Aluen Cap For Varroa Mites: Treatment Research Results
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- čas přidán 26. 02. 2022
- Research data and results on the oxalic acid varroa mite treatment "Aluen Cap". Also includes information on the mite treatment "Apivar".
A new formulation of oxalic acid for Varroa destructor control applied in Apis mellifera colonies in the presence of brood.
link.springer.com/article/10....
Bob.
This has to be the most helpful information and delivery method of the information.
I hope you continue this journey with us.
Thanks for the follow up Mr Bob . I asked about this on another video . I actually watched this when it was releashed but for some reason slipped my memory . Thanks for all you do
Hi Bob! You made a great point; this product might be great as a winter broodless treatment. Might even be good in my area where hives slow down but never go broodless. Appreciate your videos and insights!
Bob, Thank you very much for this information!. I must admit I was disappointed with the 55/65% efficacy however I was pleased that it performed similar to Apivar. I was also pleased that there were no safety concerns and low residual levels found in the honey. I found it interesting in the graph displayed at 15:07 that the control group also had an increase in oxalic acid residues (he did not speak directly to that). However as he pointed out, given honey normally has a range of 1-800 ppm, I guess that variability found naturally obscures any statistical significance (kind of like trying to "micrometer a brick" as they say).
Hello Bob! I'm so glad to see this follow-up presentation. Everyone wants to know a better way to treat for mites with great efficacy. All heavy hitters in the science of beekeeping. I really enjoyed the interview and PowerPoint presentation! Aluen Cap Oxalic Acid Strips are new to me. I always enjoy being in the know about new treatments. Thank you! I'm guessing it's working better on northern States? You asked some great questions. Looking forward to more trials with Aluen Cap Strips.
BTW, you were absolutely correct about the composition of ProSweet! It does indeed have HFCS, they didn't include it on the contents label.
@@FrederickDunn I wonder if the HFCS might explain the PH shift we saw in year old Prosweet? Forgot the numbers but it reminded us of the poor HFCS issues Canadian beekeepers had several years ago.
Hi Frederick. I'm sure there will more on these strips coming out in the near future. The next video I'm putting out is with Lewis from UGA discussing the different results when feeding HFCS vs. sucrose syrup. The research data he has shows the different ways they effect the bees, is very interesting and will be surprising to some. Thanks.
Yes, overwintering treatment in minimum brood northern (Minnesota/Canada) climate potential? It would be interesting to see tests in say Ian Steppler's or Mike Palmer's outfits. A surface guess here but this might be the product's optimum effectiveness. Fascinating broodless potential.
Hello there,
As usual Hat's off.
One might thunk, due to low residue, using double the strips. Meaning a strip in front of the frame and one other at the end. The logic behind is by using this reduces the risk of an infectes mite bee to pass through the frame without touching the strip.
We do use them here in Albania for quite a long time and some fellow beekeepers without removing them all year around. They do manifestate very low mite counts every time tests have been performed. While in the middle of the summer , since its very hot here and thus no pollen available, colonis tend to be broodless they use OA drible and the same situation repeated in middle of the winter. Temperatures in winter here dont tene to go very low, they are ~-5- 5° C.
Wish you the best.
Thank you.
Hi Bob, from your last reply I was expecting that Aluen Cap was not the silver bullet. My colleagues and I have discussed rotating Api Var over a 5 year period. We are considering multiple vaping of Oxalic acid through the year when the colony is free of honey supers.
That could work if you can put in the labor.
@@bobbinnie9872 do you think Aluen cap will get government approval ?
Hi I create an artificial broodless period by caging the queen for 24 or 28 days, on day 24 I apply OA.. efficacy is close to 90%..
Randy Oliver has suggested an hypothesis that when extended release OA issued, the mites remain on the bees and no longer enter the capped brood in large numbers. It has struck me that, if that is the case, these mites would be vulnerable to oxalic acid vapor treatments. I’m not seeing any pursuit of this hypothesis. What are your thoughts?
Another thought is that if mite loaded can be maintained at relatively low and the colonies can then be treated with OA vapor on Oct. 1 and Nov 1 in the southern Michigan climate where I am to knock the mites back in low brood periods. Your thoughts?
I'm not aware any research being done on your first comment but it seems reasonable. As to your second thought, as long as the mite numbers can be kept low enough I think that would be a very good non toxic approach. The key for us has usually been to do a super job of lowering mite numbers when the bees are completely brood-less in winter.
I know some research is showing low mite numbers in spring are expected as the mites are in the brood at that time and not on the bees. I wonder if we should be treating with formic during this time before we put on honey supers to knock the population back.
I know of people that are and report good results.
How is this application different from Randy Oliver's OA-glycerin cellulite sponges? I've had decent luck rotating his method with other treatment regimens.
My guess is that there's probably not a lot of difference in control.
Is there a way in which returning bees can be exposed to OA at the entrance ?
How many grams of oxalic acid are given with the Aluen CAP treatment? Randy Oliver uses, I believe, 50 grams oxalic acid.
I suspect a significant issue here is the type of carrier used with the oxalic acid/glycerin mix. I believe Randy Oliver is working on this. Perhaps a particular combination of Swedish sponges and hog mat and drywall tape might work best. One for the quick kick, another for the long haul?
Here is a link to an article that explains the composition of Aluen Cap. link.springer.com/article/10....
@@bobbinnie9872
I get an "Article Not Found" message.
@@djg585 Sorry, looks like a few numbers got left out. link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s13592-015-0405-7
Hi Bob, Are you aware of any scientific study about treating the mites with garlic juice?!
Sorry, no.
Hello sir. What is the highest temperature at which oxalic acid vapor can be used? I am from Iraq, after a month the nectar season will end. I have a varroa infection. The temperature is up to 40 Celsius. Can steam be used?
Sorry, I honestly don't know how hot it can be when using oxalic and I don't know about steam.
Ha Bob I need to pick your wonderful bee keeping brain I am checking hives again and giving pollen patties I am finding very strong hives some of my hives have 7 frames of capped brood now they are 4-5 boxes high drawn comp they are laying like a mad woman how many frames would u remove to equilize them or would u our flow starts april In your videos u pull yours back to 4 u said if i remember right 4-5 frames of bees will peek in 4-5 weeks and u do not want them to peak befor the flow they will swarm so please tell me what to do and thanks so much, just so u know it is still going down freezing at night. 50-60-and some 70 during the days Thanks and have a blessed week
Hi Frances. It takes 7 to 8 weeks for 4 frames of bees with brood to peak. The closer you get to the flow the more you can leave. Sounds like you are still a month from your flow. Perhaps 5 or 6 frames of bees with brood at this point depending on how late in April you want them to peak. We are manipulating our brood into the bottom brood chamber every two weeks at this point while equalizing as we go. I'm also assuming the queen isn't isolated to a single box. Good luck.
@@bobbinnie9872 I really thank u no queen excluder stoping her moving the brood down I have been checking every other week up to now, adding pollen patties as needed and 1-1 u remember that man in ten u interviewed well I just keep adding boxes with drawn comb not checker boarding to cold here at night but when i go back I open the top box and if it is full of bees another box goes on like he did I have been tilting boxes checking for cells not 1 to this point,, they are doing just so great Thanks for every thing Have a blessed day/week and thank u again for always snswering all my questions.
Thanks for taking the time to bring this to us Bob.
Can you get the Aluen Cap in the US yet (Jan 2023)?
Not that I know of.
Can Inverted Sugar Syrup be used
to feed bees
Thank you
I used to feed an inverted dry sugar call "Drivert" from C&H sugar with great success but I'm not well informed on all the formulations out there and they might have in them.
sigh
Really appreciate you sharing these varroa videos with us!
Great information. Fascinating. I’m in Alabama was wondering the same thing about low brood count or even brood-less treatment . Thanks for the info.
So interesting! I wonder why all sites were in the humid east coast? So many questions for follow up. What about treatment during a requeening event in mid/late summer? Or earlier, in the spring? What about changes in dosage? What was the mite pressure, from surrounding bee colonies, around the surrounding test sites?
Randy Oliver has done alot of OA/GlY research in dry areas and has been curious to see how it does in humid areas
All good questions.
We also didn't hear about the current trial's dosage oxalic acids/glycerin ratios
@@user-zu2jw4sn3m Aluen Cap treatment consists of four strips U-shaped. The matrix of these strips is composed of cellulose (45 cm × 3 cm × 1.5 mm); each one contains 10 g of OA mixed with 20 mL of glycerin. link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s13592-015-0405-7
Thanks for this and all of everyone's time
I think you’re on the correct path Bob, where you’re considering the data to utilize extended OA during the later months of the year as a passive control until spring. I had that thought based on Randy’s data and made up mild strips for 8 of my 20 colonies in November. While not a significant data set, I’m interested to observe wash results once the pollen starts here.
Interesting. I know a guy who used homemade 1:1 OA cellulose sponges last year, left on the hives for 60 days. By the end, the counts were below 2% for every hive, and some didn't register any mites. I believe that Randy Oliver showed that 1:1 OA:glycerin is more effective than a 1:2 OA:glycerin, so it would be interesting to see a test with a higher concentration OA ratio.
For winter, I just hit my broodless hives with OAV twice in December and once in January, but do 2x the recommended dose. Other studies are showing that OAV needs to be about 4g/brood box to be effective.
Hello Bob. I wonder if the humidity would cause a difference in the results. Where you are might be as humid. As it is in Alabama. Beltsville is really close to the coast.
Very possible. Other oxalic studies I've been involved in showed poor results here but faired better out west.
Interesting .. if I need to treat in aug I normally split them get them tight .. apivar treatment needs to be tight or I don't get the effect I'm after ... I'd like to try this oa strip treatment .. great video
Fantastic presentation on the study. I'd agree that the bloodless or near bloodless period will have a positive affect on mite populations.
But even knocking the populations down so that they can be hit again with cool weather here in Pa. is a big plus.
As for Apivar, I won't be using that anymore after the disastrous ineffective results for two years.
I love your vid
Thank you Bob,
What an excellent video. Particularly, it shows again how working in beekeping is so location dependent, temperature and forage, also how scientists may be at times limited in things only beekeeping think about by experience, your observation about different breeds was just the demonstration of that, I wonder how the study would have shown on Russians and Carniolans, if the Georgia study was done with your Caucasians, then it matters as the results were similiar to Apivar. The other aspect of importance is that it could very well be the solution to those colonies where mites are showing resistance to Apivar.
I'll have the pleasure to meet you at the Hives for Heroes conference in Nebraska next week. it's like meeting a Hollywood star of the beekeeping community.
Good points. I'm looking forward to Nebraska. See you there.
I can see a case being made for a carnie type bee, shutting down brood, if oxalic is pursued as a control agent.
Hey Bob New Zealand has been using that for years
Ha Bob great video thanks so much for sharing this, I do wish that it had killed every mite in the hive I hope they do the experiment that u suggested please keep the videos coming u do a wonderful job U know what I do what u do, you treated in November and December I did to be cause u said u were I had never did it before. I did have some loss but nothing compared to last year i went in with 38 came out with 30 and I am so happy. To me it is good because u were kind enough to do videos and show us what u do and when u always answered all my questions and I thank u for helping me and all the rest of us out here have a blessed week. Thanks for everything you are great
Hola, saludos desde Argentina habiliten para traducir al español.
Hi Frances. Thanks for the kind words.
We have had great results using this product during winter when there is few brood. Additionally, higher temperatures help the release of the OA, so it works for us because our winter in Paraguay is still warm. So probably might have great results in areas with similar conditions in the south of the US.
Mr Bob what is the ingredients they using to make this
I'm honestly not sure what is in it besides oxalic.
Bob, I'm located about 1-1/2 hour drive due north of Auburn, and run a Carniola crossed bee myself. In regards to the comments about high brood counts, last summer was rather unusual here for me with rains that kept coming on into July and August. I had a pollen flow that never really let up, and as a result I went into August - September with about twice the amount of brood that I normally would see. This pattern ran right on into my goldenrod flow in late September / early October, and I didn't see my brood nest start shrinking much until way on into November this past year. I suspect Auburn seen much the same down at the University. I started my mite treatments in early August and was using OA vapor myself, and with that much brood production still in full swing, it was a pita for me to get my mite levels to drop much. 14 OA vapor applications later and on into November by then, I finally gained some control. So yes, this past Summer / Fall down my direction was out of normal character for me, and I think Auburn's results could be viewed as a bit out of character for them as well.
Thanks for posting the info.
Thank you.
Two weeks back February 14, 22. . Random washes on 25 samples out of 1200 hives.
Bees in almonds . Averaging about 10 frames of bees. 14 as of yesterday.
14 mites on 6700 bees. All hand counted .
Only OA pads.
Its a low and slow kill . 42 days is just a start.
What kind of pads are they?
Hello ser,
You have this reserch articl on google " A new formulation of oxalic acid for Varroe destructor control applied im Apis Mellifera colonies in the presence of brood" by the Matias Maggi, Elian Tourn and others. There is youtube video "Paperboard strips with oxalic acid and glycerol for varroa treatment. New Zealand beekeaper use this method for years after last honeyflow.
Thank you.
Great news 🐝🐝 Save Bee's Important Job 🐝👌 Thank you Bob great update 👍👍 Sebastian from UK 🐝😉
Bob I have question about if anyone has tested previously for single varroa Mites ?? for how many disease carry single Mites.?? I believe that varroa Mites carry massive diseases and are spreading them in hives. I think it's important to test for it.
I'm not aware of any studies on that. It would be interesting.
I believe that is important 🐝🐝 I did ask also Ian Steepler about this when I did have live chat with Ian and Bruce 2 weeks ago.
Ian to was not aware about this to.
Ha are u doing any thing special with your bees at this time of year. I am feeding pollen patties have moved the brood down and feeding 1-1 syrup just to get them going this is now swarming season here, we or I should say I have lots of drone walking around in most of my hives thanks again Bob
We don't have many drones hatching yet but will start splitting the yards south of our shop in 2-1/2 weeks with caged queens purchased from two friends in Florida. We hold off on our own mating until at least mid April.
@@bobbinnie9872 Thanks
What about formic pro in the spring then follow up with OA+G strips in July then apivar end of Aug
That could be a very good plan.
Thanks for the great information. I doesn’t look very promising though.
I'm interested in winter treatments. I still have hope... Currently I have 2 options here for winter:
Run around with a mask and smoke the bees with OA or drip with OA sugar solution. Both are very dependent on the weather and the best effect is only when certain conditions are met I believe. Can only open the box for drip if the colony is in a cluster. Can only gas the colony when it's too cold outside but their not in a cluster. This is for the biggest effect.
This treatment would allow me to hang in a strip at the beginning of December and not bother with it till first inspection. And reduce the risk of gassing people in the surrounding area.
1. Cost? Expensive, or not? 2. Seems like the type of bee is going to be part of a long term solution. Brood breaks during summer dearth and winter may turn out to be as important as VSH or uncapping/recapping behaviors.
The cost seems to be unknown at this point. It's a dollar a strip in some areas of South America but we all know what can happen with the price of some items when they get here. I believe genetics will be the long term answer but that will take time.
I know louis said it wasn’t curative however id like to see data comparing treatments when the products are applied to colonies with high infestation s
My colonies in this study started with a fairly high with an average around 7%.
If I’m not mistaken, Randy Oliver has tracked this road of treatment in his experiments, or something similar. And not just recently.
It is a little bit of work and mathematical formulas for scientific accuracies are (imperative), but may I suggest you seek knowledge of the one day, Formic Flash method which have been, and still used successfully, namely in Germany.
Without going deeply into this, The one day Formic Flash Treatment, (when used PROPERLY) shows GREAT promise. Phillip Hall
What is it made out of this product you know talking about
Randy's recent OA/GLY results with the pads have been very impressive. Much gentler to a colony then a formic flash.
@@wadebarnes6720 There's an old West Virginia University PDF about 50% formic flash, designed for FL in the summer. The PDF's are harder to find now, but they're out there. One uses a fumigator board you build, the other meat pads. I used it a summer a cpl yrs ago in the middle of the nectar flow. I cam away thinking it was too much work moving supers of honey to get down to the brood for treatment
I use formic flash every summer after taking off the supers. It is very restricted in how to use it. Also we use different hives here in our area (simplex size). Also in our area (Netherlands) it is very common to use a varroa plank under the hive. Usually we leave this plank under the bottom to count mites, but I also use it to place the cleaning pads on them. All values I will now mention are in metric system.
From the supermarket I buy cleaning pads, their size is 20x20x.5cm. I drip 85% formic acid 10ml per box on them (we use double brood boxes by default because our simplex box sizes are smaller, so 2 boxes =20ml). Then I leave this pad there for 4 days. After 4 days you can repeat this treatment for 4 more rounds. I usually only do 2 because of the weather.
When temperature is too low or high (18-25c) you cannot treat. Too high: hives get killed, too low and no effect. Also humidity plays an important role. Last year I treated during a rainy period, I saw no notable mite drops and still saw DFW / mites on bees. Years before I saw drops of hundreds of mites.
If you use too much acid (once gave 30ml to a double box) the bees will panic and run out of the box. I'm pretty sure I lose 1 queen due to this. But in general queens stay laying and alive if you follow the guidelines.
I also have used Liebig dispensers, but I absolutely hate them. They released formic slowly, but after the treatment period I took them off and they were still dripping some residue in the box, on bees and on my clothes which were ruined since it burns holes right away. It is very scary stuff and if used improperly you can cause explosions, acid burns and breathing issues. It is however the most effective treatment when all parameters are right. But it leaves for such a short moment a year it is not the easiest way to treat.
Oh and before I forget: I always cool my formic acid in a freezer before opening it. This stuff at room temperature can knock you down if you do are not careful.
@@brianchrisman4331 I built 150 of these 15 years ago. Last brought them out 3 years ago to try again.
Back to the .. "That was a failed experiment file she goes."