Greco, Burny, Tokai & More: A Guide To Lawsuit-Era Japanese Guitars
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- čas přidán 1. 06. 2023
- Burny, Fernandes, Greco, Tokai, Guyatone, Ibanez… there are dozens of brands from '60s and '70s Japan that were eager participants in the so-called lawsuit era, building and selling quite a few copies of American guitars. In this video, John O'Brien from PTD Vintage & Joe show us some brands to look for and run through some of the best guitars at PTD Vintage.
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#madeinjapan #fender #burny #greco #guyatone #lawsuit #japanese #guitar - Zábava
Thank you for speaking about our instruments! We would have been glad to do an interview. Guyatone was the first electric guitar manufacturer from Japan. We were making original instruments since the 1930's. Feel free to reach out to us for future information, or expert references.
Now this is the ideal example of how company should be. Keep up the wonderful work!
Is your brand still for sale in Europe? Where can I find you?
that fuzz tone sounds AWFUL ! sheeesh
Is this about guitars or fuzz???
It’s about 18 minutes too long.
@@ColonelPaynus you are brilliant, my guy
Too much fuzz for sure
The fuzz sucks.
Cool fuzz tone tho
So there l was asking myself why you demonstrate these guitars through a bees hive like fuzz effect, making any instrument character dissapear, but apparently that was an advertisement 🤨
that pedal really sucked, didn't it? it sounds like a cheap 70's solid state amp with ripped cones on ten
I don't like fuzz effect.
It’s a dream of mine to own a Greco Les Paul one day. Imagine playing a guitar with your last name on the headstock. Too cool.
Water slide decals can do that.
The information here is pretty good in general. It's worth also noting that all of these companies made many of the same models at different price-points - with the higher numbers (which reflected the MSRP in Yen) having fancier woods, higher quality electronics and hardware etc.. The other important note is that many top-notch copies of US designs are still being made today. Tokai, Navigator (an ESP brand), and Momose, all make very high end copies in addition to more affordable Japanese models, and very affordable models made more cheaply in other countries.
"I don't know if their trees grow different..."
Nice. I was living in Chiba, Japan and noticed, across a busy street--a Les Paul headstock sticking up out of the "sodai gomi" for that month. My wife says I ran across the lines of cars to grab it. Turned out to be a deeply-encrusted but serviceable '78 Les Paul Custom copy. Three pickups, the whole deal. I dubbed it "The Love Gun" and still play it today. Thank you, Japan, for giving me this amazing gift.
I have an Aria Pro II ...it is a ts-400 model....I am 57 years old...I got this guitar when I was in 10th grade....it is absolutely beautiful...it is also very heavy !....a wide variety of tones....especially with the phase switch.....it is legit for playing any style......jazz, country, rock.... I just finished filing down all of the saddle pieces because the strings had worn deep, wide notches in them over the past 40 years....this guitar is one of the most solid, well built things I have ever seen......
I have an Aria Pro Cardinal series cs 400. It's an absolute gem . It is my most favorite guitar I own. I will never get rid of it. Glad to see that there is more people out there that know how good they are.
I like Japanese guitars. I have an early 90s Squier Strat that I'm proud to own.
Yes indeed, japs squiers are now 4 $$$$ on the floor and deserve every penny of it!!
Great segment guys. I have seen many awesome Japanese guitars in my 25 years of on-and-off travel to Tokyo and Osaka. My favorite lawsuit-era guitar was the Ibanez Rickenbacker Bass Copy. Peter Hook used one in the early phase of Joy Division. I did buy a 1988/89 ST-57 MIJ Black Strat for about $365 with a case, I really love the neck and overall feel of the guitar.
Lots of interesting instruments. I bought a Tokai Goldstar Sound S-style guitar in 1984 and still have it. I’ve never played an S-style guitar that felt or sounded better. I gotta say that nothing throws a blanket over a guitar’s tone and obscures how it really sounds like a fuzz.
I have two Tokai guitars - a Springy Sound strat and a Love Rock Les Paul Jr in solid mahogany - they are the equal of or better than any similar electric guitars ever made anywhere. The Springy Sound strats were made for the Japanese domestic market as replicas of '59 American Fenders, as the Japanese are wild for vintage electric guitars, and there just weren't enough of them in Japan to satisfy the demand. American servicemen (mostly Navy) ran into them, recognized their quality and insane bang for the buck and started bringing them home - and the brand took off from there. I also have a gorgeous Univox-branded hollow-bodied bass - manufactured by Matsumoku, which also made instruments (and still do) for Epiphone, Aria, Teisco, Burney, Kay - and at least a dozen other labels. The Japanese were making first-rate stringed instruments long before there was a United States, so the are nothing to sneeze at...
I have 3 modern MIJ Tokais: 335, tele and a P-bass. Awesome stuff.
PS, That distorted tone is very fizzy, maybe a problem with the micing?
I've got a '79 Greco GO 1500 and putting down one of my everyday guitars and picking the Greco up is like getting out of a Cadillac and stepping into a Rolls Royce. It's the finest guitar I've ever played.
Cool video !! Japanese Guitars are the best !! I love them all !!
(no mention of "Aria Pro II" made in the "Matsumoku Factory". I got a few ones, like a LP Standard from 77', wich is great !)
I was going to post same comment about no mention of Aria Pro II but you beat me to it. My first guitar was a pre lawsuit cherry burst LP in 1981. It was used when I bought it. Never should have sold it of course.
Was thinking the same thing! So many incredible Aria Pro II and Matsumoku guitars, it's a travesty to leave them out
Excessive fuzz. I play my old Fernandes all the time without plugging it in when trying out a new hook or idea. It sounds great even before amplification.
Very informative video. Great work. I just have one negative comment. Junk whatever distortion box you used.
Alex Lifeson of Rush really likes Burny guitars. He mentioned them by name in a interview. I have a '79 Aria Pro II Les paul custom copy in cherry sunburst. I absolutely love it! Aria was never formally hit with a lawsuit, but Aria/Matsumoku was definitely on the radar.
They even made great drums!
The Matsumoku made guitars are just incredibly well made instruments
@@mikeglazier5993 Yes they are.🎸👍😎
Years ago, my landlord got an Ibanez Les Paul Copy from 70s and man it was so well done and well playable😃Now I'm happy with my crafted in Japan Jaguar which was produced between 2002-2004🙂
I owned a Tokai LS-150 and now own an Edwards black beauty LP. I ended up trading the Tokai for a Gibson explorer (which I sold soon after), but in hindsight that was a bad move. The Tokai was one of the most spectacular guitars I've ever played and owned. Resonant, not a blemish, beautifully cut nut, flawless fretwork, stayed in tune, the whole deal. The worst part is just the pickups but that was an easy fix.
I'd love to have a Tokai again one day.
I have an ‘82 FujiGen Yamaha Super Axe (Gibson 335) and it’s amazing.
I love fuzz more than any other guitar sound.
That one sucks.
Still loving my Orville by Gibson 59 Les Paul. Such a killer axe!
The truth of the matter is that Gibson did not sue Ibanez. Norlin (Gibson's parent company) filed a lawsuit against Elger (Ibanez USA). And the lawsuit was basically about Elger importing guitars that had a particular type of headstock which looked very similar to the headstock on a Les Paul guitar. Norlin claimed copyright infringement of the shape of the headstock. The case never went to trial and was settled out of court.
That was a wonderful era for guitar afficianados. The Japanese manufacturers had really hit their stride and were producing instruments of incredible quality offering great value for money. Many of those instruments were great in their own right. And many could be made even better with appropriate customisation.
You spend a lot of time talking about common models that were "reproduced". However, one you did miss was Greco's replicas of Rickenbacker guitars. They are very special instruments of impeccable quality. It probably wasn't that hard for a Japanese manufacturer to produce a decent Strat, Tele or LP replica. But producing Rickenbacker 12 string replicas that sound and look closer to the real thing than anything else on the market before or since necessitated incredible skill.
This should be top comment without doubt. Respect K.
the guyatone custom surf guitar sounds amazing
I own a Guyatone Reverb Jazz GA 1050 from 1973. It's a great Fender Silverface Twin Reverb clone. Heard that it's pretty close to the original
I would LOVE to have a Burny Custom LP Randy Rhoads 80's model! Andy Latimer, Steve Hackett and Robert Fripp used Burny guitar a lot and these sound HUGE! :D
I have a ‘78 SuperAxe700…….in Cherry Red…..looks very much like the Murphys they are knocking out today…..fitted with Monty’s PAFs and wiring kit…..just an awesome guitar….best neck I have played in 40yrs…..have owned Tokais since ‘84 and my first Reborn Old……and played them ever since…..
It’s these kind of videos that have kept this fairytale alive for a number of years. There was no lawsuit. Gibson was in the process of putting together a cease and desist order too Ibanez, but by the time it was ready to be filed Ibanez had already made the changes to their headstocks so nothing went forward. No lawsuit! I purchased a 1977 Ibanez 2341(triple pickup) in 81 because of the price and the super 70’s pickups sounded as good as any Gibson PAF’s at that time. Still an amazing sounding guitar and the star tuners keep it in tune. Used it on the road for years. I love it but the overall build quality is not as good as the same Gibson version, having owned both and still do. It is nice to see the Japanese guitars getting their due but the “lawsuit era” thing got to stop.
I love the listings that say "rare lawsuit era" and they have ridiculous prices. I have a couple of Aria Pro II guitars I paid $50 each for back in the 90s/oughts because people thought so low of that era of Japanese guitars back then. Then this "lawsuit" legend came around and those same models are pushing $1000+ it's just nonsense. Though a lot of those late 70s/early 80s Arias had DiMarzio super distortion pups
Maybe relax? It’s just a way to describe a time period and what was happening with these builds
@@zentime8047 what indicates to you that people are excited and they need to "relax"? 😆
You're absolutely right,if Gibson and Fender just started sueing everybody they'd go broke with litigation.
Got a 74 ibanez shortscale bass, copy of an eb-3 slothead, plays alot like my gibsons, but the maxon pickups give it more clarity than the gibsons, won't push the front end of an amp as hard as a real mudbucker though
Nice. I must say, at 60, I own most of the guitars reviewed, including Gibsons and Fenders. But the newer Tokai’s, from the last ten years, of which I own seven Japanese models, are far superior to anything else available. I find myself picking up my LC or AST before any other guitar in my collection. No comparison.
I own a 80’s Fernandes Strat people want to buy every time I gig with it. I can’t let it out of my sight. Maybe it is an old Tokai Lol . Nice to hear the new ones are good too.
@@SuperOhdannyboy Fernandes are great Strats. I owned one in the early 80’s, but it was stollen. One of the biggest loses I ever had. Hold on tight.
Many of the Japanese copies were made in the same factory. So there could be a link to Tokai.
@@SuperOhdannyboy No wonder - it's Burny, afterall, wonderful instruments
The ESP Navigators are FANTASTIC guitars!!
In the late '70's I bought, new, a wine red El Degas Les Paul Custom copy with Di Marzio Super Distortion pickups and gold hardware. I wish I still had it!
Great and timely vid as I’m currently looking at MIJ Les Pauls. Would love to get your thoughts on the late ‘80’s/early 90’s Orville by Gibson Les Pauls, specifically the ones with Shaw pickups.
Back in the '70's I had a Kasuga Les Paul copy. It was a great guitar.
A few years ago I played a Laguna Les Paul, Japanese made from the 70s. Lovely slim neck like a 60s Gibson it was easily the best Les Paul I'd ever played. I wanted to buy it but the shop owner wouldn't sell. He figured that since it was rare it must be worth a fortune...
I have converted most of my guitar collection to MIJ 70-80's - Greco, Fugijen, Matsumoku, Fender Japan, Tokai - incredible value
Also if youre looking for a cheaper Rick 4001 alternative, look out for the lawsuit ones
Modern Greco guitars are excellent quality. Really awesome guitars.
I have a 1975 morris les paul, it’s pretty great !
Thanx for this video,to have a better look into Japanese guitar history and the main labels.
But a lot of info about other makers/producers/"Gakki's" isn't mentioned here.Makers like Tama,Morideira Daion etc.aren't mentioned in this video.
One that was mentioned here ,is Terada,which builded this last Epiphone pré-Elitist Casino,but they have build also the Epiphone Elitist Series,Orville by Gibson, Japanese Gretsch and Guild guitars.
I own 14 Terada guitars,the higher quality line of their guitars.Mostly acoustics,which are very highgrade guitars,but also 3 ES 335 copies,which to my opinion are even better than original Gibson ES 335 models. These guitars are totally rare,i have seen 6 examples of them(the 3 i own and 3 on Internet)and some Hohner and Morris labelled versions.
Great video, but you misspoke. Fujigen Gakki was most definitely not ABSORBED by Fender Japan. They were contracted to manufacture the Fender guitars that said "Made in Japan". Tokai was also contracted at different times. For the most part Fujigens say "Made in Japan" and Tokais say "Crafted in Japan". There was no real Fender Japan division. They were just putting the Fender name on those guitars because the excellent quality gave them the confidence to do so. Fender did not start their own manufacturing in Japan until at the earliest 2005 and i believe it was between 2010 and 15.
Small correction. Fender ended their contract with Fujigen on 2015 and opened their own factory. There is now a Fender Japan division, and new instruments made here carry a similar sticker to American or Mexican-made models. Fujigen started building their own instruments under the FGN brand, as well as taking contracts from other brands, most recently Schecter.
A couple of corrections to your statement. "Crafted in Japan" was is the serial number designation used by Dyna Gakki, who took over production from Fujigen in 1997 because they couldn't keep up with orders. They still produce the new Fender Japan models today. Tokai was onky used as a manufacturer for Fender for. Few months in 1997 during the transition from Fujigen Gakki to Dyna Gakki.
@@benanders7375 Where are you getting the information that Dyna Gakki still makes mij Fenders? Every source i've seen says Fender has been doing it themselves since they finally opened up their own manufacturing facility between 2010 and 2015.
What pedal is Joe using?
I have a Yamaki Performer from around 78 which is an excellent copy of a '58 Les Paul custom in ebony - it has a correct long tenon neck joint - it has the open book headstock and the correct split diamond inlay.
Yamaki was sued by acoustics
I own a History brand ES-335 copy that I love. Would like to own more Japanese guitars!
That sounds like fly in my ears
I met you at Rainbows for all Children! You’re amazing!!
For me the _lawsuit_ thing is over the top for many such guitars which were a long way off Les Paul specs. In partucular, for me, any guitar which looks like a Les Paul but has a _bolt-on_ neck is not a Les Paul copy no matter how much it looks like one.
19:28
nah i disagree here
my 2020 epiphone firebird made in china is really top notch
full sized CTS pots, orangedrop capacitor, grover tuners, neck-through construction
yes, the pickups were muddy, but that was my only complaint. i just added some lollars and banjo kluson tuners and it's equal on par with a gibson imo
Got my first Yamaha Pacifica 212 in about '95 I think, been a fan of Japanese guitars ever since....
But goodness guys,enough with the fuzz,it tells you nothing...
Hopefully, one day I will own a Burny Les Paul. The only thing keeping me away at this point is Customs and the additional unknown fees.
Ari Pro II made pretty awesome guitars, pre lawsuit era, especially the Les Pauls
I've had a number of Gibson LP's pass through my hands including Standard's and Custom Shop's. But my 74/75 Greco EG800 still has that little something extra
I got Suzuki Three's W-300 made in 1978 which is copy of Martin D-45. Nice guitar.
I got my hands on a 78 Ibanez Les Paul Custom off of Facebook Market ...it plays way better than my 60's standard Les Paul
I clicked on the link to learn more about the MIJ guitars, the use (way too much) of the fuzz pedal was a distraction from the sound of the original guitar pickups.
You missed the Takamine era where they were literally copying Martin’s down to the font on the headstock. Maybe this was just a video ad for what the store has in stock, which may be a bit misleading
It's not technically a lawsuit guitar because it's not a Fender/Gibson knockoff, but I've been playing a '77 Aria PE-145 for 30 years and it's an amazing instrument.
Great model!
These are the brands that in the early 80s we bought because the Gibson's and the Fenders who were owned by CBS at that time were both shit quality and way too expensive for this 16-year-old at the time so just about all of us bought these Japanese Less Paul's that were way cheaper, and we could bang them around no worries. I never thought the words vintage and Greco would be in the same sentence! Mine was sacrificed to the Gods of rock live on stage after a memorably great pub gig in front 200 or so mad Georgia southerners. Right after i purchased a Kramer because like every other guitarist from my age group i wanted everything Edward VanHalen had. Once he endorsed Kramer guitars I had to have it. And it also was a great guitar;
I still owe and play from time to time my seventies Les Paul Custom model made by Pearl (I guess Matsumoto factory) It has a set neck, rosewood fingerboard and 2 piece (pancake) mahogany body. The pickups are probably original, look like PAF's but they are unbranded. They are mounted with three screws instead of two which I think is odd if these are the original pickups for the guitar. I have seen foto's of a similar Pearl Les Paul but never one with pickups that had three mounting screws. The polepieces can be adjusted and they have chrome covers on them. On the headstock is a mother of pearl French lily inlay it has also a volute. It weighs a lot just like a real Les Paul Custom from the seventies...
Check out a Cortez Les Paul. That is, if you can find one.
Cool Video. I have some of these older (lawsuit) models, they're. One thing I would note is towards the end of the video and he's trashing Epiphone a bit. There are some bad Epihones for sure, especially the bolt-on stuff as he noted, but......Epiphone is quite decent. Their more recent stuff especially is, especially the signature models. I have a 2015 Epi that Rivals Gibsons in build quality.
Didnt Takamine make a guild 12 string copy? Seems like i remember evenbtge bv Takamine logo mage to look like tge guild logo. Wondered if you had heard or seen those not sure how many they did looked like the Rhode island brand jumbo.
I have a Burny les paul with p90's but the output jack has gotten extremely flimsy and loose so i cant even plug a 1/4 inch cable in it, does anyone know if its an easy/ cheap fix?
I also bought a Les paul copy (a MIJ one according to the seller) thats made by the company Comodore riviera, but i cant find any information about it at all
genuinely if you try bending the jack with pliers and a little common sense the metal is easily bent and you can set it back to where itll make contact with the 1/4in cable
Sounds like you may have loose screws and likely a wire has broken inside the input jack. An easy fix if you can solder well enough. If it were me id take it to the closest music store that do setups and repairs of guitars. just 1 wire being soldered and fixing a loose screw shouldn't be much at all so ask them first. Of course, theyll be a service fee, otherwise theyll charge you a full setup price maybe like $75 plus your small repair maybe $25. I'm not really sure about costs as I've worked on my own instruments for years.
A new Jack is like 8 dollars.
Turn off the damn fuzz tone and let us hear the guitars.
Right?! Gotta’ love lesson videos:”let’s tune up before we start. Here’s a low E. THWAMAWUMP!”
Yeah this could have been a really cool vid if they didn't have to sneak that in... We're not dumb Reverb...
Had a mid 80s Burny. Just incredible. Installed Duncan antiquities and was just perfection. Also had a mid 80s Greco black beauty 3 humbucker. Couldn't vibe with that one at all.
Fujigen was not 'absorbed' by Fender Japan. Fujigen makes about 80% of the Japanese models. Beyond that, the majority of their profit comes from manufacturing interiors for high-end Lexus automobiles.
One: please reshoot the video without the awful fuzz pedal.
Two: when you reshoot, get the FujiGen pronunciation correct. It’s FujiGen, with a hard G, not FujiJen with a soft G. Use Google Maps to confirm the sign outside the factory: フジゲン.
Otherwise, nice intro to Japanese guitars. 😎👍🏼
Terrible product placement (nobody is watching this to see an ad dropped in), and I agree with you. As far as fuzz goes that sounds awful
How do you not mention Takamine when talking about acoustic copies from Japan???
Japanese guitars are the Bomb. I currently have a bound 62 tele and a Fuji-Gen Epiphone Gibson Les Paul
Wow, that fuzz got old real fast.
Prior to Custom Shop, AVR, etc, you almost couldn't buy a decent Fender guitar off the rack, the new ones were three-bolt crap, it was just a desert. I recall the first batch of Tokai Strats to show up at my local guy, I ended up with two of them. Then I took a Tele. At a couple/few hundred bucks apiece, on pre-CBS specs, they seemed almost too good to be true. Wore the frets off one in particular ... a 50's style maple neck Strat with the ugliest, vintage-incorrectest three-color burst you ever saw ... but what a player, featherweight, sounded great unplugged, etc. I think it's still around here somewhere, there's no way I'd have let it go ...
this burny black beauty is the exact same model the second guitarist from tame impala uses
Love mij les paul
I have mij epiphone lp 80
Amazing guitar
Weird that this vid suddenly appeared, just as im looking to sell my pre lawsuit LP
It is a normal thing to see a Tokai or Greco and jump to a fight for it. Just excellent correct era vintage instruments but not cheap at all nowdays!!!
What about ProMartin?
For everyone crying about fuzz, here are your timestamps:
Burny LP clean 5:45
Super Axe clean 8:42
Guyatone LG clean 13:02
Greco Super Sound clean 14:31
Squier Tele 15:46
Epiphone Casino 18:34
Fuzz hides tonal flaws. Play these guitars clean and then with a bit of OD - but no fuzz, please. And tell us what amps you’re using.
When you are purchasing a Japanese copy I buy them through a proxy service and then from Yahoo Japan Auctions. You get better deals for going through the complication of importing it yourself. The whole Japan copy thing is incredibly complicated because even in Japan, companies like Fernandes slapped their logo or the Burny logo on guitars produced by other companies like Nerada or Matsumoko. Certain era Burnys are amazing (mostly 80-95) and modern ones are not nearly on the same level. Same with Greco. For modern ones go Edwards and Navigator (both made by ESP), Tokai, Momose, FGN (made by fujigen), Crews.
I don’t think there was ever a lawsuit. Just a cease and desist
Gibson filed a lawsuit against the US distributor for Ibanez. It was settled out of court. There were other examples of cease and desist.
Glad the subject was covered but that fuzz sound, IMHO was just awful, sorry!
I can't wait for the Mexican built guitar hype, followed by Korean built, followed by Indonesian, followed by Chinese, followed by... they will all have their quirkiness that people will push as "cool" for numerous personal reasons... basically whatever "built" you have in your hands today will be special someday. :)
The distorion on the video looks like a really bad pedal distortion... really did not get the point across of good quality until the sound was set clean.
If you're the fuzz pedal manufacturer and you're watching this: Thank Reverb for making a very bad ad for your product. Putting it in a fuzz shootout would work fine. Putting it in a vid about a different, but really interesting topic was just distracting and annoying as hell.
This
Exactly. Playing any guitar through that much fuzz gives no indication of what the guitar actually sounds like and it is annoying.
It's so true! That fuzz tone is absolutely horrible. Can't tell how bad or how good something sounds using that crap. Much less even if th3 guitar is in tune.
Gibson did not sue Ibanez😀
It would have been nice to actually hear the sound of the guitars clean not just Fuzz…
I have three JV Squiers: An 82 Strat, 83 Strat and an 82 Tele. I wouldn't trade any of them for any U.S. model made in the last 30 years.
Also, a CIJ Geddy Lee bass and a killer sounding Yamaki acoustic. I'm turning Japanese, I really think so.
And yeah, that fuzz pedal is possibly the most annoying tone I've ever heard, and I'm fucking old.
Jesus Christ, I’d like to hear the guitar. Not a fuzz pedal.
Great information. Man tone down the treble, are you trying to scare us old timers away?
I tried o make it through this video but that tone was like nails on a chalk board.
Jesus. Fuzz privileges revoked.
Luv guitars in general and don't care about branding. Problem I have is how to get a great Japanese guitar ... seems as though there are bad knockoffs flooding the market ... which is exactly what I would make happen if I was a greedy international corporate brand like Gibson. I'd pay Chinese to make and flood the market with shitty copies of the Japan copies and taking profits off the top while I was at it... "I'll take 3000 Tokai labeled copies please $75 a piece" ..." Ok sell em for $150 free sh 7:56 ipping boyeez! "
That said someone take the guitars away from Jimi please!
Lovely, but jesus the fuzz sounds....
All better than Gibsons for a fraction of the price
Pull the neck pickup out and look at the neck fitment on the Greco and Burnys 😂😂😂 tell me that is quality when you can stick your finger in the tenion gap..
Mann les pauls were cool
Less fuzz please
Call me crazy or weird, but I just don't like fuzz. Never have.
They all all sound like ......fuzz
The fuzz sounds like crap