FX Hybrid Slugs v Hades v Diabolo
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- čas přidán 23. 08. 2024
- FX Hybrid slugs v Hades v Diabolo
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Excellent video, as always.
And now for the rest of the story...
One thing that people seem to forget regarding pellets vs slugs is shedding velocity and power is a function of drag stabilization. Properly applied, pellets are better in any instance where background is a concern, such as pesting near/on/in buildings. Bullets on the other hand do not have drag like pellets, and will travel significantly further retaining higher velocity and energy. For example, the lowly .22lr (40 gr, 107 ft-lbs) can hit a target at 500 m still travelling at over 600 fps. An 18gr .22 pellet on the other hand has a significantly worse ballistic coefficient and can only maintain 600 fps at 90 m. I want people understand this will change the flight characteristics of airgun projectiles, and will potentially cause unintended consequences.
Also, sub 12 ft-lb airguns will probably need some barrel redesign to shoot slugs properly, unless manufacturers go the route of making the projectiles smaller diameter than the bore and adding a "rifling band" near the center of gravity to limit rifling contact with the projectile. Otherwise, the barrels will need shallower rifling to reduce barrel friction, and require a faster rifling twist rate to stabilize slugs at lower velocities. The potential problem is the twist rate will be too fast for pellets.
Finally, slugs are hard to load because, unlike cartridge firearms, airguns actually seat the projectile in the rifling prior to the shot. Airguns are more like a black powder muzzle loading rifles in the sense the projectile must be engraved with the rifling when seating it. Pellets are only engraved on very narrow portions of the head and skirt. Slugs are engraved over a substantial portion of the projectile's body.
If you made it all the way to the end, thank you for you time.
I made it to the end, and was fascinated (genuinely) by what you said. I've been shooting vermin on the farm with rimfires but decided to get a sub 12 for squirrels and rats, as I begrudge a squirrel the cost of a bullet. As you do, I descended into the world of CZcams, and ballistics. Crikey! I never knew there was that much to airgun ammo, but what I've learnt goes a long way to explaining my failures in the past. Mind you, things appear to have moved on a bit...
A tutorial on removing a stuck pellet would be useful to a lot of us, it's not happened yet, but some do's and don'ts would save a lot of frustration if it ever does.
engineeredlifeform I tried a hybrid when they first came out. I wanted to try them out of my sub 12 air arms s200. It took some real effort to load the hybrid,,, really had to push on the cocking bolt! I thought uh-oh! Well, as you can guess, there was a pfffft sound but no exit of the slug 🥺. I took my magazine out of rifle. I tried to shoot it out again,,, nope,,, same pffft. Now to get it out. I have some fibreglass push rods that I brought from aldi on one of their specials deal. The screw heads fall off whenever you actually try to use them as intended 🤦♂️. Anyway, without the heads on them, they fit down a .22 barrel nicely 👏👍. With a little (little) bit of a tap/ram, the hybrid pushed easily back up and out of the breach 👏👏👏👏👏👏. I’ve still got the hybrid here with its rifling marks on it 🤣. So if you try them, you can easily remove them using fibreglass pushrods without the end bits on. 😉
@@thedeester100 "When pellets are stuck push from the muzzle end back into an open breach."
Unless you have direct access to the breech, in which case, push it out of the muzzle.
Fx mk 2 x twist 7.5 pounds sub 12 holds good energy at 30 yards watch the groups and spaghetti tin 🥫👀
I bought a thin brass rod at Lowe’s (US) that. Use for my .177 guns. Both for cleaning and removing the occasional stuck pellet.
I agree. When this first happened I was in a panic. I fact, I had 9 impacted pellets!! Advice on how to avoid impaction and simple removal techniques ( I think I now know both) would be a great video.
Not everyone can remember numbers like you can. A list comparing them would really help. Love your vids!
Content 10/10
Usefulness 10/10
Delivery 10/10
and
*Camera Work/Edits 10/10
Congratulations
Nuff said
Good, well thought out article. Very interesting . This has dispelled much about the slugs as well as scientifically proving how and what they should be used in.
Another brilliant video! i can honestly say - everyone of your videos are packed with useful information and entertaining to watch. Keep up the good work Andy lad 👍
I always love how so you are when you examine rifles or pellets I find it amazing not too many people put that time and effort for not to gain but we sure do game off of your knowledge and research thank you very much
Great review thanks. Stopped alot of sub 12ft barrels being jammed no doubt.
Thanks for the review. Its the first review I've seen that mentions slugs in a 12ft.lb rifle. At least now I know not to bother!
Best comparison review ever on this topic. You cover the very things that matter to us in such a classy and entertaining manner... Thank you!
Check out www.vector-air.co.uk and www.aar-onair.com and follow us on facebook.com/andyairgunreviews
Thanks for the reviews. Can you tell me what scope you have on the rifle ? Thanks
Very good review Andy, it’s great to get a genuinely helpful comparison rather than the other channels giving promos which really do not help give clarity!
Glad it was helpful! thanks for your feedback. Stay safe. Andy
Andy, another great video brother. I always enjoy your content and the way you present the information.
This one was of particular interest as I have only just started using the JSB Hades after months of the Diablo Jumbo heavy"s. I have been watching to progress of the FX hybrid slugs and was keen to try them out, but as I have seen from this it might not be the most cost effective method for pest control. As last night at one of my permissions I accounted for 55 Pigeon and 155 rats, if I was using the hybrids and not the Hades I would be broke by now. That being said I can see the usefulness of the hybrids if you were shooting at far larger distances that what I require at most of my permissions.
I think they will find a way into my arsenal once available here in Australia but until then the Hades are my go to hunting pellet.
Stay safe and keep the video coming.
Greetings from Oregon,,, Thanks for another great video. I am in the process of doing these same tests in my new Hatsan Bullboss in .25 with the addition of the H&N Grizzly slug to see if a more budget slug might be just as good.
Hi Andy ,some very useful data and information in this video which has convinced me to not waist money on trying the slugs and stick with my usual JSB pellets.Thanks and stay safe & well👍
Excellent call Brent and data esp the downrange power ratings
Excellent as always Andy!
Lots to read about slugs et. al.currently, but seeing actual results in a practical and realistic test, speaks volumes.
Realistically, slugs have to be for FAC only.
I use Bisley Magnums in .177 through my Huntsman Regal and they work perfectly. However, putting .22 Bisley Mags through my Huntsman Classic was a disaster!! (Shotgun patterns at 25 yards and 8.3 Ft/lbs ME.)
My usual .22 (Daystate) Rangemaster Sovereigns, gives 8-10 mm groups at 35 yds, and ME of 11.4 ft/lbs.
Horses for courses!!
I'm sure your review will save an awful lot of curious shooters a good few shekels - And a lot of time!
Great stuff matey.
Using H&N grizzlies at 50 yards I’m impressed with its accuracy and maintained energy. I love pellets. But depending what I’m hunting, I’ll stick to slugs.
Well Done Andy, Yet again a great BS free video that helps everyone involved.
Do you know Ronnie?
Still in awe that this 17 inch barrel pushed these 22 grain slugs at such fps I have high hopes for my Crown coming in this week. Hoping to get them above 900 fps average but with equal or maybe even better accuracy.
I have a Daystate Huntsman Regal .22 cal. I use the smaller diameter FX slugs and they work great... Same with the H&N's, and NSA's "Nielsen Specialty Ammo". Again the Daystate prefers the .2165-.217 diameter. 17.5 grains to 21 grains. I like the accuracy and the retained energy down range. The Hades are nasty, great expansion. I did not have high expectations for the slugs, because the Huntsman is not considered a "powerful" gun. But I am very happy it really likes all of the above mentioned slugs. And those Hades...Even my Air Arms Tx-200 likes the NSA and H&N slugs.
I've bought some Hades in .22 and .177 for testing, I can't wait for my RFD/range to open so I can get some shooting done. Great review by the way.
Hopefully when the new wears out on the slugs and other manufacturers start production the price will come down. Thanks for video and the great information.
Great review as usual. I now know not to waste my money trying these. Its Diablos for me for target and plinking. I have started using Hades for hunting..
Interesting review. I tried these slugs in my FAC Huntsman Regal rated at 30 ft lb. Very tight fit in the breach. First five shots averaged 22.358 ft lb @ 676 fps with a max deviation of 30 fps. I then sprayed a bit of WD40 on some kitchen paper and rolled each slug on it before loading. Next five averaged 23.962 ft lb @ 699.2 fps max deviation 15 fps. By contrast I fired 5 AA 18gr pellets, these averaged 28.434 ft lb @ 843 fps max deviation 4 fps. Accuracy of the slugs was pretty good but it would seem that barrel friction is robbing them of some power. I'm going to experiment with some custom sizing dies that will reduce the diameter of the slug whilst leaving a slightly larger skirt. These things could be the future.
Very unsurprising that the slugs performed best out of the FAC rifle to me, they’re ballistically more efficient in every way compared to the hades. The test showed that with accuracy and in the ballistic gel. Great video, very informative
I was devasted when the first shot got stuck up the barrel (fx verminator). Switched rifle (game phox) and they worked but sadly no expansion on 12ftlb. 95 of them left if any buyers out there lol. Great show Andy
Excellent test Andy. I have a Fac Regal pusing 29 ft , so might purchase some of these hybrids slugs. I use Hades for my Fx Mk11 and Hw110. Cracking pallets
Yet another analytical triumph! Great viewing.
There's good news for .177 sub 12ft air gun fans.
A company named 'Precision Ballistics' have introduced a hollow point 10.6 gr slug to suit .177.
they've named it the 'Mako'
Let's have a review Andy. 👍
correction 10.5gr (£12 x 100)
Gotta love hollwpoint expanding slugs. New fx hybrid 25s do not expand like the 22s.
What a super detailed video. Very informative. Cheers from sunny Florida
Just what I needed to see, for my FAC. Happy Days, a clear & straight forward review, as always. 😎
Top Draw Andy 👍
Great video! I wonder if it's worth getting the slugs for target practice too, as they clearly are more accurate in FAC than diablo pellets.
Thanks Andy , yet another good, informative review . I would like some 18.4 grain 'Hades', but too much to ask I suppose.
Cheers Andy. Great review! Hope the AAR family are safe and well. I notice that you've not reviewed a Hatsan AT44. It's an older air rifle but one of my faves!
Nice review as ever, might have to give those Hades a try.
I’ve been using the hades for about 2 months now after watching another video by aar-on air and wow the hades really are a fantastic pellets I use them as my go to hunting pellet, rabbits at 30m+ are no match, I even set my scopes up at 20m with my 35ft/lb rws and went after rats and wow they just explode
A lot of
Has anyone tried them in an HW 100 bull pup? Sub 12ft
Would you use Hades for just target work, if yes, does it improve accuracy ? Cheerd
@@markkeen7168 in my opinion, trying any pellet/slug heavier than 16 grains from a sub 12 ft/lb rifle won't make much sense, even if they do happen to fire from your rifle at that power level they won't perform as intended as they'll be traveling too slow to open up and transfer that energy into your quarry.
Nice testing job. Thanks
Very interesting as I have a Daystate Air Ranger in 40ftlb so may give them a go
I have this gun and the H&N 21 gr 217 slugs work very well in it. The NSA 17 & 20 grain 217 slugs also work very well in it.
These are just too heavy for Sub12 but the high BC makes them fantastic at longer ranges compared to a diabolo pellet. Nice review love the huntsman 👍
Hang on a minute ! I thought this was a gardening programme ! Slugs and pellets !
Hi Andy, great videos. Really professional and you can see such a big difference regarding quality since you started (I binged watched most of them). Inspired me to get my first air pistol: Beretta M84FS. Keep up the good job!
Hello Andy, thanks for your reviews with pcp rifles. But, in the Netherlands there are no restrictions fore airguns power. There are a lot of breakbarrel guns never named! ( Norica, Ekol, Hammeri ,Baikal, Artemis and the Chinees break barrel rifles) but , a lot of fun with your video’s thanks from the Netherlands
The head on the hades looks like it's going to create a lot of drag when passing threw the air so I'm not surprised with the loss of energy down range
Man your “go to rifle” is the same as mine, you just answered so many questions for me hahah thx love the videos.
Great video Andy. Nice Huntsman rifle. I have shot the FX Hybrid Slugs out of my Air Arms S510XS .22 caliber, and even though they shoot slower than pellets out of my 32 foot pound S510XS, they deformed just yours did in the video. I have shot them out to 50 yards and held a 1.25" group. Not bad at all. I have also shot the H&N Slugs and they shot just as well, and with a little more velocity. Keep up the great content.
Fantastic, in the comments of a previous video I asked for a review on the slugs.
as usual I prefer your tests which I consider impartial.
how about comparing more types of slugs for us?
such as a nice comparison between FX, JSB know out, and H&N.
Thanks for your time.
I am loving the JSB so far.
WoW!! now I just can't wait for the 177's these slugs will redefine what an Airgun realy is.
Excellent video even with me finding it 3 years late lol.
Good review Andy. Looks a great slug for the FAC boys.
Cheers & keep safe.
Thank you for su h a well informed and professional presentation. I'm so pleased!
I use the fx slugs in my hw100 fac 35ftlb absolutely loves them,and for plinking 18grain AA heavy,neilson have brought out a 17grain slug
which might work sub 12 👍
Andy could you please try Zan 10gn slugs.
I'm getting great results with several sub12 guns (HW 80 99 100 Rapid 17), aim points seem the same out to 55 yards as an 8.4 pellet and no zero change 😮
Another great informative video ,saving me buying the slugs to try in my 12fp Fx😁
Woukd live to see a slug out battle if possible, jsb, h&n, NSA and fx thanks again for another fantastic video 👍👍
I’ve took the Hybird slugs sub 12 further fx impact mk 2 smooth twist 👀 opener great video
Good review Andy. I wonder if they could thin the walls of the pellet down, or use a lead free material, to bring the weight down to 15gr (ish) to potentially fire from a sub 12 ft lb rifle?
Another great information video. I wonder what would be the effects of long term use on standard barrels as i believe that they recommended for barrels liners. Perhaps another video.
Keep up the great videos.
JC
Thanks Andy, interesting review!
Nice review!
I have noticed the trend to pellets which require more and more power as well. Living in Germany, I can't shoot most of the pellets made by H&N. Feels bad....
Do you people actually follow these pathetic laws? Just tune the gun..
How many letter writing campaigns have been done in Germany, to influence the lawmakers to relax the restrictions? Phone call campaigns? Peaceful demonstrations? Manufacturers asked to join?
Hi Andy, great comparison video. The ballistic gel at 40 meters was very revealing. I’m guessing that the reason the Hades are the more accurate pellet in your Huntsman is because of their low BC. It appears that your rifle is running a bit too “hot” for diabolo pellets - well over 900fps you are into the trans sonic region and that is causing some instability. Because the Hades bleeds off speed so quickly, it is likely spending the least time in the trans sonic region - hence it is more accurate. Is there a way to lower hammer spring tension on your Huntsman- probably just dropping the FPS to 880-890 with the JSB 15.89 will tighten up your groups. Of course, this lowering of the FPS would likely negatively impact the rifles performance with the FX Hybrid slugs. To have a rifle that does both pellets and slugs well would be easier to achieve with a rifle that has some degree of external adjustability.
Very interesting it's a shame it's more for fac air rifles. When everything has calmed down I may have to apply for one. Keep up the great work Mr and Mrs AAR
Very Useful Andy just what I have been waiting for, Seriously considering the Huntsman Regal as a variation on my FAC
all the best
There are specialist sub 12 foot pound slugs. Obviously a lot lighter around 10 grains. I have just bought some to try in my wolverine. I think it will be interesting to see the results, especially at distance.
Very good review. Straight and to the point as usual .Thanks Andy
awesome video and great details and info. is your Daystate Huntsman modified in any way?
The old Lem Spitzer moulds which gave the same shape and near weight in .22 as the FX Slugs fire very well in sub 12 ft guns.
Excellent review!Very professional and to the point as usual!Yeah those slugs need to be pushed fast for them to shine!The co efficiency of the slugs is realy good,and i think out of a more powerful gun it will have a more straight trajectory compared to a pellet.Love the hades pellets!One of the best pellets out there!!
Thank you!. Great review. The advertised Hybrids BC (G1) is 0.80. Was it close to your experience?. Thank you.
That' s how should look a perfect review. Thumbs up!
Great video Andy, I have a can of .25 hades coming for my hatsan bullboss. You got me interested In the slugs.Love the sense of humor !Big thanks from the U.S.
I love your videos! I bought a Hawke scope for my break barrel after watching one of your videos and i love it and put one on my 223 also
But a cement block in front of the chrony . You don't have to see the lower box for the chrony to work the chrony works by the pellet passing over it so protect the chrony with a block and shoot away without worrying about hurting the chrony .
Would be keen to see you test h & n pile drivers in sub 12 .177 as I know the fire well through my 11.5ftlb r10 but don’t have the equipment to see what happens down range power wise
Great review Andy, just what I was looking for. Like you I shoot FAC but in BSA R10.
My standard has been the hades which are accurate enough for pest control and have huge stopping power.
I was incredibly surprised (like you) that the FX slugs were vastly more accurate, with shot on shot at 38m zero. By contrast the H&N slugs were awful and very difficult to chamber. So I shall keep the FX for special low shot pest control eg long distance rabbits, and will dump the H&Nslugs but still use the Hades for squirrels. Best review of these I've seen.
An excellent and informative video cheers Andy
Fantastic testing and explanations!!
Well done Andy, this test/comparison is what was needed, from what I've seen here on CZcams,..I am not surprised at the results shown here.
Now of course,..I'd bet my next delicious hot meal, that there are folks out there, ( like me ) who are wondering if these FX slugs will perform in the trusty break barrel FAC rated
air rifle!
Now who's going to pick up this gauntlet I wonder?
Thanks very much Mrs & Mr AAR!
The video pointed out the break barrels are lesser-powered and will show no advantage from slugs, and some may find a slug jammed in the barrel.
As I have watched others videos about slugs they all seam to prefer higher power airguns and the distance they get out of them is mind blowing when you consider what we used to get was maybe 100 meters with pellets.
slugs 200 - 300+ meters in 5.56mm or .22cal that a huge jump they are working on sub 12 lb slugs just not their yet.
Also they slug manufacturer have 4.5 mm or .177 are out but not FX brand.
Great video! I wish they made that hades in .30 caliber. The hybrid too!
I like the h&m slugs as much as people say there no good for sub 12 but they are the most accurate iv tried
You guys in the Uk need to try the Griffin Slugs. He makes them at any weight and specifically for low power with a hollow tip and hollow skirt. They even work on my cheap multi-pump. For hunting, I prefer the Patriot Javelin slugs. The same price as the FX hybrid slugs but you get twice as many slugs. 200 to be exact and IMO perform better from 75 to 200 yards eliminating pest pigeons. Great review, you guys do an outstanding job every time no matter the subject.
Beautiful stock on the Huntsman! So question, I don't know how things work in the UK, but has anyone ever pushed legally or otherwise to get the laws changed to get rid of the rediculously archane "sub-12 ftlb" laws???
You can have more, just you need a licence.
Wish we was like the usa it’s a joke
No. Mainly because there's not a great deal of point unless you want an extra few yards on a bunny. If you're shooting anything bigger or further out, an air rifle just becomes an expense not worth it. It would make sense to have an upper muzzle velocity that's calibre specific, but really not especially worth it.
Please can you check out Mako and JSB Knockouts.
The 177 Knockouts are available in 2 weights 10 grn and 13+ grn
Ok, this is old video, but i just try slugs from my FAC Daystate Air ranger, work perfektly. I bought my first PCP 2006, and that was Air Force Condor, after that 3 Steyrs and so on. My favorite gun now is heavily modified Snowpeak PP700 what give 27 joules. Buttstock and Weihrauch silencer, Scope MTC Wiper, light and stil lethal for small game. Hades is best if under 50 meters, because that pellet not have good BC
Great video Andy , thank you ( Ivan )
Cheers Mate.
Great test, I have a question if you don’t mind, my rifle is 21 ft/ lbs, would the slug get out the other end!
Nsa slugs are real nice too.
I did a test a few weeks ago with my Crosman F4 .177 caliber 7.4 grain pellet 16 foot-pounds of muzzle energy and at 20 yards it was down to about 10 if I recall don't quote me on that but I was shocked at how much energy was lost at just a short distance with a light pellet
well done andy.Really good down to earth review. Keep them coming.
I use cal .177 air rifles ..... do they make slugs for these yet, or would that be just a waist of time?
I haven't finished watching the whole video yet but thank you for testing it on non fx and non FAC airguns. I've been curious about them.
Well I'm glad I didn't waste my money trying those slugs. 😅
I Like your show and subscribed 👍👍! I’m sure those who shoot 12 FPS in a pellet gun would like more, who doesn’t want more , Canada I believe !
If you diesled the stuck pellet with a couple drops of oil then fire, would it get it unstuck?
Greetings from Sweden!
The land of the FX guns.
Great upload!
About the FX, as you said the short barrel may not be optimal for the slugs.
I have the FX Impact with longer barrel and the slugs have about 285m/s muzzle velocity.
I just got in a air venturi avenger in .22 cal,,,,,what ammo would you recommend I start off with to test in accuracy ,,,,it will be a hunting gun for small game
Because I'm quite stubborn I've been trying to find a slug that works decent in a break barrel check out a company called Griffin airgun ammo they're based here in the US but they have very light .177 caliber slugs with a Halo deep base and they seem to work well
I would be happy if also included 25 grain jsb down range ftpounds
The consensus now is that slugs are more accurate past 75 yards especially if there’s a breeze and the slugs, hold more energy when hitting a target. Many of the FX gun pros are exclusively, shooting slugs now.
I can’t seem to find any kind of test showing exactly how much energy a slug will produce compared to a pellet at 50 yards or 75 yards. Is it 25% more energy is it 50% more energy?
very comprehensive and informative indeed