I hope you wake up in the mornings and feel confident and very proud that you are helping develop us musicians' understanding of music and music culture. Thank you!
The weirdest thing is that studying the score of the planets (alongside some other greatly orchestrated pieces of the 20th century) has actually helped me improve my production skills on the rock and electronic music tracks I'm usually working on. Just goes to show how important it is to step out of your comfort zone and take in as much useful information as possible.
@@OrchestrationOnline By the way, I often hear you reference an orchestrator's book but I can never understand how the name is spelled to look it up. Sessel Forzei? I dunno
The planets is what got me into orchestral music! I absolutely love every second of the planets suite, it is in my completely unbiased opinion (citation needed) the most fun you can have listening to music.
Gustav Holst - Planets (Opus 32) 1. Mercury 2. Venus 3. Earth 4. Mars 5. Jupiter 6. Saturn 7. Uranus 8. Neptune I. Earth, II. Mars, III. Venus, IV. Mercury, V. Jupiter, VI. Saturn, VII. Uranus, VIII. Neptune
I've seen quite a bit of a variety when it comes to notating the trombones in the orchestra. I have seen a single trombone staff, each trombone getting it's own staff and a 2 + 1 staff arrangement(often with the Tuba also on the staff with 1 trombone). And that's without taking into consideration the Alto Trombone as a solo. Examples: Individual Trombone staves: czcams.com/video/yKl4T5BnhOA/video.html - Back from when each trombone had it's own clef, Beethoven's Fifth Finale 2 + 1 staff arrangement of Trombones(without Tuba): czcams.com/video/HduSfm8KzF4/video.html - Dvorak New World Symphony 2 + 1 staff arrangement of Trombones(with Tuba): czcams.com/video/6O6Nme3fw5k/video.html - Dvorak 8th Symphony in G major Single Trombone staff: czcams.com/video/6wbkKWrUD-A/video.html - Stravinsky Firebird Suite So, what factors in to how the trombones are notated besides the orchestra size? I'm asking because I'm currently writing a march for an orchestra and as you can probably guess, I'm including a full brass section of 4 horns, 2 trumpets, 3 trombones, and a tuba and I currently have each trombone on it's own staff. And currently, the closest the first and second trombones get is a fourth apart, but more often it's a fifth or even a sixth apart. Meanwhile the Bass Trombone and Tuba are often an octave apart, occasionally at a unison. Should I keep the individual staves or should I merge the trombone staves?
How I see each of the pieces: Mars: Theme song of World War 2. I often ad the sounds of air raid sirens and falling bombs in the background when I listen to it. Played when the German Army Invaded Poland in 1939. Venus: How I fell when a storm ends and the clouds open up to reveal the sun shining and the rain has ceased. Mercury: It awakens the child in me and makes me want to dress as Peter Pan and run around the room pretending to fly Jupiter: At first I imagine myself as a bull rider at a rodeo hanging on to an angry, bucking bull until I hear the second movement which was played at the funeral of Diana, Princess of Wales (RIP) Saturn: I see this piece as an elegy of mystery, suspense, and our fears of the unknown. Almost as if we look into the realm of the paranormal and wonder if someone or something is looking back... Uranus: I describe this as what happens when you take LSD and then go on a romp in the town. Neptune: How I feel when I am lying in bed and slowly drifting off into sleep
You'll want 7 timpani to make this piece work! Additionally (from what I've heard) in the UK orchestral piano and celeste used to be played by a member of the percussion section, so maybe that approach was considered even in Holst's day? Jeez, that's the fastest Mars I've ever heard!
Actually, I've even seen 4 timpani per player on this once or twice. But as far as assuming percussionists played orchestral keyboards, I think that even in Holst's day that would be a case-by-case basis. It's probably more the way the publisher laid out the score rather than an assumption on Holst's part.
You have a huge orchestration lecture ahead of you, my friend. As of today, both Mars and Venus have been full uploaded to CZcams (and most of Mercury is up on Patreon).
I just finished watching the first Mars video with the book in my hands. I was so excited when you announced The Planets series. It's just amazing that someone is willing to share all their knowledge and, trust me, we really appreciate it. Infinite thanks.
Wonderful lesson, really helpful... BTW, Thomas. Will you review the Gurrelieder by Schoenberg plz? it's beautiful!! Most people think of Schoenberg's work as bizzare and unpleasant, this early work of him would change this point of view.
2 things: 1. A few years ago a leading Israeli conductor has made this episode about The Planets for an Israeli classical music TV series (it's with English subs, so no worry about understanding): czcams.com/video/Vq2PuiyRrCc/video.html 2. Thomas, what is your favourite recording? (You have stated in the Rite of Spring that you are kinda divided between the 1963 Boulez and the Gergiev) I don't really know the Planets well enough to judge. I barely even listened to recordings, but I listened almost exclusively to the Karajan Berlin-1981 recording.
Not at all. The two teachers are totally different in what they teach. Forsyth is trying to write an English-language update to Berlioz's Grand Treatise that's aware of Wagner and some other late Romantics. Rimsky-Korsakov is talking about the applied craft of combining instruments, with detailed practical examples. But neither is really an up-to-date book by any means.
@@OrchestrationOnline Great, thanks for clarifying. I had read R-K but not Forsythe, so my ignorance of his intent is probably the source of my misunderstanding.
At the end of your video, it appeared that audio and visual were slightly out of sync to where it didn't appear that you were saying what you truly were. Also the recording of the ensemble, in Mars where its supposed to be Allegro, its certainly in the Presto range, not necessarily a bad thing, just something I noticed and threw me off guard.
@@OrchestrationOnline just so, but I would think a well balanced recording would be beneficial, allowing students to hear what good orchestration sounds like..
@@Teladian2 CZcams is awash with great performances of The Planets, and a truly concerned student who isn't satisfied with the one on this video has the option of also purchasing a great performance at fairly low cost. I am limited in what I can offer here on this channel. Sometimes I have first-rate orchestras supplying me the right to use their recordings. Other times I have to use a CCA-licensed recording as in this case. Please have pity on a poor orchestration teacher who is putting this out there at no cost to the listener, with zero budget, for the purpose of uplifting the craft of as many orchestrators as possible in the limited time I have left on this planet.
I hope you wake up in the mornings and feel confident and very proud that you are helping develop us musicians' understanding of music and music culture. Thank you!
The weirdest thing is that studying the score of the planets (alongside some other greatly orchestrated pieces of the 20th century) has actually helped me improve my production skills on the rock and electronic music tracks I'm usually working on. Just goes to show how important it is to step out of your comfort zone and take in as much useful information as possible.
This whole channel is a treasure trove
Thanks, so glad to hear that you've found it useful!
@@OrchestrationOnline By the way, I often hear you reference an orchestrator's book but I can never understand how the name is spelled to look it up. Sessel Forzei? I dunno
@@maxalaintwo3578 Cecil Forsyth
@@OrchestrationOnline phew thank you
That jazzy-sounding chord at 6:55 is something I never noticed before and I love it so much.
The planets is what got me into orchestral music! I absolutely love every second of the planets suite, it is in my completely unbiased opinion (citation needed) the most fun you can have listening to music.
ITS HERE
Jacob Bass what is?
Pin Dan it
This series of my favorite song from this period.
Jacob Bass _cough_ *piece _cough_
Looking forward to this series!
So sit back, relax, and get ready to have your mind BLOWN!
Brilliant video Thomas! Well done
Yay! Wish I could give 10 thumbs up. Thank you for doing this series.
Gustav Holst - Planets (Opus 32)
1. Mercury
2. Venus
3. Earth
4. Mars
5. Jupiter
6. Saturn
7. Uranus
8. Neptune
I. Earth, II. Mars, III. Venus, IV. Mercury, V. Jupiter, VI. Saturn, VII. Uranus, VIII. Neptune
I've seen quite a bit of a variety when it comes to notating the trombones in the orchestra. I have seen a single trombone staff, each trombone getting it's own staff and a 2 + 1 staff arrangement(often with the Tuba also on the staff with 1 trombone). And that's without taking into consideration the Alto Trombone as a solo. Examples:
Individual Trombone staves:
czcams.com/video/yKl4T5BnhOA/video.html - Back from when each trombone had it's own clef, Beethoven's Fifth Finale
2 + 1 staff arrangement of Trombones(without Tuba):
czcams.com/video/HduSfm8KzF4/video.html - Dvorak New World Symphony
2 + 1 staff arrangement of Trombones(with Tuba):
czcams.com/video/6O6Nme3fw5k/video.html - Dvorak 8th Symphony in G major
Single Trombone staff:
czcams.com/video/6wbkKWrUD-A/video.html - Stravinsky Firebird Suite
So, what factors in to how the trombones are notated besides the orchestra size? I'm asking because I'm currently writing a march for an orchestra and as you can probably guess, I'm including a full brass section of 4 horns, 2 trumpets, 3 trombones, and a tuba and I currently have each trombone on it's own staff. And currently, the closest the first and second trombones get is a fourth apart, but more often it's a fifth or even a sixth apart. Meanwhile the Bass Trombone and Tuba are often an octave apart, occasionally at a unison. Should I keep the individual staves or should I merge the trombone staves?
8:44 I have never heard a person say Uranus that way. 😂
Happy to contribute
Thank you so much! I love those pieces! Can't wait to see them all
Thank you Thomas, have learned so much from watching your videos!
Thank you!!!!
How I see each of the pieces:
Mars: Theme song of World War 2. I often ad the sounds of air raid sirens and falling bombs in the background when I listen to it. Played when the German Army Invaded Poland in 1939.
Venus: How I fell when a storm ends and the clouds open up to reveal the sun shining and the rain has ceased.
Mercury: It awakens the child in me and makes me want to dress as Peter Pan and run around the room pretending to fly
Jupiter: At first I imagine myself as a bull rider at a rodeo hanging on to an angry, bucking bull until I hear the second movement which was played at the funeral of Diana, Princess of Wales (RIP)
Saturn: I see this piece as an elegy of mystery, suspense, and our fears of the unknown. Almost as if we look into the realm of the paranormal and wonder if someone or something is looking back...
Uranus: I describe this as what happens when you take LSD and then go on a romp in the town.
Neptune: How I feel when I am lying in bed and slowly drifting off into sleep
Actually Holst composed “The Planets” between 1914 and 1916.
The piano scores of all seven movements were complete by 1916. The full orchestral score was not completed until 1917.
Ook!
Cool
looking forward to this. do you take requests? Barber's orchestral essays, Respighi Pines. Now, for my trip to Mars.
What do you mean by "three less trumpets and no tubas" at 4:12? Is this a mistake?
It means that in the movement Saturn, the three trumpets and tuba are not used here, like they were in Jupiter.
saturn still uses all 4 trumpets but tenor tuba isn't used
You'll want 7 timpani to make this piece work! Additionally (from what I've heard) in the UK orchestral piano and celeste used to be played by a member of the percussion section, so maybe that approach was considered even in Holst's day?
Jeez, that's the fastest Mars I've ever heard!
Actually, I've even seen 4 timpani per player on this once or twice. But as far as assuming percussionists played orchestral keyboards, I think that even in Holst's day that would be a case-by-case basis. It's probably more the way the publisher laid out the score rather than an assumption on Holst's part.
That Mars is toooooo fast. Its unplayablenin certaon sections at that tempo. Clarinets cant tounge 16th notes at that tempo
THIS IS JUST AWESOOOOOOME!!!!!!!!!
You have a huge orchestration lecture ahead of you, my friend. As of today, both Mars and Venus have been full uploaded to CZcams (and most of Mercury is up on Patreon).
I just finished watching the first Mars video with the book in my hands.
I was so excited when you announced The Planets series.
It's just amazing that someone is willing to share all their knowledge and, trust me, we really appreciate it.
Infinite thanks.
Wonderful lesson, really helpful... BTW, Thomas. Will you review the Gurrelieder by Schoenberg plz? it's beautiful!! Most people think of Schoenberg's work as bizzare and unpleasant, this early work of him would change this point of view.
It's not a bad suggestion. I do have Schoenberg planned for next year. More I can't say at this point.
Cool, looking forward to that!
2 things:
1. A few years ago a leading Israeli conductor has made this episode about The Planets for an Israeli classical music TV series (it's with English subs, so no worry about understanding): czcams.com/video/Vq2PuiyRrCc/video.html
2. Thomas, what is your favourite recording? (You have stated in the Rite of Spring that you are kinda divided between the 1963 Boulez and the Gergiev) I don't really know the Planets well enough to judge. I barely even listened to recordings, but I listened almost exclusively to the Karajan Berlin-1981 recording.
Is Forsythe preferable to Rimsky-Korsakov generally, or simply because of the proximity to Holst in this case?
Not at all. The two teachers are totally different in what they teach. Forsyth is trying to write an English-language update to Berlioz's Grand Treatise that's aware of Wagner and some other late Romantics. Rimsky-Korsakov is talking about the applied craft of combining instruments, with detailed practical examples. But neither is really an up-to-date book by any means.
@@OrchestrationOnline Great, thanks for clarifying. I had read R-K but not Forsythe, so my ignorance of his intent is probably the source of my misunderstanding.
At the end of your video, it appeared that audio and visual were slightly out of sync to where it didn't appear that you were saying what you truly were. Also the recording of the ensemble, in Mars where its supposed to be Allegro, its certainly in the Presto range, not necessarily a bad thing, just something I noticed and threw me off guard.
Maybe refresh your browser? Or give me a time index.
Issue on my end. You are fine, refresh solved the synchronization issue.
Wonderful video Thomas (as always).
A little constructive criticism: your loud voice clashes with the pianissimo music.
The recordings are out of balance and both Mars amd Neptune are too fast.
That's why this is "Orchestration Online" and not "Recording Engineering Online."
@@OrchestrationOnline just so, but I would think a well balanced recording would be beneficial, allowing students to hear what good orchestration sounds like..
@@Teladian2 CZcams is awash with great performances of The Planets, and a truly concerned student who isn't satisfied with the one on this video has the option of also purchasing a great performance at fairly low cost. I am limited in what I can offer here on this channel. Sometimes I have first-rate orchestras supplying me the right to use their recordings. Other times I have to use a CCA-licensed recording as in this case. Please have pity on a poor orchestration teacher who is putting this out there at no cost to the listener, with zero budget, for the purpose of uplifting the craft of as many orchestrators as possible in the limited time I have left on this planet.