I think the reasoning for fairy being super effective against fighting has more so to do with fairy being like an embodiment of magic type so it totally makes sense it would be super effective against fighting.
Yes, thank you! Fairy is meant to represent magic in general, not specifically the stereotypical Tinker Bell-esque tiny bug winged girl and a lot of people miss this.
@@Chimeragui Yes, I always thought so. I just don't know why they are so related to sweets and food, especially in the last gens. Maybe some pun on the original language?
@@Eliedeoo again, it's magic. Like mimics and spells that give things life. That's why the honedge and litwick lines are alive because they're items possessed by spirits. Fidough is just dough but give it the good old "Disney bibity bobiti boo" and it's alive. They just use food for god know's what reason
@@destroy7569 bruh Fairies are mythical creatures. They are not inherently feminine. That's just how they're portrayed in most mainstream media because of preexisting expectations of women. Also what would even be wrong with it being "girly"
The idea of psychic resisting fairy makes much more sense if you think about fairy as the more playful trickster that initially founded the original fighting resistance, in that psychic types are smart enough to outthink they're tricks
Yeah no offense to guy who made vudeo throughout the video I started the wonder if he knew anything about fey mythology He literally says "goodness of fairy". Fairy is less like goodness and more like childlike innocence. It isn't inherently good or evil, it just does whatever is fun. Chaotic Neutral if you will.
I also think Fairy should be weak to Ice because Cold Iron is used to keep fairies away from homes, and if a fairy is killed by Cold Iron, the pain is described as a “Cold Burning sensation”, and another word for a Cold-Burn is Frostbite Also it would be really funny if Fighting is Super Effective against Fairy because of two particular scenes in Gravity Falls Soos Swatting a Fairy, and Gruncle Stan Slaping a fairy on his Shoulder
It was weak offensively until Gen 6 (Same Super Effective hits as Fighting but less), a lot of steel types were meta just because of the resistances and weren't even running steel moves.
Bronzong has been on the verge of a mental breakdown ever since the rebalance in Gen 6. Now Bronzong is in tears, being weak to and only resistant against 1/3 of the types each. Its gimmick has been thrown out the window and run over by an ambulance.
I’ve always figured the reason ground is super effective against steel is because of things like earthquakes destroying steel structures, and ice being super effective against ground being because water freezing into ice while chillin’ inside a crack in the earth will cause it to break open more, but that could just be my logic. Idk. Haha 😆
In Sub Arctic regions there is permafrost that basically Ice that has been frozen in the ground for thousands of years. I live next to a flood plain with a lot of sand and when it gets cold in winter it gets hard.
I think ground is strong against steel because ground represents the power of the elements, and wear and tear over time. A steel item left on the ground gets disfigured and unrecognizable
I really like the idea of tweaking the type chart, but I don’t love some of these changes. Sure it’s a bit more balanced but you’ve sort of homogenized everything. They all just have a few things in each category. Different types should have different strengths and weaknesses, that’s what makes them interesting. Bug should be frail, and steel should be super defensive. Normal not hitting anything for x2 isn’t a problem to be fixed, it’s what makes it so unique. Ice types are glass cannons. Ground is a great type held back by being ineffective on flying and anything with levitate. But most of that is stripped away here. I’m not sure the added special effects help with that either. It sorta devalues it when every type gets one. Like a “when everyone’s super, nobody’s super” thing. I’m also not sure how balanced this actually is. Psychic definitely did not need buffs, ground seems a bit weak, and fairy looks kinda trash lol. It’s hard to tell without seeing how it would play out though. Thank you for the video though! Whether I agree or not the topic is really interesting. And your changes are probably better than whatever I’d come up with.
I totally agree. Steel is really good because it is helping calm down the powerful fairy types, which in of itself is meant as a counter to the also powerful dragon type.
Dragon would go nuts Fairy got ran into the Ground, along with Steel, and Dragon gets an immunity to a really common attacking type? It will be Gen 5 all over again
Birds can’t peck machines and break them. You can’t mind control machines. Bugs are smaller, so more sensitive to heat. Water dilutes poison and venom and gross stuff like that. Plants can’t really hurt a dragon. Other than that, this type chart is good and I like the new mechanics.
Regardless of the thematic relevance between psychic and steel, it had to happen. Psychic was just too strong in gen 1, they made both the new types of steel and dark good against it. Same reason that they’re both weak to fighting, one of the weakest types in gen 1. Sure, steel might not need the psychic resistance anymore, but at the time of conception it was needed.
I was looking for this comment also I feel like they should revisit the type chart and make some changes now like removing the resistances of steel vs psychic and grass
steel's dark resistance made no sense, and it's ghost resistance would've made more sense for something like a sound type it's psychic resistance makes a lot of sense, as metal sheets are uses to block psionic powers
@@nazeersadek6705 yup the idea of a psychic showing off their power by bending a spoon or the like is that they are showing off how powerfull they are, because metals are ment to be hard to control also, think of tinfoil hats and the like blocking mind reading, or thin sheets of metal blocking mind reading spells and psyonics in DnD
The grass resistance of dragon is to show its power over the elements, which is also why it has resistance to electric, water, and fire Also fairy is the magic type, so which is going to win in a match up, magic or plain punching, magic will win The steel resistance was to balance psychic, because psychic was crazy OP in Gen 1 Also people tend to kill bugs with fire and rocks, also smoke often calms bugs so they won’t sting you to death Those are my thoughts
I disagree with the change to the normal type. To me, normal type moves are that, a lack of any Elemental or infinity energy behind the it, adding things it’s super effective against is in contrast to that idea. So I would say take away being super effective against fairy type, but add the stab attacks have a 2.5 boost instead of 1.5. Reason being that any Pokémon can do them, and those who specialize in them do it very well.
The type chart effectiveness changes I will say are more balanced, but the additional effects of 2 particular types I'm not too comfortable with, Water healing in Rain and Fighting being immune to Flinching and Taunt. All Water types now pretty much get Rain Dish, and defensively, I think it may come off as a bit unfair if Rain-centered Pokemon teams just get to have a variety of bulky Waters that get 2 Leftovers at once (given that Leftovers is ideally the best defensive Held Item on most defensive Pokemon). Fake Out and Serene Grace flinches would just straight up fall to Fighting types and being immune to Taunt removes a key part of preventing stat boost setups, this would basically make Fighting types the ideal offensive type. I think both of these should be changed to something different that falls more in line with the very slight advantages like Rock and Ground being immune to Sandstorm or Poison and Steel being immune to Poisoning (yes, I know calling Poisoning a slight advantage is a bit of a stretch, but typically if a Pokemon is Poisoned, you can switch out to stall it out or maybe even cure it from Aromatherapy).
Cos metal conducting electricity should be a resistance not a weakness. It's not like the metal is weaker because of the electricity shaking it's molecules about. Sif anything it's stronger. It shouldn't hurt your brain to think about. Just think about what conducting is, it's not melting lol.
@@finna1002 so why is water weak to electric? Probably because water conducts electricity? Or why ground is immune? Electricity isn’t conducted through it for very long.
I understand birds being completely useless against steel machines, but psychic has been able to bend steel with telekinesis since the earliest mangas and animes, maybe even earlier in Western comic books.
I think a big reason some types are just flat better than others are mainly due to the Pokémon themselves, for example there’s a fair few terrible fairy types, steel and dragon types are usually found very late into the game whereas bug types are found very early
Grass type isn’t bad, it has immunity to spore moves which is low key amazing. Ice type is also REALLY good offensively even if it’s bad defensively. Type matchups make it deceptive but the fact it’s a delete button for so many pseudo legendaries (and Landorus) is great. Normal is actually pretty solid due to having a fairly consistent stab along with one weakness and immunity. Bug though is straight garbage.
The idea of Dragon resisting Grass was that Dragon resists the 4 primary elemental types of Pokémon. AKA, the Starter types, Fire, Grass, Water, and Electric. Why Ground beats Steel and Rock is because of what tectonic forces do to buildings. Ground actually has an infinitely better reason to beat Steel than Fighting. Have you ever karate chopped a steel beem? Even with the argument of frigid weather being Ice, Ice would still beat Ground. Cold temperatures freezes dirt, mud, soil, etc. EXTREMELY quickly, rendering them useless. This is the reason why you don't see construction workers plowing through fields in cold temperatures.
Psychic should be super effective against Steel instead of Fairy, because metals are commonly depicted as being one of the most basic elements telekinetics bend in a wide variety of fictions
on the contrary, they're depicted as the hardest to move, and thus why it's impressive when they're moved metals such as aluminium are used to block psychic powers in all kinds od media, even in things like DnD mind reading spells are blocked by thin sheets of metal and the like
@@0whatman In pokemon metal bending is just commonly what psychic types do..to the point even holding a bent spoon powers them up! They have some kind of power over metal in pokemon (or metal powers them up somehow), idk why it's not reflected in the type match-ups however?
@@testerwulf3357 because it's not what they "commonly" do there's a reason why only pokemon line is shown to bend spoons and is said to be incredibly strong as a psychic; bending metal is a meassure of how strong a psychic is as it is ment to be resistant to psychic powers, that's why the bent spoon powers up a psychic pokemon, it's like signifying it's a strong psychic
Tbh the Flying being super effective to Grass could be how high Winds (eg Hurricanes, Tornadoes) can uproot Trees and plants. Flying is in a sense the element of Air.
@@froopyart good point, though I’m sure that’s just my personal justification, it seems like gamefreak didn’t really think it through judging by the whole chart, other than maybe it’s for balancing or something.
@@froopyart the idea with ice is that it’s in place to check powerful offensive pairs like dragon-ground or dragon-flying, who have immunity to electric and ground moves respectively. you could also consider how ground is more offensive (Garchomp, Excadrill, Rhyperior) while rock is more defensive (Tyranitar, Shuckle, Aggron)
For some of the ground type interactions, the explanations actually make a ton of sense Ice beats steel because Ice can erode the ground, just like water Ground beats rock and steel because sand can erode rock and Earthquakes can topple buildings make of steel and brick
"Ice beats steel because Ice can erode the ground" That makes no sense. The ground isn't made of steel. If you want to base a type matchup on this, ice should be super effective against ground type. The floor is made out of floor, not steel!
I generally like the changes (I’m a fan of grass types) but I don’t think that the type of a starter should have no effect on another type. I get your reasoning behind dragons being immune to fire but I feel like the starter types should at least be able to land a hit on every Pokémon to make it possible to use your starter (even if it might be mono type) in every battle while still getting a stab bonus.
It makes a lot of sense why fairies are super effective against fighting because usually magical creatures win against creatures that use regular old like punches and kicks
Also I think it's stupid that psychic is super effective against fairies like I said inside the video this is the weakest link it makes absolutely no sense so yeah just remove that
I really like the concept of Normal being super effective against and resisting Fairy types. Trying to counterbalance an OP type overpowering and OP type with an on paper, dull type like Normal. And it really made sense with the Fantasy vs Reality aspect
But the thing is, then you'd have to deal with the crime against humanity that is Rayquaza 1-shotting Xerneas with extreme speed, or other similar interactions from dragon types which have powerful normal type moves. Dragon would be absolutely unfair.
The thing about game balance, is that an super unbalanced game is annoying and unfun to play, but a super balanced game is also very predictable and boring to play. I feel you missed this philosophy a little...
Couple little nitpicks. I think Grass being weak to Flying was more of a "birds make their nests out of plant material like twigs and leaves", and the Ice type being effective against Ground could be explained as glaciers moving across the ground and seriously scuffing it up, making new lakes and such like the ones in Minnesota as a result. With Ice being the embodiment of frigid temperatures now, though, I'd say that change is fine to stay. Finally, I think Ground hits Steel and Rock as a sort of time analogy. "Everything, even the hardest stones or the strongest steel, will eventually wither to dust."
I can understand the "birds making nests" thing, but also lots of non flying animals use vegetation to make nests, so it still doesn't quite work for me. The time analogy is definitely interesting. Also, props for the Minnesota shout out. That happens to be where I am!
Most of the types make sense. You were right about the reasoning for the interaction between Psychic and Fairy. I don't see the logic there. And I just personally think if there are more than 4 super-effective/resistance types then it gets a little too good. I do like the humble downgrade to the steel type. But I can't find myself agreeing with Fairy being bullied by 5 types. Getting rid of Normal being super effective is the only change I would personally make. Normal types are normal. That's their gimmick. To each their own. That's just how it makes sense to me. The rest of the types are well justified and I can see the logic in the type interactions.
great video 🤗...personally wouldn't change the types as much...also I like having some types being more affective than others... like dragons being resistant to all the starter types; making it feel legendary
@@froopyart I think there base stats shouldn't count as much...probably why dragon type is rarely seen out of suedos...I would love to see an early route dragon type mon...very good for early play but falls behind on stats later on 🙃
I wish a fan game could use this type chart to see it in practice, I especially love the type battle effects benefiting from the environment effects and supporting the types that are under utilized.
Psychic vs Fairy should play on the logical/hyper-intelligent vs fantasy/whimsical aspect of them. Steel resisting Flying should be based on birds not being able to effect it as well as metal actually blocking the wind. Ice should be super-effective on water (if being generous it should also beat normal, grass, and bug just because winter kills them) and since tehy are both in opposition depending on which is more, I feel ike Ice and Fire should both hit each other for super Overall, I think the bigger issue with the original chart is balancing Type advantages and the Pokémon stats. Steel and keep massive defenses if speed and attack are kept relatively low. Psychic is fine as Special powerhouses in oposition to Fighting's Physical. I think Grass should be high HP and bugs frail but high speed etc
Well, this does sound like a promising change to the Type chart. However, I just prefer the type chart as is. It may be just me, but I'm not a fan of people making extra types to counteract an existing type, or modify the current type chart. I just stick with the Type chart that is already given to me, despite any balance issues it has.
I'm also not a fan of adding new types. There are definitely enough as is. I just couldn't let things be as unbalanced as they are. But to each their own.
@@froopyart I understand why you wanted to balance the chart, so I can respect the idea. You do with the Type chart what you want to do for your Fakemon Region, and I'll do the same for mine.
These are the fixes I would make, I tried to buff the bad types but I also tried every change to be somewhat justifyable. I mean I could be like wolfglick and say ice could reisst a certain type that doesnt make sense and it owuld balance out things but to be honest, theres more of Pokemon than JUST competitive, so with my gypothetical changes im tryin to do both things, buff the bad types and nerf a lil bit the best types and also make the changes make actual sense and be somewhat justifyable by logic lol. Here I go: Normal: resisted by Fighting (I mean, normal punches would be weak against trained individuals) Fighting: -resists normal (normal punches would be weak against trained individuals)/no balancing reasons -doesnt resist rock (I mean, no matter how strong and trained someone is, a thrown rock will hurt)/theres literally no reason why rock is resisted by fighting Poison: -immune to poison (I mean, u cant poison poison lmaoo)/poison is garbage defensively, their utility consists in removing toxic spikes basically, so adding an immunity to itself would make it more relevant when team building and it would also balance itself out considering I would make it supereffective against water. -supereffective against bug (pesticides are poison and they kill bugs)/poison is garbage offensively, and I couldnt justify makin it supereffective against any other type and balance out my whole char at the same time, so I had chose bug. -supereffective against water (pollution harms oceans)/that wouldnt just nerf an op type like water, it would also make poison type relevant offensively speaking. -doesnt resist grass (I dont see a reason for it to do + grass is ass offensively and I already gave poison enough buffs lol) Rock: -not resisted by fighting (no matter how strong and trained someone is, a thrown rock will hurt)/theres literally no reason for rock to be weak against fighting Bug: -not resisted by ghost (I mean why is it resisted by ghost? theres no reason other than a stupidly overthought phobia vs ghosts explanation)/ghost is already good defensively, not resisting bug wouldnt make a big difference -not resisted by steel (some bugs can break metals)/also steel is absurldy good defensively, not reissting bug wouldnt make a difference -supereffective against electric (bugs can mess up your electronic devices, literally)/electric is ok defensively, makin it weak to bug when its only weak to ground isnt a big deal to be honest. -weak against poison (bugs are killed by pesticides) poison is garbage offensively, so considering the buffs I already gave to bug and how bad poison is defensively, its fair to make it weak to poison -not resisted by fairy (I mean seriously, who tf thought that making bug types horrible offensive utility even worse was a good idea?) Ghost: -resisted by bug(a stupidly overthought phobia vs ghosts explanation isnt enough for me) wouldnt make a difference for ghost types Steel: -doesnt resist bug (metals can be broken by some bugs) nerfs steels already great defenses andebuffs bugs ass offenses -doesnt resist grass (deforestation isnt a good enough reason for me) steel would still be good defensively and grass would be better offensively -weak to electric (water conducts electricity when it has minerals, steel is a fukin mineral ofc it conducts water)/it would make steel worse defensively but guess what, steel would still be good defensively lmao, and it makes sense lets be honest, if electrics beats water why it doesnt beat steel?) that would also make steel types with good combinations less unbeatable Water: -resisted by ice (you could argue that water freezes when its exposed to cold enviorments, and ice pokemon bodies are so cold that when they get hit by a water type attack it freezes and turns into an ice type attack, and cie resists itself lol) also water is pretty good, removing the following resistance and adding the following weakness wouldnt make a big difference for it but it would really help the rest of the mediocre types. -weak to poison (pollution harms oceans) making poison relevant offensively and water less OP doesnt -doesnt resist ice (the only reason why I did this is to make ground/water pokemon less OP) Grass: -not resisted by poison (for me, grass being resisted by poison is totally unnecessary + grass is ass offensively and I already gave poison enough buffs lol) -not resisted by steel (deforestation isnt a good enough reason for me) grass would be better offensively without making steel bad defensively Electric: -supereffective against steel (water conducts electricity when it has minerals, steel is a fukin mineral ofc it conducts water)/it would make steel worse defensively but guess what, steel would still be good defensively lmao, and it makes sense lets be honest, if electrics beats water why it doesnt beat steel?) nerf steel type defensively -weak to bug (bugs can mess up your electronic devices, literally)/electric is ok defensively, makin it weak to bug when its only weak to ground isnt a big deal to be honest Ice: -not resisted by water (this would nerf unbeatable combinations like water/ground and water/flying) -resists water (you could argue that water freezes when its exposed to cold enviorments, and ice pokemon bodies are so cold that when they get hit by a water type attack it freezes and turns into an ice type attack, and cie resists itself lol)/also this would make combinations like water/dragon less op -resists dragon (u could justify that reptiles are weaker in cold enviorments, so dragon attacks should be weaker too cuz ice type pokemon have super cold bodies lol) dragon types are OP, this is what gamefreak shouldve done instead of creating fairy type, this way ice types would have defensive utility and also nerf an absurly good type such as dragon. Dragon is so good that even with these nerfs and fairy type it would sitll be good Dragon: -resisted by ice (u could justify that reptiles are weaker in cold enviorments, so dragon attacks should be weaker too cuz ice type pokemon have super cold bodies lol) dragon types are OP, Dragon is so good that even with these nerfs and fairy type it would sitll be good + even with tthis nerf most dragon types have enough coverage to deal with ice types still Fairy: -dont resist bug (I mean seriously, who tf thought that making bug types horrible offensive utility even worse was a good idea?) fairy is op and bug is horrible, this wouldnt make a big difference for fairy type. -weak to fire (seriously, why isnt fairy weak to fire? fire can burn fairies easily) this would be great to make stupidly broken steel/fairy types somewhat manageable and fire/fighting types would be good again lmao
Doesn't Steel's weakness to Fire already counteract Fairy/Steel? Last time I checked, Fairy wasn't immune to Fire so Fire is going to do x2 damage to Steel/Fairy while Fire/Fighting is only going to take x1 damage from Fairy thanks to the Fire type's having resistance to Fairy so Fire/Fighting vs Fairy/Steel actually comes out in favor of the former. Hell one of the strategies for Fairy is already to use Fire attacks since it's guaranteed to do half damage at worst due to nothing being straight up immune to Fire not to mention the logic doesn't work if we assume Fairy represents magic since magic users are not inherently weak to fire, and in fact fire resisting magic is a known thing in fiction, so Fire's doing variable degrees of damage to Fairy is actually quite accurate already.
@@lordinfernape4753 Yes I know, that is what I am questioning the actual necessity of because I don’t think it is necessary in the first place Again, Fire already does decent damage against the majority of combinations that use Fairy and outright destroys certain combos; namely Fairy with Ice, Grass and Bug is addition to the aforementioned Steel with just double damage; and conversely takes _reduced_ damage from Fairy making the addition of a weakness to one of if not the most common type unnecessary You’re unfortunately showing the same bias against Fairy that people, myself included, were frustrated with Froopy over especially since you’re already removing a resistance on the grounds of Fairy being “OP” and I say that in quotation marks because it’s just not true when you look at the actual type match ups Again Fire/Fighting is going to do decently against any Fairy Type that isn’t Marill or Carbink which you shouldn’t be encouraging the use of a Fire type against anyway and quadruple damage is just not good in general given how it already makes certain Pokémon basically unusable I get wanting Fire/Fighting to be good but in my opinion it never lost what made it good in the first place even with the addition of Fairy as a type and I do think your fixes are better overall than Froopy’s attempt despite some obvious bias
10:32 Fighting being weak against Psychic makes sense. In media, the mind is portrayed to be more powerful than the body. And Ghost being immune to Fighting also makes sense. Ghost are the spirits of the dead. Spirits have no physical body. Therefore, physical attacks go straight through them.
I wold have make fairy super effective against poison bc magic can heal poison with a spell, i will also remove normal's super effectiveness against fairy bc a normal person can say "i don't belive in fairies", but another normal person can say "i do belive in fairies", also giving normal a super effectiveness against something contradicts normal type's concept of being the "neutral" type. Btw sorry if i mispelled something, english is not my first language
I adored listening to this. That said, I do think overpowered types are justified. Dragon, fairy, psychic, and ghost are mythical/supernatural energies. To varying degrees, I believe they ought to stand above the rest. Steel types deserve to be defensive powerhouses as well. Bug and Grass types should be very frail as well. Bugs can be overwhelming en masse, but individually are incredibly weak. Grass, while given time can overgrown almost anything, are also very fragile - which I think is perfectly captured by the balance of their frailty vs their niche of being excellent status sap/stallers.
This would definitely change the way competitive play and even gym leader difficulty would work. Glad to see grass getting evened out, which makes that starter way more appealing. GameFreak definitely needs to balance the types better
Psychic can be strong against fairy because psychic can represent a new era of logic, where the cience replaces the magic explain of the world. The explain based on mythology creatures are the fairies. I hope I explained well, because I'm learning English. By the way, great video
One critical change we should actually take from this redesign is the weaknesses stacking. The change from x4 to x3 is fairly easy to implement as it doesn't come up that often, but when it does come up it makes a major difference. I think it will help a lot. Also, as many have mentioned, Normal being neutral is the point. But, to steal an idea from another comment, a different way to help out Normal types could be to boost their STA bonus from 1.5x a bit higher, maybe to like 2x.
The issue is that you’re assuming Fairy type Pokémon are inherently good and based on Peter Pan logic when, mythologically speaking, Fae were neither good nor weak There’s a reason people historically called them the Fair Folk as a means to not incur their wrath by seemingly insulting them Trying to pull 'I don’t believe in fairies' bullshit on an actual fairy from mythology will only result in you getting turned into a literal jackass for not showing proper respect For this reason, I would remove Normal and Psychic’s effectiveness against Fairy because frankly it should be the reverse based on how the Fair Folk were able to bend reality to their whims in Gargoyles as shown in the episode The Mirror As for Fairy hurting Fighting I would remind you that Maleficent, the Mistress of All Evil herself, is canonically an evil fairy.
@@froopyart then have both do neutral damage against Fairy Normal should *never* be super effective against anything because that goes completely against the whole point of the Type in the first place: They are the non-elemental, non-supernatural muggles, for lack of a better term, and thus are supposed be average in ever way including not being strong against anything It’s like expecting a regular citizen in DBZ to be able to lay Majin Buu out on the floor by not believing in him when we’ve seen what Buu did to average citizens he before met Hercule: he eats them. Hell, Hercule himself succeeded by *befriending* Buu and teaching him morals, not fighting him
@@froopyart Even without being super effective against Fairy offensively, Psychic can still have high resistance to Fairy defensively: The idea being you need to be highly intelligent and mentally strong to safely communicate with the fae Remember the Psychic was stupidly overpowered in generation one, thanks in part to poor programming admittedly, and was still pretty effective even after it got rebalanced in generation two onward
nice work i love it! but fire being effective against bug makes sense for the same reason its effective against plants, they are small and they live in the grass or on the plants, so they naturally burn a lot faster than other types with thicker skins
Imo grass should still be resisted by dragon just because the other core two are to maintain their “mythical power” status along with being resisted by their own type like the other two core types. As for unique interactions, I think giving more grass types a 1.5x speed boost in grassy terrain along with giving more of them access to grassy terrain would give them more oomph. Also taking away one counter to steel types in the form of ground nerf seemed like an oversight.
Imo I would keep bug's resistance to grass over dragon because dragon resists 3 other types and is only resisted by 2. Also, it would make grass a little bit more different to water and electric since grass would no longer be resisted by dragon. I also think grass no longer being resisted by steel is actually quite useful. This makes sense because grass is already strong against rock, and rock and steel are pretty similar types imo (they're both weak to fighting and ground, and both resist flying and poison.) Typing combinations like grass/rock grass/flying and grass/psychic wouldn't be resisted by any types offensively because they would be able to hit steel for neutral now.
When it comes to psychic resisting fairy, I’d like to add my thoughts to the rest. This only really applies to a subset of psychic types, but it has been said that fae are weak to cold steel which has been interpreted as meteorites. Part of the psychic line is space themed so they can counter fairy due to their more alien status.
Also, fairies are tricksters sometimes and would be hard to hit. Even when they aren't, physical damage wont do much to a mystical being. Poison types are weak to ground, and ground resists poison because toxic waste is often stored in and absorbed by the ground, making it less dangerous. Ground type is effective against rock since earthquakes and sand weathering can break rocks. i get that grass is a pretty weak type but birds make nests out of plants as well, which involves breaking the plant. i think dragon resisted grass water and fire to counter the starter types, so i dont think you should change that. no immunity to fire either, that would make fire starters less favorable. steel type should be weak to water because water can make it rust. there could be a stainless steel ability (if there isnt one already) that makes it immune, resist, or normal damage from water.
“how does steel resist flying type attacks?” on one hand, a bird flying into a metal structure would leave the structure undamaged on the other, flying is also the “wind” type, which also couldn’t damage a sturdy metal structure
the concept overall is nice, but the TRUE way to see how effect it would be is if it was given to pokemon. that also depends on if we are talking about official pokemon and what gen specifically or fakemons aswell.
normal should stay with no super effective effect. any type weak to it would be unusable ingame considering almost every pokemon starts with normal moves. the type exists to be the limbo type and normal types are componsated by having one of the largest coverage in their movepool, most normal types learn weird moves like boltbeam etc. i would buff the type by giving them a special property that boosts non stab move by 20% and erasing normal's resistences while keeping the ghost immunity
I believe the reason the Fairy type has the effective types it does is because Fairy types are more magical but they're also more 'weird' more 'alien' in their mentality. A martial artist use trained and disciplined techniques to use it's power and counter what it expects an opponent to do, but trying to plan around something with such an alien mind would leave them stumbling. As for Dark they rely on trickery more cruel or intimidating tactics, but if a Dark type would growl or scream in a fairys face they may laugh it off thinking 'that is a strange way to say hello' meaning a fairy wouldn't act in a way a dark type could inherently exploit. Finally as for Dragons, they are apex predators and the dominant species of an area striving to challenge all for supremacy even other dragons, really only doing poorly in ice type environment were most creatures tend to be inactive most of the time. But what is better and worse to a fairy? If someone want's to claim to be better or stronger that is their own desire because a Fairy will do as they wish regardless of someone trying to tell them what to do because instead of dominating an area they would instead know their land more like a warden or caretaker.(Also dragon just straight up needed a nerf that wasn't itself.)
Bugs resisting poison made at least some sense. It was a thing back in gen 1 that poison beats bugs because well.. insecticides, but in later gens bugs became resistant to it. They adapted it, so it works. Steel maybe was normally damaged by electric, but won't it be more logical to make steel immune to it? Because yes, it is very conductive, and because of that it can just conduct the current through and not be damaged by it. For that reason water was weak to electric because, yes, it is also conductive, but unlike steel, water is not as dense and way easier to evaporate, so if it would get struck by a lightning, or you'd run electricity through water, it will eventually evaporate., also, lightning rods exist, also something leading to steel being immune. What would potentially make sense to make weak to electric would be grass. Because if you get caught in a thunderstorm, the last thing you want to hide under would be a tree.
I always thought that Fire being more effective against Steel made sense because if the flames are hot enough, it can actually melt steel. But I never quite understood why Steel wasn’t effected by Poison. Poison involves acid, acid is corrosive. Therefore, acid burns through anything, including steel. That never made sense.
It's worth noting a lot of offensive grass type moves also have significant drawbacks. I'd consider poison to be bad. There are a few individual standouts but as a type the only thing they have going for them is toxic, toxic immunity and super effectiveness against fairy.
Bro i have been trapped down this type chart rabbit hole for a full day now. This video was super interesting and there was some ideas in there i never wouldve thought of (eg fairy being weak to normal!) But also adapting this chart whilst incorporating my 4 new fake types and keeping all types scores at 0 is all i can think about. So, bless you. But also curse you. :P
Lol, yeah. Rebalncing type charts is definitely a rabbit hole. I'm slowly working on a revised version that fixes some mathematical oversights from this video.
ello,i love these type changes! Also, before episode 15,pokemon would be getting too strong,even the wild ones,so i go and TRAIN ALL MY POKEMON to level 30.(Ectryo would evolve at level 36 for hard mode as i call it,just 3 more levels.Meowth somehow also hasn't evolved....?idk,i might skip ahead until i find it and determine what level it would evolve at.)
You really went crazy with Dragon, huh? Not only did you make Steel no longer resist it, not only did you heavily nerf Fairy types, but you made them immune to burn?? Goodness gracious.
Great take on rebalancing the typing system! I’ve attempted this a time or two privately, and it’s no easy feat, but you did a much better job than anything I got together. I get too tied up in thinking some of the types need to be completely removed or “re-branded” to effectively provide intuitive balance.
Ground is super effective against Poison because to clean up hazardous materials, you pour sand or some other absorbent material over a chemical spill Steel is weak to Ground because moisture and various compounds in dirt can corrode processed metals
The reason Dragon resists Fire, Water, Grass and Electric was because, in Gen-1, those were the starter types, and they wanted to make Dragon the most powerful type and a challenge to beat.
I think the reason Normal isn’t super effective against anything is because it was designed so that literally EVERY Pokemon can use Normal type moves. If you’re just looking at the chart, that’s one thing, but what you’re suggesting would dramatically screw over the Fairy type.
There's a lot here that I can say that'd make sense but if it doesn't make sense just adding a new ability to help the Pokemon out will assist them like how steel is resistant towards psychic types. Having a made up ability, i.e. one I made called Wired Mentality allows psychic types to have an advantage towards steel types.
[10:12] The interaction with Fighting VS Fairy is that Fairies cheat at fair competition by using magic, no amount of rigorous training could overcome a cheater using magic to say, make themselves as strong as Superman. The Fairly Odd Parents teach you that much as it's in Da Rules that you can't use magic to gain an advantage. That is why Fairy is resistant to Fighting while also dealing x2 damage against Fighting.
Why would fairy beat ghost if ghost types are supposed to represent the dead while dark represent evil? Because being dead doesn't surely mean you're evil
The only problem with this type chart is the fact that alot of pokémons needs to be reworked: Garchomp and volcarona would be absolutley BROKEN with this type chart. Not to mention that Archaludon would be almost unkillable.
Fun video, but one thing I think you’re overlooking is that types with more disadvantages generally make up for it in other ways like unique moves & abilities. Grass type for example looks awful if you just look at the type chart, but is actually really good in competitive due to some really good abilities, moves and matchup advantages
Also the fact that dragon already has really high base stat totals across the board and powerful attacks which hit hard neutrally, both dragon and normal. Fairy being weak to normal and Steel not resisting dragon would make dragons ***extremely*** OP. I mean...imagine if Rayquaza could straight up 1-shot Xerneas with an Extreme Speed...
Ground being good against steel and rock makes sense cause if you think of landmasses. When their is an earthquake rocks split and fall apart, also buildings take damage from the earthquakes
13:57 Psychic types are strong against Fairy because they have a far better understanding of the natural world. They know the truth behind all the fairytales ever told. And therefore, know how to utilize their superior knowledge to counteract any mystical phenomena that comes into contact with them.
I agree with a lot but a few things. Rock should still be strong against bug since rock smash bug, and/or bug and fighting having that resistance against one another always felt like they had their own little interaction that’s not present anywhere else, like two equally matched foes who can fight forever
While some of your type changes were needed, and overall I agree with you (Bug, Grass, and especially Ice). I see a big flaw about how you went on balancing the type chart. The flaw is that the chart assumes all of the types have equal distribution (i.e., how many Pokemon have this particular type). The biggest example is Dragon. It's considered to be one of the strongest types, but it's also one of the rarest types, being balanced by exactly that. According to Bulbapedia and as of Gen 9, 75 (7.32%) out of 1,025 Pokemon are Dragon-type, including alternate forms like Mega Evolution and regional forms. There's also the fact that Dragon is mostly reserved for Pseudo-legendaries, the strongest non-legendary pokemon in the games. The same can be said for Fairy at 69 (6.73%, Ice at 58 (5.66%), and Electric at 73 (7.12%). Compare these to more common types like Water at 159 (15.51%), Flying at 112 (10.93%), or Psychic at 109 (10.63%). With that being said, is changing the type chart so that EVERY type is neither underpowered nor overpowered a good thing? If I were you, I'd change it so that the rarer types have a slight advantage over the more common types, but not enough to be consistently win battles. Ice, for instance, could be both immune and strong against Water (normally resistant to it), since water would just freeze up to make more ice.
I personally like that some types being better than others. I think the type cheat should be rebalanced more so that each type would make sense more. Maybe Poison could be strong against grass, water, flying, bug, and ground, and it could be weak to fire, ground, fajry, etc to highlight the pollution aspect for example
I think the water hp restauration in rain needs a bit balancing as some pokemon have the ability rain dish which heals them in the rain already. So a tweaking on either on. These mechanics would be, in my opinion a bit better. Edit: Also I think grass should keep resisting grass even if that did not make sense, because now, offensively grass would be one of the strongest typings in the game having one type resisting it.
Yeah, the HP restore is definitely too OP. Looking back I could definitely rework all the battle effects. It doesn't fix a problem that the current system has, you are just at a severe disadvantage as a mono type. With battle effects, its just better to be a dual type no matter what. So, yeah, they could all be rebalanced, with something that helps mono types. Yeah, I think I am okay with it resisting it too, especially since it was nice when all the start types resisted themselves.
I'm surprised Psychic isn't weak to Electric here. Maybe its due to balancing, but following the other weaknesses, most people are scared of thunder and lightning. Thus, Psychic would now be weak to Electric. Also not present is the idea that Normal and Fighting are strong against Bug, since we smash bugs every day to get rid of them. Not sure why Bug resists Fighting when it, to me, should've been the other way around. At the end of the day though, you can change the Type Chart how you see fit to make it more balanced. This is just my perspective on things.
I get the idea of this, though I think taking the balance this far is a bit much. The imbalance of Pokemon creates a lot of fun situations. The only real problem with it is how many types are actually useless. Like Psychic has no need to have an immunity and fairies had no business resisting bug when bug was already the weakest type. Ice has a few too many weaknesses and really needs just one more resistance, but I think the general flexibility in strengths is acceptable. It's okay for steel to just be better than bug. But closing the gap a little would be pretty useful, like letting bug resist psychic and fairy, and hit fairy for Super effective damage. Add in a special ability for bugs like immunity to sound based effects or a built-in compound-eyes effect could help a lot, even without strengthening the type in the type chart. Some stuff like this could go a long way to make types that are explicitly bad, better
Ice being super-effective against ground isn't because it "freezes over the ground so nothing can grow", it's because ice is an incredibly powerful force of weathering and erosion. When water freezes, it expands, which forces apart rocks and sediments that it seeps into, making it more prone to erosion. In fact by this logic, ice should also be supereffective against rock because of this, and those types should be mutually supereffective against eachother. Ground being supereffective against rock and steel also makes sense logically. One argument is to point out how poorly rock and steel human structures fare against earthquakes. Another for rock is that deep underground the heat and pressure actually changes the rock, metamorphizing it by folding it, compressing it, etc. Steel would fall into a similar boat deep underground due to the sheer scale of the forces in the ground that deep. On a similar note, ground no longer resisting rock is asanine to me, as the ground is a much larger scale than any one rock, so the ground overall wouldn't be very affected by one particular rock. Bug being weak to rock is very intuitive. Bugs get smashed by shoes, rocks much harder and heavier than shoes, therefore rocks smash bugs. Aside from the logical connections between weaknesses and resistances...fairy being weak to *five* types, resistance/immunity to only 3, and only supereffective on 3? Made even worse by those weakness types being some of the most common types in the game? Fairy would suck all kinds of ass in this new meta. Dragon overall would run over everything with an 18-wheeler. Already extremely high base stat totals across the board, very powerful STAB moves that hit even more things at least neutrally for heavy damage, a defensive immunity replacing a defensive resistance, and extremely common and really powerful normal type moves like hyperbeam would be a supereffective coverage move against arguably its most glaring weakness. Dragons would be on literally *every* competitive team. Dragon would be *BY FAR* the best type in the game. Swords Dance Rayquaza with extreme speed could legit just get its attack to +2, kill any fairy with extreme speed which always goes first, then kill everything else instantly with dragon ascent. That would be stupidly busted.
Good points! I'm currently working on a second attempt at this. Still needs some more tweaks and waiting on some feedback on the new approach from a couple more competitive players, but the next pass will be a major improvement over this one.
Wow, that was a huge rework. I am not sure if the players are really good to relearn the typechart from scratch. It fixes the imbalance with drastic changes. I wonder what would be the changes if the goal was to reduce (and not fix) the imbalance, with minimal and "invisible" changes. I think I could do 7 little changes, as the types that need the most changes are: - Defense-wise, either remove a weakness or add a resistance to Rock, Grass, Psychic and Ice-type Pokémon. - Offense-wise, either remove a resistance or add a weakness to Grass, Poison and Bug-type moves. Normal-type moves should instead have access to stronger moves, and be more "jack-of-all-trade". *Defense-wise:* - Rock-type Pokémon are no longer weak to Ground-type moves. - Grass-type Pokémon are no longer weak to Flying-type moves. - Psychic-type Pokémon now resist to Fairy-type moves. - Ice-type Pokémon now resist both Ground-type and Water-type moves. _Explanation:_ *Rock:* It should reduce Pokémon with 2 double-weaknesses such as Magcargo (Rock/Fire) or Probopass (Rock/Steel). Cradily (Rock/Grass) and Armaldo (Rock/Bug) now resist Ground-type moves. Plus: Ground-type was already the most useful type for offense. *Grass:* It should help players picking the Grass-type starter to deal with the early Bird Pokémon, plus allowing to distinguish Grass and Bug-type further. Pokémon such as Leavanny (Grass/Bug) no longer have 2 double-weaknesses. *Fairy:* Just an "invisible" change to both boost Psychic and reduce Fairy. *Ice:* The type acts more as some sort of counter to both types. Perhaps Scorching Sands and Scald are now super-effective on Ice-type Pokémon, but are weaker: 65 BP (instead of 80) and 10 PP (instead of 15). *Offense-wise:* - Grass-type Pokémon are no longer resisted by Poison-type Pokémon. - Poison-type moves are no longer resisted by Ghost-type Pokémon. - Bug-type moves are no longer resisted by Steel-type Pokémon. _Explanation:_ *Grass:* It is both for balancing and show Flora capabilities to adapt to poisonous environment. It also means Toxapex, Glimmora and Glodsire are now weak to Grass-type moves (Glimmora is no longer double-weak to Ground-type moves since Rock is no longer weak to it). *Poison:* Just an "invisible" change to both boost Poison-type offensive capabilities and Ghost defensive one, without breaking the Ghost/Dark one weakness. It also means Mimikyue and Decidueye are now weak to Poison. *Bug:* More a "Bug in the Machine", it differentiate Grass and Bug further. It also allows Metagross, Ferrothorn and Kingambit to be weak to such moves, while making Bug-STAB more of a threat.
I feel like you completely missed the point as to why Steel was created back in Gen 2. It was made to help with Dragon and Psychic being out of control. Sure they’re not nearly as powerful today thanks to the introduction of Dark and Fairy as well. If Dragon is immune to Fire because “dragons are associated with fire in many cultures” then Dragon should be immune to Water Type as well for the same logic. Especially given that Pokémon was created by a culture (Japanese) that typically associates Dragons with Water over Fire. I like some of your changes, but honestly I feel like many of your changes sterilized what made some types “special” or niche over others.
Instead of making normal strong against fairy, why not make normal resist water. It makes sense because 60% of our bodies are made of water. Also, what is a splash of water going to do to a human or animal-like creature?
I think the reasoning for fairy being super effective against fighting has more so to do with fairy being like an embodiment of magic type so it totally makes sense it would be super effective against fighting.
Yes, thank you! Fairy is meant to represent magic in general, not specifically the stereotypical Tinker Bell-esque tiny bug winged girl and a lot of people miss this.
@@Chimeragui Yes, I always thought so. I just don't know why they are so related to sweets and food, especially in the last gens. Maybe some pun on the original language?
@@Eliedeoo again, it's magic. Like mimics and spells that give things life. That's why the honedge and litwick lines are alive because they're items possessed by spirits. Fidough is just dough but give it the good old "Disney bibity bobiti boo" and it's alive. They just use food for god know's what reason
They should have named it magic instead of something girly.
@@destroy7569 bruh
Fairies are mythical creatures. They are not inherently feminine. That's just how they're portrayed in most mainstream media because of preexisting expectations of women.
Also what would even be wrong with it being "girly"
The idea of psychic resisting fairy makes much more sense if you think about fairy as the more playful trickster that initially founded the original fighting resistance, in that psychic types are smart enough to outthink they're tricks
I like this explanation
Yeah no offense to guy who made vudeo throughout the video I started the wonder if he knew anything about fey mythology
He literally says "goodness of fairy". Fairy is less like goodness and more like childlike innocence. It isn't inherently good or evil, it just does whatever is fun. Chaotic Neutral if you will.
yup, this is the explanation I allways had for it
steel resisting psychic mqkes sense cuz of the metal sheets blocking psionic powers
I also think Fairy should be weak to Ice because Cold Iron is used to keep fairies away from homes, and if a fairy is killed by Cold Iron, the pain is described as a “Cold Burning sensation”, and another word for a Cold-Burn is Frostbite
Also it would be really funny if Fighting is Super Effective against Fairy because of two particular scenes in Gravity Falls
Soos Swatting a Fairy, and Gruncle Stan Slaping a fairy on his Shoulder
I feel like steel should still be “the resistance type” I want it to resist a lot of types but being offensively very weak.
It was weak offensively until Gen 6 (Same Super Effective hits as Fighting but less), a lot of steel types were meta just because of the resistances and weren't even running steel moves.
@Mitistouchyamama it was in part because steel and dark were added in Gen 2 to balance physic types who were overpowered in Gen 1
@@sam7559 context in the history of the game is important.
Bronzong has been on the verge of a mental breakdown ever since the rebalance in Gen 6.
Now Bronzong is in tears, being weak to and only resistant against 1/3 of the types each. Its gimmick has been thrown out the window and run over by an ambulance.
@@sam7559 and the best type in the game normal
I’ve always figured the reason ground is super effective against steel is because of things like earthquakes destroying steel structures, and ice being super effective against ground being because water freezing into ice while chillin’ inside a crack in the earth will cause it to break open more, but that could just be my logic. Idk. Haha 😆
In Sub Arctic regions there is permafrost that basically Ice that has been frozen in the ground for thousands of years. I live next to a flood plain with a lot of sand and when it gets cold in winter it gets hard.
I think ground is strong against steel because ground represents the power of the elements, and wear and tear over time. A steel item left on the ground gets disfigured and unrecognizable
I really like the idea of tweaking the type chart, but I don’t love some of these changes. Sure it’s a bit more balanced but you’ve sort of homogenized everything. They all just have a few things in each category. Different types should have different strengths and weaknesses, that’s what makes them interesting.
Bug should be frail, and steel should be super defensive. Normal not hitting anything for x2 isn’t a problem to be fixed, it’s what makes it so unique. Ice types are glass cannons. Ground is a great type held back by being ineffective on flying and anything with levitate. But most of that is stripped away here.
I’m not sure the added special effects help with that either. It sorta devalues it when every type gets one. Like a “when everyone’s super, nobody’s super” thing.
I’m also not sure how balanced this actually is. Psychic definitely did not need buffs, ground seems a bit weak, and fairy looks kinda trash lol. It’s hard to tell without seeing how it would play out though.
Thank you for the video though! Whether I agree or not the topic is really interesting. And your changes are probably better than whatever I’d come up with.
This is the best comment I've read so far. You summarized my thought perfectly.
I totally agree. Steel is really good because it is helping calm down the powerful fairy types, which in of itself is meant as a counter to the also powerful dragon type.
Sure it is okay for Ice to be glass cannons, but they are SO glassy they struggle to 'cannon'.
@@Jeikobu Yeah I agree, but the proposed changes make ice pretty good defensively
Dragon would go nuts
Fairy got ran into the Ground, along with Steel, and Dragon gets an immunity to a really common attacking type? It will be Gen 5 all over again
Birds can’t peck machines and break them. You can’t mind control machines. Bugs are smaller, so more sensitive to heat. Water dilutes poison and venom and gross stuff like that. Plants can’t really hurt a dragon. Other than that, this type chart is good and I like the new mechanics.
Honestly I think water should be weak to poison and poison should also be weak to water since both beats both
Bug type requierd being small . Scyther Is like 1.60 . So i think dosent really count.
STEEL type are not machines
@@danilobucker Yea they are. They’re living metal unless it has a design that doesn’t make it one like Lucario
Not all steel types are machines.
Regardless of the thematic relevance between psychic and steel, it had to happen. Psychic was just too strong in gen 1, they made both the new types of steel and dark good against it. Same reason that they’re both weak to fighting, one of the weakest types in gen 1. Sure, steel might not need the psychic resistance anymore, but at the time of conception it was needed.
In Gen 6 they removed Steel type's Ghost and Dark resistances.
I was looking for this comment also I feel like they should revisit the type chart and make some changes now like removing the resistances of steel vs psychic and grass
steel's dark resistance made no sense, and it's ghost resistance would've made more sense for something like a sound type
it's psychic resistance makes a lot of sense, as metal sheets are uses to block psionic powers
@@0whatman really? I’ve always seen psychic people bend metal with their powers in the media
@@nazeersadek6705 yup
the idea of a psychic showing off their power by bending a spoon or the like is that they are showing off how powerfull they are, because metals are ment to be hard to control
also, think of tinfoil hats and the like blocking mind reading, or thin sheets of metal blocking mind reading spells and psyonics in DnD
For steel types resisting psychic, I think it's a reference to tinfoil hats protecting you from mind reading?
Ohhhh yea that’s smart
That’s mindreading not getting thrown across the room
Yep.That's why Magneto wore his helmet , especially when around Xavier Charles.
The grass resistance of dragon is to show its power over the elements, which is also why it has resistance to electric, water, and fire
Also fairy is the magic type, so which is going to win in a match up, magic or plain punching, magic will win
The steel resistance was to balance psychic, because psychic was crazy OP in Gen 1
Also people tend to kill bugs with fire and rocks, also smoke often calms bugs so they won’t sting you to death
Those are my thoughts
Al valid, I just had to push some of them aside to balance the type chart.
@@froopyart ok
I disagree with the change to the normal type. To me, normal type moves are that, a lack of any Elemental or infinity energy behind the it, adding things it’s super effective against is in contrast to that idea. So I would say take away being super effective against fairy type, but add the stab attacks have a 2.5 boost instead of 1.5. Reason being that any Pokémon can do them, and those who specialize in them do it very well.
Perhaps
Does that not mean every normal move is super effective?
Yeah 2.5 would be too much and overpowered, I would say 1.8 or 2.0 instead
The type chart effectiveness changes I will say are more balanced, but the additional effects of 2 particular types I'm not too comfortable with, Water healing in Rain and Fighting being immune to Flinching and Taunt. All Water types now pretty much get Rain Dish, and defensively, I think it may come off as a bit unfair if Rain-centered Pokemon teams just get to have a variety of bulky Waters that get 2 Leftovers at once (given that Leftovers is ideally the best defensive Held Item on most defensive Pokemon). Fake Out and Serene Grace flinches would just straight up fall to Fighting types and being immune to Taunt removes a key part of preventing stat boost setups, this would basically make Fighting types the ideal offensive type. I think both of these should be changed to something different that falls more in line with the very slight advantages like Rock and Ground being immune to Sandstorm or Poison and Steel being immune to Poisoning (yes, I know calling Poisoning a slight advantage is a bit of a stretch, but typically if a Pokemon is Poisoned, you can switch out to stall it out or maybe even cure it from Aromatherapy).
My favorite change is electric being effective against steel, it hurts my brain to think it wouldn’t be tbh.
Cos metal conducting electricity should be a resistance not a weakness. It's not like the metal is weaker because of the electricity shaking it's molecules about. Sif anything it's stronger. It shouldn't hurt your brain to think about. Just think about what conducting is, it's not melting lol.
@@finna1002 so why is water weak to electric? Probably because water conducts electricity? Or why ground is immune? Electricity isn’t conducted through it for very long.
@@jamesgabor9284 water is weak to electric because it fries all the fish in the water and fish are water types
@@jamesgabor9284 Ground isa string against alexyric because electric cannot effect it in real life.
@@jamesgabor9284 use basic reasoning dude
I understand birds being completely useless against steel machines, but psychic has been able to bend steel with telekinesis since the earliest mangas and animes, maybe even earlier in Western comic books.
alakazam for example
It makes no sense that normal types are immune to curse! Because the whole point of a ghost's curse is that it's applied to NORMAL people
Yeah, I was really struggling to come up with a decent battle effect for the normal type.
@@froopyart berries give more effect
@@froopyart built in Early Bird! Sleep status seems to be a Normal status like Freeze is Ice.
@@EnriqueLaberintico That would also nerf sleep too which is definitely needed.
But it needed some battle immunity.
I think a big reason some types are just flat better than others are mainly due to the Pokémon themselves, for example there’s a fair few terrible fairy types, steel and dragon types are usually found very late into the game whereas bug types are found very early
Grass type isn’t bad, it has immunity to spore moves which is low key amazing. Ice type is also REALLY good offensively even if it’s bad defensively. Type matchups make it deceptive but the fact it’s a delete button for so many pseudo legendaries (and Landorus) is great. Normal is actually pretty solid due to having a fairly consistent stab along with one weakness and immunity. Bug though is straight garbage.
The idea of Dragon resisting Grass was that Dragon resists the 4 primary elemental types of Pokémon. AKA, the Starter types, Fire, Grass, Water, and Electric.
Why Ground beats Steel and Rock is because of what tectonic forces do to buildings. Ground actually has an infinitely better reason to beat Steel than Fighting. Have you ever karate chopped a steel beem?
Even with the argument of frigid weather being Ice, Ice would still beat Ground. Cold temperatures freezes dirt, mud, soil, etc. EXTREMELY quickly, rendering them useless. This is the reason why you don't see construction workers plowing through fields in cold temperatures.
Psychic should be super effective against Steel instead of Fairy, because metals are commonly depicted as being one of the most basic elements telekinetics bend in a wide variety of fictions
plus alakzam
on the contrary, they're depicted as the hardest to move, and thus why it's impressive when they're moved
metals such as aluminium are used to block psychic powers in all kinds od media, even in things like DnD mind reading spells are blocked by thin sheets of metal and the like
@@0whatman In pokemon metal bending is just commonly what psychic types do..to the point even holding a bent spoon powers them up! They have some kind of power over metal in pokemon (or metal powers them up somehow), idk why it's not reflected in the type match-ups however?
@@testerwulf3357 because it's not what they "commonly" do
there's a reason why only pokemon line is shown to bend spoons and is said to be incredibly strong as a psychic; bending metal is a meassure of how strong a psychic is as it is ment to be resistant to psychic powers, that's why the bent spoon powers up a psychic pokemon, it's like signifying it's a strong psychic
Tbh the Flying being super effective to Grass could be how high Winds (eg Hurricanes, Tornadoes) can uproot Trees and plants. Flying is in a sense the element of Air.
Or just that birds commonly eat fruits
@@OrangutanusOr oftentimes make nests out of...you guessed it...grass. They have Sharp beaks which can easily cut grass.
9:50 imo it’s because of frost action, erosion of rock via the expansion of ice
I kinda get that. But then why isn't ice good against rock types?
@@froopyart good point, though I’m sure that’s just my personal justification, it seems like gamefreak didn’t really think it through judging by the whole chart, other than maybe it’s for balancing or something.
Because you smash ice with rocks.
@@grandson9360 Myeah, I'm just reasoning ice types are more the "cold temperature" types, so it doesn't work as well.
@@froopyart the idea with ice is that it’s in place to check powerful offensive pairs like dragon-ground or dragon-flying, who have immunity to electric and ground moves respectively. you could also consider how ground is more offensive (Garchomp, Excadrill, Rhyperior) while rock is more defensive (Tyranitar, Shuckle, Aggron)
For some of the ground type interactions, the explanations actually make a ton of sense
Ice beats steel because Ice can erode the ground, just like water
Ground beats rock and steel because sand can erode rock and Earthquakes can topple buildings make of steel and brick
"Ice beats steel because Ice can erode the ground"
That makes no sense. The ground isn't made of steel. If you want to base a type matchup on this, ice should be super effective against ground type. The floor is made out of floor, not steel!
@@nathangamble125 I'm pretty sure that was just a typo. "Ice beats GROUND because ice can erode the ground"
I generally like the changes (I’m a fan of grass types) but I don’t think that the type of a starter should have no effect on another type. I get your reasoning behind dragons being immune to fire but I feel like the starter types should at least be able to land a hit on every Pokémon to make it possible to use your starter (even if it might be mono type) in every battle while still getting a stab bonus.
It makes a lot of sense why fairies are super effective against fighting because usually magical creatures win against creatures that use regular old like punches and kicks
Also I think it's stupid that psychic is super effective against fairies like I said inside the video this is the weakest link it makes absolutely no sense so yeah just remove that
I really like the concept of Normal being super effective against and resisting Fairy types. Trying to counterbalance an OP type overpowering and OP type with an on paper, dull type like Normal.
And it really made sense with the Fantasy vs Reality aspect
But the thing is, then you'd have to deal with the crime against humanity that is Rayquaza 1-shotting Xerneas with extreme speed, or other similar interactions from dragon types which have powerful normal type moves. Dragon would be absolutely unfair.
The thing about game balance, is that an super unbalanced game is annoying and unfun to play, but a super balanced game is also very predictable and boring to play. I feel you missed this philosophy a little...
I think Ice being Super Effective against Ground is because of big glaciars breaking into yhe ground
Couple little nitpicks. I think Grass being weak to Flying was more of a "birds make their nests out of plant material like twigs and leaves", and the Ice type being effective against Ground could be explained as glaciers moving across the ground and seriously scuffing it up, making new lakes and such like the ones in Minnesota as a result. With Ice being the embodiment of frigid temperatures now, though, I'd say that change is fine to stay. Finally, I think Ground hits Steel and Rock as a sort of time analogy. "Everything, even the hardest stones or the strongest steel, will eventually wither to dust."
I can understand the "birds making nests" thing, but also lots of non flying animals use vegetation to make nests, so it still doesn't quite work for me. The time analogy is definitely interesting. Also, props for the Minnesota shout out. That happens to be where I am!
Most of the types make sense. You were right about the reasoning for the interaction between Psychic and Fairy. I don't see the logic there. And I just personally think if there are more than 4 super-effective/resistance types then it gets a little too good. I do like the humble downgrade to the steel type. But I can't find myself agreeing with Fairy being bullied by 5 types. Getting rid of Normal being super effective is the only change I would personally make. Normal types are normal. That's their gimmick.
To each their own. That's just how it makes sense to me. The rest of the types are well justified and I can see the logic in the type interactions.
great video 🤗...personally wouldn't change the types as much...also I like having some types being more affective than others... like dragons being resistant to all the starter types; making it feel legendary
That's fair. though I feel like dragons are better enough as is since their base stat totals tend to be considerably higher than other types.
@@froopyart I think there base stats shouldn't count as much...probably why dragon type is rarely seen out of suedos...I would love to see an early route dragon type mon...very good for early play but falls behind on stats later on 🙃
Shouldn't flying types still be affected by Stealth Rock, as the name suggests, they're hidden?
Flying type still flies
@@gibbsterV But even so, Flying Type Pokemon still get hit by Stealth Rocks, since they float in the air, not stay put on the ground.
Yes, the flying type behaves the same. they can still be hot by stealth rocks.
I wish a fan game could use this type chart to see it in practice, I especially love the type battle effects benefiting from the environment effects and supporting the types that are under utilized.
Psychic vs Fairy should play on the logical/hyper-intelligent vs fantasy/whimsical aspect of them. Steel resisting Flying should be based on birds not being able to effect it as well as metal actually blocking the wind. Ice should be super-effective on water (if being generous it should also beat normal, grass, and bug just because winter kills them) and since tehy are both in opposition depending on which is more, I feel ike Ice and Fire should both hit each other for super
Overall, I think the bigger issue with the original chart is balancing Type advantages and the Pokémon stats. Steel and keep massive defenses if speed and attack are kept relatively low. Psychic is fine as Special powerhouses in oposition to Fighting's Physical. I think Grass should be high HP and bugs frail but high speed etc
Makes you wonder if bug types should resist or be immune to fairy types. Bugs don't understand childish fantasies. They are just bugs
Love the changes. I could see this helping the competitive scene so much.
I hadn't even thought about the competitive side, but yeah this would so many more pokemon viable.
Except he gave every water type rain dish, making rain teams even more powerful than they already were.
I am getting Dragon flashbacks
Well, this does sound like a promising change to the Type chart. However, I just prefer the type chart as is. It may be just me, but I'm not a fan of people making extra types to counteract an existing type, or modify the current type chart. I just stick with the Type chart that is already given to me, despite any balance issues it has.
I'm also not a fan of adding new types. There are definitely enough as is. I just couldn't let things be as unbalanced as they are. But to each their own.
@@froopyart I understand why you wanted to balance the chart, so I can respect the idea. You do with the Type chart what you want to do for your Fakemon Region, and I'll do the same for mine.
These are the fixes I would make, I tried to buff the bad types but I also tried every change to be somewhat justifyable. I mean I could be like wolfglick and say ice could reisst a certain type that doesnt make sense and it owuld balance out things but to be honest, theres more of Pokemon than JUST competitive, so with my gypothetical changes im tryin to do both things, buff the bad types and nerf a lil bit the best types and also make the changes make actual sense and be somewhat justifyable by logic lol.
Here I go:
Normal: resisted by Fighting (I mean, normal punches would be weak against trained individuals)
Fighting:
-resists normal (normal punches would be weak against trained individuals)/no balancing reasons
-doesnt resist rock (I mean, no matter how strong and trained someone is, a thrown rock will hurt)/theres literally no reason why rock is resisted by fighting
Poison:
-immune to poison (I mean, u cant poison poison lmaoo)/poison is garbage defensively, their utility consists in removing toxic spikes basically, so adding an immunity to itself would make it more relevant when team building and it would also balance itself out considering I would make it supereffective against water.
-supereffective against bug (pesticides are poison and they kill bugs)/poison is garbage offensively, and I couldnt justify makin it supereffective against any other type and balance out my whole char at the same time, so I had chose bug.
-supereffective against water (pollution harms oceans)/that wouldnt just nerf an op type like water, it would also make poison type relevant offensively speaking.
-doesnt resist grass (I dont see a reason for it to do + grass is ass offensively and I already gave poison enough buffs lol)
Rock:
-not resisted by fighting (no matter how strong and trained someone is, a thrown rock will hurt)/theres literally no reason for rock to be weak against fighting
Bug:
-not resisted by ghost (I mean why is it resisted by ghost? theres no reason other than a stupidly overthought phobia vs ghosts explanation)/ghost is already good defensively, not resisting bug wouldnt make a big difference
-not resisted by steel (some bugs can break metals)/also steel is absurldy good defensively, not reissting bug wouldnt make a difference
-supereffective against electric (bugs can mess up your electronic devices, literally)/electric is ok defensively, makin it weak to bug when its only weak to ground isnt a big deal to be honest.
-weak against poison (bugs are killed by pesticides) poison is garbage offensively, so considering the buffs I already gave to bug and how bad poison is defensively, its fair to make it weak to poison
-not resisted by fairy (I mean seriously, who tf thought that making bug types horrible offensive utility even worse was a good idea?)
Ghost:
-resisted by bug(a stupidly overthought phobia vs ghosts explanation isnt enough for me) wouldnt make a difference for ghost types
Steel:
-doesnt resist bug (metals can be broken by some bugs) nerfs steels already great defenses andebuffs bugs ass offenses
-doesnt resist grass (deforestation isnt a good enough reason for me) steel would still be good defensively and grass would be better offensively
-weak to electric (water conducts electricity when it has minerals, steel is a fukin mineral ofc it conducts water)/it would make steel worse defensively but guess what, steel would still be good defensively lmao, and it makes sense lets be honest, if electrics beats water why it doesnt beat steel?) that would also make steel types with good combinations less unbeatable
Water:
-resisted by ice (you could argue that water freezes when its exposed to cold enviorments, and ice pokemon bodies are so cold that when they get hit by a water type attack it freezes and turns into an ice type attack, and cie resists itself lol) also water is pretty good, removing the following resistance and adding the following weakness wouldnt make a big difference for it but it would really help the rest of the mediocre types.
-weak to poison (pollution harms oceans) making poison relevant offensively and water less OP
doesnt
-doesnt resist ice (the only reason why I did this is to make ground/water pokemon less OP)
Grass:
-not resisted by poison (for me, grass being resisted by poison is totally unnecessary + grass is ass offensively and I already gave poison enough buffs lol)
-not resisted by steel (deforestation isnt a good enough reason for me) grass would be better offensively without making steel bad defensively
Electric:
-supereffective against steel (water conducts electricity when it has minerals, steel is a fukin mineral ofc it conducts water)/it would make steel worse defensively but guess what, steel would still be good defensively lmao, and it makes sense lets be honest, if electrics beats water why it doesnt beat steel?) nerf steel type defensively
-weak to bug (bugs can mess up your electronic devices, literally)/electric is ok defensively, makin it weak to bug when its only weak to ground isnt a big deal to be honest
Ice:
-not resisted by water (this would nerf unbeatable combinations like water/ground and water/flying)
-resists water (you could argue that water freezes when its exposed to cold enviorments, and ice pokemon bodies are so cold that when they get hit by a water type attack it freezes and turns into an ice type attack, and cie resists itself lol)/also this would make combinations like water/dragon less op
-resists dragon (u could justify that reptiles are weaker in cold enviorments, so dragon attacks should be weaker too cuz ice type pokemon have super cold bodies lol) dragon types are OP, this is what gamefreak shouldve done instead of creating fairy type, this way ice types would have defensive utility and also nerf an absurly good type such as dragon. Dragon is so good that even with these nerfs and fairy type it would sitll be good
Dragon:
-resisted by ice (u could justify that reptiles are weaker in cold enviorments, so dragon attacks should be weaker too cuz ice type pokemon have super cold bodies lol) dragon types are OP, Dragon is so good that even with these nerfs and fairy type it would sitll be good + even with tthis nerf most dragon types have enough coverage to deal with ice types still
Fairy:
-dont resist bug (I mean seriously, who tf thought that making bug types horrible offensive utility even worse was a good idea?) fairy is op and bug is horrible, this wouldnt make a big difference for fairy type.
-weak to fire (seriously, why isnt fairy weak to fire? fire can burn fairies easily) this would be great to make stupidly broken steel/fairy types somewhat manageable and fire/fighting types would be good again lmao
These are all so good! I am really impressed by all the thought that you actually put into this!
Doesn't Steel's weakness to Fire already counteract Fairy/Steel? Last time I checked, Fairy wasn't immune to Fire so Fire is going to do x2 damage to Steel/Fairy while Fire/Fighting is only going to take x1 damage from Fairy thanks to the Fire type's having resistance to Fairy so Fire/Fighting vs Fairy/Steel actually comes out in favor of the former.
Hell one of the strategies for Fairy is already to use Fire attacks since it's guaranteed to do half damage at worst due to nothing being straight up immune to Fire not to mention the logic doesn't work if we assume Fairy represents magic since magic users are not inherently weak to fire, and in fact fire resisting magic is a known thing in fiction, so Fire's doing variable degrees of damage to Fairy is actually quite accurate already.
@@Chimeragui Fire would do x4 against steel/fairies
@@lordinfernape4753 Yes I know, that is what I am questioning the actual necessity of because I don’t think it is necessary in the first place
Again, Fire already does decent damage against the majority of combinations that use Fairy and outright destroys certain combos; namely Fairy with Ice, Grass and Bug is addition to the aforementioned Steel with just double damage; and conversely takes _reduced_ damage from Fairy making the addition of a weakness to one of if not the most common type unnecessary
You’re unfortunately showing the same bias against Fairy that people, myself included, were frustrated with Froopy over especially since you’re already removing a resistance on the grounds of Fairy being “OP” and I say that in quotation marks because it’s just not true when you look at the actual type match ups
Again Fire/Fighting is going to do decently against any Fairy Type that isn’t Marill or Carbink which you shouldn’t be encouraging the use of a Fire type against anyway and quadruple damage is just not good in general given how it already makes certain Pokémon basically unusable
I get wanting Fire/Fighting to be good but in my opinion it never lost what made it good in the first place even with the addition of Fairy as a type and I do think your fixes are better overall than Froopy’s attempt despite some obvious bias
10:32 Fighting being weak against Psychic makes sense. In media, the mind is portrayed to be more powerful than the body. And Ghost being immune to Fighting also makes sense. Ghost are the spirits of the dead. Spirits have no physical body. Therefore, physical attacks go straight through them.
13:27 Psychic being immune to Confusion. Perfect. Psychic types’ brains are far too complexed to be confused.
I wold have make fairy super effective against poison bc magic can heal poison with a spell, i will also remove normal's super effectiveness against fairy bc a normal person can say "i don't belive in fairies", but another normal person can say "i do belive in fairies", also giving normal a super effectiveness against something contradicts normal type's concept of being the "neutral" type.
Btw sorry if i mispelled something, english is not my first language
I adored listening to this. That said, I do think overpowered types are justified. Dragon, fairy, psychic, and ghost are mythical/supernatural energies. To varying degrees, I believe they ought to stand above the rest.
Steel types deserve to be defensive powerhouses as well.
Bug and Grass types should be very frail as well. Bugs can be overwhelming en masse, but individually are incredibly weak. Grass, while given time can overgrown almost anything, are also very fragile - which I think is perfectly captured by the balance of their frailty vs their niche of being excellent status sap/stallers.
"we need to bring dragon up"
You lost me right there lmao
This would definitely change the way competitive play and even gym leader difficulty would work. Glad to see grass getting evened out, which makes that starter way more appealing. GameFreak definitely needs to balance the types better
13:40
Criminal masterminds occasionally overpowering the power of friendship to impede in their plans of justice
I knew I wasn't the only one that thought that Normal should be strong against Fairy
Psychic can be strong against fairy because psychic can represent a new era of logic, where the cience replaces the magic explain of the world. The explain based on mythology creatures are the fairies.
I hope I explained well, because I'm learning English. By the way, great video
One critical change we should actually take from this redesign is the weaknesses stacking. The change from x4 to x3 is fairly easy to implement as it doesn't come up that often, but when it does come up it makes a major difference. I think it will help a lot.
Also, as many have mentioned, Normal being neutral is the point. But, to steal an idea from another comment, a different way to help out Normal types could be to boost their STA bonus from 1.5x a bit higher, maybe to like 2x.
The issue is that you’re assuming Fairy type Pokémon are inherently good and based on Peter Pan logic when, mythologically speaking, Fae were neither good nor weak
There’s a reason people historically called them the Fair Folk as a means to not incur their wrath by seemingly insulting them
Trying to pull 'I don’t believe in fairies' bullshit on an actual fairy from mythology will only result in you getting turned into a literal jackass for not showing proper respect
For this reason, I would remove Normal and Psychic’s effectiveness against Fairy because frankly it should be the reverse based on how the Fair Folk were able to bend reality to their whims in Gargoyles as shown in the episode The Mirror
As for Fairy hurting Fighting I would remind you that Maleficent, the Mistress of All Evil herself, is canonically an evil fairy.
Totally get your reasoning. But also. I have to actually balance the chart...
@@froopyart then have both do neutral damage against Fairy
Normal should *never* be super effective against anything because that goes completely against the whole point of the Type in the first place: They are the non-elemental, non-supernatural muggles, for lack of a better term, and thus are supposed be average in ever way including not being strong against anything
It’s like expecting a regular citizen in DBZ to be able to lay Majin Buu out on the floor by not believing in him when we’ve seen what Buu did to average citizens he before met Hercule: he eats them. Hell, Hercule himself succeeded by *befriending* Buu and teaching him morals, not fighting him
@@Chimeragui well we can just disagree about how the normal type should operate.
@@froopyart Even without being super effective against Fairy offensively, Psychic can still have high resistance to Fairy defensively: The idea being you need to be highly intelligent and mentally strong to safely communicate with the fae
Remember the Psychic was stupidly overpowered in generation one, thanks in part to poor programming admittedly, and was still pretty effective even after it got rebalanced in generation two onward
nice work i love it! but fire being effective against bug makes sense for the same reason its effective against plants, they are small and they live in the grass or on the plants, so they naturally burn a lot faster than other types with thicker skins
Imo grass should still be resisted by dragon just because the other core two are to maintain their “mythical power” status along with being resisted by their own type like the other two core types. As for unique interactions, I think giving more grass types a 1.5x speed boost in grassy terrain along with giving more of them access to grassy terrain would give them more oomph.
Also taking away one counter to steel types in the form of ground nerf seemed like an oversight.
Imo I would keep bug's resistance to grass over dragon because dragon resists 3 other types and is only resisted by 2. Also, it would make grass a little bit more different to water and electric since grass would no longer be resisted by dragon. I also think grass no longer being resisted by steel is actually quite useful. This makes sense because grass is already strong against rock, and rock and steel are pretty similar types imo (they're both weak to fighting and ground, and both resist flying and poison.) Typing combinations like grass/rock grass/flying and grass/psychic wouldn't be resisted by any types offensively because they would be able to hit steel for neutral now.
what the psychic type needs is first to have resistance to fairy type and second is to have dark type resistance instead of immunity
I think that ice types should be strong against poison because viruses and bacteria are often kept at bay in cold temperatures.
Poison type normally isn't anything to do with infection; it's venom, pollution, or acid.
@@nathangamble125 but even these kinds of poison can be affected by the cold.
5:17 ‘I don’t believe in fairies!’ I love that. 😂
When it comes to psychic resisting fairy, I’d like to add my thoughts to the rest. This only really applies to a subset of psychic types, but it has been said that fae are weak to cold steel which has been interpreted as meteorites. Part of the psychic line is space themed so they can counter fairy due to their more alien status.
Oh, the space connection is really good. Smart.
Also, fairies are tricksters sometimes and would be hard to hit. Even when they aren't, physical damage wont do much to a mystical being. Poison types are weak to ground, and ground resists poison because toxic waste is often stored in and absorbed by the ground, making it less dangerous. Ground type is effective against rock since earthquakes and sand weathering can break rocks. i get that grass is a pretty weak type but birds make nests out of plants as well, which involves breaking the plant. i think dragon resisted grass water and fire to counter the starter types, so i dont think you should change that. no immunity to fire either, that would make fire starters less favorable. steel type should be weak to water because water can make it rust. there could be a stainless steel ability (if there isnt one already) that makes it immune, resist, or normal damage from water.
“how does steel resist flying type attacks?”
on one hand, a bird flying into a metal structure would leave the structure undamaged
on the other, flying is also the “wind” type, which also couldn’t damage a sturdy metal structure
Gabe points at a Tornado.
the concept overall is nice, but the TRUE way to see how effect it would be is if it was given to pokemon. that also depends on if we are talking about official pokemon and what gen specifically or fakemons aswell.
normal should stay with no super effective effect. any type weak to it would be unusable ingame considering almost every pokemon starts with normal moves. the type exists to be the limbo type and normal types are componsated by having one of the largest coverage in their movepool, most normal types learn weird moves like boltbeam etc.
i would buff the type by giving them a special property that boosts non stab move by 20% and erasing normal's resistences while keeping the ghost immunity
I believe the reason the Fairy type has the effective types it does is because Fairy types are more magical but they're also more 'weird' more 'alien' in their mentality. A martial artist use trained and disciplined techniques to use it's power and counter what it expects an opponent to do, but trying to plan around something with such an alien mind would leave them stumbling.
As for Dark they rely on trickery more cruel or intimidating tactics, but if a Dark type would growl or scream in a fairys face they may laugh it off thinking 'that is a strange way to say hello' meaning a fairy wouldn't act in a way a dark type could inherently exploit. Finally as for Dragons, they are apex predators and the dominant species of an area striving to challenge all for supremacy even other dragons, really only doing poorly in ice type environment were most creatures tend to be inactive most of the time. But what is better and worse to a fairy? If someone want's to claim to be better or stronger that is their own desire because a Fairy will do as they wish regardless of someone trying to tell them what to do because instead of dominating an area they would instead know their land more like a warden or caretaker.(Also dragon just straight up needed a nerf that wasn't itself.)
that water typing effect would actually break competitive
Lol. Yeah, I need to tweak that.
nerfed the fairy and steel types to hell
Bugs resisting poison made at least some sense. It was a thing back in gen 1 that poison beats bugs because well.. insecticides, but in later gens bugs became resistant to it. They adapted it, so it works. Steel maybe was normally damaged by electric, but won't it be more logical to make steel immune to it? Because yes, it is very conductive, and because of that it can just conduct the current through and not be damaged by it. For that reason water was weak to electric because, yes, it is also conductive, but unlike steel, water is not as dense and way easier to evaporate, so if it would get struck by a lightning, or you'd run electricity through water, it will eventually evaporate., also, lightning rods exist, also something leading to steel being immune. What would potentially make sense to make weak to electric would be grass. Because if you get caught in a thunderstorm, the last thing you want to hide under would be a tree.
I always thought that Fire being more effective against Steel made sense because if the flames are hot enough, it can actually melt steel. But I never quite understood why Steel wasn’t effected by Poison. Poison involves acid, acid is corrosive. Therefore, acid burns through anything, including steel. That never made sense.
It's worth noting a lot of offensive grass type moves also have significant drawbacks.
I'd consider poison to be bad. There are a few individual standouts but as a type the only thing they have going for them is toxic, toxic immunity and super effectiveness against fairy.
Bro i have been trapped down this type chart rabbit hole for a full day now. This video was super interesting and there was some ideas in there i never wouldve thought of (eg fairy being weak to normal!) But also adapting this chart whilst incorporating my 4 new fake types and keeping all types scores at 0 is all i can think about.
So, bless you. But also curse you. :P
Lol, yeah. Rebalncing type charts is definitely a rabbit hole. I'm slowly working on a revised version that fixes some mathematical oversights from this video.
It makes sense for ground to be super effective against steel as earthquakes are known for destroying buildings.
I get that, but earthquakes also uproot trees, crack glaciers, and destroy just about everything.
ello,i love these type changes! Also, before episode 15,pokemon would be getting too strong,even the wild ones,so i go and TRAIN ALL MY POKEMON to level 30.(Ectryo would evolve at level 36 for hard mode as i call it,just 3 more levels.Meowth somehow also hasn't evolved....?idk,i might skip ahead until i find it and determine what level it would evolve at.)
You really went crazy with Dragon, huh? Not only did you make Steel no longer resist it, not only did you heavily nerf Fairy types, but you made them immune to burn?? Goodness gracious.
The reason why steel resist's psychic is beacause of the "wear tinfoil hats to protect you from mind control"
Interesting idea. But what about physics bend metal spoons? Alakazam is based around that whole trope.
Psychic Types could just be smarter about using magic than Fairy.
Great take on rebalancing the typing system! I’ve attempted this a time or two privately, and it’s no easy feat, but you did a much better job than anything I got together.
I get too tied up in thinking some of the types need to be completely removed or “re-branded” to effectively provide intuitive balance.
Ground is super effective against Poison because to clean up hazardous materials, you pour sand or some other absorbent material over a chemical spill
Steel is weak to Ground because moisture and various compounds in dirt can corrode processed metals
I Love the Changes it definitely Fits
I fully believe normal should be super affective against fairy.
You could even say the logic behind it is reality beats fiction
The reason Dragon resists Fire, Water, Grass and Electric was because, in Gen-1, those were the starter types, and they wanted to make Dragon the most powerful type and a challenge to beat.
I think the reason Normal isn’t super effective against anything is because it was designed so that literally EVERY Pokemon can use Normal type moves. If you’re just looking at the chart, that’s one thing, but what you’re suggesting would dramatically screw over the Fairy type.
In the artic, there's permafrost. The ground becomes frozen
There's a lot here that I can say that'd make sense but if it doesn't make sense just adding a new ability to help the Pokemon out will assist them like how steel is resistant towards psychic types. Having a made up ability, i.e. one I made called Wired Mentality allows psychic types to have an advantage towards steel types.
i think that physic should be good against steel because of the old "bending spoons with mind" trick
I do like that reasoning! Also, great profile image!
[10:12] The interaction with Fighting VS Fairy is that Fairies cheat at fair competition by using magic, no amount of rigorous training could overcome a cheater using magic to say, make themselves as strong as Superman.
The Fairly Odd Parents teach you that much as it's in Da Rules that you can't use magic to gain an advantage.
That is why Fairy is resistant to Fighting while also dealing x2 damage against Fighting.
Why would fairy beat ghost if ghost types are supposed to represent the dead while dark represent evil? Because being dead doesn't surely mean you're evil
I like the premise of mathematically balancing the type matchups. I'd also factor in the number of pokemon of each type.
IS that Gabe?
C'mon not every guy with a beard IS Ga-
"My name IS Gabe"
You know how fire is weak to ants because of the reference to how people burn ants with magnifying glass
It's a cute trope, but in general insects are able to survive extremely hot environments. That is why they are so successful in deserts.
The only problem with this type chart is the fact that alot of pokémons needs to be reworked:
Garchomp and volcarona would be absolutley BROKEN with this type chart.
Not to mention that Archaludon would be almost unkillable.
Fun video, but one thing I think you’re overlooking is that types with more disadvantages generally make up for it in other ways like unique moves & abilities. Grass type for example looks awful if you just look at the type chart, but is actually really good in competitive due to some really good abilities, moves and matchup advantages
Also the fact that dragon already has really high base stat totals across the board and powerful attacks which hit hard neutrally, both dragon and normal. Fairy being weak to normal and Steel not resisting dragon would make dragons ***extremely*** OP. I mean...imagine if Rayquaza could straight up 1-shot Xerneas with an Extreme Speed...
The only thing I disagree with is that flying should be ineffective against steel.
What's a bird gonna do against metal if it can't hurt rock?
Ground being good against steel and rock makes sense cause if you think of landmasses. When their is an earthquake rocks split and fall apart, also buildings take damage from the earthquakes
13:57 Psychic types are strong against Fairy because they have a far better understanding of the natural world. They know the truth behind all the fairytales ever told. And therefore, know how to utilize their superior knowledge to counteract any mystical phenomena that comes into contact with them.
Im so happy you tried to both fix it mathematically but also fix it thematically. I dont think you can fix pokemon without doing both
13:58 I think that saying "facts/logic/science etc prove non resistance of fantasy/fay creatures" is fair point
I agree with a lot but a few things. Rock should still be strong against bug since rock smash bug, and/or bug and fighting having that resistance against one another always felt like they had their own little interaction that’s not present anywhere else, like two equally matched foes who can fight forever
While some of your type changes were needed, and overall I agree with you (Bug, Grass, and especially Ice). I see a big flaw about how you went on balancing the type chart. The flaw is that the chart assumes all of the types have equal distribution (i.e., how many Pokemon have this particular type).
The biggest example is Dragon. It's considered to be one of the strongest types, but it's also one of the rarest types, being balanced by exactly that. According to Bulbapedia and as of Gen 9, 75 (7.32%) out of 1,025 Pokemon are Dragon-type, including alternate forms like Mega Evolution and regional forms. There's also the fact that Dragon is mostly reserved for Pseudo-legendaries, the strongest non-legendary pokemon in the games.
The same can be said for Fairy at 69 (6.73%, Ice at 58 (5.66%), and Electric at 73 (7.12%). Compare these to more common types like Water at 159 (15.51%), Flying at 112 (10.93%), or Psychic at 109 (10.63%).
With that being said, is changing the type chart so that EVERY type is neither underpowered nor overpowered a good thing? If I were you, I'd change it so that the rarer types have a slight advantage over the more common types, but not enough to be consistently win battles.
Ice, for instance, could be both immune and strong against Water (normally resistant to it), since water would just freeze up to make more ice.
Yeah, this attempt had some oversights for sure. I did another much more thought bout pass at the type chart later on my channel.
I personally like that some types being better than others. I think the type cheat should be rebalanced more so that each type would make sense more. Maybe Poison could be strong against grass, water, flying, bug, and ground, and it could be weak to fire, ground, fajry, etc to highlight the pollution aspect for example
I think the water hp restauration in rain needs a bit balancing as some pokemon have the ability rain dish which heals them in the rain already. So a tweaking on either on. These mechanics would be, in my opinion a bit better.
Edit: Also I think grass should keep resisting grass even if that did not make sense, because now, offensively grass would be one of the strongest typings in the game having one type resisting it.
Yeah, the HP restore is definitely too OP. Looking back I could definitely rework all the battle effects. It doesn't fix a problem that the current system has, you are just at a severe disadvantage as a mono type. With battle effects, its just better to be a dual type no matter what. So, yeah, they could all be rebalanced, with something that helps mono types.
Yeah, I think I am okay with it resisting it too, especially since it was nice when all the start types resisted themselves.
I'm surprised Psychic isn't weak to Electric here. Maybe its due to balancing, but following the other weaknesses, most people are scared of thunder and lightning. Thus, Psychic would now be weak to Electric.
Also not present is the idea that Normal and Fighting are strong against Bug, since we smash bugs every day to get rid of them. Not sure why Bug resists Fighting when it, to me, should've been the other way around.
At the end of the day though, you can change the Type Chart how you see fit to make it more balanced. This is just my perspective on things.
Awwwwww I love the cactus guy you used for grass💚
Thanks! He's the grass starter for my fakemon region based on Jurassic Park.
@@froopyart NP
I get the idea of this, though I think taking the balance this far is a bit much. The imbalance of Pokemon creates a lot of fun situations. The only real problem with it is how many types are actually useless. Like Psychic has no need to have an immunity and fairies had no business resisting bug when bug was already the weakest type. Ice has a few too many weaknesses and really needs just one more resistance, but I think the general flexibility in strengths is acceptable. It's okay for steel to just be better than bug. But closing the gap a little would be pretty useful, like letting bug resist psychic and fairy, and hit fairy for Super effective damage. Add in a special ability for bugs like immunity to sound based effects or a built-in compound-eyes effect could help a lot, even without strengthening the type in the type chart. Some stuff like this could go a long way to make types that are explicitly bad, better
Ice being super-effective against ground isn't because it "freezes over the ground so nothing can grow", it's because ice is an incredibly powerful force of weathering and erosion. When water freezes, it expands, which forces apart rocks and sediments that it seeps into, making it more prone to erosion. In fact by this logic, ice should also be supereffective against rock because of this, and those types should be mutually supereffective against eachother.
Ground being supereffective against rock and steel also makes sense logically. One argument is to point out how poorly rock and steel human structures fare against earthquakes. Another for rock is that deep underground the heat and pressure actually changes the rock, metamorphizing it by folding it, compressing it, etc. Steel would fall into a similar boat deep underground due to the sheer scale of the forces in the ground that deep. On a similar note, ground no longer resisting rock is asanine to me, as the ground is a much larger scale than any one rock, so the ground overall wouldn't be very affected by one particular rock.
Bug being weak to rock is very intuitive. Bugs get smashed by shoes, rocks much harder and heavier than shoes, therefore rocks smash bugs.
Aside from the logical connections between weaknesses and resistances...fairy being weak to *five* types, resistance/immunity to only 3, and only supereffective on 3? Made even worse by those weakness types being some of the most common types in the game? Fairy would suck all kinds of ass in this new meta.
Dragon overall would run over everything with an 18-wheeler. Already extremely high base stat totals across the board, very powerful STAB moves that hit even more things at least neutrally for heavy damage, a defensive immunity replacing a defensive resistance, and extremely common and really powerful normal type moves like hyperbeam would be a supereffective coverage move against arguably its most glaring weakness. Dragons would be on literally *every* competitive team. Dragon would be *BY FAR* the best type in the game. Swords Dance Rayquaza with extreme speed could legit just get its attack to +2, kill any fairy with extreme speed which always goes first, then kill everything else instantly with dragon ascent. That would be stupidly busted.
Good points! I'm currently working on a second attempt at this. Still needs some more tweaks and waiting on some feedback on the new approach from a couple more competitive players, but the next pass will be a major improvement over this one.
Wow, that was a huge rework. I am not sure if the players are really good to relearn the typechart from scratch. It fixes the imbalance with drastic changes. I wonder what would be the changes if the goal was to reduce (and not fix) the imbalance, with minimal and "invisible" changes. I think I could do 7 little changes, as the types that need the most changes are:
- Defense-wise, either remove a weakness or add a resistance to Rock, Grass, Psychic and Ice-type Pokémon.
- Offense-wise, either remove a resistance or add a weakness to Grass, Poison and Bug-type moves. Normal-type moves should instead have access to stronger moves, and be more "jack-of-all-trade".
*Defense-wise:*
- Rock-type Pokémon are no longer weak to Ground-type moves.
- Grass-type Pokémon are no longer weak to Flying-type moves.
- Psychic-type Pokémon now resist to Fairy-type moves.
- Ice-type Pokémon now resist both Ground-type and Water-type moves.
_Explanation:_
*Rock:* It should reduce Pokémon with 2 double-weaknesses such as Magcargo (Rock/Fire) or Probopass (Rock/Steel). Cradily (Rock/Grass) and Armaldo (Rock/Bug) now resist Ground-type moves. Plus: Ground-type was already the most useful type for offense.
*Grass:* It should help players picking the Grass-type starter to deal with the early Bird Pokémon, plus allowing to distinguish Grass and Bug-type further. Pokémon such as Leavanny (Grass/Bug) no longer have 2 double-weaknesses.
*Fairy:* Just an "invisible" change to both boost Psychic and reduce Fairy.
*Ice:* The type acts more as some sort of counter to both types. Perhaps Scorching Sands and Scald are now super-effective on Ice-type Pokémon, but are weaker: 65 BP (instead of 80) and 10 PP (instead of 15).
*Offense-wise:*
- Grass-type Pokémon are no longer resisted by Poison-type Pokémon.
- Poison-type moves are no longer resisted by Ghost-type Pokémon.
- Bug-type moves are no longer resisted by Steel-type Pokémon.
_Explanation:_
*Grass:* It is both for balancing and show Flora capabilities to adapt to poisonous environment. It also means Toxapex, Glimmora and Glodsire are now weak to Grass-type moves (Glimmora is no longer double-weak to Ground-type moves since Rock is no longer weak to it).
*Poison:* Just an "invisible" change to both boost Poison-type offensive capabilities and Ghost defensive one, without breaking the Ghost/Dark one weakness. It also means Mimikyue and Decidueye are now weak to Poison.
*Bug:* More a "Bug in the Machine", it differentiate Grass and Bug further. It also allows Metagross, Ferrothorn and Kingambit to be weak to such moves, while making Bug-STAB more of a threat.
you could say ground is resistant to poison because soils can absorb toxins and neutralize poisons perhaps
I feel like you completely missed the point as to why Steel was created back in Gen 2. It was made to help with Dragon and Psychic being out of control. Sure they’re not nearly as powerful today thanks to the introduction of Dark and Fairy as well. If Dragon is immune to Fire because “dragons are associated with fire in many cultures” then Dragon should be immune to Water Type as well for the same logic. Especially given that Pokémon was created by a culture (Japanese) that typically associates Dragons with Water over Fire.
I like some of your changes, but honestly I feel like many of your changes sterilized what made some types “special” or niche over others.
Instead of making normal strong against fairy, why not make normal resist water. It makes sense because 60% of our bodies are made of water. Also, what is a splash of water going to do to a human or animal-like creature?