Planning madness in Smithfield
Vložit
- čas přidán 10. 09. 2024
- In this episode, we explore a planning case that sheds light on why the country's housing shortage is so persistent.
www.pleanala.i...
#dublin #ireland #housing #planning #nimby #housingcrisis #smithfield #renters
K Lucid
V Malhotra
Narrated by P Nugent
52 flats rejected due to a beer garden... absolute madness
But... its litraly Ireland! People liven in pubs.... check that logic. Makes perfect seance to me, for Ireland.
Boohoo rich people will have to spend their 400k for a cramped flat somewhere else 😢
@@RustieFawn If the rich people buy there it frees up property somewhere else, lowering prices overall. This should have been built
@@RustieFawn Not sure how you expect to ease a housing crisis without building more in cities?
@@RustieFawn Look up the concept of housing filtering, it would do you well to understand what this is.
Bonobo would have been the local easily walkable pub for everyone that lived in those apartments as well. They could have had 100-200 new regular customers living a few feet away providing business and they pushed it away
I wonder if the real reason behind the objection was that it was going to be social housing and the owners of the pub didn't want that on their doorstep and potentially making the area less trendy. It is pure NIMBYism, and I don't know all the information about the case but surely detailed reasons as to why the planning permission was refused had to be given not just a yes or no answer? It seems not but it seems the council were trying to facilitate the concerns of the local residents and businesses owners, well one actually, I guess if everyone in the local area had complained then it's slightly different, but they just wouldn't budge one inch.
They could have ranks objecting to their license being renewed. Overlooking, noise, odours, late night opening, gigs!
@@mattpotter8725like directly across the road?
I totally agree. Pure NIMBYism.@@mattpotter8725
The neighbours would have complained about the noise and got the beer garden shut down.
This happens all the time, all over the country. The Irish population don't want low rise cities, a small cohort of unelected people do, and they have an unreasonably high power to stop anything that could improve our cities.
Idk about this, Irish people have never wanted to live in flats historically, mainly cause Ballymun was not maintained and ended up very badly
@@goose9515historically maybe, but I think you'd find far fewer young people today who have a problem with it, because they're increasingly desperate to just have anywhere to live
I am Polish. Had lived in Dublin. Moved back to Poland a few years ago. My Irish friends visit me in the summer. They are surprised with how well built and maintained the blocks of flats are. And I have a flat built in 1970s. Not a bother with it. Lots of trams to boot in Łódź
you're far better off in Poland housing wise. @@jezalb2710
@@jezalb2710 building standards are important, our flats may be different to soviet concrete designs, I remember staying in riga in a commie block and not hearing neighbours, but being about to hear neighbours in apartments in Dublin…
Even besides the issues of ABP having too much centralised power, the fact that they sided with the pub is wild to me. I can't understand how it can possibly happen that when the most urgent issue in the country is a housing shortage, there isn't a massive hurdle in place for siding with objections that prevent new, dense housing being built. If a body is supposed to try and weigh things for the greater good in society, it's just inconceivable that having some more light in a beer garden and respecting some tosser's opinion that Dublin should stay low-rise forever is considered to be of greater value than creating homes for 50-100 people in a perfect location.
One of the reasonable counter-arguments could be: not every housing project deserves being built on that particular corner of the established high street, there are plenty of other areas and sub-urban locations that aren't being developed for the lack of incentive. And there should be an incentive to stop packing everyone into Dublin, and that includes businesses too, especially in the wake of work from home schemes.
@@flowname it’s a burned out building…
@@rod9829 I know, I'm just saying that not every seven storey housing project should be automatically assumed appropriate for that location because there's housing shortage pressure. There could be a new three storey building that would fit that corner better and that doesn't affect the beer garden, and there could be a new seven storey building in a less developed and populated location. These are two separate issues to me: the need for housing and the desire of developers to build centrally because central locations generate a lot better ROI for them.
If you dont want to understand you never will
I smell filth someways along the chain of command ??
Very interesting video on the methods and effects of NIMBYism
It’s shocking how many people who live in the heart of cities think that they shouldn’t have to witness any other people living in the space around them.
As one of my teachers said, it costs nothing and only takes a weekend to start a war with your neighbors and severely delay or disrupt their construction plans. The system is stacked against those trying to make our cities better and in favor of grumpy assholes. Things really need to change!
There's a guy 2 doors down who is building a massive 2 storey extension to his house that will almost certainly block out any sunlight into the back garden where I live. That's also considering a massive tree located over the fence to the neighbour over the other side that is blocking light on that side.
I don't think this is reasonable behaviour and it's not my fault if there are any arguments.
@@Ligerpride Well that sucks, but as I said, the odds are stacked completely in your favor. I understand your pain but it shouldn't really be the role of the government to protect sunlight access to everyone's back garden. That would have massive ramifications for urban development. I suppose that is why old cities mostly didn't have private gardens but public parks instead, making things easier for everyone.
@@Maxime_K-G well I agree. I don't specifically oppose him (i.e. formally complaining) doing it but I also think we have a responsibility to each other to behave reasonably with each other. My neighbours plans are unnecessary and unreasonable. His house is already pretty big and he has a corner house.
I don't own where I live so it's not my place to say. However, I think people doing things like that are merely looking after number 1. If he acted with respect he could still extend but without negatively impacting other people in the process and there wouldn't ever be a need to even risk any disagreement.
In this scenario with the pub the pub is holding too much sway over an area that couldn't really expect to protect themselves against development. The existence of the pub relies on people living near them. If anything this is an opportunity for them to gain more business and back areas of pubs are not exactly the optimum place for beauty spots or solace for people to enjoy some serenity as they may seek to in a garden at home.
Housing estates are different to city centre buildings though
I dunno mate, having lived in both Dublin and now London. I actually really like the low-rise of Dublin. Once you’ve seen the disasters of overly crowded cities elsewhere (London is a shithole btw, nothing you say will convince me otherwise). Honestly it looks more like a problem of poor use of land with the government selling land to shitty multinational companies that will build overpriced and unaffordable housing. And also there’s too many people centralising to Dublin. Most of Ireland is empty and there’s plenty of cool towns around Ireland that’s also within commuting distance of central Dublin if you still want to be close.
Thanks for bringing a light to this case! Fantastic video. I frequent bonobo very often so i cant wait to bring this up at the bar. The site is north of the beer garden and would have 0 impact on the daylighting in the space. Plenty of lovely south light getting in. Pretty shameless of the owner to be objecting the development that would have 56 new customers delighted to be walking distance from the pub!
What I am guessing is it might reduce there property value. There most be a reason beyond not enough light getting into a beer garden. Which is bollix given that the beer garden would be in the dark for about 4/5 months of the year anyways..
And lit at night.@@Togher01
Perhaps the reason for the refusal on appeal was not due to the appeal submitted by the publican but rather for other planning and development reasons. The video doesn't provide any information on the An Bord Pleanala's Inspector's report.
If people only knew just how scummy a lot of the pub, restaurant and café owners are in Dublin, this isn't surprising in the slightest.
Stop going to bonobo, I'm not going anymore.
Great video, would love to see more deep dives into planning cases like this 👌
I've worked on a lot of developments in Ireland where we literally added a floor knowing full well that our preferred building height would be the result after further information and objections. It's a stupid system, knowing that every time you work on a design, all of that work, investment and effort could be lost because councils refuse to set specific design standards for areas weather through lack of funding or sheer laziness.
Bonobo didn't buy the property to develop it themselves. Therefore they should have little say on what happens with it. These kinds of cases are ridiculous and their reason to appeal is even more so. Install some lights and plants in that beer garten, make it cozy! Otherwise, move your operations outside of the city to a place that is more appropriate for what you have got in mind. There are enough villages around the capital with wide open space and undisrupted shadows for a beer garten. The idea that Dublin "is a low-rise city, and should remain so, predominantly" is nothing more than a personal opinion and should carry absolutely no weight. Stuff like this truly makes my blood boil.
So you don’t like Paris or Barcelona you want a Dublin with buildings springing up in the middle of established heights? No thanks maybe down the dock lands
@@PB111627 Did you even watch the video? Seven floors is normal for any city and actually the norm in Paris, Vienna, Barcelona, etc.
Just what are the benefits of low rise cities? When they grow out rather than up you get long commenting distances and lousy public transport. Dublin compared to other cities of its size in Europe has the worst and least integrated public transport system. Just two tram linea and one light rail line that runs along the coast.
@patrickmccutcheon9361 being able to see the sun and not live in the blade runner universe. And the aging population don’t need to get up 8 flights of stairs every. Complete melt.
Thanks for the ancap rant Alex Jones. Going to change your pfp to the Gadsden flag and talk about everyone should be armed?
Not in my back yard beer garden
NIMBYBG
Iv seen this happen in Melbourne, the suburb gets popular due to the nightlife and appartments pop up everywhere then the occupants complain about the noise and get the pubs shut down
@@splashpitgotta prioritize housing over getting pissed
@@consywonsy at the cost of how many long term jobs ?
Let’s just shut all small businesses down and turn it all into housing or fix the real problem of un sustainable immigration policy
The main argument for many people against new construction in Ireland seems to be the changing skyline due to high-rises. In my opinion homeless people dying on urine soaked streets is a much worse sight.
It makes you wonder, if it was squatted with tents.....? Like the canal...
honestly, I couldn't give less of a fuck if bonobos beer garden doesn't get enough light. dublin needs more housing and trying to stop it from being built for such a small thing is a really shit thing to do.
yes, despite the video trying to be fair to them, the little cutting joke at the end makes it clear that Bonobo are being pricks here,
The Law is the Law , bonobo have the right to want the Law of the land , to be the Law of the Land
@@bobdickweed when bro figures out that the law isn't always right and we can change it: 😱😱😱😱
@@dhjdidieikeke Great idea , but the Bar was still in the right , under the Law at the moment , too much Money can not make good Laws
if millions of people weren't flooding in from the third world there wouldn't be a housing shortage in the first place
The system is designed to limit new housing units coming on stream because it is so so so important to the government that house prices generally, do not begin to fall. If house prices begin to fall, some people would default on their mortgages, due to negative equity. This would put pressure on the banks which would be less likely to loan, leading to fewer people buying and further declines in house prices, leading to more defaults and so on. But limiting supply is just one of many tools the government is using to keep house prices on an upward tradjectory. A big problem, (from the government`s point of view) will inevitably arise, as mounting market forces will eventually overwhelm the government`s ability to rig house prices. Our national debt increased by nearly 200 billion since 2008, to close to a quarter of a trillion today. This was a six fold increase from where it was. Most of this was used directly or indirectly to re-inflate the house price bubble that the market was trying to correct. Should house prices fall, that inflation will come out of housing and go elsewhere, such as foreign assets, consumer prices, etc. We will still owe the 200 billion Enda Kenny borrowed, it`s just that we will have nothing to show for it. Not even high house prices. We could re-design our planning system in the regionalized way suggested in this video, but if that happened, the government would simply re-design it`s market rigging mechanisms to ensure it`s ultimate goal of ever increasing house prices continues. Reform will not happen by design. It will be done onto us by factors beyond our control and because the government is acting in it`s own interests and not ours, the sooner international market forces wash over and overwhelm our government`s ability to create inflation in the housing market, the better it will be for everyone.
Shockingly even-handed and well thought out. Great job
Absolutely adore this channel, watched all your videos in one sitting. Would love to hear your take on the transmission system/electrity grid and challenges we have to meet our renewable energy targets. Obviously so many of the challenges we face are alligned with that of housing and the planning system being broken.
Thanks a lot. Yes we hope and plan to get around to the energy grid in coming months
Great video & good forensic analysis of the problems we face to overcome our own housing crisis !!
Thank you, just thank you so much for doing research and presenting this. You're an asset to ireland.
thanks a lot
Imagine if New York or Hong Kong were low rise. Would they be as inspirational and powerful?
It takes guts to build big projects. Low rise is another way of saying’no balls’.
Great video, we definitely need less restrictive planning laws,
I live in New Jersey and we have a some of the restrictive housing laws. It is difficult for developers to create new houses, which lowers housing availability and pushes up rent. What I don't see is that if these governments know prices are an issue, why don't they decrease restrictive laws?? Both NJ and Ireland are highly sought after locations, so why don't they scrap these laws and make these areas even more attractive??? >:(
I do agree with you and do find the situation that came about in this video ridiculous, but I don't want there to be no appeal mechanism, because in other situations there may be valid concerns.
I think the problem here is that the decision came down to one person to say yes or no and there's no democratic representatives involved, or any transparency apparently.
If in this example instead of it just being one pub appealing the project but everyone in the locality then we'd probably say the plans need to be looked at and a compromise reached. If it has been a children's playground being sold off and built on, for example, then I might have more sympathy, but it wasn't, it was a stupid beer garden, that in Ireland probably wouldn't have been able to be used because of the weather most of the year!!!
There aren't actually any laws preventing the construction of the building; in Ireland, if there are no objections and the building is within code you can build whatever you want.
The problem, in my opinion, is that Ireland doesn't actually pre-plan areas and place those area plans within a legal framework.
Development is entirely developer led rather than being driven by housing need. This along with an anarchic system of appeals means that you have a system where you never know what can be built anywhere. It makes it incredibly unpredictable and expensive for developers (a lot of whom are local authorities themselves) and wastes an enormous amount of time and money when we can least afford it.
I personally wouldn't mind if someone said 'right all you can build there is three stories in brick'. Then I wouldn't buy the site and waste €100,000s on architects and engineers fees.
Because that's a good idea and common sense thinking. They mostly likely have some self-serving incentives to not do so at the expense of the public.
@@mattpotter8725 Isn't there something larger wrong with the system though? Because these things aren't pre-determined by democratically elected local authorities decisions end up being arbitrary, all development is developer led and all risk for an the success or failure is pushed onto the developer who passes this on through the eventual rent/purchase price.
Surely an element of legally based master-planning with public consultation would lead to an accepted set of design standards. This would then remove the element of chance from a system and lead to quicker design and build times. This is a needless bottleneck that could be solved by pro-active planning system.
I don't live in Ireland anymore and where I currently live if a developer buys a site, they already know the density they can build at and the materials and standards that should be used before they even purchase that site. It basically knocks 1-2 years off a comparable construction project.
completely bonkers. That building was completely reasonable. If anything they should be building higher. "Dublin is a low rise city, and should remain so". We already have some of the worst public transport links of any major city in Europe. Following that thought process means continued outward sprawl, served by no public transport. It's so frustrating that these objectively soft complaints (in the context of a crisis) are allowed to continue. People talking about protecting the Dublin skyline as if its one of the 7 wonders of the world! It's two chimneys, the spire, liberty hall and a lot of cranes! Build up a and do something redevelop derelict plots.
That organisation is really doing a good job of protecting that heritage building... the absolute state of it
A friend of mine just pointed out when I shared this video with him: the proposed development is north of the beer garden - there would not have been excess shadow.
Amazing that ABP thinks the better option is continued dereliction of a prime city centre corner site.
No one really believes Smithfield is the second coolest neighbourhood in the world. Not even the second coolest in Dublin. And to have objections to housing based on a beer garden is laughable.
After coming across 30 floor residential buildings on Taiwan, the low rise nature of Dublin is so myopic and brain dead
Dublin is not China. I mean Taiwan
@@liamo8932 Can you not, wumao?
That is a very insightful take on the reality of being a property developer (i.e."improver"). The potential occupiers (or owners) of these apartments have no voice or representation at decision time. Many LA Planners are venial and short sighted with very few who are pioneering. As so often is the case in Irish life, many of the key decisions will be made by one sole official or judge.
The rights of the protected building don't go seem to go as far as stopping it remaining unused and derelict
Why would the owner of a pub object to 52 apartments being built next door 😂
These residents would be the ones who will object to any noise coming from the beer garden. People might like to have pubs in walking distance, maybe at the end of their street, but not next door (and certainly not under their balcony or bedroom window).
This is why new built homes are so much more expensive. Not just the suppressed supply but dealing with the bureaucracy and the risk of failure. It ineviteably means the margins of developers need to increase to fund it all. That also means only big firms with deep pockets have a fighting chance to get anything done.
Imagine this was you, your personal bet on the future of Dublin and the potential of the piece of land you bought for a fair price after studying the development possibilities. Wtf would you do now? Probably declare bankrupcy, lol. 😂
great video, it deserves to be shown during any discussion on the issue
now we know not to go to Bonobo
Fantastic video. I hope this gets more coverage. I sadly left Ireland for the last time because of the lack of housing and opportunities. Irish youth deserve a lot better than what they have been given since 2008.
thanks and good luck overseas
Brilliantly produced video. Pity we can’t have an intelligent government allowing high-rise development and multiple occupancy living like they do in proper countries or alternative models such as cohousing like they do in Denmark etc. Greed has destroyed Ireland.
Dublin could be an amazing, vibrant city, especially after Brexit. Instead the greedy of landlords is transforming it into an unlivable place.
Rents are high and even higher in most other Capitals. Even Lisbon, Portugal have higher rents and they earn way less than Irish workers. Fact. London is crazy expensive. Paris is expensive. New York, insane prices etc etc etc.
Dublin is crazier than most other capitals, I thought. Anyways, you're right it is a global problem, but at leas cities like London, Paris and New York are denser and proper cities@@Prodrive1
London is more affordable than Dublin
And much more of a global city. Dublin's prices has no excuses @@liamo8932
Why on Earth would the political establishment consistently take measures that ensure sky-high rents? It's almost as if most of our T.D's are landlords.
The real issue is investment funds buying up all properties and politicians all been landlords. The property shortages means higher rents and higher profits for them. Fact
Great video guys keep it up!
You get it.
Great production and video, subscribed.
Very well said and put together information! Great video.
Infuriating story.
ABP is obviously quasi-judicial, but is the council’s planning department not also acting in a quasi-judicial manner when dealing with planning? And ABP can put conditions on approvals granted as part of an appeal, can they not?
Brilliant explanation, thank you.
Glad it was helpful!
Well done, I was a builder for 42 years and stopped in March 2023, the system is infuriating and against self employed and small developers.
Crazy. Ireland is just crazy. I live in Belgium, a country with quite the opposite reputation for its haphazard and sometimes less than stellar planning, but yet we have way way WAY more affordable housing in a much more densely populated place. I consider the occasional ugly high rise a blessing, and would take that over unaffordable housing any day. Seems like a bit of a ridiculous trade off
This is another great contributor to the state of our housing: NIMBYism.
Who decides Dublin is to be a low-rise city?
It’s been decided it’s a defacto reality!
@@PB111627 Yes, but decided by whom?
@@Ricky_Baldy By the people that built it and many of the buildings that were built are the reason people come to visit the city. Can you name me any buildings built in the last 50 years people come to Dublin to see?
@@PB111627 To answer your question, I don't know. You'd have to ask them.
And if this video shows us anything, it is *not* the builder that decides how high up a building goes. It seems anybody can object. But, the flaw in the system seems to be that only objections are heard. There is no facility to measure support for a building from those in the locality. It's a deeply flawed system and must change.
@@Ricky_Baldy You go to DCC offices ground floor to make “An Observation” the observation could be a letter of support for the Application OR it could be an objection. It’s usually the latter.
You should look into Meeting House Square. We paid north of 100k for big fancy umbrellas that broke and now because nobody can agree who takes responsibility for the break we are letting a square that cost millions go to waste. Just something I found out recently. So stupid.
Hey your argument is super interesting. Please consider changing from presenting a comparison of many countries using a line chart instead of a bar graph (it's super confusing-it visually communicates a continuous line where instead it's discrete data points!)
All the design work is shifting to before planning application, which then has to be revised multiple times as it's rejected and revised. Dublin is slow but at least somewhat communicative. Limerick planning by contrast is absolutely impossible.
Real Irish should not be living in boxes… rise up Celts and take your land back
Dublin IS a low-rise city but cannot stay that way. It won't change without an elected board with long-term goals in mind, not corruption and profit. What individuals can do so that will be changed, is what myself (and many others) are unsure about.
I once again remind you all that there are 180,000 vacant dwellings in Ireland - this problem of objections to new buildings is totally blown out of proportion and building new buildings to house people is wasteful both in terms of money and damage done to the environment. And as we've seen TIME AND TIME AGAIN new buildings = new properties for vulture funds or foreign banks eg. 232 new apartments built by the government on the old Stillorgan Leisureplex site immediately bought up by AXA-Kennedy Wilson and ABP mandated that they be rented out for 15 years to "solve" the housing crisis. AXA charge 3000 euro for some two beds and 1750 is their average rent in contested RTB cases. Do you think the best option is to let the "future owners" decide then? The future owners are going to be big foreign banks who couldn't care less how our cities look, and once again, objections to city councils are not the issue. It's hoarding of housing that's the issue.
Great podcast with a great in site into Ireland's planning laws ,a law rife with corruption money and back hand dealer ,with the now well known brown envelope brigades
Not a word about Ireland's shadow government
Great channel! What are you thoughts on incentivising the refurbishment of existing but disrepaired urban properties? It breaks my heart to walk down any town or city in Ireland, and see window boarded up or dark and empty along main street, over shop fronts, etc. It's like out towns are spreading outwards but rotting from the core. I'm glad we're moved away from urban sprawl and green field development, but surely there's a case for using whats already there. If the exterior of an existing structure isn't changing, the scope of planning permission and potential for rejection greatly reduces. In addition, refurbishing empty buildings would provide more plentiful small accomodation for individuals and young people, increase competition between existing landlords which should drive up overall quality of accomodation, and also increase the footfall for local businesses. But for some reason, it doesn't happen. Is the cost still higher than new builds? What am I missing?
i live in and one an apartment adjacent to where they would build. I had no problem with the plans. but upon hearing of the size of the complex I sonically laughed to my other half saying good luck dealing with the nimby's
Reminds me of "Listed buildings" in the UK, tons of proposals all turned down for bizarre or antiquated reasons and in the meantime, the building is empty, dangerous and collapsing.
If the developers engaged with locals and kept within planning guidelines there would be less issues
The original plans looked so good, ngl.
Your channel is very good
Excellent decisions who only inconvenience developers' profits.
Smithfield? Cool? 😂😂 Yes, very cool to have people live in moldy brick flats
There's also the rural problems with APB. It's not a bad idea to counter one off houses, where you're only able to get local planning permission in an area you're from - preventing people from buying and building status houses in the middle of nowhere.
But in the case of Kian Egan, of westlife, bought a house that was a new build, demolished all but a few internal walls and doubled the footprint, bypassing planning restrictions on the right of natural views. That house was part of a chain, where one house was granted an extra sized footprint so his sick relative could live his last days where he grew up. It was for sale the year after completion. Same area where Marc McSharry managed to get approval for a house that was built on the footprint of an existing 19th century home with a drive exiting onto a double blind spot.
Down where my brother lives, he knocked a bungalow that belonged to the late father in law but wasn't granted permission to build a house of the same footprint as it wasn't in keeping with the character of the existing 2.5 4 bedroom houses in the area.
The problems described here are definitely one from the centralised and Dublin nature of the planning department (seems a little less flaky in cork and galway), but hopefully a regional department structure could help correct the rural and the urban wonkiness in the planning approval
This video is unbelievable
8 stories is not high rise.the council should be building developments twice that size
"Stakeholders". There's no stake here. You shouldn't have a say in people's lives and property. You cannot deny housing for dozens of people over minor nuisances
I am confused as to the housing problems in Ireland, because I hear there are tons of empty houses, and houses half built and abandoned after the big crash, but now there is a devastating shortage of affordable houses to rent or buy. Partly is it people owning two homes that they are holding on to as investments, or holiday homes, or Airbnb rather than renting them out? Why doesn’t the government finish building those half built houses? How can the objection of a bar result in 52 apartments not being built? How can that be one person’s decision? Surely that is super open to bribery? Also, Why don’t they have the young men refugees finish building those unfinished houses, and then be allowed to live in them, instead of packing them into hotels in tiny towns where they are not welcomed and leaving them with nothing to do. I think most refugees would prefer to be working instead of idling for the years it can take to get their case heard.
Great video! Well done again!
Developers want less regulation, proven many times that more is required
I’m liking your videos as they’re very informative on the working of public sector.
However, just a tip - you sometimes stray into territory which isn’t exactly true. A Judicial Review is explicitly NOT an appeal, for example. It’s an issue brought before court (for which you must be granted leave) and only concerns whether the procedure carried out was done so according to the law - it has nothing to do with the decision itself and is not an appeal of same.
The solution. Is glaringly obvious.. change the planning law. Remove or severely curtail the right to object. The isn’t complicated…
We wrote the law so we can rewritten the laws!
Fantastic videos! I would be glad if you could explore the "cost-rental" approach to development financing. The approach in Vienna seems particularly applicable to a mid-size European city like Dublin. There is a flagship scheme for the approach in Emmet Road, Inchicore.
I agree with all comments in this video
They probably weren't intended for the local populace anyway.
"Dublin is a low rise city", yikes, self-interest masquerading as principle
Living on the edge of a national park... No planning permission is granted around here except on the main road. Meanwhile every farmer around gets two free massive 2 story sheds and put them up wherever the fek they want, for example right beside my house. An bord planála are a corrupt organisation consisting of old farts doing favours for friends and corporate lobbies. Dublin city council badly needs to create real community spaces, it's a big of the reason the inner city is so rough.
There us an awful lot more of vacant properties left to rot and the majority paying zero vacancy tax/fines
Short sighted of bonoboo to object. They somehow neglected to take account that 50 apartments in most instances means 50 more families, and 50 more husbands drinking their wages in the pub every weekend.
Thay pub made a decision to object to 52 new customers aswell as all the customers that would have came if high rise presedence was set
People who own houses vote to keep supply of houses low
DCC hate the fact that people actually live in the city. They're so insufferably stubborn and regressive. Travelling abroad and seeing how other cities are governed is a real eye-opener when you compare them to Dublin.
Can't find his source/figures, but David McWilliams on a Blindboy podcast episode pointed out that "Copenhagen has footprint of Dublin between the canals, Copenhagen has population of 600,000 in that footprint, Dublin 100,000. Not a high-rise dystopia, intensively used city of six story buildings." Six stories is mid rise at best.
outrageous
Build more buildings as high as siptu building and corks tax office so that we can house more people
Big Government (authoritarian socialism) v small democratic government. Guess what way we have been going ? In this case I wonder, which developer owns the pub and the inspector and wants the whole block and vacant site to develop ?
Maybe another option would be start building offices not just in Dublin. But I'm guessing this housing shortage is all across the country. Government is busy protecting their woke ideology, rather than working on real problems
That bar-owner must have beeen down in his cellar all night stocktaking when he refuses what would probably be an increase in affluent locally based footfall likely to refresh the community over time in multiple ways.
Knee-jerk nimbyism hits the top shelf.
A housing crisis is good for landlords, property developers and the wealthy. All governments in a capitalist society primarily focus on the ability to accumulate capital, and of the concerns of the capitalist class. There's no conspiracy, it's right there in front of you.
Community and tenant organising is the only solution to the housing crisis. Join CATU Ireland
I find this so dumb, the ammount of people coming in to the country to seek workand a pub dictats a decision for rent like what the actual hell
So a race to the bottom of grey tower blocks made of pyrite, where are the green spaces for the people who will live in these shoeboxes. Is every new build to be this ?
I dont agree that we should have a split planning body , i do think their should be a local appeal , and an board plannala should be for proceedural appeals and national interest projects ,
The courts should be exclused from planning issues except in extreme cases ,
A regional planning board would likely be just another layer of bureaucracy, changing how the bord work may be a wise idea though,
But... like... the apartments wouldn't have been blocking out sunlight and loads of the people living there would've been in Bonobo very regularly????
anyone frequenting Bonobo should have a hard look at themselves
the current goverment is going to find out the hard way in there old age the consequences of whats happening now as many young people are just giving up or leaving
Benobe owners want to purchase the land themselves and then they will increase the amount of apartments and include licenced premises at street lever.
Great example of the absurdity of the Irish planning process. Every action has a consequence, and while the right of the individual stakeholder should be heard, it should not be permitted to trump the common good. This is only one decision by the planning authority(ABP), but it illustrates how the building planning system actually works, and every development for new high density buildings must run through this gauntlet. Result, Bonobo, the lone onjector, had their say, but society has to pay. How is this absurdity not a national emergency? Ppl are out blaming landlords, immigrants and developers etc., but their justified anger is directed at the wrong parties. The real culprit is the government who set up this subjective, opaque, time consuming obstacle course that is ABP.
Look at peer countries and compare.
Holland has a population density of 521 ppl km2. Ireland is a mere 73 ppl km2. Similar level of wealth and income. The Netherlands is 7x more densely populsted. Are homes there more expensive? Yes. But only 30% more (average price for a used 3 bed home on a national basis, both countries). Solution: Create designated zones, in DUB and other cities where high rise developments can be built. Also, create new towns, with high density residential structures, with parks, walking to shops etc. Tax derelict building owners, forcing them to build productive structures. There's tons of land, use it. Stop blaming excess demand, which is simply evidence of the country's economic success. Instead, boost supply.
Bonobo did not make the decision. ABP is the independent arbiter of the common good. This process worked precisely as the system intended.
@gavindaly2401 I understand that. But how is the common good served by this nonsense? There are no objective written standards for new construction that I know of. It seems developers must submit plans, and hope for the best. Then, one person can object. Just one ! And it seems progress can be stymied by someone saying " Dublin is a low rise city" , so nothing higher than has already exists can be built? None of this serves the common good. It's the very definition of narrow interests, not the common good. If developers cannot build, then new homes will continue to be too expensive for young ppl to buy.
The pub feared their beer garden being closed and possibly their whole business once the apartments were built from objections, noise etc.,from the new residents.
ABP does not have a great recent history. A leopard doesn’t change its spots.
Sounds like its time for bonobo to experience serious property damage