Prototype CZ-38 Trials Rifle
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- čas přidán 15. 06. 2024
- / forgottenweapons
Like most other nations with modern military forces. Czechoslovakia was interested in developing a semiautomatic infantry rifle in the 1920s and 1930s. The most successful such rifle to come out of Czech factory during this time was The ZH-29, but it did have competition. A major series of trials was held in 1937 and 1938, and the CZ entrant was this Model 38 rifle.
It uses a tilting bolt with many similarities to the ZB-26 light machine gun and ZH-29 rifle, along with a short stroke gas piston. Interestingly, its charging handle is designed to mimic the manual of arms of the then-standard Mauser bolt action rifles - the handle must be rotated 90 degrees up before pulling the bolt back, and then rotated back down before firing. The CZ model 38 also used a fixed 10-round magazine fed by stripper clips instead of a detachable box magazine.
The model 38 apparently did not do well in the adverse conditions testing. None of the other rifles in the trial were good enough to be judged adequate, though, and more development and trial continued afterwards. The rifle ultimately chosen used an annular gas piston, but was never put into production because of World War II. That design would reappear after the war and lead to the vz.52 rifle.
Related videos on the ZH-29:
• Ethiopian ZH-29 and Cz...
• Japanese ZH-29 Copy by...
• ZH-29 Semiauto Rifle
• Czech ZH29 early semia...
And the CZ Model S, a 1929 prototype in the same series of trials:
• CZ Model S Prototype (...
/ forgottenweapons
Hello there, i would like to add a few things....
As was said CZ - 38 never got adopted, but development didnt stop with it. It continued to first months of 1939 where in what was left of czechoslovakia after the Munich agreement. New wave of testing started in january of said year and on 13th of march, two days before ocupation started a comision was held, which decided that "puška vz. 39" would be adopted. ("puška" translates to "rifle". "vz." on czech weapons always stands for "vzor" and that translates to "pattern" and stands for designation, like "Mk").
This design far simplified the one of the CZ - 38. Visualy they were almost identical, general features too, like the build-in magazine, bolt actionish handle. Changes were done to iner mechanism, so it would be more dependable in harsh enviroment and the gas piston.
By the way, fun fact: Did you know the word "pistol" is arguabely and most likely of czech origin? Its derived from the word "píšťala", czech word for "flute". This word was used as a sort of nickname for guns deployed by Husits in 1420s, who were the first army to deploy gunpowder arsenal on a large scale. "Píšťala" then went troungh tongues of french, germans and italians, eventualy becoming "pistol".
Anyway, i really enjoed your video, keep up the good work :)
It never ceases to amaze me how beautiful these interwar Czech guns are. This weird prototype rifle has a better fit and finish than many production rifle's!
I never click faster than when it's a prototype Czech rifle
Maybe a Swiss prototype? :-D
It heats my patriotic hearth. :-) I know, most of them are silly and overengineered but so interesting. :-D
PS: My patriotic hearth also feels that it might made difference if We had goddamned M. Kalaschnikov instead of all those clever designers and their pretty and expensive weapons. :-D
Yeah, Swiss engineers and their clockwork designs. :-D
***** I wonder if Kalashnikov worked with the Czech designers, what would they come up with? I bet it'd be amazing
I wonder what would be the result if Eugene Stoner and Jiří Čermák (the lead designer on the project Broomstick, vzor 58) collaborated. I reckon something extremely sleek.
The sound of that buttery-smooth interfacing on all those precision machines and polished parts.
Man that thing does look like an absolute beast to manufacture, but from an aesthetic standpoint I think it looks seriously awesome.
I'm always greatly relieved to see that you got the gun back together at the end!!
Ｃ Ｚ Ｅ Ｃ Ｈ Ｎ Ｏ Ｌ Ｏ Ｇ Ｙ
C Z E C H M A T E
Interesting to see some features retained in the Vz 52. Great video as always!
greetings from Czech republic :)
More of those. ;-)
Czech's really know guns just in general.
Probably my favorite country in terms of firearms development, and quality.
-Cz Fanboy
Same. I for one long to own a Model S prototype
They are nice but I personally prefer German guns.
And We made them too. :-D At least for some time and I'm sure that people here weren't really that happy to manufacture them for Reich.
In 1940 1/3 of Hitlers tanks were Czech made.
ZK 420 is my favorite Czech rifle!
Very cool rifle! I love all the intricate parts & details. Stuff was just made top notch back in those days.
So do you want a bolt action stripper clip fed rifle or magazine fed semi-aouto rifle?
Czechs: Yes
Well, I mean, the German G41 rifle was developed with the same criteria by the Mauser and the Walther companies as 2 competing designs. The Mauser company followed these criteria but didn't get accepted because it was too clunky and expensive. While the Walther company completely ignored the criteria and got accepted for service
I know its not this weapon. But I owned a VZ 52/57 in 7.62x 39. OMG if you ever get a chance to look at one do so. Precision precise beautiful machining
They didn´t trial it, they *czech*'d it out :)
13:44 If the gun has at least one 'this thing' in it, you can pretty safely assume failure at the trials. :)
Read about the Czech pre-war trials in one of my books just now and wondered if Ian had a video about the rifle that almost got adopted (well, the ČZ-39, a more refined version of this) before the war.
And, of course, he does. I love this channel. But how did I miss that rifle until now?
watching your videos I really see where the sks got alot of design cues from.
When you said hot mess, I thought it was going to be a painful strip down, but actually is was not bad at all. Seems to break down well, and seems to be well fitted. I guess you mean hot manufacturing mess. That gas block requires like 5 different milling sequences, haha.
This is sort of random, Ian, but I have a suggestion. Start using a white pen - er, Universal Disassembly Tool - so when you're using it to point at something specific in the insides of a piece like you did in this video, its much easier to tell what you're actually pointing at.
Like I said, a random little thing, but it might be a random little improvement that people never really notice. Or it could just be a total waste of time. :p
Or a toothpick, or a skewer or something as a pointer. I second the motion.
I'd like to see you reassemble it...
Great video, but there was one thing I think you didn't mention: how does the charging handle lock top cover and bolt carrier together
from what i can tell, the charging handle extends a little bit through the cover and that extra bit will fit into a slot in either the receiver or bolt carrier depending on if it is up or down, like a simple dovetail joint.
Complicated but kind of cool in a certain way
Is the red(ish) finish on the metal of these (and especially the zh-29s) something caused by aging? Or is that a type of blueing that can be done? It looks beautiful
Hey Ian I have some quick questions I've always wanted to know, and since you and your dad are experts on Japanese firearms:
Did the Japanese create Paratrooper versions of the Type 38 and 99, or only the 99, also what type of bullet was used to fire the type 2 rifle grenade launcher? the blank cartridge or the wooden bullet?
What was the standard type of ammunition used by the 38 and 99? rimmed, rimless or semi-rimmed? and was the standard ammo type fmj? and did they have AP or tracer rounds with the 38 and 99?
I have never seen so many machined parts in one gun. The front gas port alone has as much machining as some entire rifles
+turbostewi And the Mauser "Broomhandle"too.
See... "Push Button, Remove Magazine" ... They had ALL THE TECH to have a Detachable Box Magazine and they DIDN'T FRECKING DO IT! >.
Detachable magazines are not necessarily the right answer. Fixed mags are much less bulky to carry ammo for (stripper clips), don't get damaged and cause feeding problems, and don't leave a big hole in the bottom of the gun for dirt to get into. In the 1920s and 30s, there were potentially compelling reasons not to have detachable mags.
Cost was also an issue as well. Cheaper to give soldiers ammo on disposable clips rather than in expensive magazines.
pros and cons to everything, i guess
13:30 Dear Lord...
Nice one lol
I would love to have one
Over enginered but hell of fieldstrip:-))
do you sell universal disassembly tools on your website?
No, but I should.
i like that gun
Wicked cool
That beautiful, gorgeous bluing AAHHHHH
Hi!
Very well put: good Lord!...
6:36 imagine CZ 38 thumb
6:10 or 6:22 ish... does that mean the first shot is from an open bolt?
No. The first trigger pull closes the bolt. It fires the second time the trigger is pulled.
SOUND OFF LIKE YOU'VE GOT A PAIR!
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH
ヨーロッパで一番 自動小銃を
作っていたのはチェコだったんだね
知らなかった私はそんなチェコが
素晴らしく思えてしまう
the rifle is still in good condition for being a milsurp rifle.
Four sling swivels?
cavalry/vehicle vs infantry
that's... Jesus idk what that is. if my country handed me one of these id start to reconsider a few things
Visually, kinda makes me think of an SKS.
It looks more like SVT40
*LEGIT QUESTION*
IF 3D printing (whatever type, or a new type like 3D auto-molecular assembly) ever creates a material strong enough to duplicate modern steel & aluminum alloys, do you ever see complicated (to machine) military service firearms becoming popular... or will the requirements of battlefield service always outweigh the ability to produce cheap but complicated firearms?
if "no", then:
the follow up question ... todays firearms often have complicated trigger packs ... far too complicated to service in the battlefield environment (actually too complicated to service even on a friendly baseball field.. ),but anyways.. could you see the complicated bits of a military firearms in question being contained in skeletonised "packs" that can be taken out, sprayed with WD-40 and re-inserted
i takes ages to 3d print something from plastic.....imagine the time for 3d metal "printing"...its still faster to mill the thing out. for now at least...
Rather than 3D printing, I would see the future in CNC cutting the parts, with robotized lines, idealy those lines which can cooperate with humans. Nowaday you do not need 2 million guns in 2 years. Armies are smaller, profesionaly trained elite, so you can afford to spend a bit more to equip single soldier.
if this rifle is so expensive and difficult to produce, why they even bothered submitting it to trials, or spend money on research?
Many designs start out complex and then are simplified once testing shows what elements of the design are good and which ones need to be discarded.
Also pretty much all semi auto rifles of this era were intricate and expensive to produce simply due to the fact that it was still very much "new tech" and nobody really knew exactly what they needed to do to achieve a functional rifle. Even 90+ years later some companies and designers still can't put together a reliable firearm.
+Zed X-R so i suppose the tokarev and the garand were cheap enough to be adopted.. would be interesting to know their prices at the time
RealHogweed According to Wikipedia the M1 cost $85 per unit in WWII. The CPI inflation calculator says that $85 in 1943 would be $1,182 today.
Czechoslovakia had many great inventors and designers but idea of semiautomatic rifle was quite new during that time and they tried to come with something that felt "right" for soldiers used to bolt action rifles yet semi-auto in effect. Czechoslovakia used to be quite rich and industrialised country so price wasn't primary measure of a weapon. We didn't have that large military so they wanted them really well prepared for conflict and We already spent so much money for static fortification that manufacturers thought that it might just work for them and turn some profit for "perfect" rifle.
It didn't work because We became part of Reich afterall and all that fortification was quite useless. We spent unbelievable amount of money to prepare for last war under influence of officiers who spent their time in France and visited mighty Maginot line and effects of trench warfare. Those fortifications are amazing and I love to visit many of them quite often but it was quest for Sysifos himself to make impenetrable wall AROUND THE MIDDLE of damned Europe. :-D
With your extensive knowledge of firearm design, have you ever thought to try and do some designing of your own?
What a beautiful mess of a rifle.
I'm tired of all these tilting bolts, like they didn't know any better. There is no advantage whatsoever for the tilting bolt against the rotating one, on the contrary, you have asymmetrical locking and need a strong, milled receiver for the bolt to lock against, making the rifle heavier and more costly. The tilting bolt would have made sense for a hypothetical black powder self-loading rifle to keep the locking area as far away from the breech as possible and avoid fouling, but in the smokeless powder era fouling isn't such a problem. The rotating bolt was well known and established since the Mondragon rifle and the highly successful Lewis gun, so I really can't understand this stubbornness in using an inferior system.
This gun is way too overly built.
It's amazing that people figured out the whole system for a semi auto so early but couldn't figure out how to simplify and produce a semi automatic design cheaply until around and after world war 2.
Was it because of the materials available during that period of time which made it difficult to get parts to the right tolerances of durability?
What a horrible thing - Was it trials to arm rocket scientists ?
Horrible weapon. Would have been a total cow to strip and clean in the field and a ten round fixed mag.. Pointless.
Yes, can you imagine one country even went with an 8-round fixed magazine? /sarc
A 10-round fixed magazine was the par for that era.
You have to understand the context of when this rifle was made and for what reason. Most countries were going for 5-10 round fixed mags in their semi auto battle rifles during the early 1930s-40s , and this is a prototype as in it's not meant to be the final iteration. Kinda a proof of concept type deal. Many countries were experimenting with these semi-auto's that doubled as a bolt action rifle at the time. Was a dumb but in hindsight it was thought as a good idea.