Switching From Helix to Fractal? I Have Some Thoughts...
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- čas přidán 15. 05. 2024
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I realised I had been missing this sort of glassy/more scooped type tone, so wanted to try and dial something in!
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Wow...no views? Last time I was this early, my girlfriend broke up with me.
Tried the Fractal stuff and it's great. But my preference was and still is Line 6 Helix. To me it just all works better in a live setting. The sound is fantastic, great community, great workflow, great support from Frank R. , all in all totally love it. I'm sure the Fractal folks have their reasons for Fractal. Can't go wrong these days.
Nailed it. I'm a Fractal guy but you really can't go wrong. Fractal, Helix, Neural, hell...even the Fender one looks pretty good!! Options for DAYS!!!
I've had my Axe-FX II for...like...8 years or something now and there were less options back then. I think it was the best for what I was doing at the time (and still works great! Wouldn't mind picking up an NQC to play with but have never really thought, "I really need to upgrade" or anything) but there are WAY more options these days and they're all amazing!!
I agree 100%. I've owned three fractals but the workflow of the HX is superior. Changing parameters in a live setting on a Fractal is a nightmare. Of course, this is only my experience after owning three of them including the latest FM9.
I watch for the John Cordy STUFF, He is just so GOOD!!!!
I’ve had fractal fm3, hx stomp xl, UAD pedals… just brought a Ampero 2 Stage after seeing John’s review. I’ve never been so happy with a gear… sold everything else. It sounds good, easy and fun to use, convenient… on balance, the best for my use.
I didn’t realize it before, but the FM3 is huge! Compared to the HX Stomp!
I look forward to my daily dose of your playing and insight JNC. Great job as always mate.
In the end, after trawling through all the big name modellers, I bought an FM9 for the feel. The sounds of most modellers are all pretty good and no audience is ever going to call you out for using fractal over helix.
For all that, if I were starting again, the GX100 would probably be my first choice. Simple and sounds great.
I haven't played the fractal stuff (one day hopefully), but my boss gt1000 feels so much better than the others, now when I help friends with patches on their helixes, QC's, and kempers I can feel the difference under the fingers. Good to know that Fractal stuff feels good too.
@@Shaddy89
It’s probably subjective to a large extent. I think mesa boogies generally sound awful, but lots of people love ‘em.
Same with modellers I think.
A friend has a gx100 and it sounds great. I have fm3 and stomp xl and native. Good sounds in all places. Amp modeling on fm3 prob best but it sits there due to wonky ui. Will get back into it.
Here for the legato. I prefer the sound of my FM3, but since I’m usually playing in my living room, away from a computer screen, the HX Stomp gets used 90% of the time because it’s UI is so very superior. It’s almost as easy to use as a stomp box pedalboard and infinitely more flexible.
I spent 3 days with an FM9+ which comes with much better presets but the L6 Floor can equal them with some work. Which is exactly why I prefer L6, they are way easier to work with (for me). The HX Editor is powerful and stupid easy to use as well - and I don’t think Fractal has any plans to support a plug in like HX Native? Like many have said, you can’t go wrong either way.
In the demo comparisons I've heard, in general the Fractal will sound warmer, thicker, and the Helix will sound brighter and clearer, including in this comparison.
I have an HX Stomp, so if I want it to sound like a Fractal, pretty much all I need to do is turn down the Tone Knob on my guitar 3-4 numbers. At that setting, my Stomp sounds virtually identical to a Fractal. YMMV
i had an objection that i was typing up but then i gotta admit that makes it pretty identical...
@@zionlee4594 I think I got the idea from a Leon Todd comparison video I saw. There are times I prefer the Fractal sound. I tried many methods to get it on my HX Stomp, but never got close enough until I rolled down the Treble Knob. I was surprised that such a simple method produced the best results.
@@picksalot1 try doing a high cut on the cab sim, this was more natural feeling to me!! definitely closed the gap between fractal and helix
@@zionlee4594 The Cab High Cut is my "go to" for getting rid of overly bright and harsh highs on Stomp Presets. Rolling down the guitar's Treble Knob has been the most effective method for me to get the Fractal tones I Iike. It's also a great way to get thick singing lead tones, for instance on the "BrownGD" Preset, I turn the Treble Knob way down to about 2 or 3. I've edited the Presets, so YMMV. 😎
Love the fractal tones. Honestly, for me the Helix Native was the feature that made me go Helix. But the fractal sounds really great. But in this day and age, modelers are so good to the point that its the user who will define which is your preference.
I use both Helix and FM3 now. I would say the Helix is more fun but I do enjoy the Amps on Fractal much more. When I play larger theatres and silent stage gigs, I had to switch to FM3 for only one reason. Power supply. I need something that fits in hand luggage with an IEC. I probably would have remained in Helix for the fly gigs if they had an HX type product with an IEC. This is also why I also never bothered with the QC. I used the Helix Floor for years and love it still but flying with it is expensive. But I do love both for different things and continue to use both. My sounds are completely different though. I don’t try to match them at all.
I found the FM3 sounded better, clearer, but didn't like the reverb. I instantly knew you were playing through the FM3 as the reverb sounded soooo bright, and I felt there was much more presence to the tone. I usually like your tones but find you tend to overuse the high cut (to each his own :)). Anything sounds great in your hands anyway!
I've been using my Helix for 6 years now and think about going to Fractal for a change ; I had a gig about a month ago and one of the guitar players was playing through an FM3, and it had this brightness and definition I'm having a hard time matching with my Helix.
Anyways, people don't hear what we hear, we're just splitting hair over silly things us guitar players ahaha
Cheers from France mate, keep up the amazing work!
I come for all of it, JNC.
Obviously the modelers have many practical advantages, but the very best tones I've heard you get, were with the Fender amp and Zen Drive pedal. Just saying . . . . . . . .
When you see a spicy meatball 04:49
I didn't switch necessarily, but I did just get a Fractal FM3. I have the Helix Floor, Helix Native, HX Stomp and HX Effects that I use in a variety of ways, and I think they are all great. You can achieve great tones with each of those units.
I decided to try a Fractal for the first time, mostly out of curiosity and as a massive Metallica fan... I just had to know Lol. Not knowing much about the ecosystem, I took Cooper Carter's MasterClass on the FM3 to be certain I understood all of its capabilities. I'm a couple weeks into owning it now and when compared to the Helix, I don't know if the Fractal models amps better in terms of sound/tone, but it seems to model the "feel" of amps better; at least for high gain stuff so far. It helps that they modeled Hetfield's personal Mark IIC++ Lol. It's a heck of a great starting point.
I'm happy with all of the Helix offerings and I've been using Line 6 stuff since the Flextone II nearly 25 years ago. However, if I had to start all over and had to choose a single modeler, I would likely get the FM3. The variety of amps and effects is incredible and I have found Fractal's scenes + channels system to be a bit more useful/flexible than the Helix's snapshots.
I do wish that "AxeFX Native" was a thing, but based on my experience with the FM3, I would definitely consider making an AxeFX III the hub of my recording setup.
This topic never gets old. I have both HX Stomp and FM3 and switch back and forth because I like aspects of both. I'm keeping and using both. I prefer the FM3 for the feel, the cleans, the reverbs, the light crunch. I prefer the Helix Stomp for THE USABILITY and for John's Eric lead tone.
I picked up the guitar in 1988. I had a Peavey Rage with an 8" speaker and a Washburn explorer shaped A10. I didn't even have reverb for several years. The modern gear is absolutely phenomenal by comparison. I have a Boss GX100. It sounds great, and the feel is wonderful. I use an Eventide h90 for reverb and pitch stuff with the GX100.
Your Fractal stuff is what got me to look into them a bit more and a few months later my Helix LT is sold and my FM9 has pride of place. It just gives me an easier way to get the tones that I want.
John is Ice Castle your Glitch Reverb equivalent in the Fractal to Helix Glitch Reverb??
My FM3 is just such a nice all-around product. Small, powerful, quite affordable, just a terrific product. 👍
I haven't looked at another modeler nor amp at all since I got my FM3 a few years ago. It does everything I want it to
@@cbsaulren Yeah, they really got it right. Sounds terrific.
I really enjoy your content in general but I especially love your Fractal tone builds. The FM3 is pretty much home to me so I appreciate any Fractal videos you make.
4:40
For whatever reason I can build a tone that I like so much faster on the quad cortex than the hx stomp. I don't know if their defaults just suit my ear but it means I get more time to play instead of constantly tweaking. I still have Helix Native so don't feel like I'm really giving anything up.
Said it before will say it again. All the modellers are top notch now. It really is the form factor you need to decide on. HX stomp XL for me. Perfect size and just enough switches.
Can you check the new GGD Studio Cabs Contenders plugin irs and what do you think about them
No idea. I’m listening through iPhone SE speaker!
The point you make about finding a tone in a modeller that you love (rather than trying to match a physical amp/pedalboard) is the most important observation. Doesn’t matter what produces the tone.
I switched because I got tired of fighting with the reverbs in the helix, I don't actually like them very much. I much prefer the reverbs and delays in the fractal to the helix, and I think the amp modeling is better?
I also don't use DAWs hardly at all. I think the helix is actually the best solution for most people though
Frets and fingerboard looking particularly shiny today
Beautiful playing! You do them both justice but I prefer the L6
I have the Helix, Stomp, Axe-Fx III and Quad Cortex and I think they all sound great and different. I was on the fence about selling the Line 6 stuff and the Quad Cortex and even got shipping supplies. Then I plugged into them for one last time and realized that they all sound different enough that I couldn't part with any of them. 😂 One thing I noticed, I just got a Big Sky XM and tried using it in the Loop of each and discovered that it made a huge difference in the tone of both the Quad and Helix and it wasn't good. It made both units sound bad. Then I plugged my guitar into the modelers by themselves and also the Big Sky MX by itself and the tone was amazing. This led me to the conclusion that if you're going to use a modeler just use it by itself. I didn't plug it into the Axe-Fx III because that unit has stellar reverbs that are equal in tonal quality.
I love this comment! It's like a modern version of "I unplugged all my pedals and went straight into my deluxe reverb and it sounded amazing!" Seriously though, this is the first time I've heard someone talking about the individual qualities of the current platforms.
I guessed FM3 because it was LOUDER !!!
Reasoning that you hadn't dialled it's volume in yet to match the levels you have with Helix.
That FM3 might have been brighter but it was difficult to tell if that was really the case with the volume difference.
I’ll love for you to do a preset based on the 80’s with 2290 and boss chorus, for songs like the promise you made and many others
Having owned both of these, I feel like the fm3 would be "fixed" for me by having three more foot switches on its face. For a 3 button pedal it's gigantic. The same isn't true for the fm9 really, it's roughly equiv to a full helix pedalboard with some differences obviously. Power-wise the fm3 is more similar to a fully helix from my view, just the real estate of the pedal is not well used in my opinion.
It all will boil down to the software and user interface. A modeler is just a computer in a box. As cpus/dsps get more powerful the difference in sounds if any will vanish. The quality of the algorithms make the accuracy. Ease of use and regular updates is the one I will go for.
It's so hard because they are all so great. I actually switched from Helix to Quad Cortex, originally because of the size but I do think the tones are a bit more crisp to my ears. Having said that, when I sold my helix floor I kept my HX stomp which i actually think sounds better than the helix floor (I have no idea why). I still use my hx stomp all the time and there is a time and place for all of this stuff. I know I tend to take the hx stomp for fly dates just because of how compact it is. But in a perfect world, i wish there was a way i could combine what i love about the helix, quad cortex and fractal together.
how many modelers do you need, john? ah ah ah
Tonewise the Helix Native seem to have more "air" in the model rendering. By air I mean that quality of acoustic sound you get from the combination of amp, speaker, and mic in a room. It's not a real significant difference but the Fractal seemed less articulate and clear to my ear.
The sounds are great, but way too wet for me. If you really want to compare the core amp and cab sound, how it breaks up and responds dynamically etc, it can’t be swimming in this long ethereal modulated reverb.
Fractal sounds incredible, Helix also, minimal difference, compared studio and live Fractal for ambience effects is much deeper, I purchased York Audio IR, now my HX is a different animal!!
I don’t know that accuracy of amp reproduction is all that important. Coming from the classical world as a violinist, you really needed to find your instrument. Then it was down to you to craft your own sound. All the great violinists of the 20th century were instantly recognisable, and possibly would have even when playing someone else’s instrument. Maybe Boss have a point in creating their own amps if it helps us avoid being generic and find our individuality?
I guess I am just too stubborn. I’ve got a modern valve amp that can go silent. Has an amazing DI and just feels better than anything programmed. With the blindfold test you probably can’t hear the difference. It’s more of a feel thing for me.
Helix is amazing for live adjustments and tweaking the UI is so easy and the fx are probably as good on that as on fractal. But the amp models aren’t even close fractal is a league above
Exactly my presets that I use mostly are not based on anything.
Fractal does sound superior to other modelers, but it isn't a perfect device. I would like to suggest that their audio interface capabilities are below average as recordings are out of sync and you have to adjust interface latency manually. That's if you choose to use fracal as an audio interface.
Thinking of selling my pod go already and getting a boss gx100. Someone stop me?????
Do it
Trying to prevent yourself from impulse buying eh? You need to ask yourself a few questions.
1) What does the GX100 offer that I can't already get with the Pod Go?
2) Am I going to get the sounds i want to get out of this device based on what I've seen?
3) Is this just a case of GAS?
I would suggest testing it out at a guitar/music gear shop before outright selling the Pod Go first.
I like my GX-100. Easy enough to use, plenty of of buttons, sounds good, built like a tank
Axe FX 2 XL user here, i love the idea of the FM3, but no dual amp option on the FM3 is a deliberate and wankerish omission by Fractal that makes me quite angry... They could have very easily given it enough power to do that, but deliberately pegged it, what if i don't need millions of switches as per the FM9? Makes me think Cliff is a bit of a qunt...
i will never switch to fractal. you made me a helix boi. so im an hx stomp boi for life now.
I like both my hx stomp xl and fm3 but if I could only have one it would be the fm3 without hesitation. I can get ambient tones that really inspire me on the fm3 and warm overdriven searing tones on fm3 also.
Maybe I could get those tones on hx stomp but seems like I have to work a little harder to get the results. I will continue to work with helix though and maybe with future updates it will draw me to spend more time with it?
Cheers
I watch you for your opinions mainly and skip your playing. I do listen to your Fractal stuff playing because I have Axe Fx III. With Boss now coming to Katana Gen 3 I am interested in using Fractal with the Boss for live, but still using Fractal. So I understand the Helix stuff and CZcams is not good for distinguishing. Your playing I like though.😄😄
For me: Helix -> Quad Cortex -> Fractal -> Helix -> QC -> FM9….. it’s the circle of (modeler) life
Why did you list Fractal twice?
@@wavewithus4081 sorry. The fm9 is the fractal device I have. Just meant to say I keep going round and around between those 3 modelers
@@kylefletcher8489man I feel ridiculous, I don't know how I saw you listed fractal twice but not qc or helix lol, I must have been awfully tired.
Somehow I thought you were ranking in order hahah
What's up?
Played the Helix for 2 years, didn't make me happy. Bought the Fractal FM9 and loved it instantly! Still using it every day at home and gigs.
I know I am in the minority here, but I have just never liked the sound of any of line 6’s products. I far prefer Fractal for amp tones, and Boss for effects. But I do like the user interface on line 6 products more than Fractal or Boss.
You're not alone 😅
Why would you downgrade like that?
Based on this video, your playing sounds better on the FM3, Note quality is easier to distinguish and you can follow your playing easier. The effects are more subtle too.
I wouldn't buy the Helix on that showing.
I have just moved from a Helix floor to a Fractal FM9. I don’t play professionally, just for fun. But I had built a number of presets that mimicked artists’ pedalboards. Philips Sayce and David Grissom were two examples. On the Fractal I’m starting them from scratch again. The chain options are slightly different, also the way you can swap out pedals and amps using the ABCD options for each block. It’s a slow process, there is a learning curve. But it’s also a way to learn how to use the Fractal and get more out of it rather than trying to create a like-for-like with how I ran the Helix. I think the Helix user base is significantly bigger, so it's easier to get up and running and find an abundance of free presets, and why there's more of an audience for related content. I'm in the honeymoon period but happy I made the jump.
Fractal sounds way superior!
I'm Team Fractal so I'm totally on board for this. 🤣
You're tried the rest, now try the best!
...the best is the Axe III, but close enough.
Either this was click/title bait or he is all over the places
Fx truefire. Hate it
Helix sounds brighter not so constrained.
John do you have an album? If not, you need to create one. Seriously I could listen to you play for hours.
Not sure where people see fractal as HARDER to navigate or what ever. To me, you learn it and your done. Tone and feel is unmatched imho.