Blind test reveal! Orange Rockerverb vs Line 6 Mandarin Rocker!
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- čas přidán 6. 09. 2024
- Thanks for watching this reveal video for the Orange Rockerverb 50 MKIII tube amp vs Line 6 Helix FW 3.10 Mandarin Rocker digital amp model.
Watch the original blind test here first: • Blind test #3! Orange ...
Could you hear which one was the real amp in the original blind test? Let me know in the comments down below! Thanks for participating everyone!
Watch my full review/demo of the Orange Rockerverb 50 MKIII here: • Is The Orange Rockerve...
Purchase the OwnHammer Heavy Hitters Collection Volume I here: www.ownhammer....
For more information on the Line 6 Helix, go here: www.line6.com
Thanks for watching! Please drop a comment down below as I'd love to know your thoughts! Also subscribe along with the bell and follow SDS at:
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#orange #rockerverb #helix #comparison #blindtest #mandarinrocker #hxstomp #helixnative #ownhammer #tubeamp #rockerverb50mkiii #reveal #settings #tutorial
why no one speaks that riffs are so awesome? I really like it!)
I'm gonna be honest your videos are why I bought the HX Stomp and the Ownhammer IRs. Line6 should be paying you.
Thanks! That's awesome! Enjoy your gear, IRs and tones!
I thought b sounded better it sounded like it had more power to it. Turns out it did because it was the 100watt version hahaha. If you did this with the 100 watt head you probably be spot on with both. Line 6 is an amazing company they really nailed this.
Fyi I’ve been using line 6 products since 2005 with first being the verbzilla
Damn B was the Helix? That's surprising to me because I thought that one had the natural low-end rumble real amps tend to have, while A had that high end fizz that modelers always produce. I am super surprised, but it sure makes me happy to own Helix Native. I cannot believe modelers have gotten this good. I use to be able to tell the differences easily, but I guess I can't anymore haha.
Yeah, people associate high frequencies with modellers for some reason. Actual amps have more clarity and bite in my experience.
@@harmonicseries6582 I think people associate high frequencies with modelers because that's generally how it went. Take a look at the Line 6 POD, Guitar Rig 5, or even Axe-FX 2. All of them had this high-end fizz that was distinct with amp modelers 5 to 7 years ago. In my experience, the Axe-FX 2 had this extremely distinct artificial high end. I use to be really good at detecting when someone was using the Axe-FX in a comparison video because of that high-end.
But nowadays it is essentially gone, especially with the Helix. The amp models are so faithful it is so hard to tell the difference, at least to me. The high end matches the amps pretty perfectly.
The high end fizz is what gave the amp away, just those tube nuances that the helix can’t capture. (I’m a helix only user, don’t think I’m knocking it!)
I had no idea which was the model but much preferred the A sound, although that's mostly because it was brighter and punchier and cut through better, and I've spend enough time mixing to know those are generally EQ-related tweaks that depend heavily on the exact settings used.
Exactly what I thought. 😎 I wrongly guessed that "A" was the Helix. "B" definitely needed a bit more treble to brighten it up, make it sound clearer, and cut better.
Wow. The artifacting came from the amp. I’m a little shocked. But not surprised. Good job both you and L6
This video was what just convinced me to buy a Helix Floor and replacing my rig with it. So far so good, loving it so far. Thanks!
got it right, probably because i've had a helix for almost a year and have used the model. thanks for the preset being shown.
i fell a little more information on the high end in the A sound, what it's not a problem, B sounds killer. But in a full mix, i can't tell the diference. honestly
I was right! Woohoo! But damn, Line 6 is knocking it out of the park.
Also just want to comment, when I watch your videos and my wife is free, she always drifts over to listen to you talk. She lived in Holland for several years, and your accent takes her back happily. Love your work man, beste wensen!
Haha awesome! Dankjewel! Is mijn accent zo slecht dan? :( ;)
@@SonicDriveStudio Hahaha not at all, it's fantastic :)
I'm very glad that I was wrong. The Mandarin sounds amazing. IR's are doing a really good job too.
I've always found that the Orange tone is darker without a tube screamer, but in all of your tests you achieve a very powerful and balance tone, just with an amp head and good IR's. I'd like to know how you process the bass and drums lines, because I feel that doesn't in mask the guitar tone, but gives the right place to shine with no other post-prosessing.
Hi, I love these 2 videos. Very fascinating how close they are. What I would also find really interesting is to have the comparison between a real tube amp with a real cabinet and a real mic and a real preamp VS a simulated tube amp with a simulated cabinet ... I wonder how much of the similarity comes from the fact that on both the Cab-Part is simulated. Do you know what I mean? But thumbs up for these great videos!
This channel is gold, thank you so much for sharing your knowledge with us!
Time to consider those modeling amp platforms. They've made so much progress. Great vid as always!
Hi John, first of all let me thank you for taking the time and effort to create such great content !
2 remarks:
- for me (even though i didn't comment on the first video) the "turning point" in guessing which amp was which is the part you specifically play at 4:03 in this video since it mixes alot of different notes+cross distortion and this is very difficult to achieve digitally since it has to reproduce very complexe electronic interaction in the real amp. Take a carefull listen and this specific part is really (well...) different from A to B on the guess video.
- as i'm a scientist, i'd like to see with a spectral analyzer (what you get when you set a parametric EQ) the result of the substration of the two tracks (you can do it with changing the phase but i guess you know that :-) ). The result is really how far the emulation is from the real deal. that could even be an objectiv cretaeria to tell if it is close or not.
-> i'de be interested in having the "not compressed by youtube" original tracks (or at least a bit) to try that.
Cheers from France
That's very surprising! Right from the beginning of the A/B comparison I was sure that A was the Helix without even hearing B. And even after the switch I was convinced that it has to be that way. Funny thing is I found A was missing that organic feel a bit but it turned out I was completely wrong. Great job Line 6.
In the comparison video I actually prefered the Helix version. A bit cleaner on the low end imo. Good to know. Love your vids man !
Interesting eh guys? As I'm writing this, 88 of you thought that A was the real amp and 87 that B was the real amp! What do you guys think?
That pretty much tells the story - and you have a sufficiently large sample size to demonstrate this across a variety of playback systems. When it's this close, all you can do is guess.
I'm consistently amazed at how accurate L6's modeling is. Honestly, I know all the Fractal Bois will jump at me for this but I think L6 is best in class with respect to ACCURATE modeling (Fractal may provide more 'pleasing tones' / feel because of compression etc.)
Absolutely amazing, well, let me start with saying that I was wrong. And after the reveal I now switched sides and I prefer the real amp. That tells me how much of my impression of tone is in my head. I just want to play and listen to the real deal. Even if in a blind test I prefer a Helix. :o
Thank you, John, that was eye-opening!
The crispy crunchiness of the Orange gave it away.
I have been pretty good at picking the up but I was wrong this time. I thought what sounded better was the helix and I had playing around the entire a little smug thinking I had gotten rid of my urge to buy a rocker verb. I’ll just add it to the list of wants.
I’m the mean time the helix is still killing it.
With their over sampling upgrade, Helix sounds so much more alive and realistic now than ever.
Many people say they cannot hear the difference, but it's obvious to good ears.
Great comparison.
Great song and great playing!!!!
Another sick demo!
It sounds so close that it wouldn’t matter which you used
I know I'm commenting a little late in the game but I just watched all your blind test videos back to back. You can choose to believe me or not but I'm proud to say that I correctly guessed which ones were the amps, on all of them. I must say though that, this Orange comparison was the most difficult one to identify. I'm listening through some Sony wh1000xm4 headphones. I can't make a clear decision in the band mix context but when I hear the stand alone sounds it becomes evident which one is the amp. Needless to say that all the sounds are very close. I think that's in part due to the fact that you are always using impulse response cabinet emulations which I think bottle necks your recordings into sounding very similar. I would also like to see you throw in some real speakers into your tests. After all, real speakers are a huge part of great guitar sounds. I like to think that there is no perfect amp, just great combinations for creating different vibes. Either way, keep it up sir, your videos are great.
Phewww....my guessing was right(based on a slightly more present high end), but they sounded so close i'd be very happy to have my guitar sounding on the next album with that mandarin emulation...great job John and Line 6. What a great time to be a bedroom player!
Exactly the same for me. The high end was more present...
I couldn't tell the difference watching the original on youtube on my home theater system. I just now listened through my studio monitors, where I could actually hear a difference (and I was right, though it was only because A had more pleasing transient treble harmonics, and B had just a little too much bass). But, I couldn't tell on anything other than my studio monitors -- both sounded great elsewhere.
I could tell A was the real deal. It’s easy for my ears to hear the dynamics of the tubes vs the more flat characteristic of the modeling amp. I play on Neural DSP stuff every day, and while they and Line6 have gotten the tube saturation sound down pretty much perfectly, there is still that issue to do with dynamics that is a bit lacking (that I’m hearing). It’s pretty subtle though.
I was so sure and i was right, the real tube amp has a little bit more analogue warmth, Helix sounds a little bit more "digital". But you`re right, it is really close. Ordered a Rockerverb 50 MKIII BK today, can`t wait for it :)
well, i hoped A was the amp, but though it sounded a little to awesome to be a real amp. but chose B as it felt a little narrower in tone. so i'll go into the wrong corner. A was an amazing tone and my favorite.
Keen for this amp model to be added to the Pod Go. We only got the Diezel VH4 a month ago so hopefully I don't have to wait too long for the next update. Great demo mate.
Wow I actually had it right. With some nice headphones and listening closely I could hear a tiny bit more compression in the response on B, beyond that it's insanely close. If you didn't know to listen for it you'd never know and in a mix it would would sound identical.
Watched the previous video just before watching this. The only difference I could tell is it felt like there was more compression from the line 6 helix on the single notes than the real amp had. Such a small difference and could probably be dialed out with adjusting the sag or whatever parameters the helix has. Crazy close...
Damn, I wanted to be tricked. Even though I've never played an Orange amp, I could still tell which one was real tubes being slammed and which was a model. The fundamental and first-order harmonics on the Helix model are way more bell-clear and consistent in a way that sounded uncanny valley to my ear. There were also more even amounts of low and super high-end 5khz+ information on the "A" track of the real amp. If I had to put my finger on something else, the transient response of the modeler was a bit quicker and more uniform as well, but as you said in this video that could have been due to the 100W vs 50W headroom difference altering how they sag/compress.
I wouldn't have been confident enough to bet $1000 on it though, so hats off to the team at Line 6 for this amp's model.
A bit more low-end at the palm muted chugs of A made me like it better... But either way outstanding work for L6, and to Orange for designing such beautiful monster amp...
ps: I remember a clever saying from a forum, loong time ago, in the years of XT... i will paraphrase..."if there's even a slight debate of what is real and what is not, emulation succeeded with flying colors"
Thank you for the videos, exactly what i was looking for, looking forward to explore them all..hoping to find the Terror Stamp..that small beats seems megainteresting..!
Have you tried Oranges in Amplitube 5? i love them all
I called A as the real amp on the other vid because it had more clarity and brightness. Both sounded great and the Line 6 one sounded very close. I would use either in a mix. Jon, these videos shows why you are the best on CZcams for these comparison vids.
Wow...50-50. Actually your video showed that the discussion about amps vs sims is all about personal preference :)
To be fair - lots of bands are using modelers of some sort on albums or live. Never heard anyone saying that their sound sucks, and I'm talking about big names: Metallica, Slayer, Def Leppard, Avenged Sevenfold just to name a few.
When I'm recording/producing bands I'm using whatever is convenient at that time...no one would ever hear anything wrong anyway by the time the album is done.
only reason I was able to guess correctly is cause A had a lot more clarity in chords. When it came to chugging they sounded identical
I recently started to consider the HX Stomp just for the Rockerverb amp sim, I decided to watch your video in order (Versus and reveal) and it totally fooled me, I was absolutelly sure B was the real amp mostly because I noticed a tighter bottom-end similar to what I can hear in my own Rockerverb (except mine is the 50w version) I assume speakers and IR has a lot to do with it but I´m glad to see I can get that sound with the HX Stomp without hauling my real amp (you know, aging sucks). Great video.
Very interesting test and awesome riffs!!! Thank you...I was very curious to know which was which...😊👍🏻
Thank God I heard the difference, had me nervous
Funny, initially I thought in the demo mix A was the Helix, because B sounded darker. However, when soloed, B sounded more processed to me somehow, then I changed my mind and said B after the video. The reason I found this interesting is because when you look at it, it really didn’t matter! Sure you MIGHT be able to tell when soloed, but in a mix you can’t determine it at all.
Thank you for this comparison. Line 6 is really doing a great job!
I'm kinda baffled. Usually, there is a certain characteristic in Line6's models. With the Rockerverb, they somehow managed to get rid of it. I was completely wrong, since I thought the real amp was B. We got the Rockerverb on the Pod Go lately and yeah, it's one of the best simulations I've heard on this platform.
wow, amp is much better! (only when I can see it)
I’m about to give up. The last two of these types of tests I guessed on I got wrong lol. I though for sure the Helix was A simply because it was a little brighter and defined and usually that one is the Helix.
This made me try the helix free trail, its also making me want to sell my rocker 15.....
Really enjoying your work. Love, love your guitar playing. Keep up the good work! TT
duuude.. I really thought B was the real amp.. holy molly :) thanks for the comparison and video!
I was right, but they sound so close that in a mix you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. We're getting ever so close to amp modeling being indistinguishable from the real thing. Maybe the first to do it will be the Helix 2?
Late to this but I guessed correctly mostly because there was something different in the “chime” of some of the higher notes in the Helix. If you had stuck to the lower strings I don’t think I’d have known. I have played an Orange for thousands of hours and that chime just stood out on B. In any case they both sound great, and this is still not the same as any of us playing them live in a room.
For me the only giveaway was the octave slide you do at 3:58. With A I felt I could hear a bit more info on the high end in there, it was a tiny bit more dynamic to me.
Other than that, completely identical to my ears.
I wonder what the difference is experience wise. Editing audio/video compresses the sound. Uploading to YT adds another layer of compression!
Wow, I liked B better and that makes me happy because I own a Helix :)
Do a blind test with Rockerverb and Super Crush?
Woow Thank you for that 🙌🙌🙌
This time the real amp finally sounded slightly better than Helix, but maybe because it was a 50W version. Helix sounded rounder and not so tight.
Hi!
Really nice rendering, I'm especially astonished by Line6 result.
However I have a stupid question. How did you get this nice stereo rendering on either amps (real and simulated)?
As a guy who has just bought the Rockerverb, I'm relieved that I guessed right... Sound A had better hi & low end to me, but that was not the main difference. "Depth" and "transparency" of the distortion, those are the real advantages. They did sound amazingly close, tho. Like, kind of when you change all the tubes in an amp from Chinese to Russian.
A slight win for real amps as it did sound slightly better to me but it was close.
Great work mate! Very entertaining and useful
Hahaha I though B was the real amp due to it being woolier like oranges are 😂, it's amazing full stop
I'm late to the party. Love these kinds of vids. Gonna post my guess here since the guessing is over already. Also before I watch the results of course.
A Helix (had slightly more high end to it which could have been how it was dialed)
B Amp (I could only really hear it on the isolated tracks, but it seemed slightly more fuzzy and had a certain ring on the palm mutes. Not really a feedback, but something similar)
I honestly preferred tone A though since I liked the added treble... I would be happy with either one.
EDIT: well damn... I was wrong hahahaha
I was late to the party on this one so before the reveal I went back and watched the first video. I was right about A being the real amp. There are some key differences that clued me in...
A had a more open sound, the top had a nice air/bite to it and the character of the distortion was cleaner.
B had a congested midrange, the top was muffled and the character of the distortion was less clean. Overall B was a little muffled. These tend to be the characteristics of Line 6’s modeling.
All of that said, outside of the comparison the track with just the Helix sounded damn good.
Close enough is good enough for the audience and me
This is the channel that taught me how to mix and master tracks :))
still learning but progress is progress
They are so close, so kudos to Line 6 - but in going back and listening it's easy to hear how A has more depth and full sounding.
I still prefer real amps.
Nice my ears still arent wrong even through ipad speakers.
Haha same here. But my guess is that phone and iPad speakers are very middle heavy. So you can „easily“ hear the region where the modeling amps are struggling.
@@jenyahp2828 big time
These were great videos. How about a shootout using a real cab? Maybe run the HX stomp into the fx return of the Rockerverb then compare them.
It was clear))
Jon, You have amazing ears. Do you use a tone match eq to help you out? Every one of your modeler videos is so close to the real deal.
Thanks! No I don't use eq
Nice, I was right (although I didn't comment so I can't prove it lol). That said, while I enjoy these comparison, I find it akin to looking at videos of cars going around a track and trying to guess which one is electric and which one is petrol. I know I can record and gig with my Helix and no one will know or care (well... my bandmates don't enjoy the Helix but I think it's more about the lack of a guitar cabinet on stage and the push it gives), but I also know that for me as a player there is a difference in feel and that is enough for me to continue wasting money on old technology.
There is little to no difference in feel through a power amp into an actual guitar cab. Try it out - astonishingly close. That speaker/cab forms a big part of your tone - both sound and feel. I don't know why people waste time with all this FRFR nonsense.
@@onefiveeights152 Oh I've been down that road too, I was still missing some clarity and transparence compared to a real tube amp (I do play simple vintage style amps that give a straight connection from your strings to the speaker). But curious to try again with the improve audio fidelity of the last Helix update. Also recently got a Waza Tube Amp Expander, which ironically can double as a very good power amp for a modeller.
I wish you would play the blind test one more time before showing the results. When you separate the answer video from the test video by many days, I usually forget what I picked and why.
Damn I saw wrong. That sounded great.
Glad I found you on CZcams, really liked these! So, would you mind telling me where that white tele with hums came from? Thanks
thought so was a tube amp, only reason being, ive been using my helix now for over a year with it being my main source of amp sound and ive noticed the helix models do have a certain element in the mid range compared to other amp modelers/real amps/preamps. they all tend to have a certain pulled back feel in the midrange. that tbh is only thing i noticed between the 2. still negligible difference to someone who isnt use to the helix sound like someone that uses one daily.
Hey John! Tell your cat I said hi!
Lol, I don't have a cat but I'll say hi anyway
@@SonicDriveStudio maybe it’s time you adopt one!
Lol
So I guessed correctly, and I think the reason is that models always tend to be just a little more "gainier" than the real deal. There's so little in it though and in the mix it was extremely difficult to call.
Yeah they sound similar. In the first video, I though A sounded better and it turned to be the real one :P
@Sonic Drive Studio any chance you can share your preset or settings?? I have been having trouble getting the rockerverb model to sound this good. I managed to get a great sound out of it with a boost in front and the cali EQ after the amp block but it no longer sounds like a Rockerverb.
Nice one, the real amps has a bit more definition in the high end compared to the helix model.
Thank you for this, and thank you for sharing your settings. What would you change on the amp block to give a little more definition to the attack of your playing? I've been liking the sound of pushing the Bias setting higher (or to the right), but I don't know if that comes with other drawbacks maybe that I don't hear right away.
Ahaha, I get you! You revealed it today because of the King’s day in NL and this is your contribution to ubiquitous orangeness😂
Lol
Hello. Could you make a video about audio interfaces? I have focusrite solo 3gen and my sound seems to suck, more often than not there is just not enough gain to make the ampsims sound juicy ((
Yeah! I was god-damn right! :D
Hey great job! Love your CZcams channel. Any chance you'll make a video about the Mesa Badlander? Thanks and keep on with the good work
Thanks! I'd love to but Mesa would have to send me one and I don't think that will happen anytime soon... Never say never though!
1:56 I laughed so hard XDDD
I guessed it right as I could hear the textures of the Orange and knew it was A. They sounded the same but there was some harminics or texture that went away with the B or Helix as it sounded more transparent or something. The A orange had that texture like you could feel it. Hard to put into words.
Sounds amazing John! I have the axe effects 3 and remember that you said they must’ve done a different model in the axe 3 than the actual rockerverb 50 because it didn’t sound anything like it. Is there anything in the axe 3 that sounds like that orange rocker verb 50? Or maybe somebody did a tone match that I could download?
Have you upgraded your firmware for the Axe to the latest Cygnus version? It’s supposed to be much better than previous so maybe it’ll sound closer to you?
Listening to flat audio out of computer into my mixer into my Line6 L3T and L2T monitor set up there is not enough sonic difference for me to even attempt to discern between A and B. 99% of people in a live setting would not be able to tell with proper amplification. The proper IR seleceted
I was right
This settles it. We need an Orange shootout. I'm pretty sure you have all of the Orange amps, right?
got 'em 😎
Yup/ I thought it was A- But I play this MONSTER everyday- But Damn The Helix is so damn close/ Modeling Amps have come a long way- Great job/ excellent.... But I'll stick w/ my MK III
I. Was. Wrong! Dammit... 😅😅
There's no shame in that! It just shows how Line 6 is doing such a great job!
humble pie is yuuuummy. Helix sounded better to me in this case
yes! i was right... and...ähm... yeah... it was totally knowledge and ears... and had nothing to do with luck :D
Yyeeessss!!!
I guess!!!! :D
I liked A better, but damn... they were to close to tell
Are you very sure😪😪😪
Are you a robot? You sound like one, lol