Scarf Joints for a Guitar Neck - Not That complicated
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- čas přidán 18. 03. 2021
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This is the cleverest tutorial about scarf joint as I could find on the whole internet. Bravo bravo!! Thank you!
This was amazingly helpful. You're awesome
A very valuable video. Greetings from Poland
You are a fantastic teatcher Thanks
This video is so helpful! A very clear description of the whys and wherefores of the scarf joint. Well done, and thank you!
By far the best video I've seen on scarf joints. Thank you! 👍👍
Thanks, @Manolo Santana, 🙏 Much appreciated
I always use only method "A". But I make a blank for the neck as wide as at the 22 (24) fret +5mm. Then I glue two pieces of wood from the sides to the head and then one solid overlay on top (2-3 mm thick). It turns out very strong.
So much wisdom!!! Thanks for sharing!
awesome video, super thorough and helpful
Wow, great video. I've been struggling how to glue them properly and how to cut when I don't have a band saw, great video, thank you so much.
One of the best videos on guitar scarf joints !! I'm now a subscriber and look fwd to watching more of your videos.
Thanks
🙏
This Sir, is the most useful scalf joint video on YT. Thank you for such a clear and informative video. Liked and subscribed.
Cheers
Thanks, and Thanks for the comment.🙏
Thx!!! Been struggling flattening boards, will use your router method 14:53
Lovely method, thanks
Thanks for this video. Very appreciated.
you are fantastic, super helpful and clear. keep at it, subscribed
TheElectricLuthier
Thanks for the kind words. Much appreciated 🙏
That is a GREAT video. Lots of very useful informations. Thx !
Thanks @Fred Hystair 🙏
I had the strangest feeling of deja vu watching this! I knew I had made a comment about scarf joints on one of your videos - I found it on your "Headstock angle" vid.
So now that I know I'm not losing my mind, this was a great follow up. Thanks Yoav!
Thanks, Peter, I think you asked about the preferred method. 🙏 There will be more on that. I trying to cover all the aspects of the building process, instead of just a straight-up build. That's why I am also going into fanned frets and 7 strings. I find it very educating, for myself too. Eventually, there will also be a guitar
excellent video
Thanks 🙏
Really great video. I prefer the type A joint and then I glue up a headplate on the face to reinforce that glue joint. I have used a nice cross cut hand saw to cut the angle and clean the joint up with sand paper attached to a flat surface. I like shallow angles as more wood is being glued. I prefer to place the neck blank on its side and use clamps on the table at the ends to stop the pieces from moving. I once made a neck where the head stock angle was shallow but I made the head in the classical style.
Thank you!
Brilliant video and explanation of the process. Thankyou for taking the time to make and share this. I am trying some different table saw jigs at the moment practising for my first guitar build soon. Your help here is really valuable and I appreciate it. Especially your thoughts on using the mitre saw and seperate cuts for neck and headstock. Thankyou again.
Thanks, @Pete Crosbie 🙏, I appreciate the comment. As much as I would love to have a fully decked workshop, I often have to make do with the tools I have. This makes for sometimes fun and sometimes frustrating results, but there is always more than one way to approach a task, and since we are not production-driven, we can make out own quirky methods. As for the headstock as a separate piece. That also came out of necessity since I had one blank which was a bit too short and another that twisted midway, plus, you cant leave a very long piece when cutting with the miter saw jig. Longer neck blanks are hard to find in timber-less countries, so it worked out for the best. Glad you like it. It also always bugged me that often (especially with Gibson-style necks) a very beautiful' long and thick piece of wood is used. Then it is cut to make a scarf joint and another piece is used to add the 'wings' to the headstock. Seems like an inefficient way to use the wood.🤷♂️ But what do I know
One of the best videos I've seen on this subject. Your visuals are really well done and clear.
I personally like cutting the joints on the table saw with a tenoning jig, leaning the blade over to whatever angle is required. Seems to be the safest way of cutting the angle IMHO.
I also like leaving the peghead piece thick at 3/4" thick at the joint and tapering it on the back side away from the joint. A little tricky but worth the extra material at the joint, once again IMHO.
thank you for the video...
Thanksfor the comment @Joe M
🙏. There is definitely more than one way (or my way) to make a scarf joint, and I have actually not seen anyone do it as I did. I do think that there are more people with a miter saw than table saws or band saws, and I was surprisingly happy with how clean and smooth the cut came out. At the end of the day, if you are happy with the end result (and it doesn't snap off under string tension) it's all good. I can see your point about keeping the peghead piece thicker.
Great video,very educational. Subscribed!
Thanks, @ikeshin1000, 🙏 Much appreciated
Thanks, the thickness was the interesting question for me. I got an answer 👍🏻
Thanks for the comment @Cigarbox Schulzi 🙏. Glad I can help
I would very much enjoy a video on building a jig for the table saw. I’ve used the method here on 3 different chop saws and I have always had problems with the material being square. Your videos are very user friendly and I find them to be very helpful quite often.
Thanks, @nicholaswalker7198 🙏. Sadly I don't even have a proper table saw at the moment' but I will keep it in mind for the future.
As ever, simple, clear and informative but above all, very much appreciated.
I own a few Charvel Surfcasters, they have Type B scarf joints but they start further along at the first fret not the nut. I guess that gives a greater chunk of wood, more fretboard covering the joint and the truss rod. Although aesthetically it raises other questions. Your spatula comments made me laugh. Those simple ‘why didn’t I think of this before’ moments.
Thanks, @fatpotanga, 🙏. My guess is that Charvel used a thicker chunk of wood and only thinned the headstock part after gluing, removing the excess from the back/ bottom of it. this way the nut position was nudged a bit forward.
‘why didn’t I think of this before’ was exactly my feeling 🤣🤣
At 3:55 you request analysis on Method A vs. Method B. One factor that must be considered is the tuning machines. The tuning machines I use are exactly ¼” in diameter and a specific ¼” drill bit that I have cuts the hole so that I need to use beeswax to push the tuner string post barrel into the hole then fully set it by tightening it down with a socket wrench. Notice with Method A at 2:08 that the 6th and 1st string tuners go through both pieces of the scarf joint, thus if your tuner string post barrels are as tight as mine in the holes they act like a dowel and since the tension of the strings is somewhat perpendicular, certainly not even approaching parallel, to the direction of the tuner string post barrels, I contend they make the Method A joint stronger than if the tuners were not there.
Great job. Thanks! 😁👏👏👏
Thanks, @Paulo Lopes ,Much appreciated 🙏
I’m so sorry this channel has no more subs with all the knowledge it has. I have done my part.
Sounds great
Thanks, Tracy. 🙏
Thanks
Great video, thank you 👍
Thanks, Much appreciated 🙏.
I just made box with right angle, and made the angle with surface planing machine. The box is on the otherside of bade and the wood comes behind Job done in a minute,
I appreciated the base for your router as an easy way of thicknessing the headstock. I do think you have a tendency to yell when you talk which made it a bit tough to listen to this for long periods of time.
Another glue tool from the kitchen supply is the silicone sauce brush, like for BBQ sauce. Even dried glue peels right off.
Great video that covers all the bases. I do know of two matters which I believe other commentators haven't mentioned. First with type A, if you remove the headstock material from the REAR of the scarf, the scarf is so far into the head that the first set of machine heads acts as a pair of bolts across the two pieces, for more strength. Second, with a good glue joint, the visibility of the scarf is no worse in type A than type B. In some respects, it is actually better, since the area of wood where the grain changes is thinner than in type B, and so less visible. Obviously this is only the case if you use a backstrap. This and the headstock overlay make a strengthening sandwich that is as good as the effect of the fingerboard in type B, in my opinion. Thanks very much for this.
Thanks for the comment @Robert Newell 🙏. These are all valid points and will really come down to personal preference, the finish and look and the type of wood. For example, in my opinion, a multilaminate neck, with any proper scarf joint, will look great, it doesn't try to look like one piece, to begin with... On the technical side of things, they should all be strong enough, and stronger than a one-piece angled headstock. Cheers
Great video as always!
#TheElectriLuthier Will you ever talk about guitar finishes, and how to pick one? Like dyes, oils, paints, stains, all the others. Really lost on that one😅
Thanks, @
Christian Holm Skyum 🙏I am still experimenting in the finishing field. On my current build, I will have a combination of very glossy and matt finish and I will try a few polishing methods. I have done matt polyurethane on the Dragon Tele and polished oil on the GGBO 2020 build.
This was a great video. I am getting ready to start my first build and I've been worried about how to do this angled headstock. You made it look easy and your "rebel" attitude matches mine as well. One question - I have 3/4 inch maple blanks. I think they should be thick enough but I was wondering if you think they'll be okay for the neck? I would obviously have to do the angled headstock you described and I would also have to add additional material at the heel but I'm curious what you think?
Thanks Bob. 🙏 The Most next is around 3/4" at the nut and a bit more at the heel if it's a bolt-on. That includes the thickness of the fretboard, so you should be fine if your stock is straight and smooth. I'd say, for a fender style, you are all set. Since you are talking about a scarf joint and a thicker heel, I assume you are going for a set, Gibson tyle neck. This should also be fine and you will just need to double the thickness of the heel, not an uncommon practice. It's going to be tight but if the fretboard is about 1/4", you should have enough material to get away with it. Just take into account that there will be visible seems both at the heel and the headstock.
I only use "B" for my scarf joints. There's more gluing surface and then adding the fingerboard to cover the joint makes it even stronger when talking about leverage from the strings. That joint is glued in 3 places: The head to neck, neck to fingerboard and head to fingerboard. On top of that, if you wants a natural finish on your head, you dont have to hide the joint with a peghead. Either joint is fine when using a peghead, but the peghead isnt necessary with joint "B". "B" for the win.
In Type B the minimum width of the glue joint is ~43 mm, in Type A it's the width of the headstock.
thats how i see it as well, also if you add a veneer that is extra support, so i glue the A method. i added a veneer on the top and then added one on the bottom because my headstock was too thin. it was m y first build. im doing the second now and im going to try to not have to put veneers
Great video! I learned so much about guitar necks, which makes me wonder. How strong is the glue that is being used to connect the two prices of wood? With the pressure from the strings pulling the head stock, I’m so amazed how the glue is so strong
The glue is strong enough that the wood fibers will split around the glue joint, rather than the glue joint break.
Sir: Option B allows you run any carbon fiber reinforcement into the scarf joint, further reinforcing the joint.
cool video, could this also be done for a straight neck-headstock design ? In my case I want to redo a angled headstock by cutting if off at an angle at the neck, and add a straight style headstock in its place. Not sure how the grain orientation needs to be in order to do that.
Interesting one On the technical side of things, it can probably be done although it sounds very counterintuitive. You will probably want to cut or shave the angled headstock from the backside, lengthwise, and as far as you can from the nut, You will probably also not be able to use the same piece you cut, unless it's symmetrical like a Gibson and you manage to make a very straight and accurate cut. I'd consider, making a jig for it. Another thing to consider is the original scarf joint if there is one.
The other argument for where to place your scarf joint is cold creep of titebond and titebond like glues. Putting the joint under the fingerboard will lead to a hump in the fingerboard if the joint ever creeps even just a teensy bit.
I can see your point, though I am not femiliar with this kind of headstock 'creeping'. There is relativly a lot of gluing surface area and a sharp angle for the string tension to work against. Maybe if the guitar was subjected to very high temperature and humidity But I would still think it should hold.
There are a couple of other things to add regarding the simple side profile diagram you show, illustrating the length of gluing surface of "Back-scarfed" and "Front-scarfed" joints (type A and B in your diagram). In front-scarfed headstocks (type B in your diagram), the gluing surface is reduced quite significantly (when comparing it to a side elevation diagram) by the neck profile. As you have to remove material around the glue joint to make the curved surface of the neck joint. In back-scarfed joints (type A in your diagram) the tendency is to cut the width of the neck all the way up to the top of the headstock, so the headstock is effectively too narrow. The next process is then to add straight pieces of wood ("extensions") to either side of the headstock to make it wide enough again. This has the effect of STRENGTHENING the back-scarf joint, by laminating "strengthening bars" either side. Normally you have to put a veneer over the whole face to cover up the joins on the face however.
I always make my headstocks this way (back-scarfed). Because A) back-scarfed headstock joints are not reliant on a single glue joint to keep them together. And the strengthening bars (I put on) straddle the scarf joint on both sides, making it practically unbreakable B) there is one single uninterrupted piece of wood going from the top-nut to the end of the neck C) all wood is subject to expansion and contraction across the width of the grain, due to humidity and temperature variations. With a front-scarfed headstock joint, there is (at least in theory) the possibility for the piece of wood that the headstock is made out of to shrink in thickness due to low humidity. This will potentially have the effect of lowering the action as the nut will will be pulled down with the shrinkage of the headstock material. And conversely, in humid conditions (I live in the UK!) the headstock material can expand in thickness and pull the action upwards. Of course the fretboard over the neck blank will minimise this, but the potential problem is real, not just imagined. ALL timber DOES expand and contract. It's a proven fact of physics.
For glue spreaders I always use the folded edge of a piece of folded used sandpaper (1-2" square, when folded). It's always straight, it has serrations on it, which form a kind of "comb" effect, and when you've spread what you need to spread, it goes STRAIGHT in the bin! This really IS the perfect glue spreader (without using a roller). AND you always know there is plenty of used sandpaper around to use.
I do like your chop-saw jig though. And the extended base router for taking down the thickness. I think I might have to make one of those myself. Thanks!
Thanks @Alexander Guest Guitars for the very detailed comment. 🙏 You make some very good points for the back-scarfed method. I did not consider the headstock 'side wings' as a strengthening factor as I used one wider piece but it makes perfect sense.
Hey guys! I'm an absolute beginner so please be gentle... The front scarf method has more gluing surface at the joint itself (once the headstock is thinned to size) but the side pieces for the back scarf method add strength... would it be worth combining the two? As in, make a front scarf (bigger gluing surface) and then add some side pieces for the headstock as reinforcement? An added advantage (provided this method doesn't have some horrific flaw I'm not thinking of) is that you would also eliminate the visible joint on the from of the headstock (but you would still have vertical slits from the side pieces). It may make for an even stronger joint. Again I'm a beginner and really don't know, just an idea. Thanks to both of you for the information by the way.
Whatdegree angle did you cut at
B all the way
all you need to use is clamps on your table spaced to hold the neck blank still then glue no need for amateur jerry rigging with screws
Scarf joints give me the creeps, i feel the glue is eventually gonna give up and the tension of the strings is gonna finish breaking it.
Single piece necks for me.
I hear you Jorge. Personally I am all for single-piece headstocks, but I wanted to challenge myself and test it out. I think it's really an aesthetic choice more than anything else, but I guess there is still plenty of guitarists who will disagree and build an angled\ scarf jointed headstock. Imagine how boring guitars would be if we all built the exact same way. 🙂
3:00 won't agree, the main purpose why scarf joints are used is getting an angled headstock with thinner slabs of wood, so to save money on wood!
No guitar requires a super strong headstock, if you drop the guitar and the headstock breaks it its not the headstocks fault.
I have yet to see or read about an angled headstock that broke off due to string tension only!
It's a gimmick to trick people into thinking that it's something special like so many other things around guitar building!
People have found ways to use and sell wood, they would normally have no use for, that's why we see more and more "multilaminated everything" guitars.
Hell, they even started making fretboards out of different woods and sell it as something new and cool, which in reality it's "ey i have cleaned up my
workshop and found this scrap wood i have no real use for" I mean, econimically it's a GOOD thing but i hate it when people sell those "multi wood piece"
guitar at such high price levels. Maybe it's also to push up the value of regular woods up, who knows!
Thanks for the comment. I don't think saving money while creating a stronger neck is necessarily a bad thing. You are correct in saying that necks don't break because of string tension alone, but after seeing a 70's Les Paul break because a friend's child accidentally pushed it, you wish it was 'too strong'. It breaks your heart. A scarf joint or a flat neck would have probably survived it. I can sense your frustration with the guitar industry coming up with 'new and improved ways to sell guitars for a higher price but I am thinking about the home builder more than larger companies with concerns of mass production. I look at the practical benefits of scarf joints and laminated necks and weigh them to the alternatives. If I can make an angled neck with a 1" peice of wood instead of 3" (which is hard for me to come by), it's a win in my book.
@@yoavbinyamini Absolutely agree, from a home builders perspective it makes total sense! Also if it's done correctly it's half as bad, but i have seem many bad scarf joints. For example when differend wood types are used or multi laminated necks where the scarf joint part is "blank" or even worse when the headstock is multi laminated as well and the stripes do not align perfectly. It simply looks bad :)
Also with a smaller angle even an one piece neck will be strong enough, i think the huge angle Gibson is using is the main problem for the headstocks snapping on impact.
Sorry, but stronger is stronger. No one plans to drop their guitar. As a working musician, give me the strength! So saving money on production and having something stronger is not as good as what? So-called tone that is immeasurable? I don’t think so.
I didn't know that borat was a luthier
LMAO PLEASE DONT USE SCREWS TO MAKE A SCARF JOINT IT IS NOT NESSECARY
Electrical luthier?????? O yes I also have electrical stuffs, like a bandsaw and drilling machines. As allways those americans talk to much. To make a neck is not strange at all. Just a bit of common sense, is all You need. Btw, it would be nice to see what this craptalker here, if he could make a V-joint and is able to. Of course not. Better he scarfing further on. That,s the easiest way.
American??? Ha! 🤣🤣 Thank you for your comment, I am sure it will benefit the other viewers. 🙏