Cost Comparison - Single Speed Vs. Black + Decker VS Pump
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- čas přidán 13. 09. 2024
- From www.swimmingpo... - This video breaks down the cost difference between a single speed pool pump versus a Black + Decker 1.5hp variable speed pump. The operating cost is compared by day, by month and over an 84 month service cycle in a direct apples-to-apples comparison that looks at filtration goals, turnover rate and flow rate for pump schedules on a pool sized approximate 16'x32' or roughly 20,000 gallons.
See the cost comparison tested on a Pentair Superflo VS using the same filtration goal of 60,000 gallons per day:
• Single Speed Vs. Varia...
#SwimmingPoolSteve #poolpump #comparison #variablespeedpump #efficiency
My estimate is 47k gal and saving just over $30 per month. Fantastic analysis thank you.
I’m using a slightly lower GPM est because I don’t know my head and I’d rather over filter than under filter.
Note lots of us have the 2HP not because we needed 2HP but simply because they sold out of the 1.5 HP for a long time.
I just recently moved into a new home with a pool and upgraded the system t the B&D 2hp as well. I’m waiting to get my flow meter so I can really see what’s going on with my system. I basically have the recommended setting for .81 cents a day but I have no idea what my actual GPM is the the 2hp and head resistance etc. I also bought a fibropool heater so I know that’s added some more resistance as well.
I am in Florida, with slightly higher electrical costs. In Summer, with 46,680 gallon filtration I’m at $.95 a day and winter I’ll be at $.79 a day based on how many watts the pump states it’s using. My min is 1100 RPM due to a waterfall feature.
2hrs 0500-0700 3000 RPM ~10,080 gal
7hrs 0700-1400 1100 RPM ~11,760 gal
3hrs 1400-1700 2800 RPM ~13,680 gal
6hrs 1700-2300 1250 RPM ~11,160 gal
@@qwerther44 Most areas in Florida have half price electricity during off peak hours from 11pm-6am. Best to adjust your program so at least half your high rpm sessions are at night (cheaper) and half during midday (greater chemical demand).
I am a dealer of the Blue Torrent VSP's. I personally installed on my pool a 3hp recently and I can tell you this is a major quality pump. I also have a long manufacturing background and have specialized in procurement of electric pumps and been to many pump mfg's domestically USA and China.Thailand, Korea etc. this is a HIGH quality motor. IF there is a weak spot, I would guess it's in the internals (impeller etc). But those don't appear to be the case. my 2 cents.
I recently purchased this variable speed pump so far I love it. Currently I’m following the manufactures recommended setting/schedule so I’m not sure what my consumption is based on 7.37 kwh.
Starting at 8am
3000- 2hrs
1500- 10hrs
2500- 2hrs
1000- 4hrs
Off- 6hrs
if you have a inverter pool heat pump, you should run the high speed when its hotter outside.
Love the video straight to the point. Love the data and the testing. Thank you! You took the leg work out of what I wanted to know I just picked this black & decker up this week. Appreciate the video. Keep it coming.
Excellent analysis. Thanks Steve.
I am happy you found this information helpful. Thanks for commenting.
Thank you for your videos. You are very knowledgeable and they are extremely helpful. If i have a small pool like 7k gallons. Can i just run the pump at a low RPM (like 1200) for 24 hours? Will that be effective? Or do i need to split it up and change the speed throughout the day? Thanks.
Who said we wouldn't need math after high school! Love this analysis.
Hi, right now I am using an old Pentair Superflo with 1 hp. One thing that I did not see anyone talking about this is the power of the pump.
Basically, should I get a B&D pump with 1.5 HP or 2 HP, if running at low speed the majority of the time, like the way you described in this video, since at low speed, do we LOSE suction power.
I am not sure on the HP issue, and would like to know from someone like you to tell me whether my thinking is correct or not, before buying this pump. Great video though. Thank you.
What about the additional cost of the variable speed pump?
The cost of that pump looks to be $829 right now. With $36.60 in savings per month as for this example, that means 22.6 months of operation in order to have saved the entire purchase price of the pump. But that is not a fair comparison as you need to buy a single speed pump so your $829 should be a lower number, being the difference between a single speed and comparable variable speed pump.
Hello Steve my buddy and I have been watching your channel a lot. He will be helping me install a vinyl liner system. In ground. So there is a lot that we are learning. We both bare carpenters with knowledge in all the aspects of building. Because of the overwhelmed cost on everything. We would be able to do this project.
Steve I would like send you a Patreon gift. Let's just say I was hoping that we could tap into some of your knowledge. As far as things nwe may encounter when pursue this project. Our best regards to you and have a great day.
I have a consulting package for new pool installations which would be ideal for your situation: www.swimmingpoolsteve.com/pages/question4.html
Did you have an issue connecting the male "Liquid Tight 1/2" connection" to the female electrical connection on the side of the pump? I just got a new pump and it binds very tightly so I am unable to thread the electrical casing connection into the side of the pump electrical box.
Love my 2hp black and decker
Has been great and solid price
Nice video, thank you for the info, I posted a video on my channel when I installed mine months ago, so far so good. Very happy with this pump.
I have this pump and I love it just hope it last. I run mine 10 to 12 hrs a day starting at 1Am to around 12 noon. Only the first 3 hours at full speed.
Hi Steve thanks for the video. Could you add the TCO and ROI? Example I filter 5 months a year, therefore it will take me 17 years to save 3000$, what is the extra cost of the variable speed during that time? Not sure replacing a working fixed speed pump is a good investment until it breaks.
The cost difference between variable and single speed is not all that much but yes you might be hard pressed to get rid of equipment that is still in working order. Then again, as per this example you would be saving every month. Whether it takes you a long time to save $3000 or a short time to save $3000 you are still saving. That is the extra money, and the VS pump does not cost $3000 so for sure you are ahead. There are a lot of variables to consider. If you ran your pump 24/7 as some pool owners do then you would recover costs at 3x the rate also. What if you program your high speed operation which uses the most power to run at night when variable electricity rates are lowest...in this case we can get the savings gap to be even wider and save you more money. $36.60 in savings every month, so after one season of use (5 months for your schedule) you have saved $183. The pump cost right now looks to be $829 so 4.5 seasons for you to recover the entire purchase price of the new pump in savings. If you could buy a new car that would pay for itself entirely just in fuel savings in only 4.5 seasons doesn't that sound good? But to your point, this is a question with a moving goalpost and every pool will be unique in how much they can (or can not) save with a new variable speed pump.
@@Swimmingpoolsteve @seanhinch2206
To Sean (in event you're still contemplating, one year on...):
I replaced a failed ~20 yo pump at the end of last season with a 1.5 hp B+D variable speed. Our season here is similar to yours, at most five months. I share an "if it ain't broke" mentality and likely would not have replaced the old pump if it continued working, particularly as a RoI calc for the expenditure would not be encouraging. However, two elements to consider that I've not seen discussed previously:
(i) After seller discount and before tax, I paid $750 for the pump. The seller (PoolPartsToGo) also indicated the pump was eligible for "utility rebate." Initially, I disregarded this claim, figuring a $25-50 rebate wouldn't change my life. But subsequently a utility mailing prompted me to investigate further. Ho ho! They offered a $200 rebate on the pump!! I applied; they paid. For sure, that improves the financial perspective.
(ii) Beyond financial savings, there can be real "quality of life" improvement. I ran the old pump 24/7. It was not quiet. We've a bedroom window within hearing distance of the pump and for those pleasant days when the house can be cooled by lake breeze rather than a/c, the noisy pump was an annoyance. The new pump is quiet at 2500 rpm and near silent at 1500 and below. Can't put a dollar sign on that, but it's a real--and immediate--benefit.
To Steve:
Very helpful analysis, nicely presented. Thanks! I've a ~25,000 gal pool. So far, have been using B+D's default auto settings, but "just for fun," used your observed 28 gpm @ 1000 rpm, as a straight-line factor for my setup. Yes, I understand my system is not yours and this is at best an approximation, but it suggests the default schedule might provide about 50,000 gal/day filtration--only two-thirds of what you recommend. Guess I need to get Blue-White's R-315 to be sure!
Sometime you might talk more about (or point me to where you have) how more filtration can mean less chemical usage. E.g., if a target range of free chlorine is 2.0 -- 4.0 ppm, how is this level affected by the amount of filtration? I suppose more filtration means less material to be acted on by the chlorine and therefore, free chlorine falls more slowly. Or something like that... In any event, thanks again.
And pumps running full speed are loud...!
We are having a pool built now and have 2 Jandy Zodiac epumps. variable speed of course 2.7HP.
Way too much for our pool, spa and water features but the company said we will be able to run them very slow to save money, sound and better to be overbuilt.
Oversized is ok to an extent but you can end up with a pump that is dangerously powerful. A suction pipe in a pool should not exceed 6fps of water velocity. In 2" pvc that is about 65 GPM. But a 2.7 or 3hp pump can move double that amount pretty easily. The pump should really be sized to the system such that if you ran it at full speed it would not make your suction lines exceed 6fps. For filtration pumps unless you have a floor cleaning system, massage jets or waterfalls you probably do not need anywhere near 3hp for just a filtration pump.
I have a floor cleaning system. At least I think I do. At any given time there are about four pop-up sprinkler heads that agitate the pool floor. Should I get the 3HP pump in this case? Pool has 2” pipe.
@@VamosMessi10 Choosing the correct pump size depends on knowing the pool volume, number of return jets and skimmers, vacuum system, filter size and type, water features.
Ikow wow doesn't do it, but great info!
You're room is awesome. The numbers don't lie, but you also have to factor in replacing a pump every 4 years when the brain on that vs craps out.
I think this brand has a 5 year warranty so I suppose that might represent the potential minimum service life. Most pumps in this class of pump from Hayward and Pentair have 60 days, 1 year or possibly 3 years. So half the price with a longer warranty...I mean I can understand why pool owners are taking a chance on these.
Nice! Please just give us oportunities minimally once to see all table to see comparison in one picture ....
FYI I do provide this on my website for almost every video I make - you can find a page showing the comparison and cost / energy breakdown here: www.swimmingpoolsteve.com/pages/compare-savings3.html
@@Swimmingpoolsteve thanks I will check it. My dile is how to manage regular pump coneevted to isaver+ what is frequency invertor. I like to manage that by rs 485 protocol directly from chlorinator Zodiac iq
Do you have a calculator to figure out these setting for my pool? I have 21,400 gallon 16x 36 pool with a sand filter. Also have a slide that only runs when we need it. 3 returns.
Unfortunately it is a little more complicated than simply making your schedule based on the pool volume period of course the pool volume is important but this is not enough information. You would need to know more about the filtration system, the number of pipes, the size of the pipes et cetera in order to make an informed decision on your filtration schedule. It's a very general rule you probably will want to run your pump 24 hours per day. Perhaps 3 hours at a higher RPM followed by 6 hours at a medium RPM. The reminder of the 24 hour day at a low RPM that generates 15 to 20 gallons per minute.
running a pump longer reduce it's life faster? and your costs don't take into account cost of the pump?
wow
good comparison.
I see this Black and Decker at 1000 RPM is moving the same volume of water at 1000 RPM 68 watts as does the Pentair Superflo (from your 1000 RPM test video) at 131 watts, and (from Hayward pumps page on your site) the Hayward Tristar 2.7 at 1000 RPM 28 GPM at 88 watts. What gives? Somehow it does not seem that the BD should be that much more efficient. Also, I'm surprised that the BD 1.5hp pump moves as much water at 1000 RPM as the Hayward 2.7 hp pump. I would have expected the lower HP pump to have a smaller impeller.
I have not tested a 2.7hp Hayward Tristar yet so not sure where you get this pump at 1000 rpm. Maybe the 1.5hp super pump I tested. But yes this 1.5hp Black + Decker pump seems to be pretty efficient in comparison with the other pumps I have tested.
@@Swimmingpoolsteve From your page on Hayward VS pumps: 1) Hayward TriStar 2.7 VS SP3206VSP
Motor RPM = 1000
Curve A = 20 GPM
Curve B = 12 GPM
Curve C = 28 GPM” and 2) “Hayward TriStar VS 2.7 SP3206VSP
Motor RPM = 1000
Average Power = 88.00 Watts
Average Energy Factor = 13.38”. But perhaps I misread it somehow, or it was a different rig with different head.
Different test. One is my actual test lab test results. Another is published performance curves from the manufacturer. The one with curve A, B and C are published results from an energy commission audit. Might be energy star. The results are available online. I hope this helps to clear up some of these numbers.
This pump does use less power at low RPM than the Pentair Superflo. Interestingly the superflo appears to have a baseline power consumption much higher than this Black + Decker as well as the 230v Hayward Super Pump VS. I would estimate this is the control circuit to the drive and control pad. Not noticeable at medium and higher rpm...a drop in the bucket. But at the lowest possible rpm the control power is using more than the motor drive power, hence the Black + Decker (and the Hawward Super Pump VS) looking so much more flow efficient at low RPM.
As long as it has enough suction to skim properly.
You can adjust down the rpm precisely and see when the skimmers are running effectively. For my system that’s only 1900 rpm with the variable speed - the single speed in comparison is always going at the max rate of 3450 and waiting all that additional electricity. My VS pump NEVER goes above 2600 rpm which is what suction vacuum requires. And at every rpm the VS is more every efficient and nearly silent
I'm not understanding something about TDH. You mention your system for this test has 25 to 30 ft of TDH, but based on the performance curves for this BD pump at 1500 RPM (I have not found a curve for 1000 RPM) at 25+ TDH this pump should not be able to pump anything at all. The 1500 RPM curve goes to 0 gpm at a TDH of 15. (The 1000 RPM curve would be even lower.). So I'm guessing your TDH at the 29 GPM shown must actually be much lower than 25 to 30.
My TDH is always based on the pump operating at maximum speed. Not a tdh for each speed. It's an attempt to just provide more information relative to the size and resistance of this plumbing configuration.
No way, B&D makes pumps? I bet they are just slapping their name on another company’s product.
Looks like this is a Blue Torrent pump.