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Trees vs Water - What Makes A Good Emergency Landing Site? Day 9 of the 31 Day Safer Pilot Challenge
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- čas přidán 15. 08. 2024
- Welcome to Day 9 of the Safer Pilot Challenge 2024.
In this video we look at how to choose the best landing site in an emergency and import factors to consider.
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9 for 9 - I play “the game” on every flight. One thing not mentioned is wind on emergency landings. As I play “the game”, I try to take wind into account as well …
So smart!!!
9 for 9, I have always been on the lookout for an off airport landing site and had to use a farmers field in the past with no incident to anything and was able to fly it out of the same field with no incident. Additionally the farmer was super nice!! Of course my elderly grandmother that was with me wanted to know why the cows were that close to the runway!!
9/9. Excellent! As you mentioned at the end of the video, the critical thing is to be able to decelerate as slowly as possible. "Leave a long skidmark" as they say. The more G's you can dissipate during the stop, the better chance you have to survive. Every extra foot makes a difference.
One more point: aircraft owners sometimes try to save their plane. Don't even consider this. When that aircraft fails, it's only job is to protect the occupants (and those on the ground). Once the engine fails, the insurance company owns the plane!
Skin first, then tin!
9:9-Playing the game was hammered into me by my instructors and I am grateful. I have also talked my family through this, not to freak them out, but to take the “scary mystery” out of flying and let them know we always have options. Of course, I also stress that the game is very unlikely to manifest in a real emergency but that I will handle it on the odd chance it does.
So good!
9 of 9... I've played the "where would I land?" game since my instructor drilled that into me 30 years ago. One of the most important lessons I hope never to use.
Thanks 9 x 9. I played that game even more flying across the ocean. Even multi engines can quit. Always have a plan.
9 for 9. I am doing this with every flight. "where would I land" My wife helps play the game, and I always enlist any others pilots with me do the same.
Foreflight's glide rings are a great aid!
9 for 9 really interesting statistics. Love “the game” to make sure you’re always aware.
9 for 9! Always playing the game on every flight. Best to have an emergency landing site and not need it than to suddenly need one and not have it.
9 for 9……I made the mistake of playing the game with my CFI out loud: “If the engine quit right now, I would land in that parking lot”. They didn’t take too kindly and said they were superstitious. Even though they didn’t like it, they did say “Good job for keeping that in mind though”.
Twenty - five years ago, next month, was taking a time building flight with a fellow commercial ground school chum. Three hour flight suddenly went silent, over an ocean bay ( Nova Scotia ), and we became a glider at 1500 ft. ( was passenger, so, NOT PIC ) Not a lot of time. Best option - peninsula ahead 1.5 miles. CRM used - aimed for two huge trees. Ripped wings off to decelerate. Fell maybe 10 ft. Six hours in hospital. PIC had cut to head. I had broken tailbone, a few cuts, and wicked bruising.
Your comments on boots rings very loud with me. Fortunately, that didn’t happen. Location was someone’s backyard, so care was almost instant. EMS was on scene within minutes. Came to with military C130 overhead - had been training less than 10 minutes away.
Every word you spoke, is gospel !!!!!
Being vigilant is key, but as you say / never tell your passengers what you are thinking, unless they wonder, out loud, why you’re so curious about ‘What’s down there ?’
9 for 9
Brian
9 for 9! One of the best investments in upgrading to dual GI-275s is getting real time wind aloft data and synthetic vision. I got my PPL in 1990 pre-GPS/ iPads/etc. While I believe in having a strong core in basic airmanship, I think its pure ignorance to not embrace all tech and tools in today's flying environment.
9 of 9. Excellent analysis! My old instructor started "The Game" with me from day one. Also talked of "Following the Jolly Green Giant's footsteps" (open pastures in and amongst the wooded areas) on cross countries. Have ridden through on forced landing when we suffered a propellor blade failure in cruise on our way home from Oshkosh. Father-in-law did a wonderful job of putting us down on a rural Iowa highway in his Long EZ. The late summer cornfields weren't a good option as they were mature and 6' tall. Trailered the plane to the town's airport (where we were gliding towards), checked everything out, made some minor repairs, put on a new prop and we flew it home 3 days later. Met a lot of nice people... :)
9 for 9. For mountain flying besides watching for the open field, we want to land in the lower terrain... because you will likely be there at least overnight, it is warmer in the lower terrain, there are more people down low, and you will likely be found sooner because the ground search and rescue teams can get to you sooner. Mountain Flying Aviation in Colorado. Jer/ Eberhard
Great comment about the stats potentially being skewed for roads, because we only hear about the incidents where there was injury/damage and not the successes. There is a famous story of World War II bomber survivability where analysts plotted the areas on returning bombers which had the most bullet holes, and decision-makers wanted to reinforce those areas...UNTIL someone noted that the areas where the returning bombers WEREN'T hit were the more vulnerable areas, because bombers that were hit there didn't make it back.
Personally, in the event of an engine failure I'm going for a major (multi-lane) road where available, especially at night, because they're more likely to be illuminated so I can better gauge my touchdown vs. setting a descent rate into pitch-black terrain and continuously bracing for impact.
Yep, I play this game too. I always wondered trees vs water, since I live near mountainous terrain with frequent lakes.
At first I was surprised by the low fatality rates cited, then I remembered this is about forced landings and not CFIT and inadvertent VFR into IMC. Thanks for the stats!
9 of 9 done. Really good information here but one thing that is not mentioned is the altitude factor. I personally like to fly as high as possible, especially if it's a cross-country flight. The way I see it the higher you are in the event of an engine failure you have altitude on your side to help you scan for a suitable area and having the longest glide time possible to find the best landing site and reach it. Planning can also help. Along with flying at a high altitude I also like to plan my route so I can fly over or nearby any airfields depicted in the charts.
9 for 9. I listened to a Canadian bush pilot explain if it is choice between trees or water choose the trees. Landing on water could be like landing on concrete and you could be knocked unconscious and if the plane sinks your dead.
9 for 9. In south Florida, my CFI mentioned to look for the white roads - either roads with traffic or shell rock canal roads. The fields unfortunately are likely muck and not going to be a smooth landing. Great video and thank you for the statistics.
I play this game as well. I recently flew a single engine plane from SRQ to MTH and decided to follow the coastline. I did it in MSFS first, creating user waypoints for good beaches in ForeFlight.
If I had engine trouble, we were going down like Mexican drug runners. 😂 I even packed a coconut bikini for my wife, and a leather loincloth for myself, so we could role-play for a minute.
9/9! Thanks for pushing the comfort zone a bit… I like that you’re talking worst case scenarios.
9 for 9. Important game for sure, always looking for possibilities.
9 for 9. Also my favorite game to plane on XC. But water for me 100%, less risk to injure others.
9 of 9 ! Have to say Jason this is the Aviator channel that just keeps giving. More CFI tips would be great .
Thank you my friend!!!
9 for 9! Interesting stats. We have "played the game" since we started flying in 1997. My husband and I are both pilots, so we frequently have the conversation out loud. We fly on the west coast, so every flight is a mountain flight. There's a lot of unforgiving land, but looking for the best option is important. Thank you again!
9 for 9. Thanks to you Jason, we are " Always Learning " Bob
9 for 9. I also play “the game” on every flight. Thanks for the statistics, I was surprised with water landings as I have always put that at the bottom of my list of places to land.
8 for 8! I’m going to start practicing this with my students again. Simulating an emergency over an airport and getting them to get us on the ground. See what it takes to actually hit your spot when you really need to! Great video!
I asked a pilot friend of mine when I was in flight school the question 'how often do you look for places to land when you're flying?'. His response was 'always'. Nine for nine.
9 for 9 Sir 👍😇👌OUTSTANDING INFORMATIVE VIDEO SIR Cheers 👌👌😇😇👍👍🍻🍻
9 of 9. I play that game when I fly. Always looking just in case
9 for 9! .. I am always looking where I am and my surroundings just in case.
9 for 9, thank you Jason. Thank you for the tip on using a shoe as a door wedge.
You have to also consider differences in the aircraft that you are flying. For my aircraft (a composite canard), it's actually recommended that you choose roads over fields, as historically speaking, the outcomes for forced landings in this type of aircraft have been far more favorable when landing on a hard surface. When it comes to ditching, it's completely different: being relatively lightweight, and constructed of foam core composite, these aircraft FLOAT - so as long as you land in a way that prevents the aircraft from breaking up, it will happily float all day afterwards, while you activate your ELT and PLB (you carry those, right?). Even if it does break up on contact with the water, you can pick the largest remaining piece and sit on that, because again - it floats.
Oh, and I have been playing "the game" on every flight for decades. :) Having modern avionics with a glide ring makes the game much easier to play.
I remember going with my son and his instructor on a flight. He covered this, and I wont ever forget it. Keep scanning.
9 for 9 !!! Absolutely love these videos …especially the great advice that you offer Jason…THANK YOU!!!👍
9 for 9. This was a good one for me since I fly over Lake Michigan sometimes between Northern Michigan and Wisconsin. I always play that game also...looking for my best landing location. I recently installed SmartGlide on my Archer and it adds more peace of mind while flying. Thanks for these Jason. FYI just had the chicken and waffles at Albert Whitted in St Pete...not too shabby.
I live in Wisconsin. The pilot examiner for my checkride specifically talked about not flying over lake Michigan because of engine failure and being in the middle of the lake. He said you freeze to death in lake Michigan in a matter of minutes. He told me if you value your life you will fly around it. Something to consider.
For sure, totally understand and I typically do it in the summer. Asked an instructor once about twin vs single and he said either one can have an engine failure and it's still risky. Even in my Archer, at 11,000 feet I'm in 10-15 miles of the point of no return halfway over so he suggested in the summer, aim for a boat and circle to land so I'm constantly watching for boats. In addition, I actually wear my lifevest on the trip. Thanks for the reply.@@BoardsofCapital
9 for 9. Things are going great. Cant wait for good flying weather.
I play the where would I go game all the time, and so does my wife - then we will compare answers. I also am often checking “Nearest” on my GPS for emergencies that might allow for a more controlled landing situation.
9/9 Great video. I liked your point about incidents that don't make the NTSB reports because there was no damage or injury.
9 for 9! Great video to give your input on where to land in an engine failure scenario!
9 for 9. Been struggling with emergencies lately so this really helped!!
9 for 9. I also play this game looking for a suitable emergency landing site. In the mountains you really need to know your area and route.
9 for 9!
Great as always!
THANK YOU Jason!
ET
9 for 9 - No obstacles, into the wind if possible, lowest speed ideally stall just before hitting the tree tops, water or land. Always concerned about the non retractable gear flipping the plane over. But in any scenario, would definitely always pick up the water over hard surfaces.
Luckly, I have been listening to you for several years now as I had my first engine problem on a cross country. I was playing the game tracking airport to airport. about 45 minutes out I had just passed a nice airport when I lost partial power. told ATC and headed back to the last Airport while trouble shooting. What surprised me that you might mention is how fast I covered that 4 miles. My only problem is at an unfamiliar field I failed to slow to final approach speeds and landed to fast. The good thing it was a long runway and my planes bleed speed off very quickly.
Thank You...Shoulder straps/harness...wish the statistics were available for comparison :>).
9 for 9!! Roger That! Thanks Jason !
9 for 9. This was a great topic and one I hope to never have to use. A very good teaching video. Thank you
9 for 9 Great info and great teaching!!! Thank you Jason!!!
949. Great game idea. Survival has great odds actually.
9 for 9 - one thing I’ve learnt first hand is that going out of state to fly (with an instructor if need be) can be the best thing to do. Here in Florida everything is flat and flat, training out of state helped me visualize the reality of flight in regards to “Off airport” emergency landings.
9 for 9! Always looking for the next spot!
9 for 9. Sometimes my instructor likes to point out “that looks like a good place to land if we had an engine failure,” so I prep myself for a mock engine failure. Sometimes I point out spots before she gets to it so that she knows I’m looking also. It’s a good “game” to play
9 FOR 9 Jason - a great video series - Thanks !
9 for 9, never want to use but best to be prepared.
9 for 9! What great information-thank you!
9 for 9, I always look for spots to land. My usual flight goes over water, wear an inflatable life jacket, have retractable gear, would leave it up for water landing
I play the game with my inner bush flyer! I haven’t yet landed on a dirt or grass strip but think about it everything I fly over a flat looking field maybe with a farm road on it.
9 for 9. the recent new intro is awesome
9/9, best instructor in the business
9 for 9 …plenty of farms in NZ to plug into the Game ….but with trees fences powerlines stock slope etc it’s much tougher to find the ideal put down spot
9 for 9 and I also play that game - I recommend folks also consider the weather over the previous days, e.g., if it was raining heavily for the past week (I live in the PNW), is that field a better option over that dirt road? Food for thought.
Thanks for these videos, Jason!
9/9 really good video. So many decisions to make, having to decide the best in an emergency is hard but key. I play the best place to land game allllll the time. Thanks Jason!!!!
Catching up after the weekend.
9 for 9! Thanks! MZeroA!
9/9 my instructor always puts this in out thinking when we fly, and now anytime I'm up with other pilots I always think the same . Thank you for the amazing videos MzeroA team!!!!
9 for 9 - Great data! Thanks for the insights!
9:9!!!!! Loving this content
9 for 9. good stuff Jason.
Do you know what dramatically decreases the chances of severe injury and dramatically decreases the odds of death??? The Cirrus style plane parachute.
It’s been out for a very long time now and there are lots of real world incidents and thus lots of data that supports this. There is a great extensive video on CZcams on this that analyzes the track record of the parachute in great detail.
I personally don’t fly a Cirrus, but I will say that it would definitely make me feel a whole lot better about having to make an emergency landing in water or in the trees, and it would give me a lot more confidence to fly at night.
9 for 9. All caught up. Enjoyed every video.
9 for 9. Terrific summary analysis. I’m always playing the game. My G1000 has a “nearest” feature that you can keep displayed and watch your nearest airports change inflight.
9 for 9 - Great information!
9/9. Thanks Jason for the great insights that you are providing!
9 for 9. Jason, you did a great job making this a facts/data based discussion…thank you. Would you please speak a bit more (in future?) about landing gear up or gear down for those with retracts. Not me (yet), but I’ve seen research that says better to keep gear up in nearly all situations. How do (would) you teach.
The airplane flying handbook has a good section on this that you may want to check out if you haven't already! Chapter 18 www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/airplane_handbook/19_afh_ch18.pdf
This one was my favorite so far in 2024. Another thing I heard regarding trees was to watch for the lightest green areas (newest growth and softest) to aim at. I don’t know if it’s true and I sure hope I never find out. Thanks for these videos.
Could be true. The goal is soft trees
9 for 9! Thank you! Great information
9 for 9. Excellent video and good statistical information. Thanks!
9 for 9!!! Always great videos!!
9 for 9. Good advice for take off the shoes.
9/9. Missed a coupla',days - catching up now. This was a really good one.
Niner for niner. I always look for landing spots especially when changing something with the engine ei leaning the mixture, or switching fuel tanks etc
9 for 9. Thanks for this Jason
10/10. You bet I'll commit to the full practice next chance I get. We have several small fields here that would be suitable and are lightly used. Looking for your book now, Jason.
9 of 9. Good advice… hopefully will never need to use it. 😊
9 4 9 - Great information and a reminder of a valuable way to use the view from above.. Find the place to go .. down below
9/9. Great videos. Since most of my flying was in the plains states (KS, OK, NE) I looked mostly for open fields of which there were plenty.
9 for 9, had to catch up on the last 2 videos
Thank you Jason!
Great hearing the data, some of it is surprising.
9 for 9 another great video with some facts. Thank you!
9-9. thanks for the content and all the work that goes into it- in the plane and behind the cameras
9 for 9 loving the information
Wonderful data and discussion! Thank you!
9 for 9, Thanks Jason
9 for 9. Always looking for a landing location on every flight.
I know a 210 pilot that had an engine out and landed on the road. He said that it was all just fine until he hit a stop sign which spun the plane around - and ended up totaling it…
#9. Lot to consider,
GREAT conversation. Thank you.