4AGE NA build that works on a budget - Bigport 4AGE
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- čas přidán 23. 10. 2021
- Dyno testing Big port 4AGE from stock to modified, intakes, exhausts. headers, heads, camshafts. From the making bigport great again series
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Test engine:
Modified early bigport head
Kelford 193b 9.2/8.5mm 284/278 @ .3mm
Toda valve springs
Toda inlet cam gear
Redtop bigport block with 10.3:1 smallport pistons
Toda 3.7kg flywheel
Maxpeedingrods connecting rods
Link G4 ecu
47mm itb long runner
Garage 4age Header and 3" exhaust - Auta a dopravní prostředky
Haven't been able to film any videos lately for various reasons. So this is all the videos relevant to the bigport engine build up, in one easier to follow video. much like the smallport vid czcams.com/video/CM_xHLRQCdg/video.html But this one has more steps and information.
What about a bike carb/throttle intake?
Seems to get done a fair bit. Never seen dyno results though.
Guys, pay attention to the measuring torque scale. It is completely out of the norm.
Huge effort, well done. IMHO this channel is the best 16v 4AGE tuning reference in existence. Much respect.
That’s actually super interesting! 90 something to 129kw is a massive jump for a 4age!
I’m not sure everyone even appreciates the time it takes to change all those parts around?
I certainly have an idea how much time that takes so THANK YOU!
Such a underrated channel, keep up the awesome detailed/experimental videos bro 👍
Thanks so much boet god bless you for taking up the time to show us these different setups and the gains man
Really helps us 16v lovers in thinking what would be the outcome here and there
If you ever run out of content to do, I'd like to see the results of compression changes? Especially regarding volumetric efficiency, Power and anything else you deemed relevant.
Soo much work involved in this 30min video! Well done, love the cam install gags, and tvis delete lol! Love to see some 20v comparisons
Appreciate all the work you put into these. Best 4age channel hands down.
Thanks for the cam install tips!
Seriously, this is great work👍
It's a realy great work, correct and visual. Thank you!
Great effort!!
Thank you very much for such in deep and explained set ups, and with a dyno run for each step.
Great support and help for the 4age community!!!!
Invaluable data
Those inserts you made for the big port to small port adaptation are mid blowing simply brilliant. You sir are doing gods work for this engine. Keep thinking outsid the box i love your content!
A-MA-ZING!!! What an effort you have put in to all this. The tech nerd in me smiles big time. And the sound then… 🥰
Sterling work there young man. 👌
Definitely the best 4age channel in all of the yootoob lands. 10/10 4age content.
Thanks so much for this! Love these vids!
Also those 193b cams are delicious!
Really awesome effort, looks easy to do what you did, but works involve must be huge!!!
Love ❤️❤️❤️❤️ this channel... Bring it!!!
Bro these videos are so f***ing cool. It makes me want to do so many things.
Great work as always, just ordered some merchy!
Thanks!
Next level NA tuning. Hope you will see next what happens when turbod.
Honestly surprised you gave up almost nothing down low with the larger cams.
great informative video as always
It's all in the intake and exhaust tuning.
The best channel on yt. Addictive! 👍👍👍💪💪💪💪😈😈😈
this got me dreaming about an AW11 na build
just brought one of the hoodys to support the good work 🤙
Cheers man, thanks for the support
Man, she was getting spicy with the upgrades 👌.. You must be some fast with the head removal now if you weren't before hahaha!
Haha, Yeah lucky it all comes apart pretty easy
Yeah can't beat the old Toyota's for simplicity, I have a 1992 hilux with the 22re, 345,000km on it now, I fell in love 10 years ago and haven't looked back.
I just bought a big port head this weekend. So stoked to find out it's an early head.
Nice. is it missing the 2 m8 threaded holes at the front of the head, between the cam gears?
@@Garage4age Yes sir. Nothing there.
i was so stupid back then when i saw redtop small port heads etc in scrap yards and didnt take any of them. Now they are so hard to find. At least this gives me hope with the bigport heads
May the petrol gods bless you abundantly
Thanks for sharing.
2:44 what a sick graphic 😂
Thankyou 🙏🏽
These 4age look easy to work on
Hey brother! I’ve been watching your vids for a while and never realized I wasn’t subscribed!! Love love love all your hard work. Truly a lot of work just for a regular video but this was lots of time!
Any chance you have any GZE vids in progress? Cheers mate!
Hey, thanks. Nar no supercharged stuff sorry,
LOVE iT! . we just purchased a series 3 engine small port and was wondering which way to go... ITBS or PLenum setup.. DEFNITELY ITBS!!!
I always take the 4age engine has the baby 2jz 😂
Recent in the channel, very nice footage
Thanks for the video! Do you notice a rev response difference with the lighter H beam rods ? I'm curious how the lighter rotating assembly feels compared to stock? Any noticeable difference in how quick it revs or responds to throttle input ? Thank you 😊
Not really noticeable. since not a huge change in the scheme of things. Light flywheel is the go to make them less lazy. This one has a 3.7kg flywheel with smaller clutch, vs the 5.9kg stock flywheel, makes a big difference. Always good to pull weight out if the pistons and rods though.
I love your videos man! I was wondering if you have ever experimented with the the Yoshimura style dual funnel velocity stacks. It's kind of like having a TVIS system, but it's static. Just change the lengths of the upper and lower stacks to get the best combination of high and low RPM power.
I've tried similar along with some other stuff. haven't been able to beat a normal style runner of the correct length, overall power wise. Some things will make a touch more peak but take a big hit in the bottom end. or the other way around. seems like the only way to significantly beat it is a variable system.
@@Garage4age I think it would make for a cool video, if not just great content, to debunk the myths or maybe learn something new with experimentation.
7th harmonic unlocked.
Have you ever tried reducing exhaust bore size as the exhaust moves away from the engine?
The theory being to maintain gas velocity as the exhaust gasses cool and so loose volume on their way down the exhaust pipe. What we tried was reducing a 2.5inch down to 2inch for the last third of the car. The drivers claimed the car felt better, I never saw any dyno proof it made a difference. This was on a turbocharged rally car with a restriction plate on the inlet to bring all cars in the class to the same level, so a bit different to N/A I guess.
👏👏
👍
Awesome content as usual. Are the throttle bodies from a blacktop that have been upgraded to 47mm butterfly valves?
Hey, yeah thats the one. stock blacktop 45's probably ok for the power its making. Just had the 47's hanging around from another project.
What's your 3inch exhaust set up? Great video🙏🏻
Wow, there’s 20 valves that barley make 130whp. This makes me wanna build a 16v!
Лучшие 27 минут
Подитожил предыдущие видео ролики 😄
Want to say Cheers for all these videos. You inspired me to get my ass into gear and build mine.
Got a garage 4age sticker up on my workbench haha.
I'm also doing mine on a budget, Do you really think the rods are beneficial to the build? It seems like the power is rolling off where stock rods could spin to anyways.
I've been tossing up buying them or not I just don't feel they're really needed.
Do you get any kickbacks for me using your code? Cause that will help get me over the fence if it supports you haha
Nice. Dont need the rods. But I would suggest arp rod bolts and silvertop/late smallport rods, and weight match them if revving up to 9k. Have used that combo for years with no issues. but by the time you do all that the price of the maxpeeding looks pretty good. i dont get anything directly if you use the code. maybe they will send me more stuff to test if people do though. Im interested to get one of there crankshafts, but dont want to pay for it haha
@@Garage4age Haha cheers mate food for thought. I don't think I'd spin it much past 8000rpm maybe 8200rpm max. I was only going to just freshen up my motor till I stumbled across your channel and you inspired me to do the budget builds.
Tvis delete was a bit flawed, since you changed the total length of the intake runners, and thus changing the ressonant frequency of your intake.
Just a heads up, since you are always so meticulous in your work. Love it!
Hi, yeah i know, i done it like that as thats how most people did it. You can see the small shift in the graph 100-200rpm or so from the shorter runner length. otherwise it basically does the same thing as having the butterflys open all the time, as seen at start of video
Great vid as always ! What do you think of other kelford cams ? Why do you choose the 193b?
They are ok. can get away with quite a bit bigger / more aggressive, without losing much if anything down low. with the right combo of parts. but not so much if dont get it right. Had the 193b's hanging around from a previous project. thats why they ended up in this engine.
@@Garage4age thanks for your answer ! Honestly the 193b is quit impressive ! But since I love so much high revs and don't care too much about mid/low, I think Will buy 193D for maybe few extra hp.
Hi, Garage 4AGE, thanks for another great video. Are these stock 45mm 20 valve ITBs? I see you mention 47mm ITBs in some of your videos ; are these modified 45mm ITBs, and is there a video where you show how this done, and/or power gains compared to 45mm ITBs?
throttles have had oversized plates put in yeah. On this engine there wouldn't be any gains over the 45's, just had them hanging around from another engine setup. when heading towards the 140kw mark would be worth looking at. I can say for sure there is no gain going from 47mm to 52mm throttles at 150kw. Also 40mm runner (not including throttle plate) will restrict power to 130kw. which can be seen on one of my earlier videos.
@Garage4age is it better to use the intake adapter intended for the smallport on a bigport head? thank you very much!
can you test itb's with tvis
Which spark plugs/gap were you running for these tests? All of this was super helpful by the way.
bkr6e, dont need anything special
Got info how to get the ae92 red top small port to swap to rwd? Asking seeinh you have a lot of experience with the 4age
Amazing video! Just wondering if you ever plan on doing a stock bigport bottom end video? Would love to see what the best combo is for peasants who have stock compression still :)
Wouldn't be much different to this engine. This one just has smallport pistons . So 10.3 compression rather than 9.4 . I'd run a late version oil pump if planning on revving much past stock though
@@Garage4age I've already installed a 20V oil pump and a Toda flywheel but everything else is stock. What do you think would be a safe rev limit?
23:40 lol ahahaha
Hey bro, been watching your channel for awhile now. Just curious with the kelford cams do the shim over buckets work with that sorta duration? or would it need a shim under bucket conversion?
They are stock shim cams. they are actually one of the smallest cams they sell for 4age. Its more the ramp rate on the cams rather than the duration that needs shim under/ shimless.
@@Garage4age that is awesome.. thank you for the information.
You didn't check valve clearance after installing that gold exhaust cam! ;)
I have an idea might be way off but how about tvis to itbs?
Does exhaust change the optimal tvis switchover point? I assume that it does, but not much.
Would need a significant change in airflow demand to change the switch point. since its an airflow thing. Likely find the switch point will work a little better at a lower rpm in the lower gears. allow time for the butteries to open, since they dont open instantly
What engine management system are you using? Could you make a video on converting the 16v to ITB?
Anything above 264 needs a stand-alone right?
link g4. i'd run aftermarket ecu on any cam upgrade worth doing. itb's need aftermarket ecu also
Like everytime very interessing contain ! May i ask you if in your next 20v dyno test you can test stock header stock downpipe with a 60mm exhaust vs a 76mm exhaust ? Because over here peope telling me that i only loose power with my 76mm on my stock header and stock down pipe on my 2zz i know its not same engin but still just want to see if it gain from 60 to 76
All the power is in the header and what happens in the first part of the exhaust. after that less restriction the better. you can see it in the 20v video where i tested the front pipes. when i remove the exhaust after the front pipe it makes more power. running bigger exhaust will do the same. but the headers and front pipe need to be tuned right for it to work.
@@Garage4age thank sir i have think about it but it make all clear now
You know anything about the 5a-fe thats what i have here in Chicago but it’s absolutely impossible to find info and parts
your channel is treasure
what ecu are you running ?
ive managed to combine t3 itb adapter + tvis + 20v silver top itb's with stock ecu .
im just using a super afc to correct my afr's at idle and at high revs.
runs great passes emissions drives perfect sounds even better
t3 adapter had to be modified to match the tvis system .
would you be curious enough to try to fit the tvis with itb's ?
if you have a stand alone ecu i believe this set up is the best .
hey, it has a link g4 ecu. tvis plate alone wont do much. need the 8 individual runners to be of benefit
@@Garage4age tvis with original 8 holes + 4 individual runners (butterflies ) . not plate empty .
engine + afr readings + emission = almost 100% .
@@Garage4age speed density / velocity is way different and by that the stock ecu+ safc can compensate like it would be if it was stock . my car is a living proof . thats why im suggesting this to you .
Guys, pay attention to the measuring torque scale. It is completely out of the norm.
Maybe some try with various headgaskets and/or different CRs?
I swapped to a thinner gasket in one of the latest videos
@@Garage4age I'll check that out !
How to differentiate early and late smallport because @19:00 +/- there were mentioned early and late smallport conrod
Ive only found late smallport rods in late 4agze smallport. which makes sense, as they were made alongside the silvertop 20v and the na smallport was discontinued. dont quote me on it, there maybe some crossover there. but every na smallport i've pulled apart has had the big rods.
extremely didactic thanks. Dumb question, shouldn't you have been inserting the intake cam down the throttle body? LOL!
re cams; when the opportunity is there, its best to go straight to the source
Why is it when you go to the single inlet that you have more lope than with ITB's on the same cam setup?
My AW11 4AGE has unknown cams, currently running in the factory position. At idle it lopes and stinks of fuel.
Hi, great videos! Do you plan doing a forced induction experiments?
Maybe some time in the future. I already have a few up if you haven't seen them already.
Man thats crazy, my MX5s B6 with 292/306 Cams, head skim, valve springs and ITBs doesnt make 100Kw at the flywheel
prob could with some tweaks!
@@Garage4age i mean without 4age swap
@@Swiftsuper1600 Not the tweaks i meant, but yeah that works!
What size your itbs I looking to put some on 4efe for oval racing so mid to top rev range only be used have choice of 40 45 50 mm itbs to choose from Was thinking 45 or bigger is better for top end?
depends how much power your engine is making. but 45mm's would be plenty for any 4e. you can get away with going a bit oversized. most important thing is to get length right, then shape/diameter
The heads are standard? Are there room for improvement by porting and/or bigger valves?
That was one of the tests. they all run stock valves but the last one is modified
Hello 4age Garage,
Quick question for you and sorry if it’s dumb. I’m currently in the middle of a large port build, and I don’t have any TVIS available to me. So I was wondering if I was to use a Techno toy tuning large port to small port adapter in place of the TVIS would that save some bottom end, or just choke the engine? Let me know if you have any insight and thanks for the all information on this channel!
There is a test in this video somewhere. testing both the tvis manifold and smallport manifold on bigport head. or do you mean use the t3 adaptor on the bigport inlet minus the tvis to get some extra length?
@@Garage4age Yes, still using a big port inlet and the extra length would be nice. But I’m also curious if it’d help port velocity since it tapers down a small port diameter. You did something similar but also used inserts to downsize the head ports at the same time.
@@olympiabmx I don't think there would be much in it. but i also don't see it hurting power either. worth a try long as they have left enough material for the smallport side to seal on bigport head. The smallport and bigport thing is kind of misleading. as across the whole inlet track, the only part of bluetop bigport (not talking redtop bigport) that is bigger than smallport is the port entry, soon as get to port divider bigport is actually smaller. And yeah from those tests i done with the inserts etc. can basically ignore that part of the port. Which makes sense why toyota did it like that to fit the tvis setup
@@Garage4age Okay I see what you're saying. Maybe I'll give it go but thank you for entertaining this idea with me! Love the new stuff with the VVTI. It's real interesting stuff you got going on.
Hice work, thanks! Which cylinder block are you using for this build, early(Bluetop) or late(Redtop)? Since Redtop is stronger, do you know how much power early(Bluetop) block can handle?
Block itself was redtop bigport. which is the first of the 7 rib blocks. basically just what i had hanging around. I'd run the later block in pretty much everything unless already in the car. easier to get parts and a bit stronger. I haven't actually owned a bluetop block myself so cant comment too much on them
@@Garage4age thanks for the answer! Is there a video of idling on Kelford 193b 9.2/8.5mm 284/278 cams? Also is this setup with 129.3kW is good for a street/daily use?
@@tarasjzx It idles rough, and probably not amazing for stop start traffic. but otherwise very streetable. itb's make them run nicer with cams than a single throttle also
I'm curious to know what compression increases would do from 10:3 to 10:5 or 10:8
Also would love to see a 12:1 motor on good fuel.
However, I doubt there's a budget piston option for compression rations above 10:3 ?
Haven't tested it myself directly, as have done other changes at the same time. But likely need bigger changes to see any measurable difference in a small engine Going to up a whole point from 10.3 to 11.3 probably worth doing. Yeah 10.3 is the highest comp factory pistons they come with. But they are pretty easy to get into the 11's with a head skim and a .8mm head gasket. which is also good idea as tightens up the squish areas. my good engine in the earlier vids is close to the 13:1 mark, is fine on 98ron pump gas
how does one adjust the tvis switchover point. had a look around couldnt find anything for a how to
Lookin like he's got a aftermarket ecu (link?) which you can program when it can turn on.
@@mikemikeyee hmm. i was under the impression that tvis was purely analogue
Tvis is switched by the ecu. switches a solenoid under the manifold that controls vacuum. so yeh short version; you cant unless have aftermarket ecu. factory should be right anyway.
@@Garage4age i see. was just wondering if it were possible with a stock ecu. so that long motorway rides wouldnt be alwasy in tvis
If you get a chance/$$$ do you reckon you could test tomei 264deg pon cams for a cheap build? I've seen pretty big variation in the performance people get out of them, but they're interesting for a low budget build coz the factory ecu runs them. Would be interesting to see if they provide more usable power in lower revs for a daily drive build as well
probably not since money/ dont have a use for them. but probably 5-10kw on a good setup. headers/exhaust need to be right to get any low end gains, else pretty much any cam upgrade will loose bottom end. same deal with the variance in results. Have seen cam upgrades; small to big make only make a small amount more power than stock engine due to an issue with one or more of the bolt ons. Ive tuned a 20v with pon cams, makes less power than my stock cam 20v. but same deal. bolt on issue not the cams
@@Garage4age yeah all good, just a though ay but yeah bro your exhaust testing vids make that pretty clear ay best I seen on the poncams is 160 whp ish, pretty good for a cam that runs on factory ecu ...but that was fully balanced bottom end on motec, itbs and tuned by Tek arts... Not exactly a cheapie :/
Yeah they seem like a good option if want engine to run like stock still. the 20v i tuned still idled and ran nice just like factory engine. In saying that , the afr was pretty messy on stock ecu, before swapping to aftermarket ecu.
On 16v, 170whp + should be possible. considering i managed to make 160whp on stock cams. but wont be easy or smart way to make that power.
@@Garage4age yeah true and I guess with 193bs like you're using they're not exactly all that more pricey cams and your still gonna do about the same amount of other work if you want it running nicely as a daily like I would, that's part of the appeal to me, but if the afr is a bit wonky then I'd rather pay the money for the link and hope I'm happy with dailying a car with kelfords init lol
@@dylanfry6078 Yeah I'd run the pon cams or similar for a nice daily. would actually skip straight past the 193b for anything else. because if done right can go a step or 2 up without any real drawbacks. that's the reason they are in the test engine, as i figured that out the hard way and they are leftovers
Huh, so the runs with tvis -> smallport -> itb longrunners.. proves the theory that if you could manage to have the tvis-plate between itbs and engine, you would make more bottom end from the restriction the tvis would generate lol, ironically making it's purpose the opposite of what it is made for (basically just slightly more restriction up until 4850rpm then it ceases to matter).. which is exactly what variable runner-length ITB's do effectively 😂
Same ol' "air-speed vs air-flow" still holds just as true it seems
Yeah the area of the 2 runners combine on tvis manifold is actually bigger area wise than the smallport manifold. taking into account of the butterfly area. would be more loss in the runners having 2 though. the tvis manifold is longer than the smallport, likely the reason for the drop right up top. which will be one of the same dips can see the long runner itb's have further down the rpm range. the longer runners will drag the peaks and dips down the rev range and add some more if long enough. Ideally the runners would change both diameter and length. Ive got something in mind how to make this work on the itb setup.
Time to get a 20v head on the channel?
I done a couple of 20v vids not long ago. maybe a little update vid coming soon. but no major changes planned yet.
what ecu, are you used?
Link g4. engine spec is in description in most of my videos
42mm crank?
Yeah, its a redtop bigport block with smallport pistons.
whin nitro fast
Can you get away with this setup without aftermarket conrods?
Yes, arp rod bolts are good piece of mind he heading towards 9k rpm though. silvertop/ late smallport are the pick to do it with.
@@Garage4age thanks, looking to make power before I can take apart the bottom end.
would you be able to build me a set of your headrs?
when 150kw?
Bigger cams. Higher compression. Big valves. Is the only major changes between this And my 150kw engine.
2:36 almost not worth having the tvis
its not the greatest system. but depends how you look at it, when engine is only making 50-60 kw its around 6 - 7% more power. so isn't nothing
ugh.. That Poor little Engine 😁