I am super proud to announce the release of an eBook project I have been working on over the past few months! This book is part one of a series that will cover the histories of every Division that was active in the British Army from September 1939 - January 1947. Part one covers the Armoured & Cavalry Divisions. The histories in the book cover a Divisions full story, from its formation to disbandment, and everything in between, including movements, actions, planned moves, key dates, commanders etc. Also included is a full outline of a Divisions movement in the U.K. and in the post-war period, two topics that are often overlooked in the historiography of the British Army. For some of the Divisions, such as the 9th Armoured, 10th Armoured and the 1st Cavalry, this is the first time in over 80 years that their war chronicle is told in full. If you are interested and would like to purchase a copy of the book, be sure to check out the link below: payhip.com/livethforevermore
The crucial thing about this story is that the straight running torpedoes of the era required much planning of a firing solution to hit a surface vessel, the fact it was done against another submerged submarine shows an incredible amount of patience, and mathematical application, it was superb.
@@asylumental It's called trigonometry. For people educated pre-1980s, it's pretty basic. However, I wouldn't want to be forced to do it quickly and accurately in that sort of pressure (literally and figuratively)... Much respect to those who did.
@@Chris-hx3om But beyond the difficult conditions that you mentioned, I'd like to stress that the math wasn't simple. Someone saying grade school level math, is being a little ignorant to the massive amount of math needed to be done for 1 torpedo launch. Prior to the TDC being invented in ww2, the equations would contain so much data that it could take 10-15minutes for a person to calculate. Then, they must do the math over and over again to keep a constant accurate tracking on the enemy target. The equations themselves might be simple, but the workload wouldn't be simple... adding then, as you said, the conditions, the pressure of getting it right, etc.. It wouldn't have been easy by any means.
They were only really rendered possible by homing torpedos so it's basically a slo-mo BVR fight (though it's inherently in audible range of course) which hasn't happened yet due to the Cold War never going hot.
For a while it was thought that _HMS Telemachus_ had sunk the Japanese submarine _I-166_ in an underwater battle, but the Japanese submarine must've been on the surface as her captain and some other crew survived.
I joined the Navy in 1968, aged 15. In 1969, after basic training at HMS Ganges and communications training at HMS Mercury I joined HMS Forth, SM7, in Singapore, my first ship, aged 16. As a tactical radio operator/signalman I spent a lot of time around Captain Launders and I remember him as a kind and considerate officer towards us very junior ratings. He always asked how we were, being young and a long way from home. A true gentleman, very modest, and always looked uncomfortable when they piped him aboard from his barge (I would often be at the ensign, waiting to do colours when he arrived on the quarterdeck). The best captain I served under.
I also joined the Navy in 1968, aged 15, In 1969 after basic training at HMS Ganges I served as a cook at HMS Dryad and later flew out to Mombasa where I joined HMS Ashanti. We later went to Singapore when the ship had mechanical trouble. The rumour was that the stokers vandalised the ships engines knowing we would have to leave the ship for a while. I don't know if that rumour was true or not but I do know that we had to leave the ship for six weeks and take up residence in the Army barracks where we still drew pay and ate Army food but had no work to do. This was effectivly a six week holiday in singapore.
A genuinely incredible bit of sub handling there. For a sub of this era to hit a target it needed the range, bearing and speed to be put into a crude electromechanical computer to spit out a firing solution for the straight running torpedos He got range and bearing, then calculated speed from those two when all that was visible of the target was a PERISCOPE With a target of indeterminate class and therefore hight (needed to calculate range. Normally you’d identify the target ship’s class, giving you mast hight and the angle from the horizon to the mast tops lets you do trigonometry to get range to target) he managed to get range and even more impressively bearing right, worked out (or estimated) speed and landed a perfect hit on a submerged contact, blowing it apart Absolutely incredible
@@givenfirstnamefamilyfirstn3935 My man, he wasnt insulting anyone there. He merely stated how impressive it was that they managed to do it with the technology available at the time. I mean, it is a fact that the computer technology in the 1940's left WAY more to be desired. But that isnt a directed insult to anyone. You dont freak out over some tour guide in the museum calling cavemen primitive because it is insulting to the people of that time period, do ya?
He took a little extra time to get the solution in which he was likely working out the the bearing rate of the target which would aid in the final solution. And a 4-torpedo salvo for good measure. Well worth it.
Launders was a veritable mathematical genius, as verified by those who knew him. Putting a mathematical genius in command of a submarine, whereby usage of maths was critical for calculating firing solutions - no surprise Launders was good at his job!
Made a comment to that effect. Unbelievable skill required to get range and bearing off a protruding mast alone and scoring a hit from 2000 yards on a zig zagging target
@@franktibbet8237 you think it was a waste of his talents to take out two German submarines, which each could have or would have taken out dozens of allied ships?
@@alanaldpal950 Personally, I feel like genius shines best in war, as tragic as that sounds. Everything from medicine to aviation jumps ahead several decades in technology & sophistication in just a couple years, yet at a terrible cost.
@@maxkennedy8075 Ahem... no. There exist mathematical formulas which were used to determine firing solutions. Quite easy actually... to determine a vessel's true heading and speed then input the variables to obtain firing solution. No "mathematical genius" needed.
I don't think the uploader has detailed the shear audacity and competence of Launders in this video. So, allow me:- Launders was not only mathematically gifted in his execution of his targeting solutions but had a photo-graphic memory for the standard operating procedures of Kreigsmarine U-boat Kaptains (know your enemy). The crucial difficulty was for him to correctly forecast not just range, bearing and speed of this target but also factoring in the extra dimension of depth? This is what sets Launders out from the rest. He second (third and fourth) guessed exactly what avoiding action the U-boat would employ to evade the first 3 torpedoes (at 17.5 seconds apart) to set up the last torpedo for a hit. He had the depth setting lowered on the last fish to rendezvous with the diving U-boat. Like the best chess masters and boxers; they're planning several moves ahead before the final strike. He was 26 yrs old. The communal stress in that U-boat every time they detected and tried to avoid an incoming tin-fish must have been intolerable mental torture. I have no love for the Nazi German war machine but what a terrible way to die. RIP
Yes Wayne the men of the uboat were just doing their duty, the same as the British, and no doubt a terrible way to die, awful for our sailors on both sides to die in this way. The commander of the British sub would be carrying out his duty to the full, for his country. We need to harness such dedication and skill for the good, not for war.
Yes RIP they weren't all cruel dispicable Nazis they were just doing their job which must have been one of the most frightening and miserable jobs during WW2. Well done Venturer!
I think the only ones we could set aside as monsters were the SS. Most of the german military were just doing their duty to serve their country like every military in any part of the world is expected to. Allies included. Add to that the massive propaganda and lack of independent information, and it gets really hard to hate them.
I can only imagine the anguish aboard the German subs as son as they realized that torpedoes were heading their way and they were already submerged. War is horrible!
It's fascinating to think that the most probable form of submarine warfare in a future war between two combatants that possess submarines has only taken place once in all of history.
@@Siddingsby i guess most of the time nuclear attack subs follow the boomers around keeping tabs on them. If the boomers try to launch their missiles that would be the only time that the ROE would allow the attack submarine force to cut loose. Important to note that those in command of the attack submarines may not have time to rise to broadcast depth and would need to use their own judgement to determine if ww3 had started in the absence of outside information
Improvements in technology make what was extremely difficult in 1945 an expected event in modern times. Namely, sonar guided torpedoes, as opposed to the straight running torpedoes of WW2.
That German submarine was carrying a full load of mercury. That mercury is now on the bottom of the sea off the coast of Norway. The Norwegians estimate it will cost a billion dollars to seal it in with a cap of cement. They believe that's the best way to keep it from contaminating the surrounding waters.
"They"have postponed doing anything about it for years. The locals don't want a sub wreck full of mercury contaminating the sea floor and fishing, and while it would be a real challenge to recover and remove the wreck without spreading the mercury, but Dutch experts claims it can be done, however "they" will probably opt for the cheapest option; meaning burying the wreck and hence postponing the mercury contamination.
As a USAF service member at the height of the cold war, I worked at Andenes on 2 separate occasions. It is a desolate place, not much more than a few fishing villages on the island, and an air base of course. The people were lovely.
I would swear there was another sub vs sub battle since then. I heard that near the end of the Cold War an experimental Typhoon-class submarine and the USS Dallas traded shots off the coast of the Continental US. Records seem to be a little spotty on the engagement, however.
Launders was awarded the DSO and Bar, plus the DSC and Bar. I believe it was Admiralty practice to award the DSO to sub captains who sunk an enemy submarine (it being a smaller, more agile, and therefore more difficult target to hit). Launders undersea victory over that German submarine is an example of an exceptional skill, having to correctly predict the targets' position in 3- dimensions (not only vectoring a solution from the x,y axes, but also that in the z-axis as well!!). In-bloody-credible!! 🤯
Actually he had to consider 4 dimensions in his firing, [x,y,z,t] since he fired the torpedoes at seperate times and had to guess at which time they’d be at which position. Truly remarkable
My uncle was on HMS Oxley which was attacked and sunk by HMS Triton . Both British subs. It was due to communication problems with Oxley’s radio. This I believe was around the first week of the war.
I grew up listening to Walter Cronkite tell WWII stories every weekend, and I never knew about this. Wow. Great story. Thank you! I'll be back for more.
This man was just a lieutenant and given command of a sub. Wow. Also the only sub commander to ever sink another submerged sub. Wow. WW2 was crazy yall
I'm from Lerwick, we have some incredible war history around the islands. "The Shetland Bus". Many other stories, including plane crash sites etc etc. Additionally, the Orkney islands have some really interesting ww2 history too. You have probably heard of the "HMS Royal Oak" an absolute tragedy.
Your ending photo with the Abrams is actually one from my unit! Its from our Bravo Company, that was at our training in the desert April '22. Wish it was my tank up there haha.
When Dudley Morton was in command of SS R-5 (before he became the famous skipper of Wahoo) there's a record of him firing on and attempting to pursue a german U-boat but missed. It's all in a biography by Don Keith titled "undersea warrior". Ironically after that his division commander at the time told him he wasn't cut out for subs after not pressing the pursuit harder. But even morton knew he couldn't match up to a U boat with the out-of-date equipment on what he called the "nickel boat". Morton was definitely the one who took the submarine from a tool of observation, to the weapon of war we know today and paved the way for other legends to follow such as Richard O'kane and Eugene Fluckey.
In the book “The Spider Web: The Romance of a Flying-Boat Flight in the First World War” by P.I.X. and T.D. Hallam a British submarine captain relates the story of how he encountered a German submarine in the English channel. As they maneuvered around each other, he was aware of the German passing below him. He immediately blew his ballast tanks, settling down on the German, and forcing it to the bottom. He sat there long enough for the German to be silted in solidly and went home.
@@pjnoake It's been while since I read that book. Maybe he vented the ballast tanks? Any, the point is he sat down on the German sub until it was stuck in the mud.
@@johndododoe1411 Think you need to do some research, there we many battles where a submarine sank another submarine. This was the only case where a submarine torpedoed another submarine and sank it when both were underwater.
1946 - Off active service Posted to HMS Dolphin - Submarine depot, Portsmouth. January 1947 Posted to HMS Dryad - Training unit, Navigation officer. 1949. Promoted Lieutenant Commander - 1 April 1949 Posted HMS Alcide - A class submarine, 5 July 1951 Posted to HMS President - Shore station, London, 1953 Posted to HMS Terror - Far East Station, 1955, Staff Promoted to Commander - 30 June 1957 Posted to HMS Vanguard - Reserve Fleet, 1959. Officer specialising in seamanship training. Posted to NATO - 1961 Captain HMS Forth and Commander 7th Submarine Squadron at Singapore 1968 to 1970 Chief of Staff, Rosyth Dockyard, May 1973 to August 1974 Appointed Naval Aide-de-camp to Queen Elizabeth II on 7 July 1974.[8] Placed on Retired List (Medically Unfit) on 29 November 1974.
I joined the Navy in 1968, aged 15. In 1969, after basic training at HMS Ganges and communications training at HMS Mercury I joined HMS Forth, SM7, in Singapore, my first ship, aged 16. As a tactical radio operator/signalman I spent a lot of time around Captain Launders and I remember him as a kind and considerate officer towards us very junior ratings. He always asked how we were, being young and a long way from home. A true gentleman, very modest, and always looked uncomfortable when they piped him aboard from his barge (I would often be at the ensign, waiting to do colours when he arrived on the quarterdeck). The best captain I served under.
totally fascinating! i love when history videos like this, yes the more “dry” and purely factual type of videos, intentionally so, I love when these get recommended in my feed and I find a new history source to view. I also like the more sensationalized story-like types of videos too but one must be careful on those to not get sucked into a speculative history or pseudo history or a “fictional story based on true events”. Which is why I love these type of ones based purely on the facts and reports reported by the primary sources at that time. Excellent!
A lot of people don’t understand how much underwater acoustic recognition has improved over the years. Active sonar, the, ‘Ping’ so to speak, is archiac technology. Passive sonar is on another level of comprehension. All active Russian submarines have plotted locations, headings and depth plotted even beyond the thermocline. It could also be argued that the Russians have also developed this technology. Nevermind, MAD. Nothing hides in the ocean anymore except for the practical use of human endeavor to explore the delights of our planet unless it’s to wage war.
Let's not forget that the first submarine to destroy another submarine was British AND the first submarine that got destroyed by another submarine was also British. AND. This battle was conducted while both submarines were on the surface and within eyesight of each other. This fantastic fact is provided free of charge for public knowledge. I've already recommended that Britain give up it's submarine fleet but you know the British, if it doesn't work, so what, it ain't costing us anything.
Launders was just EPIC. He did something that had never ever been done before. And he did it casual and coolly as can be. There needs to be a movie done about this heroic real life story from WW2! I saw this on the tv show HELL BELOW. I was awestruck when I first saw it... Definitely he's one of the many brave and courageous young men who fought in WW2... He's part of the Greatest Generation To Have Ever Walked The Earth!! ❤🇬🇧🙏 God Bless Him and His Crew!!
HMS Venturer's first sub kill, while legitimate, was basically shooting at a sitting duck. The second kill was more like what one would suspect as the U-Boat was underway and never knew what hit it. In the US Navy, there was a destroyer escort that became Japan's worth nightmare, the USS England, that sank six Japanese submarines in just 12 days in May 1944.
torpedoes are very loud. Launder's report says that the U boat was taking evasive maneuvers by zig zagging, and that it was running at very slow 3.5 knots so they were probably using the electric engines. so it is highly probable that they heard the torpedoes
i think they were able to "cheat" marginally because the very top of the conning tower was visible above the waterline, but it's still a pretty incredible shot
@@andrewroberts7428 No, I understand that only the U-boat's periscope was visible to the Venturer's Captain. They had to mainly rely on what they were hearing.
@@franc9111 i mean, if the enemy sub's periscope is just visible at the water line, that gives you some sense of the enemy sub's depth, maybe a meter or two below the water line. it would be an entirely different matter if the enemy sub were submerged 30 meters, i would imagine it would be exceedingly difficult to accurately gauge it's depth in that case. it makes me wonder if it's somehow possible by pinging sonar off the enemy sub, and perhaps bouncing sonar off the ocean floor and then towards the sub, and calculating depth based on triangulation. it would be impractical because you'd reveal your presence to the enemy sub, but i still wonder if it's possible...
@@andrewroberts7428 Bouncing sonar off other objects first can be difficult due to inversion layers, etc. The characteristics of the layer may be different directly under your submarine compared to the reflection point between your submarine and the target. Similarly when trying to bounce off the surface (the air-water interface).
If you are taking requests can you do a video about MV Full City hijack, hijack of Kartepe seabus or Turkish operations in Syria maybe like Battle of Aqil Mountain?
Thanks for the story, excellent. So glad he took out two subs, wish it had been far more! U-boats attacking unarmed merchantmen with zero chance of survival, is about as disgusting and low as you can get!
It’s also what the us navy’s sub fleet did when wwii broke out. That’s what subs were meant to do - wwii subs weren’t like modern attack subs. They were pretty vulnerable.
I seem to remember A History Channel episode of a submarine carrying tons of mercury to go to Japan. Along with other jet aircraft Parts at cetera at cetera being sunk off the coast of Norway as well.?
In February 1945, USS Batfish would engage and destroy 3 other submarines (Japanese) in a 76 hour period. They did so using only their new upgrades to their detection equipment - no visual identification. Sonar be scary.
We have also one in history of ours. It is about the valour of the crew aboard the Indian submarine INS Karanj (S21), which destroyed the Pakistani PNS Ghazi submarine when it ventured into Indian waters to destroy INS Vikrant on the shores of Visakhapatnam.
The Indian Navy laid a trap for PNS Ghazi but the sub went down on its own because of Internal explosion before it could reach location. It's pretty clear from the wreck that it suffered internal explosion
I'd always made the claim that there was never a Sub V.S. Sub fight in all history. Guess I was wrong. You know what blows most people's minds. There has not been one American military aircraft shot down by another aircraft since the Vietnam war.
Are you sure there's been no blue on blue incidents? Yanks are famous for firing first, and thinking later, if at all. Killed several of our boys in the gulf, straffing a british convoy.
@@alexcamron7446 I actually listened to the audio of an Airforce Pilot who had just bombed a British convoy. He didn't take finding out very well. Very awful. I don't know about accidents, but I am quite sure no enemy plane has shot down an American plane since Vietnam.
@@alexcamron7446 There is an upside to Americans being willing to open fire. It has a bad result sometimes, but sometimes a mass murderer doesn't go to trial, and doesn't get to do interviews on TV and stuff.
No just more yanks won the war Hollywood bullshit. The Brits captured a uboat (renamed HMS graph in british service), as well as later getting a working enigma from a shot up, sinking uboat that the crew abandoned. I believe that some of the boarding party were drowned as it sank. AFAIK the Americans did sweet FA in the Atlantic theatre.
For some reason in my head there were underwater sub battles happening all the time in WW2 lol guess i just never read or saw anything stating otherwise
Incorrect: In November of 1984, shortly before Gorbachev came to power, a Soviet Typhoon-class submarine surfaced just south of the Grand Banks. It then sank in deep water, apparently suffering from a radiation problem. Unconfirmed reports indicate some of the crew were rescued. But according to statements by both the Soviet and American governments, none of what you are about to see… ever happened.
I find this interesting. In the Pacific Royal Navy submarines only made up 7% of allied submarines, but sunk 23 % of all Japanese submarines. Is this false?
U-864's own excessive noise from the malfunctioning diesel engine probably made it impossible to detect the Venturer which would have been on her electric motors. You could only hope to hear another submarine if you yourself were running slowly, quietly on electric. (U-864 was using the snorkel to run on the diesel engines)
There is a complete documentary available on CZcams about this attack which includes interviews with members of the crew. They described in detail how he calculated the U-boat's zigzag course. When the first torpedoes were fired and missed, the U-boat captain must have realised what was going on. He tried turning away and going downwards to avoid any other torpedoes, but the last remaining one was already launched and hit the U-boat just at that moment. In the documentary, they show the rear end pointing upwards with the rudder turned to one side, just as one of the RN crew members had predicted. The crew were afraid that as they no longer had any torpedoes, if that last one had missed, they themselves could easily have become potential victims of an attack. I didn't know that that they had successfully attacked another U-boat earlier on. The mercury on board has of course become a major polution risk, as a number of the metal cannisters are leaking. The German Government consider it to be a war grave and don't want it to be disturbed, but I fear that at some later date it's going to have to be dealt with.
The skills of the best navy in history. Still, such terrible loss of life in those encounters. Both German vessels never knew what hit them until it was to late to react. Unfortunately that's war and ordinary people die. I will never bring up my children to join the military to satisfy the elite. My step brother only ever wanted to join the army which he did. After all his training at Sandhurst to become an officer he left at the first opportunity. He was appalled to watch people being murdered in Bosina and he could do nothing about it..
what that doesnt work like that Most engangement have been recorded by atleast one site if there where more of these battles then there would have been recordings of it
I am super proud to announce the release of an eBook project I have been working on over the past few months!
This book is part one of a series that will cover the histories of every Division that was active in the British Army from September 1939 - January 1947. Part one covers the Armoured & Cavalry Divisions.
The histories in the book cover a Divisions full story, from its formation to disbandment, and everything in between, including movements, actions, planned moves, key dates, commanders etc. Also included is a full outline of a Divisions movement in the U.K. and in the post-war period, two topics that are often overlooked in the historiography of the British Army. For some of the Divisions, such as the 9th Armoured, 10th Armoured and the 1st Cavalry, this is the first time in over 80 years that their war chronicle is told in full.
If you are interested and would like to purchase a copy of the book, be sure to check out the link below:
payhip.com/livethforevermore
The crucial thing about this story is that the straight running torpedoes of the era required much planning of a firing solution to hit a surface vessel, the fact it was done against another submerged submarine shows an incredible amount of patience, and mathematical application, it was superb.
this was also before hand calculators ,
they where using pen and paper , slide rules at the best ,
just cracking those numbers down
Grade school math is a lost science these days.
@@Billfish57 it's grade school level right? So explain.
@@asylumental It's called trigonometry. For people educated pre-1980s, it's pretty basic. However, I wouldn't want to be forced to do it quickly and accurately in that sort of pressure (literally and figuratively)... Much respect to those who did.
@@Chris-hx3om But beyond the difficult conditions that you mentioned, I'd like to stress that the math wasn't simple.
Someone saying grade school level math, is being a little ignorant to the massive amount of math needed to be done for 1 torpedo launch.
Prior to the TDC being invented in ww2, the equations would contain so much data that it could take 10-15minutes for a person to calculate.
Then, they must do the math over and over again to keep a constant accurate tracking on the enemy target.
The equations themselves might be simple, but the workload wouldn't be simple... adding then, as you said, the conditions, the pressure of getting it right, etc..
It wouldn't have been easy by any means.
Never realized there haven't been more underwater sub battles. Watched too many movies and TV shows. Thought different. Excellent video!
They were only really rendered possible by homing torpedos so it's basically a slo-mo BVR fight (though it's inherently in audible range of course) which hasn't happened yet due to the Cold War never going hot.
Guess I played too much Cold Waters.
That we know about
For a while it was thought that _HMS Telemachus_ had sunk the Japanese submarine _I-166_ in an underwater battle, but the Japanese submarine must've been on the surface as her captain and some other crew survived.
@@howardkong8927 Same, lol. I always thought there's been one??
I joined the Navy in 1968, aged 15. In 1969, after basic training at HMS Ganges and communications training at HMS Mercury I joined HMS Forth, SM7, in Singapore, my first ship, aged 16. As a tactical radio operator/signalman I spent a lot of time around Captain Launders and I remember him as a kind and considerate officer towards us very junior ratings. He always asked how we were, being young and a long way from home. A true gentleman, very modest, and always looked uncomfortable when they piped him aboard from his barge (I would often be at the ensign, waiting to do colours when he arrived on the quarterdeck). The best captain I served under.
I also joined the Navy in 1968, aged 15, In 1969 after basic training at HMS Ganges I served as a cook at HMS Dryad and later flew out to Mombasa where I joined HMS Ashanti. We later went to Singapore when the ship had mechanical trouble. The rumour was that the stokers vandalised the ships engines knowing we would have to leave the ship for a while. I don't know if that rumour was true or not but I do know that we had to leave the ship for six weeks and take up residence in the Army barracks where we still drew pay and ate Army food but had no work to do. This was effectivly a six week holiday in singapore.
❤
A genuinely incredible bit of sub handling there. For a sub of this era to hit a target it needed the range, bearing and speed to be put into a crude electromechanical computer to spit out a firing solution for the straight running torpedos
He got range and bearing, then calculated speed from those two when all that was visible of the target was a PERISCOPE
With a target of indeterminate class and therefore hight (needed to calculate range. Normally you’d identify the target ship’s class, giving you mast hight and the angle from the horizon to the mast tops lets you do trigonometry to get range to target) he managed to get range and even more impressively bearing right, worked out (or estimated) speed and landed a perfect hit on a submerged contact, blowing it apart
Absolutely incredible
Lets see you design a superior mechanical computer, people back then must have been so stupid, how did they achieve so much?
Height
@@givenfirstnamefamilyfirstn3935 My man, he wasnt insulting anyone there. He merely stated how impressive it was that they managed to do it with the technology available at the time. I mean, it is a fact that the computer technology in the 1940's left WAY more to be desired. But that isnt a directed insult to anyone. You dont freak out over some tour guide in the museum calling cavemen primitive because it is insulting to the people of that time period, do ya?
He took a little extra time to get the solution in which he was likely working out the the bearing rate of the target which would aid in the final solution. And a 4-torpedo salvo for good measure. Well worth it.
Launders was a veritable mathematical genius, as verified by those who knew him. Putting a mathematical genius in command of a submarine, whereby usage of maths was critical for calculating firing solutions - no surprise Launders was good at his job!
Made a comment to that effect. Unbelievable skill required to get range and bearing off a protruding mast alone and scoring a hit from 2000 yards on a zig zagging target
@@franktibbet8237 you think it was a waste of his talents to take out two German submarines, which each could have or would have taken out dozens of allied ships?
@@alanaldpal950 Personally, I feel like genius shines best in war, as tragic as that sounds. Everything from medicine to aviation jumps ahead several decades in technology & sophistication in just a couple years, yet at a terrible cost.
@@bustavonnutz that’s true, but probably due to everyone and more resources being “focused” on the effort
@@maxkennedy8075 Ahem... no. There exist mathematical formulas which were used to determine firing solutions. Quite easy actually... to determine a vessel's true heading and speed then input the variables to obtain firing solution.
No "mathematical genius" needed.
I don't think the uploader has detailed the shear audacity and competence of Launders in this video. So, allow me:-
Launders was not only mathematically gifted in his execution of his targeting solutions but had a photo-graphic memory for the standard operating procedures of Kreigsmarine U-boat Kaptains (know your enemy).
The crucial difficulty was for him to correctly forecast not just range, bearing and speed of this target but also factoring in the extra dimension of depth? This is what sets Launders out from the rest. He second (third and fourth) guessed exactly what avoiding action the U-boat would employ to evade the first 3 torpedoes (at 17.5 seconds apart) to set up the last torpedo for a hit. He had the depth setting lowered on the last fish to rendezvous with the diving U-boat.
Like the best chess masters and boxers; they're planning several moves ahead before the final strike. He was 26 yrs old.
The communal stress in that U-boat every time they detected and tried to avoid an incoming tin-fish must have been intolerable mental torture. I have no love for the Nazi German war machine but what a terrible way to die. RIP
Yes Wayne the men of the uboat were just doing their duty, the same as the British, and no doubt a terrible way to die, awful for our sailors on both sides to die in this way. The commander of the British sub would be carrying out his duty to the full, for his country. We need to harness such dedication and skill for the good, not for war.
Yes RIP they weren't all cruel dispicable Nazis they were just doing their job which must have been one of the most frightening and miserable jobs during WW2. Well done Venturer!
@@contingency9 That submarine crew was exiting the war to transport equipment to the only remaining axis country, as Germany was approaching its fall.
I think the only ones we could set aside as monsters were the SS. Most of the german military were just doing their duty to serve their country like every military in any part of the world is expected to. Allies included. Add to that the massive propaganda and lack of independent information, and it gets really hard to hate them.
@@edwardrowland1853 sometimes wars is what keeps people good!
There is no better CZcamsrs for this stuff.
I can only imagine the anguish aboard the German subs as son as they realized that torpedoes were heading their way and they were already submerged. War is horrible!
It's fascinating to think that the most probable form of submarine warfare in a future war between two combatants that possess submarines has only taken place once in all of history.
In all of history only 1 ship has ever been sunk in combat by a Nuclear Powered Submarine.
Subs are stealthy. They could float past each other in silent running and never make contact.
@@Siddingsby i guess most of the time nuclear attack subs follow the boomers around keeping tabs on them. If the boomers try to launch their missiles that would be the only time that the ROE would allow the attack submarine force to cut loose. Important to note that those in command of the attack submarines may not have time to rise to broadcast depth and would need to use their own judgement to determine if ww3 had started in the absence of outside information
@@Siddingsby "Sink it!"
Improvements in technology make what was extremely difficult in 1945 an expected event in modern times.
Namely, sonar guided torpedoes, as opposed to the straight running torpedoes of WW2.
That German submarine was carrying a full load of mercury. That mercury is now on the bottom of the sea off the coast of Norway. The Norwegians estimate it will cost a billion dollars to seal it in with a cap of cement. They believe that's the best way to keep it from contaminating the surrounding waters.
"They"have postponed doing anything about it for years. The locals don't want a sub wreck full of mercury contaminating the sea floor and fishing, and while it would be a real challenge to recover and remove the wreck without spreading the mercury, but Dutch experts claims it can be done, however "they" will probably opt for the cheapest option; meaning burying the wreck and hence postponing the mercury contamination.
@Karl with a K 😆
@Karl with a K " 96 years old german veteran found fishing in destroyed u-boat on sea floor "
@Karl with a K ….wow , I wish you were my teacher 👍🎄🍻
@@fhlostonparaphrase And who is ""They""?
The submarine battle paved the way for submarine tactics that would dominate the Cold War.
As a USAF service member at the height of the cold war, I worked at Andenes on 2 separate occasions. It is a desolate place, not much more than a few fishing villages on the island, and an air base of course. The people were lovely.
Not bad, sneaking up on german subs like that, well done. Truly a worthy adversary.
Greetings from Germany.
After all, that's the whole purpose of a submarine isn't it.
It must've been terrifying to be in that U-boat on impact. 2nd one especially with how violently it ended.
Great video as always!
I would swear there was another sub vs sub battle since then. I heard that near the end of the Cold War an experimental Typhoon-class submarine and the USS Dallas traded shots off the coast of the Continental US. Records seem to be a little spotty on the engagement, however.
I believe in typical U.S fashion there was also a gun battle in the missile room. Apparently this was a risky turn of events.
@@photoisca7386, and the American won. As if there was any doubt.
I can't find evidence of this anywhere. That aside, this seems to be a favourite of scale modelers, and you wonder where the idea came from.
There was also the news reports of a ramming between two Captains, from the same side no less! Somewhere near Grand banks possibly?
One ping only.
Launders was awarded the DSO and Bar, plus the DSC and Bar. I believe it was Admiralty practice to award the DSO to sub captains who sunk an enemy submarine (it being a smaller, more agile, and therefore more difficult target to hit). Launders undersea victory over that German submarine is an example of an exceptional skill, having to correctly predict the targets' position in 3- dimensions (not only vectoring a solution from the x,y axes, but also that in the z-axis as well!!). In-bloody-credible!! 🤯
He also took 4 shots, and missed 3. lol
@@aerysgaming894 Love to see you do better!
@@aerysgaming894, he was actually compensating for the possible depths the u-boat could have taken. Maybe you should game less, and study more. lol
Actually he had to consider 4 dimensions in his firing, [x,y,z,t] since he fired the torpedoes at seperate times and had to guess at which time they’d be at which position. Truly remarkable
@@filster1934 It doesnt take the Brit haters long to appear.
My uncle was on HMS Oxley which was attacked and sunk by HMS Triton . Both British subs. It was due to communication problems with Oxley’s radio. This I believe was around the first week of the war.
I presume your uncle was one of the many lives lost that night?
In 1945 you got to have balls of steel to be in a submarine with no electronics. Then they had a battle on top of it.
That was one really bad assed crew. Good story. I had forgotten about it. What brave Men.
I grew up listening to Walter Cronkite tell WWII stories every weekend, and I never knew about this. Wow. Great story. Thank you! I'll be back for more.
This man was just a lieutenant and given command of a sub. Wow.
Also the only sub commander to ever sink another submerged sub. Wow.
WW2 was crazy yall
I'm from Lerwick, we have some incredible war history around the islands. "The Shetland Bus". Many other stories, including plane crash sites etc etc. Additionally, the Orkney islands have some really interesting ww2 history too. You have probably heard of the "HMS Royal Oak" an absolute tragedy.
Need to have more videos about the Royal Navy submission in ww2.
Good video.
Impressive video. Submarine warfare is always incredible.
cut down the 15 sec intro please..
God I watch too many movies, didn't even realize how rare this happened until now! Great video
Your ending photo with the Abrams is actually one from my unit! Its from our Bravo Company, that was at our training in the desert April '22. Wish it was my tank up there haha.
Good gravy. Hard to imagine all this in the mind's eye. Great video portraying this, once again. Thank you
Tremendous bravery, these men were amazing.
A truly incredible job by Launders, requiring both great skill and patience! Amazing commander!
Hardly a battle though… more like a sniper kill.
Thanks mate, keep 'em coming.
When Dudley Morton was in command of SS R-5 (before he became the famous skipper of Wahoo) there's a record of him firing on and attempting to pursue a german U-boat but missed. It's all in a biography by Don Keith titled "undersea warrior". Ironically after that his division commander at the time told him he wasn't cut out for subs after not pressing the pursuit harder. But even morton knew he couldn't match up to a U boat with the out-of-date equipment on what he called the "nickel boat". Morton was definitely the one who took the submarine from a tool of observation, to the weapon of war we know today and paved the way for other legends to follow such as Richard O'kane and Eugene Fluckey.
In the book “The Spider Web: The Romance of a Flying-Boat Flight in the First World War” by P.I.X. and T.D. Hallam a British submarine captain relates the story of how he encountered a German submarine in the English channel. As they maneuvered around each other, he was aware of the German passing below him. He immediately blew his ballast tanks, settling down on the German, and forcing it to the bottom. He sat there long enough for the German to be silted in solidly and went home.
blowing ballast tanks on a submarine causes it to go up to the surface, not go down. (blows air into tanks, lightening the sub)
@@pjnoake It's been a while since I read the book. He did what was needed to go down quickly.
@@pjnoake It's been while since I read that book. Maybe he vented the ballast tanks? Any, the point is he sat down on the German sub until it was stuck in the mud.
@@ironcladalibi And clearly fiction as the Bergen battle was the only sub on sub combat in that century.
@@johndododoe1411 Think you need to do some research, there we many battles where a submarine sank another submarine. This was the only case where a submarine torpedoed another submarine and sank it when both were underwater.
Whatever became of the young Lieutenant. commanding HMS Venture?
1946 - Off active service
Posted to HMS Dolphin - Submarine depot, Portsmouth. January 1947
Posted to HMS Dryad - Training unit, Navigation officer. 1949.
Promoted Lieutenant Commander - 1 April 1949
Posted HMS Alcide - A class submarine, 5 July 1951
Posted to HMS President - Shore station, London, 1953
Posted to HMS Terror - Far East Station, 1955, Staff
Promoted to Commander - 30 June 1957
Posted to HMS Vanguard - Reserve Fleet, 1959. Officer specialising in seamanship training.
Posted to NATO - 1961
Captain HMS Forth and Commander 7th Submarine Squadron at Singapore 1968 to 1970
Chief of Staff, Rosyth Dockyard, May 1973 to August 1974
Appointed Naval Aide-de-camp to Queen Elizabeth II on 7 July 1974.[8]
Placed on Retired List (Medically Unfit) on 29 November 1974.
@@markbenjamin1703 - thank you!
I joined the Navy in 1968, aged 15. In 1969, after basic training at HMS Ganges and communications training at HMS Mercury I joined HMS Forth, SM7, in Singapore, my first ship, aged 16. As a tactical radio operator/signalman I spent a lot of time around Captain Launders and I remember him as a kind and considerate officer towards us very junior ratings. He always asked how we were, being young and a long way from home. A true gentleman, very modest, and always looked uncomfortable when they piped him aboard from his barge (I would often be at the ensign, waiting to do colours when he arrived on the quarterdeck). The best captain I served under.
totally fascinating! i love when history videos like this, yes the more “dry” and purely factual type of videos,
intentionally so, I love when these get recommended in my feed and I find a new history source to view. I also like the more sensationalized story-like types of videos too but one must be careful on those to not get sucked into a speculative history or pseudo history or a “fictional story based on true events”. Which is why I love these type of ones based purely on the facts and reports reported by the primary sources at that time. Excellent!
If there were any during the cold war, I'm absolutely positive that news of the event or events would never be disseminated to the public.
At the same time, ships would disappear from the historical record
A lot of people don’t understand how much underwater acoustic recognition has improved over the years. Active sonar, the, ‘Ping’ so to speak, is archiac technology. Passive sonar is on another level of comprehension.
All active Russian submarines have plotted locations, headings and depth plotted even beyond the thermocline.
It could also be argued that the Russians have also developed this technology. Nevermind, MAD. Nothing hides in the ocean anymore except for the practical use of human endeavor to explore the delights of our planet unless it’s to wage war.
Let's not forget that the first submarine to destroy another submarine was British AND
the first submarine that got destroyed by another submarine was also British.
AND.
This battle was conducted while both submarines were on the surface and within eyesight of each other.
This fantastic fact is provided free of charge for public knowledge.
I've already recommended that Britain give up it's submarine fleet but you know the British, if it doesn't work, so what, it ain't costing us anything.
Damn RIP, pretty terrifying way to go.
Launders was just EPIC.
He did something that had never ever been done before. And he did it casual and coolly as can be.
There needs to be a movie done about this heroic real life story from WW2!
I saw this on the tv show HELL BELOW.
I was awestruck when I first saw it...
Definitely he's one of the many brave and courageous young men who fought in WW2...
He's part of the Greatest Generation To Have Ever Walked The Earth!! ❤🇬🇧🙏
God Bless Him and His Crew!!
Very interesting, thank you for schowcasing this one-of incident
RIP to the lost souls
Interesting, thanks. Not meaning to nitpick , but it should have been sank, not sunk. It sank. It had sunk.
HMS Venturer's first sub kill, while legitimate, was basically shooting at a sitting duck. The second kill was more like what one would suspect as the U-Boat was underway and never knew what hit it. In the US Navy, there was a destroyer escort that became Japan's worth nightmare, the USS England, that sank six Japanese submarines in just 12 days in May 1944.
Question for you submariners out there, would the U boat crew hear the torpedoes closing on them? or too much machinery noise would hide the torpedo.
torpedoes are very loud. Launder's report says that the U boat was taking evasive maneuvers by zig zagging, and that it was running at very slow 3.5 knots so they were probably using the electric engines. so it is highly probable that they heard the torpedoes
Seems to me the big challenge would be guaging the depth of your opponent to target them properly.
i think they were able to "cheat" marginally because the very top of the conning tower was visible above the waterline, but it's still a pretty incredible shot
@@andrewroberts7428 No, I understand that only the U-boat's periscope was visible to the Venturer's Captain. They had to mainly rely on what they were hearing.
@@franc9111 i mean, if the enemy sub's periscope is just visible at the water line, that gives you some sense of the enemy sub's depth, maybe a meter or two below the water line. it would be an entirely different matter if the enemy sub were submerged 30 meters, i would imagine it would be exceedingly difficult to accurately gauge it's depth in that case. it makes me wonder if it's somehow possible by pinging sonar off the enemy sub, and perhaps bouncing sonar off the ocean floor and then towards the sub, and calculating depth based on triangulation. it would be impractical because you'd reveal your presence to the enemy sub, but i still wonder if it's possible...
@@andrewroberts7428 Bouncing sonar off other objects first can be difficult due to inversion layers, etc. The characteristics of the layer may be different directly under your submarine compared to the reflection point between your submarine and the target. Similarly when trying to bounce off the surface (the air-water interface).
I saw a movie where a sub blew it's self up with it's own torpedo, it was the ultimate
sub to sub kill.
If you are taking requests can you do a video about MV Full City hijack, hijack of Kartepe seabus or Turkish operations in Syria maybe like Battle of Aqil Mountain?
Thanks for the story, excellent.
So glad he took out two subs, wish it had been far more! U-boats attacking unarmed merchantmen with zero chance of survival, is about as disgusting and low as you can get!
It's exactly what he was doing though.
It’s also what the us navy’s sub fleet did when wwii broke out. That’s what subs were meant to do - wwii subs weren’t like modern attack subs. They were pretty vulnerable.
Two on that one patrol. The rest of his record isn't specified. (I don't know either.)
As low as leveling entire cities with incendiary bombs?
@@lordofthemound3890 They can go into shelters, they can move out of the city. I agree both are horrible.
A fine example of the exploits of our naval heroes. I pay respects to the memory of the German crews.
they are burning in hell as we speak
@@buffcommie942 probably quite crispy by now
@@buffcommie942 Unless they knew Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.
@@buffcommie942 Along with all those RAF war criminals I suppose
@@anthrazitestupid comment . Dozy pri k
But... there was one in; "The Hunt For Red October"!
Think how incredibly proud and excited the crew must’ve been to get a UBoat kill
I seem to remember A History Channel episode of a submarine carrying tons of mercury to go to Japan. Along with other jet aircraft Parts at cetera at cetera being sunk off the coast of Norway as well.?
Such a horrible way to die, modern war is charnel yet spectacular.
I don't mean to be pedantic, but wouldn't it be better to have HMS Venturer as the thumbnail?
In February 1945, USS Batfish would engage and destroy 3 other submarines (Japanese) in a 76 hour period. They did so using only their new upgrades to their detection equipment - no visual identification. Sonar be scary.
But not underwater, that is the point of this action which has never been repeated.
A shame it was sold and scrapped, should have been preserved as a museum piece.
Thank you
Fascinating story and an excellent presentation.
I absolutely love your content. Looking forward to the next video!
Like the video, however… did nobody proofread the subtitles???
Nice Research Thank You
Great video! Very interesting.
We have also one in history of ours.
It is about the valour of the crew aboard the Indian submarine INS Karanj (S21), which destroyed the Pakistani PNS Ghazi submarine when it ventured into Indian waters to destroy INS Vikrant on the shores of Visakhapatnam.
The PNS ghazi was sunk by the indian destroyer INS Rajput
The Indian Navy laid a trap for PNS Ghazi but the sub went down on its own because of Internal explosion before it could reach location. It's pretty clear from the wreck that it suffered internal explosion
To wait and precisely calculate to hit a submerged zig-zagging submarine, incredible from Launders.
What are the chances of an allied sub getting the drop on two u-boats. The chance of two enemy subs encountering each other was low in WW2 but two?
I'd always made the claim that there was never a Sub V.S. Sub fight in all history. Guess I was wrong.
You know what blows most people's minds. There has not been one American military aircraft shot down by another aircraft since the Vietnam war.
Are you sure there's been no blue on blue incidents? Yanks are famous for firing first, and thinking later, if at all. Killed several of our boys in the gulf, straffing a british convoy.
@@alexcamron7446 I actually listened to the audio of an Airforce Pilot who had just bombed a British convoy. He didn't take finding out very well. Very awful.
I don't know about accidents, but I am quite sure no enemy plane has shot down an American plane since Vietnam.
@@alexcamron7446 There is an upside to Americans being willing to open fire. It has a bad result sometimes, but sometimes a mass murderer doesn't go to trial, and doesn't get to do interviews on TV and stuff.
You're forgetting the sub battle in Down Periscope. 😃👍
Yes excellent video
At last. Epic Submarine Battle.
Well made video 👍
Back when I was younger, I thought this was the thing that submarines did, just fight eachother XD
I thought that until just now haha (meaning I thought subs must have fought other subs frequently, not that they _only_ fought other subs)
What does diesel h.e. mean?
Hydrophone echo.
What made me click on this video is that the title implies there was an above water submarine battle.
Was the movie U571 loosely based or inspired by this incident?
No just more yanks won the war Hollywood bullshit. The Brits captured a uboat (renamed HMS graph in british service), as well as later getting a working enigma from a shot up, sinking uboat that the crew abandoned. I believe that some of the boarding party were drowned as it sank. AFAIK the Americans did sweet FA in the Atlantic theatre.
For some reason in my head there were underwater sub battles happening all the time in WW2 lol guess i just never read or saw anything stating otherwise
Poetic. The Norwegian Government bought the submarine that sank one of their merchant vessels.
"The Only Underwater Submarine Battle in History" That is public information.
Thank you.
I think it's kind of anti-climactic only time there's been a underwater sub battles near the closing days in the end of ww2
Wow
2:20 ice cold shot
Incorrect: In November of 1984, shortly before Gorbachev came to power, a Soviet Typhoon-class submarine surfaced just south of the Grand Banks. It then sank in deep water, apparently suffering from a radiation problem. Unconfirmed reports indicate some of the crew were rescued. But according to statements by both the Soviet and American governments, none of what you are about to see… ever happened.
I find this interesting.
In the Pacific Royal Navy submarines only made up 7% of allied submarines, but sunk 23 % of all Japanese submarines.
Is this false?
Did U-864 ever catch the Venturer on hydrophones? Seems weird to think they never knew about an enemy vessel gaining on them from the side
U-864's own excessive noise from the malfunctioning diesel engine probably made it impossible to detect the Venturer which would have been on her electric motors. You could only hope to hear another submarine if you yourself were running slowly, quietly on electric. (U-864 was using the snorkel to run on the diesel engines)
There is a complete documentary available on CZcams about this attack which includes interviews with members of the crew. They described in detail how he calculated the U-boat's zigzag course. When the first torpedoes were fired and missed, the U-boat captain must have realised what was going on. He tried turning away and going downwards to avoid any other torpedoes, but the last remaining one was already launched and hit the U-boat just at that moment. In the documentary, they show the rear end pointing upwards with the rudder turned to one side, just as one of the RN crew members had predicted. The crew were afraid that as they no longer had any torpedoes, if that last one had missed, they themselves could easily have become potential victims of an attack. I didn't know that that they had successfully attacked another U-boat earlier on. The mercury on board has of course become a major polution risk, as a number of the metal cannisters are leaking. The German Government consider it to be a war grave and don't want it to be disturbed, but I fear that at some later date it's going to have to be dealt with.
The skills of the best navy in history.
Still, such terrible loss of life in those encounters. Both German vessels never knew what hit them until it was to late to react.
Unfortunately that's war and ordinary people die. I will never bring up my children to join the military to satisfy the elite.
My step brother only ever wanted to join the army which he did.
After all his training at Sandhurst to become an officer he left at the first opportunity. He was appalled to watch people being murdered in Bosina and he could do nothing about it..
How about encouraging your children to join the military to keep the world free?
hmm there were two attacks i only heared about the one outside bergen good video
Good job!
Thank you-they did well, wise, and sneaky too.
What about the battle between USS Scamp (SS-277) and I-168?
It's funny how much of a trope this is in TV and movies. Hunt for Red October for example. But this is the only time it ever actually happened.
I always assumed it was common for subs to fight each other underwater
Not necessarily the only one -the only one where one side survived to tell the tale! !!
what that doesnt work like that
Most engangement have been recorded by atleast one site
if there where more of these battles then there would have been recordings of it
Meanwhile Hollywwood made us believe there were many submarine battles.
Remarkable!
Very interesting. Thank you for the video. If you're a lieutenant commanding a submarine are you still called captain?
Yes
The commanding officer, regardless of rank, is always referred to as Captain.
@@richardpearcy6149 thank you
@@michaelkovacic2608 thank you
……. That we’ve been told about
The German sun actually dove I heard and tried to evade but the brits predicted this
i thought this video was gonna have an animation/simulation with it...