Modern Beer Brewing Boil Times Explained & How To Convert Older 90/60 Minute Recipes
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- čas přidán 20. 08. 2024
- Modern Beer Brewing Boil Times Explained & How To Convert Older 90/60 Minute Recipes
This video explains why traditional beer brewing times were as long as 60 or 90 minutes and why the modern 30 minute boil time is all you need these days. There is also a section showing how to covert older recipes to the modern boil time.
Channel links:-
groups/Brewbeer
www.teespring....
Introduction music:- Drink Beer (Till The Day That I Die) by Dazie Mae
Channel links:-
groups/Brewbeer
www.teespring....
Introduction music:- Drink Beer (Till The Day That I Die) by Dazie Mae
Channel links:-
groups/Brewbeer
www.teespring....
Introduction music:- Drink Beer (Till The Day That I Die) by Dazie Mae
David is the Gold Standard for home brewing videos! I'm brewing a Czech style pilsener tomorrow...my first 30 minute boil. Thanks David.
Thank you so much, awesome to hear 🍻🍻🍻
I changed to 30min boil for all styles and have never noticed any difference, just lower electricity usage ;-) Go for 30 min guys!
No change to flavour? My testing showed good improvements personally.
3:45 Yakima Valley Hops was at the Maine Brewers Guild meet a few weeks ago. They were testing a variety of hops from different boiling times to whirlpool to dry hop. And they tested for hop compounds and found which ones are present for different boiling times to dry hopping. They found some hops shouldn't even be used during the boil and should only be used for whirlpool or dry hopping. With any luck they should be releasing their results in the next few months.
Yes, not all hops are suitable for all parts of the boil. This is well known. Some are just for bittering and some for just flavour and aroma. There are plenty of dual purpose hops available though. Hops have been categorised for many years in fact.
Look for the Yakima Chief/Scott Janish survivables chart.
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No more 60 minute boils for me! That’s half an hour saved. Thanks David.
Nor me but for me its based on flavour mostly 🍻🍻🍻
I started brewing 6 years ago, and discovered this " old habits die hard" boiling time... 5.9 years ago. I use hops at the end, below 80 °C. Boil 1 minute to 30. Great beers. And spend hours trying to convince people that boiling 90 is only useless. Thanx for your vidéo.
Cheers, you were fast to get on track! Very nice 🍻
Useful; check. Informative; check. Interesting; check. Thanks for another great video David
Cheers Joseph 🍻🍻🍻
Brewing a German Pilsner tomorrow, and I'll be boiling for 30mins. I've got me a big ol' bag of Hallertauer Mittelfrüh so the slight increase in hop usage ain't no thang! The days of 90min pils malt boils are long gone. 👍
Yes for sure 🍻🍻🍻Enjoy 🍻🍻🍻
Thanks for another informative video David. Shorter boiling time? Shorter brew day?
You had me at "Hello".
Cheers Sean 🍻🍻🍻
The most informative and best presented brewing channel on CZcams. I was going to try the 30 minute mash on my last brew but using the iodine test for some reason conversion wasn't complete until 90 minutes. I haven't given up on the 30 minute mash ! Thanks David !
Many thanks, much appreciated. A 30 minute mash is possible but you will need to add in some extra stirring 🍻🍻🍻
Totally agree, 30 minutes is all you need. Been doing 30 min boils for a while now and beers all turn out great.
so I can do a 30min boil lager? it just feels wrong. but I will give it a go.
Great to hear Gareth
Sure you can. I have recipes on my channel for 30 min boil lagers already 🍻🍻🍻
My go to channel for real information and this video was a total slamdunk. Since you started brewing with 30 mins boil I have followed and like you I much prefer the end results and love the savings to electricity and water too. Excellant video as always!
Cheers Alan, great to hear 🍻🍻🍻
Thanks to you I converted my recipies from 90 to 60 minutes a while ago and fidnt notice any difference. Now Ill reduce it further down to 30 min. Saves time and energy! Thank you for the greate videos! :)
Great to hear Marco 🍻🍻🍻
Hi David. Great info here.
I’m all in when it comes to new methods and have changed my processes many times over the years.
Been doing a 30 minute boil for a few years but from an efficiency point of view, reducing brew day time and keeping ingredients costs as low as possible.
I was too cheap to convert my recipes by adding more hops so keeping my recipes the same I just mash with less strike water so I have the same volume going into fermenter. Due to less bool off. Once I’ve sparged I draw off 2 litres of wort and bring that into the kitchen and boil on the stove top with my normal 60 min addition. Once my kettle has come to the boil I find that my hops/wort on the stove has had the best part of a 30 min boil while waiting for my kettle to come to the boil. I then do my 30 min boil all together which saves time. Most brew days are under 2.5 hours.
I will give your technique a go and see how I get on. Maybe I’ll get better aroma.
Cheers
Great, cheers David 🍻🍻🍻
These videos are gold. Thank you.
Cheers Maurey 🍻🍻🍻
Short boil and mash is definitely the go-to technique for everyday beers, but there are certain beers that I will always boil long. I think a 2+ hour boil can definitely contribute additional complexity to a barleywine, quad, Russian imperial, or doppelbock, plus you can only fit so much grain in any mash tun.
Yes, you have to let your own taste buds decide per brew.
Hi David, Since you first brought this up, maybe a year ago, I have been using 30 minute boils. I make quite a few lagers and have suffered zero ill effects from this change and in fact as you have said you get more malt flavour which I also prefer. Plus if we all did this we would use less energy which can only be good for the climate and at current energy prices our pocket. Cheers 🍻
Great to hear Mark. Yes I believe this is the normal findings of not just homebrewers but commercial brewers too. You use a little more hops in most brews but even in extreme recipes, like the one I showed, the difference is not much. There is also the lower amounts of power needed plus the saving to water but the main reason I changed was for better flavour.
And saves you time
Would it be possible to cut to 20 minutes do you think?
Try it and see what you think. I prefer 30 minutes personally taste wise and it keeps bittering hop additions more reasonable.
Thank you,@@DavidHeathHomebrew So what impact does it have taste wise if you were to shorten it (ignoring the hop side of things)
Thank you David. Since watching your RAW video a couple of years ago . . . I have not boiled. I HAVE instead, boiled my initial bittering hops for an hour in water, then used that hopped water for my mash. Now, watching THIS video, I will adjust my bittering hop to get the same required IBU, but from only 30 minutes (boiling in plain water) . . . as well as adjust to check that I am getting the planned for BU / GU for whatever the beer is.
Hey Russel great to hear. Plenty of options for your taste buds to decide on 🍻🍻🍻
Ok, I've been on a brewing hiatus for a few years (actually my last brew was in 2016, so more than a few years). This hurts my head, lol! I'm going to have to rewatch this a couple of times, but I love the idea of a shorter boil...anything to cut down the time of a brew day, especially now that I have kids
The short boil is used by many breweries and it is gradually catching on with homebrewers. I do it for the extra flavour above all.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew i will need to give it a try when i get back into it
Enjoy 🍻🍻🍻
Hi David, there is one important argument in favor of longer boil times and that is mash and sparge water quantities. Especially with larger grain bills there is little space for sparge water in the equation while it needs the most. Starting with more water, boiling that off later to reach the desired gravity.
All any of us can do is experiment and see what works best for our own taste buds.
Wonderful video. I use to stop boiling at all a few years ago and learned boiling was needed for the Hops. You helped me with this idea. I have reduced my Hops to only one ounce on my builds.
Great to hear Linda. Lots of options for sure 🍻🍻🍻
One observation I've noticed since changing from 60min to 30min boils is I don't tend to use the clean bittering hops so much anymore. eg: Magnum, Warrior. I find I'm using the high alpha Dual purpose hops for the 30min addition with hoppy styles to achieve the flavour / bitterness without the worry that I'm 'wasting' them as a 60min addition.
Interesting. Personally I still use them without any ill effects but it is a question of personal taste.
Thanks David, yet another useful informative vid. I converted most of my recipes some time ago and am still enjoying the same beer results as with the longer brew times.
Great to hear Dan 🍻🍻🍻
Great video David! I will try 30 mins boil on my next brew day.
Many thanks. I am sure you will enjoy the results.
I brew your mango recipe with 30 minute boil last weekend and can do two brew in a day easily. This video will change some of the older recipes I have for 90 minutes which is like watching grass grow but being a newbie I didn’t question it. I will try the shortening when I do my Guinness clone again.
Cheers Stephen. Yes the time saved is a nice bonus but mostly I switched for the improvements to flavour.
Love your videos, as always. I’m a few months from jumping in to all grain brewing after years of doing FWKs. Time is critical to me, as it is for many others, so shaving 30 mins off the boil time and [hopefully] getting more flavour extraction is a no brainer. Really enjoy that you provide the history and compare to modern brewing techniques. Cheers
Great to hear 🍻🍻🍻. Yes, it was a no brainer for me too 🍻🍻🍻
Love the video. I did a search for Homebrew boil times because I was thinking, do I really need to do an hour? It's too much of a round number. I was drinking Dogfish head 90 min and was thinking this is BS. I like the concept of adding finishing hops after the wort has cooled down a bit, post boil. Almost like a semi dry hop. I think I will try that next time. Cheers!
Great to hear Jody. You wont go back, thats for sure.
Again another good video. Also nice to see what it does with your recipe values and how to fix this. Wow, I like this type of tips. Cheers mate!
Cheers Chris 🍻🍻🍻
Great video David. This clarified so many questions I’ve had about 60 min vs 30 min boil times. Thanks for all the great info !
Great to hear Garrie 🍻🍻🍻
Thank you so much for such an important video! Cheers from Mother Nature and Electricity bill!!!
Two questions: 1. For High IBU beers, is it cost effective? 2. How do you handle older recipes and boiling evaporation to achieve the correct final volume?
Cheers.
1) I showed the end example with an Imperial beer which is an extreme example. Most normal beers will involve less hops than this.
For me it is not about cost or time though, it is about the best flavour. You will however use less water and electricity.
2) If you follow the directions of conversion shared in the video then the brewing software will automatically adjust the water volumes correctly.Cheers.
1) I showed the end example with an Imperial beer which is an extreme example. Most normal beers will involve less hops than this.
For me it is not about cost or time though, it is about the best flavour. You will however use less water and electricity.
2) If you follow the directions of conversion shared in the video then the brewing software will automatically adjust the water volumes correctly.
Interesting, might have to experiment on this for taste, however, if brewing w a large hop charge prior to 30 min I'd argue the increased cost of hops will be greater than a small reduction in electricity costs...
In all honesty Ken this is not about cost or time for me, its about flavour. However everyone will have their own take on it.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew I'm really interested in trying this out w/your mention of flavor, I mean that's why we are home brewers right?! So, I'm going to give this a try, do you have any suggestions on what style you find this most promising? Thanks, and keep up the good work!
Flavour is king for sure. I apply this to all styles personally.
I started to use a 45 min boil regularly. 15 min without hops to ensure the best protein denaturation and 30min for the isomerization
Have you tried 30 mins? I think in general you will not notice a difference to the end beer.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew yeah. I think I get a slight better hot Break. But it could be just confirmation bias
Clarity can be handled in various ways. Its all really about finding the path that you personally prefer, along with your taste buds.
Had already switched over to 30min boils, you made excellent points over the years and the study that Brulosophy did as well on Pilsner & non-pilsner malt.
All my recipes are 30m boils. The only reason I'd go 60 is for more bitterness, but I can easily achieve the same result by using more hops. Even flameout can impart a significant amount of bitterness and flavour.
Great to hear Justin. You can always boil hops in just on your stove while mashing too.
Adding these will increase IBU nicely and the water needed is small.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew from your experience, do you use other hop measurements to estimate flavours and aroma in a quantifiable way, or do you just lean on knowledge and experience?
@@justinmitchell5660 When I first start writing a recipe I tend to have a feel already as to what will work in general with all aspects but after the first test batch my taste buds and the taste buds of others are how I measure where the beer is going to go for enhancements.
I.m convinced. Once have passed the hot break and the wort is clear on top,seems little point in taking it further. Unless you are trying to remove more of the water.I have not made a bad beer yet. Saves a bit of gas although does make the house all toasty and with malty aromas. : }
Yes, this is not the first time Ive heard this. Have you tried raw brewing? I love the end taste.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew I have not,will look into it. : }
Ive made quite a few videos about raw brewing. This one is a great starting place:- czcams.com/video/jKihXgIluwY/video.html
@@DavidHeathHomebrew I'm on to it already.
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Hello David, since your earlier video I boil all my beers for 45 minutes, not to find any mayor changes.
It saves time and money at the same time.
In some cases I adjusted the hops a bit to meet the recipe (using grainfather) but not much.
Still it resulted in very good beers !
Thanks for the video and the information !!
Increasing the hops used ends up in saved money? Are you using propane or electric?
Great to hear Ted.
The hop difference will not be much Mike and there is power and water savings. Not that I switched for money, I switched for better flavour.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew David, enjoy your videos. I learn a lot.
I was trying to wrap my head around the pro's and con's. Your example showed an adjustment from 50 grams of hops to 68, or 36% increase. That could be significant, depending on the beer style - say an IPA., and type of hops. I tend to use a lot of Citra, which are a bit pricey.
I'd guesstimate my propane savings going from 60 to 30 minutes would be around $2. There's also the savings in terms of time.
The water savings would only be due to boil off, correct? In my case, about 1 gallon/hour, so about a half gallon.
All in all, I think I'll give it a go.
Hi Mike, great to hear. My perspective is as simple as “does it benefit flavour?” If so then I jump on it. I would boil for 5 hours if it did.
In terms of the financial I showed an extreme example, an Imperial IPA. This was on purpose. I do not wish to hide anything, with a bitter beer this will cost more. Though that amount of hops, even in this extreme example is not really much of a cost. Also many IPA beers these days do not even have a bittering hop they just use late additions.
The savings are via water (less boil off) power and of course time which has a different value for us all.
Nice video David, I've been cutting down a lot of my boils to 30mins as I have been brewing a lot of very pale and/or hoppy beers. If I were brewing a hazy ipa for instance in theory you could just bring it up to 80c as you mentioned and load in the whirlpool hops - what I don't understand is if there is anything to be gained from boiling in terms of proteins, hot break etc. Cheers!
Cheers Fergal. All any of can do is trial this with a range of styles and see what pleases our taste buds.
Hi David,
I've had a good look at your video and, while I'm not fully swayed, I'll give it a try since I'm very conscious that brewing is very wasteful of energy. On the other had, I use a lot of heritage malts like Crisp's Chevallier and Plumage Archer. Haná, too from time to time. Do you think the same presuppositions about modification etc would apply to these malts. I also use some floor malted grains, too, now and again.
I suggest you try it and after some brews see what you think. That was exactly my my method after hearing that some breweries and homebrewers were favouring this boil time. Modern malt should all be suited from malsters that produce on mass. “Farm malted” is where you need to ask questions to the malster.
great information mate
Cheers Ken 🍻🍻🍻
@@DavidHeathHomebrew already converted a recipe using this methodology
Great, enjoy 🍻🍻🍻
I love your videos. This was a great one. :)
Thanks Pierre, great to hear 🍻🍻🍻
@@DavidHeathHomebrew you should create a course. I go to norway for that :) Or you can come to Sweden and have a course i will set you up with a hotell room :)
That is really what the new “How to HomeBrew Beer” series is set to offer. A course of various videos going from a-z of brewing.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew Great. Now you have done a video about speeding up boil time. Will you create a video about speeding up the fermentation time to ?
Already done :) czcams.com/video/W7WSFn6bNoA/video.html
Another informative video David. I may have to try this to shorten my brew day. I assume with less boil time a little more malt will be needed to reach the same gravity as my previous recipes with an hour boil. Not a big deal on the homebrew level. Thanks David! Cheers!!
Thank you. No, the malt remains the same, it is just the hops that increase a little but the water needed will also decrease.
Long boil times change the taste and color of the beer. The same is true for decoction mashing. It's out of date but not pointless.
There are some older styles where you may choose to keep with traditional methods. Having said this there are malts these days that will build in those flavours and effects. I personally prefer this route because it is more controllable and predictable. As I said in the video though, it is all about knowing the options and choosing based on what your taste buds think.
Another great upload David,
Would I have to add extra grain to achieve the same OG as obviously I'll be boiling less of the wort off?
Cheers 👍🍺
Thanks. No need to change your grain, just water and hops 🍻🍻
@@DavidHeathHomebrew Many thanks David 👍🍺
Cheers 🍻🍻🍻
Love the video, David! It has been great to see recipes evolve as our understanding of brewing improves. I was curious what your thoughts are on the merit of longer boil times to impart caramelized flavors to the wort, such as for the wee heavy style for instance? I have seen people tout this approach online from a malt flavor perspective but have never tried for myself.
Cheers Colin. I would rather bring those flavours over via malt and a shorter boil that holds the flavour in. This way it is predictable and thus controllable. Important stuff for recipe writing.
I have brewed a ‘Guinness knock-off’ quite a number of times. It calls for 90 minute mash and boil. It is so good, I’ve been afraid to change anything. Ha! But maybe I’ll give it a go and see. You didn’t mention mash times in this video, but from what I’ve heard you say before- I believe you said not really much reason to have that long a mash anyway?
Hi Mark, my decision to move over was purely made based on taste. You should try this with all recipes and see what your taste buds tell you. You might find that 90 min stout is better as is or via a 30 min boil.
In relation to the time of a mash I talk about this in detail in my next video (next Wednesday) which compares commercial brewers and home brewers. In short I recommend a 60 min mash for homebrew, unless you want to start doing starch tests.
david , as usual a very informative video. A question -what about mash times , can we cut these to 30 or 40 mins ? ---this would really shorten the process
Cheers Tim. You can get away with 40 minutes if your grain crush is good but for the sake of 20 minutes and the need for testing I go the full 60 mins.
The 30 min boil for me isnt about saving time, more a way to keep flavour.
I'm not an expert, only about 50 brews so far. But when I'm going for bittering without flavour or aroma, 60 mins does the trick. The closer you get to zero, the more flavour and later aroma. I only do 90 min boils when I want to increase the gravity. Some people say that you also get more mylard reactions with longer boils, which would enhance "melanoiden" wich is wanted in many beers. For a NEIPA a 30 min is the way to go, but for a double stout...naah.
All we can really do is make our own decisions based on our own taste buds. However when I am developing recipes for the average taste I find myself drawn to the 30 minute boil. This is not to say that this covers every single style though. However there are various ways to achieve flavour, boiling is just one and frankly it is less predictable than malt. I merely look to provide options rather than a one track way to go. The individuals taste is the most important factor.
Since in a home system a high percentage boil off is normally seen, surely you need also to reduce your volume of sparge water too?
Yes, though brewing software like Brewfather will calculate this as soon as you use a 30 minute boil time.
I always thought longer boil times and the fabled hot side aeration are to enhance beer stability, for longer storage.
No, its actually the hop content that preserves beer. Thats where dry hopping comes from. These were shipped from England to India, hence India Pale Ale - IPA.
Adding extra hops to IPA so that it would make it to India in better condition has been proven to be a marketing myth?
It has? I do not think so. It is part of British beer history.
Sorry,
You are absolutely right. I just double checked my copy of “IPA” by Mitch Steele. What he says is that all beers historically shipped in casks were brewed stronger and with more hops. Even the original domestic versions of IPA were produced with 3.5 pounds per barrel and export versions were produced with 6 pounds per barrel. Also over time there was a drop in gravity and hops due to taxes, the temperance movement, and war rationing.
I guess I should have been more clear in my original post and stated something like “extra hops were added to all beers exported so IPA was just a pale ale made for export”.
No problem 🍻🍻🍻
Will definitely try 30 min boil time on my next light beers! But will the reduced boil time affect caramelization of darker beers like porter, imperial stout etc?
Ive been using it on all recipes for quite some time, many breweries went this route long ago and homebrewers are gradually catching up.
Another great video David! What do you do when you have multiple additions of the same hop e.g. in my Czech Pilsner I have 60g of Saaz at 60 min then 30g at 45, 10g at 22 and 30g at 15 minutes? Cheers.
I would bring the 60 min to 30 mins then the 45 to 25 mins. Or combine to create the same end IBU. I hope this helps 🍻
Thanks for the fantastic info David as always. Your argument is that you don't need long boil times due to advancements in malt. I recently saw a "heritage malt" pop up in my local brew store (in this case Plumage Archer) which got me thinking. Do heritage malts require these longer boil times or are they simply modern malts made to emulate some older malt styles?
Hi Dagur, I would suggest contacting the malster to be sure, though as much as the malt is “heritage” it is likely that it still undergoes a modern malting process. “Farm malt however is one to watch out for.
Perfect, thanks for a quick and informative response.
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Thank you David for another great guide. I will be trying a 30 min boil with one of my recipes. Now it’s a 60min boil, hop addition at 45 and 30 min. How do I adjust my hop additions for a 30 min boil. Thanks
Cheers David.
The 60 becomes 30 but what are your intentions with the 45 and 30 min additions?
@@DavidHeathHomebrew I’m sorry David I wasn’t very clear. No 60 minute addition that was the total boil time. First hop addition at 45 min and the second at 30 min. If I use the 60 minute schedule with a 30 minute boil it would be 23 minutes first addition and 15 for second. That’s my guess. So you know this is an American IPA light or mild.
Ahh sorry. In that case, 45= 30, 30= 15.
30 min additions in a 60 min recipe, as I mentioned in the video, are also out of date.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew great thank you. We all appreciate the amount of personal time it takes for you to respond to all of us. Stay healthy and safe and thank you again.
Cheers David, same to you 🍻🍻🍻
So do you just change the bittering hop quantity to match the original recipe ibu, then the other hops just add towards the end of the boil?
It depends on the timing of the hops but usually yes. So 60 min becomes 30 min. Most other addition times are less than 30 min, so stay the same 🍻🍻🍻
Very interesting, thank u for this great video. Is floor malted Pilsener malt also matching the shorter boil duration?
Thanks. I suggest contacting the malster to be sure, it can vary.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew What about “heritage” malts? Am I right in presuming that old school boil times are the right approach when using what are being sold as old school malts?
Yes, any base malt with very low modifications is worth checking with the malster on for SMM levels. Same with floor malted Pilsner and farm malt.
Maybe it is that old habits die hard, but as you demonstrated, a shorter boil requires more hops than you would need for a 60 minute boil. For me, I'd rather spend less money on materials and extend my brew day for an additional 30 minutes.
Fair enough, it is all about knowing the options so that you can make your own choices. Naturally the example shown was more of an extreme as it has more hops needed to balance its higher alcohol. For most recipes the difference is not that much. There is also the potential taste gains too.
Assume for any hop additon below 60 mins ie 15 mins the hop schedule remains the same? Is there any changes to grain bill?
Yes, that is correct. No further changes needed except water volumes.
Great info thanks. Do you think mash should still be 60 minutes?
I do, more on this in next weeks video, where I compare commercial brewers to Homebrewers.
Thanks for the video, I would have thought that a shorter boil would have meant a smaller sparge given less boil off - wouldn't you also need to adjust for slightly lower efficiency? Also, so no base malts need the 90min boil?
Yes, a shorter boil will require less water. Efficiency will remain the same in general.
The grain that may still need a longer boil is very lightly modified farm malt but is is not commonly sold to the public.
OK, but.....I live at nearly 9000ft of elevation. water boils at 193º here. lol. none of the brewing softwares out there do an adequate job accounting for the diminished boil off that this brings. I tried a 30min boil and ended up 10% over my expected volume to the fermenter and subsequently under my OG by a corresonding amount.
I get that this is an outlier situation, but not everyone can simply go to a 30 min boil
Ok, that would be a challenge! Not something I have any experience with sadly, so hard to advise on.
What happen when we boil the worth... dms evaporation -20minutes of boil is ok , coagulation of proteins (trub) 15 minutes, isomerization of alpha acids - 90 minutes we achive the maximum extraction (around 30% utilization rate) , but just 5% more than 60 minutes. 30 minutes we will get around 20 % utilization rate. that is how i see. thanks
You will need to use more hops but there will not be any concerns with DMS.
Very interesting - I've noticed my older brewing books are 90 min boils, newer books 60 mins. I shall definitely have a go at trying 30mins with some known recipes. Do you have a similar analysis of mash times?
Thanks Simon, yes there has been a gradual shift down. Mash times at home are something I give a deeper analysis of in my next video, Homebrewer VS Commercial Brewer, the differences. It is out next Wednesday :)
Hi David, thanks for the very informative video. But what if you brew on a covered brewing system with only a small steam outlet? Will this increase the chance of DMS in your beer if you only brew for 30 minutes? Thanks, Nick
Hi Nick, As long as your steam set up is safe then you have no issues. Naturally it is vital that whilst boiling that the steam and chemical output is allowed to escape. Otherwise you will have various undesirable chemicals left in your wort.
How do think, is it need to take off a foam from a worth during a boiling? And is it need to do for NEIPA?
Stir it in so that it drops, same for all beer styles. It is protein and very much a part of the end beer.
David, what are your throughts about a 30 minute boil time for Belgian Dark Strong Ales? On the plus side, a short boil means less boil-off, thus less volume needed pre-boil. It means I can make an extra liter of wort in my small 15L kettle. On the downside, less boil-off means less sparge water and thus a lower efficiency. I could counter that with a thicker mash to keep sparge volume the same. But mash thickness for a Dark Strong Ale is already thicker than usual, not sure if any lower is a good idea. What would you do? Finally, longer boil means more maillard reactions which could provide flavours that are desirable in a Dark Strong Ale. Any thoughts?
Hi Marjin, I think the best answer here is to try both ways and see what you think.
In terms of effeciency you can manipulate this even with less sparge water. There are, after all, various areas of control. The most important thing being to dial in your effeciency rather than looking for a top score.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew Thanks. I will keep sparge water low and increase the stirring. Only afterwards will I know the efficiency and save that for future reference. What do you think about the maillard and caramelization that increases with longer boil times? Wanted, needed? I will experiment, but am also curious for your valued opinion.
Or do not stir and use that as your baseline. The difference in actual malt, on a homebrew level will be pennies. The effects of the boil are often over hyped in my opinion and are going to vary. I much prefer using flavour from more reliable sources personally. There is much you can obtain from adjuncts for example these days.
Question for you.
My 60mim recipe only has a 30min hop addition. Do I need to alter that at all? I believe you said in your video only hops great than 30 mins need to be adjusted. Thanks!
No, thats an easy conversion 🍻🍻🍻
Hey david how much extra grain do you add to make up for the less sugar in the og from a reduced boil time? I personally am upping my recipes specialty malts and all by roughly 10% each time beersmith seems to be happy with that, but is there a better way to do the conversion? Cheers🍺
Hey 🍻.
I have not had any issues hitting my numbers due to the reduction in boil time personally. I use Beersmith which automatically changes the water volumes to suit. All I have needed to change is the bittering hops.
Hi David, I saw your video and I've been following you from Italy for a while, I have a question, once the Boil time has been changed, shouldn't we also change the recipe or not?
Or you just need to change the boil time and the relative amount of hops. I ask because if I don't scale the recipe I see absolutely no changes, while scaling it I do.
Hi, many thanks.
Yes you will need to make changes if the recipe has hops that are in the first 30 minutes but that is all.
Great info, wil be giving this a go, especially due to increasing prices in electricity in the UK in particular, just a quick question beyond the boil, any adjustments required in an 80 degree hopstand? or continue as per recipe?
Thank you. No further changes needed except for water volumes but your software will automatically change this.
Great stuff! Question though, is this the case with modern "heritage" malts as well, or is this still classified as old style malts? Thinking of Barke, maybe Dingemans Pilsner, and some of the swedish heritage malts I can buy, such as Balder.
Thanks Leo. It really depends on the level of modification given by the maltster. I suggest checking with them to be sure.
What would you guess the outcome would be if you boiled the hops separately, maybe during the mash, and then added to the wort?
This is first wort hoping. It is offering a more rounded bitterness.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew I guess what I was thinking, was what would happen if you took a separate volume of water, and boiled your Hops during the hour mash. After the mash, lautering/sparging, just add your boiled hops, chill the wort, pitch yeast. It would skip the boil we typically do after mashing.
Ahh I see. Yes this works. I showed it in this video in fact:- czcams.com/video/hHPy_nNkN68/video.html
@@DavidHeathHomebrew cheers!
🍻🍻
Thanks for the video. Apologies if you've already answered but do you think reducing the boil time even more, say to 15m, would work too? Is there a reason you chose 30m and not a bit less?
Personally I much prefer the end results of 30 mins. Try 15 snd see what you think 🍻🍻🍻
@@DavidHeathHomebrew nice one, cheers
Thank you 🍻🍻🍻
How do you feel about 30min mash times also? Seems to be info out there to say you can achieve the same or very close to same efficiency
Hey Ross. When I brewed commercially most mashes converted well enough in 40 minutes but not all.If you can achieve predictable results in 30 mins then great but for the sake of 20-30 mins I stay with the hour to be sure. With homebrew I am not really looking to save time, more use the best route to the best results. The 30 minute boil is great for flavour but if it was better at two hours then I would go that route.
Thank you so much for the information. I actually brewed your imperial stout this weekend, and I had a super-thick mash. With shorter boil time I assume I will have even thicker mash and probably no sparge, and my efficiency would be even worse. How would you tackle this issue with high ABV beer?
Cheers 🍻🍻🍻
Yes, that would be thick unless you made it a reiterated mash. The boil has no effect on the mash though. You can always transfer volume from your sparge to correct this.
With stronger beers it really is best to go the reiterated route for an easier, more effecient and more predictable brew.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew Thanks alot. Im going to try reiterated mash. I got 62% mash efficiency on your imperial stout even tho I was stirring and working it alot. 🍻
Yes, reiterated will give you much better effeciency in general.
If I'm brewing a heavier Belgian ale, would I not still want a longer boil time to increase caramelization?
If that is desirable then sure. Its all about options and choices.
I have a recipe (boil time 75min) with three hop additions of 75min, 45min and 5min.
Do I simply combine the 75min and 45min additions into one? So that there are only two additions in total at 30min and 5min?
I would suggest combining the 75 min and 45 min additions to 30 mins and match the desired IBU. The 5 min can remain. Sounds like an odd recipe I must say.
Perfect, thanks!!
@Luzuuu Enjoy 🍻🍻🍻
Excellent as usual thank you.. Just a thought but how would this shorter boil time affect things If you use a steam condenser (mine should arrive this week). Would the nastier stuff still boil off? cheers
Hi Paul, yes no problem there.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew Hi David. Is it ok to reduce a 90min Pilsner boil to 30 or best to reduce to only 60mins? thanks in advance :)
30 mins in fine with modern malt
I almost exclusively boil for 30 min but I am a bit hesitant when it comes to floor malted Bohemia Pilsner. Would you opt for a 30 min boil also for that malt?
I would check with the maltster first, just to be sure. It really depends on the level of modification during malting.
Do you find any issues using 30m boils with Brewfather?, I swear it gets IBU incorrect when using this method.
Ive not had any issues personally. How accurate the IBU is could be questioned I guess but its predictions have worked very well for my recipe writing progression.
Without going to the expense of an appropriate IBU meter, it is impossible to be sure on actual IBU but brewing software only offers predictions.
When you say about yeast to increase temperature towards the end: I usually go as high as 23 on my lagers, but with ales that fermented at 18 would that be necessary? (S04)
Hi Brian, I increase temps towards the end of fermentation on ale and lager yeast. For lager yeast this is more about DMS also well as attenuation where with ale yeasts its mostly about attenuation.
Hi David, what are your thoughts in applying this practise to comercial brewing?
It is not uncommon to boil for 30 minutes commercially and has been going on for quite a long time in my experience.
Hi David ,I use GF g30. At what time should I disinfect the cooler with a 30 minute boil - standard 10-15minutes? When the flow is on, the boiling intensity decreases for some time. Should I wait for boiling to get back to normal and count 15 minutes thereafter?
Hi, In this case I suggest doing it at the end of the boil. That way you have no concerns.
Do you have any data you can share. on modern malts containing less SMM?
I would suggest approaching the malsters you use and I am sure they be able to assist you. It is well known though in the brewing trade.
Thanks David. Does changing the boil time also change the water amount needed in brew father? If going from 90 to 30min that’s 1 hour saved on the boil off rate which is about 3 litres on a G30
Yes, shorter boils mean less water being used.
Hi David , will boil hops continue to impart bitterness in say a Hazy IPA during a 15-20 minute whirlpool at either 70 or 80 degrees? How would the software compensate for this as the boil addition would assume you are cooling after 30 minutes and stopping anymore bitterness from being imparted?
Cheers!
Hi Andrew, yes this is all built into the final IBU on recipe calculators.
Hello David, can I boil your Verdant IPA 5 gal batch at 30 minutes too instead of the 60 minutes in the recipe. I’ll change the water and hops as well where needed. Thanks
Sure you can, after conversion as shown.
Hi David. 2 things to mention.
I have just made a Festbier with Weyermann Floor Malted Bohemian Pilsner Malt. According to Weyermann themselves the malt is 'nicely modified', so I trusted them and boiled for 30 mins. Just hope I haven't ruined it - it's on it's D-rest at the moment.
Secondly, I have also noticed the increased flavour with 30 minute boils which I like - however, someone on the forums mentioned the extra flavour could be down to small amounts of (beneficial) DMS. Is this true?
Hi Lisa,
I have used this malt with a short boil and had no issues at all. It is well modified.
Yes, the flavour is why I shorten my boils. Ive no idea why anyone would think this would be down to DMS though, that is totally inaccurate. It is simply due to the reduced boil off which retains more flavour. I hope this helps.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew yes, thank you.
Cheers Lisa 🍻🍻🍻
Hi David. At 4:45 you mention not covering your vessel fully during boil.
I use a "steam slayer" during boil so my lid is on but steam is transferred to a water drain.
Would this still remove the SMM?
Yes it will.
Hi David, I brew on an Anvil Foundry with only 120V, so have a boil that is just over a simmer unless I partially cover the kettle. Do you think the 30 min boil method will still work without using 240V? I make a ton of lagers and would hate to get DMS, but am definitely going to try this method in one of my upcoming brews.
Yes, as long as you can boil, then all is good. A vigorous boil is not as required as was first thought either.
I feel you have left out some important facts from this oversimplistic discussion. Its not just about hop utilisation.
It is true that pale/light styles can benefit from a shorter boil time, but some meatier/complex beers simply taste better on a longer boil. I say this from experience, as you dont get complex sugars from step mashing or complex decoction alone.
in fact, a stout is defintely not made better with a short boil.
There is always more to say on a subject but most want a bite sized video with the core points, so I cater to this and if people wonder further I answer those thoughts in the comments. What works best boil wise is simply subject to taste though.
This is a great point, and I would be curious (and frankly - love it) if anyone happens to have a solid stout recipe that would use a 30 min boil as well as pressure fermentation, so as to allow the grain to glass timing to be reduced. Most stouts I’ve brewed, on beergas and on c02, tend to require 5+ weeks in order for flavors to balance out
It is all opinion Joe. You might well prefer a short or even no boil stout. You can adapt any recipe to this.
I want to change my 60 min boil to 30 min boil since i never use hops at 60 min but my consurn is... if i change to 30 min i will use less water that meen less water to sparge the grain...
Dont worry, it will work out just fine.
I think that boiling 60' the beer clarity is enhanced
Is clarity more important that flavour? Only you can decide. I will also mention that clarity can be achieved in various other ways.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew just saying. So you agree that the clarity of the beer is decreased?
If you think about the hot break and how it works then I think the difference will be small if any in most cases but not all.
What about driving off DMS?
Just got to the DMS bit 🤦🏻♂️
Good 🍻🍻🍻
With regard to ensuring lid is off when boiling to get rid of Dms, on a brewtools system can you leave the steam hat and condenser on, or do they have to off also. Thanks
There is no problem using steam condensers as they also allow these chemicals to boil off and away.
How about no boil? the old farmhouse way?
I already have videos all about no boil/raw brewing. Here is a great one to start with:- czcams.com/video/jKihXgIluwY/video.html
So you talked a lot about hops but when all grain brewing, is there any concern about extracting all the sugar? I am embarrassed to say I have only ever done extract so that would not be an issue for me but I am on the verge of jumping to all grain. Oh hold on! The sparging is all done pre boil right? Sorry stupid question, thinking out loud but I won't delete my stupidity.
No problem 🍻🍻🍻
What about the flavor and aroma hop additions? Shouldn't those times be reduced as well? They're 30 min and under but if those are cut in half like the bittering addition, could you not see more flavor and aroma from those hops as well?
No, keep these at the same levels for the same result.
No, keep these at the same levels for the same result. The only reason you change hops that come before the 30 min is to be true to your recipe. There is no need to change anything else.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew Ok. If you did reduce those times, is there any negative outcomes from it? I see where NEIPAs lack (or recommended not to have) any 60 min bittering additions so was wondering. Thanks for the quick reply!
Changing a bittering hop addition from 60 min to 30 min will be fine as long as you keep the same IBU. What else did you have in mind? Can you give examples?
@@DavidHeathHomebrew I guess what I'm confused on is the fact anything over 30 mins is being changed. Seems if you change one you should change all?
Using an American IPA as an example, let's say you have 3 hop additions at 60, 30, and 15min. If you move the 60min addition up to 30 (and adjust the IBU for it), you now have two 30min additions. Are you now going to get some flavor/aroma from that hop? How would it affect the other hop addition at 30min? The last addition at 15min? That's why I was wondering about adjusting those hop additions below 30min.
Anyone have any links to scientific papers to show evidence that short boil times create beer stability similar to 60/90 boils??
Pro brewing book are full of the chemistry behind 90/60 boils for reducing wort to increase shelf life.
When did this change?
Where is the evidence in a published peer reviewed form?
Maybe there is something out there on this but personally I did my own testing and judged it for myself.
Hi David. I really like this 30 minute boil concept. Brew days are long enough. I have a question about pre boil volume. I use a Grainfather G30 and for my standard 23L batch, I collect 28L of pre boil wort after sparge for the usual 60 min boil. But what pre boil volume would this be for a 30 minute boil? (Still 23L batch). I imagine it would be less
Most calculators include a "boil rate" or similar (amount of water evaporated per hour). This depends on your setup, but is generally 3-4L/H. When you change your boil time it should update the water amounts in the mash. If you're doing it by hand: 28L>23L, you're losing 5L. How much of that is trub? Assuming 1L, that would make your boil 4L/H. That's 2L less wort needed for a 30m boil.
Good info from Drew already. Most brewing software will figure this out for you.
Thanks David and Drevi. Very helpful. I’ve dug around in the settings for my equipment profile in the app and it’s set to 3L an hour boil off rate. Plus changing from 60 min to 30 min boil removes 1.5L from the sparge. So then it seems I should collect 1.5L less wort after sparge (pre-boil) - so I should collect 26.5L pre-boil for a 30 min boil instead of 28L for the 60 min boil. That all sounds correct?
@@wesbrice1574 Yes. The 3L can be off if it's the default, but testing is the only way to find out.
If you are using Brewfather then I simply change the boil time and it does the rest.
I changed the bittering addition to the right IBU and wanted to keep the late additions the same as not to overpower the beer, but that resulted in a far lower total IBU. Would you increase the bittering charge? Or also increase the late addition hops?
I suggest just adjusting the bittering addition to make up for lost IBU. You wont lose bitterness from later additions though, as they are still being boiled for the same time.
Thanks for the quick reply!
And I just realized my mistake. If you try to scale a recipe but put in the wrong hop wit the wrong aa, it isn't going to work. :)
I figured there must be an error somewhere. Glad you found it 🍻🍻🍻
You didn't say anything about caromelything and melonas that comes from during long time boil, that very necessary for high gravity stiles as porter and stout for example. You didn't say anything too about denaturation of proteins as result of more long boiling.
With best regard😊
In the end beer brewing with its many options is a matter of taste. There are some styles where some might wish to boil longer. I have to say though some of the darker styles are very good with no boil. Plenty to experiment with.
You said balance and left taste out of your introduction! While some beers require balance, usually the lite ones, I hold taste as priority number one. Very few of the commercial beers I rate highly are well balanced. I prefer my rugged beers over the well groomed city beers, which I place in the Miller Lite, Bud Lite and Coors little to no taste beers. I understand the so called modernization of brewing processes but I stay away from current so called modern faster and faster and faster brewing! I simply enjoy brewing and shorter boil times reduces my enjoy time. Let the younger populous run in the rat-race! I’ll stay with my tried and true boil times that I have used for over 5 decades! Cheers
Balance in reality can take on various forms but in the end it all boils down to taste. The point here though is that if you shift the bittering hop from 60 minutes to 30 minutes then the process that follows is rebalancing.
It is totally down to the individual though when it comes to all the aspects and choices available in brewing. As I said in the video, it is all about the choices 🍻
are there any scientific materials that prove the protein coagulation under proper ph at boil could be completed in just 30 minutes?
I must say that I have not encountered such work but then I have not really been looking. I have been simply running my own tests of boil times of varying length including no boil.
I have noted that much protein coagulation occurs very early in the boil via the hot break.
I have not had issue clearing 30 minute boil beers, including those containing high amounts of wheat and rye with a simple cold crash for 3 days. I feel that self testing is far more interesting too.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew cool!
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