7AGE - Dyno tested pt1
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- čas přidán 10. 09. 2024
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Test engine spec:
7afe bottom end 1800cc
Pauter rods
JE pistons
Smallport head - mild work?
kelford cams - eycrometer says 9mm lift 270-280 advertised
shimless buckets & aftermarket springs
stock 7afe flywheel
G4A Headers and exhaust
G4A ITB's 52mm
I may have put the cam belt back on a tooth out on the crank. hence the big cam timing adjustment. 7a / 4a combo doesn't line up with the timing marks properly, so can go a tooth either way and adjust with the cam gears. soo the engine would have likely been around the same cam timing as it now, when was previously running. kinda waste of my time setting it up with a dial wheel and the likes, when have a dyno and no cam card. Another good example of cam timing either way. stay tuned have a a few more vids to come with this engine. attempting to make it less tractor spec
A cam card is easy to make, but I get it. I do both, but tuning alone really enough IF done right.
@@nobodynoone2500 Yep. I would adjust the cam timing on the dyno anyway, regardless if its been dialed in or not.
I was kinda disappointed with this engine. I often wanted to build a 1800cc 7age. Hope it has loads more potential.
@@jonnyretro2235 will only make as much as the head and cams allow. the bolt on parts used here obviously arent an issue. The main aim of this series, is to show if or when should use the 1800 bottom end. Will be more direct comparisons coming in the next videos
Basically trial and error with this engine
Finally a 7age content. Looks like it has a lot of room to grow. I wonder what gains bigger cams would have.
cam swap will be next
- Its just 3AU?
- Yeah, its stok, officer 😉
I just think the 4AGE engine has a big advantage over the 7A, and this advantage turns around the stroke. A big stroke engine (85.5mm on this case vs 78mm in the 4A ) will always have more torque at low-mid range but also will cause more looses due to friction and inertias near the top end, which translates in all the power graphic being displaced to the left. So in the 7A, if we need to overcome the inertial/friction looses on high rpm, the only way would be to improve the air flow in the head to increase so the cylinder filling and/or lighten rods and pistons/use longer rods etc, but I'm afraid there is not much room for that since your 'good' 4AGE heads are near to the maximum limit of improvement. I cannot wait for the next videos to see what differences you achieve by changing the cams/mapping. Sorry for my @#%! english lol
Love these engines, they are very popular here in South Africa, usually with big turbos strapped on to them.They make really decent horsepower and are solid and reliable...
Maybe if you combine two turds, the 7A block and a 20v head. You will create some sort of megaturd, that not even a master plumber could manage to flush?
Oh wow, the Megaturd. That would likely be harder to flush than a 3au. something a can of gold paint wouldn't fix that's for sure
I would love to beat the sh!T out of a megaTurd!
Good enough to place 3rd in the D1NZ series 2007 season tho.
Strong motor but wrong motor.
4A all the way!
Love your video style. Short and sweet from a passionate tuner. No gibbering on about nothing. Keep up the good work 👍
Good video to show that all the work done for 7age and the power figures you can expect to see compared to rebuild of 4age engine, good video, motor sounds great.
I have a rusted out AE102 wagon with a 7AFE. I dream of having a setup like this in it. Stock 7AFE still makes decent power though! I’ve played around with the idea of polishing the head.
Thank for good videos, always learning
Heyyy. Nice content, man. Dunno if u remember me asking for this content, but you really made my day with this one. Keep postin.
Awesome videos man. Hopefully I’ll be building my own 4age sometime soon for my ae86. I’ll be coming back here for as much info as I can hoover up when I do.
Nice. Love all your content, but have a soft spot for toyota and honda tuning.
Great to see how relevant "old school" tuning is today.
I love garage 4age
Love the video. Big problem here in the states is the lack of availability of decent blocks compared to decent heads. Makes the 1.8 block a lot more appealing as it is so much easier to get your hands on. Parts availability these days makes me wanna just throw my hands up and drop a 2AR or a 1zz in everything...
i love how the "turd" not only makes more power at the same rpm, but also keep going higher (also, i don't understand how a 4A making over 100hp/L is considered a "turd"; i'd consider that to be good, even if the good engine is way better)
@@carstennobody7047 what i'm saying is that i wouldn't call the "turd" 4A-GE a turd because it makes good power for what it is. And that a the same RPM where the 7A makes peak power, the 4A is already making more power, but it continues to climb.
Idk what you think i don't understand, i know that both 4A engines have way better flow and rev higher. I didn't say i don't understand how it makes that power, just that i don't understand why he calls it a "turd" if it makes good power
@@carstennobody7047 what? The 7A makes 155hp with 1.8L of displacement, that's 86hp/L. I was talking about the "turd" 4A.
I don't think you even understand what i'm saying
@@carstennobody7047 i'm talking about how they are now, and comparing the power they make (in the config that it has in this video).
And i also commented (totally separate from that), that i don't understand how a 4A-GE making over 100hp/L is considered a "turd", even if it's worse compared to the good 4A-GE.
@@carstennobody7047 i'm not talking about hp/L as an absolute in every engine. I'm saying that for a NA 4A-GE (a sporty but not very high end engine from 1983), over 100hp/L (107hp/L in this case) is a good power level. It's not the highest that it can get (proven by the good engine, or racing 4A-GE engines), but i'm just saying that i wouldn't call it a turd.
Sure, i could get a honda K series and get it to 200hp/L NA, or 400hp/L with a turbo. So what? That has nothing to do with what i commented.
100hp/L is not gone. Just because some engines make over that, doesn't mean that it's over. Most engines still make less than that, some turbo ones too, and even some NA engines in sports cars make less than 100hp/L .
Properly set up it wont be bad, but can't say I ever liked the 7a's, still keeping a buck on the 4a.
Hey man. Curious to know if you have considered exploring the 2AR engine. Gears and gasoline did a swap into a w30 mr2 with pretty amazing power with minimal mods. Interested to see if its the way forward for fans of the 4 pot Toyota engine
Frankenstein Mark have done some excellent pioneering work on the 2ARs for racing, though as i understood it its a pretty tall engine, not super easy to fit in small cars. But the bang for the buck is very good in that setup.
I believe nixspeed racing makes a bunch of aftermarket for those motors and have done a swap on eith an aw, or sw20 aswell i think it would be cool
I think the big port heads might be a better match for the 7A bottom end than small ports, since each port has to deal with roughly an extra 50cc of displacement, especially as it gets into higher rpm the port might be a better match with the correct cams of course. From what I understand 7A needs a big cam to rev as high as a 4A.
bigport head flowing more isn't really a thing.
The bigport tvis head is more for boost applications NA the smallport head is better and more superior due to its head flow design
Big port 7age? Juuuuuuuunnnnnnnnnnnnnnk
@@brentdaniels-wb9xs cams aside. boost or no boost doesnt matter that much, if it works better na will work better turbo. There isn't much in it when talking stock heads. They all need to be modified to make decent power. I haven't had any na 4age with a stock head, no matter how big the cams are. make it past 120kw on my dyno. bigport, smallport or 20v.
Absolutely astonishing
So im assuming that it doenst make more power up top due to cams and stuff like that?
Saying this, i have a 7age with 262° cams and i can feel this type of powerband by just driving arround. Strong mid range but falls alot on top.
Super anxious for the next videos! 😁
yep, this video has basically singled out the head, cams or the bottom end itself (unlikely) or all 3, being the power limiter. since the bolt ons have supported 50kw more. stay tuned the next videos will show the issue.
@@Garage4age got it 👌 I will thank you 🫡
Well, that's pretty strong for a 3AU... Oh, wait... :P
Another good reference. :) I'll be on standby for the next parts of this series.
Thanks!
Excited to see what it does with cams. It will probably match the "turd".
Hell yea at last .thank you
Those beautiful headers
Some honk off her lad, sounds like a fairly strong motor.
that exhaust adjustment really seems to beef up the mid range power.
Nice
The comparison to the Turd engine is along the lines of what you expect, more torque and less revs. But I forget how stout the good engine is, barely any trade-off there!
What would be the major limits of trying to spin the 7A up to the same power?
The turd comparison will be more important in the coming videos. the good engine is super unfair comparison. Kinda the same reason i didn't compare to the vvti turd engine. it actually makes a touch more bottom end than the 7a, ignoring 2500rpm and below.
limits of getting the 7a up there rpm wise = your teeth rattling out. end of the day power wise its limited by what the head and bolt on's will do. its pretty clear its either the head or cams at this stage. (I know what it is already) 7a is always going to drag the power down the curve, since demanding more airflow. but it needs to since will fly to bits before a 4a built the same way. I'd rather just rev a 4a more, hence why never bothered with 7a
Thanks
👍
Toyota second place in Hypercars category, today at Le Mans.
LOL, I'm 10 degrees out on the inlet port too apparently. I'm sitting here wondering why the power figure was so low, turns out it was in Kilawasps XD
I have a 5AGZE (HKS crank custom pistons, carrillo rods with 19mm pin big valves). the results have been disappointing but I never did finished the project.
lol those previous holes in torque are now bumps. this will definitly be very noticable.
car's looking mint bro. curious why the small port, is it just because you already had that head? i have an ae112 and been looking into the MRP 9age kit with 20v head and all the trimmings but i don't know shit about these small displacement toyota motors . 7age seems like not enough extra beans to me considering the cost . i reckon could get a k20 in there for about the same price with some fab work. anywho enough rambling, best of luck with your cam fiddling and look fwd to seeing it all sorted, subscribed 🙂
this engine already had the smallport head on it. i replied to your other question re the head differences. If sticking with the 4age platform spend the money on head work and bolt ons. imo if you want something around the 2L mark, yes swap to something with a bigger bore which will naturally have more valve area to support the capacity
Hell yeah
So is this a 7afe with a stroker kit? Or just 7afe 1800cc?
Great content i love the videos. Hope to get you to dyno my car if i ever finish it
It was a 7afe with aftermarket rods. and aftermarket pistons to suit 4age head. stock 7a crank. so 1800cc. more details in description
Next level 9a-ge? 😊
Hah, it already revs like a tractor 1800cc let alone 1900cc
Hey man, I'm actually in the process of building a 7age 20v and want to get some headwork done and eventually cams but if it's. It worth it I'd rather buy another 4age sub assembly and rebuild my 20v,i have 2 bum head bolt threads and I keep blowing gaskets, can my 4age block be saved?? I'm torn now
Imo if chasing power, 7a not worth it unless do some good head work and cams. So in most cases you'd be better off spending the money on the head and keeping 4a bottom end
Love the comparison sheets at the end! Could we get the honda overlay next time as well so we can see how the engines differ?
the 4a is only 2/3'ds the size of k24. so kinda unfair to directly compare. but power per L the 7a is a decent amount behind the honda. turd a bit ahead. the good engine lots ahead garage4ag.files.wordpress.com/2023/06/last-v-good-v-honda.png - honda brown. 7a black. good engine 4a green
@@Garage4age exactly what I wanted to see! Thanks
Great video as always!
I wanted to ask you, how are you getting the crankshaft position?
Are you getting the camshaft position?
Are you running fully sequential ignition and injection?
has multi tooth crank trigger and single tooth on the cam gear. all sequential
@@Garage4age Hi, thanks for the response
Are you using an aftermarket kit? Or did you modified something? Thanks in advance
@@alejandroguillen1672 i run my own setup. some pictures of it on my instagram
Did they put any modifications into the crankshaft. I heared since the flywheel has 6 bolts that the flywheel needs pins or it could break of on high rpm
is stock. I used arp flywheel bolts when putting it back together
Juuuuuuuuuuuunk
Are you going to fully develop this engine like the GT?
I'd be interested in seeing the effect of the regular plenum. The extra stroke means the piston travels faster than the 4A at any given engine speed - which makes for a more sucky motor. This might interact better / differently with the plenum compared to ITBs.
goal is to head towards a more direct comparison to the gold turd engine. but also show current limiting factors along the way
Any chance we could see some 3sge/3sgte tuning on the channel, Also do u do customer car tuning or is this all just personal / for youtube
Only if someone gives me one to play with. These videos cost me more than what they make. so hard to justify buying stuff for content. I do a limited amount of tuning jobs
Engine appears to run out of breath after 6,000rpm according to the uncorrected dyno graph
Such a shame its not a 4wd dyno... I would love to put my Caldina gt4 on there
Tuyệt ❤
whats the difference from a 4age?
Should make more 7age videos. 7age has a little more power then 4age so just add a little thing then check the figures you’ll be surprised
If you watch the video you will
Actually notice the 4age has more power then the 7age
#7agejuuuuuuunnnnnnk
nowa 2zz crank and 2.1l frenkenstein
Beams!!
What about a big port?
big port head wont make much difference. either will have to be aggressively modified to work with bigger capacity
Is there a 7AGZE in your future?
hopefully not 😂
@@Garage4age 7a bottom end, 20v head, sc12 and megasquirt. Living the dream
Needs a lot more cam and head work, its just laying over so soon
yep
Omgomgomgomg
Do I want my 4age revs or more "torque "? Hmm
Bring back the k series! 😂
These engines react well to forced abuse. They need to be built first to handle abuse heat, oil and holding parts to hold the head to the block. Then, pimp slapped hard by an aggressive turbo. 7age wants daddy issues!, and it wants the trama and physical abuse to make power 😅
6500 max hp cruiser cams
my brothers td42 almost revs as hard 😂
@@Garage4age actaully u might be the guy to ask td05 on a td42 GU over standard is it worth
Hi, why retard exhaust cam but not to advance I f?
if you gain power both ends of the curve, or gain without a loss at other end. means the cam timing is way off and need to keep going in same direction. both cams were too far advanced in this case.
Can you drop a link to the drift vid? It looks like he hits it with a fair bit of inertia
czcams.com/video/2Pcs16EYJXQ/video.html
@@Garage4age thanks m8 that's the kinda drifting I like to see