"the left" needs to talk more abt disability justice
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- čas přidán 22. 05. 2021
- Sources for the essay section (simplified citations in order of use):
Crenshaw, Kimberlé. “The Urgency of Intersectionality,” October 2016, www.ted.com/talks/kimberle_cr...
Perry, David, and Lawrence Carter-Long. 2016. “The Ruderman White Paper on Media Coverage of Law Enforcement Use of Force and Disability.” rudermanfoundation.org/wp-con...
Okoro, Catherine, NaTasha Hollis, Alissa Cyrus, and Shannon Griffin-Blake. “Prevalence of Disabilities and Health Care Access by Disability Status and Type Among Adults.” Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. CDC, August 17, 2018. dx.doi.org/10.15585/mmwr.mm6732a3
Goodman, Nanette, Michael Morris, and Kelvin Boston. “Financial Inequality: Disability, Race and Poverty in America.” Washington, D.C.: National Disability Institute, 2019. www.nationaldisabilityinstitu....
Kafer, Alison. Feminist, Queer, Crip. Indiana University Press, 2013.
Ratto, Allison, Lauren Kenworthy, Benjamin Yerys, et al., “What About the Girls? Sex-Based Differences in Autistic Traits and Adaptive Skills.” doi.org/10.1007/s10803-017-34....
Quinn, Patricia, and Manisha Madhoo. “A Review of Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder in Women and Girls: Uncovering This Hidden Diagnosis.” doi.org/10.4088/PCC.13r01596.
“Racial and Ethnic Disparities Continue in Pregnancy-Related Deaths.” Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. CDC, 2019. www.cdc.gov/media/releases/20....
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it'd be cool if neurotypical leftists would stop using the r slur
it'd also be cool if people didn't call everyone they disagree with "insane", "psychotic", "a psychopath", "a narcissist", "delusional", etc. bitch i'm delusional, doesn't mean i'm bigoted? very different things, thanks
And trust me when I say this, disabled people have a very good understanding of how the world works. They don’t need to touch grass. Constantly fighting for basic needs to be covered, medication, justifying our disability, learning to navigate welfare systems, dealing with ableist comments and beliefs, coping with little to no energy but still having to complete everything an able bodied person does are just of the few things they understand more than our healthier/ more able bodied counterparts. I’d say I have way more life experiences than some of these people
Boom! This right here
And give a perspective that adds at least to the conversation and working places. Dont tall down , but theexare legit important gains from taking people with disabilities serious. Can adress issues for everyone.
This!! 🙏
As a physically disabled person, I did go out for a walk yesterday. I even touched some grass. That night I had to drag myself up a flight of stairs and into bed because my right leg was in extreme agony and I couldn't put weight on it. I woke up at 3 am because of how much it was hurting, and didn't go back to sleep for another 2 hours. It still hurts, and I've been limping all day and am now feeling nauseous from the pain. Going outside and getting some fresh air can be great, but it can also cause serious issues for disabled people
I have had a transplant now (double lung transplant) but some of us literally can’t go outside. Internet was my only connection to the outside world. Yeah, I’d love to go protest, write letters, speak in public about issues but I was too tick and every action took/still takes it’s toll. So had to choose wisely what I do and don’t do. Doesn’t mean our issues aren’t important. To me, social justice is social justice.
I have significant heat sensitivity that often prevents me from going out (besides the fact that my legs don't work well), and it's crazy sometimes how apathetic even offended able bodied people will get about that sometimes.
hey can we talk about ableist language
leftists: respond with ableist language
Literally
Jesus christ do you people ever stop complaining. You get upset of everything
@@Jjjbbb5678 "People with disabilities need to be thrown in to gas chambers and euthanized!"
*Gets hate*
"You guys are so easily offended!"
@@Jjjbbb5678 "People with disabilities need to be thrown in to gas chambers and euthanized!"
*Gets hate*
"You guys are so easily offended!"
@@honestguyintelligent3022 nice strawman. Why do you even bother commenting
weird how people think that identifying as a leftist means they are incapable of perpetuating bigotry/societal power dynamics. also, unrelated, but i love your hair.
I think for some people it's even worse than that; it's an attitude of "Look, I support you having universal health care, so I should be allowed to call you slurs without any consequences. That seems like a fair trade to me."
To be honest, I've almost completely given up on people with disabilities of any kind being supported by the left. In fact, they're probably more ableist than most conservatives. If it weren't for the left, down syndrome wouldn't be discriminated against by abortion laws. Their favorite insult is the word, "retard". As someone with autism, from what I've seen in leftists, most neurotypical leftists probably wouldn't care if people with disabilities were thrown into gas chambers and euthanized. In fact, they would be happy if that happened.
@@honestguyintelligent3022 I've seen many so-called "leftists" actively and loudly support eugenics. They constantly leave ableism out of their activism, they don't consider us. Ive seen people write "minorities and disabled people" as if we aren't a minority. The way we are treated in general is disgusting, I'm tired of fake leftists' ableism
@@honestguyintelligent3022 Keep in mind "the left" is not one group but so many different. Very very diverse, and you and generally only the loudest are mentioned.
And like any j6st as comparison, you dont judge any group by their worst only.
Not saying it shouldnt be adressed, and it is adressed but likely smaller. I follow nekosuris who, his partner is very inclusive and there is inevitable, she is a veteran with stuff. And generally i think chat is talking. There are left people talking about it just , its overall a stigma with a lot other things.
Jusr with down syndrome, i think its fair making sure a mom is really ready for that. Thats kinda justified.
I think they acknowledge that but still think addressing ableism will "split hairs" or scare more people away from the left. It sucks.
Really enjoyed hearing this! As an autistic and mentally ill leftist these are definitely things I’ve been thinking about for a while. The peak moment for me was around a year ago when this clip was going viral on leftist twitter of a dsa meeting in which someone literally just asked for basic accommodations to their sensory issues. the almost universal response from the online left was that it was “cringe” and “embarrassing” and “making us look bad”. I remember in specific one very grossly, explicitly ableist comment like “you can’t even handle people clapping but sure, you’re gonna start a revolution.” This combined with other things from both online leftists and liberals (like calling Trump autistic and insulting his body, queer communities pushing the rhetoric that “there’s nothing wrong with our brains” above everything else as a way to distance from neurodivergent folks, certain lefty streamers saying the r word in every other sentence and defending it with “edginess”) kind of made me feel very unsafe in the online left and it’s really nice to see someone else acknowledging that this is a problem!!!
i think a big part of it is that disability is treated as individualized and medicalized and not as a social justice issue, so even leftists who are decent and not class reductionists otherwise don’t incorporate anti-ableism into their analysis. like you were saying re: feminist theory. abled people have gotten away with so much by doing that, and we need to directly challenge that
"I remember in specific one very grossly, explicitly ableist comment like “you can’t even handle people clapping but sure, you’re gonna start a revolution.”"
And what is your rebuttal?
@@Ryudo916 hey! You aren’t entitled to a debate on this.
omg THANK U i remember that, i was so confused why 'leftists' were just blatantly hating on autistic ppl, those reaction vids gave me such a bad feeling
@@Ryudo916 Stfu. Y’all fr act like disabled people haven’t been revolutionary.
@@Ryudo916 that everyone has a part in the revolution.
That a revolution is not just this violent patriarchal warfare against capitalist fantasy, but also a revolution in how we relate to one another.
A revolution towards caring about one another which is in stark contrast to the individualism so prevalent in our current society
Let me add: using detached from reality delusional etc as insults is itself ableist, so saying go outside you're detached from reality is ableist on multiple levels.
Omg finally a great excuse not to study for my maths exam
Math is for nerds anyway /j
Wait, yall need an excuse?
AP statistics?
@Emese Ungvári Math's great when it is explained well, but if one has a curriculum like mine then you're just fucked like 60% of the time.
Maths is based, school is not.
in my experience, discussions online abt disabilities seem to be VERY heavily focused on only adhd and autism (im not sure why its only these two. it seems every single leftist is autistic and/or has adhd. i know i do lmao). its like a lot of these leftist dont know or care about physical disabilities and only care about their personal special interests and stimming. and even then, this particular type of leftists throw "extremely" autistic people to the side (the ones who are 100% nonverbal, need assistance 24/7, have violent meltdowns, ext). and they talk so much about how theyre so disability friendly, but they won't even learn basic sign language to talk to deaf people irl.
Yeah, I'm autistic and I am learning asl and honestly it's been really fun. I guess learning a new language is exciting for me. Society should do way better than simply saying "ableism is bad". Like, the phrase "actions speak louder than words".
As somebody who grew up with adhd and ableist based trauma I find this upsetting and I completely agree with you. The disabled community is constantly left out of progressive conversations and most of the time when we try to speak up for ourselves we’re made fun of and are looked down upon. I follow Hasan but I haven’t been on Twitter in forever and didn’t hear about all of this until now and needless to say I am very disappointed. I follow him because he does a pretty good job at summarizing political events and issues without getting too confusing. He has done stuff before that had me raise an eyebrow but this is unacceptable. This is why I am so scared to ever bring up the fact that I am neurodivergent even in “progressive spaces”.
One thing i wanna share (as well as exemples of my own experience) is how people online in left spaces seem to simultaneously look down on online activism (while doing it themselves). I think in a way that its a bit insensitive. I am not physically disabled but i am autistic as well as having mental illnesses that are very disabilitating and the only kind of activism i can do is online.
Here's a few exemples: i cannot go to protests due to my social anxiety disorder and overload sensory issues, i cannot work amongst associations due to, again, social anxiety but also a severe depression that just make me unable to partake in any sort of jobs, i cannot donate because well... im so mentally in a bad place that i cannot have a job and therefore i have little to no money, i cannot confront bigots or debate them irl due to social anxiety and cptsd. And finally, i overall cant do anything due to having symptoms of paranoia and very bad intrusive thoughts. I try to do my best with being as much as an activist i can be online but there is this anxiety-inducing thing about individuals that keep asking me if i actually do things irl, discredit the work i attempt at doing because "im not actually doing anything" as well as lately i keep seeing videos on my feed talking about performative activism online (which in itself is indeed a problem and needs to be adressed but..) in most of these videos they dont adress the fact that activism might not be accessible to everybody and just urge their following to "question people being activists online and asking them what they actually do for their communities".
I wont stop doing the things i can but this has kinda made my anxiety and paranoia tendencies go worse in online spaces as well. I think its another way the "online left" is being dismissive of disabled people in a way.
(Its also important to note that while my reasons of activism not being accessible irl to me due to mental disabilities, physical disabilities can also make it hard to access these irl spaces.)
The edit was made because when writting this comment, i didnt finish the video, i ended up finishing it just now and everything i said does go alongside the video, i just wanted to erase the part were i state i did not finish it, because now i did.
I just want to say whatever you do that you can handle to positively affect the world, it's worth it. I appreciate you. Whatever you can do is perfectly enough!
This sounds like a you issue. Online activism is near useless most of the time and therefor you are near useless to the movement. Dont expect people to pat you on the back for posting a tweet just because you cant handle the real world.
@@Jjjbbb5678 yay, telling a disabled person that they are useless! Also i recently learned that i might be physically disabled too, that somehow makes what you said worse
@@laurentcathery273 i never said you are useless. I said you are useless in a movement where being there in real life matters 1000x more than posting on twitter.
@@Jjjbbb5678 i dont even have twitter pal. Also there is plenty of activism that was done online this year due to the pandemic. Like events were organised online, comferences were done online, speeches too, awareness was spread online like tons of movements gained visibility due to online activism. Stuff being online also made it more accessible to not only disabled people, but people with low income too. Zines, magazines, journals, books...etc were all costly and now you can find similar mediums being shared for free online. Sure, real life things do way more too, but you have no rights to say to someone that they are "near useless for the movement" just because they told you they couldnt due to disabilities. What in the fashist rhetoric is this,,,??
"i'm not saying they have to be led by disabled people"
okay but as a person with spina bifida, i'll take up that mantle and use my limited voice to say........... i WOULD say they should be led by disabled people.
deplatforming every non-disabled person to replace them
@@graveyardpansy i'm not sure that's what i said but i'm also not sure you're saying that's what i said
and also if that IS what you're saying, why does this feel like an exact and direct 180 on the point you were trying to bring up by making this video?
@@billyalarie929 look at the tone indicator, I think he agrees w you
@@fishflopper7k i'm not sure what you mean by "tone indicator" i'm so fucking bad at the internet i'm sorry everyone. EDIT: i looked all the relevant info up and i retract my interrogation of intent because i understand now
@@billyalarie929 the /hj means half joking. He’s not actually saying he wants to deform non-disabled people.
as someone who is autistic and also has had type 1 diabetes for 10 years, i've noticed that the conversation around disabilities on the internet is focused on neurodivergent people, often ignoring physically disabled people. i think that ex. destigmatizing autism is very important, but the discourse surrounding autism is usually about super trivial and chronically online things such as whether or not ppl should use tone tags on twitter... first of all, that is not a pressing issue for any autistics in real life, and there are many other things ppl could do if they actually wanted to help us. but i also think that disability discourse should remember physically disabled people way more, because people are literally dying from ex. insulin being too expensive in the us and i've seen almost no one talking about it.
I honestly can’t stand most ‘leftist’ streamers omg I can’t believe that happened to both of u :( thinking about how I’ve seen cis ppl tell their audience to forgive Kalvin Garrah. I completely agree that leftists ignore ableism, a specific part of disability I also think is particularly ignored is intersex ppl! As a nb intersex person I completely hate how so many ppl only want to acknowledge intersex ppl when it’s used as a gotcha moment against transphobes but don’t actually want to engage with the problems that so many of us face.
You bringing up kalvin made me realise that he was immensely ableist but rarelly was called out for it. People jumped quickly on adressing his transphobia (which is good) but most people ignored his use of the r-slur, or forgave it upon realising he had adhd (shocking /s news: reclaiming a slur doesnt mean you can call others said slur). (Tw: description of ableist actions) Also he literally accused a disabled person of faking their illness, said their wheelchair was "wasted on them" and kept calling them a "transbled". I rarelly saw anybody call him out for that...
@@laurentcathery273 Brennan and Copshatemoe did call Kalvin out on his ableism. The person that was targeted almost lost their benefits, you know the person's only means of survival because they can't work.
@@hailsateen9219 yeah some people did call him out but its nothing compared to everyone who called him out and left that out. And yeah i know they almost lost everything... thats horrible
OH MY GOd THANK YOU for aknowledging the whole "gotcha thing" some people have no idea about intersex oppresion
I think it won't be resolved until we all incorporate intersex people into discussion of the lgbt+ community every time. I saw one place write lgbtiq but on my end I mostly try to discuss non lgbt+ people as cishet allo and dyadic because it's a privilege many of us don't acknowledge and an area where we've done too much to exclude you. Ie non lgbt+ people =cishets when there are intersex cishet people in the community. Really hope more people listen to intersex activists and start including you!
As a disabled person (I have multiple disabilities) SO MUCH THIS! I feel like we get ignored so so much.
1) I too use freckles to disguise my acne 2) thank you so much for chatting about this, I am constantly baffled by the amount of ableism I see online in supposedly leftist spaces and it’s super gross
Saying "instead of focusing on ableism in laguage, focus on the people actively attacking them" gives off the same energy as "I don't care someone was hateful to you, there are people who are dying."
Update: I've successfully healed through almost all of that stuff took over a year.
I'm autistic and the stigma surrounding it has left me in ruin, given me school trauma to the point that I can't read books anymore, made it so I can't even enjoy my own interests without feeling guilt, and left me on the edge of breaking down constantly to the point that I need constant validation just to function. None of this would've happend if people could comprehend that I can't just turn off my issues and that mocking me, yelling at me and punishing me instead of just backing off causes actual harm. To then go online and see everyone make fun of it in the exact way that lead me to self harm back when I was a kid is infuriating. I can barely leave any specific safe spaces without seeing someone making fun of some kind of disability. I experience it in person just as often and it hurts. People think that it's no big deal when they do it but it can cause real harm and when people make fun of it I feel all my experiences are being invalidated.
I was not aware of that person, and I am so angry on your and Korviday's behalf. I am a disabled trans guy who is posibly a lot older than both of you. I fully agree that many leftists online ( and off in my experience,) are very ableist and get very defensive when people point it out: It's so frustrating because it makes a lot of disabled people reluctant to get involved with leftist politics for the reason that they don't feel welcome.
y'know i've never thought about 'touch grass' like that. i've always seen it used/used it as 'stop simping for this fictional character or inanimate object, or in the case of a/b/o meme discourse, and i wasn't aware people actually used it in serious arguments. that's wild to me. yeah language has so much nuance, it's way too complicated for noises we make out of our throat that for some reason affect so much in our lives god humans are weird
and i went off on a tangent nvm
you should make one of the xenogender defender designs with the xenogender flag where the flag goes!!
ur so smart I will absolutely do that 💜
@@graveyardpansy omg you replied to me i just wanna say youve been like such a big inspiration to me
As a xenogender, thx
@@hq4287 ofc, i am also a xenogender 😌
Hasan, like so many debate bros, has a BIG ableism problem. I watched a few of his clip compilations that appeared on my recomended and he constantly calls people psychotic (or maybe it was psychopatic, can't remember and don't want to check. It's ableist either way), mocks Kaitlin Bennett pecause she shat her pants (she is a terrible person, but mocking people for that is ableist. there are a mountain of things to criticize about Bennett without resorting to ableism). I can't say i'm surprised with how the online left treats disabled people, but i'm certainly disappointed.
He uses both psychotic and psychopathic AND delusional as an insult . its very disappointing
Personally I think it's fine to call someone's beliefs "stupid" or "psychotic", as long as it's their beliefs you're criticizing, and you're not making fun of them for actually having a mental disorder. I also think the "go outside" meme is fine, when people say that it's directed at people who get overly invested in online arguments, and isn't directed at people who actually can't go outside because of a disability. Promoting disability inclusion is great, but I don't think getting mad at people for saying the word "stupid" or "crazy" really does anything to advance that.
@@webdesignerguy no one is getting mad at the words stupid or crazy, its just indirectly attacking both disabled and psychotics by using microaggressions like those, even if that wasnt the intent. just like ashton said in the video that language can be nuanced, there are a million other ways to get the same point across without the expense of disabled or psychotic people
@@webdesignerguy it's ableist in the same way that calling something you don't like gay is homophobic. if you say someone's beliefs are psychotic or delusional, you're equating psychotic/delusional to bigoted, conservative or any other negative connotations. People with psychosis or delusions exist, and do not need that kind of association. they deserve to be recognised and have rights, accommodation & help they need. they do not deserve to be used as a way to mock conservatives.
@@webdesignerguy the problem is that disabled people see that and it still stings. Better to criticise things for what's actually wrong with them. Like just saying someone's beliefs are misguided and wrong.
people who aren't in a specific marginalised group often assume everything they see or read is made with them in mind, or for them particularly.. korviday phrased the tweet in such an inoffensive way that could've allowed for some really good discussion, but instead, abled people decided "hold on, i don't understand what this means because i don't have the lived experience to get it, so this must be an exaggeration or a completely made up issue." instead of yknow, politely asking for clarification, since thats what they act like their problem is.
the entitlement these people feel to conversations that don't involve or concern them is so off-putting and really highlights how out of touch they are, how little they care. i'm so tired of these debate bro types of people being allowed to pretend they care about constructive discussion or improving any part of how this world and its systems function.
it is so easy for them to dismiss us as disabled people, i feel like we forever are made to hide away our problems we experience because it is inconvenient for others or unpleasant for them to think about. we aren't given a space to talk about our experiences unless it's amongst each other. the times we are visible, like a tweet that gains a wide audience, we're treated as awkward moments where "Whoops that wasn't supposed to happen, who let this person talk? this is definitely a random thought that people have just come up with and has no context."
it feels like these people can't fathom something not being about them for once. people are going to be different to you, that's just how it works.
eh i don't know where i'm going with this,,, but what you talked about in this video is so important and i appreciate that you took the time to make this.
People say things like go outside to individuals who are terminally online. I say this as someone who was depressed for years people that aren't disabled spend far too much time on the internet which is incredibly bad for both their physical and mental health. Going out exercising is a good way to keep your mental health from deteriorating. Of course its unacceptable to tell a person with a disability which prevents them from going outside to do so.
^This
The thing is for a really healthy society, like really anyone would benefit of an enviroment that accomadates for everyones need.
I mean in ots core its just not streamining everyone which just is better for everyone.
And god how many are undiagnosed due it being there but can be ignored but still would be better to be allowed without being branded.
I've tried going to protests and have found that with my tourettes I tend to just cause more issues and put myself in a dangerous situation? When there high stress and high danger situations like these my tics tend to do the worst thing.
I've kind of taken refuge with online ableism and education but man people hate when you do that.
Hey I went outside touched grass, people still purposefully trigger my tics
Thank you SO MUCH for making this! I among others things am a neurodivergent person who does propaganda from an anarchist perspective. I make it a point to advocate for disability liberation (among other things) and it’s like crying into the wilderness. Thank you thank you for making this!
propaganda is rad, and even more so when it integrates inclusive ideas abt liberation !! keep doing what you do
Wait. Propaganda? Maybe I’m just uneducated, but that sounds kinda shitty
@@AN-ou6qu Propaganda is media and messaging meant to change one's mind and evoke emotion. Nothing more and nothing less.
@@AN-ou6qu Propaganda is a tool, like any tool, that can be used for good or bad. The definition of propaganda is content used to communicate an often political or social message. So propaganda can be good.
"Like crying into the wilderness."
100%
I'm really glad you're talking about this. So many times when I discuss ableism with my neurotypical & abled friends or just people in general, it is easily dismissed. I have Touretttes and I know from experience that this society was not made for neurodivergent people, but everyone puts it onto us to modify our behaviors in order to suit their needs. Some people are uncomfortable with us and are unwilling to be educated. Looking at leftists, I thought I would find solace in their advocacy (or at least more compassion) but this hasn't been the case. Disabled people are continuously left out of the conversation and our experiences are dismissed, but I think the disability and neurodivergent community are growing stronger online and irl. My college just started a neurodivergent club last semester that's run pretty much completely by NDs. Anyway, thanks for the video Ashton and I know you'll be a great mentor for campers!
Me crying with my 3000 vids Watch Later list
godspeed comrade
This was really nice to watch after the first day of going back to school after a failed hip replacement and a month of staying home from the pain. Being in a wheelchair made me feel like an outsider like I wasn’t before, and had basically zero accommodations. Thank you!
I need to like based on the title alone!
Same
For me, anytime I learn someone is into debate it immediately makes me feel unsafe. Because while I understand the purpose of debate (and I respect it because I could never do it with my anxiety), I’ve seen debates on rights of so many minorities and I just don’t feel safe around someone who might debate against the right of a person to exsist. Even if they don’t believe it themselves, I have no idea if they are going to try to debate with me, or what the people around them may do.
I've been saying this to so many people and I just get told I'm just looking for things to whine about. I have given personal examples of very obvious ableism and people don't realise it is because no one cares about us.
This video is great, thank you! I try to avoid online leftist spaces specifically because of the ableism that most non-disabled people seem to not care about. A lot of online leftists absolutely need to work on disability justice, it's something that I wish was more mainstream.
I highly recommend Care Work: Dreaming Disability Justice by Leah Lakshmi Piepzna-Samarasinha if anyone is looking for recs about disability justice!
This has been on my to buy list for a minute
your hair oh my g0d- i’m jealous i wish i was aloud to have hair like that
I would love to see these ppl try to call Corpse a moron and tell him to go outside...
the fact that he has been open about how he was bedridden for at least an entire year in the past but people who regularly consume his content don’t understand how or why “touch grass” is ableist
Hey Ashton really like your videos. Your perspectives on social issues and political opinions are really intelligent and thought provoking. (:
agreed!
hypermobility and autism (+anxiety disorders) has a very high correlation
huh, interesting. Any knowledge as to why?
(I’m autistic and unusually flexible so I’m curious)
@@sandcrab3188 i dont really knwo sorry
It's really upsetting how prevalent this is in online leftists spaces, especially since for many disabled people our main sources of interaction and connection with other people are over the internet.
I've also noticed that many "leftists" with very large platforms seem to have like, a lot of followers/fans that hate "sjws" and you know, like people from minority groups who stand up for themselves. Like a lot of them have fans that will get even more upset and start throwing slurs at people on their behalf, and it is extremely concerning that they don't even seem to care that this demographic is such a large part of their audiences.
Like Idk maybe you should make sure your content isn't easily palatable to a bunch of bigoted people who like to harass marginalized groups online if you claim to be a "leftist"
17:55 I remember this thread! I honestly love this thread and seeing discussions about what “touch grass” even means. Every time someone discusses what it means to “touch grass” it’s widely different but I think a good chunk of those ways are still described by this Twitter thread.
Reminds me of a conversation I had with an online commie about ableist language.
This person had a real issue with the fact that calling people out on their shitty takes and bad actions by using derogatory terms connected to the oppression of those with disabilities, especially intellectual disability was in fact engaging with ableism.
What was really revealing was when we got down to the nuts and bolts it basically went from-
That’s not what those terms mean anymore
To
Well, isn’t there something “wrong” with disabled people?
Essentially isn’t it okay to prop up people’s bodies and minds and conditions as slurs and insults because they really are less than?
It was telling.
I don’t understand how leftists advocate for a non hierarchical society, but also think that people with impairments are “wrong” people- defective less than etc…
I fully understand that a change in material conditions is essential for the liberation of disabled people, but I guess we will have to wait for the overthrow of capitalism before we can start to have these discussions.
Btw I am more inclined to examining language and becoming aware of its ableist roots than creating a list of no-no words and making everyone adhere to them.
Language is just one way ableism manifests and if you are able to refrain then that is great.
Its really easy not adressibg leftovers of a toxic mentality you take over without noticing, thats how people can.
And ideally people chosing to be lefties should be open to that kind of criticism, but i am not that delutional that everyone does.
I know everyone has a different experience. But for me personally, I'm discriminated against a lot more often for my disabilities than my sexuality or gender.
hey, sorry the comment is not relayed to the content of the video, but I'd like to let you know that your self expression and past videos about gender and queerness have changed my views so much and made me realize how can I be both myself and not an imposter by using trans labels. I have started my social transition and feel so much better about myself, thanks for putting your thoughts out there
Forgetting that one is infact disabled is a thICK mood!! Im also not good at identidying myself as disabled, even tho i am, in fact, disabled lol
haha lmao forget it, its prolly just in my head~
ÉÊËĘ we’ll miss you :,) have fun!
OMG I LOVE THE HAIR
Ashton! I can't believe they went after you! You're my inspiration because of your incredible capacity for kindness. This is why you are a role model for me. Debate streamers are not leaders of kindness like Ashton.
I just think that you rock and that you are awesome. I value your incite greatly because I have never seen you fail to be kind. Everything you have learned and read in your ongoing studies helps you to do that, I just learn second hand from consuming your content.
I’m upset about people not discussing the ableist narrative around this pandemic such as “it’s only the sick/underlying conditions are dying” Umm I’m glad I’m expendable *sigh
People are truly evil. :/
Being both autistic and ADHD, I totally get your frustration surrounding this topic, we have a long way to go. And on this regard you guys are actually very lucky in the US, here in Spain (I would say that in Europe in general, but I'm not that knowledgeable about the state of disability advocacy in every single European country lol) the overwhelmingly majority of leftists (including feminists, queer activists, anti-racism activists, communists, syndicalists...), whether online or irl, whether involved in activism or in institutional politics, haven't even come into contact with the concept of disability rights as a social justice issue, it's that unheard of here.
So you get an idea of how backwards things are here, I can't even use the word autistic to refer to myself if I want people to understand what I mean, I would just get "there's no way you're autistic, you can talk with a very high degree of eloquence and you aren't intellectually impaired!". Instead I have to use the term "Asperger's" and then explain that it is under the autistic umbrella/spectrum, which I hate to do since imo "Asperger's" is a useless, outdated, kinda offensive term that just needs to die out. But I can't make it disappear from my vocabulary until it starts becoming a known fact around here that those of us who used to be labeled as "Asperger's" actually belong under the autistic spectrum, and that being unable to speak eloquently and being intellectually impaired aren't by any means requirements for an ASD diagnosis. Sadly, not just the average, but the overwhelming majority of people's understanding of what autism is here, is an almost nonverbal or outright nonverbal person who seems extremely intellectually impaired but who has some miraculous, hidden savant ability, who has to watch the same show at the same hour the 365 days of the year in order to avoid having a devastating uncontrollable meltdown, and who couldn't possibly take care of themself (well, rather, himself, I bet most people here think women are unable to be autistic lol) in any way.
Also both autism and ADHD are underdiagnosed throughout Europe (not just Spain, this I know for a fact is a European issue in general) at an outrageously high rate in comparison with the US. Accessing stimulant medication for ADHD is also muuuch more difficult throughout Europe than it is in the US, specially if you're an adult, and even then you'll see countless articles about the horrors of ADHD medication and how it's destroying our youth, and people irl repeating this talking points about the horrors of ADHD medication again and again and again, when in actuality we are severely undermedicated here and in need of hurrying the fuck up and approaching as fast as possible US standards on this regard. I don't think it would be an overstatement to say that Europe, even Western Europe, is like two decades (at least) behind the US and Canada when it comes to ASD and ADHD, it's honestly pretty bad here.
(PD: just read a comment about how discussions about disabilities online are very heavily focused on autism and ADHD, so I'm sorry mine are, but what can I say, those are the two disabilities I have first-hand experience with and which I have done research at length about 😅)
Yeo, and the you arent impaired, have they ever read up what it is outside of terrible media representation?! People being just stupid and weird is not the same as a disability. Go on dunking streams and you van see neurotypical people just being. Thats not that autism is, nor does it is "no feelings" , its communication and to generalize harder filtering out, and hangups in communication . And other more specific. Where is that say impaired ever.
Its just that people usually arent super smart robots or the opposit. But people. And coping mechanisms develope to deal with shortcomings, as all humans do.
I hate the oh autists are stupid, is ......
Yeah europe needs to catch up, living in a better social country that still, hard agree.
MONTHS later but i felt kind of shitty so i rewatched this & ashton ur so wonderful i was instantly cheered up. thank u
Maan, i have the stretchy shit, yeh, lots of pain. I've been treating for a year now by myself bc medical system sucks. You gotta build muscle, maybe take colagen suplements like i do and strecth everyday (BUT GENTLE). This thing affect many things, not only the muscles, can afect your digestions, your breathing, can give headaches
Have you looked into Ehlers Danlos syndrome my guy?
@@fenrirgallant8766 i havent stopped to study, but I've followed a couple people with it for years and i dont feel like mine is that serious? idk, im my country (brazil) the diagnosis i have is "hiperelasticidade" aka "hyper elasticity"
I would love to read all of your essays
Edit: Yesss reading suggestions!
I don’t know if you’ve looked into Ehlers Danlos as a possible diagnosis already but I would recommend it from what you said about your symptoms (there is even a fairly high comorbidity between Ehlers Danlos and autism)
I was about to say this!!
I don't watch Hasan, but I do watch Vaush. This is one of the topics that makes him very defensive and therefore unable to hear what people are saying. I find it frustrating, and I've told him that he's dead wrong about korviday in his chat, but, you know, a thousand people posting at the same time means my message appears for a millisecond among a flood of gleeful "wokescold" (I hate this word) bashing. It's disheartening, but I do believe general sentiment will change in the future. More and more people have noticed that disabled people are being dismissed and targeted by debate streamers, and, at some point, they will be forced to take the criticism seriously. I hope when the time comes, the debate streamers who mean well will own their mistakes and make up for their past actions, but only time will tell.
TW: transphobia
Vaush isn’t a good person. He doesn’t like criticism and will ban anyone who tries to call him out. He would rather spend time defending incels than have a second thought about his bad takes on a plethora of things. This is somebody who called trans people “subhuman” and “cancer” just because some trans girl was mad at him on Twitter.
@@StigmataMartyrz Vaush is a human being, and like ALL human beings, he has flaws and triggers and does things that hurt other people. Your criticisms of him are not wrong, but that doesn't make him a bad person. Demonizing other people is never helpful. It's not good when Vaush does it to people who call him out, and it's not good when people do it to Vaush.
Thank you so much for the vid, I'm looking to learn more about this & thanks for the book suggestions!
excited for this video
please make a video about the time you got into a fight with the church of satan!! also it's lovely to see you be back, I have a feeling your voice has gotten even deeper? your facial hair is more noticeable too! and your makeup skills are fire as always
I somewhat agree with the part where you criticize expressions like "go outside" and "touch grass". I think what these "clapbacks" are trying to get at most of the time is how being excessively present online in spaces that are toxic (spaces that, for example, breed discourse, and twitter is notoriously toxic in that regard because of the way it incites engagement) can be detrimental for you and your perception of the world to the point you're only saying certain things for the sake of the discourse and the things you say aren't actually connected to reality in any meaningful way. Though this isn't an excuse for the obviously ableist implications of those expressions and this is not at all the right way to have this discussion. I wish we could have nuanced mature conversations on this topic instead of simplistic shortcuts that we basically use to insult each other lol.
after a bit of reflection I think the leftists who only criticize the economical aspect of injustice and ignore other forms of inequality and oppression, aka those often labeled "class-reductionists", are just mad they aren't rich and are seeking to tear down the system not because it would be a good thing in and of itself, but simply because the system in question doesn't benefit them. incel logic but with money instead of women
We need another choker necklace haul🔥🔥
pls, do tell us about your twitter fight with the church of satan, that sounds hilarious. also, I ABSOLUTELY AGREE WITH EVERYTHING YOU SAID IN THIS VIDEO
Thank you for this! Very well said. Good luck with your job at the camp!
Unrelated but I love your vibe so much - I mean the makeup, the sideburns, the hair, the earrings, all epic king
it's my birthday and here this is omg this is the best present thank you
Loved this video thank you for it!!
i haven't tuned into your channel in a while, i didn't realize how much i missed your content! your thoughts here were very engaging :]
i am ever disappointed but not surprised by the ableism on lefty twitter :/
I love your content!
oh my god a lot of these thoughts have been spinning inside my silly little skull for the longest time and you've managed to word it all so incrediblyy! ahhhh so good so good
This was really confusing for me. Before today, i had never even heard the expression "touch the grass" - i guess it might be an American thing? (I'm British). Based on your explanation it doesn't SOUND ablist or at the very least it doesnt seem like it is inherently meant to be ablist. (Unlike other words which are very clearly slurs made to be pejorative ie the r-word.)
What we SHOUD see on the left is a conversation of 'how is this ablist?' not 'nO uR rOnG dUmBaSs'. That's the disappointing part.
Its a twitter thing rather than an american thing. Its ableist because it implicates that you cant have an opinion of something if you arent able to be outside often, so it invaildates the voices of disabled people
@@puddypudding9609 Surely its meant as a metaphor tho? Either way it woud be incorrect to assume "touching the grass" means that. Thanks for the clarification
Honestly, I clearly see in my every day life how misogyny and abilism go hand and hand
I'm afab with either autism or adhd (we don't know yet but one of them) and have been unable to get much help about it, because of the oppression
I've legit been told "you shouldn't get help because it would look bad on your record"
Like huh???
hello fellow gamzee enjoyer.
also, shouldn't you be able to just not disclose that information? or does it work different where you're from, I'm not from the US
btw if you have adhd Russel Barkley's presentations on CZcams are fantastic, if a bit sad but you get over it
@@chrono4998 its not about not disclosing it, I want accommodations for it that would need a diagnosis
For example, I get really understimulated and panic in standardized testing due to the silence of it
If I had a definite diagnosis I could get accommodations, such as a room alone with music, which would help loads with the panic silence brings
I could not disclose it, and I've been doing so, but that removes any chance of needed or beneficial aid and accommodation
@@divineichor7079 dude that's not what I meat. you've been told it'd "look bad on your record", I assume for jobs and stuff. you can just, not disclose that to JOBS. they don't get to know your medical history do they.
And about a diagnosis, you already know you are convinced, go for it. I had lots of problems in testing environments as well, the extra time is way nice. do you plan on getting medicated?
@@chrono4998 sorry for misunderstanding
But even in jobs, yes they don't need to know everything, but they will need to be told eventually if I need anything for it
For example, a small break time or headphones for if I'm getting overstim
And I do plan on getting a diagnosis, but I don't nessesarily need meds for much, just understanding and accommodations
I was literally just sending a video of yours to my friend like an hour ago, and somehow missed this upload?? Anyways, not in the right headspace to watch this rn, but can't wait to watch it later ❤️ hope you're having a good day
Recently back at work and my carpal tunnel has flared up pretty badly. I had eventually gone to the doctor about a year and a half ago (i think), but since covid I hadn't worked at all and the only thing that agitated it would be any activities on my laptop or gaming stuff. I've had to not only cut back on how many days I work, but im also not able to do all the sorts of work i was able to do before. And honestly its very hard to not feel like im inadequate in a way and made me realize i had more internalized ableism within me that I was aware of. We also got a new coworker and he has some cognitive issues and there have been times where I feel that some of my coworkers will treat him differently and it's hard to fully describe what feels wrong about it, but it just does. I also dont feel that comfortable saying anything since i cant really say what it is they're doing that they shouldn't do. Im also just sick as fuck of working for some rich jackass to chill on a yacht while i physically disable myself by doing bullshit work.
God sometimes I like hasans streams but tf hasan? And also his takes about how "identity politics" should basically never be discussed? Uh
honestly i think "identity politics" is becoming the new "sjw", just another straw man to attack when you don't like marginalized people standing up for themselves and fighting for respect
I think a lot of people seriously misunderstand what identity politics is and I've basically only seen it used as a strawman to attack at this point
Lol red and purple are also my favorite colors besides black. My undercut is usually dyed red or purple with the long top part black.
just want to point out that you look like gerard way on 8:17 and i love it
i got told that a lot when i was younger for some reason so im v happy to hear that again lmao thank you :,)
have a good summer man!
This is somewhat random, but I got *overly* happy when you said that you were going to be a camp counselor. I've been really missing my summer camp (even more than usual lol) over the past few days, and your comment a/b summer camp made me wonder whether you'd be at the same one that I was (I reached the age limit for campers in 2019, and I can't be on staff until next year). It's probably not the same camp, but if it is, I think you'd really enjoy it! I'm not going to actually say the camp's name, but it's in VT, it has ten letters, and the first two letters are "Ki".
Sorry if this is too long, I just really, really miss camp.
amazing video !
Thank you for this video (I know I'm late to this) As a disabled person I have certainly seen ableism escalate during the pandemic
Any thoughts on the documentary "Crip Camp" on Netflix? It is about a group of disability activists that met at a camp and ended up playing a role in the movement that led to the ADA.
ive heard of it and heard it’s good !! i wanna watch it but I also simply don’t watch things
I did red and purple eye makeup today!
I have autism aswell. And I could not have said this better myself. I agree that there is a disconnect when it comes to the online left and ableism
your mullet is poppin
I also have chronic pain and a connective tissue disorder! I've got the ehlers-danlos syndrome, the one they use the floppy test to diagnose (+ genetic testing lol), and I have chronic pain from that by itself, but also fibromyalgia and ME/CFS and PCOS, and arthritis and I get Costochronditis flare ups like you do!
Lol but so anyway, possibly useful unsolicited advice/info incoming; ehlers-danlos could be whats causing your tendon/ligament-y pain cause thats a whole thing it does lol and its a weird/rare one so it probs wouldn't be looked for right away, but honestly fibro and ME/CFS both cause chronic pain on their own and are comorbid with your connective tissue issue, costochondritis, and EDS is comorbid with costochronditis as well.
So it could be that you're dealing w chronic fatigue or nerve pain on top of your connective tissue issue (sorry, I can't stop saying it and I won't lol), which would make it more difficult to deal with the costochronditis on top of the symptoms of me/cfs or fibro etc, making it extra suck.
But ALSO btdubs that high score on the floppy test thing youve got is supes indicative of EDS, so if you haven't been checked its def worth it, a geneticist would be able to do a test and tell without a doubt if your genes say you've got it!
I literally had to bring the idea to my doctors cause none of them knew what eds was, so coming in asking for that test would if not get an answer at least jumpstart some other ideas.
It took forever, literal yeaaaars, 9 of them, to get any diagnosis, esp the EDS one, but we knew i had ME/CFS and fibro pretty quick, and itd make sense that you wouldn't get put in the me/cfs category right away if they figured out your connective tissue issue first! As that one thing could explain everything technically, and they dont tend to look for me/cfs or fibro on top of a "legimiate" diagnosis, since so many doctors think chronic fatigue is bullshit even tho its officially been acknowledged and listed as a seperate syndrome and not just a symptom of other things anymore. They also tend to assume chronically ill ppl will only have one illness and stop looking once one is found (contrary to what they're taught tbh, i did some medical school before I medically withdrew, i know what they learn lol), so itd make sense that they wouldn't check for anything else, like EDS, on top of it too. Perhaps treating yourself like a me/cfs patient would help alleviate some ick in the meantime!
Here's some stuff on it if you'd like!
www.mesupport.co.uk/m-e-information/a-self-help-guide-to-managing-m-e
@Ashton yes, disability stuff certainly misses out on a lot of things. For example pushed for the Convention on the Rights for Persons with Disabilities (a treaty based on the ada) and do you want to try and guess what will probably be the last country to ratify it even after starting the thing it was based on? It is frustrating doing justice stuff for populations i am not part of just because it is the right thing to do then often not having disabled or nonbinary ppl even thought of
I love your shirt in this video. Rancid is an awesome fricking band.
Oh I think the Twitter church of satan video would be so interesting
so glad i dont keep up with leftist streamers for the most part. just me and my handful of blogs i like and then just books and irl friends
you're a camp counselor ? :^] idk why but that makes me really happy 2 think kids r gonna have u in their life!
Obvious TW here for ableism
I've been saying this for a while. Ableism is the most widely accepted form of bigotry by far. Ranging from dismissal to actual eugenicist talking points, all of it is seen as acceptable by the majority of the able-bodied public but most usually as long as it is slightly short of actual eugenics.
Regardless of their political stance, gender identity, race, ethnicity nationality, or sexuality, many (I'd argue most) of the able-bodied populace see us as subhuman. Some of them may not want to admit it, but they do.
Ableism is so inherently tied in our society that people will excuse parents for murdering their children, calling it a "necessary evil" or "an act of mercy" as if the person they just killed wasn't even a living, breathing, eating, feeling, conscious, social lifeform compared to them. Reducing disabled people down to a nuisance or a life forfeit of any opportunity or happiness.
Can't forget some of the neurodivergent folk either either, saying and calling others the R slur while being like... mildly type A ADHD. God, can't even begin to mention the commercialization (or whatever maybe gentrification) of ADHD as some XD quirked up with the sauce white gamer boy X3 nuzzles shit like some of us aren't out here jobless and without highschool degrees. (This is kinda echoing OCD being seen as "oh im so cleanly and quirky" in the 2000s to mid 2010s)
sorry, that was a lot.
Hypermobile Ehlers-Danlos syndrome (h-EDS), that's what you're talking about. Issues with connective tissues, stretchy skin, chronic pain... and guess what? It has somehow a high comorbidity among us trans AFAB autistics, and this overlap is been talked a lot those past years in the community. Good luck with your diagnosis!
yea i’ve been looking into hEDS for years lmao, it’s a struggle out here
heck man it’s midnight here😭😭 I’ll have to watch this tomorrow, such an interesting topic too... frick
In my experience, most leftist groups dont really talk about disabilities and when they do a lot tend to talk down to people with disabilities like a sick puppy. Certain anarchist spaces tend to be a lot better though from my experience. The easy thing to say is just listen to disabled people talk more about the issues we face but until we fix the culture of not letting disabled people speak or acting overly condescending around them we wont get a chance to hear their perspectives
GREAT VIDEO
Most of the times when I've called someone out on their ableism in leftist spaces, I've gotten ableist slurs thrown at me. It fucking sucks and I'm tired of ableism being as normalised as it is.
that's that on that
this is super great and important to talk about. my mom has really bad chronic pain (CRPS) and her and I both have frustrations with the healthcare system and the lack of help they provide for less common disabilities. I never see people talk about it in a way that actually makes me feel better about the future, this was refreshing
Hi Ashton, you’re hair looks good!!!
20:46 lmao, i had to create a second watch later playlist because the default one filled up (5000 videos)
Thank you so so much for this video. There are a lot of important issues talked about in online leftist spaces, but I’ve always felt uncomfortable with how little the rights of/justice for disabled people are discussed. Watching this felt very cathartic because it helped me realize that I wasn’t alone in this concern. It’s interesting how these topics get much more coverage in physical leftist spaces as opposed to online ones.
I also think that conversations like these online are important because internet spaces are often one of the easier spaces for disabled people to access. There are so many disabilities (both in the physical and mental manner) that prevent people from participating in physical leftist events. For example, I am not able to attend most protests in any meaningful way due to the fact that my ankle will not function properly/will be in intense amounts of pain when I stand and move for longer periods of time, and sitting on the ground is not an option because of my hips. This is a permanent thing for me, and while I try to participate in physical events when possible, I will probably never be able to healthily and sustainably partake in traditional march/standing style protests (as much as that really upsets me). Accessible and accepting leftist spaces/events both online and in person are something that I think we really need more of to make sure that disabled activists, people, and voices are included in leftist efforts.
Yeah uhhhh I didn’t love korviday’s tweet (I think it’s a topic that shouldn’t have been addressed in a tweet tbh it was a recipe for misunderstanding and lack of nuance) but Jesus Christ was the response unwarranted and ableist as Fuck like holy shit????? Large creators don’t incite harassment challenge
oh my god this
How are people saying they want equality for EVERYONE but then leave out disabled people?
Right? People are exhausting.