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Jim Williams Tek 465B Fix v3
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- čas přidán 28. 01. 2009
- Linear Technology's Jim Williams repairs Tom Osborne's Tektronix 465B oscilloscope after discussing the Minuteman ICBM guidance computer mounted as artwork on his living room wall.
@robertgscott1949: Jim Williams published a long series of articles on analog design starting in the 1970s. He often published in EDN magazine, sometimes in other magazines. He loved to restore old things, particularly old Tek scopes. He passed away last year. He was my friend.
Thank you so much for this wonderful video. I tried to power up my much loved 465B for first time this year and found it completely dead, so sad and impossible to find anybody with the skills to fix it - then found your video. Checked out same capacitor as Jim and found it short circuit, replace and all is well. I am sorry to read that Jim passed away but so very grateful for the legacy that he left in this video.
mbb150x Happy to hear that Jim helped you, even though he's now gone. Your comment is my inspiration for today.
--Steve
"poke around in the inventory"
This man was amazing. May he rest in peace.
a family of mice could have made a home in that "inventory" LOL.
The legendary Jim Williams. Analog electronics is quite difficult and very few people mastered it like Jim Williams, Bob Pease, Bob Widlar et. al. These guys did things without the help of today's powerful simulation tools. RIP Jim...respects.
A dip tantalum in a Tek scope caught fire in our lab one day. The scope was customarily left on 24/7, and was right against wood joists. It ignited a nylon card guide, and would have subsequently burned the place down if someone wasn't there to notice. The take-away is: Don't leave equipment on when there's no one around. The other take-away is: Be wary that these types of tantalums have a very low ESR, and are prone to shorting with rapid voltage transients. These days, tantalum polymer types may be a better choice.
I regret not learning of Jim Williams except recently. By all accounts he looked like a top guy. I've got a Tek 468 myself, bought it a few years back and I absolutely love it.
I went into electronics because I was reading Jim App Notes since I was 13 years old. It was too expensive to purchase component so everything was done in my mind. One day I met Jim in Paris. Was a great day.
A Great Contributor To Electronics,,I'm upset about Jim's Passing...It's always a Honor To watch His Videos!!! By the way He repairs the 465 We should rename him Jim " Mr.Tektronix " Williams. His Troubleshooting and engineering skills ceases to amaze me!!!( I'm a Electronic Engineering Technologist and Technician by trade) Thank You Jim.
I love his "inventory!" Priceless. And analog Tek scopes can't be beat.
I will always remember Jim for the great work he accomplished in educating young analog design engineers. His work belongs to the best out there. The world lost a great engineer and this makes me quite sad. Thankfully Jim left us with a great heritage.
Excellent presentation and most useful information. I have been going through my collection of old Tektronix and Telequipment CRO's. I powered up the 465B after PA Test for earth continuity, etc. I ran it from a 200W isolation xformer via a 100W filament bulb. It lit the bulb to about 1/2 power and so was drawing way too much current.
You have given me a valuable insight into where best to look; I was unaware the instrument used tants, I shall start with replacing these with new elects., and then work from there.
if i had had a bit of help fromkim Williams, I'd still have my 1979 465B, today...
BTW- i once had a boss who said, looking at my work Ares:"a messy desk is a sign of messy thinking.."...but, his desk was pristine, and i don't think that he ever had a creative thought...makes me proud to have had a "Jim Williams" style workspace, and some patents, and about 3 billion people had my work "illuminating" their lives...(worldwide R&D responsibility for LED's and driver electronics for a well-known mobile phone company...)
great kind of video, with two names so well-known to me..
and Tom Osborne's microcomputer books were the beginning of my consulting business...even met my very first customer at one of his presentations, so, thanks to him on several levels!
Tom Osborne unfortunately did not write microcomputer books. That was Adam Osborne. He's the guy who founded Osborne Computer and made the idea of software application bundling a reality. I met him once as well.
We lost massive talent when we lost Jim Williams and Bob Pease. Those two were in a league by themselves.
Back then a bachelor's degree actually meant something. Now days its just "hook the arduino and make a sketch (why do they call it a sketch?)" and plug an led into a bread board and your labeled a genius for making a little light blink. Don't get me wrong, arduino has its place in prototyping and quickly hacking data buses in an experimental environment, but if you want to learn then you need to start with the basics or else you will become spoiled with the easy stuff like microcontrollers.
making a light blink could be good, depends on how you did it.
But we can honor their legacy by going on where they left us, we can stand on the shoulders of giants.
What a legend! RIP Mr. Williams. Thankyou, Steven, for making this available.
I love the workbench.
Jim Williams was and still is an Incredible Individual with Only Engineers and Engineering Technologists fully understanding his Achievements!! The application sheets he developed easily reaches the MENSA Level!!! Jim was truly an Uber Engineer!!!
That's great! I am glad the video helped you restore another Tek 465. I'm sure Jim's smiling down on you. He loved to see any Tek scope put back into use.
I am so sorry to hear that, as it was nice to see our generation working with and appreciating equipment from this era. Apologies if I assume too much, but there are so many sites where they talk of 80's & 90's equipment as vintage. Tektronix scopes going back earlier like 545 & 555 were standards.
The genius in action , love his inventory search . Electronics is a colder place without him .
@321reh I am sorry that you can't appreciate the loss of such a great Engineer!!! Just by reading some of his application notes I can see I have about 1 / 10,000 the Electronic Knowledge that Jim possesses, My Father told me once to always respect someone who is wiser in his ways ,,,,Jim is such the Man!!! Jim has forgot more about Electronics than You and I combined,,,,I rest my case, The Video was enjoyable to Watch,
Beautiful portrait of a thoughtful engineer.
Wow, having Jim fix your 465 would almost be like "Jesus Built My Hotrod." ;)
Jesus only walked on water, Jim designed analog circuits my friend.
Thank you for sharing Wonderful video. What a talented man Mr Jim Williams
Your workbench full of parts looks like my entire house. Great video.
The man knows his stuff; marvelous recall of the MinuteMan I technology. 5/5
Such a great man. Such a loss...
Jim had some serious thermal padding on those fingers! That copper braid gets hot as hell cleaning out a ground connected hole like that. Wow
7:21 Jim probably has heat proof hands! :P Jokes apart this man is GOD!
There's a picture of this same lab in one of Jim's books, it's in a section where he gives tips on how to build your own lab at home
So sorry to hear of his passing. :(
The usual bad tantalum capacitors on these old models of oscilloscopes.
I had the same problem on my Tek475 that I repaired years ago.
Jim is the Man, RIP.
Ah the good ol' days before virtualization and before the internet went public. I have five scopes, two of them old 50's vintage that use electrostatic plates for deflection instead of coils.
A wizard in his natural habitat.
I love his inventory system!
he is so calm
Woooow.
very nice work desk 4:59 😁
very very good.
love the "inventory"
Holy Cow, you can hear the clock ticking...
Oh nice, it has the top mounted multimeter/Frequency counter.. If one cap has gone bad, it's not before the others... you know the story and so does he!
Magnificent stuff.
I love his inventory. Hehe
"poke around in inventory". Very funny.
One of those lousy dip tantalums caught fire in a Tek oscillocope at my friend's house and nearly burned the place down.
That's why they are named "tantalum fire starters."
Thanks for the warning. reminder: to turn it off when leaving the room.
But the most important question is of course: "did the scope survive?"
I love how he used the word 'gratis'.
I still run one of these on one of my benches... nice scope!
Jim Williams thanks
This man is awesome. I talk a lot faster, but I'm about 1/10,000th as smart as this fella.
RIP Jim Williams
Awesome
what a loss. he was happy to pass on the knowledge. He gave me some great tips on building preamps and chip selection
I worked as a sales rep for HP in the '80s. Selling an analog HP scope was tough. :)
I worked for HP as a lab engineer in the 1970s and had an HP 182C "fat beam" scope on my bench. There's a reason or three why selling an analog HP scope against Tek was very tough. But when digital scopes appeared, the tables turned 180 degrees. If not for Dave Packard's largesse towards Tek founder Howard Vollum who brought his scope ideas to HP first, Tektronix would never have existed. But it did, and made fabulous scopes like the 465.
The tables did turn 1(9)80 degrees:
hpmemoryproject.org/news/1980/hp1980_page_00.htm
Groundbreaking scope!
If you say so Rick. The HP 1980 scope certainly broke new ground and is clearly a milestone in the evolution from analog to digital scopes. It presages some of the 1-knob thought that swept Colorado Springs's scope and analyzer user interfaces for a while. But I just took a look at HP 1980 scopes on eBay versus Tek 2445s and 2465s (which are also analog/digital bridge scopes). I found one HP 1980 (not working) and hundreds of Tek scopes in various states (not working, working, refurbished) on eBay. Ditto CZcams videos. I found two about the HP 1980. I leave it to you to decide which sold more and ultimately had more influence.
The 1980 broke ground by facilitating automated time series measurements as part of an ATE system. Sequential tests could be programmatically set up and the results programmatically analyzed. The 1980B form factor was specifically for racking. The 1980 was also very expensive, but worth it for those that needed its advanced capability. The Tek scopes were primarily targeted as bench scopes and were less costly so obviously more of them were sold. HP later came out with the 54XXX series which were digital bench scopes at equivalent price points to the Tek models. Many of those are on the used market.
Yep, I can certainly see how the 1980 with its processor-controlled controls would work better in a rack-and-stack ATE system than anything Tek could offer.
If niobium oxide capacitors were developed earlier... Anyways, great man and engineer!
i have been looking for one of those scopes for ages but sadly i live in africa and pickings are poor in that field.
Would anyone be interested in starting a kickstarter campaign to fund a statue of Jim Williams he was a great man and certainly deserves the symbolic honour.
Tell me about it. I live in Africa as well, my college (Sci & Tech) has tons of Tektronix scopes and power supplies (Schlumberger gear, too) to be discarded. I tried talking to them to give them to me, they didn't want to. I asked to buy them, they didn't want to. They said there are companies that buy them... *by the kilo*. Pencil pushers, man.
Jugurtha Hadjar
He can still solder when hands are shaking. I have the handshaking issue as well-
Can't fault his inventory system. He found that cap in about 10 seconds.
You nailed it ... for me! Got my 465 in nonworking cond. from eBay in 2008. Was/is in SUPER cond (FAA surplus) but didn't work. Replaced a 0-ohm ("bad", I assume orig.) tantalum (per this vids suggestion) in the PCB area shown. And voila. Need Isay more.
Actually, anyone know how to modernize this scope to "modern" stds. Other than $ third-party calibration/certification?
I've heard replacing the electro caps with modern caps helps. Any other tips? THX!!
I wish he was alive to help me fix my scope! It's a BK precision with no tantalum capacitors, so I'm clueless, haha. The EBC pins of both transistors in a cascode amplifier stage al read about the same voltage, but I don't know what is causing that to happen. It was my grandpas, so I'm not going to toss it in the garbage.
Hi: I am sorry to hear that Jim William passed away. I am impressed with his D17 minuteman computer mounded on the wall-does it still exist. In 1961 thru 1963 I worked at Autonetics on these types of computers. I worked my way up from assemble to function test inspector. I am doing family history and I would like to asked- if you could sent me a photo of the D17-57673-501 read write board. I inspected all the boards but this one I remember the best because I inspected thousands of them. I am now a retired Professional Electrical/Pwr Engineer-Thanks
+Anthony Vidana Anthony, I am afraid I've had no contact with Jim's widow since he passed. I don't have a photo of the boards mounted on the wall.
--Steve
+Steven Leibson Thanks anyway. I used a board from a photo that is in the EE times dated 2004 www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1230567. It is an article about Jim Williams D17 minuteman computer boards hanging on the wall. The article has two close up photos of some of the board. The 57673-501 is shown but only partially but for family history it is good enough. Thanks for your help. Hopefully William widow donated the computer to some museum. It's part of history.
+Steven Leibson- I finally found a full scale photo of the 57673-501 as well as many other D17 computer boards they are listed by name not part number www.repairfaq.org/sam/d17b/d17bpcbs/ the part numbers and names and assembly slot numbers are listed in the D17 computer users group document but without photos. archive.org/details/bitsavers_autoneticsLogicEquationsApr71_11761659 But it like the Rosita stone for putting the photo with the part number together. The assembly numbers are show above the slots on the overall photo of the computer if you are looking to find where they go on the computer. the completee computer photo is found all over the web site by goggling it and is shown in d17 Wikipedia en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-17B#/media/File:Autonetics_D-17.JPG I hope this information can help somebody else. Thanks for your time
i have the same desk state... messy. the only thing i dont have yet is a 'scope
"let's poke around the inventory here..."
@321reh I am sorry but Jim's skills on removing the solder using solderwick leave a lot to be desired . A motor vacuum solder sucker would have been better. The S/C 47 uF tantalum capacitor across the 15V DC power supply is a standard fault in the 465.
I started my Apprenticeship in 1965, fault finding to component level is not hard if that's what you have done all of your working life, other equipment as well as Tektronix oscilloscopes. Rob
Holy crap, did ya'll see all the components (caps,xistors) on the table, how does he find the parts? Great vid.
Hi there guys, maybe you can help me, few days ago I purchased a HAMEG HM203-6 analog oscilloscope in a flea market. It's in good conditions when you see the electronics components and all the boards. I only changed the X-pos potenciometer for a new one.
But when I put in the Ground mode on whatever the two channels you dont see a line across the tube for calibrating, instead, you see somethin like a static sinusoidal signal. If I put a signal with the generator you can see it distorted a modulated above this static signal. In wathever position of time/div control.
I think the problem is in some transistors of Y Final Amplifier, becuase when you measure voltage in some nodes is not the same of the schematics. points like the voltage in the vertical deflexion plates or the output. What do you think?
Thanx a lot
question from Jim Williams: I have a 2465a where the displays disappears after few secs during initial power up. Any ideas? Do you have the schematic for this unit?
😍
is this the same Jim Williams of audio upgrades who modified sound craft delta mixer channels and so forth?
Different.
was that hanging at the dogpatch cafe, by any chance?
Is that big black thing on the bench a Metcal soldering station?
yes
What is the "Tektronix 465 b"
The Tektronix 465 was the workhorse oscilloscope for electrical engineers and technicians during the 1980s. The "B" version was an update of the original.
*****
The computer in the background is indeed from a Minuteman missile but it's not a Tektronix 465B, which is the oscilloscope that appears later in the video.
@robertgscott1949 Engineer First,,Technician Second,,Please try to realize that!! You should read some of the stuff he did,,Quite a Amazing Man!!
"This is [Tom Osbourne's] reward for getting HP into the computation business." Hahahah, Jim is pissed because nowadays HP sucks. Too bad Keysight couldn't have their trademark.
Can you tell me where the F116 fuse is please
So the tanatlum capacitor reads 0ohms across its two legs?
+Justin Le Could be zero or a few tens or a few hundred ohms. Any reading in that range means the capacitor is too leaky to work.
+Steven Leibson ahh thanks. ive been checking capacitors with both legs soldered in the PCB and assumed a shorted capacitor would read 0ohms, and that any other reading were just the rest of the circuit in parallel. From now on i will remove one leg and read resistance that way. no wonder why i've been so stumped.
+Justin Le Right. You can't measure this in-circuit with an ohmmeter. You need to lift one leg. Also, the reading will change initially as the capacitor charges up. Then it will reach a steady resistance value. A few hundred ohms or less is a leaky capacitor. Zero is shorted, of course.
+Steven Leibson thanks for the response. this helps a lot.
Which merchant banker put dislike?
cool
I love the 465B but your iron or soderwick is not doing its job properly.
+klystron44 You're a tad late. Jim Williams passed away four years ago.
+Steven Leibson R.I.P :(
Did I see solder in the mouth!!!!
Very interesting as I’m working on a 465 and the first thing I did was measure the resistance of the supply rails and found a dead short Across the 15v rail . Although I haven’t Isolated it to any bored yet. That’s the next job. Obviously it would be important to check for ripple on all the supply rails as it’s the main cause of tantalum failure. But be funny if it ends up being the same fault but I will will have to let you know. czcams.com/video/OG8NXRfAUbk/video.html
czcams.com/video/uCqwVvmi9kA/video.html
Nobody built 'scopes like Tek. I have two 475s and a 475A. I wouldn't part with with them for anything. Jim speaks too softly for my 65 year old ears to catch, though.
As stated, I was commenting on soldering techniques , not the man or his achievements, or weather he was a friend of somebodies. If people are looking at this film in order to repair something, this is not a good instructional type film. To start with there is no fault finding procedure shown. It's basic, if you are making an instructional film for broadcast ( & indeed the net is broadcasting ) correct procedures should be shown otherwise watchers of the film are shown bad practice.
Q: "Why did you trade in your 465 for a 475" A: With a 465, I can talk to Jesus; with a 475, I can talk to God."
This chap seems to be some sort of demigod in the US, here in Australia he is not heard of.
I was making a comment on technique. Yes I have have published articles in electronics magazines. I have taught electronics in a military electronics school, taught fault finding procedures and correct solder/desoldering techniques to NASA standards.
I am an electronics tech with civil & military training, I won't call myself an engineer, the word is over used, especially by septic tanks.