The Economics of Dating: How Game Theory and Demographics Explain Dating in D.C. (Jon Birger)
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- čas přidán 6. 08. 2024
- Using a combination of basic economic principles, demographics, game theory, and number crunching, Jon Birger explains America’s curiously lopsided dating and marriage market among single, college-educated, looking-for-a-partner women.
Birger investigates not only the consequences of this unequal ratio of college-educated men to women on dating but also a host of other social issues.
View the full event here: www.cato.org/events/economics-...
And there wasn't a dry seat in the house...
He should do some investigating about the online dating scene.
Best advice for men in your twenties. Focus on your education, career, finances and physical well-being. Do NOT spend your time chasing girls; if they come your way, that's all well and good but do not allocate too much of your abundant youthful energies on such dalliances. You will reap very rich rewards as you become established in your life path in your thirties and well beyond. Gratification delayed is gratification multiplied.
Best advice for men : stop being assholes
The Hot/Crazy matrix is all you need to know when it comes to dating and marriage.
I largely agree with the points. However, this doesn't explain the shift in the dating market that starts occurring for all women in their late 20s. There is an obvious disproportion in gender for college educated people ... but outside of this demographic, this gender disproportionality doesn't exist. Nevertheless, men tend to have more options in their 30s than women do within the realms of more equal gender distributions.
I think the points here are valid and are very likely a cause of many of the quoted issues. I just have a problem with casting too large of a net with this idea. I think young women have a lot more capital over young men in the general population ... but once people start hitting their late 20s things start to subtly change and men start having more options.
Many women bank on the abundance of options they have in their youth without considering they might dry up. Many men are met with a much wider pool of options at the same time women's options are drying up. This is because men have a wider pool of people, and more relationship capital ... while women are losing some of theirs (unfortunately, few guys are trying to bag a wealthy/successful women).
+aaron0883 late 20s is exactly the time when womens looks seriously deteriorate if they havent even before. men are going for looks though. this and only this is the reason why their options dry up and why mens options explode. a 35 year old guy can totally date 20-25 year old women. I myself dont even waste a second on women my own age.
It's not about looks deteriorating because women of different ethnicities don't have the same issues of starting to look old in their 30's. The issue is biology and your fertile window closing. Women are the most fertile when they are in their 20's and early 30's, after that, they start to have trouble with reproducing. Therefore women's bodies start to signal to them that they need to hurry up and find a mate so they can reproduce.
@@GunterD1337 but I do think you are shallow dating women much younger than you and not finding pleasant and romantic company with women your own age or older. It says a ton about you.
@@annanajduch5201 it is not solely about looks but also the risks involved with childbirth after 35... for a woman discussing having kids at 38 is just not optimal while it can be for a man
0:10 because there's money in making women feel better about themselves by telling it`s men's fault.
In Vancouver (British Columbia) Canada, we have the exact same problem but in reverse. The job market attracted so much men from all over the world that dating became more of a challenge than something that should be natural.
Meanwhile the female to men ratio dropped so dramatically that women are literally overwhelmed. What ends up happening is that women get so scared of the abundance that they end up socially handicapped, unable to engage in public settings and turn to dating sites, even though it is abundantly clear that there are men interested on them (albeit quantity, not quality). And what happens in the dating sites? The same thing.
They end up overwhelmed by the sheer number of requests and start to over inflate their egos waiting for "Mr perfect", always with the "I need to date more guys" mentality. I don't blame anyone, its just demographics really, it only means: "Go look where no one else is looking". ie. Date up.
Hypergamy, you are describing Hypergamy.
I'm a former tufts student who currently lives in sillicon valley. What have I done with the last 8 years of my life
It's the same in academia. I don't know of an unmarried male faculty in the humanities and social sciences in which I work but many unmarried women. Many of those women have clearly given up on having any kind of personal life at all even though it clearly leaves them unhappy, emotionally brittle, and difficult to deal with. The happiest woman academic I know is married to an electrician who's never picked up a book in his life, from what I can tell.
In my experience, women with PhD's in the humanities and social sciences tend to be extremely left-wing and therefore not great marriage material. Any self-respecting man tends to prefer a woman who is willing to stay in her feminine. These academics do not do that. they simply vote for more government to extract more wealth from the men. With the exception of one behavioral therapist and future Psychology PhD I have dated, I would consider a PhD in these fields as a disqualifying trait.
I find that professors tend to marry professors and live quite happily with each other.
@@fredfriedman-sowell1864 this smells awfully paternalistic
I am an unmarried male faculty in the humanities and I have given up any kind of personal life. I used to resent it. Now no more.
@@malvikapant7622 Maybe the human condition includes paternalistic impulses in men. Maybe male protectiveness is an innate part of men's psychology.....among other emotions.
reading the comments is like watching a psychology experiment. i would love to know the psychology behind how people watch the video and heard things directly contradicted by what the speaker said. anyone have links?
It's called "selective perception" in psychology.
In order to see “the big picture” you’re going to generalize. Given a large enough sample size, you will see a number of outliers.
This book’s only real contributions are:
1. statistically underpin Hypergamy
2. Point out that OLD is the dominant way men and women meet romantically
3. No one cares about the working class
They assume that no one is worth listening to unless they start off by stroking the male ego.
Non-college grad men not counted naturally. Because anyone who didn't go to college surely lives on the street and has nothing to offer.
- Oh why why why are we so lonely.
In the real world Trade Skills are just as good as degrees but women look down on men who do manual labor now a days. Marriage is about status and what resources she can extract when she leaves the marriage.
Women would rather share a successful alpha than be saddled with a faithful beta - Rollo Tomassi
"For Matt to let the relationship to drag on..." I guess women can't run their own lives?
" women go further than they're comfortable with to seal the deal " - something like that, was a quote from a college student.
And, the speaker also established that the men don't 'seal the deal' and stay single.
So the women violate their own principles or interests in an attempt to get what they want, then regret it when it doesn't work out.
Not all sexual assaults are this case, but I'm sure it's plenty of them.
Divorces go up when there are more women because women can't latch onto a mate with more resources as easily causing them to become more dissatisfied with the marriage in the long run. Remember that it's women who initiate the majority of divorces.
Yes, women start to settle for "what ever they can get" which increases their dissatisfaction with the marriage.
Don't go to caltech.
As a Computer Science student this is such a relief, now I know which location I should take a job.
The answer is, obviously, to get more men into colleges. Perhaps some alteration of Title IX?
very fascinating
This is probably one of the only dating books out there that contains actual facts and truth lol. I love this guy and I'm so happy he wrote this book. Everywhere I look at age 43 there are no men at my education level. I've been saying what he laid out in this book for years, and nobody would listen or believe me, they always wanted to my character flaws as to why I was single, never to the fact that there were no good men. I point people to his book all the time and they still don't listen. But science is science and facts are facts. At least I know the truth now and can operate around it, whether everyone else will accept the truth or not.
You are conflating “good men” with “men at my education level”. I have been married for 30 years to somebody way above my education level. This is not uncommon. Many of her friends are either single or with less qualified women.
So, women's status consciousness and materialism are driving this, not men's immaturity or promiscuity.
@Super Califragilistic ...and there's only one way to do that?
@Super Califragilistic As with all things, there are an infinite number of possible ways to organize a humane society. Only authoritarians argue that there is "one proven best way." Accept graciously.
@Super Califragilistic Let's not resort to calling me your 'friend." It's proof that you are trying to manipulate me. You said there is "one" way. Each organizational system is an organizational system. Some are not more 'organizational' than others. How do you know what's "better" and what's not?
@Super Califragilistic Who decided all of this? Who told it to you? Who measures these things? You live in a bizarre alternative reality.
The fires of autumn book
you know maybe that girl who hasn't been asked out in 6 months gets off her high horse and start asking herself...you know...as all guys who are expected to that.
Guys these days have no charm or pickup lines. At best they know how to text
They should come up with prepaid divorce
MGTOW
I hope you are sticking to that.
Jon Birger is right on the money with his scarcity he just doesn't understand why men are scarce. He's got all this really good data here but he makes on mistake and the entire house of cards he has built suffers for it. He mentioned that rural areas where working class men out number women 9.4 million to 7.1 million now he doesn't go on to say that the female scarcity principal applies here but he does suggest it and he would be wrong because women in rural areas still behave as though men are scarce and here is the truth, men we have reached a level of saturation of being informed about divorce consequences where men have to shill out tons of money to their ex-wives to put it simply and men are voting with their feet and foregoing marriage because the current state of marriage in this country is an exercise in diminishing returns. Also he talks about these college educated groups and working class groups as though there is a wall separating them and this just isn't the case College Educated people and Working Class people are distributed through out our country and yes his running models of gender ratios in college campus that he uses to explain gender density and the corresponding gender scarcity only work in those circumstances because while they are good examples it only applies to Colleges once people leave Colleges they rejoin the rest of the population (not that they were really separated in the first place) and in the general population women outnumber men and when we factor Divorce Laws, Fewer College Educated Men, and understanding these Gender Scarcity Principals and then we have a clear picture of what is happening. Men are bailing out by the droves and you have things like Alimony and Affirmative Action to thank for it. There is another thing I want to mention when I add up his totals I get more men than women which doesn't fit the census data for 2015 which leads me to believe that he has left out unemployed men and/or stay at home mothers or single mothers. There is a gapping whole in his data its just difficult to say what he left out.
i wish i worked as a plumber or with a trade before going to college. Would have saved so much money and been much happier. I think the subject of the speaker is really a non-issue
Very pro female and biased presentation The fact is nobody can’t have at all. Men know that, women are beginning to learn that. I think he is skipping on the fact that
1) a lot of these women are undatable due to their behavior
2) men are willing to date down
23:36 this John Lenin look-a-like guy might be embellishing his exploits in the story in order to impress you so I would be skeptical of his honesty.
I wrote this before he got to the end, he goes completely off the rails at the end. Rape rates are down in the US. From 1995 to 2014 the instance rate of rape dropped from 37 per 100k to 26 per 100k. His point is absolutely horseshit.
Oh man! This is a gold mine of traditional conservative social expectations. "Time thieves"? So, it's the guys fault. What he should have done is have a bunch of kids that he doesn't want so that she doesn't have to take responsibility for monitoring "her time." I mean, men are *supposed* to give up their dreams for the dreams of their wives. We don't know *why* he's supposed to, but he is.
If these women don't want a "hook up culture" then why are they "hooking up?" Why do women carry absolutely no responsibility for this situation? "Women feel pressure..more than they're comfortable with?" SOB SOB SOB how terrible. Well, men feel more pressure than they are comfortable with to get married and have children.
What do the girls do on Valentines day at Cal Tech? Nothing? That explains why women can't find commitment.
Divorce rates go up. But not because of men. Women initiate divorce 7 out of 10 times.
This guy definitely should have discussed the legal-guillotine that men face in marriage. But, that doesn't hurt women so we will ignore it.
the dynamics this white night is trying to explain, are much better explained by the Rational Male series of books by Tommassi.... somewhat dyscomforting/threatening to those steeped/invested in the "traditional", but much more accurate and encompassing than Birger
Firstly, brush up on your spelling. Secondly, as a former Red Piller, I can tell you that's not true. Most of Rollo's work is a bastardization of various concepts, including concepts like the Sexy Son's Hypothesis. Birger's arguments here are much better than anything Rollo can say. Thirdly, Rollo's work is micro, and Birger's is macro. Macro concepts can provide the basis for micro concepts but it's very rare that it's the other way around. It's possible that Birger and Rollo could both be right (Rollo isn't though, not 100% anyways). Fourth, Birger is making mostly descriptive claims. He's nowhere near a white knight. I don't think you know what that means.
Finally, your opinion might've changed since it's been a year. But I thought I'd leave this here for the record.
@@dezkightz lol former Red piller. Tomasi's work is far more helpful to men.
@@AtheismF7W I wish I could disagree with you on whether or not it’s helpful, but that doesn’t mean that it’s not also detrimental. The Red Pill goes down sweet and ends up bitter. It’s better than believing the radical feminist lie, but in the long run it hurts far more than it helps. It’s toxic and thus hurts everyone.
very easily Rollo Tomassi proves that this white gnight is completely feminized and blaming men for women riding the hot dog carrousel and not facing any accountabilities.
@@dezkightz "toxic" oh man, god help us.
I was going to leave a MGTOW post but you guys beat me to it
Is Birger making a biological determinist argument that men have evolved to provide material resources in return for sexual access? How does this fit with arguments about the power of gender ideals? Is he arguing that the only thing that would lead men to monogamy is the promise of sexual exclusivity from a woman he can control through access to resources/status? If he is, then women could change these dynamics by worrying less about finding wealthy and prestigious men and focusing more on finding mature and responsible men. Reward men's emotional maturity and you'll get more of it. If men want sexual access, they should look for women who put personal and sexual chemistry ahead of status and wealth.
The issue with this is that biologically, women are predisposition to choose men who are financially stable. Why? Because women bear the burden of carrying and having children which means we will have to leave the workforce in order to have a family. We will have to leave our jobs which will decrease or completely stop our source of income which is why the man having a stable source of income is appealing to women. Men try to make status and wealth superficial when it's not completely. Most women who are interested in having children would LOVE to be able to stay at home at some point to raise their children. Technically women should not be working most of their third trimester but we do because we have to. Also, doctors say that women should be recovering from pregnancy for 6 mos but again, we don't because we can't afford to. If you marry a financially stable man however, you can afford to take an entire year off work to birth and nurture your child like nature intended you to. This can only happen if the man makes enough money to support her and the children without needing her to work. But I'm only speaking about women who are family-oriented.
@@MrsTruthTeller "financially stable" or financially powerful. An accountant working at a bank or a hedge fund manager who bets millions on a single trade? The later are much better at getting women's attention than we might like to admit. Women are attracted to power.
seriously the part he leaves out it’s only specific degrees. finance, and a few others gets a woman’s attention. everything else? forget it. at the end of the day a woman is looking for a man who can provide the lifestyle they want and protect them from danger ( imagined or real). more women then men? they have to work harder to be sexy. more men than women? men work harder to provide and protect. that’s it. people always look for better deal as long as they are comfortable with the results.
Agness is such a "hot" brunette do not tell me she is having any dating problems! Just Saying!
Men with so many options? Are you kidding me? It's the women that have the options. Look at online dating as an example. It's like shopping for shoes for men. It's the women that have the options.
Women have more options for sex, we do not have more options for serious relationships that lead to marriage. Men seem to confuse quantity with quality. Women don't care about men wanting to have sex with them like men do. Yes, online I get hundreds of messages from men but out of 100 messages, maybe 10% of them are actually interested in a serious relationship but 100% of them would sleep with me. Men see the 100% who want sex and they think we have options but women see that as being used. We care more about commitment so we have limited options when it comes to men who want to be commit.
Lol the average woman has broken up with at least 2 or 3 men that would have committed to them so I have no remorse for this "I can't find men who will commit to me" BS. How about one of those guys you've friend-zoned statistics and probability say that they are probably good life choices.
Mind-Slayer MGTOW good reply bro. The average 30 year old woman has at least turned 2 to 3 good candidates for marriage but didn't like him because he wasn't Christian Grey our a guy they could brag to there friends and family about.....
Women are evaluated by men for their beauty and youth, men are evaluated by women by status and money. At 20's you have beauty and youth, but almost no status and money. So at 20 years old a woman usually is on top and men usually are on bottom. So, at 20's women seems to have all the options in the world while men doesn't have too many options. The situation change at 30's and 40's. Men at their 40's have status and money, while women almost lost their beauty and youth. So at 40's men are on top and woman are on bottom. Men prefer younger women, so 40 year old man are usually looking for 30, maybe 20 years old women.
This is so stupid lol, the amount of 20 yo men you are kissless and virgin is huge, girls will never talk to him and dating apps this average guy will mostly waste their time and be treated like shit now for girls, you can literally create a tinder account with a photo of a cat or food and you will get more matchs and people interested in you than the average guy, and if you are a 200 pounds girl,below average,no job you still can have some guys at your DMs trying to set a date with not putting any effort at all, and if you are actually pretty just imagine what guys would do for you. but not all guys is nice but having 99+ matches helps alot to actually find somebody good, not for the average guy who will get like a match per week and actually need to put effort on it.
1:01 well you do need to put in effort to meet people, express interest. Which I don't do.
3:02 initial part of writing 3:14 3:37 4:13
5:04 5:29 6:00 statistics of gender ratios 6:55
7:14 media's influence sex is negative
8:49 online dating, degree only dating 9:44 9:56 men advantage 10:14
10:44 sex ratios summary 12:20 13:19
14:43 15:03 15:41 16:30 17:03 18:07 18:53
19:09 19:49
20:37 20:56 21:43 22:22 23:07 23:49 24:21 24:59
26:02 26:27 26:43
27:05 27:15 27:48 economic/job
28:40 political/feminism 29:42 30:04 30:36
30:54 noting errors with data collection
His point about rape may be true, but it's still very rare at all colleges regardless of the sex ratio.
So you had to write a book to examine why women like your 38 year old workplace friend can't find husbands? Ooookaaaayy....
This clearly tailored to women’s fantasies that they can have it all and if that doesn’t happen is because men are uneducated. Men of value don’t care about a women’s education or income. We care about kindness and femininity
read any book by Rollo tomassi and you will see how wrong this man (jon birger) is.
Agree. His presentation is a feel good therapy for “educated women “. It skips the fact that men desire friendly and kind women and that modern women don’t value relationships and are looking for adventure and “self realization” (whatever that means)
Wishy washy
so many MRAs in the comment section lol.
+aragonasten What is so threatening about the idea of men being allowed to create men only organizations lol?
From
anearformen.com/blog/male-space-is-an-inside-job/
Spanning throughout the network of modern men’s media you will find a
substantial amount of perspective on the concept of “male space.”
You’ll see a lot of harsh commentary from men who feel male space has
been encroached upon by gender ideologues who believe that male occupied
space is inherently dangerous to women.
This certainly would appear to be the case when you consider many
traditionally male institutions that have been forced through legal
channels or bad publicity to relent and include women in whatever they
are doing. This even includes what some might consider privacy
violations, such as female reporters being allowed into the locker rooms
of professional athletes while they are in various stages of undress.
Some men point, and rightfully so, to the hypocrisy of this happening
in a society which has had an explosion in women’s organizations that
routinely exclude men. Needless to say, male reporters won’t be finding
their way into the dressing rooms of female athletes unless they want to
be arrested.
+aragonasten From heartiste.wordpress.com/2012/11/02/latest-baumeister-paper-supports-ch-concept-of-the-sexual-market/
Today most schools, universities, corporations,
scientific organizations, governments, and many other institutions have
explicit policies to protect and promote women. It is standard practice
to hire or promote a woman ahead of an equally qualified man. Most large
organizations have policies and watchdogs that safeguard women’s
interests and ensure that women gain preferential treatment over men.
Parallel policies or structures to protect men’s interests are largely
nonexistent and in many cases are explicitly prohibited. Legal scholars,
for example, point out that any major new law is carefully scrutinized
by feminist legal scholars who quickly criticize any aspect that could
be problematic or disadvantageous to women, and so all new laws are
women-friendly. Nobody looks out for men, and so the structural changes
favoring women and disadvantaging men have accelerated (Baumeister and
Vohs 2004). […]
Even today, the women’s movement has been a story of women demanding
places and preferential treatment in the organizational and
institutional structures that men create, rather than women creating
organizations and institutions themselves. Almost certainly, this
reflects one of the basic motivational differences between men and
women, which is that female sociality is focused heavily on one-to-one
relationships, whereas male sociality extends to larger groups networks
of shallower relationships (e.g., Baumeister and Sommer 1997; Baumeister 2010).
Crudely put, women hardly ever create large organizations or social
systems. That fact can explain most of the history of gender relations,
in which the gender near-equality of prehistorical societies was
gradually replaced by progressive inequality-not because men banded
together to oppress women, but because cultural progress arose from the
men’s sphere with its large networks of shallow relationships, while the
women’s sphere remained stagnant because its social structure
emphasized intense one-to-one relationships to the near exclusion of all
else (see Baumeister 2010).
All over the world and throughout history (and prehistory), the
contribution of large groups of women to cultural progress has been
vanishingly small.
I never said you were threatening. Where did you come up with that assumption?
2 makes minutes in and I’m done.
My eyes have been opened... I gotta gtfoh
This comments section is just aids lmao. So many ppl missing the point or spouting out takes that they know nothing about, with zero research to backup anything they're saying. Remember guys: everyone's an expert, except the person who *wrote the damn book.*