Does Matt's Off Road Recovery use a TOW BALL in his off road recoveries? What he says about it!
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- čas přidán 7. 05. 2020
- Tow Balls in 4x4 or vehicle recoveries? Matt from Matt's Off Road Recovery explains how he uses his Tri Ball Tow Ball (Hitch) with his off road recoveries.
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Why I DON'T like using Tow Balls and my thoughts on their Dangers in 4x4 Recoveries - • A Tow Ball is NOT an o...
Channel - Matt's Off Road Recovery / @mattsoffroadrecovery
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Matt knows what he is doing. I would trust his experience any day of the week.
Yes he is certainly is a professional at what he does. Unfortunately not everything is understood by the audience.
so what about tuesdays?
I have learned so much from him that I’ve used in off-road vehicle recoveries and pulling my own car out of a ditch last winter.
@@abelzlatkovic65 and bolts do the same, bolts have even less metal than a decent tow ball, of course the ones that shear are just a cheap simple bolt screw in attachment. Yet, as said here, he uses the tow ball on light work, and this is 2 tow balls sharing the load.
Think about where you attach on a car for light towing, it is either a single bolt screwed into a tow point or some suspension component on both sides of the car, which is as low as 1 bolt per side on said suspension component. Equal failure rating as even a cheap 3 point tow ball setup that uses screwed in tow balls (these are welded on fully).
@@sniperlif3 any recovery point that only has one bolt is hardly a rates recovery point tho
If that 3-ball device was done without the centre ball it would be just as effective. And if those balls on the side were just a metal bar through the stem no-one would even blink. But because they're shaped like tow balls (and I admit they probably ARE tow balls in a different life) people get upset. It's the engineering that counts. I think that is a great device.
thanks
Best comment so far. 100% correct.
We live in a day and age where people who've never been further off road than their Subaru Outback suddenly become experts in everything. (or those city slicker "jeepers" that are everywhere) One problem is their local rip you off 4x4 shop feeds you all kinds of crap to get you to buy military grade tank recovery equipment for the simple bottom line-->profit... I've wheeled full sizes(mostly ramchargers) for 25+ years now running both locked/welded diffs on tires no less than 36"-40" and have seriously yanked the FU*# out of these things having NEVER broken a hitch receiver, ball, hook, or shackle. (even a good bumper mounted one in 3/8 plate) I usually weld hooks f/r on my trucks these days. I've broken 2 and 3" straps before, but that's having to yank hard enough to raise the rear wheels on one or BOTH full size trucks complete with a hopped up mopar V8 roar. Another simple thing I see no one ever do for Mattt is have their wheels spinning BEFORE his rope catches. I've also learned to preserve my drivetrain by accelerating hard and then letting off the gas just as the strap catches. That uses the weight of the truck/momentum to yank and see just how freakin stuck they are. Matt has some serious patience to put up with a nearly constant lack of basic mechanical aptitude from the steady stream of keyboard off road recovery experts. However, I am envious of these somewhat new recovery straps that would have saved me years of bouncing off my steering column/windshield when those straps catch...haha
Perfectly worded
You'll notice they're three different sizes as the attachment is used for when he has to recover different types of trailers too. It's a very clever piece of engineering that solves many problems.
I like Matt’s easement of “I’ll decide what will work for a scenario.” Only need to watch one of he’s videos to know he knows how to get the job done and safely.
Yup. He may seem like a simple man, but you can tell that he does a lot of mental math, very quickly. Some of it is inherent, most of it is experience. Above all else, he'll admit (and show) when he gets it wrong, and then adjust.
Wonder if he will use them in Australia!!!???
He is also a professional that has thousands of recoveries under his belt and have insurance associated with his profession. Normal people don’t :/
interesting point
If you've watched enough videos, you would see that when Matt is up against a bad situation he does not use that tri ball, but instead uses the pintle hook on the back. I agree with him that these newer vehicles have nowhere to hook onto and you'd be lucky to see a lower motor mount or even have access to a lower A-arm and with the way these things are built now, there is a real good chance he could rip these cars apart. It would be way more dangerous if Matt was only using a tow strap on that tri ball regardless what he was trying to get unstuck. Matt, keep doing what you are doing and keep those recovery videos rolling!!
bang on
@@MadMatt4WD I’m on your side. Better safe than sorry and especially when you have a huge following and are essentially promoting using a poor/inadequate setup. I could send you a Facebook link to the picture of a scene that happened last week where a 3 ball hitch on that same setup was used for a snatch and the hitch gave, and shot through the driver side window, the drivers chest, and the drivers seat.
@@Jeff4559 that guy died if Im thinking of the same one you are saying…
Why use a pintle hook when there are better options like a forged ring?
@@Jeff4559
That's what happened to my jeep. It was stuck so bad that when my cousin tugged on it, the whole receiver hitch ripped out of the frame and sling shotted across the ground.
I have watched alot of Matt Winders recovery video's. I have also been amazed at the predicaments him and his yellow jeep have gotten people out of.
Amazing what people get up to.
@@MadMatt4WD you're a useless unt
Just found the channel. I live in the Central Oregon Cascades and see lots of people stuck in snow and mud here. MOST of the tow companies employees I have seen are clueless on off highway recovery practices. It is good to listen to a couple of experienced off highway recovery people explain how and why they do their recoveries. Keep the videos coming.
Glad you found us Robert. Thanks for the kind words
We need a reality check guys, does your 4WD have a bolt any where on it bigger then a tow ball? Most receivers are bolted through in about 4 spots with little 10mm bolts into your 2mm frame. Your tow ball is about the strongest thing on your car. If you go the wreckers you will see entire hitches twisted in knots from trailer roll overs with the ball still firmly on.
And yet we're seeing balls and hitches fail and kill people. czcams.com/video/wjv51ovrE30/video.html
MadMatt 4WD well stupid is as stupid does, what I mean by this. It is very common for a human to over look such points and not inspect their equipment or rigs. Depending on the area you live in, the integrity of you tow/recovery point need to be inspected often and replaced as needed. I have seen hitches hallow out from rust, to straight falling off the truck.
+element One of the questions that pops up is how many times can it handle the repeated stress of that. The second is for someone who didn't go through the trouble of getting a dedicated tow point, do they (in case of standard threaded tow balls) check the torque to make sure it's tight? A bolts primary strength is its tensile strength, not shear strength. Bolts used for shear force are often used as a weak link in that capacity. Just some points to consider.
Torsional stress and shear stress are two very different things. Most materials will take far more force in shear than in torsion. Tow hitches also aren’t design with torsional strength in mind, they’re designed for tension and shear (with some bending moment due to the offset of the ball). It’s not surprise that when a trailer flips the hitch fails in a twisted mess while the ball (that was presumably pulling the weight of the rig to begin with) is still in tact, being able to handle the weight of the trailer.
But if your bolt through ball hitch comes from China (the majority used by weekend warriors and not someone in the industry) is likely crappy pot metal compounded by the bolted stem being reduced to 50% diameter at 1"... And it's bolted to a poorly welded drop....
I just recently watched a feature by Colorado 4X4 Rescue and Recovery discussing the tragedy in AZ this past July (R.I.P. Ryan Woods)... Yeah they did a few things wrong but it's a stark reminder just how much force can be transmitted when hitting that rope, and how lethal it can be. After watching that video you can rest assured safety will always be on the front of my mind when it comes to deciding if I'm going to call in the pros or not.
I’m glad to hear the respect in your comment.
Yeah I just watch that too that's why I'm watching this now
Nice one Matt, keep them coming.
Thanks, will do!
Good on you Matt, a very proactive CZcamsr, really listen to your followers
Hope every is well with you and family mate
I appreciate that!
Matt, great videos. I don't do any off roading but I am an expert at getting farm equipment stuck. I learned a whole lot from your videos and love visiting your country. Bob's your uncle.
That makes a lot more sense after watching it, I was confused how you were gonna say that he used a tow ball since I wouldn’t ever think of using one. Although, seeing Matt’s tri-ball and hearing what you had to say it makes sense now.
excellent.
That 3- ball hitch is F-ing STRONG! The way he has that strap connected to it I would bet my life it would never break! My personal 3-ball hitch is rated at 10k pounds for towing obviously but it’s a stout chunk of steel!
Yes it is strong. No doubt.
@@MadMatt4WD But I agree with you on the single ball method...
@Nomen Clature Totally get it
So glad I watch this, been lucky for years. Throwing a recovery strap to someone to hook up themselves. I was told to put a moving blanket over the strap.
Glad to help
Awesome info! Thanks guys. I play in southern Colorado and love all the rescue/recovery techniques I learn from you and Matt.
Glad to help
I feel like it was brushed by kind of quick, so I want to point it out. In your other videos, you talk about a single shear point being one of the most common points of failure with those tow balls. With the 3-point tow ball there and the way he usually uses it, there will be at least two of those tow balls taking the energy - therefore, a double shear. Then, should those fail, the third (top) ball is there to help absorb some of that energy. The welded failure point you would normally find on a drop hitch also does not appear to be present. The rope/strap is still technically not as secure as using a recovery point with a shackle, but I rather doubt that 3-ball is any worse in practice than anything else you could put into a tow hitch, as far as its likelihood to break. Put another way, I'd expect the receiver or the pin to break before the hitch itself does (on most vehicles).
Well said. Personally I would just grab a hitch receiver.
Technically it's not double sheer, but multiple single sheer points. Regardless, you're right in that it's far more robust than a standard drop mount. I actually have that same tri-ball draw bar for my work van. It's pretty stout. You may not be able to tell in the video but it's a solid piece of bar where most drop mounts are hollow and as you noted the balls are welded instead of bolted. I still only use it to tow a trailer but with the eye looped over/around it the way Matt does it's probably not the weak point in the system.
Good points, but he has a pintle hook he uses on the rear, why not just go by another one of those so you have really strong points front and rear. Even if you don't always need that strength, at least its there
@@royalriding1720 I can only speculate. I carry a tri-ball like that in my service van because although I know what size ball I need for my own trailer I may need to tow something else from time to time and this is faster than swapping balls. Maybe Matt carries this for a similar reason?
One important difference with Matt's Triball setup is that there are multiple hooking points. If one ball fails, the rope will stay attached, and thus keep the majority of the energy contained. Recovering off a single tow ball, if that fails, you have a tremendous amount of energy available that is accelerating the broken ball towards the other vehicle.
Also, note how these balls are tapered towards the center tube. That gives them a lot more strength.
I'd still trust this man with anything. Tons of recoveries under his belt and the setup he uses has done him well for a while. Like another comment said, if it was a piece of steel with 3 prongs such as those tow balls, nobody would bat an eye at it.
So long as people understand the difference between a triball and a towball
I like seeing the different perspectives on recovery!
Love Matt's vids seen the pupps there 🤙 there always on TV lol keep on making vids brotha 🤙
Having paid closer attention to Matt's tri-ball, I see some good things -- it's totally straight, and the balls are welded to it rather than bolted. I have a hunch that tri-ball is going to take more abuse than the receiver that's bolted to his front bumper.
I would still prefer a hitch receiver.
Aftermarket Cherokee bumpers are attached to the frame rails on both sides, usually with plate steel tie in plates. Matt's bumper is tied in to both of the frame rails as well as into the bumper. The stock bumper is sheet metal and would rip in half if it was ever used for any type of pull.
Edit: I bet that center point behind the receiver is tied into the cross member on the Jeep and not to the bumper itself.
Welded in place in a foreign country by child labor..
That’s NOT a “normal “tow ball. It’s welded. Tow balls fail when they sheer off at the threads.
Did you watch the linked video?
MadMatt 4WD, No I will go look for it. However I did see the 3 part videos by Ronny Dahl. Really amazing. That’s where I got my knowledge about how they sheer off. Love your work.
MadMatt 4WD , went and look at the link you mentioned, yes I have seen it, that’s how I found out about Ronni’s. Great job. Keep it up. Loving the Matt and Matt team!
All that Ronny Dahl video did was prove how safe tow balls are. They pointed out the ball was loose when it finally broke the first time, after that they precut the stud to get any more to even break. Any time you make a recovery there is a possibility of something to break.
Justin Benjamin, True, they did cut the ball to make the demo easier. Not sure it that proved the “safety” of using the tow ball. However it did demonstrate the violence of when thinks go wrong, what ever the failure.
Thank you for and outstanding video. It was good to see open communication between Matt of USA with Australian Matt. Carry On Gentlemen saving vehicles and lives.
Thank you very much!
I noticed Matt using a pintle hitch for recoveries. I thought he looked so cool slapping the hitch shut after hanging the tow rope on it. I was about to buy a pintle hitch for myself so I could be as cool as Matt.
LOL
Hah! Fancy seeing you with Matt, Casey and the gang. I hope they follow your channel because you and your buddies get into insane situations by comparison. I know of one recovery situation that nearly ended badly, but that was a shackle that broke and not a tow ball. I'd better not say exactly who we are talking about, but one of our engineers, (there's a wee clue there) had been doing some tests with a 20 ton dump truck, and when they finished he went to dump the sand out of the bed, but the silly bugger forgot to open the tailgate and ended up tipping back with the cab waaaay in the air. So one of the fitters went out to pull him down with another dump truck, but the engineer was too scared to climb down from the cab. The fitter used a long steel hawser, so zero stretch and shock absorption, and attached it at each end with a shackle (I don't remember how big the shackles were). He was a crazy bastard we called Black Jack, and I think he must have thought he'd have some fun with the engineer and took off like a mad person, got to the end of the slack, and the cable with part of the shackle sprung back and took out the wind screen in the truck behind. Somehow the engineer survived with nothing worse that some scratches from flying glass and soiled kecks, but he was a quivering wreck for ages afterwards. This was a very long time ago - 1970 (ish)
Yikes
Seeing how he only does this like everyday ...
Except the 4 days I was there. :(
Ended up here right after your newest video, CZcams recommended really knows what they're doing
Also I'd like to point out that his tow hitch doesn't have any curve to it, it's square steel all the way down, and is loaded from the center of it when it's put on like he put it on. It doesn't have the downsides of a hitch
Matt (Winder) has a wealth of experience; trust his methods very much more than someone spouting 'best protocol'
Interesting
Nothing wrong with the tri-ball setup for most recoveries.
I would still prefer a recovery hitch though.
Everythings wrong with using a Ball as a recovery...
@@MadMatt4WD we should go 4wd matey around crescent head or Coffs!!!
Most recovering straps and ropes will fail before a tri ball hitch will if the pull is relatively straight and As Matt said if you are pulling something that has suction force or has an extreme situation such as wedged or extreme angle then you better get some heavy shackles and a 30 K lbs strap involved but this is fairly uncommon so the tri ball and yank um rope work for 90% of recovery
Single ball hitch will not work, but Tri-ball will work because each ball has weight ratings
I trust Matt’s expert advice lol the guy has earned any bit of information he can give out
Hang in there Matt.. you do what you do brother...
Looking at the ball set up you have to notice that there is a direct line of force via the hitch to the frame. There is no drop on the hitch to impose leverage force on it. I think he is safe to use this on his vehicle. The other end is a different story.
I find this a perfect answer to my issues. First is having the correct ball at any given time. It also provides an easy way for pulling someone else or myself out of a simple sticky situation. No, I never plan to recover anyone. I have a tow strap and that's my limit.
ok
I think this discussions interesting! I actually made a video in response to matts original one where I did the physics and used some finite element analysis to look at recovery with a snatch rope and a single towball - the original intention was to prove matt right that its safe. However it turns out its not always so simple. It IS possible to break the tow ball (like you showed in your other video) but in my estimation matt’s jeep would have to be jerking the rope at over 10 mph and the stuck vehicle would have to be hard stuck with no movement.
Anyways, I think the physics (and matts videos) show its safe under 10 mph with a kinetic rope, but never safe with a static rope.
Glad to see the continued discussion and very cool crossover between these channels!
Great comment.
Im glad you put this video out , I seen just 3 months ago 2 different times of straps and links break hitting a vehicle.. sitting watching after I tried to help them out they finally asked for my help even though I was in my CJ7. a log in front of tires wife holding the brake !!! made the guy go swimming into mud hole snatch block to his hitch then to a vehicle in struck them what to do, slow in reverse ( stuck vehicle) while winching 12000lb and far enough back to have only 7 wraps on the drum for strongest pulling of winch. once he started to barely move I had the vehicle start to move forward . boom he was out hardly any strain . about a dozen people clapped on how I did this and amazing it worked.. thank me a lot . a lot of years of recoveries my self. 4 wheeling and schooling of recovery's. CZcams ( you guys) my education also.
So good. well done.
Spot on!
1. Think before you pull.
2. Know what your equipment is rated for and don’t over stress it or the vehicle.
3. I’ve seen a lot of CZcams videos where people just get the kinetic rope out and pull as hard as they can on a vehicle that is really stuck. Not a good way of doing it. Get a shovel or anything you can dig with and dig out as much as possible first to minimise the forces involved. Less risk and easier on the equipment. Recovery boards, three branches or whatever you can get under will help a lot. If you can’t dig, use a high lift jack to get things under the wheels.
4. Throw a jacket or a blanket close to each end to absorb the energy if it breaks. A neat trick I use is bungee cord connected to the rope at each end and to a high point on the vehicle. It keeps tension on the rope when towing and also keeps things from flying if the tow point breaks.
Great comment thanks
I've seen Matt recover on normal tow bars quite hard more than a few times.
Espetially on full size trucks.
ok
MAN he missed the chance to say "Linked down under", that would have been both original and hilarious :D
😂😂😂
Nothing I can say is gonna be better than what this video explains! Right tool for the job!
yep
Matt’s a legend in the tow world out west.
Great video with lots of great points. Keep in mind that the tri-ball hitch is rated to 10,000lbs. Combine it with the progressive pull of yankum rope, you will not see close to 10k pull or come close to the shearing force required to snap the ball off.
I've been using the same setup for over 20 years abd have done as many recoveries with it as Matt does each week, lol.
Yes but why not use a device designed for the job. Why use a crescent wrench when you can use a spanner
The limit is the king pin. That fails before the ball
As a mechanic, fabricator, off roader, for decades..... I use what I got on hand and it hasn't but me to hard. Some failures happened but I always weighed risk vs reward.
That's said....I am now almost a Nurse Practitioner (Doctorate) and have a B.S.N. and M.S.N. and I see many injuries that could have been avoided. I see both sides. Ultimately I think it comes to the individuals specific skillset, knowledge, and good ole fashion luck.
When it comes to recovery, any new knowledge I have yet to obtain in my experience, I confidently follow Matt from Matt's off road recovery. His and his teams reputation and success rate is enough for me. As far as recovery with a tow ball goes, I agree using a single ball under 2" is not a good idea in a dynamic scenario. I have used tow balls for recovery for many years without fail or damage but by scenario only. Only with adjustable steel drop hitches have I done dynamic pulls because of the structural integrity and the quality of the welds of the particular product. I will use a single ball only if it's a 2" or greater and if it's a dead pull. No different then using a strap verses a rope. Yes the integrity of either are far different but the concept the same. You treat them differently as they are and you repect them more and use them appropriately you have a safer outcome. You treat them the same and you will have catastrophic situations. It all about using logic and experience in each situation to get the best and safest outcome. I've used ratchet straps for recovery in 4 ft of snow and only because of the rating of 1. The strap and 2. The amount of force/energy it will take to do the job. If you weave dental floss there is a scenario it can be used as a recovery line and do very well 😉 its all about thinking of all possibilities
Interesting
Love Matt....I want to go get stuck on purpose just to meet him one of these days.
Ha Ha Ha
Great video guys.
Thanks so much!
I've used this way for years wrapping the hitch. say what you want ive broke mine chain and strap never a hitch and ball
Shout out to the never mentioned 5/8" pin holding the tow ball or pintle hook to the hitch ! No matter how big your balls are...it comes down to a 5/8" pin.
I’ve often found , it’s really easy to shoulda woulda things and give my opinion from the comforts of a recliner :)
Lol
Good information Matt, thanks stay safe.😷 😷 😷
Thanks, you too!
I am not an engineer, but how I see this is the load is applied to the 2 outer balls plus the receiver hitch, would it not be better to also loop the rope over the top tow ball to apply the load both backwards and through the 2 outer balls and the receive hitch at the same time ?
Good thinking. Personally I would just use a proper hitch receiver.
The problem with that configuration is that it's entirely dependent on a consistent tension on the rope, which is unrealistic in a recovery situation. Any slack in the line or sideways pull that allows the loop to come off of one of the side tow balls would result in the rope only being looped around the other side ball, because the loop is in front of the top ball.
The way Matt loops the rope on at least allows the top ball to be a backup should the rope come off of one or both of the side balls.
I agree with Mad Matt that this setup is not ideal, but I can see why it's convenient in situations where the rope won't be experiencing a large load.
@@Psyco913 Well said
@@Psyco913 the size of the loop dictates the amount of slack witch would be minimal, so therefore the load would be spread over 3 rather than 2 tow ball's with the receiver hitch as last resort, as for side loads this would also be spread out wider I would believe
@@philipbird77 What I meant about side loading is not that your configuration would be any weaker as far as distributing the load, but that a side load could pull the loop off of the ball on that side.
Remember that this rope is designed to stretch up to 30% of its length, so the loop could very easily be enlarged under load.
This enlarging of the loop doesn't matter much if you have it going through a fully enclosed shackle, but it certainly could come into play if it's just looped over a tow ball or two (or three).
Matt (from USA) has some interesting points. What are your thoughts? If you haven't seen my thoughts on Why I DON'T like using Tow Balls and my thoughts on their Dangers in 4x4 Recoveries please check it out here czcams.com/video/wjv51ovrE30/video.html
also consider subscribing to Matt's Off Road Recovery channel czcams.com/channels/wdVOry0oNF9WIe_3uCfz9Q.html
I personally don't have much experience but my father who worked 25+ years in highway patrol noted that with all the different accidents he had seen with trailers involved over the years he never saw a broken tow ball. It was always bent and broken tow bars and bent trailer draw bars. The only decent accident that I ever saw, my old boss had a head on accident with a light truck in his 80 series whilst towing a car float with a holden panel van loaded on. Huge head on crash that bent the trailer draw bar like a banana and sent everything flying into the fields. No broken ball.
welcome to con air
How much time are you willing to spend to get 100% safe buddy?
Are you in the tow truck game?
Or are you just experienced wheeler?
What’s your preferred method
welcome to con air
“Know” limit
😂😅
You crack me up.
I’m not a tow truck drive as ya think...But I could drive a car round a circuit faster than you I bet, likely a more skilled driver off the pavement too.
Common sense 🤙🤙
welcome to con air
No I gave you a chance to qualify yourself. You threw insults plenty, not that you have slightest clue who you’re talking to but ya didn’t give much reason for your “opinion”
You work in high risk job and safety has no time limit? What kind of industry can tolerate that business model? As far as a high risk environment?
You have a problem with the guys technique but it is nothing more than an asshole sitting a bar spitting nonsense opinion. You’re no expert nor even amateur in skill so what exactly do you bring to the table?
Many times the alternative to using the tow ball (and the threepointed monster is not your average tow hook either) is dismantling the vehicle or getting a crane there, if the army engineers can spare a tracked crane.
And that might be more damage to the environment and still not be very safe and in any case will to more damage to the stranded vehicle
Think of tow hook recovery as a butchers knife: it is a very dangerous tool if used without the proper safety measures and know-how.
Good discussion. All depends on the application and the circumstances involved 💯💯
Yeah
I'm watching this after seeing the videos of the guy that got killed in the f250 when the pulling trucks rear hitch broke and came through the windshield.
Unfortunately we have rules for the lowest common denominator. People like this guy can assess the situation with years of experience. In Australia we build recovery points for 19 year olds with monster flat hats bogged in the beach still in 2wd....the lowest common denominator..
Good point
I feel like the men that criticize practices like this, are the same men that believe there is a wrong way to turn a crecent wrench.
Awesome background. I want to get back to Moab !!
Me two
Glad to see Max and Lady wander through the shoot
They were making sure we were up to scratch.
I Believe its all about thinking first then doing for every recovery.
Amen!
Totally
Exactly! Put the brain in gear before risking an accident........that refers back to the part between your ears is the best piece of safety equipment there is........kinda like 'think before jumping', lol
That "tow ball" will rip a Toyota or Jeep in half before it breaks.
Matts Triball connection will but a towball may not.
The fact you boys missed that that tri hitch has welded on balls and not bolted on would have been a fantastic point to cross.
Those welded on balls are much stronger than a bolted ball on a receiver. Making that Tri 3 point receiver ball much more robust aspecially when using the strap style that puts load on all 3 balls.
“Think about what you’re doing”
Great advice.
I live in Houston and work in aerospace with NASA. “Think 5” is a safety mantra.
Think about what you’re doing. What things can go wrong? What’s the worst that could happen? Can risks be eliminated? If no, can they be mitigated?
In short... take a beer 🍺 to consider the situation before Sending It!
I like that
How dare you put stuff on the hood of Jail Bird? Just don't trust that front bumper!
Ha Ha Ha. Did you weld it?
I find this actually quite interesting 1) that were all "Matt", but 2) I use a similar method frequently. I watch many a towing/recovery videos.
It's not because I'm in the business of it, but I'm a farmer & frequently get stuck with tractors or other pieces of equipment. Watching recovery "experts" really helps me get ideas for how to get unstuck easier... Which includes using proper tools.
Anyway, I've done a chain or tow strap (got to get me one of those recovery ropes) around my tri-ball hitch many times!
Make sure you get a rope rated for your machines and a good hitch to connect with.
I agree with many on here, Matt knows what he's doing. There are many times he barely tugs on that rope, he just eases out. Keep kicking A Matt!
MadMatt is right and he does a great job of correcting Matt's Off Road Recovery on how to properly use a tow ball and actually how to tow.
And he will always take the time to explain things to his viewers to where everyone knows why it was don't that was and he makes it make since
He is a natural engineer, intrinsically knows, within limits, what will work and what wont.
It is interesting to see that MadMatt's video is talking about stock balls bolting through a drop hitch which is a single shear point, while Matt from Winder is using a Solid Welded Triball on a 2x2 metal bar which is a double shear and balanced forces.
It's all about finding the weakest link in the system and designing a safe pull with that in mind.
I have trusted Triball hitches for rope and chain pulling for years.
I still advocate using the best tool for a job
@@MadMatt4WD The term "best tool" is subjective.
If you only pull one vehicle out per month, versus multiple pulls for multiple vehicles per day, opening and closing shackles for repositioning costs time, and time is money.
But we should all advocate for the safest possible solution and the best quality gear we can afford.
As good as we may think we are at dragging our buddies out of the mud and sand, without the years of everyday experience that Matt at Winder has, the weakest link in any non-professional system will probably be the thing that we didn't realize was part of the system at all.
Immediately thought of this video after watching your most recent one about the tragic incident. I think the key here is that people who know what they’re doing can do this safely. But people who are not experts, like myself, need to understand that we are not experts. Therefore, for people like me, we should always use the proper recommended gear that has extra safety margins built-in. That may not be the fastest or the cheapest way of doing it, but since this is something I may only have to do a couple times in my life versus every day like Matt, it’s better to take my time and do it as safely as possible. I would never have known not to do a recovery from a tow ball, that doesn’t make me stupid. But I would be stupid if I didn’t learn from others mistakes.
Excellent comment. I think though as experts we have a responsibility to our audience to demonstrate good procedure. It’s not always possible and sometimes the subilties are not understood. A 10 minute video can only do so much.
I think what Ronny Dahl was trying to imply when he did the tests is to show a failing, end of life, non stretchable, and/or an older kinetic rope (a static strap for the purpose of demonstrating the worst case) is possible and to never hook to a tow ball for that 'just in case' moment. For someone like Matt, he goes through his equipment and rotates out defective and old gear allowing him to use such techniques just fine. The common person having to use a recovery kinetic rope might have the strap stored deep in the vehicle and for it to be not used for a great length of time; so the condition is more unknown and it may act more as a stiff static strap when the time to recover does happen. An old rubber band is less likely to stretch than a new one. This is the same reason why old tires that are not driven on are also dangerous as they have dry rotted and become stiffer. Its also the same reasoning why hard hats should be replaced every few years. Plastics, rubber and material just degrade over time. Is it good advice to always use stronger and/or multiple attachments than weaker ones, yeah sure. Also, Matt having a vehicle as light as possible while as powerful as necessary, not only to stay on top of the sand, but it helps avoid the huge kinetic inertia that is able to be built up when using a kinetic rope so the jerky motion of towing is avoided reducing his risk even further. His vehicle having those modified drive train, differentials,...etc makes his vehicle act as much as a tractor as possible. That is why we sometimes see him have to take several tries to get people unstuck. All the power doesn't help if he isn't able to deliver it to the ground. His vehicle is still heavy, but it is not overloaded with camping gear, overland gear...etc during the rescue tugs. He even goes to emptying his vehicle when he plans for a 2 day or more rescue before actually pulling someone out. It is about avoiding being at the limits and avoiding going beyond the limits of stretch when using the kinetic rope. Once your past the stretch limit, the strap is in danger of breaking or becoming more like a static rope and that is where the tow ball 'issue' comes in. For those that say Ronny has modified the tow ball by cutting it before pulling it, material science dictates a compression and extension side of a force acted on a lever (tow ball). The side with the extension shows separation and the side with compression initially is unevenly broken at failure resulting in a tow ball failure and an 'even line' shown in Ronnys' video at 13:04. The steel atom start to separate, mode 1 tensile fracture, reducing the effective diameter of the tow ball to a point such that once enough atoms have separated catastrophic failure occurs shearing off the tow ball unevenly, roughly half way in this case, on the side that was initially under compression. Mode 1 tensile failure is a clean break hence why it looks shiny and 'cut'. The tow ball is undergoing a bending force test of sorts during a static tow tug. Instead of receiving the force over time, the force is applied all at once in a moment of time.
We all know F=MxA. A running start static strap tow takes the mass of a vehicle and when the strap reaches a point of no slack, the strap tries to decelerate the vehicle in essentially zero amount of time as there is no give in the rope, which creates a huge amount of force. Lets take a lightweight 3,000lb vehicle, typical sedan, traveling at 5mph towing with a static strap on a class III hitch rated for 6,000lb. Lets say once the strap is taught the car goes from 5mph to 0mph takes 0.5sec (very generous). Accel=dV/dT, 5mph/0.5sec= -10ft/s2. F=ma, 3000lb*10ft/s2= 4923220lbf. Pound force, lbf, does not equal pounds. Lbf converted to pound mass, lbm or lb is what we are looking for. 1lbf=32.174lbm x 1ft/s2. Converting 4923220lbf to 153,018 lbm. So 153,018 lbm or lb is around 25x greater than 6,000lb tow rating. That is the basic rough math. Due to the vehicle not sustaining the force, because it stops, and the rough estimation does not account for steels elasticity properties the tow ball is able to take some abuse as it took Ronny several tries to have a ball shear off.
Thanks for the input
@@MadMatt4WD I am not an offroader by any means. After watching your "tow ball is not an option" video after I wrote this, it seems like I'm kinda on track with the same premise. I didn't even talk about the receiver and shear 'single vs double' being a mode of failure, as I was focusing on just the tow ball itself assuming the hitch itself would withstand the force. I agree with you on having double shear aspect. I have a Titan and I know someday I will have to utilize my knowledge and truck so I am trying to learn before the time to get myself or someone else unstuck. What are your thoughts on this? I welcome criticism in order to better science. :)
Good video. To add a little. With a single tow ball, when the ball comes off the strap is pulling it with it. With the tri-ball if one ball comes off there are still two more balls holding the strap and the ball that comes off will only fly a few feet at most because not as much energy was transferred to the broken ball.
With that said, with the way Matt puts the strap over the tri-ball one of the side balls would come off first from the upward pressure applied by the strap. This would pop the ball upward. If Matt flipped the tri-ball over so the middle ball is pointing down and the recovery strap is going over the top of the side balls then if one of the side balls came off it would be thrown down instead of up. Sorta like the old adage "hook up" so that if the winch hook comes off it goes down, instead of up.
Or just use a hitch receiver
@@MadMatt4WD Yep, I like Matt's use of pintle hitches too. I'm not sure which is a better recovery point a bow shackle mount or a pintle hitch. I'm in the U.S. as well, but east coast and not much off road experience. Was just offering my observations and thoughts in my other comment.
Fair enough, it's all about risk management, and if you're doing recoveries as often as he is, you're bound to have a decent awareness of the forces involved, how they're applied and where, so you'd be able to rig up to suit.
Casual off roaders though, should always try to use the strongest items available combined with the least amount of force required, unless you're on a tidal flat, you have something that he doesn't, time, so you should use that to your benefit.
Nice
Ok I understand to not use a small towvall to pull something very heavy very stuck but if there is no tow hook, what do you use??? As for small vehicles and atv is it safe to use a good tow ball?
Watch my video on not using a tow ball and I explain the problems.
I did buy the 27000 pound yankem rope and it came with soft shackle.it appears to be quite smaller in size I was just wondering what the pulll rateing was on that?
you would have to ask Yankum. The Factor 55 gear has it's ratings written on it.
I'm glad this subject has come up, I use a similar technique on a standard ball and hitch, I pass the eye over the the hitch so it is behind the ball, I then place the right side of the eye over the left side of the ball and the left side of the eye over the right side of the ball, it should look like a slightly distorted figure of 8. I believe this is a safe way of using a Ball and hitch for recoveries, all of the force is applied to the hitch not the ball. If you are worried about the it popping over the ball, a couple of wraps of tape or lashing where it crosses behind the ball will keep it secure.
Better of just using the right gear.
@@MadMatt4WD yeah, I watched your video on the hitch separating and killing the bloke, it certainly gives one food for thought, but that was unusual circumstances, the use of such a long drop hitch, I'm lead to believe it was 11 inches not 8, but I have not confirmed that yet, and not using a snatch strap, then there is the question, how many times did he hit it, and how fast and what was his run up? I have to concede you are correct in saying the best and safest option is to buy the right gear, but it's pretty hard to justify paying $150 to $250 for something that gets very little use. While I was writing this reply I come to the conclusion, seeing as I'm a welder I can make one from an old hitch, that way I'm using the right gear and it will only cost a few dollars. I'm glad we had this interaction, cheers.
@@Ronhickmott I’m glad we had this chat as well. The trouble is this type of failure is not at all uncommon. Read the comments below. I get the $ this but if I said buy this pill for $250 it’ll save your life. You’d buy it thinking it’s cheap. The reason it’s expensive is because it’s tested to be suitable.
The best thing there is the hitch receiver ON THE FRONT of the jeep. some four by bumpers look tough but if pulled on hard enough will fail.
I was a welder of 40 years, fabrication and structural. Something that's not brought up is on Matts three way ball setup the balls are welded on and not bolted. When welded on properly they have much higher shear strength than a bolted ball.
Correct. The tribal although not ideal is strong enough for the job. As I say in the video the load is not on a single ball.
Matt's tow balls, receiver hitch also does not have a Weld, reduces failure point. Straight pull.
good point
The 3 towball attachment will safely hold a tow strap. A single towball is a NO. I do like the pintle hitch attachment Matt uses on his Jeep to loop the tow straps onto. It's quick, easy and safe. Great video!!
Thanks for sharing!
Great use he knows what he is doing
yes Matt does
I’m lucky enough to work for a company that does annual rigging equipment inspections and they allow me to bring all of my equipment in for inspections at that time. I noticed over the last 15 years that many people don’t even take the time to inspect their equipment before and after use which to me is mandatory at this point.
That’s a video I should do
@@MadMatt4WD I think it would be a great idea, I don’t know how many people understand how to properly inspect their equipment but in my experience, it is very few.
There was an interesting one at a company I visited where there was a mandatory ‘thinking time’ before they did a job.
WOW
@@MadMatt4WD I know right, what a good idea. No steaming in and then guessing. Perfect for 4x4 :o) But not a bad thing for anything from shopping to putting up shelves.
I worked for a 3rd party company doing service/repairs on cranes for the offshore industry. Safety meeting mandatory each morning. Also a JSA form (job safety accessment) be filled out before each specified task could commence. Basically, it required use of brain before just jumping into a repair. Safety is priority in the offshore industry. Everything is so specific.....lol
@@jamesmoore3346 you need eyes in the back of your head on those :o) I designed heat exchangers for Zone2. Interesting stuff. The paperwork took longer than the builds :D
The Tri-ball is a great way to hook a strap to, no sharp edges and it HIGHLY HIGHLY UNLIKELY to slip off while jerking or pulling on it, AND the 3 balls are welded on the hitch, I grew up on a farm and have used this tri-ball hitch to pull loaded grain trucks out, large tractors and trucks hooked to cattle and flatbed gooseneck trailers out of some damn hard areas not to mention that as a young man I was a regular at the local mud flats every weekend and NEVER has my tri-ball ever failed me and I still use the same one today.
Matt is a EXPERT and if it’s good enough for him it’s perfect for me!!
sure it works but a devise designed fro the job is always best.
What's your thoughts on removing the receiver. Than sliding the tow strap into the hitch. Than putting the hitch pin threw the tow strap.
Id prefer this over a towball and would use it in an emergency with caution this can be done. There is some concern about it getting cut if pulling at an angle. Also the radius of the strap on the pin is a tad tight which is not ideal.
Always on the ball.
Love the passion. Keep up the good work Matt.
Thanks! Will do!
You can also do a figure 8 over your tounge just behind the ball that is safe and effective
Yes
Is the 3 ball hitch made solid stock and are the balls welded to the hitch?
Yes it is.
Awesome video! My two favorite Matts in the same place!
Awww feeling the love
The week link is the pin that holds whatever is used into the receiver .
How do you know that?
Have you ever put the end of the strap straight into an empty hitch receiver then put a pin through it?
my thoughts. madmatt4wd.com.au/2014/02/02/a-poll-for-you-is-a-hitch-pin-safe-as-a-recovery-point/
I use my tow ball all the time for pulling things like brush with my pickup. I only use balls turned from steel with a shank for a nut. I don't use the balls that are threaded on the inside and I don't know if they're even sold anymore. Even if a ball would break, it would be going toward what I am pulling, not toward my vehicle. If I do pull an occupied vehicle with or by a tow ball, I put a moving blanket over the ball. To me, the weak point in the 2 inch receiver hitch is the 5/8 inch diameter pin holding it in. Shear that off and you have a heavier piece launching. I suspect the problems with balls might have come from the balls that use a bolt that threads in from the bottom or the ones that had a carriage bolt that went from the top all of the way through a cast iron ball.
The 5/8 pin is in double shear and isn't know to fail. I'm sure it's possible though.
Matt's the man !
Fast forward 2 years from then, and someone has paid with their life on a silly excursion through the mud. I was almost that guy about 10 years ago when I was trying to be pulled out from the mud with a chain. I don't remember where the chain broke but it ended up in my windshield of my 1980 k10 pickup truck. Thankfully the windshield absorbed the impact, but unfortunately that didn't happen for the latest guy in your latest video. Such an unfortunate event, and I feel so sorry for the family left without a father.
This is a really good video. Not everything's black and white. A lot of situations are not ideal, and one's toolbox may not have the ideal equipment to deal with any given situation.
As Dirty Harry once said, "A man's gotta know his limitations" and the implication is to work within those limitations, with a plan ready to go in the event one exceeds them and causes something to fail in order to prevent making the situation even worse or hurting someone unintentionally.
Yes
I use a pintle hitch. The one i tryst most uses a pin so its fast and easy to hook up
The Pintle is good system.
What about using the 2 inch receiver pin ?? Is that ok
As a last resort it is
Funny story. About 10-12 years ago, I had a lifted F150 with 37s, geared. Detroit rear end, Eaton e-locker in the front.
Went to pull a guy out that was burried up the doors. Suspension was completed sagged out, sitting on the frame.
I let him hook up to my recovery point on the year... I backed right up to his tailgate and floored it... Probably about 8 times until the truck came out.
Little did I know he hooked the rope up with an even smaller dinky little shackle like matt's holding, to the place where you put the chains on your hitch. I have ZERO idea how nothing snapped and went flying through either of our truck. Lmao.
I got out to unhook it and saw what he used and was like duuude what the ffffuuudge is this?! Lol
Wow Glad no one was hurt
Can you tow someone a short distance on road with a recovery hitch (shackel recviver) and a tow strap?
100% you can it’s the same force as towing a trailer.
From what I've seen its always the shank that breaks, that particular hitch has welded balls. Secondly from actual first hand experience it's the leverage using the shoulder of the ball as a fulcrum pulling on the ball's shank that makes it fail. I've had one almost fail pulling a skid-steer out with a plow truck and it was the shoulder of the ball that pulled up on and stretched the shank (fortunately not to failure). After the ball was loose on the drawbar and I know the nut hadn't loosened as it was seized in place by rust, I actually had to cut that ball off to get a better look.
Correct
Back in the 70s all we had to tow cars with was chains and they would slam if you didn't keep them tight I don't know if I was the first to discover the trucker strap, (you will see them on the side of the freeway occasionally, when I do I stop and grab them up) but when I first used one, I was overjoyed, sometimes necessity dictates you use what you have and I happened to have one I tied knots on both ends to the frame rails, I couldn't believe it ,no teeth rattling bumper ripping slam you would get from a chain, just a gentle tug and it wouldn't break, so I would tell anyone that would listen to me to use one and how great they were
me and my brother towed a car on LA freeways 60 miles with no problems at all, I still will keep one rolled up in my trunk of my car in case I need to tow someone or be towed.
Thanks for sharing
Something that has not been mention (or i missed it) about Matt's T-tow ball is how it could break in the event of a failure.
If it were to snap, 1 or both balls would shoot upward and never directly go to the car at a possible deadly angle, and it's only because the tension on the side balls is coming from underneath, see 2:22.
Matt's use of those tow ball is much safer than if the rope were to be hook with this tow ball: 0:55
Yes your right. I do think this is a strong enough hook on but I do think there’s better solutions
Thank for still replying to everyone even after 6months ! :)
And yes you are right, there's def better achor type!