opponent away from certain objectives. Plus, if you screen the objectives after you capture them, then it's even more effective. Holding an objective without units on them (or after they have battleshocked if not buffed by CCS) and screening that objective so that units coming out of melee can't consolidate on it is a very good way to ensure 5, 10, or even 15 points in matched play. It takes more finesse than just plopping Krieg on an objective and sitting still. Lastly the CCS buff is honestly invaluable, and only the Shock Troops can get that.
@CadianSergeantSteel I will defer to you here in whether a 'set OC to 0 is a modifier or not'. If so that does indeed make the CCS better but in my games I have found that to be mostly irrelevant, having 30 OC or 10 is going to be the same in most circumstances. I've yet to run across any other use for the CCS, no one I play with modifies my stats or dice in such a way as to make that ability usable. The ability to capture and sticky an objective turn 2 is nice, but now you are pushing past that objective with a gaurdsman squad to screen your objective, but that's a suicide mission at best for a 185 point unit, futile at worst. it might delay them from getting to the objective for a turn but you could accomplish the same by having daisy chaining a couple guys back onto the objective. Or having a 10 man follow up onto the objective. I'm not saying you are wrong and the ability is useless, I just think the other infantry options are better. Maybe it is just the games I have played but all the no man's land objectives have been contested every turn. I can never leave one with no models on it or my opponent will take it. Do you often find opponents putting 10+ OC on an objective that you can't easily reduce to let a gaurdsmen squad take it?
I have found several opponents realizing the futility of trying to charge and take an objective from me (without being able to clear the unit in a single round of combat, which some units can do). Sometimes I take 50% casualties, chuckle because I still hold the objective with 42 OC on it after 10 Cadians were destroyed. The other thing I will do is ignore the anti-vehicle units to take out the anti-infantry units to reduce their ability to take away my infantry. The Rogal Dorn is so resilient while also resurrecting Sentinels, it can often work, and then my opponent plays a huge uphill fight to control objectives. For me, I have developed a strategy of list and gameplay tactics that work for the build. But... to be fair, you bring up very valid points, and I have often found myself scratching my head about 1 unit of Krieg and 1 unit of Catachan, BUT... I am saving those thoughts for the videos about those datasheets. And when I do, my intended strategy is to start Cadians within range of the same objectives the Krieg and Catachan have because then I still have sticky objective on those until my opponent physically takes them from me and not just kill my infantry with artillery or other shooting attacks. You have to come and get it. And with my style of gameplay being to aggressively fill the table with bodies, it is often effective already with just Cadians.
@CadianSergeantSteel have you done any battle reports, either live or with pictures? I would like to see that in action. It certainly has merit and I will have to try it at some point. I won't be using cadians but the aggressive push on and past style could be something I'm missing. I definitely agree about rogal dorns and sentinals. They can both be extremely durable units that frustrate your opponent with either survivability or recursion. I look forward to your future videos on the infantry of the gaurd. What is your opinion on running cadians as kreig or infantry squads, or running catachans as cadians, etc...
I do like these Cadians over the older models from 20 years. They have better proportions and greater variety of faces including breather masks. I saw several reviews comparing the older models to the newer models. It was pointed out the hands on the older models looked comically oversized. The heads that were supposed to be screaming looked constipated. But I guess that is the look one would have when facing a giant bug with scythes for arms.
Right on! I completely agree. Having 10 different poses rather only 5 leg and torso poses repeated over and over is a huge improvement, plus the proportions like you mentioned.
"I don't take named characters" What I like to do is take a bog standard character model, customize the paint job, maybe do a little bashing or conversion. Then give them a name and reasons to care about them. Most of my Space Marines have biographies. My not Cadians are slowing getting their's.
I think at 1k, you have to consider 1 or 2 10 man units that run around to tag, take, or hold objectives. At 2k, I think it's beneficial to have 2× 20 man units with officers and then 2x or more 10 man units without.
Not a bad idea bcs of the CCS ability, but i tend to favour overwatch for the 15 scions instead because of the RRs and better weaponry. I preffer cadians with servis.
they are still a great unit but suffer from different things, especialy compared to kriegers: you have 2 less special weapons in your big blob while the voxcaster does basicly nothing, if you include lord solar. the unit ability is also much worse than the kriegers. on top of that, you have a 20% chance, that cadians just don't have an ability at all, if you draw sticky as mission rule. so yes you can have more OC, but kriegers stick around for longer than cadians do, so after 1 round of shooting + maybe close combat, kriegers can keep up with OC because more of them are alive. what cadians do have, is better char support. kriegers only have the marshal + psyker. it is a strong combo, but there is no real options after that. the cadia command is a strong ability and they work well with pretty much any other officer, you add to them. especialy for creed I regulary struggle with finding a good spot without feeling to waste points for a bodyguard. so why not change 1 krieger blob to a cadia blob to put her into good use? a unit with 2 active orders can suddenly keep up much better with the krieg blob.they still die faster but are more versatile in return. finaly on a sidenot: why you disregard plasma weapons so much? they are a straight upgrade to lasguns and you don't have to overcharge them. they also have rapid fire, so they profit from frfsrf as well. it is a srong and versatile weapon vs almsot any target. I never leave home without them
I think I disregard plasma so much because I am salty AF they got rid of Special Weapon Squads without giving them even a Legends option 🤣 I had 3 plasma and 3 melta special weapon squads that just sit on a shelf now because they don't match my regular squads for model aesthetics.
Cadians make very good mechanised infantry. It’s what I tend to run my Steel Legion as. A couple 10 man squads in Chimeras is relatively cheap. They don’t need character support as their main job is to dismount, make an objective sticky, then mount up and continue their push. Plus their special rule works really well even if your opponent blows up their transport on an objective. Catachans I see as our new “Conscripts”. Their scout move makes them an ideal first wave buffer. Krieg are the best objective play infantry as they are just so durable in their big character supported blobs. Infantry squads are decent 3rd line infantry with their heavy weapons and make good bodyguards for our Command Squads and other officers
Every day I watch this video, waiting for my boys and Leman Russ, good video, Sergeant.
Thanks for the great review. It was clear, concise, and to the point. Your content is great for us commanders in the field. Keep up the great work. 👍
Much appreciated! 😁
never considered the battleshock vs Cadian command squad play. Thanks for the tip and Cadia stands!
It really is the most overlooked combo for guard infantry at the moment and very strong. Anytime you can ignore your opponent's abilities that negatively impact you is game changing.
@@CadianSergeantSteel Another you thing you go over in the video people I feel like sleep on is Castellan + Command squad but you max out power fist on all of them (2x in command squad and castellan also rocking one) so you're scary in combat (unless you're going against something like world eaters that can cut you down) + high OC with a lot of bodies & you can retreat & then blast them off the objective if anyone survived the melee.
It's because of your videos that I've decided to do 3 squads this way in my army list. The only difference is that I'm running one of the three as an Infantry Squad with a Platoon Command Squad attached so i can have a heavy weapons team built into the unit. The benefit of cover ability makes them great for sitting on an objective and laying down fire. I've got autocannons and mortars in my collection so I have some options as to how I want to run them.
Glad to hear this 😃 also like the use of Infantry Squads! I need to put mine into a list eventually.
There are also the combat cadians. CCS with double power fist, double plasma pistols and plasmagun instead of the banner (so OC2 only) and Castellan with plasma pistol and power fist and CST with double plasma gives you without being in FRSRF and rapid fire range: 6 Plasma shots and in melee 9 Power Fist Attacks S6 AP-2 D2. So in rapid fire range with FRSRF you gain 12 Plasma shots and after that, you can finish the enemy off in melee, but if that is not enough, you can fall back and shoot to end them rightly.
Good God... you're a maniac. I love it 😆
Don't forget your Ogryn Bodygaurd then :D
Whilst I think cadians are perhaps our weakest battleline unit, I loved the video and your take on the unit. I think cadians suffer from the fact most guard armies have enough bodies to not need sticky objectives, but the improved command squad might be vital vs some local metas. Saying all that, the new models are so nice it's hard not to take them! I like the idea of little 10-mans to sticky things just in case and might try and work some of those in.
Sticky doesnt have much to do with OC tho. Its about having the numbers (msu) and denying access to the zone aka moving cadians to a more forward position to unload all those heavies. 1 sticky unit is kinda a must, if no other battleline that makes them autoinclude.
@@javilo2797 I mean, if you have OC you don't need sticky, which was my point. You're correct that if you're keeping a high line and choking the space to keep your opponent away (and zoned from deepstrike) you can rely on sticky, but it's very rare that's going to happen with more than 1 midfield objective. You also don't need it on your backfield objective because you'll normally have at least 1 artillery piece there. Even playing steel legion, I struggle to justify more than 1 or 2 cadian squads when catachans give early pressure and infantry squads give better pillbox chimeras & durability on objectives
completely agree on your analysis, those were my exact thoughts@@orthanus
Have you ever thought about using the Stumpftarn scheme on the Cloth/fabric with the Forrest green plates? You have the skill to make it "sexy" (Rickety Cricket) and your videos are so thorough and well displayed
Well, thank you! I have not seen this scheme yet but would be interested in learning more about it.
I built my Minka as an officer and used the remaining bits, with an extra body. to build the whiteshield version of her. It doesn't look as good as the original model, but it's a great extra model that breaks up the clone look that the Cadians seem to have with these new sculpts.
So fields of fire is the only battle tactic from the gaurd list of strategms, and it doesn't -1AP to the firing unit, it gives it to rest of your army after the firing unit has hit.
As an alternative viewpoint, cadians are the worst squad, krieg are more survivable (like you said) and they have the same OC when attached with a platoon command squad. Catachans are cheaper and faster, and infantry squads have bigger guns and are a touch more survivable as well. The sticky objectice rule really only lets you abandon your home objective. And the cadian command squad ability of ignoring modifiers i don't think works on battleshocked OC as it sets your OC to zero. Although you would still get the banner's +1OC.
Thanks for the thoughts on the video.
In the FAQ / Designer's Commebtary documents, it does state that changing a charactertic to 0 is a modifier. I'm taking that to mean that the Cadian Command Squad rule can allow for you to ignore that modifier.
And I think the sticky objectives can be very valuable if you are an aggressive player and push hard to keep your opponent away from certain objectives. Plus, if you screen the objectives after you capture them, then it's even more effective. Holding an objective without units on them (or after they have battleshocked if not buffed by CCS) and screening that objective so that units coming out of melee can't consolidate on it is a very good way to ensure 5, 10, or even 15 points in matched play. It takes more finesse than just plopping Krieg on an objective and sitting still. Lastly the CCS buff is honestly invaluable, and only the Shock Troops can get that.
@CadianSergeantSteel I will defer to you here in whether a 'set OC to 0 is a modifier or not'. If so that does indeed make the CCS better but in my games I have found that to be mostly irrelevant, having 30 OC or 10 is going to be the same in most circumstances. I've yet to run across any other use for the CCS, no one I play with modifies my stats or dice in such a way as to make that ability usable.
The ability to capture and sticky an objective turn 2 is nice, but now you are pushing past that objective with a gaurdsman squad to screen your objective, but that's a suicide mission at best for a 185 point unit, futile at worst. it might delay them from getting to the objective for a turn but you could accomplish the same by having daisy chaining a couple guys back onto the objective. Or having a 10 man follow up onto the objective. I'm not saying you are wrong and the ability is useless, I just think the other infantry options are better. Maybe it is just the games I have played but all the no man's land objectives have been contested every turn. I can never leave one with no models on it or my opponent will take it.
Do you often find opponents putting 10+ OC on an objective that you can't easily reduce to let a gaurdsmen squad take it?
I have found several opponents realizing the futility of trying to charge and take an objective from me (without being able to clear the unit in a single round of combat, which some units can do). Sometimes I take 50% casualties, chuckle because I still hold the objective with 42 OC on it after 10 Cadians were destroyed. The other thing I will do is ignore the anti-vehicle units to take out the anti-infantry units to reduce their ability to take away my infantry. The Rogal Dorn is so resilient while also resurrecting Sentinels, it can often work, and then my opponent plays a huge uphill fight to control objectives. For me, I have developed a strategy of list and gameplay tactics that work for the build.
But... to be fair, you bring up very valid points, and I have often found myself scratching my head about 1 unit of Krieg and 1 unit of Catachan,
BUT... I am saving those thoughts for the videos about those datasheets. And when I do, my intended strategy is to start Cadians within range of the same objectives the Krieg and Catachan have because then I still have sticky objective on those until my opponent physically takes them from me and not just kill my infantry with artillery or other shooting attacks. You have to come and get it. And with my style of gameplay being to aggressively fill the table with bodies, it is often effective already with just Cadians.
@CadianSergeantSteel have you done any battle reports, either live or with pictures? I would like to see that in action. It certainly has merit and I will have to try it at some point. I won't be using cadians but the aggressive push on and past style could be something I'm missing.
I definitely agree about rogal dorns and sentinals. They can both be extremely durable units that frustrate your opponent with either survivability or recursion.
I look forward to your future videos on the infantry of the gaurd. What is your opinion on running cadians as kreig or infantry squads, or running catachans as cadians, etc...
With their ability.. cadians dunk on a lot of units in the game
Really nice videos, and the painting is superb.
Thank you so much 😀
I do like these Cadians over the older models from 20 years. They have better proportions and greater variety of faces including breather masks.
I saw several reviews comparing the older models to the newer models. It was pointed out the hands on the older models looked comically oversized. The heads that were supposed to be screaming looked constipated. But I guess that is the look one would have when facing a giant bug with scythes for arms.
Right on! I completely agree. Having 10 different poses rather only 5 leg and torso poses repeated over and over is a huge improvement, plus the proportions like you mentioned.
Different style. Toy soldiers. I respect that🙂
Great review. I strongly recommend the Cadians. If you are running in competitive they are the best infantry choice.
Thanks, Jerry 😁
Thanks for great review. Love your content.
I really appreciate that! Thank you 😃
Great video as always! Cadia stands!!
Glad you like them! 😁 Thanks for watching! CADIA STANDS!
"I don't take named characters"
What I like to do is take a bog standard character model, customize the paint job, maybe do a little bashing or conversion. Then give them a name and reasons to care about them. Most of my Space Marines have biographies. My not Cadians are slowing getting their's.
That's the kind of narrative I love building 😍
My Army is going to be from Space Texas with some Spaniard Scions to back em up. No one expects the spanish inquisition!
In a 1000pt game, I feel like I don’t have the points to add officers to every 20 man squad of infantry :(
I think at 1k, you have to consider 1 or 2 10 man units that run around to tag, take, or hold objectives. At 2k, I think it's beneficial to have 2× 20 man units with officers and then 2x or more 10 man units without.
Just to follow up from my previous response just now, one 20x man unit fully buffed and then 2x 10 man units can still be very effective.
I like to run First Rank Fire, Second Rank fire on my Cadians so I can do shenanigans with Overwatch.
I hadn't even realized it wasn't shooting phase only 😲
Not a bad idea bcs of the CCS ability, but i tend to favour overwatch for the 15 scions instead because of the RRs and better weaponry. I preffer cadians with servis.
do you have a tutorial on painting new cadian shock troops?
Not yet, but I am preparing to film a new one. My process and colors will be the same as my tutorial on the older Cadian models.
@@CadianSergeantSteel I will check it out thank you
czcams.com/video/vmoRlwQSw1w/video.html
This is my worst nightmare
Lots of obsec?
they are still a great unit but suffer from different things, especialy compared to kriegers: you have 2 less special weapons in your big blob while the voxcaster does basicly nothing, if you include lord solar. the unit ability is also much worse than the kriegers. on top of that, you have a 20% chance, that cadians just don't have an ability at all, if you draw sticky as mission rule.
so yes you can have more OC, but kriegers stick around for longer than cadians do, so after 1 round of shooting + maybe close combat, kriegers can keep up with OC because more of them are alive.
what cadians do have, is better char support. kriegers only have the marshal + psyker. it is a strong combo, but there is no real options after that. the cadia command is a strong ability and they work well with pretty much any other officer, you add to them. especialy for creed I regulary struggle with finding a good spot without feeling to waste points for a bodyguard. so why not change 1 krieger blob to a cadia blob to put her into good use? a unit with 2 active orders can suddenly keep up much better with the krieg blob.they still die faster but are more versatile in return.
finaly on a sidenot: why you disregard plasma weapons so much? they are a straight upgrade to lasguns and you don't have to overcharge them. they also have rapid fire, so they profit from frfsrf as well. it is a srong and versatile weapon vs almsot any target. I never leave home without them
I think I disregard plasma so much because I am salty AF they got rid of Special Weapon Squads without giving them even a Legends option 🤣 I had 3 plasma and 3 melta special weapon squads that just sit on a shelf now because they don't match my regular squads for model aesthetics.