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BOLTR: Rexroth Hydraulic Valve | How it's built and Troubleshooting
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- čas přidán 15. 02. 2018
- I'll show you how a basic valve is a logic element, same as in electronics. Open center valve is for gear pumps (fixed displacement). Closed center valve is for piston pumps (variable displacement). 4/2 means four way (4 oil connections) and 2 positions. I'll also go over some basic troubleshooting in general terms and some do's and do-not-do's.
This is worth $2 a month. I look forward to these more than shows on TV.
My wife doesn't understand why I'd pay someone to make youtube videos. But i get fuckin giddy when Patreon tells me theres a new vidjeo, and theres something about being in a select group to see them early.
I used to have a good system set up. Make cool shit, put it on the internet. Use the adsense money to fund other channel's patreon pages. Everyone wins. Last year's algorithm change fucked up the discovery of new content so bad that what was holding steady for 6 years suddenly dropped to 1/3 of what it was. What am I supposed to do about that? Make more content? Ugh.
You're not the only one.
Adam Grant Who wouldn't? Every once in awhile (usually when I'm visiting my mother), I get a chance to check out what's on TV these days. Let me be one to tell you that's it's complete gaaabage! I don't get why anyone would pay for that crap in this day and age. My wife and I got rid of cable 8-10 years ago and I can't tell you of a single time that I've missed it.
I stopped watching TV. Better stuff here.
Love your video's AvE, not just for the information, but how you present it in a way that is understandable, enjoyable and absorb-able !!! My old brain cells do not move the pixies around as good as they used to sometimes. Have a great day!
AvE, all jokes aside, you're a really good teacher. I enjoy my time in your shop and appreciate the tribal knowledge you're willing to share with us. Thanks man. 👍
Always entertaining and informing. As a dude that works in a large scale manufacturing environment this kind of stuff is just freakin' sweet and it's what keeps me coming back. Thanks for making it easier to understand all these industrial lego pieces.
The rings that you referred to are called Radial Pressure Balance Rings and their primary purpose is to hold the spool centered in the bore. The land would ( in conjunction with the sealing oil ) not allow excessive leakage across it even if the rings weren't there, but there would be a danger of the spool being pushed against the wall of the bore under certain circumstances resulting in a gawd that would make the valve leak excessively or lock up. I was taught at the Vickers Hydraulic School that the rings were not for sealing although many techs think they are.
Did you ever teach a hydraulic class at a Corning Glass Plant in State College PA?
Would that also be considered a labyrinth seal or is that only on rotating assemblies?
You are right, the Radial Pressure Balance Rings are not for sealing as leakage flow past the Balance Rings is higher than that for a raw ungrooved spool, but the Balance Rings relieve/balance the unbalanced pressures around a spool while being used to prevent the spool from being pushed by those unbalanced hydraulic flows against the walls of the spool's bore, decreasing friction and wear.
Best $2.00 / month ever I feel like I be paying more. You remind me of my dad who was a field service engineer for a large tempering furnace manufacturer, traveled the world in the eighties. He taught so much stuff just like you do. I appreciate all your vids and awesome sense of humor. Thanks for taking your time an giving us some laughs and solid knowledge.
I always love the tagged parts that says “ are you feeling lucky”.
Great real-world explanation. I've been around hydraulics quite a while and you narrowed down 20 years of experience into a 10 minute video. Great work!
AvE to narrate the next Vickers handbook!
As a millwright apprentice, I LOVE these vids. More please! I love seeing relevant stuff to the trades on here! Especially troubleshooting stuff!
As a lectronical kinda guy I can appreciate all of this hugely. Find the hot component, sure. But also read your schematics. Know the circuit. Sometimes it's even hot by design.
Measure. Then cut.
"Measure once, cut twice, and the fergin' thing's STILL too short" - AvE
I spent $6,000 for one semester of heavy equipment college.... a few months of lectures, slideshows, and hands on work... I tried studying, researching, and seeking out others advice. AND SOMEHOW I have learned more from and become more familiar with the hydraulic systems that I am so enthralled with from these 10-20 minute vijeos than 3 different professors could hope to cram into my brain hole.
Thank you so much for how detailed this video was. I've been doing maintenance for maybe 20 years now residential and industrial. And not being officially schooled I found this amount of detail to be incredibly helpful. I watch all your videos. Thank you for what you do.
The phone charger/pencil made another appearance, nice to see it still hanging around the shop.
No one told me there was going to be school. Had I known, I'd've been sober.
Plays WithKnives You sure about that? :)
Drunk skool is the best skool
I too struggled.
Plays WithKnives What’s a sober?
Plays WithKnives you speak as if you've been sober before
Loved this video! I’m a heavy equipment operator, and quite often I have to TRY to give the mechanic an idea of what got dickered. Saves time and trips to the parts store if he has a good idea of what to bring. You are an excellent teacher, my friend, and now I have more “tools” to help get the right parts on the way.
Thank you!
2-position, 4-way valuves; hawt oil; pumping; open centres screaming with relief, stacking applications...! The closest thing to pron without pron! Best educational and fun vijeo stream. Keep it up Prof AvE.
I salute you AvE, you have produced a good community on the web. I actually enjoyed reading every single comment under this video. I enjoyed that nearly as much as the excellent video itself.
In my 20s, some odd 20 yrs ago I got to operate some good sized equipment then learned how to fix it after too many hot supers. Really cool to be brought back to simpler times. Thankyou for the education AVE
Speaking of gear pumps. At work we had a garbage truck that was exploding PTO shafts and $5000 gear pumps every time a new guy drove the truck. Turns out the guys were dead heading the truck with the speed up on. Took a few break downs and about $7000 in pumps and shafts to figure out the relief valves were way out of adjustment. And the only reason I thought of it were your stupid videos, so thanks
Egbert Wadman HIs story sounds fine, problem must be on your end.
Come home from long day at work, the last thing i wanna hear is hydraulics and garbage trucks. Ooh new AvE video then guess what i see. thanks.
Egbert Wadman I’m no professional mechanic my guy. But I install old junk parts on old 10 year old+ garbage trucks if a warn ass pto shaft explodes you assume it’s because lack of grease. then when the pump housing cracked I figured out what the real issue was. But I’m sure your tech manual would have told you the proper process for installing used junk on used junk.
Egbert Wadman you sound like a dill weed, so I’ll put it into a language you understand. Since I assume the most problem solving you you is changing battery’s in your TVs remote control. Let’s say you pick up your channel chicher to flip on today’s re-run of M.A.S.H but nothing happened. So you will go do what i would and change the battery’s correct?
Thanks for the hyro-circuitry lesson. Not sure if I'll be in a situation where I'll use it, nevertheless it's added to the tool belt. Much appreciated.
gerbizzlefoshizzle Car brakes poorly represent the majority of hydraulic circuits. It's a one way system, shuttling fluid small distances. There is no real "pump", your just using your foot (and engine vacuum) to pressurize the fluid in the line...
Rexroth and Parker Hannifan hydraulic valves. Things of beauty. Keep 'em clean, work long time. Even cooler when stacked. Work great on flight simulators. Last part about removed valves, very important! If everything was working on the machine when you took the valve off, say to test another valve, then ok to mark as good in my experience. Otherwise, it needs some type of caveat. Unknown, maybe good?, etc. Getting a bad valve off the shelf really screws the troubleshooting. You now may have two problems in the system or have convinced yourself the original valve was not the problem. Store carefully, also. Capped, clean, in a plastic bag maybe, sit them on wood shelf, don't drop on metal or concrete. They are expensive.
These hydraulic vijoes are great.
it is a VJO, just for your edifuction. :)
AVE I know alot of the stuff you explain but I watch because I seriously love the way you talk and explain stuff. You sir have the gift of gab.
That is the best analogy for explaining a load sensing pressure compensated piston pump vs a gear pump. Big fan of the hydraulic videos.
I bought one of those FLIRs after seeing your first video on it, and I love it. It's come in super handy for all sorts of stuff, like identifying a misfire on my car, and verifying the thermostat was working (try testing a thermostat the old fashioned way, drain the cooling system, pull it out, boil it on the stove, see if it opens, where with this you just watch the radiator side of the thermostat start to warm up after the other side hits the right temperature). There are so many applications and it's so much quicker and easier than the traditional methods.
Ahhh Rexroth, I began my career with them right out of college. They are the best by a long shot. Great people as well.
These are the videos we need. It's like you flexing your brain muscles. Shows us how much you know about this crap. Bravo.
Pressure-mechanical computers are only half the reason why I love Mr. Chris so much
I still can't figure out what you did/do for work, but I'm glad you did it. Thank you for doing this. You are a world treasure.
Much of my working life, has been spent as an Avionics Engineer. This video shows why I remain in awe - of those guys stuffed into the corner, who handle the "fluid mechanics" side of the equation.
I could watch your videos all day. So full of knowledge, tips and downright good practice. Bravo my friend to the North.
I've had so many issues with rexroth CAN 4x3 on hydraulic pitch wind turbines. This was a great intro to valves!
That D-C 111 stuff is magical. Used that for more valve renovations than I care to remember.
I'm reminded of what my professor Buzzy said when diagnosing a problem. Did it die of natural causes or was it murdered. Maintenance guy's words to live by.
Big thanks to you and the prof. That's become my new first thought when approaching non chooching things.
And a FLIR...
Negligent homicide, usually.
At least with most hydraulic problems I see.
Any time.glad I can help
I think I may be a serial killer… and I don’t no why
Love the power of Hydraulics......From an old Vickers trained technician
Crazy how much EE knowledge seems to be applicable to mechanics. The other day the MEs were showing me about modeling heat transfer as a resistive network and now here's hot oil as logic gates. Wild.
Your videos are a good refresher for me. You are very entertaining, and not boring. You have even managed to teach me a couple of new tricks (I have over 45 years experience working with various equipment/engines). Keep up the good work.
🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸⚓️⚓️⚓️⚓️🛠🛠
the comments in your videos are just delightful
I just bought a 1973 paper cutter that operates on hydraulics. IDK jack about hydraulics save from what I’m learning on YooToobe. It’s a lot more than I knew before. Thanks for the explanation. I’m going to clean the tank out in a couple days and release the schmoo, add new schmoo and start cutting.
Thanks again. You're a great teacher. There's a "Dilbert" video where we see Dilbert as a kid and mom finding out that he has "The Knack"
You seem to describe it throughout most of your videos but at around 16:00 minutes into this you really lay it out.
I guess there may be some real connections between mechanical and logical thinking but then there can also be some circular flow to it all. It's kind of like when you first "get" algebra and beyond.
Also, a smoke, a bong and a blintz is a pretty interesting idea. Sometimes just step back and it comes to you.
Thank you for your time! I would love to see more of these hydraulic troubleshooting videos. Your videos have made helped me and my company out of a jam many times!
Thanks for your time and sharing your knowledge. I'm a boiler operator and see a lot of shotgun troubleshooting.
Love it. Absolutely brilliant. And the humour is great too. Thanks for adding laughter to my day, AvE.
That explained this portion of hydraulics better than a half day of training at my work
Thank you for saying "Clearance" (the proper term) instead of "tolerance." Yes, I know people just say "tolerance" and everyone knows they mean "clearance" but it's good to hear the correct word.
Ingesting the schematic one bite size chunk at a time. Thank you teacher. Brain wrapping moving slowly but it damn sure be gettin there
Another video of sweet education. Before this I did not know what I did not know. NOW I know what I don't know. Love it!!
Great descriptions and good to hear thorough diagnostic processes explained for viewers.
A very good explanation of hydraulic valves.
OMG...I love your videos...I thinks its the way you talk....and the information is great....thanks.
David Stanton love shop talk!
What a video!!!! fantastic!! thank you man! World needs more people like you!
Awesome job on a basic explanation for a hydraulic valve! 👍👍
Very helpfull video. 👍 @14:58 I bought a FLIR and now can start troubleshooting the problem in the kitchen.
After some testing i found the problem, it is the oven. It's is the hottest part in the kitchen, so that must be the problem.
Again, thanks for the tip! 👍
Hahahaha. The man loves his hydraulics. Every time he does a video on it, you can almost here him salivate. Before watching these videos I really didn't know much about Hydraulics, and I still don't. But it sure is interesting haha.
"The man loves his hydraulics". You gotta piss with what you have.
I think he's just inebriated
Not gonna lie, I basically had no clue what this video was about but I love you buddy, fight the power!
A few points. Pilot operated valves are usually for handling larger flows. The valve you have shown was probably used for auto reversing..just connect the work ports to the opposite pilot, you would get an auto reciprocating cylinder. The spools are hard chrome plated and then ground. The valve body are usually bored and then honed. Clearance between bore and spool is usually 6-8 microns with these kind of valves. Finally, this valve is a size NG10 or CETOP 5.
Here's a helpful tip on your camera not focusing that hopefully helps. Go into settings and under metering change it to spot metering or center metering. Basically what I think your camera is doing is taking the entire field of view and determining focus off of that. Since your table is the most consistent thing the Cabrera generally doesn't want to shift focus. If you set it to spot metering then it will focus to whatever is in the center of the shot or another position that you specify. It should help. I learned this as an evidence recovery team leader for a federal prison.
I work on a push boat on the river and the boat i usually ride is all electronic engines, throttles and steering. The gear boxes and steering both have gear style oil pumps on them and are electronically actuated with manual override. I know you can screw the steering and it will go back to the position the sticks are at, but don't believe you can over ride the gearbox with the servo in use. I see that schematic every time I look at the valves though ours are set in neutral to tank. Thank you for explaining that so I can go to my captain in two weeks and explain to him what that means.
If I only had a shop teacher like this in school!
One of my first jobs in a machine shop was being a button pusher at a place that made hydraulic spools and sleeves for a company called Ross Controls. They were made of 440C steel then hardened, ground, and honed to size. There was only a couple tenths clearance between the spool and the sleeve. We made so many thousands of the things while I was there...all different sizes.
Pilot operated valves are also good for explosive or wet environments, where electricity is a bad idea.
electrawcity
I'm a mechanic at a blast furnace and all of our valves are electrically controlled. Kinda tricky to run a few thousand feet of pilot line vs wires.
Pilot is also excellent if you are dealing with big valves, along the lines of 48" secondary cooling water lines for a steam turbine, good luck finding an electric solenoid that will directly close that. Throw a little 24v solenoid operating a pneumatic line on the PLC output and an actuator on big valve.
crazyguy32100
Yup. Solenoid to pilot to big valve.
Also good as a hydraulic safety switch, getting pressure out of accu and system independant of electricity
I used to work maintenance at a die casting factory. We used a LOT of the solenoid operated version of these valves. Not Rexroth tho. We were constantly rebuilding those things because of hydraulic leaks due to o-ring failure. We didn’t run hydraulic oil in our machines however due to flammability issues. Instead we used a glycol based fluid. One of our biggest problems was all the aluminum shmoo that was literally everywhere. And don’t get me started on using ladder logic to troubleshoot the ancient PLCs that we had in those old machines! Of course nine times out of ten it would turn out to be just a fucked up limit switch and not a problem with the PLC at all, but when it wasn’t..........
AvE you are something else. Just found your channel and subbed at once. I think of Bob and Doug MacKenzie and the Red Green Show (big fan of both) and I find your stuff laugh out out loud funny. But I find your stuff really interesting and informative. I'd say you are a Mechanical engineer, an Electrical engineer with a very good knowledge of maths and a cubic butt load of experience. WOW. Greetings from Hockey Town! Thanks!
Great video. Having gone through a few hydraulic head scratchers myself, I'd say every word of this is the truth.
I’ve had to learn hydraulics the hard way too. Troubleshooting open center load compensated system with priority can be challenging. Spot on with the IR heat detection too.
common sense and proper process. glad to see the two still survive.
When I did my PLC training, my teacher was a hydraulic engineer! His transition was easy! The Logics are so similar
I love it when I walk into my workshop and there's a red tagged item on the bench and the red tag just says "FUCKED".
This is the more serious and informative side of your channel I prefer, just my own preference, though... ;)
After this lesson I feel competent enough to come over to fix your hydraulic Bartending Robot when it breaks down.
Back when the 737 was new it had problems with the rudder control servo. Thermo shock of hot hydraulic fluid entering a cold valve messed with the tolerances. It gave them fits tracking dawn the cause and there were several crashes before they finally found the culprit.
AvE true to Canukystan! Thanks for the servo Defineration. Awhile back i asked about Explaining the makeup of components Like diodes and such For how they work. Stuff like this Is awesome. You earned my P buck this month. Keep the knowledge bits comin.
Awesome video!
I've been working on truckmounted hydraulic equipment (cranes, loaders, loadshifters etc. )for a few years now so nothing new on my part but still, refreshing is newer wrong.
When i was new to the biz trouble shooting was a royal headache with a lot of "Huh?! It's not supposed to to that, how does it do that?!" stuff going the wrong direction, wrong stuff moving and all that. But as you say, it's actually just like pixies.
Just look grab a coffee, find the schematic and follow the flow until you find where the flow goes the wrong way. Allthough on cranes, leakage was 98% of the repairwork, especially internal leakage on extension arm cylinders. Because there you could have one cylinder moving because one of the others was leaking (They are mostly parallel connected).
If only AvE was one of my high school teachers I might have given a shit. Thanks! Keep em coming!!!
Better living through hydraulics. A 4 way with 3 chicks, me and hot oil don't sound bad either.
Hot oil? If any of those chicks are Chinese, you don't want the hot oil.
That's a different thing over there.
Godfrey Poon I don't know about there, the Chinese chicks at the massage parlor do a damn good job with some hot oil.
+Tim Hunter Chinese hot oil is oil with chilli seeds etc in it, you put it on your food lol. I don't think that would make for a very good massage oil, but each to his own.
Another great deal of information for the techs, what drives me nuts is guys that take something that doesn't work apart, stare at, don't do anything, put it back together and wonder why it still doesn't work, Fn' nuts.
Hydraulic logic components are so cool!!! I feel like it helps me understand computers too
1!1 I love how informational all of your videos are! Keep up the good work!
Great video Ave! Like your common sense approach explaining stuff, have learned a great deal from you! Happy Trails, Doug
"...you're doing the next guy a disservice, and chances are YOU'RE the next guy." words to live by, applies to so many things.
> sees hydraulics
> "likes" vijeo
> proceeds to watch uncle bumblefuck bumblefuckin' with hydraulics
When it comes to four ways, there's only one thing I ask. Keep it clean!
Nobody likes surprise schmoo on, or in their chooching parts.
I was taught they were pressure binding grooves, to prevent a pressure imbalance in the valve from cocking the spool over to the side and locking it right up. This was by an IFPS trainer, so assign what validity you want to it.
Teflon tape is the biggest killer of pilot operated valves, I like to use white lithium grease in a spray can to put valves back together
James Walters - excellent point, we all remember our plumbing days and wrap that shit on every connector
I generally just use the hydraulic fluid itself, from a fresh can, and wipe the parts down with it and then generous amounts of it during assembly. Sticky and messy, but you can be sure that there will be no other contaminating oils in there afterwards. Very important in aircraft, where the hydraulic oil serves as both motive force for controls and also as a very much needed lubricant and cooling for the main bearings in the turbine, and contamination there is going to be a very expensive and possibly life threatening thing. That is why there is the requirement for oil analysis of the hydraulic system every few hours, done with the system hot, so the oil is fully circulated and all controls have been cycled x number of times to bring all contaminants back to the tank.
As well with any hydraulic system lifetime is solely going to be influenced on 2 things, temperature and contaminants. Temperature as the oils degrade with heat and are then prone to foaming as they break down, and contaminants as parts wear or caps are left open and dirt gets in. In line filters are best, bypass filters just do nothing other than tell you you have a problem, as by the time they get any contaminant it has already damaged parts.
Thanks! I learned a bit about open center valves.
Excellent video. Maybe those "Part Changers" will learn a thing or two from this.
I have a video from old job blowing a gear pumps guts out, I’ll make sure to look for it when in sober.
Rafael Sherman sober yet? I’d love to see the vid tbh
Did you sober up yet? Hehe
You did WHAT to a gear pump?!
The0Pi yeah, I had to read that 3 times to get it straight myself. Fatigue, and lysdexia factors can create serious misunderstandings if one is not careful.
Legend has it, he's still sleeping that one off.
Caution, contains the best piece of life advice. You know what I'm saying
Ha! This guy's been around the neighborhood for awhile. Good stuff.
Love, School Tech. Keep This Type Of Videos Never Stop Learning thank you
I only understand about 10% of what you say but it’s entertaining as fuck to watch.
A year ago i was working on a 3D-print extruder for clay. I experienced that silicone lubricants have less static friction than petroleum jelly. Also i remember reading somewhere that petroleum based lubricants cause swelling. I guess thats an advantage in huu-drolyc systems, not so when you try to seal to moving parts :) (when using motors with poor torque that is).
Excellent monologue, and 100% agree with everything you said. Intermitent fault troubleshooting is the worse... but just "FOCUS you fack" on the small details and you will getter done
Love the candor of the narritive, especially the correct usages of the word "fuck"!!!
For anyone wondering what he means by the swash plate of an axial piston pump, there's a great animation at en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axial_piston_pump - the red plate is the swash plate, and if it goes horizontal, the pistons don't move any oil anymore.
And/or "straight from the horse's mouth", as it were - czcams.com/video/0IjrU5bUbUc/video.html
I had to troubleshoot a week or two ago this guy's little brother to fix a emergency pop up barrier that would only go up regardless of which button the user pushed on the remote. I had no idea what I was doing and sorted it out and after watching your video I still have no idea what I was doing and am still 100% sure I could fix it again no problem.
The grooves on the lands are called balancing grooves. The ports on the top (NG6 pattern) are there because they are using the same casting they use for internally piloted valve.
These are what I control with the Click PLC. Massive machine, 60'x100'. There is a small solenoid valve that sends the flow to a really big valve (2 of them), for moving a 10" diameter cylinder about 10' in throw. Big stuff.
I wonder if the diagram on the top plate is showing the correct direction but was put on wrong and that is why it wasn't working, if in fact it wasn't? Because it would change what ports are connected under the top plate. Turn it 180 so the diagram is showing the spring on the same side it actually is on. Just curious.