The Multifix Tool Post Adventure
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- čas přidán 2. 09. 2021
- I recently invested a good bit of money on a Multifix tool post for my new lathe. I decided to make this video to help people set it up and install it on their lathes at home. However, I came across several issues as I went along and I feel it is important to share these with you and how I overcame them. I apologize in advance as this video is quite dense and detailed, but I think it is important. I hope you find it interesting and please comment if you have any questions.
All the best
Jimmy
The forum link for the Multifix tool post sizes table; scroll down to the center of the page to see it
www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/t...
A part from the tool catalog I have recently found about Multifix tool post sizes
www.rotagriponline.com/datashe... - Jak na to + styl
Wherever the QCTP comes from, the work around is true the compound, mount the QCTP with a tool holder, true that as well, drop in the appropriate size centering punch to mark the QCTP zero hole center for the dowel pin.
This (and not measuring the hole location then transferring to the topslide) is the right way to install the toolpost
Many thanks for posting your adventure. I have been considering a multifix and your video answered many of my questions.
Thank you very much for the comment, I really appreciate it!
Regards from sunny Greece
Jimmy
Incredibly informative video. Thank you so much for taking the time and hard work. Great stuff my friend.
Thank you my friend. I am really happy that you like it. It is always a pleasure to share with all of you, what I do or learn. Thanks again!
Take care my friend
Dimitris
I have used these tool posts for about 20 years now. I have used both the original Multifix and the China knock offs. Here is my take, I believe the errors are in the holders themselves. My self when I work I like to dial in my compound so I know where I am at. If you are using a DRO with multiple offests you can program in all your tool offsets and run your manual lathe like you would a CNC. You can almost turn with out measuring. You just need to measure when your tolerances are small. So as this relates to the tool post. There are certain tools which need to be set up accurate. Parting tools, threading tools and drilling tools. The Multifix has some specialty holders. One being the parting blade, the other the boring bar holder. There angle is fixed and can not be adjusted relative to each other. So that means the tool post is the reference. The plain holders are not as big a deal because you can dial in tools individually in each holder. So my advice to someone buying into the system is to buy the specialty holders as original Swiss or German brand and then spend less on the generic holders. And if you can buy them as a set so hopefully they match each other.
The most useful comment here
That's what I saw as well in @JimmysCanal 's footage of measurements. The tool holder castings appear hollow in the middle of the back, maybe from cooling shrinkage and not being properly re-machined. It's a problem for Peter Went and other clone importers to sort out for sure, but I think the root problem might be outside the tool post and in the tool holders.
Great job and the eccentric dowel pin idea was brilliant.
Thank you very much for your comment sir, I appreciate it! Glad to know that you like it.
Cheers
Jimmy
this is what i call an complete tour, thanks a lot
Thank you for your comment sir, I appreciate it!
All the best
Jimmy
Thank you for your idea,I just bought a same lathe and doing the dry on it.
What an awesome share my friend… nice work here!
Thank you very much, glad that you like it!
All the best
Jimmy
Thank you for the informative video. I was wondering could you mill the tool holders so they run true to the axis?
Thanks for your comment Russell!
Yes, I can mill the holders, but there is no immediate need to do that. You see, after inserting the cutting tool in the holder I can use the dial indicator to align it exactly to 0 and this tool I would no longer need to take it out (this applies for indexable carbide tools), I would need only to change the carbide tip; unfortunatly it doesn't apply to HSS tools that needs grinding, but its not a huge issue to use the dial indicator again to re-align the tool.
All the best
Dimitris
Great video, Thank You. I noticed all of the tool holders seemed to be slightly bowed in at the centre. perhaps worth setting the centre up on an angle plate mounted on a surface grinder then you could set your centre up to use the parallel pin and grind the tool holders true.
Thank you very much, I appreciate your comment!
What you said is a good idea, unfortunately I don't have access to a surface grinder :(
Another approach is if I set it up on the mill and with a carbide end mill bring it as true as possible?
Thanks again for the comment.
Regards from Greece
Jimmy
Excellent! Thank you.
Thank you for the comment!
All the best
Jimmy
Very very informative, thanks.
Thank you my friend, I really appreciate your comment!
Regards from Greece
Jimmy
Glad i saw this Going to get the AXA one now!!
Thanks for the comment! All the best.
Jimmy
GRACIAS MUY BUEN VIDEO !!👍👍📏📐
Muchas gracias, me alegra que te guste!
Mis mejores deseos
Jimmy
Good stuff!
Thank you sir!
All the best
Jimmy
The mistake you made is expecting one of the dowel pin holes being the "0" hole. If there was one, it would probably be marked somehow. Also, measuring the hole's location then transferring the measurement to your topslide is not a super accurate way. You should install everything, align/dial/true the topslide, toolpost with a toolholder, then drill from the top, directly through the hole in the toolpost, or use a transfer punch through the hole to mark the spot on the topslide that needs to be drilled. As you found out, the plain toolholders are not the most accurate thing, I would try this alignment with a boring bar toolholder (e.g. the one with a 15 or 16 mm cylindrical opening, or one with the machined V groove) or a parting tool toolholder - with a bar or the parting tool mounted, of course.
Dialing on the edge of your topslide is only good if you know for sure that it's square to the topslide's axis. I wouldn't take this for granted. So if you dial it in and get your protractor not at 0, is it the protractor installed badly, the topslide's edge being not square, or both? Afaik you're going about it the wrong way. Put an accurately turned (or purchased) test bar into the lathe between centers (I purchased such a bar with a morse taper on one side). Mount an indicator into your toolpost (or use a magnetic mount on top of your topslide). Use the carriage feed to go along the test bar. This is to verify your tailstock alignment. If it's not aligned, you have to correct this first. Then you can proceed to dial in the topslide with the same setup. Rotate it (small taps with a plastic-faced mallet) until the indicator doesn't move when you use the topslide feed. This method, as well as another cool tip, is described nicely by Harold Hall: www.homews.co.uk/page242.html
Very useful comment. As I see, a lot of cheap Chinese lathe owners try to make their machines super precise, including of use all other instruments in the same quality. Precise lathe chuck 125 mm (useful in mini lathe) is 5x more expensive than Chinese one. Brand QCTP as original one can be more expensive than two cheap lathe machines
100% correct, the guy in this video did it incorrectly.
complimenti,, sei statto bravissimo,, molto, molto, bene. è chiaro che sei un tipo molto preciso. nella vita o meccanica ci vuole sempre un pò di " tolleranza"
Grazie mille
Ti auguro il meglio
Jimmy
Just found your channel and Subscribe. Nice work
Thanks for the comment and the subscription!
All the best
Jimmy
Dziękuję za naukę
Dziękuję za Twój komentarz!
Wszystkiego dobrego
Jimmy
I wonder if he’s had an issue with a batch of the A size, I’m looking into QCTPs at the moment and he seemed keen to sell me an AS size, which is in between A and AA - and unique to him.
Thanks for the video, very informative!
Hello Jan,
Thank you very much for the comment, I appreciate it! Yes, I know he has a couple of intermediate sizes like, Aaa and AS that no one other has. I think that it would be wise to ask for info first before you proceed in any purchase; in case that you buy something from him, check the accuracy of tool shortly after you receive it and if you find inaccuracies (like with my toolpost) ask for refund! Glad to share as always.
Thanks again for the comment.
All the best
Jimmy
@@JimmysCanal Thanks for the reply. I prefer to buy quality used stuff to be honest. I have an AA size tool post for a smaller lathe and the quality is very nice, the copy stuff doesn’t seem as well made, although PeWe claim theirs are made with wire EDM and are therefore more accurate.
All the best
You're really lucky to have an original AA Multifix, I'm sure that's amazing. I also like quality used tools; when I was looking among seller on ebay for the A size Multifix I found a used original one - almost pristine contition - but its price was 420 Euros and was only the toolpost without any tool holders; unfortunately was way above my budget.
I have seen various of PeWe's YT videos, praizing the quality of his tools, but as it seems the quality he claims isn't real. The funny thing is at one of his videos says that he had found accuracy problems with one of his manufacture associate in China and that forced him to find another manufacturer (again in China).
I wonder, if my tool post and holders are perhaps one of many other sets from that particular manufacturer that PeWe had found accuracy problems and instead of sending them back to the factory he kept them (probably under a super discount offering from the manufacturer) and channel these on the market thinking of "who's gonna find the problem and if somenone found out, I can deal with it at that particular moment".
Of course I can't be sure for the above mentioned, are just a thought of mine.
Regards from Greece
Jimmy
It Seems , That your Junk ! Needs ! To ! Be put ! Straight into the Metal ! Shreadder !! For you Peace of Mind !! Here !
I have the original and is excellent.
You're very lucky to have the one of original's. I have no doubts that's excellent!
All the best
Jimmy
I have a similar sized lathe to your weiss. Do you feel the size A is the correct size for your lathe, mine is on the border of AS and A.
Yes, the A size is the correct size for my lathe.
If you want to verify the proper size toolpost for your lathe, check the links I have put on the description of the video.
All the best
Jimmy
@@JimmysCanal Thank you, I appreciate it! I did check out the different charts from different companies, and each one is a little different. So knowing that yours works well helps. I have a grizzly G0602 which from what I can see is a clone of your Weiss WM250G that you run.
@@joshspeer2273 Glad to know that I helped in a way, I hope you find something of quality in a good price.
All the best
Jimmy
How about drilling bigger eccentric holes (and using a bigger straight pin) so that everything falls to it's place?
Thanks for the idea, but I'm not willing to do anything more; I have already done a lot of work trying to align a tool that's been defective from its manufacturing.
All the best
Jimmy
Τέλος καλό, όλα καλά Δημήτρη!
Τουλάχιστον απέφυγες την εμενταλοποίηση του εργαλειοφορέα!
Ναι, ευτυχώς όλα καλά! "Εμενταλοποίηση" τέλειο χαχαχα, ναι τη γλύτωσα, δεν μου καθόταν καλά να ξανατρυπήσω το top slide.
Καλή συνέχεια φιλαράκι!
I never drilled for the dowel pin. THe tool holder, in my experience does not move once the hold down nut is tight.
Setting the tool holder square to the chuck is easy and seldom redone.
The dowel pin increases the rigidity of the tool post and the tool holder respectively.
Yes, its easy to set up the tool holder square to the chuck if you haven't install a dowel pin, but once the pin it's set to the right position and the toolpost with the holder measured with the dial indicator, then each time you insert another tool holder in the toolpost it will be parallel to the chuck.
Cheers
Jimmy
I totally agree. You don't need the dowel pin. Without the pin the tool holder angle is adjustable exactly in 10 seconds.
From 18:00 - why do all that? Parallelism to chuck here doesn't matter at all, plus-minus half degree change nothing. You must set cutout and threading cutters anyway, unless you plan to square all holders and cutters on the mill... which again makes your fiddling with dowel pointless.
If someone uses this type of QCTP and uses as well the dowel pin, then the parallelism of the holders to the chuck is important especially when he's having the top slide parallel to the lathe bed and uses it for more accurate passes, otherwise the top slide will create a cone, I hope that this make sense.
All the best
Jimmy
@@JimmysCanal Yep, i do that, but i make sure that actual lateral feeds are parallel, exact angle of the toolpost is totally irrelevant. I mean, if your compound is perfectly square in all ways possible - sure, you can refer to it's butt, but this lathe is not too square, even though it's much better than anything else in 3k$ price range.
Thanks for your reply!
I don't disagree with you; what I'm saying is that for using the advantage of the preset angles that this toolpost gives, it must be aligned properly. One more reason to be aligned properly, it is because we know that lathes in the range of 2.5 -3.5K$ aren't perfect.
Cheers
Jimmy
@@JimmysCanal As seen in your video, the protractor on the topslide is just a rough guide. 0 degrees on the protractor does not give you square, you had to set somewhere between 0 and 0.5 to have it square. So it seems like if you want it accurately square (e.g. for threading), then you need to use a dial indicator and fine tune the angle anyway, then what does it matter what the protractor shows? Just indicate on your threading tool's shank and zero on that. If the only toolpost you're using on your topslide is this QCTP, you might as well have removed the topslide protractor and reinstalled it so that it matches your actual toolpost as installed.
I agree with @evilgremlin. All the measurements and alignments you've done only affect angle between knife and cutted element. They have nothing about perpendicularity movement between tool holder and material.
Unless you need super precision in setting knife's angle. Otherwise 1 degree is completely acceptable. Perchance it might affect cutting operation, but I doubt it.
Greetings
Tom.
Why don't you contact PWT tools. I've dealt with him in the past, and found him to be very helpful and knowledgeable. If this turns out to be a knockoff, I'm sure he would want to know. If it is a proper one made by him, I'm also sure he would rectify any problems. As others have said, a brilliant vid with great detail... Thanks!
Hello John,
Thank you very much for your comment! Now, another viewer 'oudijzergek' asked me the same thing as you are; my answer to that particular viewer explains the reason why I didn't contact PeWe.
I will ask you to forgive me for this, I think it would be best not to repeat myself by writing the same answer, if you have half a minute you can find it just below and read it. Thanks again. Glad to share as always.
All the best
Jimmy
Hi John Kelly,
yes, your question is correct, why he didn’t make a contact?
Two things at first: He is living in Athen and he blame for the slowly delivery of the Greek Post? And second, he blame me because HE DRILLED A HOLE at the wrong position? Really, I am guilty for this? Nowhere is written that one hole is a zero point and possible to use to align the system in zero position on the compound rest. Until today, after more than 66.000 sold Multifix parts, this is the first time that somebody publish the idea to use the holes in the bottom to align the system. If the holes are in relation to each other in the correct angle, well, this I am not able to judge, for this I would need the center piece here for checking. But it is possible to see in the video, that no hole is exactly in the middle of one teeth (which would be necessary when you want to use it for alignment) and so it is very clear and without any doubt: It is his failure.
But the most shameful is: All together there are 37 (thirty seven) mails back and forth between him, his friend and me. In the mails I told him that I got COVID and after this I got a Cataract operation for one eye and I wrote that I will get also an operation for the other eye and so it will take some time to write the next mail. And what was his reaction? He send me a nasty mail and he wrote - quote - I should take more care for the customer !!!!!!!!!!
Also he wrote something which is like a threat - quote - “After I place the order I told you, that I have a CZcams channel with over 12k machinist followers on which I wanted to promote your product. I no longer feel I can promote it due to your poor customer service.” my reaction was that I wrote that it is the best when he send back the goods and that I will refund him.
Let see what the truth is but I think that JimmysCanal dont want this: To clear the situation, I can publish this 37 mails (it is just one mail but inside are all 37 mails in chronical order).
Why do you need to have to tool holders so accurate? It's a 40 position holder, so you just move it one tooth. Just machine each holder in the lathe to make them perfect.
Because the particular seller who also states that upon his improved designs the Multifix tool post and holders are built so very accurate.
He puts his name on the tools and praise himself and his tools through his site and YT channel for being the best on the market - besides that he doesn't offer what he states, his tools are very expencieve.
I regret the moment I bought these tools from that seller, paying so much money for something that don't worth; with half the price I would bought something similar from ebay knowing that wouldn't be perfect but at least it would be cheap!
If you sir, was in that same position as me what you would think of? that there are 40 different positions to put the tool on? or that you paid so much money for something that its not so accurate as the seller states?
Thank you for the comment!
All the best
Jimmy
You're tightening the holders down wrong BTW. A real MFTP is meant to tighten to the rear never pulled towards the front.
Thank you for the tip!
All the best
Jimmy
I only just found this video so it might be a bit late to comment but have you considered that as you have 40 tool holder positions this gives you a rotation of 9 degrees per notch. If those dowel holes underneath are actually 3 and 6 degrees out of line from 90 and 180 degrees from the 0 mark, this would give you 2 x 40 positions more, so 120 positions in all, 3 degrees per position. Of course you would have to remember all the maths when using it this way and if they really are 2.5 and 5.5 degrees out, then its not going to work, but it might have been the way it was intended if the machining had been spot on. If it were me, I would have another check to see if the measurements were right. Very interesting video by the way, I opted for a cuniform tool post so I get to set the angles every time I use it, it becomes easier with practise.
Thank you very much for the comment, I appreciate it!
I agree in everything you said about the position of the dowel holes (either if are in the right position or not).
Now, I have checked the toolpost twice after the first check you saw in the video and I'm taking almost the same measurements.
I don't know if its right or wrong, but I have accept that I'll never use these other two dowel holes; I said to myself that if some day buy another lathe, I will search for a used original Multifix toolpost or I'll buy an Aloris-Dorian toolpost replica.
Thanks again for your comment!
Regards from Greece
Jimmy
The aloris style works well and is useful for tiny adjustments with awkward shaped tools, maybe not as rigid as the A type but close.
I use one of the smallest models from PWT and they are really nice to work with on my small lathe. However I found out that the locating holes are are placed at a different distant from the centerline bolt. Totally useless so I managed to locate my zero degrees by lining up from the chuck front surface.
@@goranrosen5330 Thanks for the comment.
If the locating holes where at the proper position, then the process of fitting the toolpost as well the use of these holes would be fast and easy.
All the best
Jimmy
@@JimmysCanal But the holes are not at the proper position and it's all depending on where the parts were made. My Sieg SC4 is fairly accurate but some of the not seen surfaces in the tailstock and elsewhere reminds me of a cranter site.
Spend the extra dosh and get the Swiss one.
If I had the extra money I would probably done it.
Ouch.
i use PWT multifix AS on my myford and it works very well, ill never get something like this in my results . always very discent
Post comment: Pee Wee Tools didn't return any of my 3 inquiries to buy theirs when they found out I bought direct from Create Tool. Does that tell you something? Left a bad taste in my mouth & I won't patronize them anytime soon.
Yes, of course it tells something!
Thanks for the comment.
Cheers
Jimmy
I find Peter to communicate quickly and dispatch promptly, I have bought 3 tool posts from PeWe over the years and I am very happy, by the way I am very picky on quality!!
Pewe has been great to deal with. Peter knows his stuff and his prices are fair.
Vertex, (Taiwanese) on a different planet to Chinese stuff, and no, I don't sell them or work for them.
Without a doubt Vertex makes quality tools, aren't the top but definitely are away better from the majority of the Chinese ones.
All the best
Jimmy
it is too expensive, so I bought the chinese quick change, and it is only about 100 dollars.
Okay, its well done, but it feels like 13 steps to nowhere. All I need to get accurate cuts is a good rigid hold. This is beautiful and clever, but I don't have 6 weeks to do all this while my machine waits for a toolholder. Nice job though..
Well Done, extremely thorough and detailed (as usual)! You definitely received a Monday or Friday set of these and a Shame on the manufacturer and vendor, at those prices. The difference between holders was probably the saddest thing other than the pin locations. They obviously had an issue with the milling/hardening of them. If I read the DI properly, it looks like all the holders had a high spot in the middle of the recess where the tool sets, allowing it to cant in either direction...1-800-Bad-JuJu! One heck of a lot of work and fix though, and at least you have something usable now! Always appreciate the quality you bring to your work and share with others! ~PJ
Thank you very much PJ, I really appreciate your comment! Yes, unfortunately it is a Monday or Friday set; but its not only their fault, it's mine as well for not starting the project as soon as I received it, perhaps I'll had avoid all this. Anyway, it is as you said it, now I have something usable.
As for the holders, most of these are a bit taper (from edge to edge the difference from the 0 point is from 0.1 to 0.2mm), the others are 0 at both edges and having a short of a radius in middle of about 0.1mm deep. As always, glad to share with all of you.
All the best
Dimitris
I'm so damn glad I didn't buy PWT.
He has no quality control and/or is deliberately screwing customers.
Life is too short for bad tools. Thx a lot for this superb vid.
Did you report the inaccuracy to Peter ?. He fixed the issue I had with the E-size for my home lathe quick as a flash ! and sent me a replacement as soon as it got through production !.
You know of course that Peter (PeWetools) is the most knowligable guy on all things multifix you will ever know.
Love my A-size I got for our new lathe at work, perfect in any way !.
Hello,
No I didn't reported it, you see 7 months after my purchase, I really doubt if he would do or care for anything. I'm saying that judging from he's respondance when initialy arised the problem with the missing square holder and the two wrong tool holders that I received with the two A sizes I'd ordered.
I sent him more than 5 messages through ebay within a month after I received the order, explaining the problems; eventually replied by saying that the missing tool holder had been shipped, but nothing about the two wrong holders. I messaged him again, he replied after a week by saying "that it would be better to contact him at his business email"; although I did that he replied after 8 days by saying "I'll contact you with soon", of course he didn't. I sent him one last message by saying that "he's doesn't leave my any other choice but to open a case on ebay" on that message replied! And within a week I received the square holder and the two replacement holders.
Now, I don't know and I don't really care if he's the expert on Multifix toolpost's. What I know for sure is, that in one hand praises his tools and their accuracy through his YT videos and on the other hand he is selling them without checking them.
All the best
Jimmy
HE DRILLED ! THE HOLE ! In the WRONG SPOT !! THAT'S WHAT HE'S WHINGING !! ABOUT !!!
@@davidwillard7334 Yes, because he's stupid. He assumes stuff. Assuming is the biggest mistake you can make
Made in China at this price will never be sustainably accurate and precise. Simply avoid.
@@JimmysCanal So you bought this directly from Peter Wendlandt (PeWeTools), not from some third party? I think no matter the buyer protection expiring, you should have emailed/phoned them (they have a phone number as well) to discuss the alleged inaccuracies. I'm sure he values his reputation and would be interested to look into it.