Mountain Men vs. Mexican Settlers : The Carson-Fremont Killings Of 1846
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- čas přidán 6. 10. 2023
- On the shores of The San Francisco Bay, in the summer of 1846, one of the most famous men in America guns down three Mexican citizens in cold blood. The killings are ordered by Captain John C. Fremont in response to the murder of a pair of their countrymen by a group of guerilla soldiers terrorizing the area.
These tragic killings, occurring within days of each other, will be the first blood spilled in the war for California that will take place between The Bear Flag Republic and the Mexican government. The war will go on to change the course of history for both countries, and expand the legend of both Carson and Fremont.
But what led Carson- the darling of the American press- to such unflinching obedience, and such an act of unbridled brutality? And what drove Fremont, the staunchly ambitious and unapologetically jingoistic commander, to issue such an order resulting the deaths of three innocent men who had nothing to do with the slaying of Fremont’s countrymen?
Join HOKC for an in-depth look at this disturbing and little known story from the annals of American history. Only on History At The OK Corral : Home Of History’s Greatest Shootouts & Showdowns”.
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Your video tells of the complicated motives and actions of historical figures. Any study of Fremont will uncover his egotistical and callous behavior. Carson’s career, while adventurous has several dark situations, this is one. Excellent video as usual, with a personal demonstration of historical events.
Good points
The more I know about Fremont the more I realize how much of a animal he was . Wat a scumbag
you sir are a masterful story teller, with research that must have been very time consuming..well constructed videos that are entertaining to listen too..if i had a history teacher like you..ty
Thank y'all gguys was very good one! Remember Carson's role against the Navaho and their puttin in the reservation...Best regards from Northern Germany Ludwig.
The lives people lived back then were full of danger. One big open, basically lawless space full of different groups and peoples fighting for control of the space. Must have been an interesting time to be alive.
The ai pics you can go ahead and leave out by the way.
You can still have this experience on a smaller scale by traveling to certain neighborhoods in large American cities.
Hence this is why Fremont executed the Spanish men. They could easily have been spies. They were casualties, or combatants in a war. It’s useful to see Fremont’s point of view here.
Born raise in California.
Public schools never mention or talked about California was once own by mexico.
thats crazy no way. when did you go to school? Its a huge part of Texas history obviously we even learn about California a lil
@@ProphTruth100 sixties LA unified school district
Amazing content! Thank you 🙏🏿🇺🇸
I’m very much looking forward to hearing on Kit Carson’s role in the Navajo War and the Long Walk
This is a delicious rendition of Carson's many challenges.
A few notes: It was always the military of the US tasked to explore, identify,
discover, and claim the lands and their assets of the West.
Lewis and Clark, Pike, Marcy, and the great Emory all led
important expeditions.
If we back up to the Spanish explorations, it was an officer named Anza that
pioneered exploration of northern California, where he found natives
experienced in mining and working gold and silver.
It was impossible for the US to claim discovery years later of gold.
The Doctrine of Discovery had its own set of rules. Only one discovery
of a land of heathens was allowed. Anything after that was simply conquest.
Your description of Carson murdering the D' Haro twins is probably inaccurate. There were few multi shot pistols 1846. More likely are one shot black powder arms. So Carson may have had help. There is talk Granville Swift and others killed the other fellows. As I recall Kit mentions the event with remorse in his biography but uses the old excuse of "just following orders"
2306 Thanks for the additional information about Carson mentioning the incident in His Biography, most likely He had some remorse. In another video the point was made about Carson's loyalty to the American military. In several cases He accepted assignments for the Military when He knew He should have taken time away from Military to be with His wife. Her family raised His children, His wife died in delivery of one of their children..
@@fasx56
Hey,
Thanks for the response and the great history clips you are doing. 👍. I have been researching this era of Ca. history from Bidwells arrival in 42' til abt.1900 for sometime now. The gold rush era especially. I live in Lake Co. Ca. Kits brother Lindsey settled here. I wrote a story that includes many of the characters of the rush. Most of whom were from Sacramento. The article is called the Springer Brothers Saga. It is online but an older version. I have fixed several typos and added corrections and more info plus new photos recently.This story continues to evolve. Will send to you if interested. You are welcome to use any of it.
The murder of the De Haro boys was a sad story of the bear flag revolt. Their father, Franisco De Haro's headstone, says he died of a broken heart.
I saw that the flintlock pistol that Carson carried during the Mexican American war was put up for auction for $25,000 a time back. I Google it.
Thats what the nazi soldiers said. Just following orders.
The results of not having our loving Creator as number 1 in our lives.
I so much appreciate your docu on all these Indians and what you have taught me on the lives of those in long ago who were responsible in settling the west. Thank you 💛
Our pleasure! Thank you for watching!
Another great video!! 🤙😎
Kit Carson carried a flintlock pistol single shot. It was up for sale for $25,000 not too long ago. He must’ve been a really fast reloader or like most stories of this time is not accurate.
Bet he carried more then one pistol. A fact lost to history and a lack of common sense i guess.
@@stevewixom9311 Or, he wasn't the only one of Fremont's men doing the shooting which, to me, would make a lot of sense. Why make Carson fumble around with two or three guns or reload a flintlock when you've got other men under command standing around with loaded weapons?
I love this channel! Hello from Michigan!
Wow amazing work. I actually live near here. Another great episode. Thank you
Near where? Sonoma?
People tend to be a mixed bag. Greatness is often tainted with darkness. I'm sure his spirit broods upon it. I'm a decendant.
History too real for the Westerns. Another fantastic episode.
Hearing about this cowardly murder of those three men I can never see Fremont and Carson as anything than garbage.
Your comment is a bit unfair. When looking at history I always try to look at it through the eyes of the times and culture of the day. A modern view of events that occured a hundred years ago doesn't work. Modern bias always changes the reality of the times. However, the extreme actions of a few will many times supercede the actions of the majority. A milenia ago the world was flat. 200 years ago slavery was acceptable. Times change as do cultural norms. Kit was a product of his time and deserves a break. The D' Haro event was unforgivable but understandable.
Carson always deferred to the pompous, arrogant martinet, Captain Frémont (as he wrote his name), for simple feelings of inadequacy. Carson was entirely illiterate: he only learned to write his name later in his life and Frémont was a graduate of Charleston College and the son-in-law of U.S.Senator Thomas Benton of Missouri. Had Frémont been a more personable man, he could well have been President, as the first Republican Party candidate in 1856. History often hinges on a few powerful figures with strong personalities.
I'm really curious what happened with Carson and Fremont after this!
I lived in this area for 15 yrs and never heard this story.
Good video thank you
Glad you enjoyed it
Thanks!
The Colt Patterson is mentioned in 1842-1843 by Ranger accounts of reloading from the saddle. None of us were there, but here we are now. Mañana amigos.
Its funny how Monterrey was the hub of activity in the early days, while San Francisco was still a humble little village.
They actually picked Vallejo as the original port, b4 discovery of the golden gate …
Vallejo is INSIDE San Francisco Bay.@@user-iy7qk4el9c
I was born in Sonoma county. Santa Rosa specifically. I live in Petaluma now
The more I hear of Carson, the more psychotic and murderous he becomes.
That can be, but then he also roundly condemned actions like the Sand Creek Massacre, with very strong language. He was a complex individual.
Monstrous
It's amazing how there are actually intelligent people in this comment section as opposed to most of CZcams
Alright!
Fremont had several gold mines on northern calif.and the town of briceburg calif on the merced river.He also had some goldmines in big oak on highway 120 heading toward yosemite national park.when he lived in big oak flat.He married a puite indian women from the tribes living around big oak flat.this was later. In his life.
Really? We know that country. Big Oak Flat up by Groveland?
Something about uniforms.... lemmings will listen and obey...... never had that problem...... and always Carry a large caliber revolver for safety 🦺...... love the Show 😍
After our war for independence, it seems, a monarch's claim on land was seen as a challenge, "Come and take it".
I guess they found out.
👍 👍 👍
1:48 that jhon wicks great grandpa😅
This video is a major misrepresentation of facts, large and small. I checked the references for this video and they are very sketchy. The only one of them with any credibility is "Blood and Thunder" but there are earlier historical records that tell the story clearer, "Men to Match My Mountains," by Irving Stone, and "California, an Interpretive History," by Professor William Bean, of UC Berkeley. There are other oral-to-print tomes written in the 19th century as well. I own all of these works. Two are merely opinion papers for current Leftist activism. The three murdered were NOT Mexican settlers, they were Californios, who were not ethnic Mexicans, but Spanish who had settled in California. The war between Mountain Men and the Californios was the historical factual disposition and identification. But Captain John Fremont, Kit Carson, and about 150 assembled soldiers and settlers joined together after the two men in question who were not soldiers but mountain men of the Bear Flag group, named Cowie and Fowler that their leader William Ide had sent to the Fitz Ranch, which was and is north of Santa Rosa, to get some powder, were intercepted by a group of 20 Californios, under the command of Juan Padillo, who killed them. They were set to Join with Castro's forces headed by Captain de la Torre. Fremont determined to take Castro, who had previously insulted him, and ordered him out of California. He became aware the de la Torre's forces were in San Francisco preparing for the risky crossing of the bay. To mislead Fremont, he arranged for a false bit of intelligence to fall into his hands. This allowed de la Torre to land his troops on the north shore. Angered to be outmaneuvered in his first sortie in the new war, when they found the likely sources of the misinformation setting off in a small boat, he ordered Carson to shoot them. There is no record of any comments made as presented in the sketchy articles this video is based upon. No one said that no prisoners were being taken or an outburst anywhere of the calloused nature reported in the articles used by the video producer here. In fact, Fremont had just captured some Californios in Sonoma. According to Irving Stone's report, a captured Californio, an officer named Arce witnessed the killing and commented rather poetically, "California is like a beautiful girl, everyone wants her."
Other errors abound. It was the Mountain Men who quite cordially had "arrested" General Vallejo. As it was, Vallejo supported the American takeover and was respected by all who knew him. He had battled with Castro who was his nephew, the year before. He detested the corrupt and arrogant rule of his young, impetuous relative. Moreover, he was no longer officially a general as he exited service in the Mexican army formally. Fremont, still smarting from Castro's insults, treated Vallejo as an enemy general and took him to Sutter's Fort, which he commanded and put Vallejo and his family in jail there until Sutter was able to get him released. Mexicans who were not settlers of California in any sense until far later. From very early, the Spanish were cut off from any land approach due to hostile indigenous tribes. Because of that, the only approach to California by the Spanish and later Mexican rulers was by sea. California was seen as remote and primitive so Spanish setters in Mexico had no desire to go there, and the Mexicans were not settling anywhere, not migrating at that period of time beyond some parts of Texas and New Mexico (territories of Spain, Mexico at the time) as Arizona was uncrossable. The Mexican War in California was nearly a joke. In Northern California, Fremont faced down de la Torre at Olymppi. After de la Torre lost five or six men, he broke off and retreated to Los Angeles, never stopping to rest. Fremont was then met by Commander Sloat at Monterrey and took him and his army to San Diego where they cleared the area and were joined by sailors and marines for the attack on Los Angeles. The Mexican garrison at Los Angeles was 700-strong, more than half larger than Fremont's force, but they broke up and fled in all directions. Los Angeles was captured without a fight, as Monterrey had been.
That California would become part of the United States was inevitable. Under the Spanish and Mexicans, the native population was reduced by 70% by 1846. By the outbreak of WW2, the indigenous population of California had been restored to nearly 100%. After the war, programs promised in the 1850s for managing the tribe's interests which had been interrupted by violence by some renegade leaders, and other little things like the Gold Rush, and the most rapid growth of a nation and state in history, were finally fulfilled. But also, after the war, in the 1960s, the Marxists found the indigenous peoples in the U.S. easy marks for their program of reviving resentments and enhancing reminders of abuse and loss. This video and the material it is based on is an echo and part of that Leftist effort to distort history in order to continue the destructive trend of unproductive perpetual victimhood, and unrelenting blame on the very people who brought all groups a longer lifespan, and a higher standard of living.
Oh ok
The AI images are starting to get weird
Exploratory officer AKA spy 😂
California 1846 was a distant and ignored backwater territory of Mexico. A very sparsely populated territory. There was no Mexican army in California. Nor a Mexican navy at all. There were local militias who’s role had been suppressing the California native population. America conquered California with under a thousand soldiers and Marines
The Indian wasn’t the only savage of the time
Nope white men and Mexicans were just as savage the Wild West was never heroic cowboy vs bandido and savage indian the true Wild West was savage scalphunter vs savage scalphunter
Kit Carson is a personal hero of mine, but he had his faults - his loyalty to Fremont being the prime example. On the whole, America still owes him tribute.
Kit Carson elementary in Sacramento was renamed by a bunch of woke liberals
Good evening good sir.
Thoroughly enjoyed this short film.
Pleasure to meet your acquaintance.
I paired the video with a nice bottle of chianti and a dominican cigar.
Now time for some rest as visions of cowboys and indians dance through my mind.
I bid you good morrow.
🖤💛🤍❤
Keep out of indigenous lands.
Fremont is roundly disliked by every historian and history buff that I have encountered. As for Carson’s killing of three men in cold blood, assuming that it’s true, these were brutal times and callousness ruled. The West was not settled by philosophers.
Fremont sure was disliked so much that they named a city after him!
Mr. Narrator, clearly, by the way that you condemn Carson's actions in a time of war, you've never been in a war and that's probably a very good thing for our country, because only a true coward would make the kind of judgements that you have made in this pseudo-documentary, about a true American Hero like Kit Carson. Shame on you and your video.
It is well documented that Carson was said to have shot these three men in cold blood. They were unarmed civilians. Not the kind of war I would wage. Fremont put Kit up to this as a test of his personal loyalty to Fremont. Fremont was later court marshalled because of his over zealous activities in California. Kit, being the man he was, later expressed remorse for the death of these unarmed men.
Hero to who? The indians? He was a hero to a few white men, I'd say he was a turncoat from what I have read, he turned on all the indians that had taken him in as a friend, not very hero like in my opinion but then again he's an American, one of the least trustworthy people in the world
What's all that goddamn two minutes worth of sports s*** do you think I'm going to sit through that crap
It's CZcams doing that so settle down and relax. You could have hit the Skip ad button too genius. Or just complain to us about the FREE show you are getting.
@@robertgiles9124 oops
My great great great grandfather settled in Sonoma in 1844. He worked for Gen. Vallejo on his farms. His house, the Nash-Patten Adobe is an historical.landmark, and belonged to family (Zolita Bates) members until the 1990s. Patten St. is named for him.