What's a CABBAGE Car??
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- čas přidán 7. 09. 2024
- You may have seen one of these converted workhorses on the front of an Amtrak train, but they're not what they seem.
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In the UK we have used them for decades but call them DVT (driving van trailers) and they normally are custom built rather than a gutted locomotive and work with electric locomotives.
Normally, yes, though there were the redundant class 43 HST power cars that were converted to DVT service in the early days of East Coast Main Line electrification.
I saw one of these on a long distance train
@@beeble2003 Those were not DVTs. The engine was left in place and the only change was the fitting of buffers. Once the Mk IV DVTs were built, the power cars returned to normal HST use. Some are still in used today and can be easily identified by having normal buffers on the front instead of the moulded cowling.
@@davidfarrow875 I didn't realise they'd been put back to use as power cars. But, still, in what sense were they "not DVTs"? They were run unpowered and used only to control the electric locomotive at the other end of the train.
@@beeble2003 The Class 91 provided the power for the train but the engine was running on the Class 43 and provided power for some of the electrical systems on the train itself. They were referred to as Surrogate DVTs because they were not 'Trailers' in the true sense of the word. Eight Class 43s were converted for the job (43 013/14/65/67/68/80/84, 123), with the first two later being sold to Nework Rail for use on the NMT. The other six went via Virgin Trains to Grand Central for their services from London to the North East and are now owned by a company called Rail Adventure, though I don't know what they are using them for.
You have to Love the Cabbage Car. It obviously doesn’t make a lot of sense to Move Units around. Time is 💰
The Amtrak Downeaster which runs between Maine and Boston runs a Cabbage Car on the south end of the consist.
I love Amtrak and also nice video about Amtrak!
This channel is a gem!
Awesome I learned a lot And the Sacramento Southern Railroad has one of Amtraks old F40PH’s I also showed my friend he learned so much new stuff
We used to see the Amtrak Cabbage's all the time here in Wisconsin on the Amtrak Hiawatha trains
That was a lot of cool info! I had not heard of these non-engines before. Thanx man. Keep up the cool stuff.
I learn something every day. Thanks
Thanks for watching!
"Siemens" is actually pronounced "zee-muhns." The "s" makes a "z" sound in German.
In the German language, yes. But in English it's pronounced with an S. I deal with Siemens techs all the time on the ACS-64's. Nobody who answers in any of their offices for parts and tech support ever says "Zee-muhns"
makes sense, make you really can’t mispronounce it
The same argument is said about Kato (Kay-toe) and should be pronounced Kaa-toe.
There are 3 Amtrak F40PH’s in Preservation 231 being restored by Dynarail at the Nevada state railroad museum, Amtrak 281 at the California State Railroad Museum, and Amtrak 307 being restored and in Preservation At the North Carolina Transportation Museum
NPCU 406 has since been renumbered to 90406 to make room for the Siemens Charger units. But other than that it still has its HEP generator. The only other NPCUs that don’t have roll up doors are some of the Cascades units and all Piedmont NPCUs.
I live in Illinois, and we have the Hiawatha route that runs up to Milwaukee. This line sees a lot of npcu’s along with a lot of Siemens chargers
I caught 90278 at Martinez Ca, a couple weeks ago
NPCUs make for rough handling trains. Though more durable in a crash than a cab car, their dead weight makes for sloppy train handling when running from them. And some equipment, like the Piedmont sets in North Carolina require the brakes to be fully released for the engine to load. So you can't power brake or "shove yourself" to a stop with those sets. Meaning every time you depart a station you have to release the automatic and wait for the slack to run in or out _before_ you can start notching that thing out.
My favorite Amtrak F40'S are units 404 and 369 which were sold to LTEX in McDonald Ohio.
I miss seeing the single leveled Surfliner sets here in SoCal. This just make me nostalgic for them
The F59PH's in North Carolina. Actually aren't NPCUs. They're actually just used on the back of trains because they don't have cab cars so it's an engine on each end
Great explanation video👍
Awesome video
Fun Fact: An NPCU with HEP (Head end Power) is called an APCU
Nice video!
Very interesting! Another excellent video! Cheers, Bob
Thanks!
Interestingly, Amtrak did not convert that many F40PH's into these "cabbage" cars. I think the age of the F40PH itself is mitigating against long-term usage.
Age has nothing to do with it. They simply made the amount of NPCU's they needed and sold off the F40's they didn't need. There are not that many locations that need them.
Not to be a nerd, yet kind of being one. The cars known as Cabcars were actually added to reduce operating costs.
Caltrans also owns 2 dash 8’s
Sadly they don’t appear to be in service anymore
I actually have an HO Scale model of one of them!
@@v12productions yes I’ve watch you HO scale videos as a child
@@NC_YT_123 Caltrans still have the GE Dash 8 locos, only one is still active and currently assigned to switch duties in Oakland CA,the other is stored due to mechanical or EPA/CARB emission standards.
@@nanoweber250 I think 2052 ether is or will be retired unfortunately
very interesting video i caught amtrak 90213 yesterday
Amtrak guy 365 made made this unit photo in P30Ch
We have those in the UK. We call them DVT's or Driving Van Trailers. basically the same principle.
Now the Genesis locomotives are getting replaced themselves with Siemens Chargers.
Well technically they still are f40s with no engine so technically there are still F40s around
Then from this logic, they are not F40PH models, they would become DF40 units - Dummy Full body 40 series.
The Chargers are replacing the P42s which replaced the f40s
How ironic
a car that carries cabbages, duh?
Riding in a train from Martinez to Sacramento, with the locomotive in back pushing and a cab unit in front is damn scary. I always sat near the middle of the train, so if there is a head-on, maybe I’m safe. Riding in one of those trains is scarier than flying.
Why is it scary?
This video made me realize that Amtrak should convert a few P42's into Cabbage units too, though I'm sure it probably wouldn't be as easy as it was for the F40's. That would be neat.
Since the Genesis are unibody instead of body-on-frame they probably wouldn't be able to cut the holes in the sides for the baggage shutters.
@@apolofeve That's why I said it probably wouldn't be as easy.
The problem with the P40 and P42 models is the car body. The car body is a single piece mono design and any modifying would collapse its structural strength.
Great video w information I'd never heard before, thank you. I do have a followup question that maybe you could address at some point; why were no US locomotive manufacturers uninterested in competing for the Amtrak passenger locomotive replacement? Why did Siemens win? Yes, I think I understand the Siemens Chargers are manufactured in the US but what happened to Progress Rail and Wabtec, uninterested?
Thanks for watching! I think that's a great question that would be worth exploring.
Progress Rail’s F125 was a monumental failure off the line, so that was a non-option for Amtrak. The F125s are much better now, but it shouldn’t take five whole years to fix issues that never should have happened in the first place.
GE publicly stated that they had zero interest in producing a new passenger locomotive. Why? Nobody knows, but it may have something to do with how poorly the MPI/Wabtec/GE HSP-46s came out.
I always called those cabbage cars “NPCs”.
Good thing they didn't consider scrapping those F40PH and reusing them....
3:35 - I suppose there's a locomotive NCPU #90210 out there somewhere.
No there isn't.
@@REDACTED4503 Pity.
What's that in the control? An NPCU. A non-playing character unit is making a difference IRL!
Awesome 👌 👏 👍
Cab baggage car, "cabbage car"
Interesting!
0:12
Do you know where that picture of the wye was from by any chance?
Nj transit has Cab cars and Metro North
I thought some cabagecar still had the traction motors and restors they filled the fuel tank with concrete and put a thick steal flour in. the motor and restors were for dymica breck the weight was to make them track better and be safer in a reck
There are no cabbage cars with traction motors. To have Dynamic braking you need an Engine. Even slugs that are capable of dynamic braking are drawing the power from another loco.
@@FFred-us9tw dynamic brakes can use a traction motor to act as a genarty dumping the power in into restors to brake and disconted in run
@@blainemilliron3870 yes, I use Dynamic braking daily. But in order for dynamic braking to work the traction motors need an electrical field which can only be created by a locomotives prime mover (the Diesel engine itself). Since a cab car has no prime mover it cannot have dynamic brakes.
Why would we put flour in a locomotive? It would ruin the gears and motor.
@@crsrdash-840b5 please excuse the misspelling the bottom deck ok
Cal Train Change
The thumbnail is funny
Love it
What’s the fuel tank for? Which is left on the NPCUs? How come 406 was not rebuilt as a normal F40PH then
No reason to remove the fuel tank. It's added weight. And the 406's fuel tank is used for the HEP generator it has on board. They didn't rebuild the 406 with an engine because they don't need it.
Woof! Pawsome
I wonder if they have a load of cabbages in them 🍴
Itsit's kinda sad you can't just straight up do a wye tribe around in model railroading, you can't because it switches the current from one rail to the other, but I like wye turnarounds, so itsit's kinda sad you can't do it in model railroads.
You can with three-rail, and I'm pretty sure there are work-arounds for two-rail as well. There are lots of two-rail tram layouts with loops that also reverse the current side, and they work somehow. It might be a little tricky, but it should be possible.
It might also be possible with systems that use overhead wire with pantographs for electrical pickup, but they're not as common as the typical and simpler electrified two rail systems.
N P C U
(Non-Powered-Control-Unit or basically a cabcar)
What's the date of this filmed and who filmed it?
I recorded it back in 2017.
What was California like? I'm going there this summer I think
Where abouts?
Lots to do all over the state
@@chamelius where the recordings were
It was nice. Not too hot, not too cold. I shot this footage back in 2017. There's lots to do in the Bay Area.
I seen 🥬 cars before.
North American passenger trains looks so inefficient to me as an European. I don’t know why tho…
Politics and money are the main reason we still have slow trains. Even the NEC doesn’t constitute as HSR despite faster trains there than any other place in the US. We unfortunately do not do a great job in infrastructure funding. Even our roads are crumbling, but hopefully the new infrastructure bill that was passed and signed fixes it, but rail would need to see way more in order for it to be truly be fixed, which sadly will likely never will for a while at the least.
I guess you are in California for a few days or something
I was back in 2017. Fun place!
@@v12productions how was the trip to California
Still think that the F40PH look better than the F42 Genesis locomotives, they are almost as ugly as a BL2...
What's a F42?
@@crsrdash-840b5 should read the P42dc (and other's) aka the GE GENESIS Locomotives