Sparrow vs Chameleon vs Blackbird XLC - Hammock Comparison
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- čas přidán 16. 04. 2018
- Sparrow vs Chameleon vs Blackbird XLC - Hammock Comparison
Comparison of the Dream Hammock Sparrow, the Dutchware Gear Chameleon and the Warbonnet Blackbird XLC. I've had several nights (at least) in each of them, but I wanted to the some completely unbiased opinions. So we went out on a 3 night trip along the Eagle Rock Loop in Arkansas, and we swapped hammocks each night.
Each of us had slightly different reasons for our rankings. The hammocks were set up as close to being the same as I could, with top covers and various storage options. The Dream Hammock Sparrow had a ridgeline organizer, and two peak bags (significantly less room than the others). The Chameleon had a ridgeline organizer and the sidecar. And the Blackbird XLC had the shelf.
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Thanks for watching! - Sport
Videos like this is why I love your channel. Very informative. Thanks.
I appreciate that and thank you!
Thank you! These hammocks are a really big investment and having this info when you aren't able to try yourself is so helpful!
I'm glad you find it helpful. That's the intent of my videos!
Go to a hang and/or ask people who live near you! ;)
Kinda pointless too invest a bunch in a hammock just my opinion
Your great Video is the best I’ve seen on these three Hammock’s. Thank You. H.
Thanks! I appreciate it.
Thank you for this. Coincidentally, I am trying to decide between these three myself for my next hammock and you helped me seal the deal.
Dream Hammock ordered
Great video. I am shopping now and I appreciate the information. I am looking to upgrade my hammock setup.
If you have any specific questions, don't hesitate to ask! Thanks!
Thanks so much for this comparison. I'm upgrading my Grand Trunk and have been on the fence about what to order. This video really helped. Dream Hammock was one of my top contenders. Between this video comparison and Randy's responsiveness to my endless questions, I think my mind is made up. :)
I think you've made a great decision!
And did you buy a Dream Hammock? If yes: which ordere number?
Nice video, great idea about a three day trip and rotating hammocks between the three of ya👍
Another benefit of shorter ridgelines (besides improved sleep via a flatter lay) is a much improved chair! It's easy to see the head y'all have in the Sparrow compared to the XLC when sitting in this video.
Yes, the head space is for sure noticable. As you lay in them you also notice the difference in internal space. Thanks!
Well done amigo. Numbers don't lie.
It is awesome that these cottage vendors have such high quality products that it is hard to pick a "winner".
Thanks! It's always tough to pick which you like best. It's very subjective which is why I used various points of view!
Very nice comparison. I will put out there that I have the Dream Hammock Raven and absolutely love it. DH just makes an incredible quality product. That being said, I wish there were more storage options for them. Randy has told me he can make anything I need, but I'd love to see a standard storage option become available on their site--maybe a hybrid shelf/sidecar.
They started selling the gear sling which many have pointed out to me this morning. I think I'm going to have them add the gear loft/shelf, and a gear sling, then I'll do a video showing them both!
Great review! I've practically lived in my warbonnet Blackbird xlc for a year I highly recommend.
Right on! Glad you're enjoying it!
I was a huge warbonnet fanboy. Blackbird was THE hammock to get. In 2010 it was about the only one available. But I recently bought a Hammeck Envy in polyd1.2 which Dutch said was his fav.. and I see why. I just sold my custom black XLC to get a dutch in polyd. No idea why, but it's amazing. Light years ahead of my blackbird. Love rewatching your vids buddy.
Thanks! I haven't been back out in the XLC in a while, but haven't fully given up on it just yet.
I love my original Warbonnet blackbird. Only had one night in my chameleon so it’s too early to tell how I like it at this point, but I have a Darrien on the way to throw a wrench into the mix. Good feedback on all of them. Great video👍
Thank you! Good luck with your own comparisons!
This is fascinating that all three of you pretty much had the same experience and ratings. I just got a Warbonnet BB classic and only have a DIY Switchback I made a few years ago to compare it too. It was the footbox that appealed to me because the one I made, while easy to lay fairly flat on the diagonal, compresses my feet into each other too much unless I add some cushioning under my knees. I have no issues with actual calf ridge in it though. I'm hoping I can get the WBBB all dialed in with that footbox to get my feet more comfortable. Otherwise, a Dream Sparrow or T-bird may be in my future.
Thanks!
Fantastic for those of us who can only budget for one.
I spend the money so you don't have to!
Excellent video !!!!
Thank you!
I just upgraded from an ENO double nest beginners hammock to a Warbonnet XLC- and I can attest it took me a couple of hours of messing with it and watching several setup videos to get the right hang/lay- I still haven't spent the night in it and have no experience with the Chameleon or Sparrow, it is still pretty comfy.
Spencer_Lives Thanks for your input! There are a lot of people out there who love their Blackbirds.
Very nice comparison. Great job trying to maintain a level playing field. I'm not a brand guy by any means but I do have the BB XLC and sleep awesome in it. The foot end vs head end height is a factor and it took me 2 or 3 night of hanging it before I found my spot with it. Now I just throw it up and go. When I decide to give something else a try I'll have to look at Dream Hammock they have been getting a lot of positive attention lately. Thanks for sharing this.
DragonsTrails Thanks for your input. I haven’t given up hope for the XLC!
Good luck with it worse case you have other great hammock options available to you.
I own far too many hammocks, but the sparrow is by far my favorite. The one option for the Dream hammock you didn't mention is the Gear Sling. They're versatile pieces of gear. They can be used externally on the pack hooks, or strung up like a gear hammock on the ridgeline. I typically pack in with my top quilt and pillow stored in the gear sling and then attach it to either place depending on the situation. If it's warmer out, it goes outside. For colder nights, it goes inside on the ridgeline.
I highly recommend picking one of those up.
I like the gear sling, I got to see them and how versatile they are at Hangcon. I think I might be grabbing one of those at the same time I have them add the peak loft! Thanks!
Also didn't mention the footbox for diagonal lay in the war bonnet. Did they even use it, it's a pretty big feature?
great vid
Thanks! glad you enjoyed it!
Very nice comparison. I own a WBBB, not the XLC and agree it took a few times to get use to. 3 years ago I shortened the ridge line by 3 inches and it made a world of difference because it has a little more sag and as an added bonus, it did raise the ridge line up a bit so it is now a little more out of the way while just sitting in it as a chair. I would still like to try the DH’s tho. Being from OH I would like to support he locals and I have met Randy and wife. Both very nice people. Thanks for the review.
Goat! good to see you on here! Good call on the adjustments to the ridgeline, you'd be surprised how big a difference that can make in many different hammocks! Thanks! I have my 3rd DH just about finished up from Randy and Deanna, should be shipping today or tomorrow, worth the wait!
Can’t wait to see it Mark. I was just browsing their website as we speak. I need more gear like a whole in my head but you know how that goes. Keep up the good info. Take care buddy.
Should be to me tomorrow!
Great vid! You mentioned that the Sparrow had a "shortened" ridgeline: what were the ridgeline lengths? Do you think the comfort of the other two would be better with adjustable ridgelines (IIRC, they all come with fixed)?
They do all come fixed, and what I found afterwards was that the ridge lines are actually both about the same length, the difference is how they are connected which effectively makes the Sparrow an inch or so shorter than the Chameleon. Hope that helps.
Hey Mark, great video and thanks for doing the comparison of the three. I personally went back and forth between the Sparrow and Chameleon and ended up with the Sparrow, which I love.
On a side note, that is a cool shirt and I would like one. Do you sell them?
Thanks! Ah, someone finally noticed the shirt! There will be a sale on them coming soon, check for a video with the details soon!
Phew I'm glad I didn't go with the Blackbird. Last summer I dove all in the hammocking and got the Chameleon. I did go with the 1.0 though. I asked you and a few other channels and you all said I couldn't go wrong with the Chameleon. Thank goodness. I can't keep buying different hammocks. Thank you!!!
Glad you are enjoying your Chameleon. I don't mind the 1.0 fabric, but I have found that I do prefer the lay in the 1.6 weight a little better. Thanks!
Yeah I wanted to go with the lightest setup possible. I'm being a graham weenie. I also have a very inexpensive Explore Outfitters Camouflage double 12'. The suspension that came with it weighs a ton though. Its mostly for lounging around the campsite when we take the camper. But I'll tall ya it is awesome and super comfortable. I've taken it on a few hikes, just with different suspension. If anyone ever asks you what's a budget hammock you'd recommend they should check it out, I don't think there's better. Just as long as its the 12' double. I've seen some that are 9' and I cannot speak for those.
i have the Chameleon in 1.0 and love it too.
Sweet!
all 3 are great hammocks made by good people. personal choice comes down to be the end.
i love my original xlc and chameleon. heck i even like my halfwit when it comes to shaving ounces.
the chameleon has become my go to for backpacking and the blackbird when i car camp. with that being said i do agree with you about the xlc being the most finicky about its hang. when its perfect there is no better sleep, but after 10 to 12 hours hiking i do not want to mess with getting a hang perfect. i just want to put my fat self in my hammock and sleep
Thanks! I'm going to keep playing with the hang in my XLC and see if I can find that perfect sleep!
Nice comparison Mark. Glad you went with single layers too. I have the Lightweight Double Blackbird XLC: I haven't perfected the Ultimate Hang yet, but have had excellent night sleeps with and without a pad and/or under quilt. Did any of you guys have trouble with keeping the under quilt in place on the XLC?
I believe that Kris did have that problem. Thanks!
I did have problems with keeping my Uq where I wanted it throughout the night
Thanks. My wife remedied the problem by sowing some loops onto the hammock and using some Dutch clips. Now all is good, in the woods.
How have you ended up liking or not liking the warbonnet? Im new to hammocks and looking to buy my first. Was looking at warbonnet xlc
Not only did I not really enjoy it, I let 3 other friends use it and they didn't really enjoy it. I have since traded it with someone for some other gear. I know there are a lot of people who love it, I just wasn't one of them. Thanks!
Mark, I have a wide Chameleon, which is 68" vs the standard Chameleon at 58" and your Sparrow at 62". Do you think the wider Chameleon would have improved the comfort for you guys when in comparison with the Sparrow? In addition to the wide Chameleon I own a Dream Hammock Freebird when I want to go light and bugs are not a significant issue.
taedawood Honestly, I have tried the wide Chameleon, and I have other wider hammocks, and I’ve found for me the optimal width is about 60-62 inches. More than that and it’s just excess loose fabric. But it varies for everyone.
Great vid I find it very interesting if remember correctly the bb is the most costly hammock which to be honest I haven't looked recently at hammocks going off memory from looking when I made my purchase , been thinking about that sidecar for my cham , so now I know to ask dutch if I can get it about 12 inches deep instead of the current configuration thanks again for all the time you put in
I am going to talk with Dutch and see if he might revise it, or offer two different version. One for us guys with shorter arms!
There are more expensive hammocks than the BB XLC. Some Clarks and Dream Hammocks. At Dream Hammock they have the most choices and some choices cost extra money. I love my 3793-Sparrow ;)
@@SpiguyverBackpacking1 I have the WBBB. The deph of the sidecar needs to be much more shallow.
@@Macdivers1 Yeah, I agree, which is why they came out with the side sling (I believe that's what it's called), it's longer and more shallow. Works much better. Thanks!
I have only one question. New order time.would you go through dutch, dream hammock,or simply light design?what's your preference?
I am most comfortable in my Dream Hammock Sparrow.
Hi Mark,
Thanks for doing this I really appreciate it. You mentioned the Sparrow had a shorter ridgeline. What's the length of the Sparrow's ridgeline, 10 foot or 11 foot?
Thanks again,
Tony
Okay, so all of these hammocks are 11 ft hammocks. The ridgeline on both the Chameleon and Sparrow are actually the same length, however because of how the two are attached differently, it results in the Chameleon having effectively a 1.5-2 inch longer ridgeline. There are some videos on CZcams that I was pointed to by another viewer that shows the difference. Thanks!
How tall are the three of you?
Hi @@BMad-we6qf , that is a great question, because the length and width of the hammock has to match the body length. I made a list of Information Sources: bit.ly/2QOT5wM
Hi@@SpiguyverBackpacking1 , please share the url's of those videos! ;)
So you've helped me narrow it down to a Dream Hammock for my next nest purchase. But now I wonder, what's your thoughts on Sparrow vs. Darien?
I do like both of them. The Darien is in the 1.2 Robic XL and the Sparrow is in the 1.6 Hyper D. I really prefer the 1.6 Hyper D feel and support. The Darien has grown on me quite a bit, but I think of the two I prefer the Sparrow. But I will continue to use the Darien for the UL Backpacking trips, it's quite a bit lighter. Thanks!
Very helpful. Thanks. I think I would be willing to sacrifice some versatility for less weight.
Thank you for the video, what was your average distance between the trees?
Probably 15 feet or so.
Yep, I’ve not ever slept very well in my XLC
Hey, Mark great video. I'm a side sleeper that tends to switch sides a lot during the night. Have you had a chance to try the Ninox? If so how does it compare to the others.
Ron, thanks for the comment! I have a video on a prototype Ninox, but have not seen a production model in person yet. I will tell you many have mentioned how comfortable they are, however, that comes with a pretty big tradeoff. The new Ninox is heavy, and very large. The fabric stretches and so it has to be hung much higher in the trees to avoid being on the ground. A lot who got the new Ninox have not been happy and have returned it or sold it. I can't say one way or another on it, since I haven't had the chance to try it, but it hasn't had a dazzling debut like the Chameleon did.
@@SpiguyverBackpacking1 Thanks for the quick reply Mark. One more question on the left or right lay direction. Does this only affect the bug net/cover venting or does it actual change how the bottom/sides of the hammock are designed.
Ron Brill All of the major manufacturers create the asym using the top cover or bugnet shape. Both the Chameleon and Sparrow can be made with top covers that are asym or sym, using the same hammock body. Now I’m not saying there aren’t any out there that the cut of the body is asym, but not from any of the big players!
Hi - wondered how you hung the XLC? I own an XLC and Brandon from WB recently published new instructions on how to get the best hang - head end closer to the tree, foot end further away and most importantly the foot end 12 - 18" higher than the head end. I played around with these new instructions and found the XLC way more comfortable. I found the XLC comfortable before but was just missing that sweet spot - the new instructions helped get it feeling that much better. Just an FYI.
I used their videos to guide me as I was getting it set up for the first couple times. I know people love them, I just never got all that comfortable in mine. Thanks!
@@SpiguyverBackpacking1 Mark - I agree with you 100%! I really want to love it and since Brandon posted additional setup instructions (foot end higher, etc.) the XLC IS more comfortable but I can't quite get it dialed in. I have a WB Ridgerunner and it is AWESOME - very flat and comfortable lay but a bit heavy to take backpacking. I might try and lighten that up a bit. I've also ordered a new Amok Draumr XL to take boat, car, kayak, canoe camping - tried out a friends 3.0 and IT IS like a bed. For serious multi-day backpacking though I'm going to have to try out a Chameleon or Sparrow I guess. Wonder if the Wooki UQ from WB would fit either of those??
I believe so, let me check with some people. Thanks!
Yes, it will work with other hammocks, just did a quick look on Hammock Forums.
Just what I needed. Currently deciding which one I should get. Would you now pick something else or have you noticed anything with certain models after long term usage?
Of these three, the Sparrow then Chameleon. There are some other ones out there, but these are still some of the best!
@@SpiguyverBackpacking1 I have just ordered a 12ft Sparrow an hour ago. Thank you for this video ir really helped me out!
Just wondering if using a WB Wooki would have helped at all with the comfort of the XLC vs using a HG UQ.
I don't know. I would love to try it. But for me the difficulty finding the right lay happened even without the UQ. I have used this hammock with the Sheltowee UQ, which is more similar to the Wookie than the ones we were using and it was still not the most comfortable lay I've had. I am going to keep playing with it and see if I can get it dialed.
never forget the rule of 3 in the wilderness...try 3 hammocks on a 3 night trip
Great rule! Thanks!
@@SpiguyverBackpacking1 Ha, I don't have that kind of money to be buying three hammocks. I have to rely on reviews. I have the WBBB and sleep like a baby.
@@Macdivers1 Haha! As long as you love it, that's what counts! Everyone has different likes and dislikes, I just tell what I feel! Thanks!
How much to do y'all guys weigh, and how tall are you? Shopping for a hammock - I'm 6'3" and 225-250#, been leaning toward double layer.. I guess the question is, do you think the comparison in this video applies if different fabrics and/or second layers were present...?
Thanks! The comparison here was with like weight fabrics so that the fabric didn't play a huge role in the comfort level. We ranged from 5'7 - 6'1 and 175 - 210 lbs.
I still love my Blackbird. But when i bought bought it, the only comparable brands were Hennessey and Warbonnet. Nothing else really existed. Because im not made of money, I'll probably just use my BB until it dies. 😂
You never hear about Hennessy hammocks anymore? The UL backpacker hammock was the first one I ever bought. It still works great!
They are a little pricey... now I remember why I started making my own!
Great vid though!
J Perry Yeah man, go with what works for you! There are still a lot of Hennessy Hammocks out there.
Have you ever used a Wooki Underquilt on the Sparrow?
Interesting that everyone thought the Sparrow was the most comfortable but nobody stated why it was more comfortable. Aren't all three of these basically the same hammock material? So, is it the way the Sparrow is cut and shaped, sewn and gathered? Or, is it something else? Can you pinpoint the reason it is more comfortable than the other two?? Going on Hammockgear's site, one can see that it is not an inexpensive hammock, by any means. My build preference would cost me around $240.00, a lot of money for any hammock. Good video and I am considering the Sparrow based on this video.
Mike Kovitch I was never able to really get comfortable in the Warbird XLC. The Chameleon and Sparrow are so close. The cut is different, as is the sag (ridgeline length). The Sparrow has a much deeper sag, which gives you a very nice sweet spot! Hope this helps!
@@SpiguyverBackpacking1 Thks for the input Mark. Very interesting. I just ordered a Hammockgear journey tarp during a sale they had a few days ago and am considering their Sparrow hammock, as well, based on your videos and commentary of same. Also, just ordered some more Dutchware hookworms to rig out the Journey when I receive it, also based on my usage of same on another tarp after watching your Dutchware gear video a yr or so ago. Liked your recommended Dutchware and shock cord tarp set up so much that I now want to do the same on my Journey. Man, your videos are a cut above with real world practical use covering whatever subject matter you are presenting at the time. Love the way you think your skill set through before your presentation, then proceed to show us how it's done, like the simple but effective way you show how to secure the doors on a tarp, tied back on the underside of the tarp so they are accessible for closing in the event of inclement weather. I employed that technique on my last camping trip during a downpour. Man, was I ever glad I had watched your video on this technique. Saved my butt, which stayed dry I might add. LOL!
The Sparrow is by Dream Hammock, not Hammock Gear. Just want to make sure you're getting the right thing, the real deal! Glad the videos I make have been helpful! I'm very happy to hear that! Thanks!
@@SpiguyverBackpacking1 Thks and you are right. Sometimes, as we get older, CRS sets in.
I read that you got your sparrow with a little more width. Do you think that mattered in how comfortable you found it vs the chameleon? 55 vs 62 inches IIRC. (Ah you did mention the width)
What fabric do you have on the Chameleon and Sparrow?
I believe the Chameleon is 58 and I go the Sparrow in the 62. My Darien is a little wider at 64-65, and I don't think the extra width adds anything. For me the length is so much more important than the width.
Spiguyver Backpacking excellent. Thank you. I’ll probably go with the normal width then. Save a little money and weight too.
Anytime!
What kind of phone clip or mount are you guys using in your hammock?
Hangtime hook!
How did you find the different fabrics and their ‘feel’?
Michael Foster-Brown The HyperD is one of my favorite fabrics available. Such a silky smooth feel. The Hexon and nylon used by Warbonnet are both great as well. No issues with the fabric or the feel in my opinion.
You do know that Dream Hammock has lots of adds like zippered/unzippererd pouches and extra storage options?
I do know! I have several of their options on my other hammocks. Thanks!
What is your say between the warbonnet and the sierra madre ?
I don't recommend Sierra Madre.
Still pickin' your brain. You're going on a 5 night backpacking trip. Which would you rather carry/use? A 1.7 wide Darian at 19.55 oz, or a 1.6 wide Chameleon at 21.4 oz? Thanks for your time, info, expertise and patience.
Depends on the trip! Depends on the time of year. Winter or a more leisurely enjoyable trip, the Chameleon likely, for a quicker, higher mileage trip, the Darien. But either would work in the place of the other at any point!
Spiguyver Backpacking That’s kind of what I thought, but it helps to get confirmation. At this point I think I’ll get the chameleon body then add once I figure
Stuff out I’ll add to it. Again, thanks for the help.
I would have liked more details as to why the XLC came in so far behind the other two. Was it the foot box, was it the width or length, was it the fabric?
Seems like the ratings could have been better qualified with more specifics...
It was very subjective, which is why I wanted to have 3 of us doing it and not just me giving my opinion. I can't point out exactly what it is about the XLC that doesn't feel quite right to me, I just have a hard time finding the sweet spot and being comfortable.
I can say for me, it was just that I had to work to get a good lay in it. Every time I moved in the night it woke me up and I had to actively try to find the sweet spot again. That was not the case with the chameleon and the sparrow. I could get comfortable in it, but it did require effort. Also, I do like the outer d rings on the other 2 hammocks for clipping my underquilt to, the war bonnet did not have those.
When I set up my dream hammock in the house just to do some testing... I'll lay in it for less than 2 minutes and I'm asleep. that should tell you something
Says something for sure!
nice review. What about ENO hammocks?
Eno hammocks are not in the same league as any of these. They are mass produced, don't have a Ridgeline, are of inferior fabrics, and are of dimensions not really suited for sleeping. They are great for lounging though! Thanks!
@@SpiguyverBackpacking1 Thanks for reply. But i think you miss something. Look at ENO JungleNest Hammock with ridgeline, nylon 40D, Integrated bug net, 10 ft. hammock body length. 570 g weight. It seems that it can be a full access to the league of the tracking hammocks.
Kirill T Looks like you’re right. I had not seen the new version of the Junglenest, only the older version where the net attached to an outside line run above the hammock. I’ll admit this looks like a decent entry into a camping hammock, but still slightly shorter than the standard. However just 5-6 years ago 10’ was the standard and many still enjoy that length. Thanks for keeping me honest!
Yup Dream Hammock is in my future.
Just do it! You won't regret it, but I think I did just see a sale coming for Black Friday!
Spiguyver Backpacking I’m probably going to get a Freebird , because I want a free floating bug net.
@@Hotled1944 Not a bad way to go about it. This does give you a little more freedom of movement inside too.
Spiguyver Backpacking ya it’s my first hammock. I’m disabled and a veteran and I want to watch my pennies lol.
@@Hotled1944 Thank you for your service! I don't think you'll be disappointed at all.
Where can I get one of those Spiguyver shirts!
haha!Thanks!
Are there any budget lightweight hammocks that you'd recommend as an alternative to these? Considering trying out some cheaper options for local camping.
There are some great budget ones out there. Take a look at Cedar Ridge Outdoors, they have some good ones. If you need a bugnet, look at something like the Halfwit or the Half Zip from Dutchware Gear.
What widths were the Sparrow and Chameleon?
Chameleon is the standard, which is 58 inches, and the Sparrow is 60 or 62 inches, I can't recall. Thanks!
That’s it! I’m buying a dream hammock! 😂
Exactly!
And did you buy one? which number?
great but... what works for you is very difficult for us who can't try multiple hammocks.
True, that's why I tell you my thoughts and get input from others as well!
How wide was the Sparrow used in this comparison video? I assume it was an 11ft. hammock?
The Sparrow was done in a 62" width. All three hammocks were 11ft long. Thanks!
@@SpiguyverBackpacking1 Thanks, ln and width was what I needed to know. I can understand why there is a problem with the vent. We can thank our lucky stars that hammock manufacturers are not involved in the manuf. of straws.
Do any of you guys sleep on your side?
I do about 1/3 of the time. I think it depends on how tired I am, after a really tough day of hiking I end up sleeping on my back, but some nights I find myself on my side. Thanks!
What width on your Sparrow?
I don't recall, probably 58-60 inches.
It’s a Hangtime Hook! dutchwaregear.com/product/hangtime-hook/
And it rocks!
What are your thoughts on asymmetryo vs symmetrical thank you
If you know which way you lay, and that's the only way you lay, go asymmetrical, if you don't know, you flip flop, or you think you may let others try it or borrow it, go with symmetrical.
What are the width measurements of the Sparrow and Chameleon hammocks?
They are both 11' hammocks, the Sparrow was custom made for me in 62" width and the Chameleon is standard at 58", I believe, you can check their websites for more specifics. Thanks!
why do you call yourself spiguyver
The Elusive Woodland Hobo That was the trail name I was given about 12 years ago. It is a combination of Spider and McGuyver.
cool...thanks, I figured it was a trail name or you tinkered on stuff with both arms hands and feet lol ....thanks for the great vids and god bless
Anytime! Have a great one!