Why New Music is SO BAD 😔
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- čas přidán 25. 03. 2023
- Were boomers right about music? Let's take a look.
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And here is my CZcams video on how I tried to promote my track by using instagram ads, dont know if that failed. 😅
czcams.com/video/VIIxHxmd2Dk/video.html
Thanks Alice. I listen to all genres, from classical to the latest stuff, and then decide what I like. If you don't listen and allow yourself to learn what makes the genre cool, you won't appreciate any of it. As I'm 61, it's important to keep the inner child well-fed and happy. Loose that and you will only ever listen to a set of tracks you know well. Love and light. 💜
GLOBALISATION and QUANTIFICATION have replaced TRUE CREATIVITY, same with movies, products, our value system.
Whole-hearted agree!
You should check out bladees album "the fool" if you want to listen to a whole new sound( not promoting him he's my fav artist and already very famous lol)
@@pedro-wu6hp Thanks. I like the track Desiree already.
@@mageprometheus u might like ecco2k as well, he's a part of bladee's collective, his debut album "e" is really beautiful imo, ive been listening to nothing else lately haha
The amount of effort and creativity you put into explaining everything so it can be easily understood by anyone is staggering, Alice. Your channel is a gold mine. Wishing you the best, you deserve tons of success.
Thank you, really appreciate it! I do my best to make it clear to compensate my accent, haha 😅🎶
Excellent video so far. But if that poll was why dynamic range was excluded, I have some problems with the methodology. For one, they are electronic sounds, done in a style for which compressed dynamic range is a feature. The sounds are also limited in number, maybe the poll results would have been different if a full song was used? And a third point is that the example is short, no time for the ears to get tired of listening to the piece. Now, I’m not claiming I know any more, other than my own experience, intuition and preferences but I don’t think that was an adequate experiment. Also, in my own production, these days anyway - in the 90s I was as bad as anyone in crushing dynamics as far as I could get away with given my targets were radio and TV - But these days as I’m retired from professional engineering and production, I do things for my own taste and I try to let stuff breathe more - when appropriate. I do find a lot of pop music is hideously crushed from beginning to end but that just might be my older ears.
I agree with this - compression and limiting is genre-dependent. The problems start when things are over-compressed that should not be over-compressed. Some music is meant to sound crushed, and that's fine if people want it that way. By the way, I found examples 1 and 2 very similar and both OK, but I liked number 3 the least. I could tell the transients had been chopped off, and it sounded dull.
I was just about to write my thoughts on the dynamics subject but your reply already says exactly what I think. I strongly disagree both with the method and the rapid dismissal of the topic. I actually think that Dynamics is one of the worst part of music today - across all genres.
Fantastic vid. My personal view why some music isn’t as good as it was before is coz some singers pronounce their words in this weird modern way idk how to describe it lol. Then there’s a lot of melodic vocal repetition (not just in the hook.) Autotune is overused even in stripped down bland tracks. & lastly, the chord progressions are dull with hardly any key changes.
Producers can now actually finish more tracks because they learn from you while your channel didn't exist in the 80s or 70s. Thank you so much for taking this responsibility ❤
That was nice way to look into it. I realized I also like these kinda music production & research videos. I was finding useless for it doesn't benefit you to get better at music production, but also it was deriving from the people who talks too much about mental things such as perfectionism, depression etc again and again but as for your video, these pieces of info and research culture of yours are lit. This video is like an exact definition of ear candy for me. Not a tutorial but something chill to watch and listen and feels good to know, like a mind-opener. And I see how long preparation it has. Great effort. Thanks for sharing it Alice. 👍
Thanks a ton! I really really enjoy doing "candy" videos in between tutorials lately because they are fun to make and I learn a lot of new things while researching for them. Really happy to hear that you liked it as well.
Thank you Alice for this video. I always listened to a lot of different kind of musics. The older I get, the more difficult it’s for me to find something artistic committed. I think we don’t let artists enough time to develop their artistic identity like music industry used to. Today, I know that if I can’t find my audience in less than 3 months on the streaming plateformes, it’s done. The algorithm won’t give me new opportunities. So, if you have a bunch of money able to promote properly your tracks in a short time, you will only have your gigs to find your fans.
For me it's actually towards the opposite, the older I get the more I'm interested in other forms of music. Sometimes I do not get immediate access and it takes time until I understand the underlying structures and ideas - and sometime I fail totally - but it's much more thrilling than listening to the same old songs over and over again like other people in my age do. Anyone with a similar experience here?
BTW, a brilliant video, thanks a lot!
Absolutely! I turned 50 this year and am much more wide-ranging and experimental in my tastes than I was in my 20s. Having said that, modern music is still pretty bad. I agree with most of Alice's interpretation but the reliance on algorithms actually works against discovering new music you like. A musical gatekeeper sounds negative but that system was basically made up of ordinary people who could be just as surprised and excited by a something different and decide to push it out into the world. A machine can't do that. Spotify will never surprise you.
@@owenturley6214 I am actually thinking about that this might be a side-effect of "perceived sameness" - so we need bigger differences in style for the feeling of something new. However I do love fishing for music from very different countries, like the Eré Méla song from Ethiopia, or discovering Altan Urag and The Hu from Mongolia. Maybe it is also becoming "sedentary" with music versus keeping your muscles trained by constant exercise?
Yep, same here, also I don't care so much anymore about what others will think, so I'm more open to experiment
Me too. That’s why I listen exclusively to kpop where they mesh different genres into one song for the most part. The beats hit hard.
Yep, similar experience here! I'm almost 58 and I'm still discovering new genres and artists. Recently I started getting into microtonal stuff.
Yes! I will be sharing this video for sure! Thanks!
Where did you learn how to make videos? I've watched your stuff for a couple of years and you've gone from webcam to making stuff that is actually better than 99% of TV shows. I really love the background music. I love how small background sounds can create moods and feelings. Its like ASMR or something, its very pleasant to listen to, like I feel like I'm in an art gallery or a museum or something just chilling and it makes the message just wash over you 😍
Alice thanks for this brilliant research, and personally im glad all the gatekeepers are gone. Ive still kept my rejected CDs even blank ones I had sent to the AR to return back with the same letter they send out to many others who most probably gave up.But then the internet came.
Even though it's tough competition out there but its important to listen to all genres from past and present,to develop your skills and then to market the music ideas out to the public as now the access to people is easier than those gatekeepers from the past blocking you.
Incredible work; You're absolute slaying! Thanks for the research; structure and sharing your insight on this;
Great work!
GOSH you're quickly turning into my fav! Amazing editing and helpful for visual learners. Keep up the Fantastic work!
Very good points, and many good points in the comments. I think part of the "new music is worse" attitude is psychology. I heard the same thing from the older generation when I was a kid in the 60s. Go to most CZcams music videos from any era and there are comments saying, "This was the best decade for music." They can't all be the best decade. Or can they?
I think - in general! - music hits you hardest in the teenage years into the 20s. Break up tune - you're experiencing your first breakup, and you'll never be whole again! Hard rock - or rap, or house, etc. - you're angry and they get you! Whereas - again, generalizing heavily - the over-45 crowd may see the first tune as yet another breakup song, and the second song as "those spoiled kids" being angry at...you.
There are good and bad songs in every year. There's still plenty of harmony and chord changes (see: Indie for example), but it's now alongside all the cool shape-shifting you can do with techno and DAWs. There are still great melodies, but alongside rap which can fuse poetry and the percussive side of speaking. And so on. And these days, with streaming, you can sift through new (and old) music with ease, and find the gems you like. People still break up and have angst, and we have everything from still-present electric guitars to Abelton Live (I use both), and a million things in between, and combinations thereof to express those and other emotions musically.
or 'the older you get, the more you're willing to put up with tense sounds' which are a wonderful part of a diverse and interesting music experience.
I do find that modern music just often has a level of insincerity to it that I don't feel as often in stuff from the 20th century. Partly its because there's greater variation and nuance even in songs with repetition since there's minimal looping possible. Partly its a lack of harmonic adventurousness since so many people write a song at a daw and confuse cool soundscapes for songwriting. Partly its that every genre has fused itself with pop music in order to desperately cling to survival, especially since about 2008 it seems. Partly its a decline in musicianship since everything is so fragmented and hyper-capitalist. Partly its that since young people don't have money now and typically only parents with children have money, the major labels prioritize content for children and tweens while packaging them as artists for all ages and gets plenty of adults to join the club too. Songs are written and demoed in 4 hour sessions rather than slaving for years on a verse like Leonard Cohen sometimes did. I'm sort of tempted to write a book explaining the decline of music, and yes I do mean music as a whole... its too complicated. I'm a millennial saying this btw, not a jaded boomer.
Wooow magnifique!!! we are all learning a lot really fast from your sharings!, you do a smart reserch to put real content with exellent editing and candy coloured scenes to keep us smiling while we are learning pro stuff!!!! i appreciate your sincerity when you talk! always saying your true and telling us thats your view point, that i call it LOVE!!!
I spend my las week learning from you! producing and remaking my songs day and night!! thanks for all this information your channel is a life changer for the good!! thanks!!! LOVE!
I am currently doing my masters in Language Technology and i 'm hopping in doing a thesis (with a specific professor) combining music (since i have some back round in music making). You did a beautiful job here :O, really enjoyed it. (tbh i enjoy every video of yous so i am a bit biased :D )
Aww thanks a ton! Hope you have your thesis combined with music, that sounds tons of fun! 😊
Thanks Alice. I really appreciate you scientific and rational approach, and I think that music producers have to deal with this realities. But a part of me is sad with that, because that is going away from artistic vision and creativity.
I understand what you are saying, but I think there is one major difference between earlier music and modern is in vocalists. When I was in my teens (mid sixties to mid seventies) vocalists were all very distinctive, you could tell Rod Stewart from Van Morrison, or John Lennon or Bob Dylan from the very first word. Nowadays I think vocalists have been drowned in auto tune and other effects so that they have no character left in their recorded performances. No doubt there are some exceptions, Adele for example, but mostly I find voices indistinct these days.
I'd love to see you do a video on ear training, how you did/do it
It's always an interesting topic.
In theory I would say that 'mainstream' music has got worse, but not for the reasons in your (excellent) video. I grew up musically in the late 80's and I noticed a shift around 1986 ish where mainstream music became bland and sterile. It was pretty much around the time when sequencers and computers took over. I think the thing that is lacking and makes it hard for older listeners to connect is the on the grid, autotuned sample based or sequenced, cut n paste formula based filler that's taken over the last decade or so. There's only a handfull of writers creating the 'hits' and several writers on each track. It's about a fast buck and the way it looks.
With the older music you'd have the human element which I think has more of a connection. Everything was played. Even the early synth pop stuff was played in (forget about the drum machine). There were generic sounds, but different recording techniques and producers, studios and musicians would all sound different.
Now everyone has a DAW, the same synths/plugins/samples and same AI mastering. I think that makes a subtle difference to how older people hear new music. It's like a movie substituting plot and character development in favour of CGI. Looks good, but doesn't have any personality.
The true test would be to take people from different eras and have them listen to each others eras pop music. They would all have to be the same age in two groups like 15 year olds and 40 year olds. You would also need a time machine, so this experiment won't be happening soon!
As I'm 39 and a few months (lost count of how many) I'd be considered old. When I teach or do masterclasses I always take an interest in what people are listening to. A vast majority listen to older stuff. However, there are lot's of new artists that are being listened to, but will never be mainstream. Some are really different and interesting.
Like you said, there is just too much stuff out there (and most of it is crap), so it's difficult to hear new good stuff (especially mainstream chart music). Your demonstration of the gatekeepers of old was spot on. We had a filter (albeit a slightly biased one) with TV and radio. We also had magazines that would feature new bands. You would read the album reviews and go out and buy the album. You would invest money, listening time and make a special effort to like all the songs because you'd spent money on it!
Personally, I don't care about genre (I've just been learning electronic music. That's how I stumbled across your channel), but having been a pro musician for over 30 years, I've heard a lot of stuff. I know a lot about music. What I hear in modern (last 10 years or so) is the same progressions, a generic singer or rapper and no development or risk in the music (not just in mainstream chart stuff). Even a lot of rock bands are rehashing the same Zepplin or Sabbath riff or just playing 80's Mettallica, but dropping their tuning lower and lower and calling it a new genre. As you get older you've heard it all before. That's part of the problem. The last new band I got into was Rammstein. Musically it's noting new, but it's a more interesting way to learn German than a textbook!
It's always been the same. If you study Bach or Mozart they only tend to use 3 chords in a piece (with a lot of trickery), but so do Status Quo! If you play Jazz you'll notice recurring 2 5 1's and a lot of the standards from 1930 onwards use the same 1 6 2 5 progression. The biggest difference is the orchestration and arrangements. That's an art that's lost at the moment.
Has music itself, in all genres gotten worse........No, but it's become harder to find the good stuff. Also, every generation has had it's share of audio tat, we sometimes gloss over that part.
Apologies for the long essay, but there's one more point I'd like to offer.
When I was growing up, before I became a musician, there was a much greater diversity of music on TV (not radio). I was exposed to Jazz, experimental classical, funk, heavy metal, punk, flamenco, bulgarian folk music etc long before I became a musician. The strange Czech cartoons we used to watch contained the music of Stockhausen. They made sense in that context. The TV themes and incidental music were a wee bit more quirky and not too generic (soundwise).
The first two songs I remember hearing were Mama Mia and Bohemian Rhapsody. That was mainstream as I was growing up.
So, that's where the bar is set for my generation and possibly why new music is thought of as bland and boring.
It's just a theory.
Enjoyed your video and I'm learning a lot from your channel.
Cheers!!
You are amazing as always Alice!! Thank you for this great informative video!
This is an amazing topic. You are amazing!!!!
This is a very interesting video. Great content! 👏
Thanks Alice! I come from a scientific background as well and this is the type of science I learned. You really are an amazing human being and I hope one day to know as much about music as you do!
I started your course on subtractive synthesis and, even though I don’t consider myself a beginner producer, I’m still gaining a level of understanding that makes the investment so so worth it!
Again, thank you!!
Aww thanks a ton!
Interesting topic. For me, the biggest reason that older music seems "better" is that time is a really good filter. Only the greatest songs stand the test of time. There will be plenty of songs written in 2023 that will be great in 2043 and beyond, in the same way there was plenty of crap that was made in whatever decade anyone says was the best. You don't have to dig too far into the 80's and 90's on Spotify to find some truly forgettable songs.
This is probably one of, if not straight out the best video on the topic I've seen on YT, I like the reasoning, I like the research, I agree on most of the ideas (especially the one about open earedness) but at the same time I think the whole thing ends up being a gross generalization like every other take on the topic; it's really vast, complex, and nearly impossible to discuss with the holistic approach it requires (I'm a physicist, I don't usually like the word holistic any more than engineers do, but here, I think it is definitely appropriate).
On the quantitative side, the only thing I disagree upon is the one about dynamic range; sure, at first hearing it, especially at a reasonably low volume, something more compressed will sound more interesting, but I'm not quite sure that will stay true in a longer listening session and/or at higher volumes. One simple example of it would be trying to listen to say 2 tracks from the same artist before and after the "great limiter revolution" of the late 90s; picking as an example The Prodigy, one could try listening to anything from "music from the Jilted generatiion" and comparing it to anything from "Invaders must die", trying to listen to them at an equal apparent volume, possibly quite loud... I know which one I like the best, but I also think of those three drum loops from you, the first sounded way better, so it could be just a matter of taste. I agree anyway that using dynamic range as a quantitative measure of the quality of music is kinda ridiculous.
Yet, I do think pop music has consistently been getting worse since the 70s. Not that it's "all bad", by all means, every decade and every genre has had its masters and masterpieces, but things have changed a lot; Frank Zappa was already addressing in the 80s how the recording industry had changed, the gatekeeping had changed, making braver and more experimental music harder to produce and to sell (there's a nice interview you can find on YT); later, the internet made everybody's attention span a lot shorter; tracks have to hit in the first 30 seconds, or the modern listener will just skip, as they can, they no longer have the monetary and emotional committment CDs and records imposed; everything seems short-term dopamine driven, therefore somehow superficially satisfactory, as I'm quite sure the YT stats on shorts and the immense success of TikTok show without a doubt.
Ultimately though I believe the real reason art in this time and age kind of sucks, is because most people are scared shitless of the future. The 20th century believed in the future, was imagining a bright time of enlightement, we ended up even thinking Isaac Asimov was a great writer, while Phil K Dick was just some paranoid hobo on acid, yet, since the 80s things started to change, now looking bleaker than ever. Ideals have faded propaganda can turn even the most authentic of ideals in an advertisement for more consumerism... should people be courious and want to try something new? No way. The same goes the other way around; no gatekeepers, just algorithms, in a world of short attention span with an immense amount of competition, what game should an artist play to win? Surely not that of being different and surprising, people now get anxious if they don't know exactly when and what is happening before it does, why would you want to scare them away :D
IIn the eternal struggle for interest between the familiarity effect and the surprise effect, the familiarity effect seems to have won for now, at least on the pop side of art, and that imho makes it somehow less interesting and enjoyable, therefore of lower, subjectively measured, quality.
One thing I will say is that there's so much music now that it feels impossible as a DJ to keep up with any of it. More artists getting to participate in art is a great thing and I'll always be happy for lower barrier of entry, but when you can listen to that many new releases in one day they definitely blur together. I've had to devote much more time to just listening to my collection so I know what I even have than I did 20 or even 10 years ago. It's honestly exhausting. Sometimes I love the music even more than I loved the songs I heard as a kid though.
Excellent very smart video. You are not only a music producer and a tutor, you have so much intelligence to deal with more complex music issues like this.
Thank you for this explanation. This is one of the best explains of why so many people my age (50s) hate new music. Thank goodness I was exposed to Ligeti, Bartok, Cage, Kraftwerk, Eno, and Laurie Anderson and other experimental and avant-garde music when I was very, very young. Otherwise, I'd be like a bunch of my peers who only listen to the classic rock station that plays the same 120 songs over and over again every day.
Excellent analysis, thanks Alice, I appreciate the deep dive! I would like to pose a question though, not so much to you, because you seem like an open minded woman and artist that can appreciate all different genres, like almost all of the excellent musicians I know, even if they specialize in one particular genre, like yourself.
Would you say that many of the people who watch your tutorials enjoy - or at least can appreciate - contemporary hip hop subgenres like UK/US drill or grime? Why is that? It should be noted that these subgenres are way more popular and new than electronic dance music in most of the world outside of Europe and North America. I have read some academic papers that lay out pretty heavy hypotheses about why most electronic dance music fans, do not like current popular forms of hiphop, especially within the mainstream electronic music scene in Europe. I'll leave it at that and hope it provokes some introspection... Thank again, that was a very cool video!
Brilliant, learnead a lot, it was so interesting and logical❤
Great video and very interesting research. Age definitely plays a part. Music tastes are indeed subjective. I do feel, however, that the notion of a 'homogenised' sound in modern pop music is due to near perfect production. Quantisation to a digitally rigid metronome and vocals auto-tuned in unnatural equal temperament for example. The human quality of imperfect performance is largely missing (think 'rushing' and 'dragging' from the film Whiplash).
Nowadays a producer with a MIDI keyboard / pad controller and laptop is all that's needed. Gone are the days when a band full of musicians, each with their own individually honed style, were giving recordings their own uniqueness and character. I believe the onset of illegal file sharing i.e Napster was the beginning of it all, but that's another discussion.
No wonder I ignore the algorithms when I’m mining for new music. I’m looking for a twisting rhythm and an unforgettable melody with inventive, poetic lyrics and the algorithms just feed the same old flavor of the day that’s been imitated to a predictable talentless death. I don’t think a lot of new music sounds alike because I’m old, I think that because that’s what the algorithm keeps trying to shove down my throat.
Thank you!Proud of you for putting great content
❤ Happy to make them!
absolutly interesting video and clear demostration.thx
You forgot the 3rd filter: time. A lot of music from the past is forgotten, and a some for good reason! Looking back to music from 2023 in 20 years from now will be very different from experiencing it in the present.
The music hasn't changed, there's just more of it. Music has become a commodity. Today, it's easier to explore different genres of music. The gate keepers have moved from the recording labels and radio to social media. I play trombone in two concert bands; one plays "traditional" music and the plays popular music from different eras. There definitely a difference between songs in chord structure and rhythms. As for electronic music it has come a long way since Wendy Carlos, Iso Tomita, and others. What once required tape machines, large synthesizers, and large mixing boards can be produced on a laptop. I comes down to mastering your instrument whether its an analog one or a laptop.
Wendy Carlos, Iso Tomita (Arranger) < Jean Michel Jarre (Composer)
Nostalgia influence a lot of people tastes, also "transmited nostalgia" (I don't know if there's a proper word for that, it's when younger people feel nostalgia of an era they didn't experience). As a teenage in the 90s, I remember it was all about the 70s, and we didn't realise that our era was a good one (even though it was what we see now as the golden decade for hip hop/techno/house/grunge/r&b...). Also this nostalgia infliuence how we look at past music, I remember clearly hating some comercial music from the 90s (like all those eurodance cheesy stuff), and now I enjoy some of those track, cause they remind me of some past moment, and also we tend to forget all the bad music, cause we listen again and again only the good one. But even with all the gatekeepers there was in the 60s/70s/80s, there's a lot of cheesy/bad track that made it to the radio/top100, but we forget about them.
And also the way we discover music has change a lot as you said in the video, now all the gatekeepers are kind of gone, and we got all the music available, and it's impossible to listen everything, so we tend to let the algorythme guide us. And the way it work on CZcams/Facebook/Spotify, it's giving you something it "think" you'll like, which means something similar to what you already listen. Therefore, the music it makes you discover sound like the music you already know, and it put you in that "bubble of similar sound" that makes you think everything sounds the same.
And because music making is now available to everyone, the creative people are drowned in a sea of people who just want success (so they follow the trend to please the algorythme), and even label tend to work that way now, working on single instead of trying to developp artist career on the long run like before (the "cash on single" thing was there before but it was just a side thing to try stuff and make money for artist development, now it's more about label development)
There is great music now days. You just have to work harder to find it among all the noise. Specially on mainstream charts
I feel that the variable that might not be accounted for is how conditioned people are to dissonant music, many boomers are used to harmonically consonant music (exccluding the ones that listen to free jazz or 12 tone music) where as a lot of the younger generation is used to EDM, Rap, and sub genres of metal, which utilizes dissonance as a musical device more often, so it becomes more normalized for them. And there is also something to be said for what musical qualities generations value more, which again is highly subjective and varies with taste and personality, and musical upbringing.
It comes down to feeling, vibe, emotion and what connects with you. I appreciate tons of modern music as well as classical and everything in between. Music is emotional, that’s what connects with people.
Very good analysis!
I think it also has to do with listeners and streaming services like Spotify. Because everything is so algorithmic and people don't want to listen to longer experiences in general. It may also have to do with our faster lifestyle these days that things are this way now too
There is definitely something about that as well.
GLOBALISATION and QUANTIFICATION have replaced TRUE CREATIVITY, same with movies, products, our value system.
For me it's also partly nostalgia feeling. I don't think all the songs I still enjoy to this day would have stuck in my mind if they were released today as much. Though, there are just good tracks out there, and still great music being made but, as you also pointed out, it's a lot more saturated.
Isn't acid house an exercise in timbre over a beat?
Awesome video again!!!
What a nice channel you have Alice
I think they mean music was more creative well thought out in the past compared to now. Don't think it's got anything to do with quality or how it's created more on keeping it simple and real for people to understand.
Just at 1:46 now but: I do think dynamic range is a good indication of dynamic range. Maybe not on a loop, but overall on the track, yes. A track without a breakdown, without quiet and loud parts , without silence to contrast with the loud parts looses points in expression to me. it can still be good a good track because everything else in it might be great, but if that same track were to be edited to have more contrast, aka dynamic range, it would be an improvement to me, even if specific elements of it were to be sound designed to have less dynamic range, as an aesthetic choice.
I hear Alice and see her point, but to me the paper is talking about overwall dynamic range in the whole track which makes sense, not just one element of it (drums as the example here).
Edit: I do agree with the tonal and harmonic content as Aloce said. they indeed don't make sense as mesure of quality.
Thank you for your detailed and candid videos and also for your effort to highlight this topic.
TLDR; If we generalize by separating music and music industry; I think, music made in the past (let's say pre-digital era) is neither better nor worse than today's music.
Just music made with the perspective, perception and possibilities of different times.
Music basically appeals to the emotions.
Scientific criteria can guide to a certain extent. Ultimately, music is expected to stir emotions, and today's scientific world and tools can neither measure nor make sense of it.
As long as possibility to profit out of music, there will always be gatekeepers, visible or invisible.
In the old days, productions with potential were "discovered" and backed by big money. Today, music can be created more economically by many producers of different skill levels.
So the production part is much easier now. But will those who used to make a lot of money from this business now divide the pie fairly? Of course not. These companies have kept up with the digital age. With the power they have, they (almost) decide who will come to the fore today. Just like before.
The biggest problem in the field of music right now is not knowing who is doing what.
Huge amounts of new songs are uploaded to online platforms every day and are waiting to be discovered.
On the other hand, project music productions are brought into the eyes of listeners / consumers through promotions, music lists and other opportunities.
When we evaluate the criticisms brought to today's music from this perspective, the conclusion we will reach is; yes, there are many medium and even low quality productions/artists who are promoted, appear in the media, and have a "star" added to their names. There is very tiny little chance of listening much higher quality productions potentially available in the other group.
That is why those who have seen the pre-digital age and do not like the music made today (which are imposed on them through television, radio and other channels) are right. This statement also includes that the music made today in general is no worse. Because there are millions of songs that exist, but no one has an objectively selected list.
As long as there is big money involved, these companies will favor their own people/projects.
Suggestion for another debate; will AI take over the music production?
You're a Moomins fan? I have a mug with Snuffkin on it :D
I buck the trend, I think - as I get older (I'm 58 in a few weeks), I seem to explore musical genres more and more. But of course, I'm a musician with a lot of experience in playing different genres live, musical theory training, and also the sort of ADHD type personality that's constantly seeking novelty, so I realise I'm probably not typical. Recently I've been enjoying microtonalism/xenharmony a lot. I believe that exposing yourself to new things is a good way to stave off the ageing process.
Is there as much good music around as there used to be? YES. Does *chart* music stimulate the intellect like it used to (i.e. is it sophisticated?) - NO. I think that's beyond doubt (if you disagree, I'd love to see you debate it with Rick Beato :) - but I reckon the point is that these days music is far less centralised, and charts don't really mean anything any more. It's up to us as individuals to seek out the good stuff - all the lovely little coloured blocks in your demonstration.
I remember thinking back into 2006 that electronic music was at its peak and the only genre worths listening to... It was so good for me. And altought i still enjoy a lot of songs from those year....music nowadays is beyond that in various aspects and im pleased to be able to listen to a lot of modern genres and sounds. And sure, theres more crap out there but there are tona of gems too.
Great Video and insights, Alice 🤍
Aww cheers Leonardo! ❤
It has a lot to do with when you are born! I was probably at a different stage of my life in 2006, so most music defining that era does next to nothing to me. This is of course due to personal reasons, not the music itself.
This is really cool, much love
Music has been pretty bad since mid-to-late 2010s but the tiktok made it even worse in 2020s. This is why I only listen to older music like from 1960s ~ early 2000s
Maybe there is no originality left in pop anymore? Everything has been done, I just think the fusion of genre sounds is the only thing left that is original.
Great video!
Subscribed!
When you was younger, I was WAY more restrictive with how I saw genres for example. "Oh, that's not trance, that's 'club' and it's not my genre! Get it out of here!" As I got older, I started to care less about genres, and simply asked "Do I like this song?" And I also became much less afraid to admit to liking music that a lot of people considered to be cheesy or "bad" in some way. So the whole "open-earedness" I would suggest requires further analysis. I think exposure to varied music actually promotes open-earedness. And that a more conscious approach to music, more knowledge about how it's made, the production, music theory etc. also change how we hear music and what we like/accept.
As an example: From time to time, videos pop up on youtube and elsewhere, with somebody performing on an instrument. The performer does something that to the untrained ear comes across as very impressive, but to those with more listening experience, more musical knowledge and more musical exposure, it comes across as a almost a cheap trick. If commented on, there will always be those with less musical understanding who will become furious, and make such strange claims as "I'd like to see you do better!" Which shows the obvious case that the person lacks understanding of music. Sure, I can't DO better, but I've listened to a lot of instrumentalists that can do it better, and even more who can do it just as well.
What's my point? That the general public often lack the basic understanding of music to judge the quality of music beyond "I like this" or "I don't like this." But that once their level of understanding increases, their taste in music also often changes. And for people who have a interest in music beyond just pressing play on the Spotify recommendations, their taste often widens and becomes more inclusive. While for those who DO mostly listen to the stuff that is trending, their tastes either never really changes or it narrows.
Heck, I well remember the episode when Spotify by accident set all publicly shared user playlists to private, and it created an outcry, because people claimed that suddenly Spotify had become useless. Suggesting that most users of Spotify lack enough personal taste in music to actually pick out music themselves.
Thanks Alice ❤️
Well, I am now very old but still interested in new music and genres. But no new genres appear at the moment. All actual genres are ages old. When I was young every some years new genres appeared and it was more interesting to discover them. But now music industry has no new ideas than make remixes of old stuff. It feels every second song is based on old songs.
Wow, saying that dynamic range has no impact in quality… ask some classical music mixing and mastering engineers to compress and reduce the dynamic range on a classical song and wait for their answer.
A well arranged, controlled dynamic range is CRUCIAL in how a certain piece of music breathes. Push the dynamic range of an acoustic song to be like an EDM song, and viceversa, and the final quality and the SENSATION -and therefore the perceived quality- that will give you will be heavily impacted
If music wasn't better in the past then why do they keep sampling the melodies like Blue (Da Ba Dee), disco, and why are albums like Future Nostalgia and artists like Adele some of the most successful mainstream artists? This is not a bash on all the indie artists that can't make a living, as they often make good music. It's the cookie cutter method that labels use with a select few producers and songwriters. Freddie, Michael and Madonna all had to fight for songwriting credits or were a large part of the process, where as today mainstream artists often aren't contributing much at all.
Very useful video, thanks.
I'll be 60 in June. I love the cxreativity of modern music. I've been a musician for 45 years now. Here's what I think. In retail markets, including the music market, 20% of the music makes the money for the entire industry. As you get older, you tend to listen to your favorites from your youth and don't think about the songs that were garbage. There were plenty. However, when it comes to new music, you hear more of what is coming out and focus more on the 80% because it is overwhelming.
I don't mind new music. It's either bad or good, as always has been in every era.
What really bothers me is when new artists totally rip off older artists and relies on the ignorance of the audience to credit themselves for the style/song/genre/etc.. The perfect example is Owl City with Fireflies. Nobody knew Postal Service, and still nobody knows them, and Owl City never admitted he took all his inspiration from them, and I have no doubt he was just trying to copy them, which is ok, many great acts started copying their idols, but they never denied it. That's just cringe. The probability of getting the exact same sound unintentionally is just astronomical, specially when you are a declared fan of one of the projects (Death Cab for Cutie) of the band you're ripping off.
The quality of the song is irrelevant.
And I know people will start, "Actually, they are nothing like each other", but just nah, Fireflies is a Postal Service song. Period.
-Less budget.
-Less actual musicians working because music makes less money.
-Less talent required for “singers”.
-Many producers working with plenty of artists using computers and sending ideas. Not being present during the creation itself.
-Algorhythms giving space to viral crap and 5 or 6 stars monopolizing streaming platforms through curated playlists.
- songs being 2:39 and not having BRIDGE? keychanges? Adlibs? Sorry but I grew up in the 90s being a fan of DEPECHE MODE, MICHAEL JACKSON, MADONNA… they offer quality, personality, talked about real issues… I like plenty of new artists (Rina, Mnek, lots of techno and electronic of course, also rock, even classical music and more) current mainstream is crap, very few quality songs or acts achieve success in my opinion.
Charli xcx, carolina polacheck, the first kim petras eras, or mnek are what current music could be like but people only like regeton/trap/boring ballads
Thank you
I'm sorry to say this, but I think a big problem is autotune. Yes it's nice that many people can now express themselves this way, but autotune has the effect of making many voices just sound the same. Nowadays it's just not necessary to have a grandiose unique voice. I think we should get away from autotune again. I am a child of the modern times I was born in 1994 and I listen to much more "modern" music. But I know exactly what older people mean when they say everything sounds the same. I can understand them. By the way, this statement does not refer to electronic music genres, such as House or Drum and Bass, etc.. There, your theory certainly applies. The statements refer to the "mainstream" There are always the same chords, keys, BPM, even lyrics applied. You can put many of these beats on top of each other and they would all work together. But the biggest problem is still autotune. The last song that was really great and unique in the mainstream was Levitating by Dua Lipa.
Lol did you dismiss dynamic range argument because of drum loop? Make no sense. Obviously they were refering to whole songs.
amazing content
Any advice on my music?
Pretty sure when they said dynamic range was a measure of quality, they weren't talking about wildly varying dynamics between a 4 second drum loop, but rather, throughout an entire piece of music, which is a very valid way of measuring quality - a song is a lot more interesting if the dynamics aren't the same throughout the piece. Pretty sure you're smart enough to know that.
"Copy and paste "generation . I began with an empty cubase. 20 years and people still remember my songs. Being original is the best trick
more reliance on tech and less from imagination or pure skill? i.e. people like me with no musical training can make tunes that sound ok. but if someone like queen sat down to do it i bet it would sound amazing.
Haven't watched the video yet but I feel like music is at a great place as it is now
Everything you said in this video is more than 100% true. The most supported claims ever. All explained. BUT I still miss something. I ended here since I was listening over 500 songs that were top songs since 1980 until today, by months. I was just wanted to check myself if I am just another "boy from 80's" and I just prefer "my youth music" and ignore other? I proved to myself I do not. I like good music. Music that is well defined (listener can figure out what was artist's intention), it have beginning and destination (it is some kind of progress, development, peak, conclusion, ...) and is interesting (variations, development, excitement, pleasant to hear,...). As you perfectly shown, complexity of sound is not the key. Modern music is rather (far) more complex than old music. Most modern cover version are more complex than originals. I mostly prefer originals despite being dry, thin, non-perfect, because often has more soul. Original emotion of original artist are lost in modern version. In most cases audience punish that and cover has limited gain. Sometimes cover make new purpose or emotion and is again successful. Example "Lambada". Original Los "Kjarkas - Llorando se fué" is sad love song with simple natural instruments. Than Kaoma put completely different emotion into it: positive, happy life. Producer make it much more spiced up and complex, with perfected performance and good media/video support, the song was a international hit. Anyone who will ever try to recreate Lambada is condemned to failure, even Kjarkas itself. Really? Unless the remake is even more perfected, media supported, with even more perfect audio/video production, not one but two already established artist and over the roof complex sound, and 20 years later, song can be re-sold again with yet another incarnation and different emotion: this time "Jennifer Lopez - On The Floor ft. Pitbull" count on people hungry of good music after slow new milenium start. Song is basically a "workout/fitness music" with Lambada samples to polish the ears and connect emotions. Powerful motivation to pull forward. Nothing in common with any previous versions. Also my next (and main) observations of music will emerge from this example. The "On the floor" song was received good in my opinion because: it respects original, and give new version a different, but equally strong emotion. It motivates differently without listener had to decide between the two. Than song have motion. I can dance on it, work out on it, drive by it, cycle, type this comment. It does not push-hold my emotion as SO MANY modern songs does. Even next incarnation does this: "A1 x J1, Tion Wayne - Night Away (Dance)" would be better without sample of "On the floor". But this "sampling" of the same ... "laaa, la la la la" just annoys me because it pushes me from rap into dance motion, but than it's end...
... back to 500 songs from 1980 to 2022: I just listened the top chart songs, so that gatekeepers are past those. What came to charts. It is true that I generally like more songs from 80-es, that can be the fact It was "my music", I was young and I remember my emotions from that innocent time. But I found (contrary to my believe) that I equally like modern songs, just for a different reason and I would be hard pressed if had to decide and pick only one decade of music. There is one decade I have far less songs that I like. 2000-2010. I was also listening music from 1900 plus. I found repeating pattern that can be roughly seen ever since until today. Each new decade is a new start and the middle of decade is the richest of variety and quality of music (by quality I mean before mentioned qualities). As decade goes to an end music become more and more exhausted leftovers from that decade fashion; just like the car industry: initial version of a model is plain, serious than they add features, facelifts and finally discounts on a pimp-up final version of out-going model before new come to replace it. Some songs can be early birds for new decade even before, but mostly year with xxx2 or xxx3 is the real deal, until the xxx6, than less and less fresh ideas. And that pattern more or les repeats over and over. But there is a difference when millenium came and 2005 should emerge best of decade like "The Final Countdown" was for 1986 or "ace of Base", "Rednex", "Cardigans", were pulling 90-es further. But since 2000-2010 music is kinda clueless, no direction, caged, it does not move, it stops, it is hard overwhelming sounds, full of shouting from the top of lungs, screaming, rumbling, ... like a ranting of caged animal that want to be freed and even when ties are torn and everything is smashed there is no clue where to go. Truly depressing and strained music, like so late Wagner's operas or some Van Gogh paintings. But even from this 00's era there is a bunch of songs I love. It is just interesting how much "rumble" songs emerged.
Next a song list ...
Hits from 2000-2010 by months and my comment. part 1/2
*****
*Ricky Martin : She bangs -> it moves
*Destiny's Child : Independent woman -> it goes, but with some stammer
*Eminem : Stan -> Dido helps, but Eminem is full of doubt himself and song barelly rolling
*JLo : Love don't cost a thing - > slow thumbling rhythm, so 00's
*Shaggy : It wasn't me -> good package, it moves
*Crazy town : Butterfly -> it gave hope that 00's will not be only boring rant
*Shaggy : Angel -> OK ...
*Destiny's Child : Survivor -> depressing like storm
*Aguilera : Lady marmelade -> same crap, better aranged
*Destiny's Child : Bootilicious -> even more chaotic mess
*Alicia Keys : Falling -> heart stopping slow, but it goes
*Kylie Minogue : Cant get out ... -> She does not care. Pumping full speed. Maybe down there are still in 90's and her music is not yet depressed like this year's "Padam" (which in my language means "falling", which she does in music).
*Mary J Blidge: Family affair - than ruins the tempo again, but at least it moves
*jr. Iglesias made it's HERO -> which is slow, but song holds its own even today.
*Nickelback "reminded us" that 00's have no clue what genre to support at the top
*Linkin park thought it is "The end" -> it was the end of old millenium.
*Pink started their Party -> still holds today after 21 years!
*Shakira said "whatever" and moved on
*Celine Dion realised new A NEW DAY had come
*Ashanty was playing "Foolish" -> radio program filler, but it made to the top?!
*Eminem really sorted out his crap to the summer of 2002 with his "WITHOUT ME" -> it moves like a bullet train and song still holds today!
*Venessa Carlton had her "100 miles" -> a shopping mall song
*Nelly had HOT IN HERE -> gym song
*Avril Lavigne finally realised that 00's are so "COMPLICATED" -> boring depressing song
*NELLY & KELLY had their DILEMMA -> light song that does not touch much but does not offend either
*Eminem again "LOST HIMSELF" but at least song is moving, despite under heawy load, and have the message
*J.Lo remembered when she was still JENNY FROM THE BLOCK -> 1st song that might show new direction of 00's light, airy, fun and moves
*OH, than Timberlake contaminated whole decade with his "destructive heart stopping songs", like "CRY ME A RIVER"
*Christina Aguilera won charts with another depresseed song "BEAUTIFUL"
*I never expected I will like a song from a "50 cent" but "IN DA CLUB" was above other still standing, fate seeking songs, it moves two steps further and one back, but it moves at least. A drunk depressed divorced one can kinda enjoy his last drink with this song since the beat of this song is for those worn out party people that operate only at 1/2 speed (drunk).
*Coldplay came from another planet with "CLOCKS" -> they move with this one, but they do not know where. Like a drunk man woken up next morning on unknown place.
*Evanescence raged that someone must "BRING THEM TO LIFE" -> nothing special in different package
*And than Sean Paul "GET us very BUSY" with his perfect example how every genry can produce a music thta moves, inspires, have emotion ... it is workout music, but it worked in the clubs (I was DJ at the time). Still holds today.
*Beyonce in JayZ give impression that 00's will take off finally with CRAZY IN LOVE, that really goes, but than
*50 Cent put out his "21 QUESTIONS" and depressed the hell out of me.
*The Black Eyed Peas asked themselves "WHERE IS THE LOVE" in a kinda easy song, no where near as "pumping" as I would love.:)
*Outcast further moved in right direction with "HEY YA!" but barely.
*BRITNEY asked MADONNA for a favor as she was "AGAINST THE MUSIC" -> result is a dull workout song I don't remember from that times at all
*NO DOUBT was with the song "IT'S MY LIFE" that it moves greatly, but it is still a bit nervous, tense and angry; liberating from ties.
*Black Eyed Peas found their way and made us "SHUT OP" -> song that goes well (It flows) and was popular very long.
*EVANESCENCE put another "IMMORTAL" desperate screaming search for light out loud. Trashing loud sound.
* BRITNEY did not need another helf from Madonna and released her "TOXIC" new song. I can't blame nothing here. It flows it goes it is nice song even in 2023.
*USHER, LIL JOHN and LUDACRIS made perfect song for a game "Need for speed Underground" YEAH! -> slow, but flows. Like a Mississippi.
*Maroon 5 screamed their lungs out to express "THAT LOVE", but other than that, song is just OK. I forgotten about it.
*O-ZONE gave me (as DJ) some hope that middle of 00's will finally gave us smashing dance hits that are flowing and going like 2-unlimited, La Bouche, Corona, did. DRAGOSTEA DIN TEI is one of best 00's song that still holds it's own.
*HOOBASTANK : THE REASON -> WTF is this whining about?
*AVRIL LAVIGNE : MY HAPPY ENDING -> another shouting over lound uproar crouded place; same as noise
*Maroon 5 with a bit better "SHE WILL BE LOVED", but nothing more than forgetable song
*USHER was warming his voice up with ALICIA KEYS in their's "MY BOO" -> a note scale trying out on some random beats, like a practice recorded
*SNOOP DOGG "DROPPED IT LIKE IT's HOT" -> and we dropped jaws too; boring rhumble
*DESTINY's CHILD was "LOOSING THEIR BREATH" -> another booring "where are we going" song.
*GREEN DAY was tyring our days with lound overwhelming "BOULEVARD OF BROKEN DREAMS"
*MARIO asked "TO LET HIM LOVE ME" -> but I can't love that crying whining
*50 Cent could not make another hit. CANDY SHOP is just sweet "let's try to sell leftovers" attempt
*GORILLAZ : FELL GOOD INC -> OK ... but? Random.
*GWEN STEFANI was HOLLABACK GIRL -> another workout music
*DANIEL POWTER had a BAD DAY -> but song is not that bad, despite shouting into mic
*MARIA CAREY thought THGEY BELONG TOGETHER in a thumbling/shouting session
*JAMES BLUNT repeating himself "HOW BEAUTIFULL SHE IS" like mad man.
*BUSTY RHYMES had DON'T CHA -> was that song relased? I don't remember not care. At least kinda flows.
*Black Eyed Peas made their "HUMPS" a song that does not flows. It sticks and holds. Workout music, but
*MADONNA "HUNG UP" with Benny Andersson and asked him "gimme gimme gimme" until he let her use ABBA's smash hit from 1979 under her new lyrics. Song OF COURSE flows and moves and have emotions! Nothning much to do with Madonna! But at least december 2005 was a bit more chearful. I was not listening 80'es for once. LOL.
*EMINEM started 2006 with WHEN HE IS GONE" -> slow slim shade of himself
*BEYONCE was CHEKIN' ON IT while we were sleeping on the dance floors or just playing 80's
*SEAN PAUL was much better with his repackaging of leftovers with TEMPERATURE than 50 cent. At least he used exactly the same formula. A more tiny song, but it still flows. If nothing better ...
*BLACK EYES PEAS this time just "PUMPED IT" to the max and made one of the best flowing, exciting, interesting, moving, emotional energetic song of this millenium. Period.
*RIHANNA called SOS from a good old Nokia phone, but nothing helped not forget the song soon
*SHAKIRA told us that her "HIPS DON'T LIE" -> OK soing that can be played today and people will not run away.
*GNARLS BARKLEY told us he is CRAZY, but song is OKeyish.
*NELLY FURTADO had been PROMISCUOUS ... so what who cares
*SNOOP DOGG opened "BUTTONS" to some random Pussycat Dolls. So what, again.
*TIMBERLAKE (what a name) had told us he have SEXYBACK -> he might but his songs are most depressing, for when one decides to cut his veins on wrist and is watching how his life is pooring out
*EMINEM -> "SMACK THAT" right as you said. Smack it gone.
*BEYONCE shown she is NOT "IRREPLACEABLE" but forgetable
*NELLY FURTADO "SAID IT RIGHT" -> ok shouting song ... bearable.
*Gwen Stefany had her "SWEET ESCAPE" but I hoped we could escape that depressing music decade.
*FERGIE & LUDACRIS felt "GLAMOROUS" but we did not. Another "talking on rhythm" boring song
*AVRIL LAVINGE had her "GIRLFRIEND" -> shouting smashing raging song. Meh.
Hits from 2000-2010 by months and my comment. part 2/2
***
*BEYONCE did a bit better with BEAUTIFUL LIAR" -> slow, thumbling, workout, but still worse than
*RIHANNA with UMBRELLA" that actually have some hints of a song that have a bow, start and finish. Not just meaningless pumping like weigh lifting as most of songs of 00's. Weigh lifting and fitness device pumping is biggest waste of energyx on planet. All those muscles could be trained with any real work, like food growing. And as meaniong full and selfish this millenials are this kindof music comes ahead. Meaningless, pumping, shouting, random sounds, beats, noises, no clue where they are going, all about themselves and their BIG problems ... nothing to give listener. Opposite: Listened had to give the artist. I hate that era, despite some of the best sdongs of all time were alse created then.
*FERGIE and PLAIN white came out with "BIG GIRLS DON'T CRY" (a crying shouting song) and "HEY THERE DELILAH" ( a simple "letter-to-her-girlriend-reading-along-guitar" song. Meh for both.
*KAYNE WEST would like to grow STRONGER and he tries to smash everything with his song
*TIMBALAND did "APOLOGIZE" for his blunt song
*ALICIA KEYS shouting how "NO ONE" cares gor her song that is sole ranting over her again, no flow in there
*BRITNEY SPEARS asked for more freedom in her "GIMME MORE" -> I fell for her, but song is blunt
*FLORIDA put some "LOW" bass workout music out, for instance a ZUMBA fitness, to help with T-PAIN (in the back).
*RIHANNA woke up in early 2008 asking that we "DON'T STOP THE MUSIC" ... at least it goes. Perfect ZUMBA song.
*LEONA LEWIS had her "LOVE BLEEDING" -> dear leone where sou you think I can let this music role? Dance club? Radio? House party? Oh YES! It is perfect song for rainy sathurday and house keeping, ironing, vacuuming... this chorus sound exactly like "kkep cleaning, keep keep clening love". A motivational song. To beat our depression out with greater depression of this song.
*MARIAH CAREY asked to "TOUCH HER BODY" which usually means her voice career is over
*even MADONNA can't fix TIMBERLAKE'S songs, like "4 MINUTES"
*RIHANNA : TAKE A BOW ... and fell a sleep.
*COLDPLAY : VIVA LA VIDA ... oh yes, at least ONE good song per freaking year in this 00's. Still hold today.
*KATY PERRY had "KISSED A GIRL" in august 2008 and she had to shout that out loud with big drum annoucing the message. Who cares Katy. No one plays you a long time.
*Nothing can "DISTURBIA" the RIHANNA to not make another "ho cares" song.
*P!NK was angry again and shouting her SO WHAT in at least more flowing manner that is digestible.
*BEYONCE if "IF I WERE A BOY" would be what?? A more fluid song maybe?
*BRITNEY made her smashing fast rhumble called WOMANIZER. Ok, but...
*It seems LADY GAGA is one rare performer that does not care much of a trends, fork out little but mostly all are well done songs. JUST DANCE is nothing special today, but for 00's decade it is well above average of fluid, moving, touching song.
*BEYONCE made a special song for a SINGLE LADIES and song actually executed this SOLE / SINGLE purpose quite well. I had to role it plenty of times on weddings. I can't see much more point of the song out from weddings. It sounds wery weird on plain radio broadcast along other "ordinary" songs. It is not dance hit, not seated listening song ,... it's hard to mix with anything. It's like Cocker's "You Can Leave Your Hat On" - one purpose song. At least it HAS purpose. And we are slowly say goodbye to sad and depressed, egocentric, purpose seeking 00's. Few earyl birds are
* FLORIDA : RIGHT AROUND -> well flowing song that can be workout music, garage music, house keeping music or just good dance hit that can be mixed quiote good next hit of 2009
*POKER FACE, one of the best 00's and LADY's song. As I said Gaga does not care hwere she is. Her song will be near hit every time. I bet someday, if she will not die early, will be more remebered than Madonna. Frankly, who remembers Julio Iglesias and are younger than 60 years? Time will tell the truth. Elvis can be played today on a regular radio program anytime of day, Abba, Queen as well, but not the Beatles or Michael Jackson.
*BLACK EYED PEAS made their rememberance how we seen our 2008 in the song "BOOM BOOM BOOM", but nothing more than good bass drum was provided. A empty song that faded s quickly as it came. We say 2009 as well :)
*BEYONCE shouted out from her lungs HALO, but no one listeneed the next month as the top song was another
*BLACK EYED PEAS, totally different song from before, I GOTTA FEELING, which only shown how clueless this 00's era is. Maybe not the artists/performerms but the audience who vote for charts. But that goes hand in hand. Radios try to iprepress, audience react, performers to nail next hit. It was rounds of driving around roundabout seeking the right exit.
*TAYLOR SWIFT with another screaming story how "HE BELONGS TO HER"
*this time SHAKIRA trained her voice weith solfedjo scale in "SHE WOLF"
*MILEY CYRUS drawled some attention to her with screaming song "PARTY IN THE USA", long to go to her best
*BLACK EYED PEAS again?? Ok, this time "MEET ME HALFWAY" at least going somewhere and one can vacuum clean along without having hartbeat stopped. Are we out from the depressing 00's yet?
*ALICIA KEYS AND JAYZ made that "EMPIRE STATE OF MIND" which is nothing wrong, but nothing inspiring, too. The most interesting is word play in the title. No, we are still in 00's to the last day of 2009.
2010 starting with BAD ROMANCE and after the 2010 more and more songs are free to go, have purpose, meaning, good flowing, moving, are interesting and will bear trial of time much better than forgetable 00's (appart from few expceptiones that are one of the best songs of all time. Which is interesting. As you said in the video, nowadays there is no gatekeepers as unce were. But it seems the abundance of production is new gate keeper. 00's flown up abundance of "WTF" songs that were all over the place and are long forgotten by now. But at the same time, those songs that were above that flood of depression are so far above that are one of the best songs ever. 00's it seems are decade of forging for new millenium. A lot of trials and errors. One can clearly say that a song is from 80's, 70's, DISCO, 90's, TECHNO, ... even from 2010-2020 it is already quite established style and it is hard to miss where the song fits. But for 00's there is absolutelly no style. It's all over the place and nowhere at the same time. And now listening hits of 2010-2020 I can see many hits that I do like mostly all in a row per months, takes some hints from dead as road kill 00's. Example is "WRECKING BALL", "ALL ABOUT THAT BASE", "BLANKS SPACE", "UPTOWN FUNKS" goes way back. "LOVE ME LIKE YOU DO", "SEE YOU AGAIN", ... but 99% of songs from 2010+ are clearly GOING and flows nicelly. OK "ADELE" is still screaming and crying :) But I even like JUSTIN TIMBERLAKE's song for the first time in my life!! 2016's "CAN'T STOP TRHE FEELING". The 2010 was really a barrier that was ruined like a Berlin wall and music now flows.
I hope I made someone's day.
19925 characters.
Shit. I'm 40! 😐 (On the other hand, I am fiddling daily with music and I do think I have gained depth emotionally, and I hear more difference than before).
You miss the point here to be honest on a few subjects. For example. Comparing dynamic range by comparing a few drum loops is not the way to go. Dynamic range is often used when talking about compression of moderns songs, especially starting from the 90's, to make them radio/cd fit. Compare any 70 vinyl record with modern digital tracks and youll hear the differemce big time. This is not for everyone because nlwadays people are used to pitchperfect quantized songs, but for the audiofile it feels like the humans are slowly removed from the art. This perfection creates an uncanny feeling which doesnt feel like art but a product.
and the second one is... NOISE xDDD u got me there
As always writing a comment to support the channel
You are the best!
To me, modern pop is just a whole bunch of aspects of songwriting and production put together that I personally don't enjoy, to the point where I find the combination distressing to listen to and immediately want to leave the area playing said music. It seems to heighten anxiety for me. I don't want to make broad judgements about it that might prevent others enjoying it, I just have a visceral reaction to it, like a psychological allergy
Confidence shines through from all your argumentation, but the conclusions are not so obvious at all. Since we are already flipping arguments:
1. In experimenting with drum loops, I much prefer the first one, because it is not as compressed as the others and thus sounds not only more natural but also conveys energy in a more expressive way. Just because many people choose the other options doesn't mean the other loops are better, just that the respondents have a warped taste. Measuring dynamics over the years, is not as meaningless as it seems. One of the main features of modern music is over-compression, which kills one of the key sources of nuance in music - the handling of loudness. Of course, we can always find exceptions to the rule, but in general I agree with the authors of the study - a statistical decrease in dynamics across the spectrum of songs, means a decrease in quality.
2. Access to sound libraries does not lead to sound diversity at all, rather to unification. The whole Internet is buzzing with discussions on how to copy this or that sound into your song, which library or synthesizer it comes from. It was the lack of ready-made solutions that forced artists to be constantly creative and made each artist sound different.
3. Your claim that a piece can be good, regardless of its harmonic complexity, is apparently true but wrong in this particular context. This is because we are not talking about a single piece of music, but an entire genre. One 150-pound citizen is not a problem - perhaps he has other advantages that compensate for his unhealthy ballistics. The entire obese population is a problem and an undesirable phenomenon.
4. Identifying dissonant chords as "unpleasant" is not evidence of better hearing or perception, just evidence of a lack of sophistication. As people get older, they learn to see the value in seemingly unpleasant things. Appreciate the taste of certain alcohols or foods. Appreciate the qualities of rough fabrics, etc. I, for one, am in my forties and no longer perceive chords in terms of pleasant-unpleasant at all, but in terms of interesting-boring. The dissonant ones are often the most delicious. Let's also remember that in the old days only an octave and a pure fifth were perceived as consonances. The perception of dissonance has been changing throughout human history, and the trend is toward a gradual familiarization with dissonance.
5. Older people complaining about monotony in modern popular music are right. There are fewer dynamics, poorer harmony, less experimental creativity, conservativeness, repetitiveness, etc. Older people hear well enough and this patronizing "it's not their fault" is just insulting. Of course, the phenomenon of nostalgia among older listeners and less openness to new trends is a fact, but the subject of discussion is not whether older people like new music, but whether music is objectively better or worse.
6. The example with blocks has one disadvantage. In this example, 90% of the blocks should be black. So it was then and so it is today. Only in the past, the filters cut them out quite effectively, and today they end up in public. Older people do not focus on black blocks, but are flooded with them. There is also the problem of the tastes of an audience who, fed for years with deteriorating content, has now almost lost its taste and cannot distinguish the colours of the blocks.
I am optimistic about the further development of music. I think that valuable things will increasingly be picked up on the internet and this will gradually lead to a restoration of the trend towards more valuable and uncompromising creativity. However, this does not change the fact that we either are, or at least have been in a crisis for the last few years, when it comes to the quality of popular music.
interesting, thanks
My thoughts
I think modern mainstream music is terrible. Cause if you go more “underground” there still is a lot of good music out there.
50 year-old dude here. This video explains why all of my same aged non-musician friends can't get into Vulfpeck, Polyphia, or Plini. Meanwhile, I think they are revolutionary and refreshing. I wonder if musicians have a natural propensity to preserve open-eardness.
I think radio has gotten worse for sure. And that certain qualities of music have fallen out of style. I don't really think older music all better, but I can definitely see that certain things have been lost.
Maybe consider music as stand alone not dependent on listener subjectivity. Meaning focus on "pop" music alone and its evolution as far as musical objectivity is concerned. There has existed a relationship between technology and musicians going back generously 50 years. The further back in time you go the relationship tilts toward the musician and as time progresses the pendulum swings over to the technology side of things. The former I feel addresses the considerable drop in musicality in recent times because technology is no longer submissive to the musician rather technology in many aspects have made it possible so that the non musician can make noise ;)
Thank you for the video. Anyway, I think that you are not considering fundamental points against your arguments. Harmony and chord progressions are palpably not as complex as before. Electronic music, and mainly techno, use to choose triads, and house music 7th minors. And that’s all. I am very interested in electronic music and pop. But the argument I am pointing out is kind of evident
In a nutshell, music is still awesome, but as always the major labels have slowly found a way to buy the playlists/charts in the current system, so there's just more bad music in your face.
If you spend the time looking there is amazing art out there.
I'm young and I think that modern music is generally bad. It's very hard to find something interesting now. In the radio or TV you can listen to mostly generic songs, all sounding so bad and so similar to each other that man can be sick of this. And you have to be really bored to have time to dig fore some good modern pieces.
In the past people had to be able play and sing well to create music. It used to be made using live instruments sounding different, sing with real vocal, not always perfect, but this made this music great! Every band, every singer had their own character and differed more or less from each other. And now, since there are drum machines, auto-tune, computers, over-use of compression, talent is not nessesary anymore. Most music today have no individuality, no humanity, it have no soul, like it's made by robots using the same samples, the same beat, the same sequences, the same annoying robotic vocal. Music today is devoid of character.
Very simplistic. Don't get a scientist analysing the arts. No awareness of the way that music arises in contexts of relative inspiration, or of the obvious fact that when you are a musician growing up in a musically saturated environment (including all the music from the past) that this often creates a sense that "everything's been done before" and tends to result in slavish fetishism of a particular sound, or creating novelty for novelty's sake. Neither of which are inspiring cultures. And yes, I know, most people become more narrow in their taste as they get older, closed-minded, and worshipping the songs of their youth, but could some of this narrowing in certain instances be due to the development of taste? Stick to technical analysis of music please, your videos on that are helpful
The reason the music from the 60s, 70s and 80s (and 90s and early 2000s electronica) was so good was because it came out of dynamic and inspiring cultures. That's the dynamics I'm talking about!
I find the best combination is the soulful singer and the synth geek! Think Alison Moyet and Vince Clark, Annie Lennox and Dave Stewart... In my opinion, modern EDM lacks complete vocal performances.
I don't believe in the "open-earedness" hypothesis - you either retain a lifelong passion for music, or you don't. Most people simply get bored of seeking new music after a while, but claim it's because they're "too old"
Boomers think old music is better because they mainly remember the hits. There was a lot of utter crap that has just been forgotten about, and current music hasn't had the time to filter the 'bad' stuff out from our collective memory yet. There's also cultural influence to consider e.g. the biggest-selling song of 1969 was 'Sugar Sugar' by The Archies but that was also the year Led Zeppelin got big.
Your video correctly dismantles the method used by that paper to reach its conclusions. But the conclusions remain valid, for different reasons.
Firstly, you are right that a lot of good music is being made today. More so than ever, for sure. However, we are not talking about that here, we are talking about the music that becomes popular.
Super produced pop garbage that relies on the same 4 chords over and over and over and over. A lot of music in the past could have complex, unusual harmonies, weird chord and tempo changes, and still make it to the top 10. Today that is an absolute rarity. Instead, 6 of ten songs are reggaeton garbage, sang by people who without autotune could not sing happy birthday, and with lyrics that cannot go further than "culo culo mami" to save their lives. Garbage music for tiktok.
Look at any of the analyses of top 10 charts by Rick Beato and listen to his detailed and expert considerations on each track, and you will understand what I mean.
That's easy to answer it was and is cheaper for them to mass produce. Talent took the backseat
But I strongly agree and can prove it easy
Neverending story.
Even Aristotle (Ancient Greece) warns young people against the abuse of "fashionable" musical modes (the Phrygian mode was considered canonical), which set the listeners in an ecstatic, enthusiastic mood.
I think I can add another, the 4th point. Last few decades people less and less listen to music. It's just a background for else activities, like chatting, studying, working, sleeping, chilling, running, etc. That's why there is a high demand for simple melodies. Complex music can distract people.
Great example of how statistics can be deceiving. Someone said that there are three types of increasingly worse lies: Lies, damn lies and statistics.