Why the Caste Census is important
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- čas přidán 9. 09. 2024
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Aug 27, 2023 01:07 AM IST
Caste system will not go back because it is the base of hindu.if this goes then so called hindu dharm will be destroyed.
You mean hinduism aka bamanism yeah Im okay with it
Definitely if the caste system will be eradicated Hinduism will be eradicated in an obvious way.
And Brahmin don't want that.
Bro how will it affect Hinduism?
Reservation is about representation and representation is about democracy.
1:14 I am a govt employee's daughter. Let me tell you, a similar rule is already there for OBC people. If your father is joined govt services in class 1 or 2 rank through reservation then children are not eligible for reservation but if he joined class 3-4 rank (low rank) services then children are eligible even if the salary is more than 8 lakhs. (Usually the salary of employees of rank3-4 only reaches till 10-12 lakh (peak) before retiring.)
Oh aisa hai kya.. mujhe laga ki creamy layer alag type se kaam karta hai but I was wrong
@@user-hl9jq8iz4i non govt employees k liye 8 lakh limit hi hai. Ye rule sirf Central govt employees k liye hai
In an ideal scenario without any oppression or marginalisation since all these centuries, there shouldn't be any discrepencies with regard to the population to the socioeconomic presence of communities. Meaning according to the caste census that was published in 2011, SCs are 18.45% and STs are 11% of the population, so the representation of these communities in various aspects of the society must be proportionate. But since that's not the case, reservation is given based on what is the actual presence and the deficit percentage is provided as reservation. But the thought is that even after providing reservation, there is a significant gap in the proportions and the "upper caste" population is still disproportionately occupying more of these sectors, hence the demand for publicization of the caste census. More the representation of a community, lesser the chances of discrimination because there is a natural tendency of community members to favour their own communities. This is the reason behind reservation and this is the reason financial background should not matter. I would suggest to have a look at videos made by Dhruv Rathee and Soch by Mohak Mangal for better understanding of this concept.
One could also argue that those marginalised families which are in a financially stable position right now should have been further up in the socioeconomic scale if not for the discrimination their ancestors faced since centuries, and hence reservation is justified. Their better economic position now doesn't change the fact of their denied opportunities. It just means those ppl reached that position with the limited amount of opportunities they had. This is what it means when ppl say equality of opportunity should be considered and not equality of outcome. When discrimination was based on caste, why should reservation be given based on financial grounds? Therefore the endpoint should be proportionate presence of the communities in different sectors of the society and not financial stability since it's not charity which is intended for the 'poor', it's kind of an undo button intended for equality (meaning proportionality) among different socioeconomic strata for the marginalised communities.
I’m for caste reservations, and this isn’t my argument just that I don’t know what should bet the response to this argument.
As soon as we tell UC people that end goal should be proportionate representation of people according to their population, they bring out the merit argument, while forgetting that the merit that they think they have because of their caste is solely because of the fact that they had resources and LC people didn’t . But then they say okay even if proportionate representation is there, how will we solve underperformance in fields like Meidicine, engineering,etc where they argue that progress will suffer on account of supposedly “under qualified “ occupying positions of doctors engineers policymakers etc.
@@jhaipi90 Before I answer, one thing I would like to clarify is that terming it as "lack of resources" is like giving them a clean chit on the casteism front. It was not just lack of resources, it was the result of systematic and serial oppression and elimination of the marginalised communities by the so called "UCs" for more than 2 millennia (might be even more) from schools, dignified workforce, temples, and so on. They weren't even allowed to hold wealth in the form of land since all these years. This is in fact reservation that they have enjoyed for millennia. This led to the present skewed distribution of wealth and education towards the "upper castes".
Coming to ur question, underperformance will only be an issue if there is lower criteria set in professional colleges specially for the lower castes which is not the case. An Engineering, Medical or any other degree would be handed only if the students satisfy the minimum qualifying marks in professional exams for that particular degree which is same for every caste and creed. So how do we call the "lower" caste people as "underqualified" when they are also qualifying just like their oc counterparts? We also see OCs often failing in the university exams, so what do they have to say to that? One more glaring problem with that stupid (sorry for the wording, but I just can't) argument is that the so called Engineering and Medical seats could actually be purchased with huge sums of money from private colleges. So why are the "UCs" not having a problem with that? Where is merit there? The people joining on management quota just need the minimum qualifying marks on the entrance test and need not even bother getting a rank like the "LCs", so that is a much bigger problem considering their so called merit argument, and yet they remain silent, why? Let me tell u why, cuz the management quota only benefits them since the marginalised communities cannot even think of that kind of sums of money, another reason reservation is absolutely necessary.
Even if u look at the US, race and ethnicity is considered a major factor in processing the educational applications so that universities have a diverse group of induviduals. Marks are not the sole criterion for selection. See why that is? If that was not a criterion, their Universities would be filled with white males. So why is it so tough for the "UC" Indians to accept the simple fact that progress means progress of all the diverse groups and not just the privileged?
To top it off, there's an article in "The Print" titled, "Supreme Court just destroyed the 'merit' argument upper castes use to oppose reservations" by Anurag Bhaskar. I suggest u read it for better arguments in terms of what 'progress' of a country actually means. When people from a marginalised community get into prominent positions on the socioeconomic scale, they pave way for the other people in their community to prosper (that's how the UCs got and still get an advantage over the marginalised) alleviating poverty in the community which eventually leads to a more fair and diverse society which is a major part of 'progress' of a country.
For example, it actually took an educated Dalit who occupied a position in the Govt to alleviate the millennia of pain other dalits had to through. It wasn't a UC. They were happy with their position as well as the position of the dalits. Remove reservation, lose the position and they'll show their true faces again. Echo chambers are never good for the progress of a country. reservation is meant to heterogenise the socioeconomic structure of the country. Wouldn't u call this progress? Same goes for doctors and engineers. Every caste has a tendency to appoint or recommend or favour their caste members, so UC doctors on setting up their clinic would favour an other UC leading to further increase in socioeconomic disparity, but when dalit doctors with their clinical setup offer jobs to their marginalised community members, it simply leads to reduction of the socioeconomic disparity, also contributing to alleviation of poverty in the country. So whose education do u think will actually help progress of the country?
@@xyzydoucare Yes, I'm sorry I forgot to write that it wasnt just lack of resources but a systemic oppression by the supposed UCs, in the name of purity nonsense n all.
thanks for the suggestion, will definitely read the article.
Also, I think if the reality of caste was taught from schools and explained why reservations are a thing, what is actual merit, people would have had more empathetic view on reservations.
The general category people dont even realise that their only struggle in life is "college ya sarkaari naukri me ek seat", they have no context of the caste discrimination faced by DBAs, the closest they face something similar is racism in foreign countries.
They simply reject the idea that anyone even was discriminated, they reject the idea that social or cultural capital is a thing.
I think I heard it on Vimoh's channel, that the savarna caste people can be made aware of power structures better when we explain it using discrimination against Indians by the British during colonial periods.
@@jhaipi90 Yes, I also wished that the school level education better handled the issue of casteism and better explained the rationale behind reservation so that it didn't fall on our shoulders again to research and explain these things to these people. But I don't think the situation is getting any better. In fact, I suppose it's getting much worse. I've heard that NCERT brought in new changes to the social studies textbooks (class 6, I guess) so that the description of the sufferings of the manual scavengers have been edited out completely. And the amount of people that don't even understand what a 'caste census' means other than 'it creates a divide' is just further discouraging. And then there are people that openly oppose it altogether, meaning they know how it works and do not want to bear the brunt of it when it's out in the open.
Another argument I often use is to compare it with how women were systematically oppressed and how it led to their lower representation as well in society and how therefore their 33% reservation is justified in their eyes. Gender based discrimination is not much different from caste based discrimination. They led to similar outcomes, yet somehow, one is better understood and more welcomed than the other. Like no one ever brings up merit or financial base arguments for gender based reservations (which is a good thing), but hope they were more open wrt caste based reservations too.
Anyways, more unabashed voices are definitely gonna help. I'm glad to have found another similar human in the comments treading the same waters.
south africa reservation in cricket for BLACK PEOPLE
@@truthseekerhuman aisa bhi hai kya?😯
koi suppress nahi horaha, ulta wahi log royal life jeerahe hein.
I don't understand that why these people always say that reservation is not for economic progress if this is the matter why these people ask reservation in private sector. Reservation is a political tool that will be used until it becomes 100% and the real beneficiary will never benefit from this so called reservation
Wouldn't it make sense to have an economic criteria within caste based reservation? Say a poorer dalit should have preference over a richer dalit even if the richer dalit may have scored better. Since seats are limited , eventually only the relatively better off Dalits would get almost all reservations as they would have better access to resources which allow them to score better marks.
Offcourse rational thought, that will not fit within Indian left discourse which vimoh supports
It effectively reduces the representation as we can see in the case of OBCs since the implementation of creamy layer. It does more harm than good as education keeps getting costlier making it inaccessible for poor dalits.
Moreover budget does not solve discrimination problem for dalits they get denied rooms, rations, lawyers, police, healthcare even if they got the money.
I know many people who earn well above 2 lakh per month through gov. Jobs. First their parents then them and then their children are also using caste to get easy seats in gov. Institutions. How is that fair when as an obc barely creamy layer, I cannot get any benefits. Shouldn't every reservation be removed except economic and pwd¿
So support the caste census demand. More data will help
Bro,what's your point on ,obc category where only 10 to 20 are getting benefits of reservation out off 3800 community,in Muslims only asraf getting benefits and pasanand not getting anything,do u not thing implementations of reservation is important ,increasing reservation ?
So the logic behind revoking reservation of a guy whos parent benifited from it is that they have taken advatage of the thing and have been uplifted to some extent, when allow their children to par take in the same Reservation quota, its taking a seat away from a less well off member of the same community/another faimly that could have been uplifed rather than just one family using the system we can uplift more of the community.
Another quetion/query I had was, do you think Reservation reduces castism or fuels it?
Found you through science is dopes podcast thingy on agnostic atheism, that was a nice one.
1. Seats go vacant so lack of seats is not a problem yet.
2. In a casteist society money doesn't solve the problem, a lawyer can deny you even if you can pay, making it hard to get justice. Same thing happens at shops, pharmacy, police station, houses on rent etc.
3. Reservation is not the solution of casteism but the ill-effects of casteism. Lets say 8% 15% 27% 33% representation for ST SC OBC women respectively is required to ensure an ecosystem where people of these communities will be able to exercise their rights and these respective representatives will not subject them to caste or gender based discrimination.
Realisation that casteism is bad is the solution of casteism.
But do you think reservation will help in decreasing cast based discrimination?
Maybe not...But it'll ensure that these communities at least have a means for upward mobility and get better education regardless of the discrimination they may face.
Hindu ek hain 😢😢😢😢😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅
@@neerajvashisht5364 I think one of the best ways to decrease cast based discrimination is to ban cast based housing , buildings or housing societies, localities etc
People of different casts should live in the same place
Be that upper cast ,lower cast, daliths etc
What do you think?
@@ashwinvk4124 roti beti ka rishta jab tak nhi hoga tab tak kisi baat ka koi matlab nhi hai
@@aishwarykalosia7129 हिंदु सिर्फ और सिर्फ नस्लवादी हैं, नस्लवाद हिंदु धर्म की रीढ़ है, नस्लवाद खतम तो हिंदु धर्म भी खतम.
'Economic benefit' ko aap criteria rakhte hi nahi hai because it slightly softens your argument. But economics is an important driver of social change and vice versa.
I am not against the main point, that Census split based caste is necessary to drive better decision. And nor am I rigid caste boundary supporter.
Ambedkar ji's books on Economics are of equal if not of higher importance than his works on discrimination and caste.
That's why I wrote the first line.
Don't be selective in softening the importance of economic to keep the firmness of yiur point.
Please discuss all things that are practical.
Criteria nahi rakhta kyunki wo criteria nahi hai. Reservation isn't about financial upliftment. There are other schemes for that.
OBC reservation is based on socio-economic criteria.
So that's why there is Creamy layer thing. Once OBC is wealthy enough they can't get reservation.
But in SC ST, reservation is based on social status (centuries old oppression) so there's no Creamy layer.
And one more thing Reservation is all about population based representation. Without Reservation 20% upper caste will hold 80% jobs and seats in higher education.
And this will lead to revolt only nothing else.
@@adb3414 well said.
"Garv se bolo
Saarey hindu ek hain"
Nahi 😅
Garv se bolta hu main dalit hoon.
Never I'll better die
@@vegaz4966 hindu kaho apne aap ko. naaki dalit. pakistan mein jog 11% hindu the woh saare dalit hi the. aur abdekho 1.5% hi reh gaye hain. bangladesh mein bhi saare dalit hindu hi the. 1972 mein 15% the aur ab 7%. saare dalit bharat aagaye kyunki woh bhi hindu hi hain naaki dalit. jai shree ram
@@tanishqkumar1250 lage haath ye bhi bta do hindu hoke kya ukhad liya.