This was surprisingly easy to get going, looking solid so far. The hardware design is mostly done and out, going to polish the SW next. github.com/viesturz/TapChange...
there was always the option to built the klipper MMU unit called "enraged rabbit carrot feeder" that brought multicolor to single extruder. It might not be a perfect solution, but for a simple color print, this works fine.
@@leeroyjenkins7915 Very not the same! When you have 1 tool head, you always have to unthread the thread, push the other one in and squeeze out a lot of material to wash out old color from the hotend. Often this uses more material than the weight of the printed object. Here, however, each head is a specific colour and only enough has to be cleaned to keep the leaked material from getting on the printed object.
Anyway, if you want a Voron and a tool changer, I think the Trident is much more practical because the X-Y axis always stays in one plane and only the table is tilted in the Z direction. When changing tool heads, you don't always have all that Z movement.
@@jakabgipsz4788But aren't you losing Print volume in the Y direction with Trident? With 2.4 you only lose print volume in Y direction in a certain hight if I understand it correctly
@@jakabgipsz4788 As the other commenter pointed out, would you not lose print volume due to the toolheads being at the front of the printer? It's probably OK in the Voron 2.4 as well because the Z-direction is capable of very fast movement thanks to the belted design.
I like the concept, you've avoided the weight of an extra servo or stepper on the tool carrier that other solutions have, and the extra cabling that has to be dragged around. I could see something similar being applied to core-xy's in which the bed moves in Z; a servo that moves a rail holding the toolheads the extra cm or so it takes to gets the tool place or displaced.
Good work, i like to see something that covers the hot ends, so when the tool changer connects to it, it stops for a few seconds to reach correct pressure, then moves the tool head away from the cover to print. I.E NO need for a purge tower. That would be awesome. But great work so far. I going to keep a track of your progress.
Set offset. Either manually using calibration prints, or automatically using a nozzle camera or probe. There are a bunch of projects for this out there.
@@viesturz I don't use camera for Z. Due to the nature of IDEX, I make myself calibrate Z in hardware. My hotend allows for easy manual z adjustment. See following image: ae01.alicdn.com/kf/S79606a873489473d8f9711e4a38c7e4cM.jpg
@@viesturz You should look into a camera based system (like ours, or alternative). It'll make your life way easier for XY and also a good way to check for XY repeatability when you do many tool changes.
@@viesturz I'll probably get kTAMV setup once I finish building my Proforge 4. Or at least a permanent mount + macro setup for manual camera assisted calibration. Should allow me to manually calibrate in less than a minute 😬 will let you know
Hate to see the rail go, but gotta go with what works. I'd like to see some more info on the nozzle offset calibration setup. I am searching for a better solution for my IDEX.
No, currently the offsets are measured once and fixed in config. Only tool 0 is tapped on start. Taping each tool is def a way to automate some of the calibration. github.com/viesturz/NozzleAlign does a good job so I have not had a need for it really.
Are you using the toolchanger plugin for klipper or is everything macro based? Im also currently designing a toolchanger, but im not sure if i want a purely macro based firmware or use the plugin
I use TypQxQ's plugin. See github.com/viesturz/tapchanger for my config. It's a bit macro heavy for my liking, but IMO the best there currently is for Klipper. Either the plugin or macro works. I think the main advantage of the plugin is proper readable config sections for each tool, the rest is a big sea of macros anyway.
@@C650101 I would probably go with a servo based changer for trident. Tapchanger is really meant for flying gantry. You can probably make something work for a fixed gantry, but there are simpler ways to do that.
Was thinking about this as well. However, then there must be either a x-travel to lock or additional locking mechanism. The elegance of this solution is using a z-move for locking. Amazing work
Looks great! The only thing I hate (and its not just yours, its just the way it works.) is that it goes over the part first, then to the purge block. I wish it just went straight to the block.
Yeah, Prusa slicer is super buggy for multi extruder. They seem to be really stuggling. There are hundreds of bugs in the repo without much progress. 2.6 beta still horrible. IMO that's the main reason multi hotend XL is so late.
You don’t need to be super smart to 3D Model at all because it is just slightly more advanced version of drawing. A lot of the process is taking measurements and constraining those dimensions. If you don’t try you’ll never learn so I recommend trying it out on a simple project or tutorial project from the many online tutorials for programs like fusion 360.
Thanks, Much appreciated! Testing help is probably the best support right now. Also documentation, etc. I'm really focused on the core mount piece, the rest is just a quick hack job. If you have some cad skillz, improvements to the dock and cable harness would be appreciated.
A lot of Z-direction movement makes the printer slow and wears it out. The Voron Trident would be the right one for this... Of course if you already have a 2.4 -then this is the solution. Nice job anyway! Anyway, it's still faster than an MMU...
It can go a lot faster: czcams.com/video/S-om0MPE5qI/video.html The toolhead of the trident does not gò up and down in Z like the 2.4. Therefor it can not hook and unhook these toolheads onto their cradles. With a Trident you should look for a docking procedure which only need XY movements, like the Prusa XL. This makes that you need more width for each toolhead cradle.. A solution to still use Tapchanger lite on a Trident is making use of a cradle bar that moves up and down. That's a lot of extra work. And if you decide on that, such a toolbar could speed up tool changes for a 2.4 also 😉
Do you mean the tool changing part or the entire printer? The printer is just voron 2.4 - unlikely to be mass produced, but there are plenty of DIY kits available. The toolchange adapter - who knows. Right now it's aimed to be reasonably easy 3d printable and assembled using off the shelf parts and a metal hacksaw.
Awesome seeing this amazing project slowly coming to its first working iteration. Love to see it.
Man i always wanted to build a voron but the fact that it is only single material was holding me back. This changes everything !
there was always the option to built the klipper MMU unit called "enraged rabbit carrot feeder" that brought multicolor to single extruder. It might not be a perfect solution, but for a simple color print, this works fine.
@@leeroyjenkins7915 Very not the same! When you have 1 tool head, you always have to unthread the thread, push the other one in and squeeze out a lot of material to wash out old color from the hotend. Often this uses more material than the weight of the printed object.
Here, however, each head is a specific colour and only enough has to be cleaned to keep the leaked material from getting on the printed object.
Anyway, if you want a Voron and a tool changer, I think the Trident is much more practical because the X-Y axis always stays in one plane and only the table is tilted in the Z direction.
When changing tool heads, you don't always have all that Z movement.
@@jakabgipsz4788But aren't you losing Print volume in the Y direction with Trident? With 2.4 you only lose print volume in Y direction in a certain hight if I understand it correctly
@@jakabgipsz4788 As the other commenter pointed out, would you not lose print volume due to the toolheads being at the front of the printer? It's probably OK in the Voron 2.4 as well because the Z-direction is capable of very fast movement thanks to the belted design.
Looks great! can't wait to try it!
Dude your boop or mini tap is sick. Would love to try something like this.
I like the concept, you've avoided the weight of an extra servo or stepper on the tool carrier that other solutions have, and the extra cabling that has to be dragged around. I could see something similar being applied to core-xy's in which the bed moves in Z; a servo that moves a rail holding the toolheads the extra cm or so it takes to gets the tool place or displaced.
Just fiy, corexy machines with a fixed bed are called flying gantry, the ones in which the bed moves on the z axis are called fixed gantry
Amazing work
Awesome! Best with a descent bed
Good work, i like to see something that covers the hot ends, so when the tool changer connects to it, it stops for a few seconds to reach correct pressure, then moves the tool head away from the cover to print. I.E NO need for a purge tower. That would be awesome. But great work so far. I going to keep a track of your progress.
This is just bealtifull man...
It is beautiful 😍
Holly shit!! exelent!!
Iedvesmojoši, super!
How do you make the XYZ coordinates of each nozzle not deviate? Set offset? Assembly process? This is the best multi-color scheme I have seen so far!!
Set offset. Either manually using calibration prints, or automatically using a nozzle camera or probe. There are a bunch of projects for this out there.
Wow!
Looking good! Is that CXC calibration cube? I am testing camera assisted calibration and very happy with the results.
I'm using touch based calibration, not perfect, but passable.
How do you calibrate Z with camera?
@@viesturz I don't use camera for Z. Due to the nature of IDEX, I make myself calibrate Z in hardware. My hotend allows for easy manual z adjustment. See following image: ae01.alicdn.com/kf/S79606a873489473d8f9711e4a38c7e4cM.jpg
@@viesturz You should look into a camera based system (like ours, or alternative). It'll make your life way easier for XY and also a good way to check for XY repeatability when you do many tool changes.
@@emberprototypes I have. Unfortunately the setup hassle is too much. Ping me once you have a Klipper plugin.
@@viesturz I'll probably get kTAMV setup once I finish building my Proforge 4. Or at least a permanent mount + macro setup for manual camera assisted calibration. Should allow me to manually calibrate in less than a minute 😬 will let you know
How you make progress so fast? 😮
Hate to see the rail go, but gotta go with what works. I'd like to see some more info on the nozzle offset calibration setup. I am searching for a better solution for my IDEX.
I'm using github.com/viesturz/NozzleAlign
It's been a bit of a hit or miss.
Improving that is next on my Todo list.
The rail is not totally out of the window yet. But becoming a backup plan for sure.
@@viesturz I like the bearing idea way more because it seems lighter. I may be wrong about that.
Whoa, you changed the tap mechanism?
Does it still work as good as regular TAP?
Btw, I wanted to buy trident, but now, I can't decide.
Seems to be working just fine. Not seeing any particular performance diffs to TAP.
Any delta is below my noise floor which is my textured flex plate.
What orientation did you print the shuttle in? Printing it flat with supports makes the section contacting the mgn12 really rough.
Yes, printing flat with supports and yes need significant cleanup.
It's a catch 22 - once you have 2 heads, can print with PETG or soluble supports.
Do you need to tap the bed with each tool head prior to starting a print so that it can measure the height of each nozzle?
No, currently the offsets are measured once and fixed in config. Only tool 0 is tapped on start.
Taping each tool is def a way to automate some of the calibration.
github.com/viesturz/NozzleAlign does a good job so I have not had a need for it really.
Are you using the toolchanger plugin for klipper or is everything macro based? Im also currently designing a toolchanger, but im not sure if i want a purely macro based firmware or use the plugin
I use TypQxQ's plugin. See github.com/viesturz/tapchanger for my config.
It's a bit macro heavy for my liking, but IMO the best there currently is for Klipper.
Either the plugin or macro works. I think the main advantage of the plugin is proper readable config sections for each tool, the rest is a big sea of macros anyway.
Have you considered having the tool cradle on its own moving gantry to prevent the long Z moves?
Not really, I'm upgrading to 48v Z that should half the time.
I don't think it's a problem in real prints, just for those small test samples.
Hmm, thoughts on trident? I figure dock rialto would move up and down
@@C650101 I would probably go with a servo based changer for trident.
Tapchanger is really meant for flying gantry. You can probably make something work for a fixed gantry, but there are simpler ways to do that.
Was thinking about this as well. However, then there must be either a x-travel to lock or additional locking mechanism. The elegance of this solution is using a z-move for locking. Amazing work
surely it would be better if the hotends was on the xy axis gantry to completely eliminate the constant z movements.
There are other projects that do that, like WP-Daksh
how does tool change work with bed mesh? does it mesh with each tool used for that print?
The same mesh can be used across all tools.
So nothing special for bed mesh, it just works.
Looks great!
The only thing I hate (and its not just yours, its just the way it works.) is that it goes over the part first, then to the purge block. I wish it just went straight to the block.
The thing at the front is a purge line. The block at the back is a multi-color test cube.
@Niai we know but it comes down over the printed cube then jumps to the side to purge
@@niaimack yeah, the behavior needs to change in the software. It should go to the purge "line" and then go to the part, not the other way around.
Yeah, Prusa slicer is super buggy for multi extruder. They seem to be really stuggling. There are hundreds of bugs in the repo without much progress.
2.6 beta still horrible.
IMO that's the main reason multi hotend XL is so late.
@@viesturz orca slicer?
Is there a way to support you somehow? You’re doing an awesome job man!!
My idea of support for this project is to help design parts for this project which is exactly what I’m doing.
You don’t need to be super smart to 3D Model at all because it is just slightly more advanced version of drawing. A lot of the process is taking measurements and constraining those dimensions. If you don’t try you’ll never learn so I recommend trying it out on a simple project or tutorial project from the many online tutorials for programs like fusion 360.
Thanks, Much appreciated!
Testing help is probably the best support right now.
Also documentation, etc.
I'm really focused on the core mount piece, the rest is just a quick hack job.
If you have some cad skillz, improvements to the dock and cable harness would be appreciated.
Probably way too early, but a proper voron+ toolchangers discord would be nice. Currently mainly hanging out in Discord India/Daksh.
it would be more efficient if the toolholder followed the z axis for shorter toolchange
How do I propose a quick efficiency improvement?
GitHub bug is probably the simplest way.
A lot of Z-direction movement makes the printer slow and wears it out. The Voron Trident would be the right one for this...
Of course if you already have a 2.4 -then this is the solution.
Nice job anyway!
Anyway, it's still faster than an MMU...
It can go a lot faster: czcams.com/video/S-om0MPE5qI/video.html
The toolhead of the trident does not gò up and down in Z like the 2.4. Therefor it can not hook and unhook these toolheads onto their cradles. With a Trident you should look for a docking procedure which only need XY movements, like the Prusa XL.
This makes that you need more width for each toolhead cradle..
A solution to still use Tapchanger lite on a Trident is making use of a cradle bar that moves up and down. That's a lot of extra work. And if you decide on that, such a toolbar could speed up tool changes for a 2.4 also 😉
Will this ever be mass produced?
Or at least sold?
Because you wouldn't expect any regular person to have all the parts for this printer
Do you mean the tool changing part or the entire printer?
The printer is just voron 2.4 - unlikely to be mass produced, but there are plenty of DIY kits available.
The toolchange adapter - who knows. Right now it's aimed to be reasonably easy 3d printable and assembled using off the shelf parts and a metal hacksaw.
@@viesturz I meant the toolchange adapter.