Drusus didn't necessarily do something criminal to become a Cephalon, Suda williningly volunteered to be transformed in order to prevent a slow decay into alzheimers. It being voluntary would also explain why he still has so much of a human personality and retains his memories; the process that turned Ordan Karris into Ordis wasn't undergone, and Drusus was allowed to keep his mind and personality, his self.
Meaning that the transformation into a Cephalon is not only a punishment, but a choice for those willing to take that loss of a body for some form of betterment of the future Suda is an archivist Drusus is a historian
Loid makes a statement insinuating he was glassed for harboring warframes, as well as Nihil explaining the process was made as a punishment. Suda taking the punishment on her own doesn't necessarily mean it's not punishment and from what Ordis explains, the subject loses MUCH of itself in the process.
It's the same with Warframes, some Warframes were created without consent but others were, Gara Prime as an example asked to be turned into a warframe. I imagine for some it was quite the honor, little did they know the horror they'd go through.
Excellent study, Seige. Impressions: 1. There is a convergence in Warframe: that of ancient Hindu thought regarding creation as a dream and the modern digital age notion of existence as a virtual reality. 2. The language of the Void evokes Biblical themes of the First Language - "Adam's Tongue" - that began in the Garden of Eden and was in use amongst men until the fall of the Tower of Babble. Purportedly, that language framed the highest meaning, one which the act of naming (such as the beasts), provided divine understanding of its nature and true purpose. Void tongue is an antithesis, a perversion of ultimate understanding, but perverted by what? The Void itself? Or by the pollution of human contact (notables: Entrati, Granum, Natah, even the Tenno). 3. The loss of Granum's hand ostensibly speaks to medieval punishment but there may be deeper connections to classical mystic/theological traditions (Tyr, Vishpla, Tezcatlipoca, etc). 4. If the Void is truly that - a void, empty and formless - then the Man in the Wall is not the Devil or an Eldritch god, but the Shadow - the unrecognized, abandoned, unconscious self. In this view, there are many who lost the confrontation with their shadow and were consumed by it - Entrati, Granum, Dante, amongst others. As the Tenno are US, the question that DESteve may be posing is: Will you too fail? Will you face that inner darkness and emerge anew? Whole? I end this speculation from something from the lore, when Sythel says: "The first scholar looked into the Void and he feared it. And his fear took shape. Do you understand? That's how all this started." Thus, I ask you: how different might the Void be if it wasn't fear that It first felt - its first imprinting - but rather wonder. Or daresay acceptance? 5. Leverian's final remarks about the Void is almost an inversion of the Cartesian maximum Cogito ergo sum: Ego sum quia videor (I am because I am seen).
All of your points are absolutely astounding. And I’ve no doubt, given the metaphorical, metaphysical, and mystical studies the writers have similar ideas. Point 4 is particularly astute, as it follows DeSeige’s video from over a year ago explaining the shadow concept and how the War Within, the “coin” choices we make, and the seeming darkness of our void alter ego all reflect that same Jungian thought. If this is true, then all we’ve done up to this point will eventually lead to something big, and possibly dark. Every ounce of WF revolves around the struggle to be human. Every enemy was either once human, or at least human created. Every creature, redesigned by humans to replace the extinct earth habitats. Every struggle, human against human. And the Indifference had to go and make it plain as day: for he chose the Vitruvian Man as the image he presents to us. Man’s idea of human perfection…yet corrupted at the head, the seat of our mind and morality.
Ooh … I really dig your take on the meaning behind Wally’s chewed up head (or is it a mind blown?). Literally he has bitten off even than he can take - or should. Everything is unbridled. For isn’t the real abyss one of no restraint? Wally might be a crafty fellow but that doesn’t make him wise. A parting thought: the “finale” need not necessarily be dark. Big yes, but if DESteve plays his RPG cards right, we actually maybe in for a rare gaming treat … our choices (based upon the cut scene dialogues throughout the main quests) have consequences of future gameplay. If you chose “harsh” options - you get damage buffs. For “eternal optimism” a DR buff. And for the “balanced” response, stronger companions. Sure would get a stir and if I’ve learned anything about DESteve by playing his game on and off for a decade is that he loves stirring.
Criticisms: 1. Creation is not a “dream” in any context of Warframe. Even conceptually embodied entities are explicitly real. The realness of them, their guilt, and their unfinished duty make a pretty strong point in that direction. The holdfasts exemplify this. Warframe leans pretty heavily into “your real” and “my real.” What was created that lines up with this dream notion? Duviri was a realm we know was truly created from the ground up, and yet it feels much more dreamlike than any place within true creation. 2. Why is it a perversion? The man in the wall is obviously this eldritch being of an incomprehensible existence. If you’ve ever played bloodborne, you can think of the voidtongue as runes of old ones. Essentially glyphs that are true because they embody a core tenet of reality. The wall of bone, the wall of lohk, Mara lohk. It would be impossible to say this word is being used improperly, when it can clearly be translated. Jahu gargoyle, not to mention that the voidtongue wasn’t created by any reflection of albrecht’s consciousness. It was created by the void itself. Man in the wall speaks plain English to us. Which means the voidtongue isn’t merely just some reflection of language. It’s a simplification of language, in a way that allows extensive concepts to be made clear in a few words. Super common trope in eldritch horror. Also, the requiem mods, in order from 1-4 and left to right, make a poem. I would imagine reading the voidtongue words, in that order, conveys a similar meaning to the poem. 3. Loss of granum’s hand is impossible for me, or really anyone to make an assumption on. I think it’s more just the symbol of the hand and the symbol of gold being used in conjunction rather than a hidden mythology reference. 4. Sort of. Maybe. That’s the common theory, right? But the lotus knows waaaaaaaay more than she’s letting on. Our man in the wall isn’t albrecht’s. That much is clear, from a million dialogues. Yonta talking about the reliquary drives especially. To say the massive, infinite dimensional entity that’s a literal embodiment of endless presents and mirrors whatever consciousness it encounters, it’s an eldritch god. It’s likely the void itself. It exists on a level so far above and beyond the mere jungian shadow. It offers deals to multiple people. You’re allowed to say the void became what it is because of the first person who went in, but that’s a story that’s already written. There’s no agency in that story. Albrecht doomed the world, game over. I don’t believe the void is merely a manifestation of the first fear it encountered. Quite frankly, I’m not sure what albrecht’s shadow would be. He was absolutely shameless until after everything happened. It’s every now, every emotion, all of everything that can’t be touched but can be seen. 4. Yeah. No arguments there. To exist you need to be observed. To interact with forces that can confirm your existence. “Realness” is not subjective in Warframe. Everything that can happen did happen. But to bring those myriad realities together is to actively deny thousands of realities, thousands of selves. If those thousands of realities are never witnessed they never occurred, for all intents and purposes. The phrase “what did you see?” And “what do you remember” are always VERY important.
@@HarrowedDweeb Great post. Really enjoyed it. Hopefully, I will do it proper justice. First, a disclaimer. In no way do I consider myself a lore authority; nor do I have any insider knowledge. Just another avid player who enjoys ruminating. Regarding specifics: 1. Agreed; the characters are not figments, they are “real”. My remark was strictly literary thematic one. 2. You are most likely correct; that the Void Entity is a Lovecraftian thing. Nevertheless, I get a lot of psychology vibes, particularly during the War Within quest. Nice summary about the Void Tongue glyphs and yes, I see the homage to Bloodborne. Admittedly, the reference to “Adam’s Tongue” is most likely an over read, but in theory it could be a literary counterpoint (hence the use of the word “perversion”). I put it out there to get opinions of how deep DESteve goes with layered meaning. After all, he is a master wordsmith and is extremely well read. A minor point: does the Indifference actually speak English or since Void-exposed we instinctively translate Void tongue to our native language? If the Indifference is truly an eternal entity, why would It deign to speak the coarse language of lesser things? To that point, isn’t the doppelganger that speaks “English” while the Man-in-the-Wall always speaks Void tongue? Are we really sure that they are one in the same? Lastly, while the Cavia were taught to speak by the Indifference, they came back speaking only Void tongue. Did they learn English from the Indifference or did the Cavia teach themselves after they returned? 3. Also agreed. I have no idea how convoluted DESteve is as a writer or wants it to be in the game. BUT … remember he has taken a very long time to get a comprehensible narrative out in the game. A narrative, I suspect, that he has had in detail, for a very long time. I'd make a strong bet that he's made some big progress in his own personal philosophy as he has worked on this gargantuan project. 4. Quite sensible and well-articulated; can’t really argue but consider this: The Void. It’s seems to be a really big place, able to hold a lot of stuff, which, for being nothing, is rather odd. But being “big” means that it has a lot of blank canvas. Plenty to go around for anyone or anything that happens to find itself in it. So Entrati’s first contact was just that - a discrete event. Need not get the entire place all twisted up over one measly point of contact. However, I agree with you that first contact would set up a nucleation site. Imprinting to use psychology. If you will bear with me another grab: “And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.” Far from the arrogant polymath, Entrati was terrified child when he came into direct contact with the Void. Overwhelmed, practically mindless; reduced to raw survival instinct. The Void, if a neutral medium and not a netherworldly denizen, would take the opposite: a calculating, focused predator. Like a baby, the Void would "collect" imprints from others (Granum, Dante, Vor, Natah) and develop an evermore complex and rich persona.
This was really good read, I like the symbolism here a lot!!! and to those on the post... I feel like DE's writing invokes all kind of philosophy but... Jungian is right up at the top. That being said, many include Jungian philosophy without ever knowing, it's just that relevant!
I already kinda guessed Drusus was a cephalon, ages ago I mean, it was pretty obvious, only in the weave does the skybox glow when someone speaks (specifically the cephalon) And it explained the Leverian, why it was just floating in space basically, it was kinda just a no-brainer to me, his design was a surprise though, most unique cephalon we've seen
I think Wallie knew we would welch on the deal... After all what could "he" want that a child could get? So he gave us void power, then waited for *something* that we can't do on our own, or with "his" help...
6:54 not all the cephalons we know were created as a punishment. Notably, Suda. Her webcomic released shortly before Octavia's Anthem showed she chose to become a Cephalon to combat her memory loss. As for Simaris and Otak, we arent sure as to why they were digitized. Thats not even going into Samodeous, the Zariman one, and the conclave cephalons. 38:00 I do think dante might have had at least some type of free will. Kullervo has been shown to as well I believe. Albeit they're from two different eras of warframe design with kullervo being the only known remaining prototype warframe iirc. Though before dante unbound its always seemed that drusus didn't know the true nature of the Tenno. Even asking what Nezha and a child could have in common.
She's really an outlier though. Even Nihil remarks that glassing into a cephalon was supposed to be the ultimate punishment, something Nora agrees with and Ordis kind of proves... Also, there is a comment loid makes saying that harboring a frame like dante would get people glassed... Seeming to insinuate this was Drusus' crime
I think that the Granum we know after his return from his void is actually the indifference but actual Granum must have died so that doppelganger lives as Granum would and will take advantage of those around the Tenno to make the Tenno give up something as part of the deal.
Or maybe the original Parvos Granum still lives and is being protected by his warframe, protea, imprisoned in his time temporal plane-thingy. Since he is stuck in there, his void version is not, so the Parvos we saw is his duplicate using his visage to manipulate us in some way. Yep, maybe to sweeten his part of the deal in his favor?
I'm also starting to think that our timeline has already been altered by Entrati in 1999. It could be that somehow ballas figured out how to make the Warframes sentient and Umbra was more of a failure than a success but ballas kept trying, this could explain when our Warframe acts on its own in the Second Dream or when Voruna stopped a continuity ritual involving its Tenno. The Warframes having a personality could be a mind fusion between the person who became a Warframe and the Tenno who uses that Warframe.
@@TheDsIEGE Also, the Sleeping in the cold below song says "There's a man on high with the devil in his eyes and a golden hand, I'm told.". It could be refering to his merciless methods but it could mean that Granum has the void eyes of the Man in the Wall. czcams.com/video/-EtOAaK19bA/video.html
It would have been a nice luttle touch to only aend Drussus' message (and give access to this mission) to those that have donated over a certain amount of credits (10k seems reasonable). It would make him calling us a friend of the Leverian ring a bit more true, and make him coming to us for help feel more natural. Though, as most new frame missions do, this whole thing does suffer from the problem of retroactively conjuring up a character and saying they've always been important to existing characters; at least the classically eldritch tale of Dante's last moment's has rekindled my hope that they may do Wally justice going forward.
@@notsae66 Or any mentioning or appreciation at all. I know I gave a few million, but that was clearly not enough. The Leverian seems to be a bottomless barrel, well, of course one could argue that the same could be said about every other enterprise 😄
Parvos' philosophy was always a pyramid scheme. It was a bit disappointing the first time I heard it, but in retrospect it makes perfect sense to be the basis of Corpus dogma. He came up with the revolutionary idea of getting people to follow him by giving them false hope instead of simple fear. The Orokin chained people with the threat of horrific punishment if they should disobey. It was horrifically cruel, but honest. The Corpus chain people by telling them they chose to be in this situation, and with hard work they can pull themselves up by their bootstraps and be a billionaire too... some day... None of this really sounds like anything close to Wally. They sound like someone who was jealous of his oppressors and wanted to become them, but feel like he was different.
When Drusus says that Parvos also spoke in the same language as the indifference I took that to mean that as the Indifference tempted Dante with eldritch knowledge, Parvos tempted Drusus similarly with any number of things but that was just first thing that came to mind.
"we are desire, We are corpus" sounds like the pitch for a box store on tier with B&L from WALL-E idle thought on warframe free will and if they are insane. In the Umbra quest you find out "We took our greatest, volunteers or not, and polluted them with these cultured reagents. They transformed. They became infested…" Theory, the sane ones like Dante were the volunteers who went in knowing what they were getting into.
Regarding the point at the end, we don't really know how long of a time period it was from Warframe's first being created, to them turning savage and turning on the Orokin, to finally Warframes being used as proxies for the Tenno. Its quite possible that it was a LONG time and that many of the warframe's lore (mirage, limbo, atlas, etc) were what the Warframes did before they went savage. So it's also possible that Dante never had a tenno. Edit: I just thought of this but Dagath's story make a LOT more sense if dagath never had a Tenno.
Danthe isn't the only warframe that is perceived to be their own entity. Mirage, Limbo, Titania, and all others with their own quest, except Harrow, are also addressed as the warframe being the sole reason of the action regarding their heroic stance and not the Tenno being involved. At first before the the actual children of the Tenno -The Second Dream and Chains of Harrow- the warframe were heavily speculated to be their own entities, but having something underneath controlling them, due to our view point when in control and other bits of hidden lore. But after the revelation of the Z-10 Orphan childs of the Void, the same mannerisms of addressing / honourifics were still in place as before. The warframe being the center point of the story they are involved in without the mention or notions of the ones "postulated" in control, even in their sacrifice. - For some reason they all have that in common.
So... I really do think there's some latitude with those characters.... Mirage specifically, is mentioned as a weapon and is specifically said to have been in use by an operator, the last dialogue we receive, and I think it's supposed be made vague. In the end, I'm not sure we're ever going to be allowed to know 100% purposefully, but... it is fun to speculate one way or another and there's a ton of evidence for both.
Amazing work, as always. I really loved collecting Granum's Tenets from the Corpus ships. I'm extremely excited they connected those up to what we're dealing with the Indifference. And I'm bowled over at how impressive and creative the Dante Unbound update has been. On the surface, not terribly a lot of content per se, but the way they continue to interconnect more of the world together, and how horrifying it is that the Indifference has not only been influencing so many for so long, but has been a primary driving force in at least one of the main factions we fight on a regular basis. I can barely articulate how amazing a job DE have done here, not only in their ability to continue to build characters and lore, but make them into gameplay, AND...this type of content, which surely would've been amazing as a cinematic quest...was still done really creatively as a smaller slice of content...while still being insanely impactful. Literally no other game in this genre, and likely some other genres, do this.
I need more lore deep dives in my life I have a mean dante build and have several days in the sanctum and still have no idea wtf is happening cause everyone decides to talk while I'm airstriking murmurs with my grinoire and the amount of sounds happening at once is to much I can't pay attention to the story when it's presented like this 😢
I always had the thought that certain frames only existed as a singular example, because it's obvious that other frames were made on mass, such as Excalibur, Volt, Mag, Rhino and Loki. But then other frames like Gara, Protea, Lavos, Citrine and maybe even Dante were only made once, I have 2 possible explanations for this: One reason could be that the people that these frames once were had special traits or abilities that interested the Orokin, and so just like other people, they were willingly or not turned into Warframes, but they became highly specialised frames that could never be realistically repeated. Or it could be something similar to how Stalker became a Warframe, people who knew about the Warframe creation process and underwent it themselves, moulding themselves into these specific frames, making them unique, and in these examples possessed a similar sentience like Stalker's and Umbra's, but in the cases where we get to pilot them, they aren't the originals, so they lack their ability for sentience, I think Dante may have been one of these frames, given how he's spoken about as if the frame himself is a person, regardless on whether someone knows about the Operators or not, however I could be wrong on this and I might be reading too much into it. I still believe that some frames were only made once, specifically those frames that have quests dedicated to them, such as Limbo, Mirage, Chroma and Revenant, although these frames most likely did have Operators unlike some of the others I mentioned, with exception to a few.
Left field idea: the Man-in-the-Wall is a metaphor for innocence lost. That, before being exposed to “our” world, “It” was truly a blank slate which Entrati mistook for indifference. He also failed to recognize a consciousness that was grappling with its own birth, having to assemble a framework of its own that could contend with its manifestation which was limited - or even crippled - by what was available. Namely Entrati’s incoherence.
Part of me suspects that Dante was a normal human when fighting with the void-touched book, and rather than let him die, turned him into a Warframe. Annnnnnd then Loid goes and confirms Dante was a Warframe before the fight.
The amount of foreshadowing that's been going on with Parvos coming home to roost is really impressive. It's easy to glance over his "whispers" as an aggrandizing, mystifying mythology to better draw in followers, his tale of an imaginary sister merely an eccentricity, the "devil in his eye" a poetic metaphor for acquisitive cunning or his personal Protea. But now we learn that he was witnessed uttering voidtongue in the distant past, and his severed-yet-grasping hand and quest to build "a new body" through the Corpus are clearly cast in a different light.
We don't know for sure Drusis committed a crime to become a cephalon. Suda, at least, was an aging archemedan who wished to preserve her slowly decayjng mind and became a cephalon by choice to preserve her knowledge. Also, I felt Loid's comments on the warframes were clear. The warframes, prior to the Tenno's return from the void, acted as independent soldiers. We know this from the Umbra quest. They went mad, and the project was scrapped. What we have learned, however, is that some Frames did not go mad and were, in fact, loyal soldiers, but were marked as fugitives when the Warframe Initiative was deemed a failure. Ballas even alludes to the fact that some early frames were willing participants.
What is parvo's searching for? An idea, I have. He wanted a specter of sort, a sister. He had one at the beginning of the deadlock protocol Quest. Protea. Pat, she had sacrificed herself to help parvos escape his prison. What if he was looking through the archives of the entraini, for another Protea resurrecting his beautiful protea? a protea prime? The Warframe to have two fathers? The Oregon manufacturer, and parvos himself.
I'm usually a silent watcher, dont like or comment mostly out of it not being habit, but every time i see one of your videos i always try to make a mental note of it (although sometimes unsuccessfully, adhd is a bitch). Your videos are just so well crafted and captivating and you bring up such good theories and points in all your videos it really makes you think about the nature of the Warframe universe and the possibilites it could entail. Love your work Siege
Haha! My take too. Think Elon, Jeff, Bill, Edison, all of the robber barons of the 20th, and every Alexander, Khan, and Napoleon all rolled into one ginormous Pokémon collector into one. Then think of how incomprehensible your subscription bill would look.
@@Ydrakar Not likely. Parvos was able to escape the granum void via Protea scanning our warframes, and offering parvos time to escape conserving his youth and body from decay. From what I understand, he is now chairman of his own branch of the corpus. And this whole levarian thing is a business deal
I don't know if I would say parvos is the indifference yet, since we see him express sentiment for the stuff we send him during the back and forth between Drusus and him something wally just don't do being the indifference and all. But I can see Parvos making his own deal with Wally, maybe when his ship went up and he got trapped in the void. Maybe it was how he survived all this time there, along with protea altering time, in turn being willing a conduit or extension for the void kind of like us.
I know of no creature in the warframe universe that both understands and can speak voidtongue that hasn't been visited by the man in the wall. Can you think of any?
Kinda oftopic but Granum calling the Void Entity or the great indifference The Voice of Desire is very fitting considering the void is also embodying desire right now. Also ontop of this, can it be possible that the Void always tried to enter our domain but only now has its chance since the void portal is open. it manipulated probably a bunch of people into such paths as Parvos.
After seeing a load of the Granum stuff you've brought up in recent videos, I have to say I am starting to think he is already part of the indifference. Also, I am starting to get the feeling that the lich content for the game is based on deals with the indifference, kuva liches through the blood of the indifference being shared, the sister liches being from a deal with the Granum indifference. The infested liches may even have something to do with him as well, but we will have to wait for Tennocon so see whether that is true or not. I believe our deal with him also made us a lich, considered a demon to all. I think it may have to do with how he gains control, first has to turn someone into something tied to himself in order to change what they are. The Helminth has a few voice lines when your Operator/Drifter walks into his room that reinforce this kind of idea. First being "We fear nothing but the void demon" which hints that the void demon has done something to the infestation that can actually instill fear into it. Helminth also says "Shadows grow in this demon" which I believe hints at the indifference growing inside us, which is also reinforced by dialogue while fighting the book demon fought in the Entrati Labs missions, with the Cavia stating you can't kill a shadow, you have to get rid of what's casting it. I believe our "light" is what has allowed us to retain our own ego within our "demon" body, however with great light comes a great shadow. (Also think that the light may be something we learn more about in 1999, but that's just me being hopeful.) Appreciate your videos as always TheDsIEGE! They always get me thinking about new things or about things I may have missed.
Interesting take, but your choice of words leads to error. Sister of Parvos arent liches, Lich is a designation for Kuva Blood infused Grineer experiments while Sister of Parvos are infused with Granum Void Energy. The power of the void breaks their continuity, and thus allows us to take their lives.
@loremasterdasmodeus8285 Still means the same thing in theory. I was talking about liches as in the mechanics, undying enemy you have to hunt down. Likely, that infested version won't be called lich either, but they will likely work the same, severing a tether to the void through mechanics so you can kill something that is undying. So I think I may be right. We will have to wait for Granum to appear again to find out. Also, Tennocon for Infested "liches" info. Also, term lich comes from fantastical term for undead made by fracturing the soul into a philactory, allowing rebirth from the item. Edit: Also if your right about helminth dialogue then that is cool but everyone I've seen in videos has been same as mine, so have to research that myself sometime.
About the Leverian: I dont have the absolute amount, but I can estimate. In every first interaction with the new Leverians I've paid about 500000-1000000 to each and every one. Everytime I am either streaming/explaining things to my friends and associates I've would donate 100000-300000 to any of the Leverians I would interact with. When I was searching for the Prex Cards I've donated another 1000000 for card found, and 200000 if no card was found at the time (I've failed to find some and then returned later). I've might have donated over 50 million credits at this time, it sounds crazy but the donations end up adding up after some years. I wonder how much does costs the Leverian to be kept running?
@TheDsIEGE are you by any chance also Legacy of Kain Enthusiast like myself? I couldn't help but notice that you sprinkle some references of said frenchise in your videos, which piqued my interest.🧐 It is such a delight to see other people still mentioning the series. 😊
I still believe that warframes had autonomy and that them going "feral" was an Orokin propoganda to hide their "uprising" so to speak. As evident with the Zeriman incident before the jump, there was already an uprising there, and the Orokin did all they can to force those people to commit the jump even down to sabotaging the food supply. And after all said and done, they just covered the whole thing up like it never happened. Whose to say they didn't exaggerate the Warframes' "feral behavior"?
I think the reason Parvos' payment is basically whatever Drusus can supply from the labs, is because Parvos has made a deal. Like in his youth, he has taken out a loan. Parvos simply hasn't found what counts as payment to the Man In The Wall. This deal could have been made long ago. Perhaps before the Zariman. And only now that the Kalymos Sequence has begun and the labs are revealed can Parvos fulfill it. And the Indifference's habit of making deals and a sense that they should be honored may simply be a belief that was instilled BY Granum. The Indifference seeing someone taking what they wish and getting what they want, and choosing to emulate it.
While I’m a bit late to the party something I thought of when it came to the idea of Dante was the frame or the Tenno, I think that it was a hybrid, like Rell and Horrow as it seemed like the frame and the Tenno merged to some extent, also something to keep in mind is that some frames seem to also have had this be the case
I gave him 1mil Credits for every existing Leverian exhibit as well as for every "Donate to Leverian" Nightwave challenge. Over the years, it has to be a *very* generous sum.
Yeah, considering just how wealthy and powerful individual Tenno are, its very surprising to me that Drussus managed to go bankrupt; you'd think having millions of exceptionally wealthy patrons willing to casually throw out absurd lumps of money would be enough, but evidently Drussus is dogspit and math.
Awesome video as always. and as always, made me think... hard.... When I played the quest with Parvos Granum, and follow up on the story of his origin... I didn't connect the voice he ehars with the void... I was litterally thinking the guy was mad and was hearing voices... But that IS the point of the man in tha wall... It makes perfect sence that Granum heard it... But that would mean he heard it much before he was exposed to the void... Or anywhere near it... So... It means the indifferance can rach out, even if harrow and Rell were still guarding this world...
The more I see it, the more I think that the void is like warp(Warhammer) and void-born entities like the indifference (and probably others like desire, hatred, sorrow, etc) are trying to reach to the other side and expand their influence on the material realm (the materium) similar to to what chaos gods are doing. My theory is that Ballas, Hunhow, Parvos, Albrech and ourself (the Tenno) have all been approach by one of those entities at some point (oh and apparently Baro too XD but ofc he would, dude is consistently traveling in the void).
I think it's possible that the intelligence of warframe varies. Perhaps prior to the tenno coming into the picture they allowed a higher degree of 'self'
Actually, we do have confirmation of at least one Warframe that functioned and operated without the Tenno. Something I didn't know when you made that video on the matter, which is why I argued against the idea then. The game actually spells it out for you: Kullervo operated independently from the Tenno. We know this because in Kullervo's hold, where his crimes are listed, we get a timeline, as told by the Warden. His second crime confirms that he is a Proto-Frame, one who was built before the arrival of the Zariman and before the discovery of transference and that he had the freedom to act. It also confirms however that the vast majority of Proto-Warframes were not sapient. "You witnessed the slaughter as the Orokin eradicated your defective, demented brothers and sisters... and did nothing to aid them, choosing to tremble in your cowardly seclusion. A traitor twice over. Kullervo, bloody-handed, I charge you with Cowardice." His fourth and fith crimes confirm that this happened before the arrival of the Tenno and that, once they arrived, he still acted independently of them. "Upon the arrival of the wretched Tenno, you struck. Out of, what, a desire for redemption? You thought to strike the Orokin where it hurt: their laboratories, their edifices of government, their homes. To distract. To buy time. Idiot. You are charged with Treason." "You saw the new generation of your kind and the Tenno whose deviltry blent with theirs; and you began to whisper corruption into their ears, weave dark thoughts through the coils of their minds. Incepting, as is your wont, chaos and disaster. You are charged with Espionage." From this and Dante, I would dare say: There were *some* Warframes who did not go insane or degenerate into monsters, and they were either spared or managed to avoid extermination at the hands of the Orokin. However, I would also say: They were likely among the exceptions. We shouldn't assume that every lore entry that uses a Warframe as a character without mentioning the Tenno implies that this Warframe was sapient. Most people likely did not know the secret of transference or know what the Tenno were, so they would have only observed the Warframes and maybe assume that Ballas simply managed to eliminate whatever had been the fault with the first generation of frames.
As for the "Madness", I think the explanation is much easier. It's not about the feral state of the original frames, it's about their betrayal at the hands of the Lotus (and indirectly, possibly Ballas) which led to the death of all but one Executioners and the collapse of the Orokin Empire. The Nights of the Naga Drums, as it's referred to. If Dante was a sapient Proto-frame without an Operator, he wouldn't have been under the influence of the Lotus and therefore he would not have participated in the slaughter.
I'm seriously wondering more and more what exactly the deal between the tenno and the indifference really entailed, did we really give it something to save everyone or did it force us to take something in exchange?
There was 1 piece of doalog hinting that Parvos is looking for the book and wants to open it so he can speak with wally. I saw it floating around in a screenshot. And I have giving the Leverian several million credits, I don't actually remember how much. I have giving him 1mil each time I visit, but I have also given 2mil and 5mil a couple of times.
39:12 this line specifically kinda annoys me because a question I've had for ages is "do warframes have their own voice?" because i find it hard to believe that anyone in the warframe universe is surprised that the frames are controlled by children if they all sound like children when they talk. And i came to the conclusion that obviously they have their own voice as frames like valkyr and dagath scream with a unique voice but this line says no they can't talk, so apparently everyone in the warframe universe was surprised that the child sounding frames are controlled by children.
I wouldn't say that's necessarily a contradiction. I mean, Valkyr still screams in a female voice when you play a male Operator. Not being able to speak is different from not having a voice. My assumption would be that at least some Warframes do have a voice that lets them roar or scream, but lack the lips and tongue needed to actually form words. Loid literally says that the creators of the Warframes intended for them to only be able to scream, roar or howl. With Warframes being unable to speak, I doubt that the Operators would have picked up the slack. They were in the Second Dream, they weren't even quite aware of themselves. Our Operator never says a word until the end of the Second Dream. I think everyone assumed the Warframes to be mute, communicating only through gestures.
Since you talked about shaking hands making deals 🤝 also at the end of the new war when de man in the wall appears and the lotus try to close the void portal and he vanished you can clearly see that the hands of the lotus is smoking almost if they made a deal and shook her hands with it because why was her hands smoking after he vanished and not at the start of closing the void portal idk what do you guys think?
Ok, so here's how you have to get that dialogue. Find all the cephalon fragments from each planet and then go into the codex under fragments, and move your cursor around the picture until you find the spot that reveals the dialogue. There's a piece of the story in every fragment
Correct me if i'm wrong but I thought the original warframes were helminith mutated dax with autonomy, and it was after this 'madness event' they needed tenno to 'soothe' and control them. Hence Umbra being his own bloke.
I've given out at least 7 million credits to that place and I wanna know where my investments went -_-. Also I personally stand with the theory that the warframes were made, used as powerful soldiers across the system, then something broke in them. When the Tenno were found, the experiments showed that these children could not only control 1 powerful frame but be able to control multiple individual ones at separate times. If one warframe was enough to be a body guard of an Orokin then these children controlling varieties of super soldiers would certainly be demonic.
If you were given the opportunity to give The Collector of Knowledge a name... What would it be? Amazing work as always... Swazdo-lah surah... Stay strong guardian... Be safe...
Pretty sure according to lore and our own characters literally, my take is that Parvos DIED on his assassination attempt and in that instant, two realities were created. Parvos being dead in our original universe, one that lived the moment his tomb was opened. As why would Parvos remain stuck there for all this time without coming up with a plan for escape? Would explain why he is fluent in voidtongue especially given the fact that if he was in stasis all this time which would not make sense the more I read WHY he was locked in stasis only to break free the MOMENT his tomb is opened....I just think he's another product of the void like the Tenno are. Parvos is very dead.
To me, it seems like the Voidtongue Parvos speaks is or at least has to do with his Tenets. They're obviously important fir the Sisters, their weapons and maybe even their immortality. We know why Kuva Liches don't die, it's in their name, so why not the same with the sisters? What if the Tenets are Voidtongue words given to Parvos that hold the same command over members of his corpus (or at least those who follow all the Tenets) that Kuva does over Dax?
40:00 I actually think you're on the wrong track here. Especially when you look at the last events or the way characters talk to us, you realise that they are aware that there are several Tenno travelling through the solar system. The amount of Tenno you see in the story sequences are simply us - the players. Each player can have several warframes. There are also Tenno, like Limbo or Mirage, which transform into Warframes and Warframes like the Stalker or Excalibur Umbral, which retain their consciousness and travel around independently. Umbral is even so wilful that he has retained his consciousness even since he has been living with us. It is quite conceivable that Dante himself wrote his own writings in the form of a Warframe. The Dante we play is of course not this Dante. We will never meet this Dante in the game.
I’ve given the leverian about 30m I capped the credit amount and I felt bad then donated a lot. I actually like the guy, really good video btw I enjoy watching and listening to you while I work
@@TheDsIEGE yeah, I bet the deal he made was something like, "you'll do something ambiguous that we don't know anything about in the future for me, and I'll make sure you'll get rich and powerful af"
But the question then becomes, how did Wally even manage to be able to interact with him in the first place? Cause based on what we know so far, Wally only gets in contact with people once they've come in contact with The Void itself, or a Void key I suppose in Vor's case..
@@Alexus00712 There is something else we are missing with Wally and the Indifference. To me, he seems to be operating similar to like what Doctor Manhattan did in the New 52 comics and Doomsday Clock, where destiny and fate tell him to act. With Paavos, it is looking to me like there are times where the Indifference is setting things in motion for the future in the form of deals, then Wally is coming in to call in that deal, but does not seem to be the same being in each instance, apart from the Tenno's interactions. It is almost like the Tenno are acting like a focal point for all of the Indifference's behaviours both in the past and the future. It would not surprise me in the slightest to learn that Albrecht met the Man in the Wall during his Void travel experiment in direct response to the Tenno not handing over the page as Wally wanted.
Hi i just wanted inform you that you probably missed the reason why drusius got glass Loid talking about how protecting these rogue frames would result in punishment and drusius being friends with dante sorta hinting to this.
@@azzubairfaruq3124No, it seems Albrecht brought the Helminth strain back with him and created his partial warframes in the past to combat whatever's going on back then. Them still having their conciousness and faces is explicitly because Albrecht is less of a total dickbag than Ballas, who purposefully and deliberately chose to rob the frames of the ability to speak for the evulz.
One thing I realized... Drusus says "until the sun goes dark". Albrecht says "we die with the sun". The Man in the wall appears at the end of the New war when the Sun is being sucked away. The Man in the wall did not want us to leave the Origin system with the Sun in the center. What if... The Man in the wall is afraid of losing the Sun? The light.
Harrow wasn't independent, if what Palladino says is to be believed. Rell fully merged with his Harrow frame, abandoning his old body to permanently lock himself in Harrow, which itself brings up an interesting point. The Lotus didn't originally know of Rell, because he was rejected before she took the role of guardian to the Tenno. What if there are others? Could there be "Tenno-less" frames that simply merged with their operators like Rell did?
Oh so now you ask why there havnt been any other Tenno characters in the field besides us. (Especially in the new war: were they too stabbed by Ballas?!)
Correct me if im wrong, but doesn't the void react to strong thoughts, emotions and dare i say it desire. If yes the could it be a connection between parvos and the void.
I actually donated a couple million credits to the Leverian, i wonder if every single Tenno donated to the Leverian that this might've not happened at all
Warframe: buyer's remorse
LOLOL, you ain't kidding!!!
Seller's remorse?
@@derekspringer6448 it is the feeling of sadness or regret after selling a commodity that has emotional and financial value to the seller.
me every time I buy platinum instead of selling stuff and then regretting it
Warframe: Buy things that you don't need
Drusus' voice actor does such a great job at sounding tired and regretful of the 'investment' he's made.
So good. In fact... most of warframe's VA's are just killing it right now!
@@TheDsIEGE Right ??
A savvy investor he wasn't
Drusus didn't necessarily do something criminal to become a Cephalon, Suda williningly volunteered to be transformed in order to prevent a slow decay into alzheimers. It being voluntary would also explain why he still has so much of a human personality and retains his memories; the process that turned Ordan Karris into Ordis wasn't undergone, and Drusus was allowed to keep his mind and personality, his self.
Meaning that the transformation into a Cephalon is not only a punishment, but a choice for those willing to take that loss of a body for some form of betterment of the future
Suda is an archivist
Drusus is a historian
@@glowdonk immortality can be a gift to some but a curse to others
@@glowdonk And then you have Cephalons like Sark, lol
Loid makes a statement insinuating he was glassed for harboring warframes, as well as Nihil explaining the process was made as a punishment. Suda taking the punishment on her own doesn't necessarily mean it's not punishment and from what Ordis explains, the subject loses MUCH of itself in the process.
It's the same with Warframes, some Warframes were created without consent but others were, Gara Prime as an example asked to be turned into a warframe. I imagine for some it was quite the honor, little did they know the horror they'd go through.
Excellent study, Seige. Impressions:
1. There is a convergence in Warframe: that of ancient Hindu thought regarding creation as a dream and the modern digital age notion of existence as a virtual reality.
2. The language of the Void evokes Biblical themes of the First Language - "Adam's Tongue" - that began in the Garden of Eden and was in use amongst men until the fall of the Tower of Babble. Purportedly, that language framed the highest meaning, one which the act of naming (such as the beasts), provided divine understanding of its nature and true purpose. Void tongue is an antithesis, a perversion of ultimate understanding, but perverted by what? The Void itself? Or by the pollution of human contact (notables: Entrati, Granum, Natah, even the Tenno).
3. The loss of Granum's hand ostensibly speaks to medieval punishment but there may be deeper connections to classical mystic/theological traditions (Tyr, Vishpla, Tezcatlipoca, etc).
4. If the Void is truly that - a void, empty and formless - then the Man in the Wall is not the Devil or an Eldritch god, but the Shadow - the unrecognized, abandoned, unconscious self. In this view, there are many who lost the confrontation with their shadow and were consumed by it - Entrati, Granum, Dante, amongst others. As the Tenno are US, the question that DESteve may be posing is: Will you too fail? Will you face that inner darkness and emerge anew? Whole?
I end this speculation from something from the lore, when Sythel says: "The first scholar looked into the Void and he feared it. And his fear took shape. Do you understand? That's how all this started."
Thus, I ask you: how different might the Void be if it wasn't fear that It first felt - its first imprinting - but rather wonder. Or daresay acceptance?
5. Leverian's final remarks about the Void is almost an inversion of the Cartesian maximum Cogito ergo sum: Ego sum quia videor (I am because I am seen).
All of your points are absolutely astounding. And I’ve no doubt, given the metaphorical, metaphysical, and mystical studies the writers have similar ideas.
Point 4 is particularly astute, as it follows DeSeige’s video from over a year ago explaining the shadow concept and how the War Within, the “coin” choices we make, and the seeming darkness of our void alter ego all reflect that same Jungian thought.
If this is true, then all we’ve done up to this point will eventually lead to something big, and possibly dark.
Every ounce of WF revolves around the struggle to be human. Every enemy was either once human, or at least human created. Every creature, redesigned by humans to replace the extinct earth habitats. Every struggle, human against human. And the Indifference had to go and make it plain as day: for he chose the Vitruvian Man as the image he presents to us. Man’s idea of human perfection…yet corrupted at the head, the seat of our mind and morality.
Ooh … I really dig your take on the meaning behind Wally’s chewed up head (or is it a mind blown?). Literally he has bitten off even than he can take - or should. Everything is unbridled. For isn’t the real abyss one of no restraint? Wally might be a crafty fellow but that doesn’t make him wise.
A parting thought: the “finale” need not necessarily be dark. Big yes, but if DESteve plays his RPG cards right, we actually maybe in for a rare gaming treat … our choices (based upon the cut scene dialogues throughout the main quests) have consequences of future gameplay. If you chose “harsh” options - you get damage buffs. For “eternal optimism” a DR buff. And for the “balanced” response, stronger companions.
Sure would get a stir and if I’ve learned anything about DESteve by playing his game on and off for a decade is that he loves stirring.
Criticisms:
1. Creation is not a “dream” in any context of Warframe. Even conceptually embodied entities are explicitly real. The realness of them, their guilt, and their unfinished duty make a pretty strong point in that direction. The holdfasts exemplify this. Warframe leans pretty heavily into “your real” and “my real.” What was created that lines up with this dream notion? Duviri was a realm we know was truly created from the ground up, and yet it feels much more dreamlike than any place within true creation.
2. Why is it a perversion? The man in the wall is obviously this eldritch being of an incomprehensible existence. If you’ve ever played bloodborne, you can think of the voidtongue as runes of old ones. Essentially glyphs that are true because they embody a core tenet of reality. The wall of bone, the wall of lohk, Mara lohk. It would be impossible to say this word is being used improperly, when it can clearly be translated. Jahu gargoyle, not to mention that the voidtongue wasn’t created by any reflection of albrecht’s consciousness. It was created by the void itself. Man in the wall speaks plain English to us. Which means the voidtongue isn’t merely just some reflection of language. It’s a simplification of language, in a way that allows extensive concepts to be made clear in a few words. Super common trope in eldritch horror. Also, the requiem mods, in order from 1-4 and left to right, make a poem. I would imagine reading the voidtongue words, in that order, conveys a similar meaning to the poem.
3. Loss of granum’s hand is impossible for me, or really anyone to make an assumption on. I think it’s more just the symbol of the hand and the symbol of gold being used in conjunction rather than a hidden mythology reference.
4. Sort of. Maybe. That’s the common theory, right? But the lotus knows waaaaaaaay more than she’s letting on. Our man in the wall isn’t albrecht’s. That much is clear, from a million dialogues. Yonta talking about the reliquary drives especially. To say the massive, infinite dimensional entity that’s a literal embodiment of endless presents and mirrors whatever consciousness it encounters, it’s an eldritch god. It’s likely the void itself. It exists on a level so far above and beyond the mere jungian shadow. It offers deals to multiple people. You’re allowed to say the void became what it is because of the first person who went in, but that’s a story that’s already written. There’s no agency in that story. Albrecht doomed the world, game over. I don’t believe the void is merely a manifestation of the first fear it encountered. Quite frankly, I’m not sure what albrecht’s shadow would be. He was absolutely shameless until after everything happened. It’s every now, every emotion, all of everything that can’t be touched but can be seen.
4. Yeah. No arguments there. To exist you need to be observed. To interact with forces that can confirm your existence. “Realness” is not subjective in Warframe. Everything that can happen did happen. But to bring those myriad realities together is to actively deny thousands of realities, thousands of selves. If those thousands of realities are never witnessed they never occurred, for all intents and purposes. The phrase “what did you see?” And “what do you remember” are always VERY important.
@@HarrowedDweeb Great post. Really enjoyed it. Hopefully, I will do it proper justice.
First, a disclaimer. In no way do I consider myself a lore authority; nor do I have any insider knowledge. Just another avid player who enjoys ruminating.
Regarding specifics:
1. Agreed; the characters are not figments, they are “real”. My remark was strictly literary thematic one.
2. You are most likely correct; that the Void Entity is a Lovecraftian thing. Nevertheless, I get a lot of psychology vibes, particularly during the War Within quest. Nice summary about the Void Tongue glyphs and yes, I see the homage to Bloodborne. Admittedly, the reference to “Adam’s Tongue” is most likely an over read, but in theory it could be a literary counterpoint (hence the use of the word “perversion”). I put it out there to get opinions of how deep DESteve goes with layered meaning. After all, he is a master wordsmith and is extremely well read. A minor point: does the Indifference actually speak English or since Void-exposed we instinctively translate Void tongue to our native language? If the Indifference is truly an eternal entity, why would It deign to speak the coarse language of lesser things? To that point, isn’t the doppelganger that speaks “English” while the Man-in-the-Wall always speaks Void tongue? Are we really sure that they are one in the same? Lastly, while the Cavia were taught to speak by the Indifference, they came back speaking only Void tongue. Did they learn English from the Indifference or did the Cavia teach themselves after they returned?
3. Also agreed. I have no idea how convoluted DESteve is as a writer or wants it to be in the game. BUT … remember he has taken a very long time to get a comprehensible narrative out in the game. A narrative, I suspect, that he has had in detail, for a very long time. I'd make a strong bet that he's made some big progress in his own personal philosophy as he has worked on this gargantuan project.
4. Quite sensible and well-articulated; can’t really argue but consider this: The Void. It’s seems to be a really big place, able to hold a lot of stuff, which, for being nothing, is rather odd. But being “big” means that it has a lot of blank canvas. Plenty to go around for anyone or anything that happens to find itself in it. So Entrati’s first contact was just that - a discrete event. Need not get the entire place all twisted up over one measly point of contact. However, I agree with you that first contact would set up a nucleation site. Imprinting to use psychology. If you will bear with me another grab: “And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.” Far from the arrogant polymath, Entrati was terrified child when he came into direct contact with the Void. Overwhelmed, practically mindless; reduced to raw survival instinct. The Void, if a neutral medium and not a netherworldly denizen, would take the opposite: a calculating, focused predator. Like a baby, the Void would "collect" imprints from others (Granum, Dante, Vor, Natah) and develop an evermore complex and rich persona.
This was really good read, I like the symbolism here a lot!!! and to those on the post... I feel like DE's writing invokes all kind of philosophy but... Jungian is right up at the top. That being said, many include Jungian philosophy without ever knowing, it's just that relevant!
I already kinda guessed Drusus was a cephalon, ages ago
I mean, it was pretty obvious, only in the weave does the skybox glow when someone speaks (specifically the cephalon)
And it explained the Leverian, why it was just floating in space basically, it was kinda just a no-brainer to me, his design was a surprise though, most unique cephalon we've seen
I think Wallie knew we would welch on the deal...
After all what could "he" want that a child could get?
So he gave us void power, then waited for *something* that we can't do on our own, or with "his" help...
He is a sneaky little beaver, isn't he, lol
6:54 not all the cephalons we know were created as a punishment. Notably, Suda. Her webcomic released shortly before Octavia's Anthem showed she chose to become a Cephalon to combat her memory loss.
As for Simaris and Otak, we arent sure as to why they were digitized. Thats not even going into Samodeous, the Zariman one, and the conclave cephalons.
38:00 I do think dante might have had at least some type of free will. Kullervo has been shown to as well I believe. Albeit they're from two different eras of warframe design with kullervo being the only known remaining prototype warframe iirc. Though before dante unbound its always seemed that drusus didn't know the true nature of the Tenno. Even asking what Nezha and a child could have in common.
She's really an outlier though. Even Nihil remarks that glassing into a cephalon was supposed to be the ultimate punishment, something Nora agrees with and Ordis kind of proves... Also, there is a comment loid makes saying that harboring a frame like dante would get people glassed... Seeming to insinuate this was Drusus' crime
I think that the Granum we know after his return from his void is actually the indifference but actual Granum must have died so that doppelganger lives as Granum would and will take advantage of those around the Tenno to make the Tenno give up something as part of the deal.
I was thinking that too. And I wonder if that doesn't pertain to other characters as well...
Or maybe the original Parvos Granum still lives and is being protected by his warframe, protea, imprisoned in his time temporal plane-thingy. Since he is stuck in there, his void version is not, so the Parvos we saw is his duplicate using his visage to manipulate us in some way. Yep, maybe to sweeten his part of the deal in his favor?
I'm also starting to think that our timeline has already been altered by Entrati in 1999. It could be that somehow ballas figured out how to make the Warframes sentient and Umbra was more of a failure than a success but ballas kept trying, this could explain when our Warframe acts on its own in the Second Dream or when Voruna stopped a continuity ritual involving its Tenno. The Warframes having a personality could be a mind fusion between the person who became a Warframe and the Tenno who uses that Warframe.
@@TheDsIEGE Also, the Sleeping in the cold below song says "There's a man on high with the devil in his eyes and a golden hand, I'm told.". It could be refering to his merciless methods but it could mean that Granum has the void eyes of the Man in the Wall.
czcams.com/video/-EtOAaK19bA/video.html
I think I gave a single credit to the historian, and now he comes to us to aquire power relics. I see this as a absolute win.
Yeah, you got a deal. I paid over 10 mil...
@@TheDsIEGE 😂
It would have been a nice luttle touch to only aend Drussus' message (and give access to this mission) to those that have donated over a certain amount of credits (10k seems reasonable). It would make him calling us a friend of the Leverian ring a bit more true, and make him coming to us for help feel more natural. Though, as most new frame missions do, this whole thing does suffer from the problem of retroactively conjuring up a character and saying they've always been important to existing characters; at least the classically eldritch tale of Dante's last moment's has rekindled my hope that they may do Wally justice going forward.
@@notsae66 Or any mentioning or appreciation at all. I know I gave a few million, but that was clearly not enough. The Leverian seems to be a bottomless barrel, well, of course one could argue that the same could be said about every other enterprise 😄
I hope the jade shadow update eventually lets us get ordis/drusus his body. But they said it'll tie into Stalker's lore with the frame or so.
Parvos' philosophy was always a pyramid scheme. It was a bit disappointing the first time I heard it, but in retrospect it makes perfect sense to be the basis of Corpus dogma. He came up with the revolutionary idea of getting people to follow him by giving them false hope instead of simple fear. The Orokin chained people with the threat of horrific punishment if they should disobey. It was horrifically cruel, but honest. The Corpus chain people by telling them they chose to be in this situation, and with hard work they can pull themselves up by their bootstraps and be a billionaire too... some day... None of this really sounds like anything close to Wally. They sound like someone who was jealous of his oppressors and wanted to become them, but feel like he was different.
Always... Good catch!
thinking of "do or die" as a choice to be made is a fallacy on its own.
When Drusus says that Parvos also spoke in the same language as the indifference I took that to mean that as the Indifference tempted Dante with eldritch knowledge, Parvos tempted Drusus similarly with any number of things but that was just first thing that came to mind.
So... The thing is, I've never known anyone to speak voidtongue without some kind of tie... That part really makes things... awkward let's say
"we are desire, We are corpus" sounds like the pitch for a box store on tier with B&L from WALL-E
idle thought on warframe free will and if they are insane. In the Umbra quest you find out "We took our greatest, volunteers or not, and polluted them with these cultured reagents. They transformed. They became infested…" Theory, the sane ones like Dante were the volunteers who went in knowing what they were getting into.
Regarding the point at the end, we don't really know how long of a time period it was from Warframe's first being created, to them turning savage and turning on the Orokin, to finally Warframes being used as proxies for the Tenno. Its quite possible that it was a LONG time and that many of the warframe's lore (mirage, limbo, atlas, etc) were what the Warframes did before they went savage. So it's also possible that Dante never had a tenno.
Edit: I just thought of this but Dagath's story make a LOT more sense if dagath never had a Tenno.
Danthe isn't the only warframe that is perceived to be their own entity. Mirage, Limbo, Titania, and all others with their own quest, except Harrow, are also addressed as the warframe being the sole reason of the action regarding their heroic stance and not the Tenno being involved. At first before the the actual children of the Tenno -The Second Dream and Chains of Harrow- the warframe were heavily speculated to be their own entities, but having something underneath controlling them, due to our view point when in control and other bits of hidden lore. But after the revelation of the Z-10 Orphan childs of the Void, the same mannerisms of addressing / honourifics were still in place as before. The warframe being the center point of the story they are involved in without the mention or notions of the ones "postulated" in control, even in their sacrifice. - For some reason they all have that in common.
So... I really do think there's some latitude with those characters.... Mirage specifically, is mentioned as a weapon and is specifically said to have been in use by an operator, the last dialogue we receive, and I think it's supposed be made vague. In the end, I'm not sure we're ever going to be allowed to know 100% purposefully, but... it is fun to speculate one way or another and there's a ton of evidence for both.
What’s up buddy?! Love to see you’re still at it! I’m back in FL now, we should catch up!
Hey dude!!!! yes yes!
Amazing work, as always.
I really loved collecting Granum's Tenets from the Corpus ships. I'm extremely excited they connected those up to what we're dealing with the Indifference. And I'm bowled over at how impressive and creative the Dante Unbound update has been. On the surface, not terribly a lot of content per se, but the way they continue to interconnect more of the world together, and how horrifying it is that the Indifference has not only been influencing so many for so long, but has been a primary driving force in at least one of the main factions we fight on a regular basis.
I can barely articulate how amazing a job DE have done here, not only in their ability to continue to build characters and lore, but make them into gameplay, AND...this type of content, which surely would've been amazing as a cinematic quest...was still done really creatively as a smaller slice of content...while still being insanely impactful.
Literally no other game in this genre, and likely some other genres, do this.
I need more lore deep dives in my life I have a mean dante build and have several days in the sanctum and still have no idea wtf is happening cause everyone decides to talk while I'm airstriking murmurs with my grinoire and the amount of sounds happening at once is to much I can't pay attention to the story when it's presented like this 😢
I always had the thought that certain frames only existed as a singular example, because it's obvious that other frames were made on mass, such as Excalibur, Volt, Mag, Rhino and Loki. But then other frames like Gara, Protea, Lavos, Citrine and maybe even Dante were only made once, I have 2 possible explanations for this:
One reason could be that the people that these frames once were had special traits or abilities that interested the Orokin, and so just like other people, they were willingly or not turned into Warframes, but they became highly specialised frames that could never be realistically repeated.
Or it could be something similar to how Stalker became a Warframe, people who knew about the Warframe creation process and underwent it themselves, moulding themselves into these specific frames, making them unique, and in these examples possessed a similar sentience like Stalker's and Umbra's, but in the cases where we get to pilot them, they aren't the originals, so they lack their ability for sentience, I think Dante may have been one of these frames, given how he's spoken about as if the frame himself is a person, regardless on whether someone knows about the Operators or not, however I could be wrong on this and I might be reading too much into it.
I still believe that some frames were only made once, specifically those frames that have quests dedicated to them, such as Limbo, Mirage, Chroma and Revenant, although these frames most likely did have Operators unlike some of the others I mentioned, with exception to a few.
Left field idea: the Man-in-the-Wall is a metaphor for innocence lost. That, before being exposed to “our” world, “It” was truly a blank slate which Entrati mistook for indifference. He also failed to recognize a consciousness that was grappling with its own birth, having to assemble a framework of its own that could contend with its manifestation which was limited - or even crippled - by what was available. Namely Entrati’s incoherence.
I like the symbolism for certain!
Part of me suspects that Dante was a normal human when fighting with the void-touched book, and rather than let him die, turned him into a Warframe.
Annnnnnd then Loid goes and confirms Dante was a Warframe before the fight.
Imagine if DE releases a second grimoire which has a bonus when Dante uses it
"Virgil"
Fingers crossed!!!!
i like the style of this video, no obnoxious loud music, just pure content
The amount of foreshadowing that's been going on with Parvos coming home to roost is really impressive. It's easy to glance over his "whispers" as an aggrandizing, mystifying mythology to better draw in followers, his tale of an imaginary sister merely an eccentricity, the "devil in his eye" a poetic metaphor for acquisitive cunning or his personal Protea. But now we learn that he was witnessed uttering voidtongue in the distant past, and his severed-yet-grasping hand and quest to build "a new body" through the Corpus are clearly cast in a different light.
We don't know for sure Drusis committed a crime to become a cephalon. Suda, at least, was an aging archemedan who wished to preserve her slowly decayjng mind and became a cephalon by choice to preserve her knowledge.
Also, I felt Loid's comments on the warframes were clear. The warframes, prior to the Tenno's return from the void, acted as independent soldiers. We know this from the Umbra quest. They went mad, and the project was scrapped. What we have learned, however, is that some Frames did not go mad and were, in fact, loyal soldiers, but were marked as fugitives when the Warframe Initiative was deemed a failure. Ballas even alludes to the fact that some early frames were willing participants.
What is parvo's searching for?
An idea, I have.
He wanted a specter of sort, a sister. He had one at the beginning of the deadlock protocol Quest. Protea. Pat, she had sacrificed herself to help parvos escape his prison. What if he was looking through the archives of the entraini, for another Protea resurrecting his beautiful protea? a protea prime?
The Warframe to have two fathers? The Oregon manufacturer, and parvos himself.
I'm usually a silent watcher, dont like or comment mostly out of it not being habit, but every time i see one of your videos i always try to make a mental note of it (although sometimes unsuccessfully, adhd is a bitch). Your videos are just so well crafted and captivating and you bring up such good theories and points in all your videos it really makes you think about the nature of the Warframe universe and the possibilites it could entail. Love your work Siege
Thank you so much!!! I really appreciate that and yes... MUCH more on the way!
"There's a man on high,
_with the Devil in his eye,_
and a golden hand, I'm told..."
Absolutely! but who knew back then? Well... I know one person.
Don't mention that you also need to gather the Requiem Murmurs (aka whispers) to face the Sisters 👀
You dont learn voidtongue on your own accord.
Yeah, that's what I thought too...
Based Parvos CEO mindset
Agreed, but he might have had sky daddy help
Haha! My take too. Think Elon, Jeff, Bill, Edison, all of the robber barons of the 20th, and every Alexander, Khan, and Napoleon all rolled into one ginormous Pokémon collector into one. Then think of how incomprehensible your subscription bill would look.
Sigma Granum energy
So… could it be that parvos is dead? That all remains is a dream mimic?
@@Ydrakar Not likely. Parvos was able to escape the granum void via Protea scanning our warframes, and offering parvos time to escape conserving his youth and body from decay.
From what I understand, he is now chairman of his own branch of the corpus. And this whole levarian thing is a business deal
I don't know if I would say parvos is the indifference yet, since we see him express sentiment for the stuff we send him during the back and forth between Drusus and him something wally just don't do being the indifference and all. But I can see Parvos making his own deal with Wally, maybe when his ship went up and he got trapped in the void. Maybe it was how he survived all this time there, along with protea altering time, in turn being willing a conduit or extension for the void kind of like us.
I know of no creature in the warframe universe that both understands and can speak voidtongue that hasn't been visited by the man in the wall. Can you think of any?
Unrelated, but I love the track you use for the background of this.
Thank you it's one of the best of the update!!!
Dante Normally: Floating wizard man
Dante When key in Hand: I am SPEEEED
LOL, you ain't kidding!
Another banger from Sherlock Frame himself. 🔥
Thank you!!!
Kinda oftopic but Granum calling the Void Entity or the great indifference The Voice of Desire is very fitting considering the void is also embodying desire right now.
Also ontop of this, can it be possible that the Void always tried to enter our domain but only now has its chance since the void portal is open. it manipulated probably a bunch of people into such paths as Parvos.
After seeing a load of the Granum stuff you've brought up in recent videos, I have to say I am starting to think he is already part of the indifference. Also, I am starting to get the feeling that the lich content for the game is based on deals with the indifference, kuva liches through the blood of the indifference being shared, the sister liches being from a deal with the Granum indifference. The infested liches may even have something to do with him as well, but we will have to wait for Tennocon so see whether that is true or not.
I believe our deal with him also made us a lich, considered a demon to all. I think it may have to do with how he gains control, first has to turn someone into something tied to himself in order to change what they are. The Helminth has a few voice lines when your Operator/Drifter walks into his room that reinforce this kind of idea. First being "We fear nothing but the void demon" which hints that the void demon has done something to the infestation that can actually instill fear into it. Helminth also says "Shadows grow in this demon" which I believe hints at the indifference growing inside us, which is also reinforced by dialogue while fighting the book demon fought in the Entrati Labs missions, with the Cavia stating you can't kill a shadow, you have to get rid of what's casting it. I believe our "light" is what has allowed us to retain our own ego within our "demon" body, however with great light comes a great shadow. (Also think that the light may be something we learn more about in 1999, but that's just me being hopeful.)
Appreciate your videos as always TheDsIEGE! They always get me thinking about new things or about things I may have missed.
I agree with you and... Thank you so much! I'm really glad you enjoy the content!
Interesting take, but your choice of words leads to error. Sister of Parvos arent liches, Lich is a designation for Kuva Blood infused Grineer experiments while Sister of Parvos are infused with Granum Void Energy. The power of the void breaks their continuity, and thus allows us to take their lives.
Also the Helminth quotes depends on your Sun/Moon/Neutral alignment.
@loremasterdasmodeus8285 Still means the same thing in theory. I was talking about liches as in the mechanics, undying enemy you have to hunt down. Likely, that infested version won't be called lich either, but they will likely work the same, severing a tether to the void through mechanics so you can kill something that is undying. So I think I may be right. We will have to wait for Granum to appear again to find out. Also, Tennocon for Infested "liches" info. Also, term lich comes from fantastical term for undead made by fracturing the soul into a philactory, allowing rebirth from the item.
Edit: Also if your right about helminth dialogue then that is cool but everyone I've seen in videos has been same as mine, so have to research that myself sometime.
About the Leverian:
I dont have the absolute amount, but I can estimate.
In every first interaction with the new Leverians I've paid about 500000-1000000 to each and every one.
Everytime I am either streaming/explaining things to my friends and associates I've would donate 100000-300000 to any of the Leverians I would interact with. When I was searching for the Prex Cards I've donated another 1000000 for card found, and 200000 if no card was found at the time (I've failed to find some and then returned later).
I've might have donated over 50 million credits at this time, it sounds crazy but the donations end up adding up after some years.
I wonder how much does costs the Leverian to be kept running?
Drusus went broke after spending all his money on wolf mom
Can't say i blame him.
I knew there was some other reason!
Love this
@TheDsIEGE are you by any chance also Legacy of Kain Enthusiast like myself?
I couldn't help but notice that you sprinkle some references of said frenchise in your videos, which piqued my interest.🧐
It is such a delight to see other people still mentioning the series. 😊
Oh... one of the biggest enthusiasts, and it hurts my soul to this day that defiance was the last entry...
Still not sure about helping druSUS
Yeah... maybe it's not the best idea.
The simplest explanation: Drusus got scammed by Parvos so Loid and Tenno do something to clear the debt Drusus had after the scam.
I still believe that warframes had autonomy and that them going "feral" was an Orokin propoganda to hide their "uprising" so to speak. As evident with the Zeriman incident before the jump, there was already an uprising there, and the Orokin did all they can to force those people to commit the jump even down to sabotaging the food supply. And after all said and done, they just covered the whole thing up like it never happened. Whose to say they didn't exaggerate the Warframes' "feral behavior"?
I think the reason Parvos' payment is basically whatever Drusus can supply from the labs, is because Parvos has made a deal. Like in his youth, he has taken out a loan. Parvos simply hasn't found what counts as payment to the Man In The Wall. This deal could have been made long ago. Perhaps before the Zariman. And only now that the Kalymos Sequence has begun and the labs are revealed can Parvos fulfill it. And the Indifference's habit of making deals and a sense that they should be honored may simply be a belief that was instilled BY Granum. The Indifference seeing someone taking what they wish and getting what they want, and choosing to emulate it.
This quest made me feel guilty whenever I've only donated 1 credit for the nighwave tasks.
My average donation to the levarian was 10,000 credits. Not much in warframe itself,but makes me feel good.
Don't worry, with everyone else's donations as well as your own Drusus should be doing just fine, lol
Parvos looking Dante after the nerf hmm maybe protea prime is goona be my main again
Dante definitely lost a good bit...
While I’m a bit late to the party something I thought of when it came to the idea of Dante was the frame or the Tenno, I think that it was a hybrid, like Rell and Horrow as it seemed like the frame and the Tenno merged to some extent, also something to keep in mind is that some frames seem to also have had this be the case
I took a nap after work and missed the live stream 😢
As long as you enjoyed the video, that's all that matters!
I gave him 1mil Credits for every existing Leverian exhibit as well as for every "Donate to Leverian" Nightwave challenge. Over the years, it has to be a *very* generous sum.
I'm sure it is!!!
Yeah, considering just how wealthy and powerful individual Tenno are, its very surprising to me that Drussus managed to go bankrupt; you'd think having millions of exceptionally wealthy patrons willing to casually throw out absurd lumps of money would be enough, but evidently Drussus is dogspit and math.
I would never have linked parvos to wally without this video as I likely wouldn't have found Dante's card on my own.
I found it by accident when recording stuff for the video, lol
I wish I could see a history of donations I’ve made to Drusus. I think I gave a bunch of different amounts to see how he would respond lmao
A blood omen quote ❤
Woe to the conquered!!!!
Awesome video as always. and as always, made me think... hard....
When I played the quest with Parvos Granum, and follow up on the story of his origin... I didn't connect the voice he ehars with the void... I was litterally thinking the guy was mad and was hearing voices... But that IS the point of the man in tha wall... It makes perfect sence that Granum heard it... But that would mean he heard it much before he was exposed to the void... Or anywhere near it... So... It means the indifferance can rach out, even if harrow and Rell were still guarding this world...
It really makes me wonder more and more about rell....
The more I see it, the more I think that the void is like warp(Warhammer) and void-born entities like the indifference (and probably others like desire, hatred, sorrow, etc) are trying to reach to the other side and expand their influence on the material realm (the materium) similar to to what chaos gods are doing.
My theory is that Ballas, Hunhow, Parvos, Albrech and ourself (the Tenno) have all been approach by one of those entities at some point (oh and apparently Baro too XD but ofc he would, dude is consistently traveling in the void).
Vae Victus!
Love the Legacy of Kain bit there!
I think it's possible that the intelligence of warframe varies. Perhaps prior to the tenno coming into the picture they allowed a higher degree of 'self'
38:18 the wiki says kullvero committed his crimes before And after the tenno piloted warframes
Yeah, Kullervo is a weird one... and his story is incredibly vague, but... you're point stands.
After hearing pre-cephalon Ordis again it made me think, Is Kullervo what happened to Ordis' original body?
Actually, we do have confirmation of at least one Warframe that functioned and operated without the Tenno. Something I didn't know when you made that video on the matter, which is why I argued against the idea then.
The game actually spells it out for you: Kullervo operated independently from the Tenno.
We know this because in Kullervo's hold, where his crimes are listed, we get a timeline, as told by the Warden.
His second crime confirms that he is a Proto-Frame, one who was built before the arrival of the Zariman and before the discovery of transference and that he had the freedom to act. It also confirms however that the vast majority of Proto-Warframes were not sapient.
"You witnessed the slaughter as the Orokin eradicated your defective, demented brothers and sisters... and did nothing to aid them, choosing to tremble in your cowardly seclusion. A traitor twice over. Kullervo, bloody-handed, I charge you with Cowardice."
His fourth and fith crimes confirm that this happened before the arrival of the Tenno and that, once they arrived, he still acted independently of them.
"Upon the arrival of the wretched Tenno, you struck. Out of, what, a desire for redemption? You thought to strike the Orokin where it hurt: their laboratories, their edifices of government, their homes. To distract. To buy time. Idiot. You are charged with Treason."
"You saw the new generation of your kind and the Tenno whose deviltry blent with theirs; and you began to whisper corruption into their ears, weave dark thoughts through the coils of their minds. Incepting, as is your wont, chaos and disaster. You are charged with Espionage."
From this and Dante, I would dare say: There were *some* Warframes who did not go insane or degenerate into monsters, and they were either spared or managed to avoid extermination at the hands of the Orokin.
However, I would also say: They were likely among the exceptions. We shouldn't assume that every lore entry that uses a Warframe as a character without mentioning the Tenno implies that this Warframe was sapient. Most people likely did not know the secret of transference or know what the Tenno were, so they would have only observed the Warframes and maybe assume that Ballas simply managed to eliminate whatever had been the fault with the first generation of frames.
As for the "Madness", I think the explanation is much easier. It's not about the feral state of the original frames, it's about their betrayal at the hands of the Lotus (and indirectly, possibly Ballas) which led to the death of all but one Executioners and the collapse of the Orokin Empire. The Nights of the Naga Drums, as it's referred to.
If Dante was a sapient Proto-frame without an Operator, he wouldn't have been under the influence of the Lotus and therefore he would not have participated in the slaughter.
I gave 1 credit. Total.
Your welcome.
Keeping the lights on big time, this one, lol
I'm seriously wondering more and more what exactly the deal between the tenno and the indifference really entailed, did we really give it something to save everyone or did it force us to take something in exchange?
That's a really good question... Maybe one day we'll find out for sure.
have you done one on the sentient beasts before they became archons yet? or waiting till they get proper ingame material to go off of?
Not yet, but... it's on my whiteboard, lol
I emptied my bank account into those donation boxes expecting it would cause something special to happen.
First thing i thought when i heard his voice was " is that thursby?"
LOLOL
There was 1 piece of doalog hinting that Parvos is looking for the book and wants to open it so he can speak with wally. I saw it floating around in a screenshot.
And I have giving the Leverian several million credits, I don't actually remember how much. I have giving him 1mil each time I visit, but I have also given 2mil and 5mil a couple of times.
If there's a GRAIN of truth to Parvos' stories, I think that if anyone could come out on top in a deal with the Indifference, it'd be him.
I always donate, I love that they are adding lore for the tip box (i usually donate around 10000 credits)
I've been going at 100k to 1mil each time, he needs to learn how to budget...
After giving him over 50 000 000 credits this hits different
ive donated somewhere along 3 mil credits while visiting in the past. hope this helps with the budget
39:12 this line specifically kinda annoys me because a question I've had for ages is "do warframes have their own voice?" because i find it hard to believe that anyone in the warframe universe is surprised that the frames are controlled by children if they all sound like children when they talk. And i came to the conclusion that obviously they have their own voice as frames like valkyr and dagath scream with a unique voice but this line says no they can't talk, so apparently everyone in the warframe universe was surprised that the child sounding frames are controlled by children.
I wouldn't say that's necessarily a contradiction. I mean, Valkyr still screams in a female voice when you play a male Operator.
Not being able to speak is different from not having a voice.
My assumption would be that at least some Warframes do have a voice that lets them roar or scream, but lack the lips and tongue needed to actually form words. Loid literally says that the creators of the Warframes intended for them to only be able to scream, roar or howl.
With Warframes being unable to speak, I doubt that the Operators would have picked up the slack. They were in the Second Dream, they weren't even quite aware of themselves. Our Operator never says a word until the end of the Second Dream. I think everyone assumed the Warframes to be mute, communicating only through gestures.
The more I learn about the warframe lore the more yhe man in the wall sounds like Ko the face stealer
Since you talked about shaking hands making deals 🤝 also at the end of the new war when de man in the wall appears and the lotus try to close the void portal and he vanished you can clearly see that the hands of the lotus is smoking almost if they made a deal and shook her hands with it because why was her hands smoking after he vanished and not at the start of closing the void portal idk what do you guys think?
Where did that ordis lore come from? Was it an old event?
If you find all the cephalon fragments and move the cursor around within the images each one shows, you'll reveal Ordis' hidden backstory.
7:40 I play warframe for 1 year now... Done all the quest and stuff and i don't remember that part at all. Someone can tell me where this is from?
Ok, so here's how you have to get that dialogue. Find all the cephalon fragments from each planet and then go into the codex under fragments, and move your cursor around the picture until you find the spot that reveals the dialogue. There's a piece of the story in every fragment
@@TheDsIEGE Thank you
Correct me if i'm wrong but I thought the original warframes were helminith mutated dax with autonomy, and it was after this 'madness event' they needed tenno to 'soothe' and control them. Hence Umbra being his own bloke.
Tough to say, this "event" just kind of popped up in this update and there's very little definitive context around it...
I think one thing to keep in mind is that you can become a cephalon on your own accord, Cephalon Suda did in her own comic
True, but it's typically a punishment and was developed as such by nihil
So if Parvos and the corpus are an allegory for desire, and the infested are Hunger/adaptation, what sort of primal urge do the grineer represent?
Domination and tyranny.
when will all cephalons get body back i want them as friends as a family
I'll be honest, my first reaction to Drusus being in debt was "I'm sorry, I was too broke to give much."
I've given out at least 7 million credits to that place and I wanna know where my investments went -_-. Also I personally stand with the theory that the warframes were made, used as powerful soldiers across the system, then something broke in them. When the Tenno were found, the experiments showed that these children could not only control 1 powerful frame but be able to control multiple individual ones at separate times. If one warframe was enough to be a body guard of an Orokin then these children controlling varieties of super soldiers would certainly be demonic.
He possibly could have volunteered to be a cephalon. Not all cephalons were considered convicts. Cephalon suda is actually one example
True but they kind of hint at what he did during loid's idle dialogue
If you were given the opportunity to give The Collector of Knowledge a name...
What would it be?
Amazing work as always...
Swazdo-lah surah...
Stay strong guardian...
Be safe...
That's a good question... One I might have to incorporate into a future vid... Thank you as always!!!
Pretty sure according to lore and our own characters literally, my take is that Parvos DIED on his assassination attempt and in that instant, two realities were created. Parvos being dead in our original universe, one that lived the moment his tomb was opened. As why would Parvos remain stuck there for all this time without coming up with a plan for escape? Would explain why he is fluent in voidtongue especially given the fact that if he was in stasis all this time which would not make sense the more I read WHY he was locked in stasis only to break free the MOMENT his tomb is opened....I just think he's another product of the void like the Tenno are. Parvos is very dead.
When I heard Vae Victus I did a double take. Is this a warframe video? or is LoK coming back?
YES!!!! I was hoping someone would call this out!!!! NICE JOB!
Not sure why, but when I clicked into this video it said i wasnt subscribed. Even tho I know I am lol. Everyone make sure to double check that bell 💜
Thank you for this, and yes check to make sure!!!
To me, it seems like the Voidtongue Parvos speaks is or at least has to do with his Tenets.
They're obviously important fir the Sisters, their weapons and maybe even their immortality. We know why Kuva Liches don't die, it's in their name, so why not the same with the sisters?
What if the Tenets are Voidtongue words given to Parvos that hold the same command over members of his corpus (or at least those who follow all the Tenets) that Kuva does over Dax?
40:00 I actually think you're on the wrong track here. Especially when you look at the last events or the way characters talk to us, you realise that they are aware that there are several Tenno travelling through the solar system. The amount of Tenno you see in the story sequences are simply us - the players. Each player can have several warframes. There are also Tenno, like Limbo or Mirage, which transform into Warframes and Warframes like the Stalker or Excalibur Umbral, which retain their consciousness and travel around independently. Umbral is even so wilful that he has retained his consciousness even since he has been living with us. It is quite conceivable that Dante himself wrote his own writings in the form of a Warframe. The Dante we play is of course not this Dante. We will never meet this Dante in the game.
At any point... except that it doesn't seem that we can be killed, at least by any means he currently possesses...
I’ve given the leverian about 30m I capped the credit amount and I felt bad then donated a lot. I actually like the guy, really good video btw I enjoy watching and listening to you while I work
WOW! DRUSUS, what are you doing with all this change? I could feed the origin system 10 times over with the amount of money people have donated!
Idk about you, but I assumed it was Wally since the Deadlock Protocol.. 😅
Me too.
@@TheDsIEGE yeah, I bet the deal he made was something like, "you'll do something ambiguous that we don't know anything about in the future for me, and I'll make sure you'll get rich and powerful af"
But the question then becomes, how did Wally even manage to be able to interact with him in the first place? Cause based on what we know so far, Wally only gets in contact with people once they've come in contact with The Void itself, or a Void key I suppose in Vor's case..
@@Alexus00712 There is something else we are missing with Wally and the Indifference.
To me, he seems to be operating similar to like what Doctor Manhattan did in the New 52 comics and Doomsday Clock, where destiny and fate tell him to act.
With Paavos, it is looking to me like there are times where the Indifference is setting things in motion for the future in the form of deals, then Wally is coming in to call in that deal, but does not seem to be the same being in each instance, apart from the Tenno's interactions.
It is almost like the Tenno are acting like a focal point for all of the Indifference's behaviours both in the past and the future. It would not surprise me in the slightest to learn that Albrecht met the Man in the Wall during his Void travel experiment in direct response to the Tenno not handing over the page as Wally wanted.
Hi i just wanted inform you that you probably missed the reason why drusius got glass
Loid talking about how protecting these rogue frames would result in punishment and drusius being friends with dante sorta hinting to this.
I did see that and hinted at it in the video. That being said, we're kind of insinuating that based on a hint so... i didn't add it because of that.
@@TheDsIEGE btw do you think some of our old sources of information on what Warframes are is being currently retcon as we move into 1999
@@azzubairfaruq3124No, it seems Albrecht brought the Helminth strain back with him and created his partial warframes in the past to combat whatever's going on back then. Them still having their conciousness and faces is explicitly because Albrecht is less of a total dickbag than Ballas, who purposefully and deliberately chose to rob the frames of the ability to speak for the evulz.
Unbra excaliber is dax captain and in year 1999 version high rank soldger ?.
after you hear what happened, dantes book, noctua appears briefly until looked away from. you skipped that.
granum wants noctua.
I remember dropping a million credits a while ago, and one i heard they went bankrupt, i lost it😂
One thing I realized... Drusus says "until the sun goes dark". Albrecht says "we die with the sun". The Man in the wall appears at the end of the New war when the Sun is being sucked away. The Man in the wall did not want us to leave the Origin system with the Sun in the center. What if... The Man in the wall is afraid of losing the Sun? The light.
If he is only a shadow that needs light to cast it that would make a lot of sense
@@Nebulanoctis This sounds so wise, holy hell
@@Nebulanoctis This sounds so wise, holy hell
There was an another warframe that didn't need a tenno to pilot him. Harrow from Rel himslef (if i am not mistaken).
Harrow wasn't independent, if what Palladino says is to be believed. Rell fully merged with his Harrow frame, abandoning his old body to permanently lock himself in Harrow, which itself brings up an interesting point. The Lotus didn't originally know of Rell, because he was rejected before she took the role of guardian to the Tenno. What if there are others? Could there be "Tenno-less" frames that simply merged with their operators like Rell did?
Oh so now you ask why there havnt been any other Tenno characters in the field besides us. (Especially in the new war: were they too stabbed by Ballas?!)
Correct me if im wrong, but doesn't the void react to strong thoughts, emotions and dare i say it desire. If yes the could it be a connection between parvos and the void.
I've given him upwards to 90 million as of the release of Dante Unbound. How much did parvos put him in debt!?!?!?
I actually donated a couple million credits to the Leverian, i wonder if every single Tenno donated to the Leverian that this might've not happened at all