I heard both of these speakers and what immediately took my attention on the B&W was the Tweeter and as soon as bright instruments kicked in like brass the speaker turned so brittle that it was a pain and immediately induced listening fatigue. No matter how good mid range and bass were, the exaggerated treble killed it for me. The Martin Logan on the other hand had beautiful voice reproduction and holographic soundstage that went from the speaker backwards in depth. Maybe your experience (like sitting on the piano) was due to the DAC which can also influence the sound being perceived as forward or laid-back. My preference therefore is the electrostat.
I own a pair of ML classic ESL 9 and they definitely have a holographic soundstage and an amazing voice reproduction which is the real strength of the ML. I had a similar experience of my previous ML SL 3 and Sequel 2.
Is the B&W 3 times better? It's probably 10-20% better but for 3 x the price. Problem with audio at this level is you have to double your investment to see less than 10% improvement, but to some it's worth it.
@@dejandavkov bonjour, je possède des b&w 800n série nautilus depuis 15 ans et j'ai également des martin logan esl x acheter 2022 neuf, plus jamais de martin logan à la maison le rendu de qualité de son est à des années lumières des b&w 800n Une catastrophe cette série esl x 🥺🇨🇵
Electrostats are always a double edged sword. To get the best sound, you'll need to contend with some very unwieldy placement. Not everyone can pull out their speakers 4-6 feet from the front wall. And they tend to have a very narrow sweet spot. If you're able not have to deal with significant compromises, the experience can be glorious.
@@ben23a31 I think you proved my point in that not everyone has that ability, with most listeners having to slam their speakers back on the front wall, with just a few inches of clearance, or maybe a foot at best. I may be wrong, but I think Shane only has them about 2 feet away from the wall. In the video, he had to resort to using an absorber behind the panel to reduce the reflections, which creates actually creates that soundstage in a room. Yes, they can sound outstanding, but not everyone can create enough separation from both front and side walls for MLs to sound their best.
Because what they aren't telling you is one is not "better" than the other ....they prefer one sound over the other. I recently demoed both and I think the Logan's are way better for all music types. Audio files have the problem of playing a specific song on different systems and comparing how they sound every system is going to have a song that they may sound better with and another song that may sound better in another system. I have about hours and welcome system and I can tell you the highs are absolutely fabulous however they aren't the best for all music types If you're listening to live or concert music there's nothing better on the planet but if you're listening to a wider genre pop rock etc the Martin Logans perform far better with different types of music then the bowers and Wilkins
Strange to hear that the piano comes from behind you with the MLs. I owned several MLs, I never witnessed that, on the contrary I can even hear higher notes on a piano coming more from the right vs lower notes
love your reviews man, apprecite the time you take. Just curious, will you ever review the new Monolith 16in 2000 watt? I'm thinking of getting it next month.
Martin Logan, B&W, McIntosh, Revel, Focal etc. Everyone knows about these. What about ATI, SENNHEISER etc. I would love to see more content on names that rival the established, but relatively unknown
Amp selection is incredibly important with B&W. Class D is an absolute an absolute no. Rotel 1582mkii and Parasound a51 (my home theater amp) are excellent pairings, I can listen to my 702s2 and 705s2 all day with no fatigue.
That room looks tough to set up . All that stuff between the speakers can be reflective . Also there's a lot of break in time on the MLs .I used to sell and own MLs.
I like your comment, I do simply think that the windows, the reflective walls and maybe the distance does that B&W gets an advantage because it is not sending sound backwards. As an expert, what is your thought about my armchair "expertise" opinion?
Hello Shane! Bumped into you at the Martin Logan event at my dealer, Safe and Sound a short while back! I own the Classic 9's driven by a Parasound A21 and Halo pre paired with the ML 1600X sub. In my 18x24' dedicated listening space, the ESL 9's fill the room without effort. They are 13.5' feet apart, and I sit back 19' from them. They are aimed straight out with no toe in. Many that have stopped by to listen have found the ML's much 'mellower' then they thought for an ESTAT. Also the width of the image at that distance is very wide across the listening area, another surprise for my listening guests. It is FUN and interesting to have the Klipsch Forte' 4's powered by a Willsenton R8 fitted with EL34 outputs sitting next to the 9's. If one wants to blues, jazz, or rock out, they can enjoy more of what you are hearing with the B&W's 'clarity'. I mainly, listen to good ORCHESTRAL recordings via the Classic 9's and the subwoofer with ARC, really digs down for symphonic bass drums and pedal notes of the pipe organ. If you are ever to return to Safe and Sound, for another event, I live close by, would love to have you critique my 'audio showroom' as I call it. 🙂
@@therealshanelee ok very cool. Looking to upgrade my stereo setup and the reference line from SF is on my radar. I remember you had the gravis sub but it malfunctioned which was a shame. Very few reviews out.
I have never been impressed by any Martin Logan or Magnepan speakers. So, in this case, I would absolutely pick the 803 D4 and is not even close. The only non-traditional or alternative tech speakers that I've ever liked or in fact massively impressed by are without doubt MBL, almost any of their models. To me, the omnidirectional tech absolutely wowed me. The soundstaging and stereo-imaging were just amazing.
They are what I’d call mostly subjectivity tests. Only parts that are fact is the gear, wires and if they use sound absorption pads. Other then that it’s opinion. Most other test on other channels focus a lot on stats and charts. There is also something to be said about opinion and subjectivity testing. Both have their own issues
@@stevenoconnor5693 I'm subscribed to your channel, and I always see you and each other doing tests on boxes and amplifiers and movies. and I wonder what you guys do with these speakers and equipment after the video. I live in Brazil and here these equipments are very expensive.
*TYPO AT **13:54** SHOULD SAY ESL 9 NOT ESL X*
czcams.com/video/YxNeY4SzSps/video.html
When the speaker boxes are bigger than Shane you know we are in for a treat
🍩🍪
M.L.'s are a totally unique sound (which are great). Like Maggie's they deliver sound very different than directional/point source box speakers.
Man you’ve got to be the hardest working guy in the business, thanks for another informative review
🍻
I heard both of these speakers and what immediately took my attention on the B&W was the Tweeter and as soon as bright instruments kicked in like brass the speaker turned so brittle that it was a pain and immediately induced listening fatigue. No matter how good mid range and bass were, the exaggerated treble killed it for me. The Martin Logan on the other hand had beautiful voice reproduction and holographic soundstage that went from the speaker backwards in depth. Maybe your experience (like sitting on the piano) was due to the DAC which can also influence the sound being perceived as forward or laid-back. My preference therefore is the electrostat.
I own a pair of ML classic ESL 9 and they definitely have a holographic soundstage and an amazing voice reproduction which is the real strength of the ML. I had a similar experience of my previous ML SL 3 and Sequel 2.
Is the B&W 3 times better? It's probably 10-20% better but for 3 x the price. Problem with audio at this level is you have to double your investment to see less than 10% improvement, but to some it's worth it.
Really looking forward to your video on using the Martin Logans in your home theater.
B&W 800 for me, respect others people's opinions🙂
@@dejandavkov bonjour, je possède des b&w 800n série nautilus depuis 15 ans et j'ai également des martin logan esl x
acheter 2022 neuf, plus jamais de martin logan à la maison le rendu de qualité de son est à des années lumières des b&w 800n
Une catastrophe cette série esl x
🥺🇨🇵
Electrostats are always a double edged sword. To get the best sound, you'll need to contend with some very unwieldy placement. Not everyone can pull out their speakers 4-6 feet from the front wall. And they tend to have a very narrow sweet spot. If you're able not have to deal with significant compromises, the experience can be glorious.
I've owned several pairs. Even 4 in one room and didn't need to pull them more then 3 feet from the wall and they sounded outstanding.
@@ben23a31 I think you proved my point in that not everyone has that ability, with most listeners having to slam their speakers back on the front wall, with just a few inches of clearance, or maybe a foot at best. I may be wrong, but I think Shane only has them about 2 feet away from the wall. In the video, he had to resort to using an absorber behind the panel to reduce the reflections, which creates actually creates that soundstage in a room. Yes, they can sound outstanding, but not everyone can create enough separation from both front and side walls for MLs to sound their best.
@@nonametofame indeed. They aren't for everyone but man if you have the room nothing really sounds like them.
@@ben23a31 100% agree, Ben. I have a pair in storage, and I'm just holding onto them until I get a proper, larger room to do them justice.
@@nonametofame I hear ya dude... Hold on to them by all means necessary lol.
For nearly 3 times the price of the ESL 9s the 803 D4s better have an advantage!
If can, Informative on size of the room, speakers placement and equips and accessories used
Thanks for the video
I was about to say that you need to do more center speaker reviews!
Great content as always 👍
Why Compare $7,000 speakers to $20,000 speakers in two different brands?
Guess you didn't watch till the end.
Mackie C200 has entered the chat.
Because I said so.
Because what they aren't telling you is one is not "better" than the other ....they prefer one sound over the other. I recently demoed both and I think the Logan's are way better for all music types. Audio files have the problem of playing a specific song on different systems and comparing how they sound every system is going to have a song that they may sound better with and another song that may sound better in another system. I have about hours and welcome system and I can tell you the highs are absolutely fabulous however they aren't the best for all music types If you're listening to live or concert music there's nothing better on the planet but if you're listening to a wider genre pop rock etc the Martin Logans perform far better with different types of music then the bowers and Wilkins
Strange to hear that the piano comes from behind you with the MLs. I owned several MLs, I never witnessed that, on the contrary I can even hear higher notes on a piano coming more from the right vs lower notes
The Bowers look really classy I love the look of them
You are comparing apples and oranges you should’ve compared the 11 a .
It’s mentioned in the vid.
The ML(s) should be used with a large cinema room with their monster center speaker.
ML(s) do a great job with cinema atmospherics.
@@therealshanelee guess it was deleted but I did try to show you a article about sound united being purchased.
Onyx. I knew you like the old school east coast hip hop Shane!
Martín logan 🥇
love your reviews man, apprecite the time you take. Just curious, will you ever review the new Monolith 16in 2000 watt? I'm thinking of getting it next month.
Probably not. There’s already tons of reviews out there. From the consensus it’s a great performer and value.
@@therealshanelee Awesome thx man!
Martin Logan, B&W, McIntosh, Revel, Focal etc. Everyone knows about these. What about ATI, SENNHEISER etc. I would love to see more content on names that rival the established, but relatively unknown
For the same price, which would you prefer ? ML13A or B&W 803?
The esl 13a is still around 4,000$ cheaper than the B&W. I think you get a better performance for your money with the Martin Logan
HUGE price difference with this comparison. I enjoyed the review but wouldn't a more fair comparison be with the ESL 9 vs the Bowers 702 Signature?
This is a second part too the first ML vs B&W video we did. So we took it a step further.
Nice job boys
Onyx was made for car audio haha
He is handling the speaker from very top 😂. It is bottom heavy! Careless audiophile
I just wish they would smooth out the 3-6k range on the B&W. Great speaker otherwise but it wears me out. From a former owner of B&W. Using revel now.
Amp selection is incredibly important with B&W. Class D is an absolute an absolute no. Rotel 1582mkii and Parasound a51 (my home theater amp) are excellent pairings, I can listen to my 702s2 and 705s2 all day with no fatigue.
@@RyanZNO I have the Marantz PM-KI (class D) with the 804N and I find it is a fantastic pairing. Never fatiguing, yet detailed.
In a Room the phase switch 90degrees, so you don’t hear it.
If you have a sub, try to set phase to 90 degrees, then you hear it…
Good review! Have you considered reviewing Spatial Audio speakers? I have a pair of Spatial Audio X5 speakers and they are serious!
They do look interesting.
Love my big Logan's in my but it might be time to try some box speakers
hello shane reviews 11a and c18and the 210 subwoofer from martin logan
Are 2 subwoofers really needed to upgrade from 1 subwoofer or does it add nothing to the experience?
2 is always better than 1
@@therealshanelee how did it sound compared to just 1 single subwoofer?
How do the highs and mids on the 803 compare to the 805s? Is it only the base that’s different?
We preferred the D4’s.
Bass!
That room looks tough to set up . All that stuff between the speakers can be reflective . Also there's a lot of break in time on the MLs .I used to sell and own MLs.
I like your comment, I do simply think that the windows, the reflective walls and maybe the distance does that B&W gets an advantage because it is not sending sound backwards. As an expert, what is your thought about my armchair "expertise" opinion?
Hello Shane! Bumped into you at the Martin Logan event at my dealer, Safe and Sound a short while back!
I own the Classic 9's driven by a Parasound A21 and Halo pre paired with the ML 1600X sub. In my 18x24' dedicated listening space, the ESL 9's fill the room without effort.
They are 13.5' feet apart, and I sit back 19' from them. They are aimed straight out with no toe in. Many that have stopped by to listen have found the ML's much 'mellower' then they thought for an ESTAT. Also the width of the image at that distance is very wide across the listening area, another surprise for my listening guests.
It is FUN and interesting to have the Klipsch Forte' 4's powered by a Willsenton R8 fitted with EL34 outputs sitting next to the 9's. If one wants to blues, jazz, or rock out, they can enjoy more of what you are hearing with the B&W's 'clarity'.
I mainly, listen to good ORCHESTRAL recordings via the Classic 9's and the subwoofer with ARC, really digs down for symphonic bass drums and pedal notes of the pipe organ.
If you are ever to return to Safe and Sound, for another event, I live close by, would love to have you critique my 'audio showroom' as I call it. 🙂
We’re these esl 9 set up different from th Martin Logan 13 a?
Great video. Any chance to get your hands on Sonys Faber Il cremonese?:)
It’s possible.
@@therealshanelee ok very cool. Looking to upgrade my stereo setup and the reference line from SF is on my radar. I remember you had the gravis sub but it malfunctioned which was a shame. Very few reviews out.
Man still waiting on your opinion on the C18 Focus
I have never been impressed by any Martin Logan or Magnepan speakers. So, in this case, I would absolutely pick the 803 D4 and is not even close. The only non-traditional or alternative tech speakers that I've ever liked or in fact massively impressed by are without doubt MBL, almost any of their models. To me, the omnidirectional tech absolutely wowed me. The soundstaging and stereo-imaging were just amazing.
What is a great Mcintosh amp for the 803 d4?
MC462
lol just say a 3 way is always better than a 2 way don't dance around the answer hahahah
Crazy expensive....
O quê vc tem de caixas acústicas, com estes testes que vc faz!
They are what I’d call mostly subjectivity tests. Only parts that are fact is the gear, wires and if they use sound absorption pads. Other then that it’s opinion. Most other test on other channels focus a lot on stats and charts. There is also something to be said about opinion and subjectivity testing. Both have their own issues
@@stevenoconnor5693 I'm subscribed to your channel, and I always see you and each other doing tests on boxes and amplifiers and movies. and I wonder what you guys do with these speakers and equipment after the video. I live in Brazil and here these equipments are very expensive.
@@diovanealvesdemoura6370 czcams.com/video/MPZlSWhvLq8/video.html
Why don't you call them bi-polar? I know why...