I agree with this guy. I just wiped out a cam pre-pumping them and trying to set valve lash incorrectly. If I would have done this I wouldn't be taking my engine back apart right now and ordering a new cam and lifters. Do exactly what this guy says.
I rebuilt my ford 4.2 soaked the lifters, but had two that wouldn't pump up, very loose. Just took off my intake and have the new ones soaking. I'm afraid if I don't they won't ever pump up.
Not sure I agree. You should measure your push rod length with a dry lifter and a torqued head and correct head gasket add the pre load of the lifter to measurement and select your push rod length. Then soak all lifters but do not pump, Install and check valve tip pattern. Always build oil pressure in the engine on the stand and check rocker arm oiling using a test starter. If all good install if not start over.
I use to set mine with a dial indicator after they were pumped from being soaked. As little as a half a turn would compress the valve-spring and take the dial off set zero, but then the tension would cause the lifter piston to bleed down till the valve seated again and the dial would return back to zero. Later I quit being so anal and just eliminated all the lash and then gave a half to a full turn past it before poly locking. Now I'm going with solid rollers with bushings and a rev kit because I'm sick of dealing with failing hydraulics altogether. To each his own. It's not really about the end result as much as the experience anyway.
OMG, following this advice is the fast track to get you on the naughty "wiped cam & lifter" list. You must pump them up SOLID and treat them like solid lifters and adjust your valves accordingly. When you install the lifters empty, your cam & all lifters have HUGE impacts on them until them pump up. You need to eliminate/minimize those impacts by pumping up beforehand, which also lets you test each lifter for proper function. Also use zinc additive or break-in oil or diesel oil, and prime the oil pump for several minutes while rotating the motor in 1/4 turn intervals.
Good Info Thanks . Harley Davidson lifters you do fill them , if Guy's see this yes car lifters Fit . but they pump up slower then Motorcycle lifters . By chance Your a Harley Owner looking for info Look up S&S Lifters.
Do what the guy in the video says. I just wiped my cam pre-pumping my lifters because I wasn't sure which one was right after hours of reading on the internet. Now I know for sure. I suspect the oil will allow the lifters to pump up to the desired level for your application by doing the above. If you prepump them you better get a push rod checker and take some measurements, because a prepumped lifter ain't giving way to a push rod. Liquids do not compress, and something has to take up the shock of impact since the lifter is max'ed out with fluid.
Remember, when they are locked, they will hold the valve open on initial startup. Slamming the valves into the seats and shocking the whole valve train from combustion pressure. Bending pushrods etc. . It doesn’t happen too often, as one guy on another video comments section said, all his friends and associates must have been really lucky all theses years. Yes, they have.
My new GM lifters are rock solid, so I’m going to soak them in solvent and blow them out to free them up for installation. You are the only one who says this that I’ve seen yet. I’ve been puzzling over this for a week now.
Thanx, I used to rebuild air cooled VWs, only one hydraulic lifter motor out of 30-40. Between this guy, and Pete’s Garage I got it figured out. I disassembled the brand new AC Delco GM brand lifters, and you push the check ball in after removing the the retainer clip, cap, and metering plate. Then pull the piston out and pour out most of the oil. They are now fully free to give under spring pressure. I’m going to spin the motor cold/no spark or gas (with the starter motor) to pump them up before starting/running the engine hot.
So enough of all this, why are the plungers in my new AC Delco GM brand lifters immovable after soaking in Berrymans Chemtool? Should I warm them up a little and when they cool, try again? I’m being real careful pushing on the plunger (pushrod end of course) but no amount of pressure from my thumb or a pushrod with the pressure squarely in line with the plunger direction of travel.
Oops, ended that before finishing my sentence...no amount of pressure will depress the plunger, still hydraulically locked? More soaking in solvent? I’m an old air cooled VW guy, but now I’m on my 2001 Chevy Venture.
@@vperkv6554 I wound up taking all the lifters apart and draining out almost all the oil, then reassembled them and installed them. When you go to start the engine the first time, take out the fuse for the fuel pump and don’t install the spark plugs. Turn the engine over for 5 minutes or maybe 10. If you leave the valve covers off you can tell when the lifters are pumped up by trying the rocker arm movement. Then you can adjust the valve clearance to just under zero, or to put it another way, there is negative clearance, just slightly. But if you adjust the clearance, you have to do it right after cranking the motor to pump up the lifters, or they may bleed down and then you might over adjust the valves. If you have a Venture van, let me know, as my cooling system plugged up about 6 months later and I have a ton of brand new parts in it I’m going to sell.
🤪🤪🤪So, how do you check pushrod length with a hydraulic lifter that's not pumped up and the pushrod will bottom out on initial 1/4 1/2 turns which will effectively reduce maximum travel during normal operation???🔥🔥🔥
@@jameshood3692 mine bottomed out after 1/4 turn with new ls7 lifters, then I used a adjustable rod and made it 1/8 shorter and it was way better, I probably need longer pushrods then right ?
The correct way is to soak then remove all oil to reset I could see why rock solid is bad if the lifter is maxed soaked once start up that lifter is going to pushed extended on the spring to me not worth snapping a coil
Do you have an aftermarket cam/lifters, heads or rocker arms? If the valve doesn't close all the way that sounds like either a pushrod that's too long for the setup you have or you have a lifter that's getting stuck in the lifter bore of the block and not staying down on the camshaft.
@@brentonkurth7007 it’s all stock, turned out the camshafts were bad I replaced them and it’s all good now, car had a snapped timing belt so they must have taken some damage.
On an old car where the oil pump may be weak. Always soak the lifters. Took this guys advice on not to soak them and ended up having to replace 4 out of 8 lifters >.> not every one of them "pumped up" like he claimed.
Old oil pumps and low oil pressure from blocked passages can stop them from filling. They cannot fail to fill up unless something else is wrong. My Chevy dealer service manual says they drain out and clatter on start up under normal circumstances. And “pump up” rapidly.
No, like he said, upon intitial startup, you have a rock solid object in the valve train instead of a spring load gap filler as the cam and lifters on one side, and the lifter, pushrod, rocker arm and valve stem head on the other do there initial wear in/break in moments. The difference is that after the first run, they bleed down because the oil is hot and flows, unlike a brand new cold lifter full of thick, cold oil, which acts like a solid object. This is the question I’ve been asking about my brand new GM original lifters, but they are already locked up from heavy lube, so I’m going to do the opposite of what most common wisdom says, and go with this guy and soak mine in solvent to free them up. Then you turn the engine without running it with the starter motor to pump up the lifters installed in the whole valve train so they aren’t pumped up beyond what’s needed to adjust the valve lash, so there aren’t any valves not closing all the way on the first hot startup, no lash interference.
Also as I pointed out, if they are pumped up all the way by soaking, they may be too extended, removing all valve clearance and creating valve interference: the valve doesn’t close all the way. When they are in the valve train, they cannot extend beyond 0 valve clearance.
It’s crap. Soaking lifters is not the same as them being pumped up with pressure. Even if they are “pumped up” it doesn’t matter. When adjusting lash you find zero and do whatever preload you want regardless if it’s hard or not. You must understand how to feel out a lifter that is or is not pumped up when adjusting valves. He must think it’s a bad idea to adjust valves with the engine running because... hold on... the lifters are pumped up when the engine is running. SMDH.
Are you trying to argue semantics? I take it you've never heard the term, "adjusting valves." It's the same thing. If you screw up adjusting the lifters then the valves will be affected. Point is, this guy has zero idea what he's talking about when it comes to lifters being "pumped up" by simply soaking in oil. Gravity can't "pump up" a lifter.
* Disclaimer*: I participate in these faceless back and forth as an educational outlet and mental exercise to help me focus on the issues being discussed. No offense is intended or taken, as complete strangers should have good manners. My goal is what’s right, not who’s right. That said.......If you look up hydraulic lifters on the internet, somewhere around half the time they are referred to as lash adjusters. I never owned anything but air cooled VWs from 1972 to 2017. I rebuilt about 30-40 of those engines. I did all the repairs and maintenance on them after 1978. I only built one hydraulic lifter motor out of them all. I worked at a machine shop that specialized in the air cooled VWs for over 30 years. They also wound up with the contract for the San Diego city bus system. We did all the blocks, heads, and connecting rods for the Detroit Diesels and the Mann engines. My IQ is verified over 160...and after missing over half the school year for three years running, I got the second highest score on my junior high English final out of 235 students in the teachers 6 classes. So...semantics? Pumped up is a loosely used term, they simply mean that the lifters is full of oil, and combined with the plunger spring,that opens up the lifter to it’s full length. You DO NOT “adjust” the lash, especially by tightening the rocker shaft nut or bolt!!!! If the the lifter is fully extended and rock hard from thick cold oil, and the full length of the lifters are too long (foregone conclusion) the valves won’t close all the way on the initial new engine startup. I leave it to your critical thinking skills to see what that does to new valves and valve seat faces. Likewise when the flame front hits the valve head and slams the valve into the seat/rocker arm/pushrod/lifter/CAM LOBE FACE. There’s more, but as Jim Carry’s “The Riddler” said...”...but only the first one’s free”.
Just.... wow. The fact of the matter is, considering the fact that PR length has already been verified it doesn't matter if the lifter is full of oil or not. Before any preload is put onto the lifter the plunger is against the lock ring, again, regardless if the lifter is "pumped up" or not. Once lash is found still means the plunger is at it's highest point- up against the lock ring. Your ability then comes into play as to how to find zero lash w/out applying preload onto the lifter. It really is not rocket science.
I agree with this guy. I just wiped out a cam pre-pumping them and trying to set valve lash incorrectly. If I would have done this I wouldn't be taking my engine back apart right now and ordering a new cam and lifters. Do exactly what this guy says.
Absolutely correct. Sometimes they fully extend and can’t get them to bleed down to adjust valves correctly.
I f-ing knew it in my gut! Now I truly understand the situation! Thanks for posting 8 years ago!
I rebuilt my ford 4.2 soaked the lifters, but had two that wouldn't pump up, very loose. Just took off my intake and have the new ones soaking. I'm afraid if I don't they won't ever pump up.
You are absolutely right big brother 🙂🙏🏻
Not sure I agree. You should measure your push rod length with a dry lifter and a torqued head and correct head gasket add the pre load of the lifter to measurement and select your push rod length. Then soak all lifters but do not pump, Install and check valve tip pattern. Always build oil pressure in the engine on the stand and check rocker arm oiling using a test starter. If all good install if not start over.
I use to set mine with a dial indicator after they were pumped from being soaked. As little as a half a turn would compress the valve-spring and take the dial off set zero, but then the tension would cause the lifter piston to bleed down till the valve seated again and the dial would return back to zero. Later I quit being so anal and just eliminated all the lash and then gave a half to a full turn past it before poly locking. Now I'm going with solid rollers with bushings and a rev kit because I'm sick of dealing with failing hydraulics altogether. To each his own. It's not really about the end result as much as the experience anyway.
FOR SURE THE RIGHT WAY!! 👍🏼
Thanks :)
OMG, following this advice is the fast track to get you on the naughty "wiped cam & lifter" list. You must pump them up SOLID and treat them like solid lifters and adjust your valves accordingly. When you install the lifters empty, your cam & all lifters have HUGE impacts on them until them pump up. You need to eliminate/minimize those impacts by pumping up beforehand, which also lets you test each lifter for proper function. Also use zinc additive or break-in oil or diesel oil, and prime the oil pump for several minutes while rotating the motor in 1/4 turn intervals.
Good Info Thanks . Harley Davidson lifters you do fill them , if Guy's see this yes car lifters Fit . but they pump up slower then Motorcycle lifters . By chance Your a Harley Owner looking for info Look up S&S Lifters.
I soak my lifters in transmissions fluid and I have never had any problems
I like this guy
I had a lot of people tell me not to soak since you have to be able to turn the rocker nuts .25-.5 turns past 0 lash
Do what the guy in the video says. I just wiped my cam pre-pumping my lifters because I wasn't sure which one was right after hours of reading on the internet. Now I know for sure. I suspect the oil will allow the lifters to pump up to the desired level for your application by doing the above. If you prepump them you better get a push rod checker and take some measurements, because a prepumped lifter ain't giving way to a push rod. Liquids do not compress, and something has to take up the shock of impact since the lifter is max'ed out with fluid.
Remember, when they are locked, they will hold the valve open on initial startup. Slamming the valves into the seats and shocking the whole valve train from combustion pressure. Bending pushrods etc. . It doesn’t happen too often, as one guy on another video comments section said, all his friends and associates must have been really lucky all theses years. Yes, they have.
Oops, that guy is in this comment section. He’s mad at me.
Early in our careers, many mechanics did soak them. The problem comes when you don't bleed them down!
My new GM lifters are rock solid, so I’m going to soak them in solvent and blow them out to free them up for installation. You are the only one who says this that I’ve seen yet. I’ve been puzzling over this for a week now.
Robert Bowen make sure they aren’t solid lifters cause there are solid and hydraulic
Thanx, I used to rebuild air cooled VWs, only one hydraulic lifter motor out of 30-40. Between this guy, and Pete’s Garage I got it figured out. I disassembled the brand new AC Delco GM brand lifters, and you push the check ball in after removing the the retainer clip, cap, and metering plate. Then pull the piston out and pour out most of the oil. They are now fully free to give under spring pressure. I’m going to spin the motor cold/no spark or gas (with the starter motor) to pump them up before starting/running the engine hot.
So enough of all this, why are the plungers in my new AC Delco GM brand lifters immovable after soaking in Berrymans Chemtool? Should I warm them up a little and when they cool, try again? I’m being real careful pushing on the plunger (pushrod end of course) but no amount of pressure from my thumb or a pushrod with the pressure squarely in line with the plunger direction of travel.
Oops, ended that before finishing my sentence...no amount of pressure will depress the plunger, still hydraulically locked? More soaking in solvent? I’m an old air cooled VW guy, but now I’m on my 2001 Chevy Venture.
@@5400bowen what did you soak the lifters in? Did it free them up?
What did you end up doing??
Because im Literally doing thee exact samething now
@@vperkv6554 I wound up taking all the lifters apart and draining out almost all the oil, then reassembled them and installed them. When you go to start the engine the first time, take out the fuse for the fuel pump and don’t install the spark plugs. Turn the engine over for 5 minutes or maybe 10. If you leave the valve covers off you can tell when the lifters are pumped up by trying the rocker arm movement. Then you can adjust the valve clearance to just under zero, or to put it another way, there is negative clearance, just slightly. But if you adjust the clearance, you have to do it right after cranking the motor to pump up the lifters, or they may bleed down and then you might over adjust the valves. If you have a Venture van, let me know, as my cooling system plugged up about 6 months later and I have a ton of brand new parts in it I’m going to sell.
@@5400bowen oh, i have the gmc 5.3. , there isnt any valve adjustment.
🤪🤪🤪So, how do you check pushrod length with a hydraulic lifter that's not pumped up and the pushrod will bottom out on initial 1/4 1/2 turns which will effectively reduce maximum travel during normal operation???🔥🔥🔥
buy a solid lifter for checking purposes
If your pushrod bottoms out after a 1/4-1/2 turn you have more issues, either your going past zero lash then tightening or something else
Set rocker to 90* with valve closed then count turns down on your nut for half lift and use a push rod checker to get you pushrod length
@@jameshood3692 mine bottomed out after 1/4 turn with new ls7 lifters, then I used a adjustable rod and made it 1/8 shorter and it was way better, I probably need longer pushrods then right ?
The correct way is to soak then remove all oil to reset I could see why rock solid is bad if the lifter is maxed soaked once start up that lifter is going to pushed extended on the spring to me not worth snapping a coil
I’ve got some weird issue with my lifters pumping up too much and holding the valves slightly off the seats
Do you have an aftermarket cam/lifters, heads or rocker arms? If the valve doesn't close all the way that sounds like either a pushrod that's too long for the setup you have or you have a lifter that's getting stuck in the lifter bore of the block and not staying down on the camshaft.
@@brentonkurth7007 it’s all stock, turned out the camshafts were bad I replaced them and it’s all good now, car had a snapped timing belt so they must have taken some damage.
Do I need to pump mine up for push rod measuring?
well, didnt soak on a couple of motors and they never build up, replaced lifters soaked them and they built right up
good to know!
Soaking takes to long to long best to use an oil can pumping and pushing tight against the little hole to n the side.
Yea I see this and disagree I've been taught by old school mechanics everyone of them soak there lifters
On an old car where the oil pump may be weak. Always soak the lifters.
Took this guys advice on not to soak them and ended up having to replace 4 out of 8 lifters >.> not every one of them "pumped up" like he claimed.
Old oil pumps and low oil pressure from blocked passages can stop them from filling. They cannot fail to fill up unless something else is wrong. My Chevy dealer service manual says they drain out and clatter on start up under normal circumstances. And “pump up” rapidly.
umm soak them dude.... its a process. my adui manual says 12hrs set time after soak so the valves seat.
but once they pump up, and you shut the engine off, and restart, isn't that the same as socking them in oil before initial installation?
No, like he said, upon intitial startup, you have a rock solid object in the valve train instead of a spring load gap filler as the cam and lifters on one side, and the lifter, pushrod, rocker arm and valve stem head on the other do there initial wear in/break in moments. The difference is that after the first run, they bleed down because the oil is hot and flows, unlike a brand new cold lifter full of thick, cold oil, which acts like a solid object. This is the question I’ve been asking about my brand new GM original lifters, but they are already locked up from heavy lube, so I’m going to do the opposite of what most common wisdom says, and go with this guy and soak mine in solvent to free them up. Then you turn the engine without running it with the starter motor to pump up the lifters installed in the whole valve train so they aren’t pumped up beyond what’s needed to adjust the valve lash, so there aren’t any valves not closing all the way on the first hot startup, no lash interference.
Also as I pointed out, if they are pumped up all the way by soaking, they may be too extended, removing all valve clearance and creating valve interference: the valve doesn’t close all the way. When they are in the valve train, they cannot extend beyond 0 valve clearance.
Oil pump automatically pumps pressure needed for any specific engine psi
If I don't soak them they just rattle and never pump up, brand new lifters too.
Bleed the lifter before install
It’s crap. Soaking lifters is not the same as them being pumped up with pressure. Even if they are “pumped up” it doesn’t matter. When adjusting lash you find zero and do whatever preload you want regardless if it’s hard or not. You must understand how to feel out a lifter that is or is not pumped up when adjusting valves. He must think it’s a bad idea to adjust valves with the engine running because... hold on... the lifters are pumped up when the engine is running. SMDH.
What engine with hydraulic lifters has a valve adjustment mechanism? Hydraulic lifters adjust the lash, that’s what they are for.
Are you trying to argue semantics? I take it you've never heard the term, "adjusting valves." It's the same thing. If you screw up adjusting the lifters then the valves will be affected. Point is, this guy has zero idea what he's talking about when it comes to lifters being "pumped up" by simply soaking in oil. Gravity can't "pump up" a lifter.
* Disclaimer*: I participate in these faceless back and forth as an educational outlet and mental exercise to help me focus on the issues being discussed. No offense is intended or taken, as complete strangers should have good manners. My goal is what’s right, not who’s right. That said.......If you look up hydraulic lifters on the internet, somewhere around half the time they are referred to as lash adjusters. I never owned anything but air cooled VWs from 1972 to 2017. I rebuilt about 30-40 of those engines. I did all the repairs and maintenance on them after 1978. I only built one hydraulic lifter motor out of them all. I worked at a machine shop that specialized in the air cooled VWs for over 30 years. They also wound up with the contract for the San Diego city bus system. We did all the blocks, heads, and connecting rods for the Detroit Diesels and the Mann engines. My IQ is verified over 160...and after missing over half the school year for three years running, I got the second highest score on my junior high English final out of 235 students in the teachers 6 classes. So...semantics? Pumped up is a loosely used term, they simply mean that the lifters is full of oil, and combined with the plunger spring,that opens up the lifter to it’s full length. You DO NOT “adjust” the lash, especially by tightening the rocker shaft nut or bolt!!!! If the the lifter is fully extended and rock hard from thick cold oil, and the full length of the lifters are too long (foregone conclusion) the valves won’t close all the way on the initial new engine startup. I leave it to your critical thinking skills to see what that does to new valves and valve seat faces. Likewise when the flame front hits the valve head and slams the valve into the seat/rocker arm/pushrod/lifter/CAM LOBE FACE. There’s more, but as Jim Carry’s “The Riddler” said...”...but only the first one’s free”.
...when the lifter is...or when the lifters ARE full of oil. And the exhaust valves suffer the most.
Just.... wow. The fact of the matter is, considering the fact that PR length has already been verified it doesn't matter if the lifter is full of oil or not. Before any preload is put onto the lifter the plunger is against the lock ring, again, regardless if the lifter is "pumped up" or not. Once lash is found still means the plunger is at it's highest point- up against the lock ring. Your ability then comes into play as to how to find zero lash w/out applying preload onto the lifter. It really is not rocket science.
I soak and then give them like an hour to rest on a towel before final assembly