Camera buyers beware. The truth you MUST know about older digital and film equipment.
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- čas přidán 25. 01. 2022
- Nikon, Canon, Hasselblad, Sony, Mamiya, Leica, Olympus, Fuji ... they make spares forever. In fact, some don't make spares for very long at all. Before you buy make sure you do your homework and understand the risks associated with buying older electronically-reliant equipment.
Excellent point. Pro-level cameras should be supported for 15-20 years. Thanks for making this video.
Absolutely!
And even more so in these days of global warming.
Agree 100%
So how would they sell any new ones? Obsolescence makes money.
Hasselblad discontinued the X-Pan around 20 years ago. You’re suggesting offering ongoing support will dent sales of the current X2D? Of course it won’t. If anything, it’ll enhance Hasselblad’s reputation and reinforce sales of latest equipment.
Dude, my Canon 300D (2003) 20D (2006) 5D Classic (2005) and 1DX (2012) All still work flawlessly My 5D4 and 6D2 still work great. I should add that I have.a Hasselblad 500CM, a Canon AE-1, Canon A1, and Canon F1N, and a Canon EOS 1V....all still working...Yeah, I've had other cameras go bad over the years. But stuff don't break as often as you portray in this vide...And I was a working photographer for 40 years, so I didn't pamper my gear.
All modern equipment is reliable. I don’t say it isn’t. But failure rates increase with age. As a dealer I have thousands of secondhand items pass through my hands every year. So claims I make v-a-v reliability are accurate and based on a significant sample size. Nobody cares if a 20D or AE-1 stops working. People do care when Mamiya 7s and XPans fail.
Just before embarking on film photography last year, I was a regular viewer of your videos. I had to go through a few cameras before ending up with a Contax G2, Leica M3 and a Leica MA. The Contax G2 has a finite lifespan and possibly is in danger of ending up as you’ve described. It was priced dearly however John, I’ve got to say recent images of my family made with the G2 and the paired up Zeiss 45mm lens were singular with impressive image quality. Thank you John for your forthrightness and your kind efforts.
Very kind, thank you.
Well that does it. I'm sticking with my pinhole camera. Hasn't had a breakdown or malfunction in 30 years....!! (Very informative video, Jonathan. And I appreciate your lament regarding the investment made to manufacture these complex cameras and that they should be serviceable for years after they were made.)
This is why I like old fully mechanical film cameras. Most of mine are older than me (I'm 50) and still working fine. Even the only one with an electronic shutter, a Pentax ME Super I bought second hand back in the 90:s, still works perfectly.
Agree totally!
We need to advocate for a circular economy approach from these companies.
Yes, agree!
Another late film one that can be used without batteries is the Nikon FM3A. I suspect that's why they are holding value so well. What still amazes me though is how many of the Nikon F/F2 are still in service now given most were bought by pros that beat the unholy hell out of them. I have a F2 I got a bit over 20 years ago that looks like it was run over by a Mack cement truck a number of times but still works great.
Yes, and of course the FM2 and FM. I wouldn't be surprised if Nikon relaunched the FM3a ... or an updated version. Thanks for commenting.
I have a Nikon S2 that was serviced a few years ago. Looks and works as new. Also have an F2 that works well. Recently purchased an Olympus XA at a thrift store that I will be testing next week. My favorite old camera is a Yashica Electro 35. Had it serviced. It has electronic components. Such a pretty Camera. Works like new.
Nice collection! All good cameras. There’s no issue servicing and maintaining electronic cameras as long as spares aren’t needed. The problem is that spares aren’t available for cameras like the XA or Yashica so if electronic components fail, the camera is a write-off (unless you can source spares from other cameras).
Great video and very informative and I use a 1936 Rolleiflex 3.5 and 90 other film cameras and I never use the inbuilt light meters on them
Thanks. Glad it was useful.
Very good points.
Thanks - hope it was useful
So true I have me grandfathers old fujicarex ii 60 years old still like new built like a tank... I'll have to take it out and give it a go
Fantastic cameras!
Thank you!
Hope it was useful.
I have a Canon AE-1 Program that is in excellent shape quite fun to use. The metering seems okay too.
Great cameras!
It’s heartbreaking that we think if we love our cameras enough and take good care of them, they would last forever. But that’s just not the case. It’s ridiculous that something built so beautiful can become worthless once they fail and there’s no way to fix them😢
My earliest Leica camera is 100 years old and working well. It’s been serviced regularly and used carefully. There’s no reason it shouldn’t last another century. Sadly that can’t be said about the vast majority of modern equipment.
Thank you for this informative video and absolutely agree with your conclusions, except… a Leica III in good working order is absolutely brilliant as an everyday camera, especially when travelling. Mine is from 1933 and having had the Elmar lens cleaned and coated some 20y ago, the print quality is superb. Yes, I would love the lens to be f2, and collapsible, but happiness is a camera with a few rolls of film in the pocket…
Yes, some do still use Leica screw cameras day to day … and that’s fantastic. But the 80-odd years of innovation since means there are newer cameras that will meet the needs of more photographers more often.
Good point.
I have spent much of my life repairing "unfixable" items. Sadly I find myself increasingly throwing out stuff that still works. The fact that a manufacturer no longer supports a product does not automatically mean that it cannot be repaired but you might need to find a similar device to break up for parts. Quite a few years ago I bought a new compact camera, within a week or so of buying it a friend dropped it onto a pub table. This resulted in an annoying mechanical fault. Since it was a small fiddly thing I sought out a fixed price repair, but found an as new camera from the top of the same range for a fraction of that. Having got the replacement camera gave me the confidence to tackle the other one, figuring if I trashed it I woud keep the battery and throw the camera . It took just a few minutes to fix it, nothing was damaged just a part sprung into the wrong position. FWIW I gather there is an independent in Brick Lane, East London that can repair that Canon you have. Whether it is economic to do so is another question.
There are some very good repairers who can work their magic. Often the independents have more experience and greater skill levels than the manufacturers’ own repairers. That said, if a given component isn’t available and can’t be manufactured, repair will be impossible. You can always take spare parts from a donor but this is usually an issue for the reasons I mention in the video. Thanks for commenting - it’s always appreciated.
A good video warning the unsuspecting buyer - Thanks. Amateur radio gear is very similar - 10 years? forget it or buy a Junker to get the part your looking for.
Yes, the same, but less painful as it costs less in the first place (and perhaps expectations of longevity should be lower?)
70 year old Compur shutters work great after 70 years and just need an occasional CLA to keep going. Lots of aperture blades for great bokeh as well.
Yes, agree 100%! Thanks for commenting.
Yes. Great point. Doesn’t only happen with photographic gear…..
Absolutely!
Sadly true not just for cameras but for watches and hifi equipment too. I have had two expensive British hifi amplifiers fail, both from top names known at one time for servicing and refurbishing their older products (Arcam, Sugden). Both were a bit over ten years old. Both described by the manufacturer as 'unsupported' which in tech jargon means 'we ain't gonna fix this'.
Thanks for sharing
This is so true of so many high tech collectibles made from the 1970s and later. Take for example the collector car market. Many are paying a hefty premium today to buy and put into storage the last of the ICE muscle cars like the Camaro ZL1, Mustang Shelby GT500 or the Chalenger SRT Hellcat. These cars contain so many electronic parts that they are almost certain to become unusable a few decades out, and we're talking about six figure "investments". This is why I've advised friends to only buy classic cars made before 1973 (when safety and emissions laws precipitated the introduction of complicated electronics).
Thanks for commenting
Great video! I was asking my local camera shop that repairs cameras about a few cameras that I have. He told me the Bronica SQ series are not serviceable. He is still able to service my Mamiya C330. So it seems to come down to whether the camera is mechanical or electronic, with electronic cameras most likely being unserviceable.
Yes, exactly. Bronica went out of business 20 years ago so spares will be hard to find. That said, they are very reliable.
Good evening Jonathan. Great Advice!! As I posted in another of your great videos....I have a Nikon FM2N a Nikon F3hp also a Nikon FE2. I'm sure you will appreciate which is My preference? I learned the craft of Photography on Manual Cameras when I was 18 years of age .I read various books on Nikon. And one day dreamed of owning A Nikon. Then after owning Prakticas and much saving i actually Graduated too owning the Nikon FM2N. I still cherish it ! Many thanks for your Kind words of wisdom. Kindest regards Colyn.
Nikon FE2, FM2n and F3 are great cameras. If I had to choose one I'd be torn between the F3 and FM2n!
Great info. Reason when i purchase a used digital camera, I find a inexpensive , simular body as a spare. KB
Thanks
I have a collection of cameras going back 50 years, and quite a few are early digital cameras bought second hand. If I like a camera and bond with it, I buy two - just in case of catastrophic failure.
Thanks for your comment - always appreciated.
I have a 1963 Nikon F with several contemporary lenses that all works just fine.
Yep, and it will continue to do so for years with a little tlc! Thanks for commenting.
I have been wanting the nikon ti but i refrained due to the reason it might fail n stuck.. i prefer the old fully mechnical.. thanks jonathan
The Nikon 35 Ti is a great camera but you must understand the risks if buying. A mechanical alternative is a better option!
I would really hope that Nikon F6s are repairable still, given their price new and the fact that they've only recently gone out of production. I don't hold too much hope though.
I don’t know for sure. Maybe drop Nikon an email to confirm?
With age, manufacturer methodologies become more apparent. I have several old cameras.
My 57 year old Speed Graphic works perfectly. Graflex made simple but resilient cameras that were user fixable.
My 65 year old 6x9 Agfa Billy-Record doesn't work. Agfa built delicate devices that are prone to mechanical problems.
My 55 year old Minolta Autocord (two of them) work perfectly. However I also wore out another two of them. Both failed in the focussing mechanism, which seems to be their weakness. I have never used the light meter on any of them. Minolta created an "exposure value" system that I (and almost all other Autocord users) could never figure out and we just used our Westin Meters instead. It never failed, but was never used.)
My 40-ish year old Pentax ME Super and MX. The Super does fail after a few years, but the MX is solid as a rock The MX and Spotmatic are the best early Pentax to own.
My Nikon FA and FG. Nikon over-engineering shines through. Old Nikon's can have reliability differences between models, but even the Nikon's with the poorest reputation (like the FA) tend to be a lot more reliable than Olympus, Pentax, Canon, and Minolta of the same era. Of my 40+ year old 35mm SLR's, it is the Nikon's that are in best physical condition with all features functioning like new. Back then they were the highest priced cameras, and as they say - you get what you pay for.
Thanks for commenting - always appreciated
Any good totally mechanical film 35mm cameras with a waist level view finder you recommend ?
Nikon F or Nikon F2. Also original Canon F1.
I owned a Mamiya 7II with four lenses and a Hasselblad XPAN 1 with all three lenses and an Imacon 646 film scanner. I bought all of this then still pretty new stuff in the glorious time around 2010, when all professionals went to digital and suddenly the dream machines of the 1990s and 2000s became dirt cheap.
Sold them all some time ago. I just hated the idea of waking up one morning and then realize that I now own a 3000 EUR paper weight.
What do I use now? Hasselblad 501CM, Rolleiflex 3.5E, Nikon F2. All perfectly easy to repair and all of them considerably cheaper than the Mamiya and XPAN. And instead of the Imacon scanner I simply use my Sony A7RII with a Sigma 105 Macro lens for camera scanning and I am just as happy with the results and get it done much faster, too.
I also own a Nikon F3, but it is not 3000 but only 300 EUR so if that dies I would be a bit annoyed, but well, I will survive.
I'm already aware of Canons reputation in this regard but wondering what Panasonic and Sony are like in this regard particularly for the GH series and Alpha series of cameras. I'm particularly looking at the Sony a6400 and Panasonic GH5 models so if anyone has any insight on those brands/models that's be really appreciated.
Leica and Hasselblad are better than most. As far as I’m aware all the main-stream manufacturers are the same (including Sony and Panasonic).
Most don't care much for film cameras and most older digital camera on the market are cheap enough that even if it fails, it won't break the bank.
Thanks for commenting
This is exactly why I chose a reconditioned Leica M3 and a separate light meter. It should outlast me. The more sexy models are certainly appealing, but as you say, they are junk once the electronics fail.
Thanks for commenting. Yep, an M3 could easily outlive us all. Keep them clean and occasionally service and Leica’s mechanical cameras will last forever.
Why wouldn't you recommend to use a pre-war Leica? When serviced, these are still fantastic cameras to photograph with.
Apart from that, you are of course right. To be honest, I would never buy the overpriced point and shoot cameras (Contax T2, Leica Minilux, etc.). Seems like a big waste of money to me. Kind regards from Germany!
The older Leicas are beautiful but so slow to use compared to modern equipment (even modern Leica rangefinders). Yes, or course you can use them, many people do. But the vast majority of today's photographers (particulary those from the digital generation) wouldn't know where to start! That said, a well serviced Leica III will outlast any modern camera .... including the T2, Minilux, TC1 etc. It's no different to owning a classic car. Nothing beats a vintage Aston Martin. But you do need a modern Mercedes in the garage for the days in doesn't start!
@@WorldwideCameraExchange
Well, it depends. Of course you cannot work as a professional photographer with a 1930s Leica. But for me (as an amateur who photographs regularly) my 1932 Leica and my Rolleiflex 3.5C are everything I need. Especially the Leica can be used with a wide angle lens and as a point and shoot. Reliability is dependend of many factors but a serviced mechanical camera is always more trustworthy.
That said, I like the design of the Contax T2 or the Nikon Ti and some other cameras. I used for example the Olympus XA with great results. It's just too bad, that these cameras are hyped by stars or influencers to a point where prices are simply not justifiable.
Kind regards!
Many years ago I heard a professional photographer state that all digital cameras were ultimately disposable. A sad but realistic perspective.
Yes. It's a shame the manufacturers don't make spares for longer to help extend their life a little!
@@WorldwideCameraExchange In contrast, my half century old Mamiya C33 is entirely free of electronics and every part user-accessible. Even the lenses can be unscrewed for cleaning -- a forgotten trait of what 'pro' labeled gear is supposed to be.
Fantastic cameras!
Is it possible to use micro-soldering?
Possibly - it's not my area of expertise. There are some very competent repairers out there - I'd be surpirised if it hadn't been considered. Thanks for your comment.
If you are into micro-electronics and can work on circuit boards, you might actually be able to repair some of these electronic cameras. You could even make a career out of it.
@@Dahrenhorst Some can be fixed but unfortunately not all.
I think this guys who fixes apple products for a living has shown that it can be down. I’ve only once sat down at a station for micro soldering. Maybe one day I will, first I gotta get through school and try acting 😄 or film
Don't throw them out. At least sell them or give them away as "for parts" units. They may be fixable in the future.
Thanks for commenting.
How many camera equipment manufacturers still service cameras and lenses that are 10 years old?... And if they have spares and official repair centers how many are cost effective?
Not many. That's the problem. Equipment that costs many thousands of dollars/pounds/euros should be repairable after 10 years. The camera manufacturers need to produce more spares so cameras and lenses remain serviceable. Plenty of independent repairers can carry out the work cost effectively but Nikon/Canon/Sony/Hasselblad etc won't/can't supply the spares.
@@WorldwideCameraExchange Leitz actually still repairs nearly all of their cameras. Hasselblad, too, as far as I know, as does Linhof.
@@Dahrenhorst Sadly not the case. Leica can't repair many of its earlier electronic cameras. Hasselblad no longer holds all spares for the X-Pan range. Repairing Linhof is more straightforward as its cameras are mechanical.
@@WorldwideCameraExchange True, I was more thinking about the mechanical classics. Remarkable, that some manufacturers can repair their 60 years old cameras easily, but their 30 years old models not that much.
@@Dahrenhorst Yes. A good reason to stick with mechanical equipment if you can!
Jonathan, can you say to me the cameras purely from western countries? Thx.
No, all cameras … Leica, Hasselblad, Mamiya, Nikon, Canon etc
I’m surprised the Canon can’t be fixed. Mechanical cameras might be the answer but then film has a limited future and it’s not very convenient for many of us.
The solution is for Canon, Nikon, Sony, Panasonic, OM System and others to manufacture spare parts for longer than they do currently. I’m not suggesting everybody should buy a mechanical film camera - as you say they’re not suitable for most. The purpose of the video was to make photographers aware of the issue so they can make buying decisions accordingly.
I've been looking at buying an RZ67. For service / reliability reasons, would you recommend an RB67 over the RZ?
Yes, I would recommend an RB, assuming of course you don't need any of the extra functions the RZ offers. If you do decide to buy an RZ make sure it's clean condition - avoid anything heavily used.
RZs are somewhat on sale now, since more and more RZ photographers realize, that this camera has a limited life span, and therefore switch to RBs. RBs are harder and harder to come by, and their prices are climbing fast.
Thanks for commenting
Great video!! It’s a bloody shame we’re living in our throw-away societies. Every manufacturer should be obliged by law to completely service EVERY PRODUCT THEY MAKE for at least 20 or 30 years. Yes it would be making everything (way) more expensive, but no that’s not a problem at all! We would be buying a lot less rubbish in our lifetime, would essentially only buy something new when the old product is broken AND cannot be repaired anymore, and our planet would be way better off! Come on EU, change the laws, you should have done this decades ago!
Agree 100%
This is why I stopped buying Flash units or cameras with built in flash, older than say 1995. The capacitors are dead and replacing them is dangerous.
Thanks for commenting
Honestly, I don't understand why someone can spend a large amount of money on second-hand electronically controlled cameras that are 20 years or more old. You're going to break it sooner rather than later.
If you are going to buy an electronically controlled camera, make sure it is recent or at a good price. Otherwise, it is better to buy one that is mechanical, because this way you know that it will last a lifetime and that as long as film rolls, developing liquids and scanners are sold, you will always be able to take analog photos.
The market determines the value. If there are more buyers than cameras then prices will rise. The important thing is that buyers are fully informed and aware of the risks associated with older equipment (hence the video). I think prices have risen fast because few are aware of the issues. As buyers become more ‘educated’ I think prices will level off or even fall. Thanks for commenting.
All the camera makers are scammers. I have 4 cameras that at one time were all "state of the art". And now unfixable because the cameras are "Out of Production" .
Camera manufacturers innovate, so state of the art today won’t be state of the art tomorrow. The important thing is to recognise which cameras are and which aren’t repairable.
Why are electronic cameras so hard to fix? People repair things like Apple computers at the component level, and those are several orders of magnitude more complex than any electronic film camera, and that's without any support from the manufacturer.
A good opportunity for somebody with the requisite skills?
If a chip goes bad, you can't repair it, you can only replace it. If the replacement part isn't available, you're out of luck. It's not something that can be fabricated in a small shop.
Thanks for commenting - always appreciated
@@marksieving7925 That's true, but on the other hand designing and manufacturing work-alike boards with modern chips has gotten significantly cheaper and easier.
👍
I don't buy it! These cameras can be fixed IMO. Electronics circuits comprise of resistors, diodes, IC's, etc. all of which are available today and can be replaced. The fact that a camera tech says it can't, is because it's beyond his or her capability. We have become used to replacing whole systems or sub systems, rather than indevidual components.
So If the camera tech can remove the circuit board and it is sent to a competent electronics technician, I am sure they could fix it.
I know people who repair old valve radios, so why would cameras be any different?
The main question is, Is it economical to do so?
BTW I am a Chartered Engineer.
You don’t have much faith in the skilled repairers who service these high value cameras (many are already manufacturing unavailable components). It repair was possible and financially viable somebody would have found a way.
@@WorldwideCameraExchange I was not being disparaging to camera repairers, rather pointing out where their skill set lay. If a camera is sent to a large manufacturer, they will not spend the time investigating electronic faults. As you point out the difficulty is finding someone who I willing to put in the effort at a reasonable cost.
@@creative-renaissance and there lies the problem. The repairers with the experience and skill deserve to be rewarded appropriately. The best will quite rightly charge the highest rates which will make any time consuming repair unviable. The answer is for the manufacturers to commit to support for longer. Not an unreasonable demand when we’re talking about cameras that cost many thousand pounds/dollars/euros
@@WorldwideCameraExchange Fair point.
totally disagree with your argument. its more likely people can fix digital components over mechanical components which is already evident in mechanical tech.
I wish you were correct but where’s your evidence? Who and where are the people who can fix this stuff? X-pans, Mamiya RFs, long/expensive lenses by Canon/Nikon etc are worth many thousand £\€\$ and often they can’t be fixed. Their value justifies high repair charges but still nobody can. In contrast, in 35+ years, I have never failed to get a mechanical camera fixed. It may take time and money but it can be done. Thanks for commenting.
the plight of the luddite
Why do you assume users of old and users of new are mutually exclusive?
Go figure if i spend all that Money on film......Better buy used camera cheap, if they die ...buy another One....
Thanks for commenting
Honestly, I don't understand why someone can spend a large amount of money on second-hand electronically controlled cameras that are 20 years or more old. You're going to break it sooner rather than later.
If you are going to buy an electronically controlled camera, make sure it is recent or at a good price. Otherwise, it is better to buy one that is mechanical, because this way you know that it will last a lifetime and that as long as film rolls, developing liquids and scanners are sold, you will always be able to take analog photos.
The market decides the value. More buyers than cameras mean prices will rise. The important thing is that buyers are fully informed and aware of the risks associated with older equipment (hence the video). In my opinion prices have risen fast because few are aware of the issues. As buyers become more ‘educated’ prices will level off or even fall. Thanks for commenting - always appreciated.