Intro to EAA. How a 4" EAA equipped telescope can easily outperform a 16"+ visual scope!!!
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- čas přidán 6. 09. 2024
- EAA stands for electronically assisted astronomy! This is a revolutionary technique that lets you "see" much more out of a small scope compared to the traditional view through an eyepiece in full color for a lot of deep sky objects!!!
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Just started EAA with a goto 6 inch dob and im loving it! Its not for people looking for perfect images of space objects but rather well for us that want to see DSO live and take a few snapshots that in my opinion are still quite good!
Yup!
More people should be trying this technique especially with long exposures. This is an excellent video. Nice presentation. EAA is especially useful for long focal lengths. People in my club got caught up in thinking imaging was all about long exposures and expensive rigs. I blame myself. I’ll gladly share this video with them. That’s a whole lot easier than explaining the process. Thanks for your contribution and time. Clear skies.
Glad you liked it!!! That's my motivation for these videos, is sharing the info that I know. A lot of times there is not enough time to really tell every potentially interested person of a spacific Astro topic, but sharing a video takes not time!
Just came across this after building a hybrid rig for my daughter. It's a main scope for visual, with a much smaller scope/lens for EAA attached. Even made sure that the EAA scope matches the FOV of her +70 degree EP on the visual scope. It's resulted in a lot of her going back a forth between the visual and the EAA to point out what she could and couldn't see. 😁
Very cool, I'm sure she will have a lot of fun with it!
An excellent intro to EAA, thank you. Looks like EAA is fast becoming a thing! Doug over at Emerald Hills Skies YT Channel is an inspiring advocate, and he has done quite a few uploads of his live EAA sessions using his Celestron RASA f/2.2 scope. It's incredible to see what he gets in a mere handful of seconds of imaging with his ZWO ASI2600MC cam. He also runs a Reddit channel called EAA Astronomy. Best wishes.
Very cool, yeah the RASA is killer for larger obkect EAA since it's so fast👍
Amazing! I'm convinced, EAA is the way for me to go.
Nice setup! I'm a big fan of EAA!
Hey, thanks!
Excellent video and a very good job of showing how to get started on EAA. Thank you!
Glad it was helpful!
Nice video! I do EAA with my Celestron 6SE on a humble AltAz mount. SharpCap does just fine with canceling out the field rotation!
Mike, yes the 6se/8se are awesome scopes for EAA. Very portable yet still have a lot of light grasp! Next time I have one on hand I think I will make another EAA video that kind of goes a bit more into how to do EAA with SharpCap.
That's great to hear. What camera or other equipment are you using? I have an Evo 6 and am planning to give EAA a spin.
@@mattestabrook I use a Sony A7C and dump the photos to a folder that SharpCap monitors. Does pretty nicely.
Amazing! This is neat. Is it possible to visually find an object, hopping about, take a peek at (say) the grey cloud then remove the EP and insert a camera for this EAA detail? Then replace EP, rinse and repeat? But, then thinking a bit more, how do you refocus the camera every time? Is this a silly idea?
Glad you liked the demo of EAA! What you describe is in theory possible with a tracking mount but would be tedious to do because as you correctly said because of the refocusing and likely recentering of the object. The better way to do this is with a flip mirror. I demonstrate this concept in this video: czcams.com/video/bSnIgYjo7AA/video.html
Thanks! Good intro to the power of EAA.
Glad you liked it, thanks for the feedback👍
Excellent video. I have just ordered an ASIAir Plus for exactly this reason.
Very cool, congrats! Im sure you will love it👍
I am not really doing EAA but a hybrid of very short subs at Unity Gain for the camera, High Conversion Gain and lots of subs total integration time about 1.5 hrs.
Why don't you use SHarpcap Pro 4 for live stacking?
Hi, I do. It's awesome! Check out my other video on EAA: czcams.com/video/bSnIgYjo7AA/video.html
Informative video!! Thanks! A couple of nuances, phones could be fixed in place to provide stable/focused video; the reflection of lights on screen is making the image difficult to see.
I would agree that my videography stills need a lot of work. It's actually my goal to up my game in that department this winter👍 I do appreciate the honest constructive feedback!
Yep i have the 4" scope and just got the astro cams and asiair, and this is exactly my thinking, i don't want to lift or store a big 16" scope.
👍
I use a 8" sct on a AZ Pro mount with revolution imager. Despite being at the bottom end of video equipment I find the lack of laptop liberating alongside the extra magnitude it brings. Cheap and cheerful.
Sounds like a great setup!
do you have any images to share of the results from revolution imager?
Thanks!
Thanks for the support! I appreciate it!!!
Great info on EAA thank you. But you gotta shut off your LED lights on your deck. Ruined the visuals to a large extent. I’m sure you’ve already done this lol. Thanks again 😉
Yeah your totally right I should have had it off. Just did not figure the reflection off the screen would be so bad on camera. 👍
No problem lol, you did a great job. Just kidding with you and busting chops. I ‘m a beginner and your info was great. Keep up the good work 😉
Thanks, but really I do apreciate the honest constructive feedback!
What i do is let sharpcap live stack, so not saving any frames to pc. And play around with histogram stretching, etc. If I like what I see, go save and saves it as a single stacked png image
I do that sometimes as well. However for some objects like planets, I find it best to capture a SER video using SharpCap. Then align in PPIP, export it as an AVI, stack in AutoStakkert 3 and process in Registax. Many steps but it only takes about 20 minutes.
I soon started on the EAA path after being a bit disappointed with visual results. My Celestron Evo 8 EdgeHD is a great EAA scope when coupled with a decent camera. I found planetary very simple using a low cost camera but for deep space I have moved to the ASI294MC. It provides a wider field of view than say the 224MC and just using 10 to 30 second subs, it works quite well.
Yup pretty much how I started and progressed. Its amazing how great of results we can get these days!
@@AVTAstro Right! I’ve got done expensive eyepieces that I’ll be selling soon!
how do you find the asi294mc do you think justified spend have exact same scope and deliberating just because of the price same as you spent a lot on eyepieces etc what are your laptop specs?
@@spaceandsky1829 I bought my ASI294MC used on Cloudy Nights forum classifieds. I really like this camera. I bought the uncooled version and it’s fine for what I do. It’s a great match for the scope in my opinion and gives enough field of view for most objects.
I do some videos of stars with my camera or I do short exposures of Andromeda because I do not have a tracking mount.🤣 My son would buy me a VX if I asked him to, but I can't bring myself to ask. My problem is I'm a Luddite and only have a flip phone. No Wi-Fi either, my pc is hard wired directly into the modem into the cable. I hate Windows 10 too.
I use Sharpcap as it does it automatically and dont need to save any frames
Yup Sharp an and ASI Air Pro both do the stacking automatic. You can save individual frames in either if you wish to re- stack later👍
@@AVTAstro if you save frames, and restock then it's no longer EAA, but astrophotography
@@denodan Astrophotography is electronically assisted astronomy also. You just keep all the frames for later processing.
True, but EAA, your adjusting and viewing in near real time and don't need as long exposures, you dont need to worry about flats, darks, eq mounts as your basically viewing the object, so don't need to be anywhere as precious. I can view 3 or 4 or more in an hour and be back inside, astrophotography is a lot more work. I do agree if you save an image it becomes astrophotography.
The beauty of EAA, can stack frames in real time, and yes could add darks and flats. Sharpcap stacks frames live, so no need to save individual frames, saving on memory.
If I let sharpcap stack frames live, and like what I see I can just save it as a png file and save as one stacked image what the screen sees.
So yes kind of the same, but not quite as EAA, your not really saving your work, but viewing it, but have the option to take a snapshot as one stacked image, but generally EAA your viewing the image and some still use modified security videocams, in this case no pc is needed.
What is the f/number on telescope you are using?
Curious how f/10 reduced to f/6 would work on Celestron Nexstar 6SE (six inch).
That was a f5 Takahashi FSQ-106. This setup would work great on the 6SE af f/6.3! Mater of fact I'm currently working on a video on just this setup!
I am trying to run my telescope camera from inside my house for EAA. I have connected my telescope camera to my PC using a Conable USB 3.0 Active Extension Cable with a signal booster.
When using my SvBony 705c (asi585), the PC does not get enough of a signal to function. When using my SvBony 405c (asi294), the PC does get enough signal to function, but the signal is corrupted.
I started with a 50' cable and when that exhibited these symptoms, I bought a shorter 25' cable it failed as badly. I tried on two laptops and the PC and had the same results in every case.
Does anyone use a USB cable to connect their telescope camera to their computer? If so, what brand do you use and what length of cable do you use? Any other ideas?
Thanks.
Have you tried WiFi and Remote Desktop? That's what I usually do.
For beginners I'd recommend small reflectors. Much more light gathering for the money than refractors.
For pure visual that is true especially on a very limited budget.
Very true! So my 18" Eq. Platform Dobs should be equivalent to at least a 36" visual. Using Sensor Analysis on your camera can then tell you which gain and very short stacked exposures to use to beat light pollution.
Great Video!! EAA imaging is What I do!! I have a 6 inch Newton on an Alt az Goto mount! So Can I do Liv Stacking On DSOs with a ZWO ASI 224mc!! Its a Planetary camera, That Is Advertised to work Well for Deeo Sky imaging too!
Thank You, Clear Skies!👍
Yup the 224mc is what I started EAA with! Great camera for the money.
Great video--I'm excited to try out EAA on my Celestron Evo 6. I'd be interested in hearing more about how you set up the ASI AIR Pro and what it enables you to do, etc.
Hey Matt, the Evo 6 will make a very nice EAA platform! I honestly have never used the Air Pro with an Alt-Az go-to mount. In general all you need to do it what I showed in the video. You will align your mount, get a focus, and then you hit the live option and start the stack. That simple! If there is enough interest I can make a more detailed how-to video on doing this.
@@AVTAstro Thanks for your encouragement. I recently placed an order for a ZWO ASI183MC and a Hyperstar lens. I'll let you know how it goes with this set-up. If all goes well, maybe an ASI AIR Pro is in my future too.
Great Video, Vlad !!
Thanks!
What about EAA in high light polluted areas near big citys, does it have any sence?
Yeah I used to do it all the time at my old house. Works very well!
EAA is astrophotography made fun, and cheap
Thats a nice way to put it, I like it👍👍
Do zwo cameras work with win 11? Lots of folks are having difficulties.
Can't help on that one. I have not made the upgrade to Win 11.
Super video, thanks. When you do processing what software do you use for stacking and final post? Clear skies
I use Sharpcap for the stacking and photoshop for processing.
Thank you.
You're welcome!
I've found that any type of astrophotography is not for me. Even EAA. However, I do use night vision which is sort of EAA. It's real time and I can use it on an alt/az mount. The only system I could see trying sometime is the Stellina or something similar. I'm mostly a visual observer, and I like to keep things as simple as possible. However, I think EAA is a good way to go and the images are usually better than NV, but different. Some NV images seem better. NV has a lot of flexibility. Like using it at 1x on the Milky Way in my light polluted backyard. Good to see someone do EAA though and the process.
Yeah astrophotography is not for everyone. As you can probobly see fromy videos I do a bit of it but really more of a visual guy.
What app do you use in your video?
The ASI Air App.
Hi. Could you please recommend a deep sky camera to use with the AirPro but on a budget please? The one you have is just a little out of my range at the moment. Thanks
Hi, yes I would look at the ASI 224mc👍
Is this possible to do, somehow, with a macbook replacing the Asi Air and then sitting indoors with an M1 Mac mini communicating with the macbook? What capture/stacking app could then be used to work with the mac mini? Any ideas?
Hopefully some Mac users will chip in here. I really do not have any ideas on this one as I don't really use Mac.
Does the zwo app not support live stacking? As your saving individual frames, not live stacked frames like sharpcap does it, stacks without saving frames to memory
Well as you can see in the video it is live stacking. Saving each frame is an option just like in SharpCap👍
Thanks. A couple of questions: what software are you running on your phone to perform the live stacking? I presume It is performing auto aligning, right? Do you want think an old Nexstar 114GT with prime focus could work for this in center of image?
The app I was using in the video is ASIAIR. It only works with the ZWO gear though. The 114GT OTA you have is great for EAA as it's fast. If your using the mount that it originally comes with that will be a weak point. It may work, but it may not.
@@AVTAstro Thanks. Using original mount.
Why such a short exposure for the galaxy? Wouldnt you pull in more detail with longer exposures. Without tracking you could still push longer I think
Well the entire point of EAA is near real time viewing. As I mentioned in the video sometimes I'll go up to 30sec but you will be surprised at how little difference it makes by doing a longer exposure vs a bunch of short ones.
You mentioned that the software can remove satellite trails. Does the software have the ability to do the reverse of this? I'm thinking that this could be useful for finding comets and asteroids, if the software can spot small position differences on consecutive nights.
Hi, not any software that I know of can do this. In all honesty I'm no wizz in this department though.
@@AVTAstro I was just thinking that with the time savings of this vs conventional astrophotography, it would be really slick if you could stack 1-2 weeks worth of subs from the same area of the sky and have the software subtract everything that didn't move. Kind of a quick and dirty astronomy version of "Where's Waldo", where you're only looking for change in an image rather than trying to get a pretty photograph.
Would taking a handful of one second frames work out without motorized tracking? (or would stars still come out as streaks?)
Really depends on the focal length of the scope. You might be able to do it with something like a 50mm lens. Generally you do need tracking.
@@AVTAstro, thanks for the reply. Mine is an 8" Dob (Orion XT8). 1200mm focal length. I'm a newbie and just got it a few weeks ago, just before temperatures plummeted here in the Rockies. It came with a 2" 28mm eyepiece I use for deep objects, and I use the 1.25 adapter and plossls/plossl w/Barlow (a set I purchased for a 4.5EQ we got from a friend moving maybe a month earlier) for planetary and Lunar. I don't even have an eyepiece camera yet, and will likely get wider eyepieces first (32 or 38mm wide, and maybe a 2" Barlow). Just doing research as I learn, so thanks for answering.
Amazing
Thanks!👍
I think SC is with Windows 32 and 64 bit only.
I would have loved to have control to turn off the LED strip lights, it was very distracting.
Yup, I'll make sure it's not an issue in future videos.
Great Video. Enjoyed it thoroughly! (a) Is your setup completely wireless meaning, I can control the scope from within the house without extending any wires?; (b) What App you were using from your cell phone to control the scope? (ASI Air Pro?). (c) Are you using any laptop connected to the rig to run Sharp Cap, etc.?
Thanks in advance for your quick response. I have already subscribed to your channel.
Hi, yes its fully wireless in this video. It works over WIFI with the ASI Air app.
@@AVTAstro Thanks.
Oh, and is there any way to do EAA for planets? Alignment is not based on stars then…
As far as I know this is not possible on the planets.
@@AVTAstro Tx. Yeah, I didn't see anything to do this live just yet.
Last year I was using my F10 10in SCT on the planets quite successfully using live view with my DSLR. facebook.com/Paul.T.SC/videos/10164335250485313/
Talk about coincidence!..Here you are talking about your friend (Mark?) with a GoTo Dobsonian!
Bro how u done in mobile
What do you mean? How did I do EAA on a mobile phone? Its with the ASI Air Pro.
@@AVTAstro thanks for the reply man🤗
Informative but that LED light makes the video problematic
I agree, it won't be on in future videos when a screen is involved 👍
I have been interested in EEA since I saw Dakota starry Nights talk about it. He used starlight or infrared. Seems like its like short version of astrophotography. Astrophotography is too expensive and takes too long. This would be perfect instead.
That's exactly why I do EAA. I'm not too into making the best possible looking image as in AP but just seeing more just like doing pure visual with a bigger scope and eyepiece 👍
@@AVTAstro Is there any way of adjusting the magnification? Since you are shooting prime and no eyepieces? Barlows?
You can use a barlow but then you need to use longer exposures. In a way your scope is like the camera lens right. Different subjects need different lenses. That's why some things are framed well with a 4" APO, and others are fred well with a 12" SCT:)
My subs are 5 seconds to 20 seconds max! But there are 180 to 360 of them
Good weather? Hahahaha! And with a jacket on. It was 90* here today. The hottest day of the year. Yeah right. I have acquaintances in Battleground so I know the weather there. I’ve also lived in Tacoma, Spanaway and Moses Lake.🤐
Lol, yeah any time we get the sun out here its a party! I'm sure that half of UFO sightings in the NW are actually people seeing the sun in the sky... LOL.
My phone can't even get to a second of exposure 😂 1/3
Yeah most phones are though for anything besides the moon.
The only problem is this. There is something magical about a person looking into the telescope and eyepiece and seeing an object. A connection almost. This whole world of technology and electronics has removed this connection. People look down way to much. Always looking at their phone and devices. When you see a family at dinner and they are all looking at their phones, this is sad. When you wake up in the morning and look at your phone before saying good morning to the person next to you, this is sad. People, start looking up !! Also, mention how much that 4" telescope cost !!
Hey, love your youtube name! I agree with you and prefer purely visual in a lot of ways(I own over $3k of eyepieces). EAA is just another tool.
If you are not using an eyepiece then it is just astrophotography...
Yeah one can make that case. But some consider it "visual" since it's near live.
Shoud be called NEA. No Effort Astronomy.
Lol
@@AVTAstro Just teasing. Great video... kinda ;)
I wish you would present your videos with a bit more professionalism, that light going across the screen makes seing M51 practically impossible. I watched anorher video of you where you were comparing telescopes but the seing was bad so the video made little sense, anorher video you should redo.
Thanks for the feedback! When I have the time to make 29 takes on every video I'm sure they will be quite professional. Lol.
In all seriusness I'm not a pro and make no claim to be. I just do these on my free time and hopefully share some of my knowledge to help some folks out. If the videos you are not helpful, please don't watch them.